IRC log for #maemo on 20171117

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03:17.54OksanaaIs Mugen alive? http://mugen.co/mugen-power-nokia-n900-2400mah-extended-replacement-battery-with-battery-door.html
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03:43.07OksanaaAm I correct in saying that there are only three phones capable of running Maemo/Mer/MeeGo/Sailfish, having a camera and a hardware keyboard: Nokia N900, Nokia N950 and Jolla+TOHkeyboard ?
03:43.52OksanaaBecause Nokia N900 isn't quite compatible with Telstra network in Australia, and my cellular provider recommends switching to a different device.
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07:23.20CatButtshttps://cdn.discordapp.com/attachments/348544204072288257/380981105232314368/screenshot00.png
07:23.26CatButtssilly keepassx
07:25.16KotCzarnychange your theme to eat less button space
07:26.34qazWhat package provides perl module File::Temp ? it was on my n900 before os reinstall. Seems something was removed from repos since then
07:26.55CatButtsI'm using one of the default themes
07:27.02CatButtswhich one do you suggest
07:28.16CatButtsI'm also using an application to make fonts smaller
07:28.46CatButtsno wait, it's set on default
07:29.20CatButtsFont Changer
07:36.58brolin_empeyOksanaa: I guess that the Neo900 meets your critera too?
07:37.40brolin_empeys/critera/criteria/
07:38.09brolin_empeys///
07:38.19brolin_empeys/s//
07:38.44brolin_empeys/ //
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08:26.44CatButtshttps://wiki.maemo.org/Remapping_keyboard/user_vis_awesome_kbdmapping
08:26.54CatButts>ALWAYS TEST to ensure you have done it right BEFORE rebooting or you WILL end up with an unbootable system.
08:27.11CatButtsso tempting, so scary
08:28.35MaxdamantusOne of the reasons why you should set up an alternative boot sequence to get into a system where you can fix this sort of stuff.
08:31.39CatButtsthat, or playing scorched earth on fault :P
08:32.24CatButtsso, about this alternate boot sequence...
08:35.38KotCzarnythere is always rescueos
08:36.19MaxdamantusThat's the obvious one.
08:38.04MaxdamantusI don't use the ubifs on NAND for the normal OS, so I basically use that as a pseudo-initramfs when booting normally, or to a shell using a 3.14 kernel.
08:39.19CatButts~resqueos
08:39.51CatButts~rescueos
08:39.51infobothmm... rescueos is http://n900.quitesimple.org/rescueOS/
08:40.38brolin_empeyIs it feasible to run the OS from the internal SD card?  Then you could easily access the OS installation from another computer by removing the SD card if the OS installation will not boot on the N900.
08:41.26KotCzarnyrequires os scripts changes
08:41.45KotCzarnybecause there are quite a few assumptions what happens with sdcard
08:41.56KotCzarnyie. when back cover is removed
08:42.04KotCzarnyor mounting partitions
08:42.27MaxdamantusThe back cover issue requires a replacement of the mmc kernel module.
08:42.55sixwheeledbeastI think there is a version of keepass with the buttons changed to fit N900 better somewhere.
08:42.56KotCzarnyso while it is doable, expect gotchas
08:43.13brolin_empeyHas anyone successfully used an N900 running an OS from the SD card, though?
08:44.26MaxdamantusThe easier solution would be to just put something like rescueos on the SD card, so you can boot into that and fix things there.
08:44.40Maxdamantusbrolin_empey: I'd imagine so. It's certainly possible.
08:45.10CatButtsRescueOS has to be booted using a flasher tool?
08:45.26Maxdamantusbrolin_empey: if you're familiar with tweaking/debugging the init mechanisms used on a Linux system, you should be able to figure it out.
08:45.45brolin_empeyI see that some current models of x86-64 desktop motherboards have M.2 sockets, which is neat because then the (up to at least 6) integrated SATA ports can be saved for non-SSD devices such as HDDs and ODDs.
08:46.12Maxdamantusruns everything off eMMC .. would probably have been pretty much the same changes to make it work from SD.
08:46.22KotCzarnycabutts: yes, but it's ram upload, also always works (assuming battery is ok)
08:46.38CatButtsI'm familiar with Android rescue boots requiring one of the volume keys pressed
08:46.49CatButtsduring normal boot-up
08:46.58Maxdamantus(except for the mmc driver change, which would basically be required to prevent the system dying when taking the back cover off)
08:47.02KotCzarnyif you preset uboot for menu boot you can have similar
08:47.12Maxdamantusalready changed the mmc driver to not do that anyway.
08:50.36CatButts>Uboot PR1.3. RISKY INSTALL
08:50.39CatButts>DO NOT USE THIS UNLESS YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE DOING. RISK OF REBOOT LOOPS! MAY EAT YOUR BRAIN.
08:50.44CatButtshehe
08:51.15CatButtswell, if I break something, I can always rely on reflashing, right?
08:51.26CatButtswhat are the odds of a permanent brick?
08:52.35MaxdamantusVery low if you still have USB working.
08:54.01MaxdamantusYou can pretty much always reflash using USB, unless you overwrite NOLO, dunno how to do that.
08:54.36CatButts~NOLO
08:54.36infobotrumour has it, nolo is NOkia bootLOader, Nokia's version of uboot-alike first (actually 2nd) stage bootloader for NIT like N900, or somebody said it was a nasty character in Norwegian languange
08:58.46CatButtsfirst or 2nd
08:58.54CatButtsalmond wine or cyanide :P
09:00.32sixwheeledbeastboth
09:01.12CatButtsso what does installing uboot mean for ability to flash phone again?
09:01.36MaxdamantusYou can still flash it.
09:01.45CatButtsah, so no worries there
09:01.58Maxdamantusbut one advantage is that you probably don't need to.
09:02.06KotCzarny#absinthe
09:02.30MaxdamantusSince you can just store multiple kernels on eMMC or SD and boot from one of those.
09:13.13CatButtsProbably would help being familiar with Linux more
09:13.20CatButtsI am a windows user
09:14.20KotCzarnylol
09:14.26KotCzarnyyes. n900 is all about linux
09:14.36KotCzarnyn00bs go to android
09:18.55CatButtsI've had an Xperia E
09:19.02CatButtsdidn't stick too long
09:19.25CatButtsI don't like android very much
09:19.52CatButtsparticularely the UI design the capacitive touchscreen imposes
09:20.08CatButtsno stylus smaller than a meat sausage!
09:22.36CatButtsalso, keyboards/keypads are a minority
09:25.44CatButtsmumbles something about Steve Jobs rolling in his grave
09:28.24CatButts"We already have 10 stylii, we don't need to invent another one."
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10:12.43brolin_empey“<KotCzarny> n00bs go to android” Or to Apple iOS.
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10:35.19__axon__hello everyone, I have a used n900. What is the most uptodate instructions to bring it as uptodate as possible? Which libraries are still online?
10:39.09CatButtshttp://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU
10:41.43KotCzarny~flashing
10:41.43infoboti guess maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware, or - on linux PC - download&extract http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz, cd into it, do sudo ./flash-it-all.sh; or see ~flashing-cmdline, or see ~lazyflashing
10:41.47KotCzarny~cssu
10:41.47infobotcssu is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU, or (Community Seamless Software Update)
10:42.00KotCzarnythose two pieces
10:45.11__axon__CatButts, KotCzarny, I'll try and let you know what happend! Thanks a lot!
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10:49.54CatButts__axon__
10:49.55CatButtshttp://www.fladnag.net/downloads/telephone/n900/
10:49.58CatButtsalso this
10:50.34CatButtsthe articles still have a lot of dead links to nokia site
10:50.55KotCzarnyflasher script from infobot has all working links
10:51.05KotCzarnyand is preferred
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10:57.23__axon__one other question, does anyone of you guys prefer an more uptodate device ... or has insider informations about neo900?
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10:57.58CatButtsneo900's pricetag scares me :P
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10:58.10KotCzarnyfor neo900 info go to #neo900
11:01.06CatButtsactually, disregard my previous statement, as it's based on an outdated memory
11:09.29CatButts~symbian
11:38.07__axon__CatButts, KotCzarny, Thank you guys! everthing worked like charme out of the box! may I ask: do you have a list of applications, that are super useful?  
11:38.26KotCzarnywhat uses are you looking for?
11:38.36__axon__Or do you have a python2.7 version?
11:38.59KotCzarnypython should be available i think
11:39.10KotCzarnyinstall any pygtk app and see
11:39.11CatButtsget sheepdrawing :P
11:39.14__axon__with apt-cache search I get only 2.5
11:39.20__axon__not 2.7
11:40.09__axon__And is it worth to install any camera apps? are they really better?
11:40.19KotCzarnysome say yes
11:40.21__axon__Is there a good calendar app?
11:40.31KotCzarnyoksana is the best local camera freak
11:41.09__axon__Is there a good method to enable swap? Or will I never use it in your experience?
11:41.28KotCzarnymemory is low
11:41.55KotCzarnyso yes, might be good in some uses, but better to clear the device a bit
11:42.08KotCzarnyremember some apps are preloaded even if you dont use them
11:42.23KotCzarnyi personally just disable the preloading (ie. email app)
11:43.59__axon__how do you do that?
11:44.08__axon__is it somewhere in the menu?
11:44.34KotCzarnyby disabling preloading line in /usr/applications/hildon/ or something
11:44.40KotCzarnydont remember exact path
11:45.34KotCzarnyso i guess first things you should install is rootsh and ssh server
11:50.33CatButtsWhat sound API would I use for a quick-n-dirty CLI sound test on the N900?
11:50.45KotCzarnyaplay ?
11:50.55KotCzarnymplayer works too
11:51.22CatButtsaplay is CLI tool and not sound API?
11:51.32CatButtsrealtime audio
11:51.57CatButtslike playing a programatically generated sine, for starters
11:51.58KotCzarnysystem is hostage of evilaudio
11:52.01KotCzarnyif you ask about that
11:52.14bencohpaplay, since maemo uses pulse
11:52.15KotCzarnyyou can disable it, but then never use device speakers with raw alsa
11:52.24bencohoh, and ... the pulse API then
11:52.35KotCzarnybencoh, evilaudio provides alsa emulation socket too i think
11:53.05bencohyes, there is a alsa->pulse emulation layer
11:53.58CatButtsI should probably take the SDL path
11:55.32CatButtsI installed EdiCom editor and ran its gcc install scripts, but I feel I might regret it :P
11:55.41KotCzarnyyou will
11:56.00KotCzarnyyou can have fun with gcc on device, but dont go apt way
11:56.16KotCzarnyrootfs space is precious and scarce
11:57.40CatButtslooking at edicom.sh, it does apt-get
11:58.00KotCzarnymaybe they have prepared som optified package
11:58.03KotCzarnybut be warned
11:58.13CatButtsapt-get install
11:58.19KotCzarnyonce you get rootfs full its close to bootloop
11:58.53CatButtsgcc, libc6-dev, linux-kernel-headers, libgcc1, gdb
11:59.26CatButtsdoesn't N900 have 32gb internal?
11:59.36KotCzarnyyes, but rootfs is on nand
11:59.39CatButtsoh
11:59.54KotCzarnythere is 2gb for user data in emmc, rest is vfat in mydocs
12:01.50CatButts1.22gb available
12:02.24CatButtsvfat does not allow executables to be executed, right?
12:02.45KotCzarnyusually
12:02.52KotCzarnyand generally breaks permissions
12:02.55KotCzarnyand file naming
12:03.19KotCzarnybest way could be sdcard formatted to ext3/4 and using build tools there
12:03.33KotCzarnyor even debian chroot
12:03.59CatButtsvfat is not formatable, yes?
12:04.00KotCzarnyi have a scratchbox chroot that fits in ~300MB initially
12:04.12KotCzarnyyup, dont mess with predefined partitions
12:04.19KotCzarnyhardcoded stuff in plenty of places
12:04.25KotCzarnyunless you are willing to learn
12:05.41bencohCatButts: you can repartition eMMC with a larger /home though
12:05.53bencohthere is a wiki page about that iirc
12:05.59bencoh(or maybe even a script)
12:07.32pkill9do most people here use maemo on their n900 or load an alternate distribution?
12:08.00KotCzarnyi run maemo
12:08.04KotCzarnywith cssu thumb
12:08.14KotCzarnyand some hacks for more memory
12:08.53DocScrutinizer05~tell __axon__ about jrtools
12:10.31CatButtswhat advantages does thumb have besides saving space
12:13.01CatButts~chroot
12:13.01infobot[chroot] a way to change the root directory of a process, see also http://people.debian.org/~walters/chroot.html
12:14.06KotCzarnysaving space == saving memory
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12:32.30CatButtspower-kernel can coexist with uboot, yes?
12:34.15sicelo13:40 < __axon__> Is there a good calendar app? << qalendar
12:34.33siceloCatButts: yes
12:35.02Vajbdefault calendar is good enough :)
12:35.49Vajboff topic: i find it odd that windows calendar can't show weeks
12:37.44siceloVajb: qalendar is a FOSS remake of the stock calendar with nice extras
12:40.17Vajbi see. It does not seem to be in repo's.
12:41.00siceloprobably in devel repo then
12:41.13sicelohas recurring events for example
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12:59.57pkill9where can i browse devel repo?
13:00.25KotCzarnywhat devel repo/
13:00.34pkill9does anyone develop applications for maemo?
13:00.49KotCzarnyyes, you use scratchbox for that
13:00.52KotCzarny~sb
13:00.52infoboti heard scratchbox is a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at http://www.scratchbox.org/, hosted by maemo now. Also at http://maemo.merlin1991.at/files/SB
13:01.28pkill9thanks, is Qt5 on maemo?
13:01.59KotCzarnybest way would be using google and talk.maemo.org forum
13:02.04KotCzarnyplenty of useful information
13:02.39pkill9it's difficult to know if what i'm looking at is out of date
13:02.59KotCzarnytmo is not out of date
13:03.04pkill9like, does this show the latest packages people have posted http://maemo.org/packages/
13:03.12pkill9tmo?
13:03.17pkill9oh talk.maemo.org
13:03.18KotCzarnytalk.maemo.org
13:03.33KotCzarnyas for the link, yes
13:03.48pkill9is it possible to install qt5 on maemo?
13:03.57KotCzarnyit seems you are new, so quick hint: extras* is user submitted repo
13:04.24KotCzarnyextras-testing is meant for testers (dysfunctional now), and extras-devel is wild west
13:04.26siceloqt5 - no.
13:04.40KotCzarnyie. untested packages live here which might result in need of reflash
13:06.10pkill9why is it not possible to install qt5 on maemo?
13:07.04KotCzarnywho said that? i;ve just said i dont know the status
13:07.40pkill9sicelo said no
13:07.59KotCzarnyoh
13:08.03KotCzarnymissed that
13:09.35siceloi believe it has been tried .. but there are huge differences
13:10.58siceloso it turned out impractical
13:11.07sicelowhat you want qt5 form
13:11.21sicelo*for?
13:12.14sicelo(i'm talking about Maemo by the way, not alternative OSes)
13:12.21pkill9qutebrowser with webkit
13:12.51pkill9i tested it on archlinux arm on n900, it's somewhat laggy but pretty nice to have full javascript support
13:13.09pkill9and qutebrowser is a great browser
13:13.15siceloeven qt4 is very imperfectly supported on N900, afaik
13:14.32CatButtsthen we can run drawpile server on the n900!
13:15.06sicelohttp://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=84782
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18:08.01CatButtsI'm lazy and won't write code
18:08.14CatButtssomeone roll me over the keyboard
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18:53.01atkWhat's the abi used on Maemo 5?
18:53.16atkgnueabi?
19:51.36DocScrutinizer05yep
19:51.55DocScrutinizer05sounds familiar
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