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| 05:55.13 | Maxdamantus | Weird. Seem to have missed some SMSes that were sent to me. |
| 05:55.55 | Maxdamantus | Can see them being received and acknowledged at the right time in syslog, but never saw them through the UI. |
| 07:00.43 | Vajb | Maxdamantus: they probably contained smileys |
| 07:00.53 | Maxdamantus | They did. |
| 07:01.06 | Vajb | there was a fix in tmo |
| 07:01.50 | Vajb | also i've noticed that some new phones send sms in wrong format |
| 07:02.12 | KotCzarny | isnt it priority issue for cssu? |
| 07:02.14 | Vajb | so sometimes they r treated as mms |
| 07:02.36 | Maxdamantus | It was an iPhone that sent them. |
| 07:02.36 | KotCzarny | vajb, that's because mms is often sent for free |
| 07:02.52 | KotCzarny | while sms is most often overpriced |
| 07:02.56 | Maxdamantus | So what's special about the smileys in iOS? |
| 07:03.01 | KotCzarny | maxd: utf |
| 07:03.04 | KotCzarny | most likely |
| 07:03.09 | Maxdamantus | I'd've imagined they'd've just been Unicode, yeah. |
| 07:03.19 | KotCzarny | utf encoded in unicode? |
| 07:03.20 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 07:03.44 | Maxdamantus | Unicode encoded in whatever SMSes typically use to encode Unicode, which I suspect is UTF-8. |
| 07:04.32 | KotCzarny | sms uses plain ascii when doesnt contain any special chars (and then you are charged per ~160 chars), when it switches to utf, you pay twice as much |
| 07:04.46 | Maxdamantus | .. so it uses UTF-16? |
| 07:04.52 | KotCzarny | yup |
| 07:05.05 | Maxdamantus | Who came up with that idea? |
| 07:05.10 | KotCzarny | dont ask me |
| 07:05.29 | KotCzarny | but it was big money cow for telcos |
| 07:05.32 | Maxdamantus | Surely they must've only started doing that long after UTF-8 was a thing. |
| 07:05.58 | KotCzarny | as people were trying to add language specific characters and weren't expecting |
| 07:06.06 | KotCzarny | nope |
| 07:06.25 | KotCzarny | it was when people started demanding localized phones |
| 07:06.26 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 07:06.38 | KotCzarny | even old nokia 3310 has it |
| 07:06.48 | KotCzarny | and i suspect even older |
| 07:07.00 | Maxdamantus | > The first commercially sold SMS service was offered to consumers, as a person-to-person text messaging service by Radiolinja (now part of Elisa) in Finland in 1993. |
| 07:07.26 | Maxdamantus | which is about the same time as UTF-8 was invented. |
| 07:08.21 | Maxdamantus | 3310 was apparently made in 2000, again, long after UTF-8. |
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| 07:11.38 | Maxdamantus | I can imagine devices just having options to set some 8859-like encoding before there being an effort to use Unicode instead .. find it hard to imagine how everyone would switch to Unicode but end up using UTF-16. |
| 07:11.47 | Maxdamantus | unless it really was at the very beginning of commercial SMS. |
| 07:17.05 | Maxdamantus | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SMS#cite_ref-3GPP_23.038_44-0 suggests that it's actually UCS-2, which would explain it. |
| 07:17.08 | Maxdamantus | Fucking idiots. |
| 07:17.20 | KotCzarny | money money money |
| 07:18.22 | CatButts | it's so funny |
| 07:19.07 | Maxdamantus | Well, UCS-2 doesn't give a monetary advantage over UTF-16. |
| 07:19.53 | Maxdamantus | (I'm guessing you're referring to the fact that it more often has to send things as multiple messages because almost half of the messages are just zeroes) |
| 07:20.30 | Maxdamantus | UCS-2 is just completely the wrong thing to use. |
| 07:20.35 | KotCzarny | yup |
| 07:21.03 | KotCzarny | even single localized character switches whole message into ucs-2 |
| 07:21.46 | KotCzarny | and since most people have some internet or mms package on their phones already, it's cheaper than sending sms |
| 07:21.55 | KotCzarny | apparently. |
| 07:22.02 | KotCzarny | which is just wrong. eh |
| 07:25.40 | Maxdamantus | Mm .. if I try to send a message to myself that includes U+10000 in it, it says it fails to deliver, but syslog just gives stupid dbus errors. |
| 07:26.21 | Maxdamantus | Oct 27 20:24:35 orcus user.crit rtcom-messaging-ui[26921]: GLIB CRITICAL ** default - dbus_g_error_get_name: assertion `error->code == DBUS_GERROR_REMOTE_EXCEPTION' failed |
| 07:27.04 | Maxdamantus | Don't tell me dbus is restricted to UCS-2 too. |
| 07:27.29 | KotCzarny | yaaaay |
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| 07:38.07 | Maxdamantus | Can't access the tars linked to from http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=93427&page=2 , but it sounds like it's just a matter of replacing a "UCS-2" string passed to iconv with "UTF-16" |
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| 07:43.09 | Maxdamantus | Yep, that seemed to do it. |
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| 07:43.44 | Maxdamantus | Hopefully that zero byte that was after "UCS-2\0" wasn't important. |
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| 07:45.44 | Maxdamantus | Will try it properly with an iPhone later, but can at least send U+10000 to myself now. |
| 07:47.47 | Maxdamantus | (for the record, I just used a hex editor to replace "UCS-2\0\0" with "UTF-16\0" in /usr/lib/libsms-utils.so.0.0.0) |
| 07:48.37 | Maxdamantus | I'm guessing "UTF16\0" would probably also work if it's just passed to iconv, because I think iconv is fairly lenient about those names. |
| 07:48.51 | Maxdamantus | (since "UTF16\0" and "UCS-2\0" have the same length) |
| 07:56.09 | Maxdamantus | Ah, I guess this is the thing linked to by that thread: https://github.com/harmattan/emojifix |
| 07:57.12 | Maxdamantus | Seems to effectively do the same thing, but it does it by linking to a different library instead of just changing the string directly. |
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| 08:44.57 | sixwheeledbeast | ~emojifix |
| 08:45.07 | sixwheeledbeast | hmm. |
| 08:45.30 | sixwheeledbeast | there was a thread on it somewhere Thomas Perl |
| 08:45.59 | sixwheeledbeast | Ah yesy that github link will do |
| 08:47.09 | ShadowJK | More importantly, unicode wasn't anything invented by phone companies. ;-) |
| 08:47.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | unicode in SMS was always in the spec afaik |
| 08:48.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, not sure about *unicode* |
| 08:48.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | might be other specific codepages |
| 08:49.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | but the switch of whole SMS from one-byte to two-byte chars been there from beginning I'd say |
| 08:49.26 | ShadowJK | ah okay |
| 08:50.28 | ShadowJK | Didn't windows use UCS-2 before it became clear that unicode wouldn't stay at 16 bit? |
| 08:50.48 | Maxdamantus | No. |
| 08:50.53 | Maxdamantus | Because Windows didn't exist back then. |
| 08:50.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | I can't recall details. UCS rings a bell |
| 08:51.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~phonecontrol |
| 08:51.07 | infobot | it has been said that phonecontrol is http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control |
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| 08:52.32 | Maxdamantus | actually, nvm, it did. I thought UTF-16 was older than it was. |
| 08:52.57 | Maxdamantus | Hm, so UTF-16 was made in 1996 .. that's .. after UTF-8. |
| 08:53.09 | ShadowJK | I remember someone saying that windows is UCS-2 .. but then switched to UTF-16 at some point |
| 08:53.17 | ShadowJK | Maxdamantus, yep |
| 08:53.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | sth along >> ADDR_TYPE = 129 #unknown format<< |
| 08:55.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.startpage.com/do/search?q=SMS+encoding |
| 08:55.32 | Maxdamantus | I didn't get something that suggested an unknown format. |
| 08:55.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GSM_03.38 |
| 08:56.01 | Maxdamantus | Oct 27 16:51:05 orcus user.notice telepathy-ring[1204]: GLIB MESSAGE Modem-SMS - deserializing SMS-DELIVER "..." failed: conversion failed (-10@SmsUtilssError) |
| 08:56.41 | Maxdamantus | Oct 27 16:51:05 orcus user.warn sms-manager[857]: GLIB WARNING ** default - Error decoding TPDUs. Discarding message |
| 08:57.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>However, since modern programming environments do not provide encoders or decoders for UCS-2, some cell phones (e.g. iPhones) use UTF-16 instead of UCS-2<< |
| 08:59.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>his works, because for characters in the Basic Multilingual Plane (including full alphabets of most human languages) UCS-2 and UTF-16 encodings are identical. To encode characters outside of the BMP, such as emoticons, UTF-16 uses surrogate pairs, which when decoded with UCS-2 would appear as two valid but unmapped code points.<< |
| 08:59.01 | Maxdamantus | That sounds a bit misleading. |
| 08:59.26 | ShadowJK | "n a standard GSM text message, all characters are encoded using 7-bit code units, packed together to fill all bits of octets" <- Ah this is the headache I remember |
| 09:00.03 | Maxdamantus | UCS-2 isn't really designed to be encoded/decoded. |
| 09:00.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | ShadowJK: see http://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Send_SMS for a fine (de)octettifier |
| 09:00.21 | Maxdamantus | Because what would you encode/decode it to? |
| 09:01.00 | Maxdamantus | You can convert between UCS-2 and UTF-8, or between UCS-2 and UTF-16, but some things in either direction simply can't be converted. |
| 09:01.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | def semi_octify(str): |
| 09:01.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | and |
| 09:01.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | def deoctify(arr): |
| 09:01.53 | Maxdamantus | whereas UTF-8 and UTF-16 are real encodings, since they are both able to losslessly convert between each other and conceptually into "Unicode" code points. |
| 09:02.03 | Maxdamantus | (as long as the UTF-8/UTF-16 strings are well-formed) |
| 09:02.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | oops def octify(str): |
| 09:06.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | also see my slightly patched version: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/bin/smscb.py |
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| 09:13.05 | Maxdamantus | So you can't octify one-character strings? |
| 09:13.12 | Maxdamantus | UnboundLocalError: local variable 'bitstocopy' referenced before assignment |
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| 09:17.48 | Maxdamantus | This octify function in that Phone_control link looks like nonsense to me. |
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| 09:19.34 | Maxdamantus | Seems to work as the inverse of deoctify at least, as long as the string is not of length 1. |
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| 09:21.18 | Maxdamantus | or not. |
| 09:22.46 | Maxdamantus | >>> oct.deoctify(oct.octify("a"*7)) |
| 09:22.46 | Maxdamantus | 'aaaaaaaB' |
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| 09:28.07 | Maxdamantus | and yeah, the SMS from the iPhone works now. |
| 09:41.42 | Langoor | I have my n900 on the newest cssu now (21.2011.38-1Tmaemo11) (testing branch) |
| 09:42.01 | Langoor | kernel-power |
| 09:42.16 | Langoor | now to uboot, I couldn find a lot about that, how would I install this? |
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| 11:19.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | decompression 7->8: http://paste.opensuse.org/25469617 |
| 11:20.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | oops sorry |
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| 17:43.48 | CatButts | wonders if running Discord on the Maemo is even feasible |
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| 17:54.34 | pkill9 | i'd like that |
| 17:55.45 | pkill9 | i would think the hardware could handle it |
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| 19:10.48 | CatButts | Discord is a piece of doo-doo, anyway |
| 19:11.16 | CatButts | but hey, if it's what your friends use, that's life |
| 19:11.38 | pkill9 | yeah |
| 19:11.53 | CatButts | oh, this reminds me |
| 19:12.03 | CatButts | does Skype for N900 still work? |
| 19:24.25 | sixwheeledbeast | Discord refer you to the web app for linux |
| 19:24.51 | sixwheeledbeast | looks like there is a beta for 64 bit only |
| 19:26.06 | CatButts | 64butts |
| 19:26.49 | CatButts | https://github.com/EionRobb/purple-discord |
| 19:27.05 | CatButts | this might be a starting point for such an endeavour |
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