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| 03:01.56 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | "firmware" see ~lf (or ~tabletsdev ~combined ~emmc ~flasher) sdk: ~sb | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |
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| 05:24.03 | Vajb | what is the editor of choice if you use linux for coding? Vim? |
| 05:25.09 | Vajb | in windows I've been using Eclipse and VS code, but now I installed Devuan ascii to another laptop and thought to try it out |
| 05:30.30 | KotCzarny | mcedit |
| 05:30.31 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 05:30.37 | felangga | @Vajb I always use atom :) |
| 05:30.59 | felangga | but it's bit heavy |
| 05:31.10 | KotCzarny | mcedit is included 'for free' with mc |
| 05:31.14 | felangga | another choice is sublime, but it not free |
| 05:35.18 | Vajb | mc is midnight commander? |
| 05:35.22 | KotCzarny | yup |
| 05:35.52 | KotCzarny | it is very flexible |
| 05:36.07 | KotCzarny | you can customize menu to have few handy actions available |
| 05:36.38 | KotCzarny | ie. diffing files of choice, calling help, syncing files whatever one could need |
| 05:37.58 | KotCzarny | but if you are used to some IDE (ie. eclipse), you might find it lacking autocompleting functions |
| 05:38.32 | KotCzarny | bbl |
| 05:41.12 | Vajb | im not sure yet which one like more. Notepad++ or some IDE. Both have their moments |
| 05:41.55 | Vajb | and i rather use light software, because my laptop is not newest model |
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| 06:30.27 | Maxdamantus | works as a mostly-Java programmer and practically always uses vim. |
| 06:31.03 | Maxdamantus | Though I normally have eclipse open for some static analysis tasks, and automatically adding imports. |
| 06:32.01 | Oksana | usually uses vim, but dislikes vim's heavy documentation on Maemo 5 - takes up space, I think... |
| 06:32.25 | Maxdamantus | has maemo all on eMMC so doesn't care about such things. |
| 06:33.08 | Maxdamantus | The main issue I have on maemo though is that my terminal seems to exit if I press escape too quickly, which happens frequently in vim. |
| 06:33.14 | Maxdamantus | (so I intentionally slow my input down) |
| 06:33.53 | Maxdamantus | hasn't got around to figuring out why that happens. |
| 06:37.02 | Oksana | Does pressing escape in terminal, without vim, make terminal exit? Not for me, how about you? |
| 06:37.36 | Maxdamantus | Holding it down does. |
| 06:37.51 | Maxdamantus | It doesn't exit if I just press it once. |
| 06:38.02 | Oksana | tries to reproduce: X Term, vim .zebra.log, Esc-Esc-Esc-Esc..., nothing happens |
| 06:38.27 | Oksana | Do you have escape mapped to hardware keyboard? Because I am just pressing Esc on touchscreen, in X Term |
| 06:38.27 | Maxdamantus | Are you pressing a key, or the button on the screen? |
| 06:38.34 | Maxdamantus | Yes, mapped to a key. |
| 06:38.55 | Maxdamantus | I don't think it happens if I touch the button rapidly. |
| 06:39.28 | Oksana | Does it happen on your desktop, if you open Terminal and hold down Escape on keyboard? |
| 06:39.38 | Maxdamantus | Actually, I figured out a while ago that it happens to some other applications too. |
| 06:39.58 | Maxdamantus | So it'll be the WM that does it, not the terminal itself. |
| 06:40.07 | Oksana | As in, is it intended functionality of X Term, or is it a bug, or is it feature of window manager? |
| 06:40.12 | Maxdamantus | or else some library in Maemo or something. |
| 06:40.28 | Maxdamantus | It happens to Opera too. |
| 06:40.45 | Maxdamantus | and the "Settings" dialogue. |
| 06:41.00 | Maxdamantus | but iirc it doesn't happen to things like gvim or urxvt. |
| 06:41.15 | Maxdamantus | So maybe it's something in Maemo's libgtk or something. |
| 06:41.42 | Oksana | Gvim is open-source, right? Should be possible to look into what they are doing with their window, to make it Esc-proof? |
| 06:42.18 | Oksana | Compare it side-by-side with something else that does close when Esc is held down. |
| 06:43.20 | Maxdamantus | Doesn't happen to the xterm in debian either. |
| 06:43.42 | Maxdamantus | So I don't think there's anything that makes it "esc-proof" .. I think the maemo programs just decide to exit under those circumstances for some reason. |
| 06:45.07 | Oksana | But X Term in Maemo isn't exactly the same as X Term in Debian, right? So, there may be window flags involved, similarly to rotate-or-not flags. |
| 06:47.10 | Maxdamantus | I remember running xterm under some X11 tracing program a while ago and I don't think I could see anything odd happening there, except for the application destroying its window. |
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| 06:55.45 | Juesto | Oksana: Xterm in x11 is way different than osso-xterm, yes |
| 06:56.19 | Juesto | Esc should work for closing? |
| 06:57.04 | Juesto | Oksana: you can just delete vim manpages i guess :) |
| 06:57.42 | Juesto | i use: |
| 06:57.53 | Juesto | Windows: notepad++ |
| 06:58.07 | Juesto | Mac: TextWrangler |
| 06:58.44 | Juesto | Linux: gnome 2 gedit/mate's pluma or xfce mousepad or leafpad |
| 06:59.07 | Juesto | *nix/posix cli: nano |
| 06:59.39 | Juesto | gnome 3 is way too bloated |
| 07:01.44 | Oksana | agrees about Gnome 3, though didn't use it much if at all |
| 07:08.46 | Juesto | gtk3 mainly |
| 07:08.58 | Juesto | mate or xfce are better choices |
| 07:09.13 | Juesto | lxde is outdated |
| 07:12.33 | Juesto | how it's going Oksana? |
| 07:14.12 | Oksana | Lots of things to do. |
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| 11:49.06 | Vajb | oh yes i forgot gedit |
| 11:52.38 | sixwheeledbeast | Vajb: I use vi for terminal or Pluma which is MATE's fork of gedit. |
| 11:55.38 | sixwheeledbeast | I don't seem to get on with nano which seems to be a default option on some distros. |
| 12:03.15 | Vajb | i use nano for system tweaks only |
| 12:03.39 | Vajb | just tried pluma coz it was installed by default |
| 12:03.50 | Vajb | it misses one feature that i like |
| 12:04.07 | Vajb | doubling brackets and quotes etc |
| 12:04.35 | KotCzarny | mcedit highlights brackets |
| 12:05.19 | sixwheeledbeast | doubling brackets? |
| 12:05.39 | Maxdamantus | Presumably inserting ')' after typing '(' |
| 12:06.07 | Maxdamantus | and hoping that you don't move the cursor before you actually type the ')' or something, dunno. |
| 12:06.21 | Maxdamantus | has always found that annoying in editors that have it. |
| 12:06.31 | Maxdamantus | also struggles to see the practical use. |
| 12:06.32 | KotCzarny | +1 |
| 12:06.46 | KotCzarny | highlighting is ok tho |
| 12:07.02 | KotCzarny | helps finding bigger scopes easily |
| 12:07.09 | Maxdamantus | Yeah, even vim highlights. |
| 12:07.23 | Vajb | yeah, what Maxdamantus said |
| 12:07.52 | Vajb | helps keeping things organized for me |
| 12:08.55 | sixwheeledbeast | I don't want to have things inserted for me, it does highlight the appropriate brackets if you are on that line |
| 12:09.30 | Vajb | yeah i saw highlighting it is good feature too |
| 12:09.59 | Maxdamantus | '%' is one of my main navigation features in vim. |
| 12:10.09 | Maxdamantus | (jump to corresponding bracket/brace) |
| 12:10.24 | KotCzarny | yup, same for mcedit |
| 12:10.47 | Vajb | vim seems like overly complicated |
| 12:11.19 | sixwheeledbeast | You may find a plugin that adds auto bracket closure for pluma. |
| 12:11.25 | Vajb | i can't help but think that it was designed for very specific keyboardlayout |
| 12:11.56 | Maxdamantus | I really feel that it's the opposite WRT layout. |
| 12:12.04 | Vajb | i use finnish keyboard so things are not that convenient to get |
| 12:12.13 | Maxdamantus | vim works really well even on N900 (disregarding my escape issue I mentioned that I have) |
| 12:12.21 | Maxdamantus | because it *doesn't* assume things about the keyboard. |
| 12:12.40 | Maxdamantus | eg, vim doesn't require combinations involving things like alt/meta, ctrl, etc |
| 12:12.43 | KotCzarny | in mcedit it's alt-b (going to matching bracket) |
| 12:12.48 | Maxdamantus | ^ |
| 12:13.03 | Maxdamantus | Pretty much every other editing system does assume those tricky combinations. |
| 12:13.28 | KotCzarny | simply because there are many functions and only so many keys |
| 12:13.31 | Maxdamantus | I use Dvorak, and have not done any remapping in vim. |
| 12:13.45 | Vajb | i need combination for each and every type of bracket for example |
| 12:13.47 | KotCzarny | gtk has one nice feature of being able to remap bindings |
| 12:14.36 | KotCzarny | but in mcedit you have menu available on click as a secondary way of accessing it |
| 12:14.39 | Vajb | should invest on learning keyboard shortcuts... |
| 12:14.54 | KotCzarny | although, as i've said, highlighting is enough |
| 12:15.38 | Vajb | hehe i can imagine you thoughts of some of the ide's i've tried |
| 12:15.40 | Maxdamantus | I feel like if one were to actually invest in learning shortcuts, might as well just invest in learning vim navigation. |
| 12:15.52 | Vajb | they can insert even methods for you |
| 12:16.01 | Maxdamantus | since probably all popular editors have plugins for vim-style input. |
| 12:16.24 | KotCzarny | learning shortcuts is only worthwhile for things you actually use/need |
| 12:16.28 | KotCzarny | ie. undo/redo |
| 12:16.39 | KotCzarny | and maybe save/save as |
| 12:16.53 | sixwheeledbeast | I like using Alt to shift lines about in pluma |
| 12:17.14 | Vajb | just today i learned very convenient shortcut for web browsing alt+left arrow |
| 12:17.16 | KotCzarny | mark/move block |
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| 19:38.29 | Creteil | Hi all |
| 19:38.47 | Creteil | What is the problem ? : Sorry, it seems that you are using an IP address or a proxy that is listed in the forum anti spam blacklist. |
| 19:38.48 | Creteil | Feel free to contact our staff on irc freenode #maemo channel. |
| 19:39.22 | KotCzarny | ~unbanip |
| 19:39.22 | infobot | rumour has it, unbanip is please contact techstaff <at> maemo <dot> org with your request, or see ~techstaff, or see https://www.stopforumspam.com/removal, or if your ip is dynamic, try changing it, or tags: RBL, tmo IP blocked, spam |
| 19:40.19 | Creteil | I don't see the fact that my IP (fixed) used for spamming the Maemo forum... |
| 19:41.09 | Creteil | It apear suddenly when I was reading a thread and clicking on next page the message occur. |
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| 21:07.42 | jayspeer | hello! new n900 owner and I have problem trying to install emacs from extras-devel. It says I'm missing libxpm4 but I simply can't figure out how to install it... |
| 21:08.02 | KotCzarny | is it in repos? |
| 21:08.22 | jayspeer | it's in here http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/libx/libxpm/ |
| 21:10.08 | KotCzarny | maybe it's sdk's repo |
| 21:10.30 | KotCzarny | ~maemo-repos |
| 21:10.30 | infobot | it has been said that maemo-repos is http://wiki.maemo.org/Repository#List_of_Maemo_repositories |
| 21:11.04 | jayspeer | there are both packages for i386 and armel there |
| 21:12.23 | KotCzarny | libxpm4 is in nokia's repos |
| 21:12.31 | KotCzarny | you should probably add missing mirrors |
| 21:12.39 | KotCzarny | (as nokia is no more) |
| 21:12.47 | KotCzarny | see the link bot has said |
| 21:12.50 | jayspeer | R.I.P. |
| 21:13.31 | KotCzarny | you can add them either via manual add in app manager or via clicky .install file on that page |
| 21:13.53 | KotCzarny | choose muarf one, linenoise seems to be down |
| 21:14.23 | jayspeer | can I just add them in /etc/apt/sources.list and install via apt-get? or do I have to use app manager? |
| 21:14.36 | KotCzarny | app manager overwrites sources.list |
| 21:14.52 | KotCzarny | so while it would work, it will be gone one next app manager run |
| 21:14.57 | KotCzarny | i think |
| 21:15.08 | jayspeer | ok, dziÄki za pomoc :^) |
| 21:15.13 | KotCzarny | also, since you are new, never ever do apt-get upgrade on maemo |
| 21:15.24 | jayspeer | why is that? |
| 21:15.40 | KotCzarny | nokia chose to manage updates in special way |
| 21:15.59 | jayspeer | and if I already did that (like several times) |
| 21:16.02 | KotCzarny | which means they should be done via app manager, otherwise there might be some breakage |
| 21:16.11 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 21:16.32 | KotCzarny | new device, doing bad things is a good way to learn |
| 21:17.01 | jayspeer | I was looking for pocket linux for a while now. Maybe I'll switch to pmOS |
| 21:17.15 | KotCzarny | anyway, you can add the muarf mirrors manually and do apt magic if you like |
| 21:17.44 | jayspeer | I should propably disable app manager then if I am not mistaken |
| 21:17.52 | KotCzarny | nah |
| 21:18.01 | KotCzarny | just be aware what i've said |
| 21:18.08 | KotCzarny | as long it works, dont worry |
| 21:18.22 | jayspeer | I'll give a message when it stops :p |
| 21:19.33 | KotCzarny | also, the usual new-maemo-user package (just for information): |
| 21:19.37 | KotCzarny | ~flashing |
| 21:19.37 | infobot | it has been said that maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware, or - on linux PC - download&extract http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz, cd into it, do sudo ./flash-it-all.sh; or see ~flashing-cmdline, or see ~lazyflashing |
| 21:19.41 | KotCzarny | ~cssu |
| 21:19.42 | infobot | cssu is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU, or (Community Seamless Software Update) |
| 21:20.22 | KotCzarny | and of course make sure you add talk.maemo.org and wiki.maemo.org to your bookmarks |
| 21:21.12 | jayspeer | Will do! thanks again |
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| 21:26.14 | sicelo | jayspeer: you might also want to look at ameo Leste |
| 21:26.14 | sicelo | *Maemo Leste, rather |
| 21:27.08 | jayspeer | looked at it. I need phone calls for another month or two. when it's no longer the case i'm diving into postmarketOS |
| 21:29.52 | jayspeer | if anyone is interested https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Nokia_N900 |
| 22:00.21 | luke-jr | good to see my old gps2/3 code getting used :D |
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| 22:04.48 | sicelo | :) |
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