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| 00:22.19 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | "firmware" see ~lf (or ~tabletsdev ~combined ~emmc ~flasher) sdk: ~sb | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |
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| 01:47.26 | Wikiwide | And well-written app with plug-ins means that everything is sand-boxed. A plug-in doesn't do anything without user's informed permission. Cannot do anything. |
| 01:58.20 | Maxdamantus | I think a well-written system will have the dependencies inverted compared to that. |
| 01:58.44 | Maxdamantus | So the camera UI would be a service that an application like mbarcode can invoke. |
| 01:58.59 | Maxdamantus | Instead of the camera UI being able to invoke some mbarcode plugin. |
| 02:00.18 | Wikiwide | Good point. |
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| 02:26.13 | flashpoint | is there anything like audacity for the n900 |
| 02:26.30 | flashpoint | where can I search for software |
| 02:27.02 | flashpoint | what's the latest version of maemo for the n900 |
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| 02:55.40 | Maxdamantus | flashpoint: I think oscp is meant to be something like that. |
| 02:56.13 | Maxdamantus | (developed by KotCzarny; I haven't used it though, so not familiar .. I use mpd and qmpc) |
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| 03:26.56 | Wikiwide | App manager, faster app manager, apt-get, aptitude and http://maemo.org/packages all allow to search for software |
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| 03:42.36 | Wikiwide | Hellmann's chocolate cake recipe smells wonderful, by the way. Despite mayonnaise being best before 7th of May 2018, the unopened packaging preserved it well. |
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| 07:02.13 | KotCzarny | chocolate cake with mayo? o.O |
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| 07:13.10 | brolin_empey | I thought it would be neat to write a program (for Android because that is what I currently use but I guess it could be done for Maemo too) that checks every time the current cell (in the cellular network) changes to see if the user has entered their home/work/school/whatever cell, then either asks the user if they want to try connecting to the Wireless LAN at home/work/school/whatever or automatically tries to connect to the Wireless LAN at said site. |
| 07:13.11 | brolin_empey | Assuming that the user always or usually has the celluar modem enabled, this has the benefit of not putting an additional load on the battery by using the satellite navigation receiver and minimises the ability of the user to be tracked by their Wireless LAN MAC address by someone monitoring Wireless LAN traffic. As far as I know, the usual way a mobile operating system is able to automatically connect to known Wireless LANs is by periodically performing a |
| 07:13.11 | brolin_empey | site survey to check if any of the known Wireless LANs to which the user wants to automatically connect are visible but this has the disadvantages of increased load on the battery and apparently the ability of someone monitoring Wireless LAN traffic to see the names (SSIDs) of the Wireless LANs to which the user wants to automatically connect and also to track the user by their Wireless LAN MAC address. |
| 07:14.43 | brolin_empey | Possibly s/minimises/reduces/ . |
| 07:17.33 | brolin_empey | Actually, it seems that at least on Android OS 4.x, the mobile OS periodically tries to connect to a Wireless LAN (associate with an AP in infrastructure mode, I guess) with the name (SSID) of the Wireless LAN to which the user wants to automatically connect. |
| 07:21.29 | brolin_empey | In 2015, I attended an event (not actually a technology event) where someone had airsnort or airsnort-ng or something similarly named running on a notebook computer monitoring Wireless LAN traffic that saw my handheld computer running Android OS 4.2 or 4.4 automatically trying to connect to my Wireless LAN at home and automatically created a fake/spoof Access Point with the same name (SSID). My handheld computer seemed to not be fooled into connecting to |
| 07:21.29 | brolin_empey | the fake Wireless LAN, though, presumably because of the authentication (WPA2 PSK). |
| 07:29.34 | brolin_empey | My program idea also assumes that the user has cellular service or at least has a SIM that works for emergency calls (if that will suffice to get the numeric identifier of the current cell) and assumes that the user has cellular coverage at the sites of interest and assumes that the size of the cells covering the sites of interest are not too large. Oh, and it assumes that the home of the user is covered by a different cell than the work/school/whatever of |
| 07:29.34 | brolin_empey | the user. |
| 07:30.57 | brolin_empey | Well, more generally it assumes that each of the sites of interest is covered by a cell with a unique identifer. |
| 07:49.22 | Vajb | interesting read. My latest achievement was to hack new "message received" sound to purple :D |
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| 08:15.08 | Wikiwide | KotCzarny : yes, tastes different from our usual chocolate cakes (based on sour cream). |
| 08:16.26 | KotCzarny | Wikiwide: keep in mind, any food belonging to 'sweets' category should be avoided. they rarely provide any nutrition, only calories and hunger inducing chemicals |
| 08:16.57 | Wikiwide | brolin_emprey : it's two separate tasks. One task is add cellular towers into geolocation, another task is to trigger WiFi connections by geographical location. |
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| 08:29.05 | Wikiwide | KotCzarny : Good point. Sometimes we bake rye bread (or white bread). But chocolate cake was the only recipe that showed up on the Internet when I was looking for baking with mayonnaise. |
| 08:30.16 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 08:30.23 | Wikiwide | Apologies for interruptions. WiFi signal is weak. Is it possible that kernel settings not being loaded on Nokia N900 due to unexpected reboot are a cause? |
| 08:30.42 | KotCzarny | really, mayo was only invented to cover putrid aroma/taste of bad eggs |
| 08:32.26 | Wikiwide | Mayonnaise is ancient, going by Wikipedia. But it is well possible that combination of raw eggs and olive oil in butter produces better results than putting mayonnaise in? |
| 08:32.52 | Wikiwide | s/butter/batter/ |
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| 08:52.54 | sixwheeledbeast | brolin_empey: If you don't have any hidden SSID's on your device, you would be less identifiable. |
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| 08:55.39 | sixwheeledbeast | You are then only listening for the correct SSID to connect, instead of calling out for "HiddenSSIDfoo". Your unique list of Hidden SSID's would then make you identifiable |
| 08:58.03 | Wikiwide | Listening for SSIDs eats battery? |
| 08:58.58 | Wikiwide | That's why he would like to use low-power-consumption "connected to tower" to estimate when it would be beneficial to listen for SSIDs? |
| 08:59.00 | sixwheeledbeast | Well that is how auto-connect "check every x mins" would work |
| 08:59.48 | Wikiwide | Calling out for HiddenSSID eats battery _and_ reveals private info, yes. |
| 09:01.09 | Wikiwide | Ideally, SSID-modem would have his own smart ways to "switch on" only when there are humans inside the building/apartment, instead of being available to long-nosed sniffers 24/7. |
| 09:01.35 | Wikiwide | But that's question for modem software, not for Nokia N900. |
| 09:04.32 | sixwheeledbeast | The idea may work, however CID's cannot be guaranteed. I can have seen 3 different CID's sat in the same place for example. |
| 09:05.47 | Wikiwide | Cellular ID? Unless towers move around on vans, shouldn't there be the same ID all the time? |
| 09:06.56 | sixwheeledbeast | Also data consumes more power than wifi, I would prefer to switch modem off and leave wifi on |
| 09:07.15 | Wikiwide | UCID, right? Looking at cell tower info. |
| 09:07.28 | Wikiwide | I am expecting that data is off. |
| 09:07.42 | Wikiwide | Only basic cellular (calls, SMS) is on. |
| 09:08.08 | Wikiwide | And wifi is only available at certain places, like University or home. |
| 09:08.48 | Wikiwide | And cellular is used as fast and approximate geolocator to trigger WiFi network search. |
| 09:09.25 | Wikiwide | Dust it, MyDocs are full, again! |
| 09:09.48 | sixwheeledbeast | I am in the middle of 3 towers, depending on weather, maintenance, Dual/2G and the direction I come from. I have seen 3 different cells. |
| 09:11.33 | Wikiwide | Oh, that's fine. Is it accurate enough to differentiate between home, workplace, and a point midway between them? Or does the same tower cover all the area? |
| 09:12.55 | sixwheeledbeast | It would depend on where you are going, if the local village or pub it would be the same cell for example |
| 09:14.06 | Wikiwide | Huh, I have half an hour walking distance between home and Uni, and yet I expect different towers. |
| 09:16.18 | sixwheeledbeast | This cell is the least reliable due to being over utilised and mounted low in a electrical pylon, bad weather etc would cause you to use the next villages cell depending on which side of village you are. |
| 09:17.30 | Wikiwide | It's crowded here, so I expect cellular towers to provide more precise geolocation than in a rural area. |
| 09:24.45 | sixwheeledbeast | Another cell nearby is 3G/4G only for example. Not rural but not urban either. I would call it the English definition of Suburb (not Aussie, which is more like a neighbourhood/borough over here) |
| 10:02.40 | Wikiwide | 2G was switched off entirely here, so there is no choice - 3G always. |
| 10:09.27 | KotCzarny | did you switch radio to use 3g only? |
| 10:09.37 | KotCzarny | otherwise it also scans 2g freqs |
| 10:10.10 | Wikiwide | Should check, thank you :-) |
| 10:10.29 | KotCzarny | there is a band switch applet for systray |
| 10:14.05 | Wikiwide | Yes, but I am checking in Settings > Phone. Yes, it's 3G, not Dual, already. |
| 10:17.52 | sixwheeledbeast | There is no need for the tray applet if you have no benefit switching it on or off. |
| 10:18.23 | Wikiwide | Exactly... |
| 10:18.32 | KotCzarny | for me it's useful |
| 10:19.30 | sixwheeledbeast | I also find it useful, especially with the mast situation locally. |
| 10:20.14 | Wikiwide | Moving fritzing-data from /usr/share (rootfs?) to MyDocs is a pain. Especially when file transfer is interrupted mid-way by lack of space on MyDocs. |
| 10:21.22 | KotCzarny | use copy + remove instead of mv? |
| 10:21.46 | Wikiwide | Not all fritzing-data for now - just parts. I am wary of moving "bins" directory. |
| 10:22.02 | KotCzarny | shouldnt it be installed to /opt then? |
| 10:22.18 | Wikiwide | Nay, managed with mv x/* x, rmdir and such. Manual recursion. |
| 10:23.33 | Wikiwide | Opt could be good, but I am of opinion that databases as large as list of possible electric parts for Fritzing, or list of stars and planets for Stellarium, should be stored in MyDocs. Just like tiles for map. |
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| 10:25.00 | KotCzarny | you should probably take source package and finetune bins/data prefixes in build script |
| 10:25.15 | sixwheeledbeast | maemo-optify tool? |
| 10:25.51 | sixwheeledbeast | https://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs |
| 10:26.14 | sixwheeledbeast | also https://wiki.maemo.org/Opt_Problem |
| 10:26.14 | KotCzarny | isnt optifier for source packages anyway? |
| 10:26.32 | sixwheeledbeast | ~listkeys opt |
| 10:26.43 | Wikiwide | Fritzing parts on MyDocs is said to be 232MB. And yet, on rootfs I have only 58MB free, and 82MB available on home. So how was Fritzing-data storing its parts before I moved it to MyDocs? |
| 10:27.51 | Wikiwide | Yes, fine-tuning sounds good. In distant future. |
| 10:28.32 | Wikiwide | As in, I don't know which program is better suited for such porting - fritzing, kicad or tkgate or ... |
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| 10:29.42 | KotCzarny | maybe it was autooptified on install |
| 10:30.01 | KotCzarny | remove pkg and reinstall, then observe what is happening |
| 10:37.37 | Wikiwide | How do I know number of files in a directory? |
| 10:38.52 | Wikiwide | Because Fat32 has like 32kb minimum file size, so with large number of small files... Like, three thousand files or so... 96MB might get added? |
| 10:40.40 | KotCzarny | find . -type f|wc -l |
| 10:41.07 | KotCzarny | and if you want to find real used size (with overhead) use du |
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| 10:41.57 | Wikiwide | 3533 files, 232MB |
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| 10:46.29 | Wikiwide | / is not a link/re-direction, /usr - same, /usr/share - same, /usr/share/fritzing - same. How does auto-optification work? |
| 10:49.30 | Wikiwide | Because fritzing is from wheezy, it wasn't packaged for fremantle yet. |
| 10:50.55 | Wikiwide | /usr/share/vim is optified, for example - link is visible. |
| 10:56.23 | KotCzarny | refer to wiki pages about the topic, i havent used it |
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| 11:00.26 | KotCzarny | also, fat32 has variable block size |
| 11:00.56 | KotCzarny | unless you mean 'mydocs is vfat with 32kb block' |
| 11:01.07 | Wikiwide | /me dutifully edits /var/lib/dpkg/ to keep the package up-to-date with new locations of manually moved files |
| 11:01.37 | Wikiwide | Something like that, yes. I don't quite understand filesystems. |
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| 11:06.35 | Wikiwide | .list and .md5sums, that's it, I think, for moving a file from one location to another. |
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| 11:18.40 | Wikiwide | Tired, tired... Good night. |
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| 14:40.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | wikiwide pushing for one monolithic eierlegende-wollmilchsau app? sounds like pretty much the thing _nobody_ (but Lennart) wants |
| 14:44.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | heck, I don't want qbarcode integrated into *every* camera since I might have better use for those MB of storage and RAM in my system. Go figure some people don't need qbarcode. Some people need it but with a different or no cameraui at all. Same applies for prerry much every other "monolithic merged mega murder app" |
| 14:47.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: cell IDs are pretty much persistent. For 3G one tower may have completely different CIDs though, on segments. WLAN is a massive power hog when searching for APs |
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| 14:48.46 | flashpoint | where are the newest repositories |
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| 14:49.41 | KotCzarny | ~maemo-repos |
| 14:49.41 | infobot | rumour has it, maemo-repos is http://wiki.maemo.org/Repository#List_of_Maemo_repositories |
| 14:50.00 | flashpoint | do you use application manager |
| 14:50.30 | flashpoint | it's slow as hell, is there a faster one? |
| 14:50.42 | KotCzarny | upgrade to cssu |
| 14:50.52 | flashpoint | pretty sure I did, that was back in 2015 |
| 14:50.54 | KotCzarny | app manager got fixed there |
| 14:51.23 | flashpoint | it's cssu |
| 14:51.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>[2018-08-11 10:58:58] <Wikiwide> That's why he would like to use low-power-consumption "connected to tower" to estimate when it would be beneficial to listen for SSIDs?<< makes perfect sense |
| 14:51.48 | flashpoint | I didn't remember entire seconds going past while something opens |
| 14:52.16 | KotCzarny | use dpkg to check what is the app manager version |
| 14:52.17 | joga | a couple of weeks ago there was discussion about e-ink etc... not directly related to n900 but if someone's interested I wrote a little thing https://github.com/joukos/PaperTTY :) |
| 14:52.53 | KotCzarny | joga: cool, but why pythoooon, doh |
| 14:54.08 | flashpoint | I've forgotten how to use debian |
| 14:54.25 | flashpoint | dpkg abcdef ? |
| 14:55.25 | KotCzarny | dpkg -l|grep n-ma |
| 14:56.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | >><sixwheeledbeast> I am in the middle of 3 towers,...<< see my "GSM positioning, revisited (again)" atricles/posts on openmoko ML on that very topic |
| 14:57.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/openmoko-kernel/2008-June/002987.html |
| 14:58.31 | flashpoint | wht's the latest veresion |
| 14:58.36 | joga | KotCzarny, why not? :) |
| 14:58.49 | KotCzarny | joga: deps ;) |
| 14:59.04 | joga | target system already had it :) |
| 14:59.13 | KotCzarny | flashpoint: it's 2.2.73-2+... on mine |
| 14:59.32 | joga | (and without it I couldn't have done it in a couple of days - I have a small kid nowadays so free time isn't abundant) ;) |
| 14:59.35 | KotCzarny | joga: anyway, thanks! i might rip some parts out of it ;) |
| 14:59.49 | joga | feel free |
| 15:00.16 | flashpoint | so this is cssu like I said and it's the "latest" version |
| 15:00.39 | KotCzarny | joga: btw. did you consider doing the same for generic fb? |
| 15:01.09 | KotCzarny | i mean, using generic fb as a data source |
| 15:01.12 | joga | not at the moment, I did consider a vnc client for a while but I've no time right now for such |
| 15:01.30 | KotCzarny | and adding some param to nly update on request or some period |
| 15:01.34 | flashpoint | are you trying to get facebook working on this thing |
| 15:01.49 | KotCzarny | fb is shorthand for framebuffer |
| 15:02.07 | flashpoint | there are entire seconds between clicking on something and it happening |
| 15:02.28 | KotCzarny | flashpoint: there is a high chance your device suffers from low memory |
| 15:02.57 | flashpoint | you mean the low amount of memory that they put in it in 2009? |
| 15:03.19 | flashpoint | or is it something I can do something about |
| 15:03.19 | KotCzarny | yes, and you running lots of widgets/apps |
| 15:03.37 | flashpoint | no it's not crammed with garbage |
| 15:04.24 | flashpoint | I keep devices fairly clean |
| 15:05.37 | flashpoint | I need to update the repositories |
| 15:05.57 | KotCzarny | there was a link on the wiki page that was click-friendly |
| 15:06.18 | flashpoint | does cute tube2 still work |
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| 15:19.39 | flashpoint | which audio software is available for the n900? |
| 15:19.46 | flashpoint | KotCzarny, someone said you wrote a bunch of it |
| 15:19.50 | KotCzarny | yes |
| 15:19.58 | KotCzarny | https://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=32 |
| 15:20.03 | KotCzarny | feel free to browse |
| 15:20.10 | flashpoint | I shall! |
| 15:30.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | Oksana: wikiwde: sixwheeledbeast: (CID for determining whether to enable WLAN) it's however a short jump since maemo's location lib uses GPS, ~U-TDOA, *and* a combined augmented version of skyhook-wireless that also does exactly this: listen for nearby CIDs and use a database to find a rough estimation of location. IOW maemo's liblocation is a comprehensive superset of the CID-method sugested by you |
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| 21:43.28 | brolin_empey | flashpoint: The slow response time may be normal. I had a bad user experience, including the UI being too slow to respond, with my N900 even with CSSU so I switched to an Android smartphone in 2014. |
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| 23:50.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | you could as well just have deleted the el_v1.db eventslogger d, and keep the number of open webbrowser pages in background lower than 3 |
| 23:51.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | oooh, and tame tracker |