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| 00:19.41 | Juesto | sorry for the noise |
| 00:46.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | in offline mode modem is supposed to NOT operate, aka "antenna off" |
| 00:48.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | it might (or might not) be possible that modem still scans for visible BTS, but for sure it's not supposed to transmit anything, since that's the whole purpose of offline aka airplane mode |
| 00:49.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | at+cfun=0 is not meant to keep list of visible BTS afaik |
| 00:52.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I even doubt a 911-call is possible in +cfun=0, which would be the only plausible reason to keep a list of visible BTS. Also 911 calls are the same whether with or without SIM, so that wouldn't apply either |
| 00:53.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's possible your *SIM* is running any cruft and thus consuming energy |
| 00:54.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | you know your SIM is a complete 'computer' basically |
| 00:54.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | with storage, RAM, CPU and all |
| 00:56.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | for timing differences in GPS with and without SIM, see |
| 00:56.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~gsm-agps |
| 00:56.17 | infobot | RRLP is the Radio Resource LCS (Location Service) Protocol as specified first in GSM TS 04.31, or http://osmocom.org/projects/security/wiki/RRLP |
| 00:57.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | and |
| 00:57.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~u-tdoa |
| 00:57.46 | infobot | u-tdoa is, like, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-TDOA |
| 00:58.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | RRLP is basically the service layer A-GPS, while SUPL is the user layer A-GPS |
| 00:59.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | buZz: ^^^ |
| 01:03.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | also see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radio_resource_location_services_protocol |
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| 01:07.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | unlike wikipedia ^^^ suggests, U-TDOA is also used in context of RRLP and E9-1-1 |
| 01:15.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | a not too technical article (as old as of 2005 it seems) about control plane (incorrectly called "service plane" |
| 01:16.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | ...service layer" by me) vs user plane https://www.directionsmag.com/article/3206 |
| 01:17.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | alas the excellent article linked in http://osmocom.org/projects/security/wiki/RRLP is "404" |
| 01:18.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | but for practical purposes you can assume SUPL ~= RRLP, modulo different planes they work on, from a user perspective |
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| 01:21.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | just obviously you need a registration to a RRLP-provider for RRLP, which in turn needs an enabled SIM. And you need cellular TX for RRLP which is not supposed to be possible in offline mode. For SUPL on the other hand you need internet connectivity which is available in tablet-mode but not in offline mode either. Then on top there's the performance difference between SUPL and RRLP, the latter being magnitudes better thanks to U-TDOA if |
| 01:21.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | the provider is using that |
| 01:22.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | U-TDOA based RRLP "SUPL" could (and does) actually outperform GPS both in precision and speed |
| 01:25.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | on thing's for sure: unless there's a blatant implementation error in device, airplane mode must never transmit any RF and thus no U-TDOA based (or other) location of mobile equipment by provider in airplane mode |
| 01:27.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | exception to that might be user initiating a 911 call which might implicitly end any airplane mode, though ususally you get an additional warning requester about the fact, asking you if you really want to leave airplane mode |
| 01:30.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-TDOA >>Today, in the United States, Sprint and Verizon use a form of GPS known as Assisted GPS while AT&T Mobility and T-Mobile use U-TDOA for their E9-1-1 solutions.<< |
| 01:33.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | also refer to http://m2msupport.net/m2msupport/atcfun-set-phone-functionality/ - up to the particular implementation of airplane mode if they use +cfun=0 or maybe +cfun=2 |
| 01:34.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | or 4 |
| 01:35.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | If I wasn't lazy to reboot device after that, I'd test setting the M900 to airplane mode, then on cli start pnatd and give a "AT+CFUN)" |
| 01:36.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | If I wasn't lazy to reboot device after that, I'd test setting the N900 to airplane mode, then on cli start pnatd and give a "AT+CFUN?" |
| 01:40.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | HTH |
| 01:44.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | useful article: https://technowizz.wordpress.com/2010/01/12/location-based-services-architectures/ |
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| 05:39.58 | xes | freemangordon: tomorrow I'll be back to "usual" boring life after a few days without keyboards....of course, except N900 ;) I hope to have some free time to move a few resources and prepare the VM |
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| 05:45.33 | freemangordon | xes: ok. It would be good to have something ready when it is needed, to not lose momentum. And trust from the devuan guys. |
| 05:48.05 | Juesto | nice |
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| 07:21.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess creating a (sub)domain will take longer than preparing a VM |
| 07:22.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | I also wonder if we run short of IPs |
| 07:25.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | devuan.maemo.org or maemo.devuan.org? |
| 07:25.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess our sysops will prefer the former |
| 07:28.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess you might pimp the scratchbox VM. It must be totally static and pretty low load |
| 07:32.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | and the DNS VM is maybe still totally idle and non-funct |
| 07:32.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not sure it ever went active |
| 07:33.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://monitor.maemo.org/ganglia/ |
| 07:35.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOL http://monitor.maemo.org/ganglia/?c=maemo&h=dns1&m=load_one&r=hour&s=by%20name&hc=4&mc=2 |
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| 08:02.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | Last login: Wed Feb 27 03:07:55 2013 from p5493b2e2.dip.t-dialin.net |
| 08:02.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | X-P |
| 08:04.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | warfare: ^^^ would we ever need dns1 VM? |
| 08:08.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | xes_: ^^^ |
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| 08:55.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~# lastb -a|grep -c 59.45.175 ;-->24978 |
| 08:56.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | chinese gvmt hackers |
| 08:57.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.abuseipdb.com/check/59.45.175.66 |
| 09:02.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | .24,56,64,66,86,88 |
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| 12:51.51 | xes | DocScrutinizer05: hum interesting... Let me check |
| 12:59.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | xes: iirc we created dns1 back when we hoped for hidden primary to Nokia's DNS |
| 12:59.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | prolly nobody ever looked into it since |
| 13:00.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | but for a repo it would need way more storage, and I don't know where from to get that. Could it run from aux directly? |
| 13:01.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | or what are the requirements for that VM? |
| 13:03.29 | xes | DocScrutinizer05: we have enough resources for a not too large VM (enough to fullfill freemangordon's req.) ...but then i hope we could buy some piece of hardware to expand a blade or activate another one |
| 13:03.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | I vote for activating blade3 |
| 13:04.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
| 13:04.16 | xes | :) me too |
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| 13:04.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | the CPU and drives must be dirt cheap meanwhile |
| 13:05.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | not so sure about RAM |
| 13:07.06 | xes | ..more or less.. Refurbished ram and cpu are very cheap. Drives not |
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| 15:06.40 | buZz | woop, the batteries i ordered already shipped :D |
| 15:06.57 | buZz | they claim it might arrive tomorrow already O_o , that would be weird |
| 15:08.23 | Juesto | maybe they are prepared |
| 15:08.24 | Juesto | :D |
| 15:08.35 | Juesto | i mean |
| 15:08.55 | Juesto | maybe they placed you in a free slot in a shipping order or something |
| 15:08.57 | Juesto | hmm |
| 15:09.04 | Juesto | actually scratch that |
| 15:09.13 | buZz | :) |
| 15:09.24 | buZz | its just germany -> netherlands |
| 15:09.37 | buZz | so might really be within a day, but doesnt seem likely :P |
| 15:10.38 | Juesto | perhaps |
| 15:10.44 | Juesto | :) |
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| 15:26.46 | buZz | :) |
| 15:27.04 | buZz | i'll mostly be happy if batterylife is over 1 day in offlinemode |
| 15:27.58 | sixwheeledbeast^ | Should be easy. I get a weekend out of mine with light usage |
| 15:28.17 | sixwheeledbeast^ | that's a several (3?) year old polarcell |
| 15:28.22 | buZz | cool cool, i dont even want to use GSM but sometimes its useful |
| 15:28.32 | buZz | without simcard in n900, battery last about a week |
| 15:28.41 | buZz | simcard inside, offline mode, barely a day |
| 15:28.42 | buZz | :( |
| 15:29.29 | Juesto | fancy |
| 15:29.36 | buZz | although everyone tries to ensure me that sim doesnt become active in offline mode, it seems it totally does |
| 15:29.53 | sixwheeledbeast^ | battery is likely exhausted unless you have something eating in the background |
| 15:29.59 | Juesto | theres probably a way |
| 15:30.58 | sixwheeledbeast^ | I don't believe it would but I couldn't say for certain |
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| 15:31.42 | buZz | ah whichever, it'll be over soonish hopefully :) |
| 15:31.46 | bencoh | I don't think it does, but I have no way to find out for now |
| 15:32.15 | buZz | i believe this is the culprit ; https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/U-TDOA |
| 15:32.39 | buZz | or https://osmocom.org/projects/security/wiki/RRLP |
| 15:33.20 | sixwheeledbeast^ | I just disable cellular in terminal so I can have WLAN. If I don't want to take phone calls but need internet. |
| 15:33.31 | buZz | reason i think this ; getting GPS lock without sim inside takes 15-20 minutes, with sim inside and offline mode, about 1 |
| 15:33.55 | buZz | sixwheeledbeast^: yeah i still need to try if that has effect on gps lock speed |
| 15:36.35 | *** part/#maemo L29Ah (~L29Ah@31.173.83.177) |
| 15:38.14 | sixwheeledbeast^ | Are you comparing them like for like. If you have WLAN it can get A-GPS data via that. |
| 15:38.40 | sixwheeledbeast^ | You could have had different variables while testing |
| 15:40.37 | jamesl | wait, A-GPS works over wifi? |
| 15:40.42 | sixwheeledbeast^ | I certainly don't get 1 minute GPS lock with data off. |
| 15:40.57 | sixwheeledbeast^ | Well SUPL server |
| 15:41.05 | sixwheeledbeast^ | supl.nokia.com |
| 15:41.37 | bencoh | actually not supl.nokia.com, but yeah |
| 15:41.54 | bencoh | (I mean, you still need an entry in /etc/hosts) |
| 15:42.10 | bencoh | I wonder if we could push a configuration file via cssu |
| 15:42.27 | bencoh | something to update /etc/hosts, and/or dnsmasq configuration |
| 15:43.53 | sixwheeledbeast^ | It's a bit hacky, you still need supl.nokia.com in the settings but some locations need a /etc/hosts hack for DNS reasons I recall? |
| 15:44.11 | bencoh | yeah |
| 15:44.17 | bencoh | just some locations? |
| 15:44.24 | sixwheeledbeast^ | :nod: |
| 15:44.26 | bencoh | supl.nokia.com is an alias for nokia.supl.svc.ovi.com. |
| 15:44.27 | bencoh | nokia.supl.svc.ovi.com is an alias for nokia.supl.svc.ovi.com.glb.as1248.net. |
| 15:44.27 | bencoh | nokia.supl.svc.ovi.com.glb.as1248.net has address 127.0.0.1 |
| 15:44.32 | bencoh | this is what I get for now |
| 15:45.13 | sixwheeledbeast^ | doc had a link I'd have to find it now |
| 15:46.05 | sixwheeledbeast^ | It would be nice to fix the issue properly not provide a hack via CSSU. |
| 15:46.34 | sixwheeledbeast^ | ~logs |
| 15:46.34 | infobot | All conversations are logged to http://infobot.rikers.org/%23maemo/ Lines starting with spaces are not logged. Logs are updated daily. http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ |
| 15:46.54 | sicelo | doc's lin is/was https://www.whatismydns.com/#A/supl.nokia.com |
| 15:47.53 | sicelo | fix what issue? |
| 15:49.54 | sixwheeledbeast^ | Get it working without having to hack hosts |
| 15:50.30 | sicelo | but the problem isn't in maemo? |
| 15:51.33 | sixwheeledbeast^ | not in this instance but I also don't believe we can use another SUPL either if we wanted to host one |
| 15:51.34 | sicelo | i doon't see how we can get supl.nokia.com to resolve to a real IP any other way |
| 15:51.42 | sicelo | right. |
| 15:52.10 | sixwheeledbeast^ | bencoh: https://www.whatsmydns.net/#A/supl.nokia.com |
| 15:52.20 | sicelo | we can use another. i know the google one definitely worked before |
| 15:52.25 | sixwheeledbeast^ | Resolves ok in USA for example |
| 15:53.54 | sicelo | so yes, self-hosting could be a real possibility |
| 15:56.12 | sixwheeledbeast^ | I don't believe we can use the google one, I can't remember why. Otherwise the fix could be to switch to supl.google.com |
| 15:56.46 | sixwheeledbeast^ | Not that I would want to let google handle my requests anyway :) |
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| 16:18.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | buZz: please issue pnatd "at+cfun?" in "SIM, airplane" mode |
| 16:18.58 | sicelo | yes google's doesnt work |
| 16:19.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | no way this behavior you observe makes any sense, except when an "STK application" on SIM runs circles when modem is in offline mode |
| 16:21.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | buZz: in airplane mode neither RRLP nor U-TDOA will work |
| 16:22.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | please issue pnatd "at+cfun?" in "SIM, airplane" mode, to save us from further speculating |
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| 16:24.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | issues with TTFF differing between offline+SIM vs no-SIM may also be related to first rough estimate for location based on your last network provider you connected to. without SIM that is not available. However it's _not_ related to any RF transmission |
| 16:26.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually GPS even might enable GSM in +cfun=2 or whatever, to determine location from mere monitoring of visible networks, still with no RF TX. This also should work without SIM but might be broken since nobody in Nokia modem team ever tested it |
| 16:26.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | AT+CFUN? will tell us a lot about all this |
| 16:30.05 | buZz | i will as soon as i'm back where the n900 is laying on charger :) |
| 16:31.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((an "STK application" on SIM runs circles)) particularly prone to that: SIM of providers with a "homezone" concept. They actually calculate your location on the SIM MCU |
| 16:32.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | bencoh: issuing a "AT+CFUN=0§ should fix any such issues for good |
| 16:32.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | bencoh: issuing a "AT+CFUN=0" should fix any such issues for good |
| 16:32.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's supposed to completely shut down modem (and GPS) and thus SIM |
| 16:33.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | obviously when you enable GPS, the middleware *will* re-enable moden via something like AT+CFUN=2 (or 4) |
| 16:34.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | otherwise the GPS in modem wouldn't be available at all |
| 16:34.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | but then, GPS itself eats LOTS of power |
| 16:35.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | you're not supposed to have it running all the time |
| 16:36.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | I could see how interleaving offline GPS-on online GPS-off commands could confuse the middleware |
| 16:37.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | possibly even a mere GPS-off doesn't exactly what it's supposed to do |
| 16:38.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | then you should try to fix that confusion with a offline->online->offline cycle |
| 16:38.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | or with pnatd AT+CFUN=0 |
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| 16:43.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | rotfl, sth funny with pnatd, at+cfun=0 makes it disconnect (surprise surprise - it connects to a modem it just has shut down completely) |
| 16:43.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.ubuntu.com/25163802 |
| 16:44.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | nfc what restarts modem when you restart pnatd |
| 16:45.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | blame csd and whatnot |
| 16:46.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | though... .oO(???) AT interpreter should stay alive even with AT+CFUN=0 |
| 16:46.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | prolly some watchdog kicks in when modem loses all radio activity ;-) unexpectedly |
| 16:46.55 | sicelo | term frezes :) |
| 16:47.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, first time I had to disconnet ssj via ~. |
| 16:47.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | ssh* |
| 16:47.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | when you do locally, you need to close xterm or kill pnatd from another terminal |
| 16:48.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | for unclear reasons pnatd has no known way to quit it |
| 16:49.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway I'm too lazy to switch my device to airplane mode the canonical way to check, right now |
| 16:50.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | just want to correct myself: AT+CFUN=0 might fail to work as expected, thanks to other stuff (watchdog) interfering |
| 16:50.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | might or might not, no idea |
| 16:53.08 | *** part/#maemo L29Ah (~L29Ah@31.173.83.177) |
| 16:54.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | playing with pnatd CFUN is considered safe anyway, except from maximal a reboot needed to fix stuff. ATS0=1 however is not as easy to fix again |
| 16:54.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | so don't do it unless you understand exactly what it does |
| 16:55.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | you could even ruin your SIM card by indiscriminately issuing AT commands you don't understand |
| 16:56.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | hint: POIN and PUK entry also is just a AT command. Don't touch those! |
| 16:59.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://seriss.com/people/erco/unixtools/hayes.html |
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| 17:15.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | HAH!!! "please enter PIN-code" on device screen. That actually might explain ERROR reply to at+cfun? |
| 17:21.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think I know what happens: pnatd *is* the AT interpreter for ISI protocol to modem. pnatd is not prepared to handle CFUN states other than 1 (full). So after sending an ISI command to modem that's equivalent to +cfun=0 or +cfun=4, pnatd doesn't understand the answer from modem and so replies to +cfun? with "ERROR" |
| 17:23.01 | APic | DocScrutinizer05 > * |
| 17:23.01 | APic | ð |
| 17:23.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | the modem however seems to act naturally, entering a CFUN state <>1 when you go airplane mode |
| 17:23.10 | APic | ð |
| 17:25.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | and again: *no* transmission whatsoever in airplane mode is the whole purpose of that mode, so I can't see how RRLP or U-TDOA is involved. At best (worst) modem still *receives* aka scans for all visible networks and *might* work differently on that when a SIM is inserted to tell the modem which network(s) is the preferred one that needs particular attention |
| 17:26.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | so actually in airplane mode without SIM the modem might scan more bands and channels than with SIM inserted |
| 17:27.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't see how it could be more busy with SIM than without, in airplane mode |
| 17:28.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless there's a STK app running on SIM |
| 17:29.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.ubuntu.com/25163986 |
| 17:34.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | at+cfun=4 (disable phone both transmit and receive RF circuits) doesn't seem to make the SIM PIN code requester pop up |
| 17:35.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://m2msupport.net/m2msupport/atcfun-set-phone-functionality/ |
| 17:35.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | at+cfun=2/3 isn't supported according to at+cfun=? |
| 17:36.58 | sicelo | N900 is a good/meek netizen, but I'd like for it to be more aggresive sometimes. gy 'good netizen' i mean - it is very happy to wait for network packets, etc. Droids don't do this. they demand attention ruthlessly. i'd like to (at least sometimes) have that on N900. any ideas? |
| 17:37.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | re TTFF also please note that a second fix, same day, is always way faster than the initial one |
| 17:38.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | sicelo: demand attention? |
| 17:38.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | what else than wait could a device do when it actually waits for a network packet |
| 17:39.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can adjust the duration it waits until the tcp/ip stack throws timeout error |
| 17:40.06 | sicelo | i was wondering if iphbd couldn't be tweaked to controlthis somehow |
| 17:40.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | I bet there's a /proc node for that, at least in powerkernel |
| 17:40.57 | sicelo | i'll try them too |
| 17:41.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | on my desktop PC I adjust that in "configuration" tool, so I don't know the right proc node off top of my head |
| 17:41.39 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 17:42.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | either /proc/net/whatever or even /dev/net/whatever, I guess |
| 17:42.15 | sicelo | n900's network speeds are way slower than of any droid that i've seen .. even really 'weak' droids |
| 17:42.16 | *** join/#maemo xes__ (~xes@unaffiliated/xes) |
| 17:42.31 | sicelo | i've seen those nodes before. will adjust and see |
| 17:46.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.sekuda.com/overriding_the_default_linux_kernel_20_second_tcp_socket_connect_timeout |
| 17:48.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# cat /proc/sys/net/ipv4/tcp_syn_retries |
| 17:48.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | 5 |
| 17:49.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm still not sure I understand what exactly you want to achieve |
| 17:50.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | n900's perceived network speed depends on a friggin lot of factors, starting at WLAN chip and connection and probably ending at swap needed for rendering huge web pages in vrowser |
| 17:52.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | first define the problem please, very specifically. Then we can look into what's the culprit and what might get done about it |
| 17:55.10 | sicelo | my problem is in cellular Internet. unacceptably slow, hangs. i know the ISP itself is bad, but droids somehow do way better. not high-end droids |
| 17:55.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | sftp for example is quite slow on my N900 but I think that's due to en/decrypting overhead which is heavy on CPU |
| 17:56.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | browsing is slow mainly due to a lack of available RAM |
| 17:56.08 | sicelo | if i keep a running ping, it's a bit better |
| 17:56.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | oooh that |
| 17:56.37 | *** join/#maemo chainsawbike (~chainsawb@unaffiliated/chainsawbike) |
| 17:56.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's about AP and PSM |
| 17:56.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think |
| 17:57.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | or about swappyness in N900 kernel |
| 17:57.17 | sicelo | DocScrutinizer05: gprs |
| 17:57.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | gprs or umts? |
| 17:58.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | aka 2G or 3G? |
| 17:59.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | on 3G there's indeed a several-seconds long grace span in which the channel stays established (and even TX constantly running, thus causing UMTS eating more power than GPRS on slow pings) |
| 18:00.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | at full rate however the situation trips: UMTS is way faster and thus finishes earlier and needs less battery |
| 18:01.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | so for shell and irc etc you want GPRS/2G while for browsing and bulk downloads you want UMTS/3G |
| 18:02.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | when you say a ping improves the situation, I conclude you're talking about 3G |
| 18:03.44 | sicelo | even in 2G it's suboptimal, but on 3G it's completely bad. |
| 18:04.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | try a ping -f |
| 18:04.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | -f like flood |
| 18:05.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | if that improves stuff in 2G, it's likely a problem on provider side |
| 18:05.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly when you got some free RAM still |
| 18:06.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | use htop to make sure your system isn't running busy |
| 18:07.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | weird ipfilters/ipchains settings may cause issues |
| 18:07.34 | APic | lol |
| 18:07.52 | APic | ⥠DocScrutinizer05 |
| 18:08.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | make sure you have no leftovers from an occasional experiment with "forwarding internet via USB" or whatever |
| 18:08.06 | APic | (Not in a homosexual Way, just in a gayprideness-Way! ð) |
| 18:08.14 | APic | s/gay/happy/ |
| 18:08.19 | APic | ð |
| 18:08.23 | KotCzarny | apic: isn't it the same? |
| 18:08.27 | APic | KotCzarny: True. |
| 18:08.44 | APic | KotCzarny: But i would never insert my Penis into DocScrutinizer05 Arse. That Stuff i refer to. ⺠|
| 18:08.55 | APic | just thinks You Gals/Guys here are nice! |
| 18:08.56 | APic | ð |
| 18:09.00 | KotCzarny | so, passive then? :P |
| 18:09.05 | APic | In a helpful Way. |
| 18:09.12 | APic | No, not that Way around either. sorry. ð |
| 18:09.29 | APic | How would my Arse fit into DocScrutinizer05's Penis anyhow? ð |
| 18:09.29 | KotCzarny | platonic? |
| 18:09.32 | APic | True! |
| 18:09.35 | APic | You got it! |
| 18:09.36 | APic | ð |
| 18:09.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | no sex, I'm british err an old fart |
| 18:09.41 | APic | Gut. |
| 18:09.43 | APic | ð |
| 18:21.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | a pretty much OT post that nevertheless I like reading :-) http://www.vanille.de/openmoko-10-years-after-mickeys-story/ |
| 18:21.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | sentimental journey ;-D |
| 18:34.27 | *** join/#maemo xy2_ (~xy2_@94.239.177.175) |
| 18:49.10 | *** join/#maemo louisdk (~louisdk@static-5-103-25-42.fibianet.dk) |
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| 20:54.48 | *** join/#maemo kalin (~kalin@128.140.177.180) |
| 20:55.30 | kalin | Hi all |
| 20:57.12 | *** join/#maemo L29Ah (~L29Ah@31.173.83.177) |
| 20:57.12 | kalin | I was have many issues with my n900 and i flashed it with PR1.3 |
| 20:58.02 | sixwheeledbeast^ | what sort of issues? |
| 20:58.10 | kalin | Finaly i have installed pyOBD on my phone |
| 20:58.27 | kalin | i was unable to install anything |
| 20:59.14 | kalin | but now when try to start pyOBD it crashed |
| 20:59.32 | *** join/#maemo Kabouik (~quassel@32.232.202.84.customer.cdi.no) |
| 21:01.15 | kalin | can someone help me to setting up pyOBD? |
| 21:01.32 | *** join/#maemo LauRoman (~LauRoman@5-14-27-82.residential.rdsnet.ro) |
| 21:02.33 | sixwheeledbeast^ | I imagine you are having repo issues? I have never had an issue with pyOBD. |
| 21:03.37 | kalin | no, it isn't a repo issue |
| 21:04.14 | kalin | i think it is a side effect of instaling audacious |
| 21:04.44 | sixwheeledbeast^ | well what happens if you start pyOBD from a terminal? Is audacious python? |
| 21:05.08 | kalin | no no no |
| 21:05.36 | *** join/#maemo Kabouik_ (~quassel@195.181.166.74) |
| 21:06.03 | kalin | when i install audacios the phone had a broken/missing packages |
| 21:06.37 | kalin | this is a second time that i have to reflash the phone after audacious |
| 21:07.11 | *** join/#maemo shentey (~shentey@x4e3508a1.dyn.telefonica.de) |
| 21:07.12 | kalin | so now i have fresh flashed n900 with only pyOBD installed |
| 21:09.05 | kalin | and when i try to start pyOBD the phone loading something few seconds and close the app |
| 21:09.41 | sicelo | 23:04 < sixwheeledbeast^> well what happens if you start pyOBD from a terminal? |
| 21:09.45 | sicelo | ^ |
| 21:10.10 | kalin | whait a second to try |
| 21:10.25 | sixwheeledbeast^ | ~audacious |
| 21:11.21 | kalin | did i have to be root? |
| 21:11.49 | sixwheeledbeast^ | er I would hope not |
| 21:12.28 | kalin | the terminal says not found |
| 21:14.01 | sicelo | root's needed to establishh the rfcomm connection .. butt iiirc it calls sudo for that .. also haven't used it in a hwile |
| 21:14.12 | *** join/#maemo louisdk (~louisdk@static-5-103-25-42.fibianet.dk) |
| 21:14.44 | sixwheeledbeast^ | python /opt/pyobd/pyobd.py |
| 21:16.30 | kalin | "No module named dbus" |
| 21:17.36 | sicelo | how did you install pyobd ... |
| 21:18.14 | sicelo | because python-dbus *is* a dependency .. so install that |
| 21:18.21 | kalin | App manager |
| 21:18.40 | jamesl | ~flasher |
| 21:18.40 | infobot | refer ~flashing; http://www.jedge.com/n810/flasher/maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz (also .exe!), or http://www.chakra-project.org/ccr/packages.php?ID=5027 or generally http://www.google.com/search?q=maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz. HARMattan(N9): https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/fl/flasher-harmattan/flasher-harmattan.tar.gz; list of filenames/md5sums: http://pastebin.com/sYKdNJSH, or http://galif.eu/nokia/ |
| 21:19.09 | jamesl | ~emmc |
| 21:19.09 | infobot | emmc is probably is http://nds2.fds-fire.nokia.com/fdp/interface/FiRe/2010/5/--FID--A0A22YHFSICNA/--LID--FiRe1275051276916/AE98ED9D_RX-51_2009SE_10.2010.13-2.CENTRAL-EUROPE_PR_EMMC_MR0_ARM.bin or see ~emmc2 |
| 21:22.13 | kalin | thanks sicelo , i will try today because first i have to install rootshell to use apt-get and add repo mirror |
| 21:22.24 | kalin | now i will go to get some sleep |
| 21:22.30 | kalin | GN to all |
| 21:28.10 | *** join/#maemo ff_ (~ff_@acnk45.neoplus.adsl.tpnet.pl) |
| 21:28.36 | ff_ | sicelo: try load CPU to 100% and then check internet connection |
| 21:28.57 | ff_ | accidently I found that this matter |
| 21:29.15 | ff_ | accidently I found that this matter |
| 21:29.29 | ff_ | when I download through wifi with 100% load CPU by for example encoding audio, average speed is about 96% of max available |
| 21:30.02 | ff_ | but when nothing use CPU, download average speed decrease to about 65% of max available |
| 21:30.19 | ff_ | maybe the same effect is with 2G/3G GSM internet connection |
| 21:34.57 | sixwheeledbeast^ | Er so there is an issue with repos or broken packages of some sort |
| 21:48.37 | ff_ | it's look like CPU's sleep timer introduce quite a lot delay into connection response |
| 22:31.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, that might make sense. Though probably because of packet / timer aggregating that's done in maemo to keep CPU in suspend mode as much as possible, and only do pending jobs (timer, IO) on bursts every now and then |
| 22:34.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | to avoid this, probably you don't need 100% load on CPU, what you need is frequent forced wakeups so the IO can get done, while sleep 0.02; do :; done |
| 22:37.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | or simply slide with your fingernail over the screen in a circular or other constant movement and see if IO speeds up during that. Touch controller will produce IRQs plenty |
| 22:37.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | sicelo: ^^^ |
| 22:38.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast^: I thik that's the right direction |
| 22:39.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~lf |
| 22:40.00 | infobot | i guess #maemo lazyflashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#The_Lazy_Approach |
| 22:40.17 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 22:40.57 | *** topic/#maemo by DocScrutinizer05 -> Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | "firmware" see ~lf (or ~tabletsdev ~combined ~emmc ~flasher) sdk: ~sb | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |
| 22:41.08 | *** mode/#maemo [-o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 22:41.36 | sixwheeledbeast^ | busybox sleep is only whole numbers? |
| 22:41.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah |
| 22:41.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | sucks |
| 22:42.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~messybox |
| 22:42.02 | infobot | messy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd, nice, ps, diff as used by mc...) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils |
| 22:42.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | it might have msleep or usleep |
| 22:42.39 | sixwheeledbeast^ | in fact busybox sleep has no arguments I recall. just full numbers |
| 22:42.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | don't know |
| 22:43.17 | Juesto | busybox is just a swiss army knife unix utils |
| 22:43.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | sucks, it has neither msleep not usleep |
| 22:43.23 | Juesto | it is intended for embedded devices |
| 22:43.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | jiemy take on busybox you see above |
| 22:43.48 | Juesto | go compare the size of a bunch of unix utils to busybox binary with the same utils |
| 22:44.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | who cares? |
| 22:44.18 | Juesto | :/ |
| 22:45.06 | sixwheeledbeast^ | er yes, the issue is our little devices are useful to have some better functionality than other embedded devices. |
| 22:45.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | I installed quite a bunch of gnu utils plus mandb and still no problems with free space on / |
| 22:45.49 | sixwheeledbeast^ | bash4 has an opt version I believe |
| 22:47.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | the major advantage of busybox is: it's a single monolithic binary, so the system doesn't need to load it again for 99% of scripts written for it |
| 22:47.42 | Juesto | yep |
| 22:47.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's basically an interpreter of its own, for scripts |
| 22:48.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | this is mainly a performance advantage |
| 22:48.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | thus buybox is nice for lean scripting, like e.g. by using it instead of init |
| 22:49.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | or to run init scripts |
| 22:49.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | but honestly, messybox is pathetic, do e.g a `ps --help` |
| 22:51.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | I know there's a pimped version that has more compile options for functions |
| 22:51.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | but it still stays sub-par compared to proper unix toolbox |
| 22:51.47 | Juesto | o.o |
| 22:52.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly when it comes to cmds_of(8) |
| 22:52.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | nice is borked, su is borked and can't ever get fixed |
| 22:53.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh, I ranted so many times about that thing I get bored doing it |
| 22:56.46 | sixwheeledbeast^ | I wonder if you could replace it for the latest version. Seen as Maemo is 1.10.2 and the latest is 1.27.1 |
| 22:57.26 | Juesto | probably if you compile from good sources sixwheeledbeast^ |
| 22:59.21 | Wizzup | $ busybox sleep --help |
| 22:59.21 | Wizzup | BusyBox v1.25.1 (2017-01-25 13:22:31 CET) multi-call binary. |
| 22:59.21 | Wizzup | Usage: sleep [N]... |
| 22:59.21 | Wizzup | Pause for a time equal to the total of the args given, where each arg can |
| 22:59.24 | Wizzup | have an optional suffix of (s)econds, (m)inutes, (h)ours, or (d)ays |
| 22:59.36 | Wizzup | $ time busybox sleep 0.1s |
| 22:59.36 | Wizzup | real0m0.105s |
| 22:59.36 | Wizzup | user0m0.001s |
| 22:59.36 | Wizzup | sys0m0.005s |
| 22:59.54 | Wizzup | further questions? |
| 23:00.53 | Wizzup | Being stuck forever on an old version of software doesn't make it crap nor messy. It just illustrates how important a healthy ecosystem is, where packages are kept up to date |
| 23:00.56 | Juesto | :p |
| 23:00.56 | *** join/#maemo Kabouik (~quassel@32.232.202.84.customer.cdi.no) |
| 23:01.20 | Wizzup | busybox is one of the best things out there |
| 23:01.49 | Wizzup | And you can easily build a whole distro with/around it - see alpine linux |
| 23:02.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# time busybox sleep 0.1s |
| 23:02.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | sleep: invalid number '0.1s' |
| 23:03.52 | Wizzup | >software that is 7 years old |
| 23:04.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | budybox is a monolithic binary that does multiple things and none of them correctly. Just like systemd ;-) |
| 23:04.54 | Wizzup | This is the most retarded thing I've read today |
| 23:05.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | great :-P |
| 23:05.37 | Wizzup | busybox is the exact opposite of systemd, it's lean, minimal, clean. And as I said, you can build an entire distro with decent init system with it. |
| 23:05.52 | Wizzup | alpine linux is really just openrc+busybox+apk (their package tool) |
| 23:05.57 | Wizzup | it's amazingly fast and lean |
| 23:06.05 | *** part/#maemo L29Ah (~L29Ah@31.173.83.177) |
| 23:06.08 | Wizzup | their networking scripts are at least as decent as debian ones |
| 23:06.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | a bag of bugs |
| 23:06.32 | Wizzup | smh |
| 23:09.33 | sixwheeledbeast^ | So if busybox can be updated it should be done via CSSU? Seen as it's a system package in the SSU repo |
| 23:10.13 | Wizzup | maybe, but I'm not sure what you'd gain. |
| 23:10.18 | *** join/#maemo L29Ah (~L29Ah@31.173.83.177) |
| 23:10.29 | Wizzup | You'd have to check if it still supports such old kernels (likely) |
| 23:10.47 | Wizzup | can probably compile it statically, too |
| 23:11.03 | sixwheeledbeast^ | well sleep to decimal places for starters. I assumed you ran the above on an N900? |
| 23:11.07 | Wizzup | in fact, I have a armv7 static busybox here on my laptop |
| 23:11.16 | Wizzup | I will scp it to my n900 and see |
| 23:12.46 | Wizzup | oh, it's a PIE |
| 23:12.52 | Wizzup | doubt the n900 can handle PIE :p |
| 23:12.57 | Wizzup | the n900 kernel* |
| 23:13.03 | *** part/#maemo L29Ah (~L29Ah@31.173.83.177) |
| 23:13.15 | Wizzup | herp. |
| 23:13.20 | Wizzup | I copied the powerpc binary. |
| 23:13.22 | Wizzup | go me. |
| 23:14.04 | Wizzup | Nokia-N900:~# ./bb --help |
| 23:14.05 | Wizzup | FATAL: kernel too old |
| 23:14.05 | Wizzup | Segmentation fault |
| 23:14.06 | Wizzup | boom |
| 23:14.10 | Wizzup | toldya |
| 23:14.33 | Wizzup | software needs to stay in sync ;) |
| 23:16.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast^: please sonsider that all scripts are tested against exactly this version of busybox with all its bugs |
| 23:16.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's a busybox-power which everybody interested can install instead or on top of the system busybox |
| 23:17.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | users rendered their system fcked up simply by defining bash instead busybox as user user's default shell |
| 23:18.44 | sixwheeledbeast^ | The latest version has allsorts of extra utils as standard. There's also a size question too. |
| 23:29.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | you're aware that when you use busybox with anything not-busybox as shell, the binaries your system needs to load for each command are way larger than what they would be in genuine decent unix toolbox? Since each time the multi-purpose huge busybox binary needs to get loaded and started when your shell calls $whatever in stat, ls, dir, date, `busybox --help` |
| 23:32.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | I just might mention that e.g. jolla/mer decided against busybox and for a 'normal' sheel afaik, after long pondering |
| 23:33.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | shell* plus gnu utils |
| 23:34.20 | *** join/#maemo sleepee (~sleepee@24.55.74.192) |
| 23:49.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.ubuntu.com/25166165 |
| 23:57.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | and http://paste.ubuntu.com/25166208 |