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| 00:19.42 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | "firmware" see ~lf (or ~tabletsdev ~combined ~emmc ~flasher) sdk: ~sb | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |
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| 00:22.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | has weird ideas for next Lasagne, weaving fabric of spaghetti |
| 00:23.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | or even basketry |
| 00:24.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | 8-D~ |
| 00:25.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, that became sth different than intended |
| 00:25.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | 8-P°~ |
| 00:26.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | now it's official: pasta time |
| 01:44.01 | Juesto | cool |
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| 06:06.01 | Oksana | sicelo : Unfortunately, my N900 doesn't have ability to connect to charger. And drains battery relatively quickly, at that - between 1 and 4 days, depending on usage. |
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| 06:27.12 | brolin_empey | Is there an x86 smartphone with an LED display instead of an LCD? Apparently the Asus ZenFone series dropped x86 before it adopted LED display. Apparently all x86 ZenFone models use an LCD. The GeeksPhone Revolution uses an LCD too. |
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| 09:24.38 | KotCzarny | https://github.com/Daniel-Abrecht/fuck_systemd |
| 09:24.39 | KotCzarny | lol |
| 09:28.12 | Juesto | xd |
| 09:29.00 | Juesto | Oksana: nice, my moto e4 plus Android 7 lasts 1-3 days |
| 09:29.15 | Juesto | with a whopping 5k mAh |
| 09:30.07 | Juesto | that's not relatively quickly compared other phones, they last way less, about 8h average |
| 09:30.57 | Juesto | a battery lasting beyond 12 hours is quite an achievement |
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| 11:06.26 | jonwil | I am very close to finding an NSS source tree that matches the NSS codebase in microb-engine. This is the first step in allowing me to bring in a newer NSS with support for TLS 1.2 (the reason I am doing this is because there really aren't any viable replacements for microb as a browser that do support TLS 1.2 and because I happen to need TLS 1.2 support for a number of web pages) |
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| 11:49.03 | Halftux | jonwil: that sounds good. I hope that you will find a way to update the NSS codebase. BTW what was the show stopper to replace openssl with 1.0.2 version? Is it possible that you could upload the parse-certdata-txt.c file? |
| 11:50.14 | jonwil | https://github.com/community-ssu/maemo-security-certman/ has all the steps to update the root CA store including parse-certdata-txt.c |
| 11:50.38 | Halftux | thats nice thank you |
| 11:51.08 | jonwil | I dont know about OpenSSL replacement, that isn't relavent for NSS and microb |
| 11:52.39 | sixwheeledbeast | I recall some ABI compatibility issue mentioned? |
| 11:53.25 | jonwil | There is no reason you can't run OpenSSL 0.98 (the current version) and a newer OpenSSL side-by-side |
| 11:53.29 | jonwil | since they have different library names |
| 11:57.42 | Halftux | hmm I tried running different libssl and linking to the new one, but I had problems accessing the certificates. I did not replaced the openssl binary. |
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| 12:34.01 | Wizzup | jonwil: in case you didn't notice there is now also maemo-security-certman with openssl 1.1 support |
| 12:34.25 | jonwil | Yeah I saw that, that's neat |
| 12:34.38 | jonwil | Although I don't have a need for it |
| 12:34.41 | Wizzup | ok |
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| 12:52.34 | jonwil | Ok so it looks like I need to pull the main mozilla-central repository (not looking forward to that given how BIG the thing is), check for the last NSS commit made to microb-engine in the mozilla-central repo (easy enough now that I know that microb-engine is using NSS_3_12_6_RTM) then starting from that revision, browse forward in the mozilla-central tree looking for any NSS related commits... |
| 12:52.35 | jonwil | ...and porting those patches to microb-engine one by one until we hit NSS 3.15.1 and the TLS 1.2 support I need |
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| 14:29.25 | jonwil | Ok I think I have identified 3 ways forward in terms of getting TLS 1.2 on Maemo Fremantle. |
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| 15:12.08 | jonwil | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=100296 has the details of the 3 options I can see as potential ways forward given that there is no existing modern-ish web browser for Fremantle and none for Leste either (meaning |
| 15:12.26 | jonwil | Not that leste is anywhere near usable as a daily driver in any case |
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| 21:48.28 | jonwil | hi |
| 21:49.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | hi |
| 22:10.32 | jonwil | Looks like there are definitely options for getting TLS 1.2 support on Maemo Fremantle for those who are interested in it :) |
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| 22:14.43 | jonwil | And for those who say "why bother", point me to an alternative,,, |
| 22:17.08 | Wizzup | I think people have, you just don't accept it as such ;) |
| 22:22.09 | jonwil | "move to a new OS" isn't an alternative since Leste has no browser and isn't ready for prime time. |
| 22:22.39 | jonwil | And I haven't seen any browser that works for Maemo Fremantle that is new enough to support what is needed |
| 22:23.26 | Wizzup | what you want requires work either way. saying that one requires work and thus is not an alternative is weird |
| 22:23.52 | Wizzup | but this argument is not productive anyway ;) |
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| 22:36.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: don't bother about efforts by others to force everybody onto a new premature platform. we seen those so many times and I recommend to ignore them |
| 22:39.16 | jonwil | My point I guess is that it will be much faster to get something new (say, a newer NSS or a newer Gecko tree or something) onto Maemo Fremantle than it will be to get Leste-on-N900 to the point where its a viable replacement with Fremantle and has a full working browser and stuff. |
| 22:39.34 | jonwil | So its an alternative on paper but not really viable right now. |
| 22:41.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | I understand that, I even wonder if that "get Leste-on-N900 to the point where its a viable replacement with Fremantle" will ever arrive. We seen exactly same rationale so many times before, like "why do you want to fix audio in fremantle? just develop your 'say who's calling' app for meego, it's the future" |
| 22:43.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | say-who's-calling works on N900, while on N9 it's ... err is N9 still a thing? And if yes, did they manage to overcome Aegis? |
| 22:44.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | arguments like "why don't you support our new project instead" always have an ugly smell |
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| 22:47.26 | jonwil | I think the big argument in favor of Leste (the one I have seen anyway) is that there are a bunch of key packages (gcc, glibc, glib, gtk, kernel and others) that simply can't be upgraded on Maemo without breaking things and a fresh start that doesn't care about ABI compatibility or the many binary blobs on the system is a better way to go vs the CSSU approach of trying to fix bugs on ancient... |
| 22:47.27 | jonwil | ...software versions. |
| 22:47.53 | jonwil | "throw everything away and start over" is never a good idea |
| 22:48.49 | jonwil | well almost never. |
| 22:58.52 | jonwil | I think the problem with Leste is that it seemed to be more about "how can we get Maemo on other hardware" rather than a proper "how can we bring the N900 up to date" plan (with the N900 just being one of a number of target platforms that ends up being supported because the right bits happen to be there) |
| 23:08.25 | Wizzup | Yes, Leste will hopefully outlive the N900. Precisely because hardware ages. |
| 23:09.43 | Wizzup | That said, it's likely the be the only real and semi-usable target for a while. ;-) |
| 23:10.07 | Wizzup | besides, lots of useful/usable stuff has been done that could also be used on fremantle if people put in the time. |
| 23:11.26 | Wizzup | DocScrutinizer05: the irony with your "it's the future" argument is that's in reality it is the exact opposite. leste is more compatible with fremantle than any other thing nokia has made after fremantle. most sw works simply by bumping the debian 'compat' file and recompiling the software. |
| 23:11.41 | jonwil | What are the plans re browser on Leste anyway? |
| 23:12.39 | Wizzup | there are several ideas, but none have seen significant effort yet because other things have higher priority. personally I'd like to see if we can take a simple webkit browser and extend it with sensible features. or take/mod jolla browser |
| 23:12.49 | Wizzup | downside is that even jolla browser is now already somewhat aged |
| 23:12.57 | Wizzup | but they might still update it to newer gecko/nss |
| 23:15.14 | Wizzup | surf (from suckless) seemed quite hackable with some useful patches around, but really, I have not looked a lot at webkit at all |
| 23:16.41 | jonwil | I wonder what version of Fennec was the one that dropped all the bits we would need and became "Mozilla for Android" (I know there is a Maemo build of Fennec 17 but beyond that I dont know) |
| 23:17.21 | Wizzup | I don't recall the version onfortunately. There was also alopex |
| 23:17.29 | Wizzup | I think freemangordon said that Jolla browser is based on version 37 or so? |
| 23:20.04 | Wizzup | I also have not tried QML Browser. Assuming that is webkit |
| 23:21.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm sorry I can't tell if the breakdown of context and meaning was with my post transferred to you or your reply transferred to me, but I can't make any sense of the response. "It's the future" was an argument a meego (Mk1) devel uttered when some maemo fremantle devel asked about how to implement stuff on N900 |
| 23:23.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | similar stuff happens every other month, it seems |
| 23:23.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's the generic "WONTFIX" reply |
| 23:27.28 | Wizzup | So if I ask how to do something in debian 3, would you think it is a weird reply to say: upgrade to devuan 8 first? |
| 23:27.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, absolutely |
| 23:28.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | in school you'd get an F for such reply |
| 23:29.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | when I ask "how to drill a hole into steel?", the reply can't be "search for wood" |
| 23:30.56 | Wizzup | I am not so sure about that school analogy. If I used a 30 year old biology book, I'd get an F. They would tell me to get a recent book, with all the fixes to the issues in the 30 year old version. |
| 23:31.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | a reply like "move to windows" wouldn't be any wors ethan the "upgrade to debian 8 first" |
| 23:32.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | when somebody asks "how to do X", the anser "you don't" is never a particularly smart one |
| 23:33.36 | Wizzup | Right, and I never said that. The only thing I remarked is the relative narrow definition of 'alternative', which annoyed me a bit. That's it. |
| 23:33.43 | Wizzup | I should get some sleep |
| 23:39.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | school: the test asks "when your pencil writes an average 4cm per word and on a one page there are 800 words to write, then after how many pages you need to sharpen your pencil when it can write a 6 meter with each sharpening", You answer "Nobody uses pencils anymore, get a ballpen instead!" - guess your rating on that test |
| 23:49.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't know, maybe nowadays this is a valid and even a good answer in school. Back in my time it wasn't, you get zero points and added bonus of public appreciation of the answer by teacher |
| 23:54.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | likewise my original argument that it's not a lehit answer to say "move to meego" when somebody asks how to implement something on maemo fremantle. Nevertheless we heard that a bazillion times |
| 23:54.20 | jonwil | "don't fix it, replace it with something new that probably isn't a direct replacement" is never a good option if fixing it is actually possible. |
| 23:55.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly |
| 23:56.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | you could dstart a debate about how much effort it is to fix the old stuff and whether or not it's worth it. But a mere '"move to Y" never is a legitimate answer to "how do I fix X" |
| 23:59.21 | jonwil | It also depends on whether "move to Y" means "move to Y" or "move to Y and do <blah>" |