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| 01:20.45 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | "firmware" see ~lf (or ~tabletsdev ~combined ~emmc ~flasher) sdk: ~sb | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |
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| 04:06.03 | Oksanaa | It's... Debian's dependency hell. As in, if X wants to be started on start-up, then it depends on <X-init>, which is provided by either of X-systemd, X-upstart, X-openrc or whatever. Then X-openrc depends on both X and <openrc>, where <openrc> is provided by either openrc itself, or another <init>'s |
| 04:07.50 | Oksanaa | shim to handle openrc-style init scripts. |
| 04:11.15 | Juesto | Oksanaa: you're putting it in the form of freedesktop alternatives way :) |
| 04:12.41 | Oksanaa | wonders how people do it now... |
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| 04:16.24 | Juesto | Oksanaa: you can always start up X manually, and do the init's job if you wanted even |
| 04:16.29 | Maxdamantus | I'm happy not having X started by the init system, like on all my desktop/laptop machines. |
| 04:16.45 | Juesto | sometimes it's just necessary |
| 04:17.26 | Maxdamantus | just logs in through a getty-spawned login and does `exec startx`. |
| 04:17.32 | Juesto | x is started by dsme which in turn is started by the init |
| 04:17.38 | Juesto | lol |
| 04:18.11 | Juesto | there's always a odd dependency regarding display :0 |
| 04:18.20 | Maxdamantus | things like screensaver and xmonad and some environment variables are just handled by my ~/.xinitrc |
| 04:18.24 | Juesto | also don't forget display managers |
| 04:18.54 | Maxdamantus | Yeah, I don't use a display manager on any of my systems. |
| 04:19.23 | Maxdamantus | maemo doesn't use one either, unless its using one for a very strange purpose. |
| 04:19.38 | Juesto | dsme is the controller |
| 04:20.02 | Juesto | and without x there's no maemo |
| 04:20.12 | Maxdamantus | anything depending on X should be started within X. |
| 04:20.56 | Maxdamantus | maemo doesn't seem to follow that principle, judging by the fact that lots of things seem to just force the `DISPLAY` variable. |
| 04:21.18 | Juesto | yes but then it doesn't attempt to start again if X fails to start and it's later started |
| 04:21.37 | Juesto | all manual at that point |
| 04:22.04 | Juesto | it depends on a X server started on the expected display |
| 04:22.10 | Maxdamantus | when X is started again, it will again load the programs that are part of the X session. |
| 04:22.42 | Maxdamantus | that will be whatever is in ~/.xinitrc, or howerver the normal X session mechanism works. |
| 04:24.27 | Juesto | .xinitrc is first then stuff in etc/X11 |
| 04:24.33 | Juesto | don't remember |
| 04:24.55 | Maxdamantus | .xinitrc is the only thing. |
| 04:25.00 | Juesto | no it doesn't start programs like that, not without rebooting |
| 04:25.47 | Maxdamantus | Right, but it should conform to the paradigm I've described, because that's what normal Linux-based systems do. |
| 04:26.07 | Maxdamantus | The init system doesn't keep respawning your pidgin program or something. |
| 04:26.46 | Maxdamantus | You can configure gnome/kde to start it when your gnome/kde session starts. |
| 04:27.52 | Juesto | sure, for the sake of functionality when something critical fails it should be brought back up and related processes too |
| 04:28.12 | Juesto | especially when the consumer is a noob at computers |
| 04:30.37 | Maxdamantus | If you want to reload X programs on crash, imo that should still be done within X. |
| 04:31.08 | Juesto | yes and maemo doesn't do that for it's services |
| 04:31.13 | Juesto | deficiency |
| 04:31.35 | Maxdamantus | a very crude way would be to just run a script that does `while ! some-program; do sleep 5; done` |
| 04:31.40 | Juesto | lol |
| 04:37.16 | Juesto | . |
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| 10:42.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | ? |
| 10:44.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/57849888 -t --start-restart=<cmd> -c --max-count=N |
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