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| 01:10.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | or just parameter-substitute to cp |
| 01:12.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | cp -t somewhere/ $(find source/ -name '*.mp3'|sort -R) |
| 01:12.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | cave max linelen! |
| 01:20.14 | *** join/#maemo infobot (ibot@rikers.org) |
| 01:20.14 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | "firmware" see ~lf (or ~tabletsdev ~combined ~emmc ~flasher) sdk: ~sb | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |
| 01:31.25 | pkill9 | Wizzup: what interesting software and such currently works with maemo-kawaii to play with? is there a web browser that ppl can try out? I tried 'surf' since that was suggested as being default, but I find it tries to scroll and select text at the same time when using the stylus on it |
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| 03:00.15 | Oksana | What is kawaii?.. |
| 03:01.54 | Juesto | Oksana: Some form of anime thing |
| 03:02.00 | Juesto | japanese sayings |
| 03:02.06 | Juesto | is it necessary to ask it here? |
| 03:02.13 | Juesto | oh wait |
| 03:02.33 | Juesto | Oksana: Maemo-kawaii is the codename of the update or something |
| 03:02.50 | Juesto | uhh |
| 03:02.55 | Juesto | searches |
| 03:03.48 | Oksana | One: be shorter, please. Even when nobody is speaking on the channel, it's more polite to use one long line than ten short ones. Two: I have heard of maemo-lestre update, but not about maemo-kawaii? |
| 03:04.24 | Juesto | Oksana: Actually i think i am wrong, i am not sure what he refers to |
| 03:04.37 | Juesto | pkill9: what did you mean by maemo-kawaii ? |
| 03:06.05 | Oksana | And about web browsers: there are qml-browser and heliummobilebrowser available in maemo repositories, just to scratch the surface. Depends on package compatibility with maemo-kawaii, whatever that is? |
| 03:06.31 | Juesto | Oksana: please do not instantly assume it is a OS update. i said i am not sure. |
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| 03:10.32 | Juesto | so after all |
| 03:13.48 | Juesto | which maemo device i should get for the OS experience and experimenting? |
| 03:15.19 | Oksana | Okay, I see where kawaii comes from : http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1540914&postcount=16 In terms of getting a Virtualbox/VMWare image running, do a minimal Devuan install and then add a custom 'kawai' repository. (we will soon rename that to leste again...) |
| 03:17.50 | pkill9 | Juesto: here http://maedevu.maemo.org/images/ |
| 03:18.39 | Juesto | Oh, so it's the codename? |
| 03:18.42 | Juesto | of something? |
| 03:18.50 | Juesto | thanks oksana |
| 03:19.23 | Juesto | so it is the beta or alpha? |
| 03:19.24 | Oksana | thanks pkill9 :-) Readme would be nice, too, about the files |
| 03:19.34 | Oksana | pre-alpha |
| 03:20.05 | Juesto | Oksana: actually, looks like kawai is the name of the arm versions |
| 03:20.06 | pkill9 | yeah, i was a little confused too, officially it's called Maemo-leste but since the images were named maemo-kawai I thought that would be more accurate |
| 03:20.09 | Oksana | Juesto : Nokia N900, I guess. Maemo-leste is also running on Allwinner A33 tablet. Support for Motorola Droid 4, Nokia N950 and Nokia N9 may be coming soon, too. |
| 03:20.21 | Juesto | and leste is the x86 version |
| 03:20.39 | Juesto | Original maemo experience, Oksana. |
| 03:20.40 | Oksana | Juesto : link to x86 version? |
| 03:20.48 | Juesto | Not necessarily this new project |
| 03:21.00 | Juesto | Oksana: x86 is not ready yet, it seems |
| 03:21.31 | Juesto | All i see in http://maedevu.maemo.org/images are files for armel |
| 03:21.54 | Oksana | Juesto : that's why I recommend Nokia N900 [with Maemo 5]. Nokia N800, Nokia N810, and similar have Maemo 4. Nokia N9 and Nokia N950 have Maemo 6. |
| 03:22.00 | Juesto | n900 and sunxi, whatever the latter is |
| 03:22.36 | Oksana | Juesto : I think it's only intended to run on arm, or in VM. Not on x86 directly. |
| 03:23.05 | Juesto | Oksana: x86 directly is being worked on, one of them is testing on x86 AFAIK |
| 03:23.06 | Oksana | Variety of ARM devices is already a good sight to see. |
| 03:23.20 | Juesto | ah i see, armel and armhf for n900 |
| 03:23.24 | Juesto | just noticed now |
| 03:26.27 | Oksana | pkill9 : Is there a way to browse the repositories? http://maedevu.maemo.org/kawai/dists/kawai/ In distant future, something like http://maemo.org/packages/ could be connected, since kawai-leste is next step after Diablo and Fremantle. |
| 03:27.20 | Juesto | Oksana: Those repositories are browseable by standard apt manners. you can find your way through the directory pool too |
| 03:27.55 | Juesto | i dont think the current maemo is suitable for installing packages from there at all, oksana |
| 03:28.02 | Oksana | just imagines how disastrous it would be to add kawai repositories to a standard Maemo 5-running Nokia N900 |
| 03:28.56 | Oksana | Ah, pool, that's nice, thank you :-) : http://maedevu.maemo.org/kawai/pool/main/ |
| 03:29.05 | pkill9 | Oksana: I'm not sure, as far as I know Maemo-leste is based on devuan and uses those repositories, but also they're adding their own repo which consists of ported hildon software. more info is on their github |
| 03:29.12 | pkill9 | main page: https://maemo-leste.github.io/ |
| 03:29.32 | Juesto | pkill9: i assume kawai is based on leste and its a build name. probably leste is the source code or the pc version |
| 03:29.57 | pkill9 | this page seems to track what they're working on https://github.com/maemo-leste/bugtracker/issues |
| 03:30.09 | Juesto | actually the first statement is incorrect, seems kawai is a build codename for arm |
| 03:30.15 | Oksana | Just confusion with build names, because of variety of Debian's build names, such as jessie |
| 03:30.20 | pkill9 | yeah, it looks likea codename |
| 03:30.22 | Juesto | i guess |
| 03:31.19 | pkill9 | i tested it and it successfully boots into hildon and I can use terminal and install thigns from the repository |
| 03:31.38 | pkill9 | things* |
| 03:32.17 | Oksana | Nice :-) Did you find a good web browser? Is qml-browser available, for example? |
| 03:32.56 | Oksana | Also, how is hildon-theme-alpha in kawai repositories, isn't it one of Nokia's closed binaries? |
| 03:33.10 | pkill9 | the only one i tried so far is surf, i'll see if qml-browser is available |
| 03:33.25 | pkill9 | i dunno |
| 03:33.28 | Juesto | Oksana: work in maemo leste is all reversed stuff from nokia blobs, afaik |
| 03:33.37 | Juesto | for the closed parts |
| 03:35.07 | Oksana | I would hope so. But hildon-theme-alpha is mostly just images and styles, it would have worked without being reverse-engineered, so I have no idea if anybody put any effort into reverse-engineering it. |
| 03:35.16 | pkill9 | i recommend checking their page, i posted it earlier, if you didn't see it: https://maemo-leste.github.io/ |
| 03:35.40 | Oksana | will read it, thank you :-) |
| 03:36.07 | Juesto | Oksana: oh... they're resources? |
| 03:36.17 | Juesto | well, that stuff is copyrighted probably |
| 03:40.59 | Oksana | Reverse-engineering means that first, person X goes through package (such as hildon-theme-alpha) and documents things (like, what depends on the theme, which images are expected to exist in the theme, which styles are expected to exist in the theme, which class names are expected to be style-sed by |
| 03:42.09 | Oksana | In short, package being reverse-engineered should ideally be approached as black box - we know what input to feed it, and what output it will give, but we don't know what's inside it. |
| 03:42.09 | Oksana | theme), and then, person Y creates a new package, without looking at Nokia's closed package - only looking at reference documentation, such as X's notes, and existing open-source themes. |
| 03:43.15 | Juesto | Thank you for the explanation it was a little unnecessary but good for people who have no idea :) |
| 03:43.19 | Oksana | It's probably one of >> fall back to closed components temporarily while we bring up the OS << current limitations |
| 03:48.39 | Oksana | pkill9 : how is it? Since kawai repository seems to be very bare-bones at the moment (entirely understandable), devuan repositories might actually be more fruitful. |
| 03:49.56 | pkill9 | i can get everything from devuan, i just installed chromium 63 and running it, though it won't take keyboard input for some reason |
| 03:50.13 | pkill9 | can get git, python3 etc |
| 03:50.35 | pkill9 | note i can type into the terminal |
| 03:51.00 | Oksana | There was an add-on for chromium, to make scrolling on touchscreen easier, I think... |
| 03:51.13 | pkill9 | yeah there is, i remember that one |
| 03:51.26 | pkill9 | so you can 'grab' the page |
| 03:53.12 | pkill9 | anyways i gotta sleep, goodnight |
| 03:53.30 | Oksana | Nice. Good night :-) |
| 03:54.29 | Juesto | how about neo900? |
| 03:54.33 | Juesto | is it stable? |
| 03:55.17 | Oksana | Juesto : don't mix apples and oranges. |
| 03:55.25 | Juesto | Oksana: is it worth having many phones? |
| 03:55.29 | Oksana | Neo900 is hardware, device to be released. |
| 03:55.29 | Juesto | many maemo devices* |
| 03:55.59 | Juesto | Oksana: Should i get the different major devices? |
| 03:56.22 | Oksana | Juesto : better to pick which one you like more, beforehand. As in, screen size, keyboard, wireless capabilities. You aren't an octopus to use several mobile devices at the same time. |
| 03:57.20 | Juesto | Oksana: I need to research, do you know a easy site for it? i am afraid i may not get any maemo device but the n9 and n900 probably, here in mercadolibre |
| 03:57.37 | Juesto | i search maemo and it is completely random results |
| 03:57.51 | Oksana | To research... :sigh: There is Wikipedia, for instance. |
| 03:57.56 | Juesto | i get lumia stuff |
| 03:58.17 | Juesto | yes, wikipedia is okay, but for the user feedback? experience? technical specifications, features? |
| 03:58.19 | Oksana | Lumia is distracting, yes. These devices run Microsoft operating system. |
| 03:58.19 | Juesto | not sure |
| 03:58.49 | Juesto | I mean, searching is confused with lumia because it is nokia, searching maemo seems to yield no results |
| 03:58.54 | Juesto | or rather, random results |
| 03:59.27 | Oksana | Technical specifications and features are listed in Wikipedia, as well as third-party websites such as PhoneArena or something. User feedback... I think you can read talk.maemo.org to see what people say about their experience. |
| 04:01.39 | Juesto | Oksana: all i see here is battery for n900, and both battery and display replacements for n800 |
| 04:02.27 | Oksana | As long as you search for exactly +"maemo" (and not maaemo restaurant in Oslo), you get mostly results about Maemo, Nokia N900 and MeeGo (which is related to Maemo 6 running on Nokia N9) |
| 04:02.47 | Juesto | Oksana: Maemo gives random results here on mercadolibre, as i said, nothing useful |
| 04:02.55 | Juesto | I'll try adding maemo to the model number |
| 04:03.53 | Juesto | nope, it would have already showed up without maemo. Oksana, perhaps you could send me a spare of yours please? |
| 04:04.05 | Oksana | Try looking for Motorola Droid 4, rather. Nokia N900 is a rather ancient and rare to find device, especially in working condition. |
| 04:05.11 | Juesto | Oksana: XT894? with "motorola droid 4" i get a lot of moto z and moto x, motorola droid turbo came up as suggestion too. |
| 04:05.44 | Juesto | Moto Droid 2..... a guy sells it for 12k ARS |
| 04:05.55 | Oksana | XT894, yes |
| 04:06.04 | Juesto | seems to be a new phone since it mentions wireless charging |
| 04:09.06 | Oksana | Nokia N900 costs between 100$ and 300$, going by EBay. And that's pre-owned, not new. |
| 04:09.28 | Juesto | Oksana: of course, i wouldnt find new. remember i need it to ship to argentina. |
| 04:09.48 | Oksana | Yes, Motorola Droid 4 is newer, but I don't see wireless charging: https://www.gsmarena.com/motorola_droid_4_xt894-4418.php |
| 04:10.31 | Juesto | Oksana: I saw a *Moto* droid 4, apparently it is a newer model than the one you're mentioning. xt894 was offered in search suggestion |
| 04:12.11 | Oksana | No idea. http://elektranox.org/droid4/ |
| 04:12.52 | Oksana | Moto or Motorola, it's probably different names of the same model. |
| 04:13.26 | Juesto | Oksana: no, moto is a branding, motorola was company, now lenovo bought it and it is kept as branding, moto is like a brand and a line of products |
| 04:14.18 | Oksana | Either way, feel free to look at the phone you already have, and check whether it can run Linux. |
| 04:15.11 | Juesto | Oksana: Android dominates the smartphone market along with Apple iOS. i doubt i'll able to find a linux smartphone similar to maemo that isn't android.' |
| 04:15.22 | Juesto | ...nowadays |
| 04:16.08 | Oksana | points towards Sailfish OS: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sailfish_OS#Community_enthusiasts%27_ports_to_devices_from_other_vendors |
| 04:16.41 | sunshavi | Juesto: look 4 it on aliexpress.com |
| 04:16.44 | Juesto | Oksana: it is not common, as far i know. i am yet to see something like sailfish being a highlight somewhere |
| 04:17.16 | Oksana | Manufacturers don't install Sailfish by default, but it doesn't mean that user cannot do it. |
| 04:17.56 | Juesto | is it optimal for it to be installed by default, ensuring and proving maximum compatibility, oksana |
| 04:18.34 | Oksana | As you can see, the list of devices capable of running Sailfish OS is longer, _and_ it includes devices which can run Maemo-Leste: Nokia N9, Motorola Droid 4 XT894, Nokia N950. |
| 04:20.14 | Oksana | Juesto : it makes a large difference only if software and hardware use manufacturer-specific pieces. If Hardware and software use standard and fairly open approach, then everything is compatible with minimal fiddling. |
| 04:21.36 | Oksana | One of the earliest smartphones running Linux: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Motorola_A780 <-- Ancient |
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| 04:24.57 | Juesto | Oksana: Of course. usually the end user does not want to install software where it is unknown terrain for such user. on a phone where compatibility isnt known. Perhaps if the manufactured listed a compatibility table |
| 04:29.07 | Oksana | Juesto : You may find it of interest that there is LuneOS mobile operating system based on the Linux kernel https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LuneOS |
| 04:29.25 | Juesto | Oksana: Android is based on the Linux kernel too.... |
| 04:29.46 | Oksana | It is compatible with Google Galaxy Nexus and Google Nexus 4/5/7, besides other devices |
| 04:30.34 | Oksana | Juesto : LuneOS runs apps written in Qt5/QML. Maemo can also run apps written in Qt/QML. |
| 04:31.13 | Juesto | Oksana: and does maemo do qt5? |
| 04:32.07 | Oksana | More like Qt 4.7 |
| 04:32.15 | Juesto | Oksana: additionally, see your PMs please. |
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| 09:48.05 | Wizzup | parazyd: let's get the rename done soon, people are starting to call it kawaii already ;) |
| 09:48.53 | parazyd | ;) |
| 09:49.07 | parazyd | i'm building the vms now |
| 09:49.17 | parazyd | we can try renaming later today if you feel like it |
| 09:49.26 | Wizzup | 04:32 < Oksana> Also, how is hildon-theme-alpha in kawai repositories, isn't it one of Nokia's closed binaries? |
| 09:49.35 | Wizzup | Oksana: some non binary stuff we have just imported |
| 09:50.28 | Wizzup | Oksana: also, since it's hosted on *.maemo.org there should be no problem |
| 10:01.49 | enyc | Wizzup: hrrm, i'm ineterestied in this experimental devuna maemo... espcially the feasibility of going all armhf, how much will need 'replacing' to get rid of armel compenents in a usable-system...? |
| 10:04.48 | Wizzup | of everything non binary is open, then nothing |
| 10:04.50 | Wizzup | s/of/if/ |
| 10:05.27 | Wizzup | brb |
| 10:27.49 | enyc | Wizzup: yes, but, what things ary binary non-open and needed for functional core/maemo sysem ? what are the blockers and how easily are they replaced? |
| 10:28.25 | Wizzup | enyc: big one is the phone stack |
| 10:31.20 | Wizzup | enyc: there are a few other big ones, like browser |
| 10:38.15 | enyc | Wizzup: 'phone stack' includes/excludes 2g/3g data ? |
| 10:39.43 | parazyd | phone stack is actual phone calls. data already works |
| 10:40.06 | parazyd | or, should work with ofono |
| 10:40.31 | enyc | ok ... imho that can be done without at first, certainly i the way i use it but anyway =) depends on user |
| 10:40.48 | parazyd | keep in mind this will have to wait a bit, since connui is still missing |
| 10:41.10 | enyc | Wizzup: browser -- surely can get one of many firefox/chromium/whatever-basis working, no need the original maemo browser? |
| 10:41.12 | Wizzup | enyc: it depends. data works with ofono, phone calls might/should work with ofono, but then we still need UI. maemo does not use ofono for data nor for calls |
| 10:41.24 | Wizzup | enyc: right, but let's pick one that's simple and customisable |
| 10:41.57 | enyc | there were/are many gtk simpler browsers, without as MUCH custimazition but lower resource / faster, iirc |
| 10:42.13 | Wizzup | yes, surf is one possibility |
| 10:42.22 | enyc | e.g. used to be Gnome galeon , maybe an epiphany or something else i forget |
| 10:42.22 | Wizzup | but we'll need to work on scrolling and some gestures.. |
| 10:42.39 | Wizzup | we're not at the browser customisation point yet |
| 10:42.43 | Wizzup | need more core stuff first :) |
| 10:42.51 | enyc | sure! |
| 10:43.06 | enyc | yes and you need 'core' "functional" to get developers/users interested! |
| 10:43.55 | Wizzup | connui would be very nice, and some init script fixes, and then some status applets and qt are next I think |
| 10:44.13 | enyc | connui = the UI for wireless connections? |
| 10:44.36 | Wizzup | mhm |
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| 10:57.52 | sicelo | Wizzup: with ofono & maemo - perhaps the dummy-network hacks would work? |
| 10:58.14 | sicelo | or at least provide a starting point |
| 11:00.28 | Wizzup | I think pavel is already experimenting, but I am not sure what this dummy-network hack is |
| 11:03.18 | sicelo | i'm on crappy network, but it's there in wiki. it's what makes connections such as usb-networking work. i use that with wpa_supplicant on N900, because the wifi settings on n900 do not work with the enterprise wifi network at my company |
| 11:03.48 | sicelo | anyway, i'm sure pavel will find a more elgant solution :-) |
| 11:03.57 | Wizzup | on that note, we do plan to use wpa_supp as plugin for icd2 I think |
| 11:04.03 | Wizzup | but not sure how far out that is |
| 11:04.09 | Wizzup | there is so much to be done, but at least things are moving :) |
| 11:04.52 | sicelo | you're all doing amazingly good work |
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| 12:02.14 | Wizzup | Oksana: Juesto the 'kawai' repo is now renamed to 'leste' again. 'kawai' is what we use for our 'testing' repos, and as of the rename/merge/move just now, it serves no purpose, images are rebuilt |
| 12:02.31 | Wizzup | Oksana: Juesto: Just to be clear, it didn't say 'kawaii', it is not an anime reference |
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| 12:50.39 | Wizzup | pkill9: re: browser, no nothing is in place yet |
| 12:50.44 | Wizzup | pkill9: and yes, scrolling doesn't work in surf |
| 12:50.50 | pkill9 | kk |
| 12:50.56 | Wizzup | pkill9: it was just mentioned as a possible thing we could modify |
| 12:51.01 | Wizzup | but there's bigger things to tackle first |
| 12:51.08 | Wizzup | not sure if you can see the channel logs, but it'd be useful |
| 12:51.14 | pkill9 | i tried chromium and it runs and renders, but the keyboard gets sent to the terminal when you type into chormium o_O |
| 12:51.28 | Wizzup | :) not surprised |
| 12:51.31 | pkill9 | kk i'll check the channe logs |
| 12:51.32 | Wizzup | didn't try that at all |
| 12:51.41 | Wizzup | pkill9: yeah, it also answers your kawai question |
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| 15:32.15 | Juesto | thanks Wizzup, hehe |
| 15:32.38 | Juesto | i guess we figured out a bit afterwards |
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| 23:11.59 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | "firmware" see ~lf (or ~tabletsdev ~combined ~emmc ~flasher) sdk: ~sb | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |