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| 08:15.39 | CatButts | http://my-maemo.com/software/applications.php?name=N900_Fly&faq=47&fldAuto=1043 |
| 08:15.41 | CatButts | hehe |
| 08:16.27 | CatButts | straps his N900 to a large firework and crosses fingers |
| 08:17.23 | Maxdamantus | That surely wouldn't work. |
| 08:17.34 | Maxdamantus | Unless the application is insanely stupid. |
| 08:17.59 | Maxdamantus | It should at least expect the accelerometer to report approximately 0 acceleration throughout the flight. |
| 08:18.27 | CatButts | I guess there is one way to find out |
| 08:18.39 | Maxdamantus | I imagine it would also expect a sharp increase in acceleration before it suddenly stops. |
| 08:19.18 | inz | i.e. build a cannon and shoot your N900 instead |
| 08:19.20 | Maxdamantus | and probably after too. |
| 08:19.33 | inz | Or a catapult / trebuchet |
| 08:21.01 | bencoh | 10:17 < Maxdamantus> It should at least expect the accelerometer to report approximately 0 acceleration throughout the flight. |
| 08:21.04 | bencoh | wrong :) |
| 08:21.34 | Maxdamantus | Because the accelerometer isn't at the device's centre of mass? Maybe. |
| 08:21.44 | bencoh | no, that's unrelated |
| 08:22.02 | Maxdamantus | So where would the acceleration come from? |
| 08:22.04 | Maxdamantus | Air resistance? |
| 08:22.46 | bencoh | let's assume there is no air resistance, you'd still have a non-zero acceleration |
| 08:23.04 | Maxdamantus | From what? |
| 08:23.20 | bencoh | m.a = m.g in our case |
| 08:24.05 | Maxdamantus | The "acceleration" from gravity isn't something you feel. |
| 08:24.41 | KotCzarny | how do you FEEL any acceleration then? |
| 08:25.19 | Maxdamantus | unless you're talking about tidal forces, the internally noticable effects of gravity are from something like the Earth constantly pushing you off the geodesic you would be following if you were in unobstructed freefall. |
| 08:25.24 | bencoh | Maxdamantus: you "feel" it, it just that they usually filter it |
| 08:25.35 | KotCzarny | +1 |
| 08:25.53 | Maxdamantus | That's why if you leave the N900 on a table or something, it will report approximately 9.81 m/s/s of acceleration. |
| 08:26.11 | Maxdamantus | If it's falling it should report approximately 0 m/s/s of acceleration. |
| 08:26.13 | KotCzarny | um |
| 08:26.20 | KotCzarny | it should report 0 accel on a table |
| 08:26.25 | Maxdamantus | Wrong. |
| 08:26.28 | Maxdamantus | TIAS |
| 08:26.30 | inz | that would be useless |
| 08:26.36 | KotCzarny | true. forces cancel out == 0 accel |
| 08:26.39 | KotCzarny | physics |
| 08:26.51 | KotCzarny | accel != 0 => speed >0 |
| 08:26.57 | bencoh | KotCzarny: you're talking about the whole device acceleration |
| 08:27.10 | bencoh | he's referring to what your accelerometer reports |
| 08:27.24 | KotCzarny | unless you talk about sensors that dont report real accel |
| 08:27.54 | KotCzarny | that's why it doesnt report real accel |
| 08:28.07 | KotCzarny | just some arbitrary force direction |
| 08:28.14 | Maxdamantus | It reports real acceleration. |
| 08:28.22 | Maxdamantus | The acceleration you're thinking of is fake acceleration. |
| 08:28.29 | KotCzarny | false according to 'acceleration' definition |
| 08:28.51 | KotCzarny | F=m*a -> a=F/m |
| 08:29.06 | KotCzarny | and according to first or second newton's law |
| 08:29.14 | KotCzarny | on a table forces cancel out |
| 08:29.17 | KotCzarny | which means a=0 |
| 08:29.41 | KotCzarny | which means on a table device is NOT moving |
| 08:29.42 | Maxdamantus | Yeah, Newton's laws are about fake acceleration. |
| 08:29.48 | KotCzarny | lol |
| 08:30.01 | KotCzarny | seriously. |
| 08:30.05 | Maxdamantus | The real acceleration happens when the structure of the Earth pushes you upwards. |
| 08:30.26 | KotCzarny | you should really either rething or redefine words you use |
| 08:30.27 | bencoh | wait, what? |
| 08:30.30 | KotCzarny | *rethink |
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| 08:32.31 | Maxdamantus | http://abyss.uoregon.edu/~js/images/principle_of_equivalence.gif |
| 08:33.15 | Maxdamantus | The acceleration comes from the bottom of the rocket. |
| 08:33.24 | Maxdamantus | or equivalently, the bottom of the box sitting on the Earth. |
| 08:33.42 | KotCzarny | yes, and it comes from the force that cancels out g |
| 08:33.46 | KotCzarny | well |
| 08:33.57 | KotCzarny | not cancel, but change the resulting force vector |
| 08:34.16 | Maxdamantus | The one that pushes you off your geodesic, yes. |
| 08:34.18 | KotCzarny | which means F!=0 -> a>0 -> moving relative to the earth |
| 08:34.38 | Maxdamantus | ie, the force that prevents the Earth from collapsing into a black hole. |
| 08:34.59 | Maxdamantus | ie, the one that pushes things away from the Earth |
| 08:35.04 | Maxdamantus | ie, the strong force |
| 08:35.12 | bencoh | errr |
| 08:35.15 | KotCzarny | see? more forces |
| 08:35.28 | Maxdamantus | er, weak force* |
| 08:35.31 | KotCzarny | newtons equations were about macroscoping observation of them |
| 08:35.31 | bencoh | you're mixing everything together here, if I may way |
| 08:35.44 | bencoh | say* |
| 08:35.54 | KotCzarny | on microscopic scale things might look different because of quantum effects |
| 08:36.05 | KotCzarny | but otherwise newton laws is what we observe |
| 08:36.17 | KotCzarny | which means they rule our proximity |
| 08:36.55 | Maxdamantus | Newton's laws don't explain why we feel acceleration when we're standing on the ground but don't while we're falling. |
| 08:37.12 | KotCzarny | yes, but they explain how to make things move |
| 08:37.27 | KotCzarny | ie. change force vector |
| 08:37.43 | KotCzarny | you dont feel acceleration. |
| 08:38.06 | Maxdamantus | Of course you feel acceleration. |
| 08:38.07 | KotCzarny | unless you are saying that we feel it in the same way n900's sensor do |
| 08:38.13 | KotCzarny | ie. things pressing together |
| 08:38.15 | Maxdamantus | If you're in a car and you slam the pedal .. you feel that acceleration. |
| 08:38.31 | KotCzarny | no, you feel your seat pressing your back |
| 08:38.31 | Maxdamantus | If you're falling and you hit the ground .. you feel that acceleration |
| 08:38.35 | KotCzarny | no |
| 08:38.40 | Maxdamantus | if you're even just standing on the ground, you feel that acceleration. |
| 08:38.44 | KotCzarny | you feel the moment of force change |
| 08:38.52 | KotCzarny | nope |
| 08:38.56 | KotCzarny | you feel air hitting you |
| 08:39.07 | KotCzarny | if you were free falling+accel in space, you wont feel it |
| 08:39.11 | Maxdamantus | Well, no, you feel the ground pushing your feet. |
| 08:39.47 | inz | Wow, that escalated quickly. |
| 08:40.03 | Maxdamantus | otherwise you wouldn't feel any different if you were, eg, in the ISS, which has approximately the same air pressure as on Earth. |
| 08:40.16 | KotCzarny | anywa, n900 sensor reports the ball on a spring |
| 08:41.08 | Maxdamantus | Right, and if you are able to watch the screen while dropping the N900, the ball should move towards the centre. |
| 08:41.20 | KotCzarny | and in THIS case, force of the spring is influenced by g |
| 08:41.36 | KotCzarny | and other forces |
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| 08:42.20 | KotCzarny | put that n900 in space and compare the results |
| 08:42.32 | Maxdamantus | I can see that fairly clearly when I throw it gently, so I can still see the screen. |
| 08:42.41 | Maxdamantus | the ball goes to the centre until I catch it again. |
| 08:42.57 | KotCzarny | or take a ball, connect 3 springs and see how it behaves in your hands |
| 08:43.07 | KotCzarny | you will see then WHAT it reports |
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| 08:44.39 | Maxdamantus | If the N900 isn't moving in reference to the ground, it's going to report the same acceleration as if it were on the ground. |
| 08:44.46 | Maxdamantus | if you were implying something else, dunno. |
| 08:44.57 | KotCzarny | no, it reports which direction the ball is sprung |
| 08:45.06 | KotCzarny | and it reports it modified by some calibration number |
| 08:45.10 | bencoh | KotCzarny: he's right about what the accelerometer will report, although I still don't understand why he said the app wouldn't work |
| 08:45.36 | Maxdamantus | I said it wouldn't work tying it to a firework. |
| 08:45.51 | KotCzarny | but please dont rename acceleration know from school for something your body feels |
| 08:46.22 | bencoh | Maxdamantus: oooh, mybad |
| 08:46.28 | KotCzarny | ball feels force |
| 08:46.37 | KotCzarny | changes in force -> acceleration |
| 08:46.56 | KotCzarny | erm. wrong |
| 08:47.05 | KotCzarny | force > 0 -> acceleration |
| 08:48.29 | Maxdamantus | Right, and if you're sitting on the surface of the Earth, you'll be experiencing approximately 1 g. |
| 08:49.02 | KotCzarny | but you arent moving because you also experience opposite force of the ground |
| 08:49.08 | Maxdamantus | If you get put in a G-force simulator, they can make you experience more than that. |
| 08:49.41 | Maxdamantus | and if you're inside the ISS while it's in orbit, you'll be experiencing approximately 0 g. |
| 08:50.37 | KotCzarny | ~0g of the EARTH, but you will still experience force of the ship |
| 08:50.48 | KotCzarny | as long it would be ACCELERATING |
| 08:50.59 | Maxdamantus | It's not accelerating. It's in freefall. |
| 08:51.04 | KotCzarny | engines |
| 08:51.08 | Maxdamantus | It's falling around the Earth. |
| 08:51.29 | Maxdamantus | okay, they occasionally use rockets to recalibrate their orbit. |
| 08:51.30 | KotCzarny | i'm curious tho what would software report |
| 08:51.46 | Maxdamantus | but the vast majority of the time there is practically no acceleration to the spacecraft. |
| 08:52.01 | KotCzarny | because it's optimized for ground operations |
| 08:52.41 | Maxdamantus | I suspect they also constantly use gyroscopes to calibrate their rotation. |
| 08:53.02 | Maxdamantus | a phone's accelerator would report 0 g. |
| 08:53.13 | Maxdamantus | accelerometer* |
| 08:53.29 | KotCzarny | it reports force then, not accel |
| 08:53.44 | KotCzarny | just that software recalculates it into potential accel |
| 08:53.47 | Maxdamantus | "g" is acceleration, not force. |
| 08:53.54 | Maxdamantus | force is an acceleration multiplied by a mass. |
| 08:53.59 | KotCzarny | yes, but i'm saying what spring reports |
| 08:54.30 | Maxdamantus | eg, if you are 50 kg and you're sitting on the surface of the Earth, the Earth is excerting (50 kg)*(1 g) of force on you. |
| 08:55.53 | Maxdamantus | (that is, 50 kg of mass) |
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| 09:09.49 | sixwheeledbeast | I doubt N900Fly is designed to be accurate, just someone learning how to use the accelometer within some code. |
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| 09:39.18 | brolin_empey | â<atk> sixwheeledbeast: every time someone asks if I have an android or apple phone I have to explain...â |
| 09:39.18 | brolin_empey | Kind of like persons incorrectly assuming that your automotive vehicle uses gasoline as opposed to diesel fuel or incorrectly assuming that your car is a 3-box design by referring to the trunk? |
| 09:40.25 | atk | I am not a car person unfortunately so I don't know what a 3 box design is. |
| 09:40.33 | atk | But the answer is: probably. |
| 09:42.18 | brolin_empey | Or assuming that a vehicle with an automatic transmission has a torque converter automatic transmission as opposed to a continuously variable transmission or a dual clutch transmission. |
| 09:43.16 | brolin_empey | Or assuming that a bicycle uses a chain drive as opposed to a shaft drive. |
| 09:44.34 | atk | I'll use an analogy I can understand: |
| 09:45.08 | atk | It's like you telling someone you're a programmer and them asking if you are a C++ programmer or a Java programmer as if those were the only two languages anyone wrote. |
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| 09:47.50 | brolin_empey | atk: A 3-box design is a typical sedan design with 3 boxes: engine compartment, passenger compartment AKA cabin, luggage compartment AKA trunk. |
| 09:50.32 | brolin_empey | atk: Yes, I understood you even before I replied. |
| 09:52.12 | brolin_empey | atk: Technically, the N900 can run the Android OS (NITdroid). |
| 09:53.27 | brolin_empey | Some persons also incorrectly assume that a device with an LED display has an LCD. |
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| 09:56.14 | brolin_empey | Some persons incorrectly assume that IEEE 802.11 is only 2.4 GHz when it is now 5 GHz too. |
| 09:56.25 | atk | I was wondering though... is there some way of getting a more recent openssl on maemo? |
| 09:56.37 | atk | 802.11 has like 15 different varieties |
| 09:57.31 | atk | well, I wasn't far off, 17 according to wikipedia |
| 09:58.14 | brolin_empey | atk: I mean a,b,g,n,ac. |
| 09:58.33 | atk | Covering 2.4, 5, 3.7, 0.054-0.79, 0.9, 60, 45 and 60 GHz |
| 09:58.39 | atk | er, I said 60 twice |
| 09:58.53 | atk | 60GHz seems pretty high all of a sudden |
| 09:59.59 | atk | even a has a 3.7GHz option and that apparently has a range of up to 5000m outdoors |
| 10:00.17 | atk | that explains what those unifi wifi transmitter things must use |
| 10:01.41 | atk | s/unifi/airmax/ |
| 10:02.11 | atk | or not... apparently they use 5GHz |
| 10:02.23 | atk | and also airfiber |
| 10:02.55 | atk | I don't think those things are wifi anymore, they seem to be another technology |
| 10:06.58 | sixwheeledbeast | I believe the openssl currently in maemo has backports for bugfixes. There's some ABI compatibility issue? Again there was a thread about it on TMO somewhere, I found links to all the patches from 0.9.8o to 0.9.8z |
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| 11:11.43 | atk | I have 0.9.8zf installed |
| 11:15.01 | atk | ah... ABI issues... the bane of everyone's existence |
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| 11:31.25 | sixwheeledbeast | zf? fmg posted ze version here http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93296 |
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| 12:08.29 | atk | is ze newer than zf? |
| 12:10.48 | bencoh | err ... doubt it |
| 12:12.25 | atk | It would be nice if TLS 1.1 and up were supported |
| 12:12.30 | sixwheeledbeast | no, I wouldn't even think that was possible. |
| 12:12.39 | atk | I wonder what manner of backporting would be required for that. |
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| 12:14.13 | atk | it's annoying that they broke ABI |
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| 12:14.57 | atk | Or actually... It sounds more like they broke API because I can't see why ABI would be broken unless the ABI was actually completely changed by a gcc update |
| 12:16.19 | atk | ah yes, they apparently broke ABI by changing their "API" to use some compat macros |
| 12:16.21 | atk | that's pretty shitty |
| 12:17.21 | atk | At this point it seems like it might be easier to go through the list of packages which are proprietary and rely on the ABI and either patch them, RE them or ditch them |
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| 12:17.31 | atk | I mean, the list didn't seem that long ... let's have a look at what's on it |
| 12:18.25 | atk | ah, libflashplayer.so - perfect, something I disabled as soon as I got the phone working |
| 12:20.01 | atk | I think patching the binaries would probably actually be the simplest... I mean if it's just renamed symbols.. I might look into what that entails at some point |
| 12:21.23 | atk | ~porting |
| 12:21.23 | infobot | somebody said porting was http://www.handhelds.org/z/wiki/Porting%20Software%20to%20ARM%20Linux |
| 12:22.00 | bencoh | patching binaries isn't as easy as it might seem :) |
| 12:22.12 | bencoh | not always at least |
| 12:22.31 | bencoh | so you usually need to RE them (then you can just build from source) |
| 12:22.37 | atk | I was looking for http://wiki.maemo.org/Porting/Closed_Packages |
| 12:22.53 | bencoh | which is part of the work some people here are already undertaking |
| 12:23.04 | bencoh | or rather, undertook months/years ago |
| 12:30.15 | sixwheeledbeast | ~closed |
| 12:30.15 | infobot | closed is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages or https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages, or http://elinux.org/N900 |
| 12:30.35 | sixwheeledbeast | ah that's a different page |
| 12:34.31 | atk | bencoh: If it's just renaming the function it might not be as hard as you think - I just did a test (And I know that different length names might cause a problem so that's still a problem to solve) where I wrote a simple library with two functions |
| 12:34.55 | atk | the function names were the same length and I could control which one a binary called by just editing the file in vim and renaming the function in the symbol table |
| 12:35.35 | atk | I just need to see what catastrophe I might cause with ELF if I want to change the length |
| 12:37.04 | bencoh | atk: here it's not really just "changing a function name" :) |
| 12:37.15 | atk | Ah, but that's the cause of the ABI breakage apparently |
| 12:37.27 | atk | So I think it really might be just that in some cases |
| 12:37.55 | atk | the other option would be to take a newer version of openssl and write small wrapper functions for those calls |
| 12:38.15 | atk | actually, it might be possible with a combination of patching the binaries to use names which are previously unused and embedding wrappers in openssl shared object |
| 12:38.27 | atk | that would even solve instances where a function's API changed |
| 12:41.07 | atk | I'll have to try it, I'll get pmos running on an SD card and then take these old binaries and see what errors I get when running them on new libraries |
| 12:41.43 | atk | and then see what I can fudge into openssl so that along with a simple binary patch to write mangled names to the openssl calls which have issues the things call the wrappers instead of what they expect to call |
| 12:43.45 | atk | the only scary part of this is actually touching openssl source |
| 12:44.03 | atk | I remember trying to write something to do with x509 CSRs with openssl and it was a complete nightmare |
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| 16:10.44 | timeless | DocScrutinizer05: ping |
| 16:12.11 | timeless | do you happen to know what the columns in the table at the bottom of this output mean / what the table is? is it a process list (in which case, it looks like ssh performed a fork-bomb) https://www.irccloud.com/pastebin/cyLNHXbq/ |
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| 16:29.25 | timeless | https://utcc.utoronto.ca/~cks/space/blog/linux/DecodingPageAllocFailures doesn't cover it :-( |
| 17:03.16 | timeless | grrr |
| 17:03.35 | timeless | it feels like a fork bomb |
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| 17:07.25 | timeless | odd |
| 17:07.32 | timeless | according to https://askubuntu.com/questions/709336/how-to-find-out-why-process-was-killed-on-server |
| 17:07.36 | timeless | there shuld have been a line: |
| 17:07.54 | timeless | ... [ ...] [ pid ] uid tgid total_vm rss nr_ptes nr_pmds swapents oom_score_adj name |
| 17:08.26 | timeless | so i definitely have a forkbomb |
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| 17:26.23 | Vajb | do you edit code on n900? If yes, what is the editor of choice there? I just installed pygtkeditor but it seems to use a lot processor time. |
| 17:26.49 | Vajb | code meaning javascript at the moment... |
| 17:29.23 | timeless | used `vi` |
| 17:34.38 | bencoh | vim :) |
| 17:34.52 | Vajb | im too n00b for vi. I embrace my highlights ;) |
| 17:34.55 | bencoh | with a properly remapped keyboard, and a real xterm |
| 17:35.00 | bencoh | not osso-xterm |
| 17:35.12 | Vajb | sam aplies to ur suggestion bencoh ;) |
| 17:35.21 | Vajb | same* |
| 17:35.26 | bencoh | aww |
| 17:35.30 | bencoh | nano ? :p |
| 17:35.51 | sixwheeledbeast | vi |
| 17:35.58 | bencoh | (not really handy to write code, but ...) |
| 17:38.20 | Vajb | i have also leafpad. It is good for all but code |
| 17:38.53 | Vajb | ah and nano i use at the desktop |
| 17:39.30 | Vajb | but i kinda got used to highlighted code while using notepad++ so... |
| 17:43.49 | CatButts | slaps Internet Archive |
| 17:44.45 | CatButts | hey sunshavi, I has a request |
| 18:03.46 | sixwheeledbeast | be nice if pluma/gedit could be ported |
| 18:05.37 | CatButts | hey sixwheeledbeast, what do you call a three-wheeled beast? |
| 18:06.06 | sixwheeledbeast | undrivable |
| 18:06.09 | CatButts | a Robin Reliant! |
| 18:08.19 | sixwheeledbeast | pluma requires GTK+-3.14.x and GtkSourceView 3.0.x. |
| 18:11.03 | *** join/#maemo florian_kc (~florian_k@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 18:31.52 | CatButts | ~hildonization |
| 18:32.05 | CatButts | ~hildonisation |
| 18:36.24 | sixwheeledbeast | ~listkeys hildon |
| 18:50.05 | CatButts | hmmmm, it hit me |
| 18:50.28 | CatButts | do n900 phones come with multiple keyboard layouts? |
| 18:50.44 | CatButts | or is there single layout for this phone |
| 18:50.46 | CatButts | ? |
| 18:51.27 | CatButts | I ask because I see letters with accents on my keypad |
| 18:51.42 | CatButts | and am playing with ideas in my head |
| 18:53.07 | CatButts | and multiple layouts does not go well with these ideas |
| 18:54.07 | sicelo | you can redefine your layout as you want, with a few quirks |
| 18:54.41 | sunshavi | CatButts: As it is pluma/gedit can not be ported gtk version is 2.14.7 |
| 18:54.57 | atk | CatButts: there are models of it with different keyboard plastic things |
| 18:55.39 | CatButts | not about redefining layout, rather, about relying on a layout from inside applications |
| 18:56.01 | CatButts | ohai sun |
| 18:56.29 | sunshavi | CatButts: BTW i use emacs (it is on the repos) |
| 18:57.30 | CatButts | eh, I am not exactly accustomed to CLI text editors, in general |
| 18:57.39 | CatButts | maybe edit.com and nano :P |
| 18:57.48 | sunshavi | it is not cli it is gtk based |
| 18:58.04 | CatButts | I wanted ask you, do you happen to have PalmOS emu installer for N900 by any chance? |
| 18:58.27 | CatButts | Internet Archive is not working |
| 18:58.37 | atk | is there a graphical pass wrapper for maemo? |
| 18:58.48 | CatButts | pass wrapper? |
| 18:58.54 | sunshavi | yes i have it (on some of my hdds) |
| 18:58.57 | atk | yes, for pass the password store program |
| 19:00.02 | sicelo | keepassx |
| 19:00.19 | sicelo | ah .. sorry. didn't undersand |
| 19:00.33 | atk | that doesn't appear to wrap pass |
| 19:00.47 | atk | pass uses a directory tree of gpg encrypted files to store password |
| 19:00.49 | atk | s |
| 19:09.22 | *** join/#maemo louis_ (~louisdk@5.103.138.205) |
| 19:11.11 | sunshavi | CatButts: http://dl.mobilestan.net/index.php/files/download/6498419/garnet-vm-1.0.6b-itos2009-armel.deb |
| 19:11.39 | atk | Here's a good question - how do you select things in microb? |
| 19:12.12 | sicelo | tap the magic arrow on the right :-) |
| 19:13.11 | CatButts | gracias |
| 19:13.13 | atk | Oh cool. microb has swiping things |
| 19:13.23 | atk | you swipe from the left it seems |
| 19:13.42 | CatButts | hmmm |
| 19:13.44 | sicelo | yes it has many gestures. check wiki for detailed list |
| 19:13.54 | CatButts | doesn't seem to download, sunshavi |
| 19:14.07 | CatButts | oh well, at least I know a filename now! |
| 19:15.19 | CatButts | found it |
| 19:15.34 | sunshavi | great |
| 19:15.54 | sunshavi | CatButts: i think I also have the one for the n800 |
| 19:29.39 | *** join/#maemo eMHa (~mh@p200300738E05E700267703FFFE6CC360.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:55.17 | *** join/#maemo Kabouik_ (~kabouik@38.ip-37-187-46.eu) |
| 19:56.15 | CatButts | hmmmmm |
| 19:56.58 | CatButts | how the hug did I load external files into Garnet VM, I forgets |
| 19:57.07 | CatButts | I had styetap before |
| 19:57.37 | CatButts | I am doing the SunVox stress-test |
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| 20:13.34 | sunshavi | CatButts: SunVox 4 palmOS? |
| 20:13.56 | CatButts | yes |
| 20:14.06 | CatButts | I know there is a Maemo sunvox too |
| 20:14.16 | CatButts | but I want to test the emu |
| 20:14.25 | CatButts | by loading demanding songs |
| 20:15.03 | sunshavi | R You trying to load pdb's to garnet-emu? |
| 20:16.11 | CatButts | I am trying to load sunvox songfiles |
| 20:16.26 | CatButts | I need to encase them in pdbs, right? |
| 20:16.53 | sunshavi | not sure. never used sunvox on palm |
| 20:17.06 | CatButts | better question |
| 20:17.16 | sunshavi | At least You would need to know the format |
| 20:17.18 | CatButts | how do I bring arbitrary files into garnet vm |
| 20:17.38 | *** join/#maemo xy2_ (~xy2_@94.239.177.175) |
| 20:18.17 | sunshavi | the only way garnet read external files (no prc, no pdb) was on the sd card. look for emulating sdcar with a directory on the host |
| 20:22.42 | CatButts | hmmm |
| 20:22.53 | CatButts | looks like styletap had it better |
| 20:34.03 | CatButts | bueno, sunshavi |
| 20:34.04 | CatButts | https://www.plecoforums.com/threads/pleco-2-0-4-running-on-nokia-n900-test.2423/ |
| 20:34.21 | CatButts | 3rd post |
| 20:36.48 | pkill9 | is there a list of updated software for maemo? |
| 20:39.20 | pkill9 | CatButts: what's pleco? |
| 20:39.43 | pkill9 | oh chinese language thing |
| 20:43.22 | CatButts | it's not pico that interests there |
| 20:43.39 | CatButts | it's the method to access SD card from 3rd post |
| 20:44.13 | pkill9 | ah |
| 20:44.41 | pkill9 | question: is running linux 2.6.whatever that maemo uses bad? |
| 20:44.57 | pkill9 | is it like, really unstable and insecure and shizz? |
| 21:01.54 | Maxdamantus | I don't think 2.6 has much to do with insecurity on N900. |
| 21:02.30 | Maxdamantus | Maemo is generally very insecure in terms of "app" sandboxing, compared to something like iOS and presumably Android. |
| 21:05.06 | CatButts | you know what else is insecure regarding sandboxing? |
| 21:05.09 | CatButts | PalmOS! |
| 21:05.11 | CatButts | :P |
| 21:05.18 | pkill9 | :) |
| 21:05.18 | *** join/#maemo Kabouik (~kabouik@236.34.200.37.customer.cdi.no) |
| 21:05.31 | Maxdamantus | which means you should pretty much not run programs you don't trust on the device, but simply upgrading the kernel wouldn't help that. |
| 21:05.57 | Maxdamantus | (that last message was meant to appear shortly after the previous one, but connection went down) |
| 21:07.59 | Maxdamantus | doesn't know much about PalmOS, but imagines it's probably a system that's meant to run on CPUs without MMUs, so unless applications are translated from some safe "VM" code, they pretty much have "root" access |
| 21:09.36 | *** join/#maemo ruskie (~ruskie@sourcemage/mage/ruskie) |
| 21:12.19 | CatButts | http://www.my-maemo.com/software/applications.php?fldAuto=1048&faq=35 hehe |
| 21:12.36 | CatButts | https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=36698&page=23 |
| 21:12.58 | CatButts | whoops, I meant https://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=36698 |
| 21:54.11 | atk | You shouldn't really be running programs you don't trust on any device. |
| 21:54.21 | atk | For example, I wouldn't trust android so I wouldn't run it on any device. |
| 21:56.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | in memoriam Gary Birkett |
| 22:03.01 | Maxdamantus | atk: but you trust all the binary blobs you run on N900 that were provided by Nokia? |
| 22:03.25 | atk | of course not, but they're way more manageable and can be slowly removed |
| 22:03.37 | atk | and are way easier to audit |
| 22:22.03 | *** join/#maemo Kabouik (~kabouik@236.34.200.37.customer.cdi.no) |
| 22:34.43 | sunshavi | CatButts: nice and great. It's going to be useful when i need to load files |
| 22:37.52 | *** join/#maemo Kabouik (~kabouik@236.34.200.37.customer.cdi.no) |
| 22:45.07 | Maxdamantus | anyway, as for "shouldn't really be running programs you don't trust on any device", that would mean you basically can't look at any website. |
| 22:46.18 | Maxdamantus | Because the current web is built around the idea that you don't have to trust the content of random things your web browser happens to load. |
| 22:48.01 | Maxdamantus | Since even though they involve running arbitrary computations on your computer, there shouldn't generally be a way for a website to access files from your filesystem or read/write memory in other processes. |
| 22:48.54 | Maxdamantus | in iOS (and presumably Android), that pattern extends to all "apps" you run on the device, even though they involve running native ARM code. |
| 22:50.01 | Maxdamantus | in Maemo, everything is just running as either "user" or "root" and they can use standard features in Linux to access files/processes owned by that user. |
| 23:07.07 | *** join/#maemo Kabouik (~kabouik@236.34.200.37.customer.cdi.no) |
| 23:11.12 | *** join/#maemo florian (~florian_k@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
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| 23:54.21 | Oksanaa | Whatever sandboxing Android and such try to use, I am guessing that their drivers aren't Minix-style safe. |
| 23:59.40 | *** join/#maemo N-Mi (~nicolas@calvix/staff/N-Mi) |
