| 00:02.26 | ss942 | deb files doesn't want to install. cssu doeasn't want to work because no libqt-core. Apt-get doesn't want to work |
| 00:02.40 | ss942 | is my n900 useless? |
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| 00:11.36 | ss942 | deb files doesn't want to install. cssu doeasn't want to work because no libqt-core. Apt-get doesn't want to work |
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| 03:34.06 | Vajb | hmm, should apt give some error and suggest using dpkg-reconfigure -a? At least that has been the case when my apt failed from reason or another. |
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| 05:43.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | next time ss9575 does that drive-by asking I'll quiet them |
| 05:46.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | "asking" |
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| 06:28.44 | Oksana | At least, it's a registered with NickServ user and not an anonymous one? |
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| 08:03.13 | teotwaki | Long time, no see. |
| 08:04.52 | bencoh | welcome back :) |
| 08:15.49 | Gamera | when the hell is that long overdue and over budget fucking board coming out |
| 08:16.58 | Gamera | and in the massive graveyard of linux devices that have been made by phone companies that excel in build quality and phone making, is anyone even going to buy it apart from the weirdos who already ordered it |
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| 08:18.08 | KotCzarny | no, because it is made-to-order |
| 08:18.23 | KotCzarny | so there will be no units available otherwise |
| 08:19.34 | Gamera | so preorders only |
| 08:20.34 | Gamera | and only the people with it will develop for it |
| 08:21.03 | Gamera | k. |
| 08:21.16 | KotCzarny | no, because it will use fremantle and/or the next release of maemo |
| 08:21.28 | Gamera | who is releasing maemo |
| 08:21.38 | KotCzarny | maemo community |
| 08:21.45 | Gamera | who is releasing fremantle |
| 08:22.23 | Gamera | how many other maemo devices are there? the almost decade old n900 and... |
| 08:22.37 | bencoh | well actually, nokia released maemo. a small group in the maemo community still releases maemo updates |
| 08:22.51 | Gamera | I used it until it was useless to me |
| 08:23.11 | Gamera | when whatsapp didn't work anymore it became functionally useless as a daily |
| 08:23.36 | Gamera | and I think messing around on their servers is what prompted them to encrypt everything. you did that without permission |
| 08:23.50 | KotCzarny | people using whatsapp are self inflicting pain on them |
| 08:23.54 | sixwheeledbeast | I don't anyone interested in the new board is interested in whatsapp |
| 08:24.04 | sixwheeledbeast | s/don't/doubt/ |
| 08:24.24 | Gamera | they're clearly not interested in anything normal |
| 08:24.29 | KotCzarny | wrong |
| 08:24.33 | sixwheeledbeast | #define normal |
| 08:24.51 | Gamera | what's an n900 worth these days |
| 08:24.57 | KotCzarny | 20-30usd |
| 08:25.02 | Gamera | haha fuck off |
| 08:25.13 | Gamera | I've seen them for 200 locally in the same condition mine is in |
| 08:25.24 | KotCzarny | sure, and i've seen people buying monster cables |
| 08:25.28 | KotCzarny | so fuck off yourself |
| 08:25.39 | bencoh | sixwheeledbeast: tbh I might have been "interested" in whatsapp, just because sometimes that's the "only" way to interact with a group of people |
| 08:26.02 | bencoh | (or doing otherwise would be quite awkward/uneasy) |
| 08:26.04 | Gamera | it's one of very few ways people with phones chat |
| 08:26.17 | bencoh | sadly, yeah |
| 08:26.19 | Gamera | girls for example use that shit compulsively |
| 08:26.27 | sixwheeledbeast | "only" is wrong everyone should have the choice, like bookface and skype |
| 08:26.41 | KotCzarny | girls also eat fastfood |
| 08:26.43 | Gamera | facebook and skype are worst |
| 08:26.44 | KotCzarny | compulsively |
| 08:26.44 | bencoh | sixwheeledbeast: you get my point though ;) |
| 08:26.52 | KotCzarny | which isnt going to do them good |
| 08:27.02 | Gamera | of course he does he's trying to pretend like there are viable alternatives |
| 08:27.21 | Gamera | yeah, girls are fucking idiots, that's why you stay away from them right |
| 08:28.12 | sixwheeledbeast | bencoh: there's always other options, I cba with anything like that |
| 08:28.39 | Gamera | it usually necessitates another person TO TALK to |
| 08:29.00 | sixwheeledbeast | Is this not a conversation |
| 08:29.02 | sixwheeledbeast | ? |
| 08:29.11 | sixwheeledbeast | I see no whatapps |
| 08:29.33 | bencoh | "cba"? |
| 08:30.23 | sixwheeledbeast | lol |
| 08:30.46 | KotCzarny | funny how that rant was wrongly directed |
| 08:30.51 | bencoh | sixwheeledbeast: err, you know I do agree with you btw, just referring to what (some) people think, and have a large group change their mind and habits isn't always practical |
| 08:31.04 | KotCzarny | to the open software instead of the maker that is against open |
| 08:31.41 | sixwheeledbeast | i know, I was providing conversation. Apparently we are incapable of it... |
| 08:36.13 | sixwheeledbeast | Everyone I know can contact me fine:- phone, e-mail, SMS, XMPP, IRC, forums. I see no need to follow blindly with the crowd and use services with privacy policies I don't agree with. If someone wants to contact you they will. |
| 08:36.35 | KotCzarny | true that |
| 08:37.09 | KotCzarny | you also forgot about direct face to face contact |
| 08:37.11 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 08:37.17 | sixwheeledbeast | I can understand why the maintainer wished to stop support for Whatapp, if the conversation always went that way. |
| 08:37.53 | sixwheeledbeast | face to face you would "normally" arrange first with above. |
| 08:38.28 | KotCzarny | in the past it was also arranged with previous face to face |
| 08:39.09 | bencoh | sixwheeledbeast: I eventually always manage to communicate with people as well :) |
| 08:39.26 | bencoh | but I cannot force a group of people to move to another platform |
| 08:39.35 | bencoh | (especially if I'm the newcomer) |
| 08:39.45 | sixwheeledbeast | :nod: I think society is changing people don't know how to speak to each other without social apps, it's upsetting. |
| 08:39.52 | bencoh | it is |
| 08:40.15 | KotCzarny | autistic society |
| 08:40.25 | KotCzarny | divided together |
| 08:40.29 | bencoh | well I haven't given in to whatsapp (or any other, for that matters) either, but still |
| 08:41.36 | sixwheeledbeast | You can force anything but if they are worth contacting they should respect your reason for not using xyz, otherwise it's peer pressure. |
| 08:41.45 | sixwheeledbeast | s/can/can't/ |
| 08:42.18 | sixwheeledbeast | my fingers and brain seem to have latency this morning. |
| 08:43.24 | bencoh | it's not really peer pressure when it's a group |
| 08:44.18 | bencoh | and well, technically speaking, if you join a group of person and don't like the way they communicate, you're the one asking for a change |
| 08:44.35 | bencoh | you're free to not use the same platform, but you'll be the one left out |
| 08:45.36 | KotCzarny | you are assuming there is only one group quantifier |
| 08:46.02 | KotCzarny | you may join the group for whatever reason, and only subgroup might be doing something you dont like |
| 08:46.03 | sixwheeledbeast | What I am saying is your not asking for change. If they want you to be around they will let you know. peers can be multiple or replaced by social. |
| 08:47.16 | KotCzarny | https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/peer |
| 08:47.27 | KotCzarny | one of the definitions: one belonging to the same societal group especially based on age, grade, or status |
| 08:48.22 | KotCzarny | but see: https://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/peer%20pressure |
| 08:48.57 | KotCzarny | by definition 'peer pressure' is almost similar to 'group pressure' |
| 08:53.31 | sixwheeledbeast | Replace whatapp with smoking or drinking for example, some of your friends may smoke or drink but it doesn't stop you going out to the same venues if you don't. They also shouldn't force you to do either to fit in, this is generic teenage peer pressure. I feel it's similar, no matter what age or topic. |
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| 08:57.38 | KotCzarny | lol |
| 08:58.50 | teotwaki | lol... what? |
| 08:58.56 | teotwaki | It's just fucking laziness. |
| 08:58.59 | KotCzarny | logging bot got kline |
| 09:04.42 | teotwaki | "it's not really peer pressure when it's a group" -- erhm, yes, it exactly is. You don't submit to the viewpoint of a single individual, you submit because your "peers" (as in, a group of people you interact with) force you towards something. |
| 09:05.03 | KotCzarny | one person can be a group too |
| 09:05.16 | KotCzarny | very specific group usually |
| 09:05.27 | KotCzarny | as in 'spouse' or 'girlfriend' |
| 09:05.31 | teotwaki | Sure |
| 09:06.10 | KotCzarny | pah, there could be also empty group, as in 'imaginary friends' |
| 09:06.13 | teotwaki | But typically, peer pressure refers to you being swayed because one of your convictions gets repeatedly challenged by friends. |
| 09:12.35 | bencoh | teotwaki: nobody "forces" you, actually |
| 09:12.56 | KotCzarny | peer pressure forces you |
| 09:12.57 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 09:13.18 | bencoh | not really, but if you wanna say so |
| 09:13.42 | KotCzarny | we are raised and conditioned by society, family, people around |
| 09:13.52 | bencoh | sure |
| 09:14.09 | KotCzarny | so that conditioning is what is hidden inside us |
| 09:14.15 | KotCzarny | and forces us |
| 09:14.28 | KotCzarny | very indirect, but it is there |
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| 09:35.39 | KotCzarny | https://scontent-waw1-1.xx.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/22552847_1856451711034865_2376855600081692336_n.jpg?oh=5cc4b7c551e41a0bfee5eae0117f068d&oe=5A68C955 |
| 09:35.42 | KotCzarny | important book |
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| 12:30.02 | sicelo | Gamera also wrong that 'our' poking into whatsapp caused them to encrypt things. |
| 12:30.10 | KotCzarny | he left |
| 12:30.11 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 12:30.15 | sicelo | yes |
| 12:30.20 | sicelo | i'm just adding |
| 12:46.17 | Vajb | sicelo: saying to his back :p |
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| 13:16.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((<Gamera> and I think messing around on their servers is what prompted them to encrypt everything. you did that without permission)) stop spreading nonsense! |
| 13:23.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | KotCzarny: which logging bot got klined? |
| 13:26.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | idly wonders if gamera and ss576 were same whining person |
| 13:29.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm nope |
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| 13:34.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway maybe maemo cimmunity should ponder what's the real story behind people chiming in more and more during last weeks with comments like >>is my N900 useless?<< and >>and only the people with it will develop for it<<, but also >>I got this phone for 35 euros and I'm really starting to love it<<. Might be realted to a recently arising discomfort or perceived issue in the Android ecosystem at large, no? And it might hint towards what |
| 13:34.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | maemo should "do" |
| 13:36.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | first of all we need a CSSU release showing that maemo's not dead |
| 13:38.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | then a few peole might ponder to spread the story *why* an old but totally open OS is better than an allegedly "modern" OS with whatshit that deprives you of your rights on your own phone |
| 13:38.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | people* |
| 13:39.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | and tbh we don't even need Android as the antithesis, we have Harmattan for that |
| 13:40.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | HARM already has all the stuff an OS ought and must not have |
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| 14:41.17 | sixwheeledbeast | :nod: |
| 14:43.41 | ff__ | is it everythink ok with multiple hildon-home: http://wstaw.org/m/2017/10/20/Screenshot-20171020-163511.png ? |
| 14:44.00 | ff__ | only last six windows are open |
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| 14:47.22 | sixwheeledbeast | wmctrl, never used that before |
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| 14:53.51 | ff__ | the same effect with 'xwininfo -root -children' |
| 14:56.01 | ff__ | http://wstaw.org/m/2017/10/20/Screenshot-20171020-165539.png |
| 14:56.41 | ff__ | just curious, OS works fine |
| 15:02.40 | ff__ | is it possible plug keyboard to N900 by OTG and keep powered device up at the same time? |
| 15:26.06 | KotCzarny | wmctl is cool |
| 15:26.31 | KotCzarny | i remember i've made a tool for diablo that was based on it and allowed switching non-ossoized windows around |
| 15:35.45 | ff__ | sth like that http://paste.debian.net/plain/991865 ? :) |
| 15:36.03 | ff__ | yes, it's small & fast |
| 15:37.49 | KotCzarny | nah, it was python app afair, was showing list of the windows to bringo to front etc |
| 15:42.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~hen |
| 15:42.31 | infobot | from memory, hen is hostmode-easy-now, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232, or see ~hostmode |
| 15:42.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~hostmode |
| 15:42.43 | infobot | [hostmode] http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=652330, or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkCDyUO0sKQ, or see ~hostmode-powered |
| 15:42.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~hostmode-powered |
| 15:42.49 | infobot | rumour has it, hostmode-powered is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=921203#post921203 |
| 15:43.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | see YT link ^^^ |
| 15:44.00 | ff__ | and what's that multiple hildon-home shows by wmctrl? |
| 15:49.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | prolly hidden "windows" e.g the system menu |
| 15:49.46 | ff__ | python language is better than shell, but python is much heavy, can it be lighter? maybe by cut some libs off or sth else? |
| 15:49.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | 4 desktops, appswitcher, applauncher... |
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| 15:50.34 | ff__ | disabled 4 desktops, only one active |
| 15:50.35 | KotCzarny | for one-off apps, python is good enough, but even for complicated apps it works nicely |
| 15:50.55 | KotCzarny | i have ui for my audio player written in python for example |
| 15:51.06 | ff__ | thanks for powered OTG, I'll investigate it |
| 15:51.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | yw |
| 15:51.20 | KotCzarny | rewritten it in c later and it also works, with added bonus of requiring ~50% of memory |
| 15:51.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | was "fun" to develop it |
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| 15:54.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | the nice thing in H-E-N app: the VBUS boost mode is via my script, you simply can replace that script by charge21.sh to get charging hostmode instead |
| 15:54.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~charge21 |
| 15:54.30 | infobot | methinks charge21 is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/charge21_500mA-USBlimit__UNTESTED.sh |
| 15:54.53 | ff__ | use both, thx |
| 15:55.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | I.E place charge21.sh in place of the original script |
| 15:56.18 | ff__ | that's new to me |
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| 15:57.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, to me too :-) Just came to my mind, I might augment H-E-N eventually |
| 15:57.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | or... is it already? |
| 15:58.46 | ff__ | if N900 would have more mem & cpu clock, you probably don't bother to rewrite in C, do you? :) |
| 15:59.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah, I sould check hardware to find out if VBUS already applied when user clicks "Power" button, then start charge21.sh function if it is, and vboost.sh if not |
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| 16:00.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | don't know why exactly MohammadAG rewrote H-E-N app in C |
| 16:00.52 | KotCzarny | ff__: i did a rewrite because it was easier and smaller to package it for windoze ;) |
| 16:01.18 | KotCzarny | in linux pygtk is readily available, for windoze it was 300MB package ;) |
| 16:02.22 | ff__ | that was I talking about, heavyyy as |
| 16:04.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | odds are you got a complete python env installed on your N900 already |
| 16:05.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's quite a lot of python apps |
| 16:05.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | python-based apps |
| 16:05.17 | ff__ | are there some converters python -> automatically ? |
| 16:05.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 16:05.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | python is an OO lang |
| 16:06.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's pretty hard to convert OOP -> procedural lang like C |
| 16:07.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | in the end you will get C++ made in C |
| 16:07.34 | ff__ | python-based apps eats mem quite high, on N900 can be issue |
| 16:07.51 | ff__ | ok |
| 16:07.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I doubt that fake C++ is more lean than real C++ or Python |
| 16:10.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw you *can* write more lean code in Python as well, you just don't make everything an object |
| 16:10.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | but that's pretty tricky |
| 16:10.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | since every string is already an object in Python |
| 16:15.15 | ff__ | KotCzarny: ah, you rewrote it already, misunderstood, sorry |
| 16:15.31 | ff__ | that's nice :) |
| 16:15.59 | KotCzarny | yeah, standalone binary with required dlls is ~10MB |
| 16:16.09 | KotCzarny | a bit easier to distribute/use |
| 16:16.22 | ff__ | good for you |
| 16:19.10 | ff__ | I mean good direction |
| 16:22.55 | ff__ | I know too little to differentiate between C and python structure |
| 16:23.14 | KotCzarny | my code was trivial to port because i wrote both |
| 16:23.20 | KotCzarny | so no confusion about the flow |
| 16:29.21 | ff__ | in that situation sth like borring formality perhaps, most fun is to create |
| 16:31.47 | KotCzarny | it was |
| 16:31.59 | KotCzarny | still is |
| 16:33.54 | ff__ | thx for knowledge / links, I go for powered OTG |
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| 21:32.20 | KotCzarny | 'you're' |
| 21:32.28 | KotCzarny | whoops |
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