IRC log for #maemo on 20171204

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12:33.20CatButtshey guise, what image viewers are out there for N900/Maemo?
12:34.53CatButtsI don't like default one
12:39.16KotCzarnyany linux one
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13:00.03CatButtswell, I'd have to get of me arse and get acqualinted with the SDK
13:01.31CatButts"it's as easy as typing 'make'!"
13:01.33CatButtshahahahahahaha
13:06.18CatButtsfeh is nice
13:14.16CatButtskinda
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13:17.27bencohfeh could use some n900-specific patching though
13:17.32bencohbut yeah, it's "nice" :)
13:17.46bencoh(aka fast&simple)
13:22.15CatButtssxiv is not far off
13:30.58CatButtsgpicview, couldn't find executable
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15:36.12CatButtshmmm
15:36.40CatButtsapparently, I am not allowed to make symlink to /media/mmc1/ in MyDocs
15:36.54CatButtsis it because the FAT32 FS?
15:36.56bencohMyDocs is fat
15:37.44CatButtsI have a half-arsed application that does not know what an SDCard is
15:38.22CatButtshttp://davy.preuveneers.be/phoneme/?q=node/34 this fucker, right here
15:38.54bencohwtf
15:39.18bencohanyway, you might be able to get away with mount -o bind
15:43.06CatButtsso, how do I use mount -o bind
15:43.17CatButtsor rather, what is outcome
15:43.37KotCzarny<PROTECTED>
15:43.58bencohman mount; basically it transparently remounts an already mounted fs at another mountpoint
15:44.24KotCzarnybencoh, not remounts, but duplicates on different path
15:44.27CatButts>man: no manual entry for 'mount'
15:44.39bencohCatButts: on another unix system
15:44.50bencohKotCzarny: duplicate isn't a good phrasing either
15:45.17KotCzarnyyeah, it's only mounted once, but at two places
15:45.30KotCzarnyremount would suggest previous umount
15:45.34KotCzarnyhence my comment
15:45.47*** join/#maemo auenfx8 (~David@120.154.64.171)
15:45.49CatButts>mount: can't find evertest in /etc/fstab
15:45.52CatButtstee hee
15:46.16KotCzarnycatbutts: consider linux for dummies lecture :P
15:46.31CatButtstouch cat
15:46.37CatButtscat touch
15:47.30CatButts<chocobo13> unzip; strip; touch; grep; finger; gasp; mount; fsck; yes; more; yes; umount; sleep
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15:50.26CatButtsI don't see any -o option
15:50.32CatButtsthere is -O
15:53.53CatButtsmount /dev/mmc1 /media/mmc1
15:54.04CatButtsthis would be what I have already
15:54.48CatButtswhen using the bind option, does the device or the media mount become first parameter?
15:56.09CatButtsah, it takes a directory
15:57.08pkill9lmao
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16:01.34CatButtssudo mount -O bind /media/mmc1 /home/user/MyDocs/mmc1
16:01.37CatButtsthere we go
16:01.50CatButtsthanks bencoh
16:02.04KotCzarnyyou can use any path as a source
16:02.10KotCzarnydoesnt have to be exact mount point
16:03.40CatButtss/evertest/everest
16:05.22CatButtslet's see how Storage Usage/Treesize likes the new mount point :P
16:05.42CatButtsgracefully
16:05.51CatButtstreats it as 0byte file
16:08.02CatButtss/file/folder
16:08.13CatButtsI remember this feature working before
16:08.46CatButtswas it disabled, or is it served on a whitelist?
16:09.41DocScrutinizer05I recommend against mointing sth to /home/user/MyDocs/mmc1 since /home/user/MyDocs is already a mountpoint itself
16:10.24DocScrutinizer05it "works" but has all sorts of caveats
16:11.23CatButtsyeah, none of the applications I care about work with PhoneME
16:11.33CatButtsso I can unmount and call it a day
16:11.53CatButtsbummer
16:14.03CatButtswell, at least I learned a bit more of linux console
16:15.23DocScrutinizer05if you really wanna learn about mount, see https://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-mount-namespaces/index.html
16:16.53DocScrutinizer05until then, think of bindmounts as a form of (sym)link that only lives in kernel data structures
16:23.42CatButtsa form of symlink, got it!
16:23.55CatButtsI lost you at kernel data structures :P
16:24.09CatButtsdoes it survive reboot?
16:24.13CatButtsI am guessing no
16:25.31bencohyou're guessing right
16:25.44bencohalthough you could add it to /etc/fstab
16:26.59bencoh(but I dont know when MyDocs is mounted, so this might lead to a race and might not be such a great idea)
16:31.43CatButtsI don't mind my quick fix not surviving a reboot
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17:08.01DocScrutinizer05bencoh: that's why I recommended to rather _not_ (bind)mount anything there
17:10.57DocScrutinizer05related:  alias uhls=':(){ echo `readlink -f $1`; mkdir /tmp/uh && mount --bind / /tmp/uh && pushd /tmp/uh && ls -lR `readlink -f $1` && popd && umount /tmp/uh && rmdir /tmp/uh; };:'
17:12.07DocScrutinizer05uh like UnHide
17:12.42DocScrutinizer05which might well be needed to actually access your /home/user/MyDocs/mmc1 mount
17:12.59DocScrutinizer05when /home/user/MyDocs gets mounted later than /home/user/MyDocs/mmc1
17:15.43siceloCatButts: phoneme *does* know how to use sd card just fine.  no need for any (bind)mounts
17:17.21sicelowhat application are you trying to run?
17:29.26*** join/#maemo thuttu77 (~thuttu77@82-181-37-124.bb.dnainternet.fi)
17:29.32DocScrutinizer05what's phoneme?
17:30.50CatButtsit emulates a javaphone
17:30.53CatButtsJ2SE
17:31.29CatButtsit's one of the more decent emus
17:31.31siceloJ2ME :-)
17:31.47CatButtssorry, sicelo
17:32.08CatButtsexcept the version I have is dated 2012
17:32.13CatButtsnot quite so decent
17:33.51DocScrutinizer05what's a javaphone?
17:34.06DocScrutinizer05not that it sounds like anything faintly useful for N900
17:34.41CatButtsit's the older phones that run J2ME
17:34.58CatButtsunrelated:
17:34.59CatButts~palmos
17:34.59infobotextra, extra, read all about it, palmos is the second finest OS this bot knows about
17:35.25CatButtsI needed to copypaste this
17:40.34siceloDocScrutinizer05: it's a J2ME emulator for running those old-school java applets
17:41.16siceloe.g. on nkia S40 phones
17:41.18sicelo*Nokia
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17:42.11CatButtshttp://cat.butt.care:3434/priv/Vibe_in_action.gif one of the few applications I cared about
17:42.32CatButtsthat, and opera mini
17:43.01CatButtsopera mini mod
17:43.11sicelothe one giving you problems is that 'vibe'?
17:43.19CatButtsyes
17:43.45CatButtshmmm, I think I can output a log
17:43.50sicelowhat's nice/good about mini "mod" when compared to the plain one?
17:44.00CatButtseverything
17:44.14CatButtsit's like a browser-centric OS
17:45.17CatButtsover-customisability, new browsing features, use heap or file storage for browser cache
17:46.03CatButtsdownload manager, ftp client, file browser, basic media player, text viewer and editor, hex editor
17:46.04bencohI still dont really understand why you'd run java-powered app on n900
17:46.27CatButtsI've got a few apps I liked on my java phones
17:47.00CatButtshell, maybe j2me keepass is more usable than n900 one!
17:47.17CatButtsand vibe
17:47.24CatButtsvibe is midi sequencer
17:47.39CatButtswith a bunch of mods I added
17:48.05CatButtsdoes n900 even have a midi seq?
17:48.12CatButtsin the repos?
17:48.18CatButtsnope!
17:48.54CatButtsthe only decent drawing application on this happens to be J2SE one
17:49.26CatButtsI resort to other platforms because what is available directly for the N900 is
17:49.28CatButtswell
17:49.31CatButtsit's meh
17:50.35CatButts*on this phone
17:52.32KotCzarnyCatButts: oscp can play midis
17:52.46CatButtsvibe can make them
17:53.16KotCzarnybut i dont think it has midi in the system
17:54.02DocScrutinizer05decent drawing application?
17:54.11DocScrutinizer05err
17:54.48CatButtssheepdrawing is the other one
17:54.57CatButts:p
17:55.12CatButtsjk
17:55.28CatButtsmyPaint counts as 'half-arsed' port for me
17:55.38DocScrutinizer05https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=66RBfrBgL2E
17:57.31CatButtshttp://cat.butt.care:3434/priv/screenshot03[2].png
17:58.26DocScrutinizer05half-arsed, eh?
17:59.14KotCzarnyhalf-shagged
17:59.34CatButtsthe GUI handles like it's meant for PC, not phone
17:59.45CatButtsfor myPaint
18:00.15KotCzarnythat's why things while generally compile and work unmodified for maemo, need porting
18:00.42CatButtsyes
18:00.57CatButtshttp://cat.butt.care:3434/priv/oekakiiiiiii.PNG this is simpler, compared to myPaint
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18:02.24CatButtsand with some diddling of the keymap, it's usable
18:02.28DocScrutinizer05well, "it's NOT a phone"
18:03.35CatButtsyeah, a standard phone would probably have no qwerty keyboard and would have shitty capacitive touchscreen :P
18:03.46KotCzarnyno
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18:03.51KotCzarnyyou are thinking of toyphone
18:03.54DocScrutinizer05actually N900 is a palmtop PC, Nokia calls the series "Nokia Internet Tablet"
18:04.09KotCzarnystandard phone would have buttons and would be capable of making and receiving phone calls
18:04.25CatButtssorry, my bad
18:04.52CatButtsbut even on standard phone I can run some neat applications
18:05.07CatButtsif its J2ME implementation wills it
18:05.07KotCzarnylike snake and minesweeper? :P
18:06.02KotCzarnywhy dont you just start looking for linux replacements of those j2me apps?
18:06.15KotCzarnythey are usually pretty standard ideas implemented
18:06.41CatButtsthere's a J2ME compiler and IDE running on J2ME that no phone can properly run because it's not powerful enough :P
18:07.35CatButtswell, the linux replacement of KeePassX on the Maemo sucks :P
18:07.53KotCzarnynope, its just not ported
18:08.07CatButtsI'd have to learn new skills
18:08.21KotCzarnysure, that's what n900 is all about
18:08.32KotCzarnyopen source and all the perks of it
18:08.54CatButtsrolls on his lazy feline bumarse
18:09.35CatButtsor I could decompile J2ME things and port them to J2SE by hand and forever hate myself :P
18:09.40KotCzarnythen make a bounty and post on t.m.o
18:09.47KotCzarnyand let someone else do the dirty job
18:10.10CatButtsbounty means offering money, yes?
18:10.25KotCzarnyor other things or services
18:11.11CatButtscan I make a bounty for someone teaching me through first steps of weilding the Maemo SDK?
18:11.13CatButts:P
18:11.20KotCzarnysure
18:12.09CatButtsI'll wait my next salary and think about it :P
18:13.46CatButtsoh, curiosity
18:14.05CatButtsdoes the digitizer on the n900 output a Z axis?
18:14.23CatButtsaka pressure
18:14.51CatButtsNintendo DS did actually output that
18:14.56KotCzarnypressure no, but can detect your big grubby fingers getting grubbier on presses
18:15.05KotCzarnywhich is kinda similar
18:15.33CatButtsoh, so it detects contact area?
18:15.56KotCzarnyyou should read how resistive screens work
18:20.35CatButtshttp://www.ti.com/lit/an/slyt209a/slyt209a.pdf
18:20.40CatButtsputs on glasses
18:22.39siceloCatButts: serious!?  ypaint is half-arsed port????
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18:24.13CatButtsyes, the gui/menus are a pain
18:24.46CatButtsthat appear suited for PC
18:24.59sicelo8mm sorry, but you're unbelievable! just look at your drawing app's screenshot - looks like a toy app
18:25.11sicelos/8mm/I'm/
18:25.43sicelojust learn the shortcuts. there's a reason why N900 has qwerty keyboard
18:26.14siceloi use only one j2me app now - a bible in my home language
18:26.46siceloused 2go as well before, but for some reason now it causes my n900 to reboot unexpectedly
18:27.08KotCzarnyhuh?
18:27.21siceloyes. no idea why :-)
18:27.23KotCzarnyswaphell + watchdog?
18:27.27CatButtsdoes it make you feel better if I tell you it's a java applet, half-arsedly ported to desktop, then half-arsedly adapted to N900?
18:27.33sicelonot swap hell
18:27.37KotCzarnycant imagine any other reason
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18:27.42CatButtstherefore, it's quarter-arsedly, sicelo :P
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18:28.50siceloKotCzarny: not even  heavy cpu use. i wanted to turn on RD mode to do better debugging, but got lazy. 2go not a priority anyway - just that a couple of people use it
18:29.15siceloCatButts: "it" in your last messages means your drawing app, or mypaint?
18:29.36CatButtsmy drawing app
18:31.40sicelomidi sequencer we don't have on N900 (due to general MIDI issues with Linux anyway)
18:31.53sicelolook at Sunvox though
18:32.08CatButtsthat's pretty good
18:32.23CatButtsalbeit, a bit heavy on the poor CPU
18:33.01CatButtshave yet to get used to its UI
18:33.24CatButtshmmm, I wonder if Java Embedded has built-in midi playback
18:33.39CatButtsJ2SE for desktop certainly has
18:33.41siceloprolly not
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18:34.07KotCzarnybut on pc you can stuff software renderer to alsa to act as a sequencer
18:37.44CatButtsI have this one replayer for some obscure tracked music format lying around, maybe I can coax myself to make a music tool around it
18:49.05CatButtsJ2SE embedded does have built in midi player
18:49.13CatButtsit's called Gervil
18:54.40CatButtsno wait
18:54.52CatButtsGervil is part of OpenJDK
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19:22.11siceloyou just want a midi player? :-/
19:22.17KotCzarnyoscp!
19:22.18KotCzarny;)
19:22.25sicelothen just get oscp by all means!
19:22.28siceloyes :-)
19:23.16CatButtshttps://sourceforge.net/projects/oscp/ shameless self promotion :P
19:24.14CatButtswhat does oscp use for tracked music?
19:24.24CatButtslibmodplug or libopenmpt?
19:24.41CatButtsthe latter being the successor of the former
19:24.47CatButtsinb4 neither
19:24.51KotCzarnylibxmp
19:24.55KotCzarnyfor plain mods
19:25.01KotCzarnyóscp
19:25.04KotCzarny~oscp
19:25.04infobothmm... oscp is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94590
19:25.07KotCzarnyread that page
19:25.15CatButtss3xmodit
19:25.28CatButtss3m xm mod it
19:25.32KotCzarnyand grab the version from extras-devel
19:25.38KotCzarnybecause the one in extras is ancient
19:26.09CatButtsand what do you use for midi?
19:26.16KotCzarnylibwildmidi
19:26.42KotCzarnyyou will have to add sound files too, freepats will suffice tho
19:26.43CatButtsoooooh, softsynth
19:27.04KotCzarnywildmidi is cpu friendly
19:27.13CatButtshttps://www.mindwerks.net/projects/wildmidi/
19:27.23CatButtswait, it says softsynth at top of the page
19:27.36CatButtsdoes it actually have synthesized patches?
19:27.46CatButtsor is it ye olde wave player
19:28.28KotCzarnyyou know that midi uses samples? even in keyboards?
19:28.40CatButtsnot necesarely
19:28.47CatButtsmidi is set of commands
19:28.48KotCzarnymany sound banks in keyboards are sampled for quality
19:28.55KotCzarnyand those cheaper ones are synths
19:29.04KotCzarnybut nothing stops you from using synth bank
19:29.15CatButtsit's up to the midi device/software to decide what to do with the commands
19:29.40KotCzarnyyou can easily convert and use any sf2 sound bank
19:30.07KotCzarnybut keep in mind n900 is a bit short on mem, so dont go overboard with 300MB sound bank :P
19:30.17CatButtslol
19:31.06CatButtsoscp comes with bank prepackaged?
19:31.10KotCzarnynope
19:31.16CatButtsah, my job there
19:31.21KotCzarnyfor size reasons and because freepats is in repo
19:31.34KotCzarnybut install freepats first if you want it to autodetect
19:32.01KotCzarnyotherwise you will have to specify location of the files
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20:09.55DocScrutinizer05~cookie
20:10.24DocScrutinizer05~botsnack
20:10.24infobotDocScrutinizer05: aw, gee
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20:53.23CatButtsjava's built in midi softsynth is too much for poor n900 :P
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23:24.16CatButtsapparently, maemo will not allow execution of HardFP elves
23:24.38CatButtscan't even segfault in peace :P
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