IRC log for #maemo on 20180715

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00:20.12*** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | "firmware" see ~lf (or ~tabletsdev ~combined ~emmc ~flasher) sdk: ~sb | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet
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06:30.08brolin_empeyHurrian: https://forums.lenovo.com/t5/ThinkCentre-A-E-M-S-Series/M57-6072-upgrade-Quad-E9400-16-GB-SSD-Gt-610-graphics-memory/td-p/3671416
06:30.08brolin_empeyHere is a user of a Lenovo LGA775 computer with Q35 who reports success with 4× 4-GiB DDR2 DIMMs = 16 GiB main memory.  They are using Kingston DIMMs, KVR800D2N6K2/8G, but this model (kit of 2× 4-GiB DIMMs) on eBay costs even more than the Hynix kit I already ordered.
06:33.26brolin_empeyWhy does Intel say that the maximum for Q35 is only 8 GiB if the actual maximum is at least 16 GiB?  Because 2 GiB was the largest capacity of DDR2 DIMM available at the time, which meant the maximum in practice at the time was only 4× 2-GiB DIMMs = 8 GiB?
06:34.58brolin_empeyMy computer with Q35 and 8 GiB of main memory already has at least 12 GiB of RAM in total because the video card has 4 GiB.
06:39.12brolin_empeyI think this type of thing has been happening for decades, like with the Apple Macintosh SE/30 from 1989 that unofficially supports up to 128 MiB of main memory using 8× 16-MiB 30-pin SIMMs that were not available when the computer was released.
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11:28.46Hurrianbrolin_empey: yep, IIRC Intel sets the max memory as the largest they've tested on the platform at time of release
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11:30.02Hurriane.g. the LGA1366 Core i7s had their max mem advertised on ARK as 24GB (6x4GB DDR3 DIMMs), but ever since the 8GB DDR3 DIMMs came out turns out those work just fine on 48GB (6x8GB DDR3)
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11:58.01brolin_empeyHurrian: LGA1366 is the socket type for the original Core i7 (960) from 2008 November?  I cannot remember all of the CPU socket types after around LGA775, partly because I still do not have a newer than LGA775 computer.
12:04.30Hurrianyep, exactly
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12:12.32brolin_empeyHurrian: OK, that makes sense but I think places that specify these maximums should explain that these maximums are only what was tested at the time of release and that the actual maximum may increase as larger capacity memory modules become available.  I seriously thought that I had to replace my Q35 motherboard to use more than 8 GiB of main memory until our discussion beginning on Friday night for me (in Metro Vancouver, Canada).
12:14.11Hurrianyeah, IIRC when it comes to hardware manufacturers, the official "maximums" they publish are only configurations they can validate and not the max theoretical
12:16.03brolin_empeyHurrian: What is the actual maximum for Q45, since that is what my computer at work (Dell OptiPlex 960 minitower with only DDR2 sockets even though the Q45 supports both DDR2 and DDR3) uses?
12:16.35Hurrianthe Q45 board I had only had 2x DDR2 slots, thanks dell for cheaping out :/
12:18.31brolin_empeyHurrian: Is there enough space on the board to have at least four DIMM sockets?  Maybe you had a SFF model with limited board space?
12:19.26Hurrianno, it was a mATX board, definitely had enough space but they cheaped out on connectors they wouldn't use, probably since DDR3 was quite expensive at the time
12:20.26brolin_empeyDoes a >4-GiB DDR2 DIMM even exist?
12:24.24HurrianOnly in FBDIMM and wacky quad rank DIMMs, which usually only work on server motherboards.
12:24.53Hurrian8GB FBDIMM and quad rank DDR2 does definitely exist, but power consumption per DIMM is through the roof
12:28.32brolin_empeyYes, I queried DuckDuckGo and found 8-GiB DDR2 FBDIMMs marketed for the Apple Mac Pro from 2008.
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12:46.55brolin_empeyHurrian: Sigh.  I wanted to ask you about a message I posted in reply to a user/customer discussion on Amazon about the Samsung NP700Z3A-S06US model of notebook computer from 2012 that my father still uses but apparently Amazon has silently removed this product from their Web site, at least from both amazon.com and amazon.ca . (fail)
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12:48.53HurrianAmazon removes products all the time though, especially when it's been years since it's been last stocked
12:52.57brolin_empeyLong story short, it sounds like this model of computer can unofficially work with at least 12 GiB of main memory (4 GiB base/fixed + 8 GiB module) even though the official maximum is only 8 GiB (4 GiB base/fixed + 4 GiB module).  I wanted to ask you which model of SODIMM we (my father or me) should buy to have at least 12 GiB of main memory.
12:56.48Hurriannot entirely sure, even though the memory controller in those models can definitely support 8GB per DIMM, I don't know the voltage of the onboard memory
12:57.28Hurriancould be 1.5V or 1.35V, but you can totally run 4+8GB RAM on it being a 2nd gen core series CPU
13:03.33brolin_empeyIf we use a DDR3L SODIMM, do we still need to know the voltage of the fixed memory?  As far as I know, DDR3L also works as DDR3 but the reverse is not true.
13:06.04brolin_empeyIs there a way I can find the voltage of the fixed memory from Windows 7 or GNU+Linux?  I have physical (video console) + SSH access to the computer.
13:06.34brolin_empeylshw?
13:07.07HurrianDDR3L can work as DDR3 only if all the modules in the system match up in voltage
13:07.51Hurrianhad some bad experiences where friends added DDR3L memory to a 1.5V DDR3 system, causing random corruption after the memory controller just used 1.35V on all modules
13:09.14brolin_empeyHurrian: Interesting.  How do you know so much about computer hardware?  Are you a hardware engineer?
13:09.44Hurrianno, I just go through a lot of hardware, it's a game I try to play
13:10.13HurrianI flip my old hardware on a local craigslist equivalent to buy second hand slightly less-old hardware, typically about 3 years old
13:10.58Hurrianyou also typically find lots more "interesting" stuff through the secondary market, like used enterprise hardware
13:11.52buZzbrolin_empey: dmidecode gets you pretty far
13:12.40buZzoh sadly , doesnt tell you mem voltages
13:13.03buZzonly the cpu's voltage
13:13.11buZz(at least on my deskxeon)
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13:36.38brolin_empeyWTF?  Apparently my Galaxy Note 3 can no longer charge from its USB connector but I know the USB connector still works because I can still access the file system on my USB SSD connected with a USB OTG adapter.
13:37.11brolin_empeyDo I have another broken battery?
13:38.19buZzor just the +5V pin isnt making connection
13:38.25buZztried cleaning it?
13:38.44buZzoh, that +5 would be powering the SSD i guess
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13:40.14brolin_empeyIt seems like the battery is broken because the status bar shows the lightning bolt on the battery meter to indicate charging but the remaining battery percentage only decreases, never increases.
13:42.08brolin_empeyWhy do I have so many battery problems with my Galaxy Note 3? :-/  The current battery may be the last of the spare batteries I have.  I have the spare batteries at home but I am currently at my office.
13:42.31brolin_empeyI can try charging from my car but I guess the result will be the same.
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13:55.19brolin_empeyHeh, apparently it can still charge from my car, using the Gomadic microUSB charger I originally bought to charge my N900.
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13:57.10bencohbrolin_empey: as buZz said, 16:38 < buZz> oh, that +5 would be powering the SSD i guess
13:58.09bencohyour usb port might not give enough power for both ssd and phone
14:00.10brolin_empeybencoh: My USB port on what?
14:01.12bencohthe one that acts as a powersource
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14:39.51brolin_empeybencoh: Apparently my Galaxy Note 3 cannot charge from my desktop computer running Windows 8 nor from any of the AC to USB power supplies/chargers I tried, including a Samsung adaptive fast charger.  I am not trying to charge/power anything else from the same AC to USB charger at the same time.  I used to be able to charge from some of these same sources.
14:43.36brolin_empeyHurrian: I used System Information Viewer (a third-party application, not something included with Windows) to get the DIMM information.  Reportedly both of the DIMMs are this model, which supports both 1.35 and 1.5 volts according to this page:
14:43.36brolin_empeyhttps://www.samsung.com/semiconductor/dram/module/M471B5273CH0-CH9/
14:46.19brolin_empeyWhat is the largest capacity of DDR3 or DDR3L SODIMM available?  At least 8 GiB but do 16 GiB and more exist?
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15:23.03brolin_empeyYes, apparently a 16-GiB DDR3L SODIMM exists: https://www.amazon.ca/Crucial-Single-PC3L-12800-Unbuffered-204-Pin/dp/B0123BRIDK
15:23.03brolin_empeyHurrian: Will this SODIMM work to have 20-GiB of main memory?
15:24.21brolin_empeyApparently my Galaxy Note 3 can charge from my desktop computer after I disconnected a Galaxy Nexus from my external but self-powered (is powered by AC adapter, not by my desktop computer) USB hub.
15:24.28buZzgalaxy note has no SODIMM slot
15:24.29buZz:)
15:24.42buZzbrolin_empey: so your USB hub doesnt support backpowering
15:24.58buZzoh wait, different device
15:26.10brolin_empeybuZz: The smartphone charging discussion is separate from the RAM discussion. :-P
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17:44.45sicelois it just me, or is gitlab.com home page title somewhat strange - "The _only_ *single* product for the complete DevOps lifecycle"
17:45.00siceloonly single seems odd to me
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17:57.43sparresicelo: I think they mean the only product that covers the complete dev-ops life-cycle.
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18:02.05siceloyes, i get what they mean. just seems an odd way to write. *shrug
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