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| 02:50.03 | wicket64 | DocScrutinizer05: There's no problem with dsme |
| 02:51.04 | wicket64 | Sometimes for development purposes, we don't want to start Hildon and the quickest way to do this is to disable dsme |
| 02:53.01 | wicket64 | Having said that, I do think dsme can be very aggressive as it can cause a system reboot just from the user changing runlevels |
| 02:56.45 | wicket64 | It may be desirable to replace dsme (or at least some of its funtionality) with a process supervisor like runit or s6 |
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| 03:28.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, I don't think there's anything wrong with dsme, you just need to use it correctly |
| 03:30.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | inded dsme can reboot system when a process started with dsmetoll --start-reset or --start-restart quits (too often) |
| 03:31.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed even |
| 03:32.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | the key is to use dsmetool --stop to stop the process |
| 03:32.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | and ideally you wrap that stuff into an init script |
| 03:32.37 | Maxdamantus | imo if a regular debian (or devuan) doesn't use dsme (which it obviously doesn't), a proper debian/devuan port probably shouldn't either. |
| 03:33.00 | Maxdamantus | It sounds like it deals with problems that OSes should already be solving. |
| 03:33.17 | Maxdamantus | restarting processes, running watchdogs .. this shouldn't be device-specific stuff. |
| 03:35.36 | Maxdamantus | "modern devuan with a user experience identical to Maemo 5" seems contradictory to me. If the user experience is truly identical, you should still be limited to whatever versions of software were used in that old Debian-like OS. |
| 03:35.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | unrelated: I found a few 'funny' scripts in /etc/osso-cud-scripts/ |
| 03:36.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | cud is likely Clean Up Device |
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| 04:17.40 | mike727 | I've got a Droid4 now. It's running Android 2.3.6. It's still carrier locked and unlocking it, seems difficult. Is there a lazy way to test cellular? |
| 04:24.07 | spiiroin | Maxdamantus: very roughly sysvinit+dsme = upstart = systemd; some of the things dsme does are indeed covered by more modern things, some probably are not - like having active emergency call => even thermal shutdown is not allowed |
| 04:25.00 | wicket64 | Maxdamantus: Agreed. I'd like to see (and will help with) Leste moving away from certain Maemo-isms like dsme where appropriate. The more Maemo-isms we can get rid of, the easier it will be to maintain, upgrade, etc |
| 04:25.41 | spiiroin | then those things dsme & co do, have bindings in maemo mw/ui etc -> completely replacing is a lot of work |
| 04:26.38 | wicket64 | By "user experience", I think it means UX/UI rather than software versions |
| 04:26.39 | spiiroin | already in nokia & continuing in mer/sfos -> the role of dsme is made smaller step by step as more standard ways of doing things are available and make sense |
| 04:29.15 | Maxdamantus | Yeah, and just to be clear, the thing I had in quotations wasn't an actual quote, just a sentiment I've seen before. |
| 04:29.40 | spiiroin | one problem with these old maemo services is that while they serve some generic purpose, they were forked/device -> things that should come from config files are likely to be hardcoded somewhere |
| 04:29.57 | Maxdamantus | I think it's fairly reasonable to create an OS that pretty much behaves the same way as Maemo 5 as far as a typical phone user would be concerned (assuming typical phone users would be likely to start using Maemo 5 nowadays) |
| 04:30.15 | Maxdamantus | which means they don't care about things like dsme or upstart |
| 04:32.55 | Maxdamantus | that doesn't include me though, since part of my "UX" involves editing startup scripts and configurations to get the device to behave in certain ways. |
| 04:41.37 | spiiroin | for me "behaving in certain ways" is more about low level details, like "process watchdogs" in systemd vs in dsme. former = apps decide when/how ; latter = synchronized in system wide manner |
| 04:42.08 | spiiroin | both have "a feature", but one of them is more pm & mobile friendly |
| 04:44.12 | Maxdamantus | Indeed, so the migration process should not cater to my such uses. |
| 04:44.37 | Maxdamantus | It should be free to reorganise /etc such that my alterations don't work. |
| 05:02.15 | Juesto | well |
| 05:03.03 | Juesto | Leste goal is provide a remastered fremantle |
| 05:03.13 | Juesto | a updated system while maintaining the overall user experience |
| 05:03.24 | Juesto | modernized backends |
| 05:04.06 | Juesto | while UX being the same, that is one of the reasons hildon and co got reversed |
| 05:04.46 | Juesto | it means a non-constrained community maintenance |
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| 06:30.07 | KotCzarny | Oxyd76: fix your connection |
| 06:30.15 | KotCzarny | or client |
| 06:30.17 | KotCzarny | (or both) |
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| 10:38.06 | sicelo | one of my n900 keys fell out. what type of glue is best to stick it back? |
| 10:38.21 | sicelo | glue/adhesive |
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| 11:01.30 | CatButts | my n900 has unfortunatelly gathered dust in the last month or two |
| 11:01.43 | CatButts | has anything interesting happened in this time? |
| 11:01.53 | CatButts | for maemo/the n900 |
| 11:11.25 | enyc | CatButts: yes, maemo-leste coming along |
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| 11:34.41 | pkill9 | ^ |
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