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| 00:21.32 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | "firmware" see ~lf (or ~tabletsdev ~combined ~emmc ~flasher) sdk: ~sb | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |
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| 06:33.50 | brolin_empey | https://www.asus.com/support/PageNoServer |
| 06:33.50 | brolin_empey | Apparently Asus silently closed their VIP Forum (for use by customers, with one forum per product model) without notifying me even though I had registered and posted on this forum. :-/ |
| 06:36.04 | brolin_empey | This page uses conditional client-side scripting to load jQuery from the Asus site instead of from Google if the script runs on a .cn site due to Google being blocked by the Great Firewall of the âPeopleâs Republic of Chinaâ. |
| 06:47.54 | brolin_empey | sicelo: KotCzarny: If you have a computer that can (directly) boot from USB, you can use a USB device that emulates a bootable ODD to boot a physical computer from an optical disc image file without using a physical ODD even if GRUB cannot boot the optical disc image file. I use this product from StarTech but StarTech has discontinued this product without providing an explanation. I bought the very last of this product that Synnex had. https://www.startech |
| 06:47.54 | brolin_empey | .com/support/S2510BU3ISO |
| 06:48.29 | KotCzarny | grub can boot iso just fine |
| 06:48.45 | KotCzarny | also, his usb ports are fried |
| 06:49.32 | brolin_empey | You can buy a 32-GB 2.5-inch SATA SSD that works with this product for around $25 (USD or maybe CAD) on eBay. |
| 06:49.56 | KotCzarny | also, he is located in south africa which kills everything by shipping costs |
| 06:50.18 | KotCzarny | also, x40 uses 1.8" drives, not 2.5 |
| 06:50.52 | KotCzarny | i personally use 1.8" pata to msata adapter and use 32gb samsung card |
| 06:51.41 | KotCzarny | makes x40 fly (then bump on cpu ceiling) |
| 06:53.14 | Maxdamantus | GRUB can't boot arbitrary ISOs. |
| 06:53.36 | Maxdamantus | unless the OS is using BIOS to access the CD drive. |
| 06:54.19 | KotCzarny | maxd: if the os is only loading kernel+ramdisk it's fine |
| 06:55.37 | Maxdamantus | Depends on the system. If you're talking about some Linux install disc, those are usually produced in such a way that they are fairly agnostic about the source of the CD data. |
| 06:56.04 | KotCzarny | it was in the context of UBD or something |
| 07:16.26 | brolin_empey | KotCzarny: I just lost the long reply I was writing to you because the Quassel IRC client suddenly died because my computer ran out of memory again because I cannot have more than 8 GiB of main memory unless I upgrade from a Core 2 era (Socket T AKA LGA775 motherboard) computer. So now I have to rewrite the whole reply I was writing. Sigh. |
| 07:16.51 | KotCzarny | laughs at brolin_empey from his 1.5GB totin' x40 :P |
| 07:17.57 | KotCzarny | mumbles ..spoiledbrats.. |
| 07:18.59 | brolin_empey | KotCzarny: My Latitude X1 has 2 GiB of main memory, which is 0.5 GiB more than your ThinkPad X40. :-P |
| 07:26.52 | brolin_empey | KotCzarny: As Maxdamantus said, GRUB cannot boot all optical disc image files (.iso files). I think there used to be and maybe still is a note about this in the topic of the GRUB channel on freenode. I know that the USB ports on the ThinkPad X40 of sicelo are broken. That is why I said âIf you have a computer that can (directly) boot from USBâ. I know that sicelo lives in Africa. I know that the ThinkPad X40 uses a 1.8-inch PATA HDD/SSD because we |
| 07:26.52 | brolin_empey | have already discussed this subject. âthis productâ was in the context of the StarTech product I mentioned, not a computer that uses this StarTech product. |
| 07:30.22 | brolin_empey | Even if you can boot from a physical ODD or from an optical disc image file on an HDD, booting from a solid-state virtual ODD such as this StarTech product using an SSD instead of an HDD is probably the fastest way to boot a physical computer from an optical disc (image file) because there is no seek time. |
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| 07:57.39 | brolin_empey | I have a long weekend because of Canada Day on July 1, think I should finally buy a current x86-64 desktop computer to replace my Core 2 era desktop computer. I chose this model of motherboard months ago, maybe already at least six months ago: https://www.asus.com/ca-en/Motherboards/PRIME-B250M-C-CSM/specifications/ Other than use of a fan and the lack of support for ECC RAM, is there any reason I should not choose this model of motherboard? I guess I |
| 07:57.39 | brolin_empey | should research if there is any firmware lameness such as Secure Boot (sic) being locked on because I am used to Core 2 era and earlier computers that still use BIOS instead of EFI. |
| 08:05.22 | Maxdamantus | I'd be extremely surprised if you could buy just a motherboard that had Secure Boot locked on. |
| 08:05.55 | Maxdamantus | wonders if people even sell laptops with Secure Boot locked on. |
| 08:06.08 | Maxdamantus | ("locked on" as in no way to disable it) |
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| 11:06.19 | sicelo | yay! i got sound on the X40 again .. with alsa only. no idea where pulseaudio fails |
| 11:06.31 | KotCzarny | ~poettering |
| 11:06.31 | infobot | 'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering'', or you look here for Linus' notion on what's poettering: http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1404.0/01331.html, or http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1404.0/01488.html, or see ~systemd cabal |
| 11:06.35 | KotCzarny | here ^ |
| 11:06.36 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 11:08.24 | sicelo | well, alsa itself has been having issues. i had to `alsactl init` |
| 11:08.59 | sicelo | i'll have to get PA work at some point for those applications that hneed it, such as FF, iirc |
| 11:09.19 | Maxdamantus | uses FF without PA. |
| 11:09.19 | sicelo | i agree PA sucks, and sucks that FF should depend on it |
| 11:09.21 | KotCzarny | look for pawrapper |
| 11:09.40 | KotCzarny | apulse or something |
| 11:09.56 | KotCzarny | it allows to run apps requiring PA to run on plain alsa system |
| 11:10.25 | sicelo | i'm even more annoyed that there is so much s/w depending on network manager unnecessarily. tried to install dino-im (xmpp client) and it wanted to pull in network manager on debian. i have no need for NM as yet, so i went with gajim instead |
| 11:10.51 | Maxdamantus | doesn't think he's even using anything like pawrapper around his Firefox. |
| 11:10.59 | sicelo | <PROTECTED> |
| 11:11.11 | KotCzarny | maxd: since a few revisions ff requires pa for any audio output |
| 11:11.13 | KotCzarny | which is sad |
| 11:11.14 | sicelo | let /me actually try FF now that alsa is working (with no pulse) |
| 11:11.31 | KotCzarny | i wonder how much did they pay for that |
| 11:11.40 | Maxdamantus | Hm .. okay, maybe my version is a bit old then (58) |
| 11:12.02 | KotCzarny | maxd: might be also your distro uses own compiled version |
| 11:12.11 | KotCzarny | although then they would have to change the name |
| 11:12.31 | Maxdamantus | I'm using it through nix. |
| 11:13.28 | sicelo | FF 60.0.2 here. no sound |
| 11:14.34 | KotCzarny | they (ff) had alsa and pa in parallel for few revisions, then they've dropped alsa completely (although i think it still can be recompiled to use it) |
| 11:15.15 | KotCzarny | https://github.com/i-rinat/apulse#firefox-58-tabs-crashing-when-trying-to-play-audio |
| 11:15.17 | KotCzarny | hehe |
| 11:16.15 | Maxdamantus | the nix expression for firefox 61 still includes options around using pulse/alsa. |
| 11:16.52 | sicelo | g2g, will be back soon |
| 11:29.05 | Maxdamantus | Seems to still work in 61 |
| 11:29.24 | KotCzarny | using stock ff or something packaged? |
| 11:29.39 | Maxdamantus | Using the current build of nixpkgs master. |
| 11:29.50 | Maxdamantus | well, the build of current nixpkgs master. |
| 11:29.58 | Maxdamantus | no package overrides. |
| 11:30.49 | Maxdamantus | fwiw, NixOS itself systemd and pretty sure it normally uses pulseaudio, so it's not like it's a weird build that excludes PA. |
| 11:31.06 | Maxdamantus | NixOS itself uses systemd* |
| 11:31.12 | Maxdamantus | (I'm not using NixOS though, just nix) |
| 11:31.37 | Maxdamantus | (and I'm not running any PA server/wrapper) |
| 11:37.00 | KotCzarny | mfking debian, gtk3 tries to install systemd (along with 51 other packages) |
| 11:51.11 | sicelo | heh |
| 11:51.30 | Wizzup | KotCzarny: devuan? |
| 11:52.05 | KotCzarny | wizzup, will be probably if i get angry a bit more |
| 11:52.23 | KotCzarny | or i will just reinstall that vm with slackware |
| 11:52.32 | Wizzup | *cough* gentoo :P |
| 11:52.42 | KotCzarny | gento got 'hacked' yesterday |
| 11:52.43 | KotCzarny | :P |
| 11:53.13 | sicelo | yeah i saw some post |
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| 11:55.09 | buZz | link? :) |
| 11:55.22 | buZz | ah https://thehackernews.com/2018/06/gentoo-linux-github.html |
| 11:55.26 | Wizzup | KotCzarny: the github orga of gentoo-mirror iirc |
| 11:55.33 | Wizzup | portage is signed, so nbd |
| 11:57.46 | buZz | https://archive.is/NSKrT |
| 11:57.47 | buZz | hehe |
| 12:05.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | not that troll again :-/ |
| 12:05.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | aa maybe that troll would use the other N word |
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| 12:19.59 | Maxdamantus | 23:55 < Wizzup> portage is signed, so nbd |
| 12:20.21 | Maxdamantus | Though I doubt many people who actually use the git mirror of portage will check the signatures. |
| 12:22.24 | Maxdamantus | in fact, I don't see any tags/signatures in my clone of it. |
| 12:22.38 | Maxdamantus | (which was last updated in march, apparently) |
| 12:22.51 | Maxdamantus | has mostly preferred using nix for package management |
| 12:26.47 | Wizzup | Maxdamantus: the sw checks that afaik |
| 12:27.07 | Maxdamantus | What sw? git? |
| 12:27.17 | Wizzup | portage... |
| 12:28.19 | Maxdamantus | I'd be slightly surprised by that .. I'd've imagined the point of using git is that you don't need to have portage do the update for you. |
| 12:28.29 | Wizzup | you don't use it. |
| 12:28.31 | Wizzup | use git |
| 12:28.36 | Wizzup | you write 'emerge --sync' |
| 12:28.43 | Wizzup | or eix-sync. |
| 12:28.48 | Maxdamantus | you just do `cd /usr/portage && git fetch && git checkout remotes/origin/master` |
| 12:29.07 | Wizzup | I have never seen any guide recommending that. |
| 12:29.10 | Maxdamantus | and then `eix-sync --update` or something. |
| 12:29.12 | Wizzup | That's quite insane. |
| 12:31.40 | Maxdamantus | eix-update, rather |
| 12:32.49 | Wizzup | who told you to not just use eix-sync or emerge --sync? |
| 12:33.08 | Maxdamantus | Noone. Just logic. |
| 12:33.22 | Maxdamantus | /usr/portage just contains some files. |
| 12:33.26 | Wizzup | Ok, so you're doing it entirely wrong. Yes, then you're doing it wrong. |
| 12:33.32 | Maxdamantus | emerge reads those files. |
| 12:33.37 | Wizzup | Even still, they just did a 'git push -f'. So git would still scream. |
| 12:33.53 | Maxdamantus | Scream? |
| 12:34.06 | Wizzup | ever tried to force push and then pull from another machine? |
| 12:34.17 | Maxdamantus | 00:28:47 < Maxdamantus> you just do `cd /usr/portage && git fetch && git checkout remotes/origin/master` |
| 12:34.43 | Maxdamantus | I don't pull, but sure .. if someone is silly enough to use the `pull` functionality in git, they'll have to deal with a bunch of stupid problems. |
| 12:34.48 | Wizzup | maybe just do 'rm -rf /*' yourself if you insist on doing it wrong |
| 12:34.52 | Wizzup | out |
| 12:35.32 | Maxdamantus | Well, the mechanism I gave above doesn't have any issues with force pushes .. it'll just note that teh update was a force push when I do `git fetch` |
| 12:36.10 | Maxdamantus | Since I'm not actually developing the ebuilds, I have no reason to do something like pull/merge. |
| 12:36.22 | Maxdamantus | and again, "pull" functionality in git is very silly; noone should use it. |
| 12:37.22 | Maxdamantus | remote tracking/pull/etc is just a waste of complexity that gives no real gain over the functionality already provided by fetch/merge/checkout |
| 12:37.31 | KotCzarny | always does pulls |
| 12:38.24 | Wizzup | yep, pull --rebase and pull --ff-only ftw |
| 12:38.45 | Maxdamantus | git fetch && git rebase remotes/origin/master |
| 12:38.53 | Wizzup | which still doesn't justify not using the right tools to fetch portage. |
| 12:39.02 | Wizzup | there's a ton of ways you can fuck up anything, and you just found one of them. |
| 12:39.12 | Wizzup | I don't see how this is relevant |
| 12:39.15 | Maxdamantus | (personally, I wouldn't do both of those things in the same command .. I would fetch and see what other people have changed before considering to rebase) |
| 12:40.03 | Maxdamantus | So where does portage find these signatures in git? |
| 12:40.11 | Maxdamantus | I can't seem to find much documentation about actually using git. |
| 12:40.18 | Maxdamantus | s/much/any/ |
| 12:40.32 | Maxdamantus | just some people suggesting that it might be possible in some forums. |
| 12:40.43 | Wizzup | that's because you always use emerge --sync, and you can use git if you specify it in repos.conf |
| 12:41.10 | Wizzup | https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki//etc/portage/repos.conf sync-uri |
| 12:41.52 | Wizzup | and I checked: using git doesn't verify the sigs - there are patches for it, but it's not done by default. good that I use webrsync and rsync still :) |
| 12:42.08 | Wizzup | using a git sync-uri doesn't* |
| 12:42.34 | Maxdamantus | Well, based on what I see from march, it doesn't even have any signatures. |
| 12:43.23 | Wizzup | https://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Portage/Repository_Verification |
| 12:43.24 | Maxdamantus | My current remotes/origin/master is a017f8a1db67ba0ca7149ae957b6aa5268bd4e31 , which doesn't have a signature in the commit message, and doesn't seem to manipulate anything in the tree that looks like a signature. |
| 12:43.41 | Wizzup | The verification starts at the top-level Manifest, that is a Manifest file located in root directory of the ebuild repository. This file must contain a valid OpenPGP signature which is verified before any other file is read from the repository. If the signature passes verification, the Manifest tree is read recursively. |
| 12:43.50 | Wizzup | you're assuming that the git commits are signed instead |
| 12:44.58 | Maxdamantus | That's under rsync. |
| 12:45.14 | Maxdamantus | Seems like a weird way to deal with signatures in git. |
| 12:45.17 | Wizzup | Manifest files are just files. They are always synced. |
| 12:45.20 | Wizzup | >>>in git<<< |
| 12:45.37 | Wizzup | You're assumption that git fits everyones needs here is wrong, therefore there needs to be a solution that covers more than just git |
| 12:45.41 | Wizzup | Your* |
| 12:45.42 | Maxdamantus | since every update to the master branch would need to include an update to the "Manifest" file. |
| 12:47.06 | Wizzup | this is how manifest files in portage have worked at least 10 years |
| 12:47.08 | Wizzup | probably longer. |
| 12:50.25 | Maxdamantus | but given that the development itself seems to happen in git, presumably such Manifest files would just be generated when updating the trees from git. |
| 12:52.09 | Maxdamantus | https://gitweb.gentoo.org/repo/gentoo.git/commit/?id=8f7e30e3882709d6254b8bba8c2713700d5dcabf |
| 12:52.16 | Maxdamantus | current master |
| 12:52.34 | Maxdamantus | Doesn't involve some root signature mechanism. |
| 12:53.46 | Maxdamantus | anyway, this is all irrelevant. As we've already established, neither my way of updating portage through git nor the "actual" way (currently) involves signature verification. |
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| 14:45.01 | sicelo | what would cause my N900 to download at max 50KB/s when the network allows download speed of up to 20Mbps. |
| 14:45.14 | Wizzup | shitty wireless? |
| 14:45.22 | KotCzarny | congested ether? |
| 14:45.33 | KotCzarny | lots of retransmision? |
| 14:45.54 | KotCzarny | isp f*cking you over the oversold bandwidth? |
| 14:46.08 | Wizzup | have you ever seen the n900 do 20Mbps over wifi? |
| 14:46.25 | KotCzarny | try running ping -s8 8.8.8.8 in background to keep gsm active |
| 14:46.28 | Wizzup | I don't think I've ever seen it do more than maybe 200KB/s on wifi, even in my lan. |
| 14:46.46 | sicelo | i think problem is on N900. i don't need it to do 20Mbps, but surely 50KB/s is plain unfair :) |
| 14:46.55 | sicelo | that sucks. |
| 14:47.00 | KotCzarny | sicelo: wifi or gsm? |
| 14:47.13 | sicelo | wifi |
| 14:47.25 | KotCzarny | should go at least 10-20x faster then |
| 14:47.35 | KotCzarny | change wifi channel? |
| 14:47.36 | Wizzup | KotCzarny: I repeat my question |
| 14:48.12 | KotCzarny | wizzup: which one? |
| 14:48.26 | Wizzup | 16:46 < Wizzup> have you ever seen the n900 do 20Mbps over wifi? |
| 14:48.47 | KotCzarny | i saw 500-600kB at least |
| 14:49.10 | KotCzarny | and i suspect it might go higher with overclocked cpu |
| 15:03.16 | sicelo | i am even suspecting that gsm might be faster than wifi then .. i should buy a data package & do a speed test |
| 15:03.45 | KotCzarny | try changing channel on ap first |
| 15:04.12 | sicelo | not my ap unfortunately |
| 15:05.04 | KotCzarny | then you might be simply too far/too noisy |
| 15:06.07 | sicelo | hehe, i'm sitting in front of it |
| 15:06.24 | sicelo | guess i should just concede N900 has bad wifi |
| 15:07.03 | KotCzarny | still, shouldnt be THAT slow |
| 15:22.28 | sicelo | dumb me |
| 15:22.57 | sicelo | a quick google pointed to a response i gave someone complaining of same issue on tmo a while ago :p |
| 15:23.02 | sicelo | power savings |
| 15:23.09 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 15:23.27 | KotCzarny | i wonder if world without google would be dumber or smarter |
| 15:24.11 | sicelo | i put it on intermediate (it was on maximum bfore) and got 242kBps |
| 15:24.35 | sicelo | i'm annoyed that *I* gave the answer haha, and now i couldn't help myself |
| 15:27.32 | sicelo | 500KB/s with no power savings. |
| 15:28.14 | KotCzarny | but without ps it will eat battery really quick |
| 15:28.26 | KotCzarny | i usually leave it at intermediate |
| 15:28.39 | sicelo | yes |
| 15:32.00 | Wizzup | ah, I always have it on maximum power saving. |
| 15:32.19 | KotCzarny | max ps sucks for ssh |
| 15:32.38 | Wizzup | yes |
| 15:32.47 | Wizzup | any clue how this is changed? |
| 15:32.54 | Wizzup | wonder if I can add this to libicd-network-wpasupplicant |
| 15:33.00 | Wizzup | probably some nonstandard kernel iface? |
| 15:33.16 | KotCzarny | this meaning ps? |
| 15:33.26 | Wizzup | yep |
| 15:33.34 | KotCzarny | isnt it driver's thing? |
| 15:34.23 | sicelo | maybe iwconfig .. power saving |
| 15:35.23 | KotCzarny | powersaving is a flag exposed by nl80211 |
| 15:36.32 | Wizzup | ok |
| 15:37.41 | KotCzarny | although fremantle might've had additional code, with nl80211 you usually only turn it on and off |
| 15:39.29 | sicelo | iwconfig (now deprecated?) has levels of power saving ... in one of my scripts i have 'iwconfig wlan0 power saving 1' |
| 15:39.51 | KotCzarny | didn't know that |
| 15:43.03 | sicelo | now i wonder how to toggle fremantle's power savings automatically, instead of clicking your way into the control panel |
| 15:43.19 | KotCzarny | iwconfig? ;) |
| 15:44.04 | sicelo | :) |
| 15:49.01 | sicelo | heh, looks like it might just be toggling one power saving state anyway, but locking at different bit rates. intermediate seems locked at 6Mb/s, at least as far as iwconfig can see |
| 15:49.28 | Wizzup | hm |
| 15:49.35 | KotCzarny | would be funny |
| 15:50.39 | sicelo | anyway, maybe i'm wrong here. will test properly when i'm home & settled. |
| 15:54.14 | sicelo | ok. no, that hypothesis is wrong |
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