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| 00:20.52 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | "firmware" see ~lf ~tabletsdev ~combined ~emmc ~flasher sdk: ~sb | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |
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| 04:38.18 | sicelo | software based wifi ap - hostapd? |
| 04:47.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | BUG!! entropy runs dry in maemo5 (internet over WLAN, ssh session established). Though poolsize is 4096, it lingers at 177 and drops from 235 to 177 within minutes |
| 04:47.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | damn! 133 |
| 04:49.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | though this isn't a problem per se it may have security implications. But particularly weird is what actually drains it |
| 04:50.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | processes actually doing blocking read from /dev/random may freeze/lag |
| 04:52.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | suggested measures: find (and fix) the process draining entropy pool. There should be no need for random numbers in normal idle system, IP stack should use its own less valuable source of entropy for sequence numbers etc. |
| 04:58.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | run a process that monitors and - when needed - fills entropy pool from "unusual" sources like the used internet connection itself. E.G from a `iwlist scan` |
| 05:03.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | other possible sources of entropy: bq27200 battery voltage, current; audio sampling from microphone; audio sampling from FM-RX(!) white noise when tuned to no station; accelerometer (poor); ALS (poor, low bitcount). All of the aforementioned only lower significant few bits |
| 05:05.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | the entropy-generating `ls /*` is probably a very poor quality entropy source, given the lack of any mechanical components or quantum effects involved in the whole process |
| 05:08.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually this might be one source of hangs in ssh sessions and generally IP traffic |
| 05:15.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.ubuntu.com/25094143 |
| 05:15.46 | Maxdamantus | Suggested measures: ln -sf /dev/{u,}random |
| 05:16.16 | Maxdamantus | Because random is practically never useful. |
| 05:23.28 | Maxdamantus | I'm pretty sure ssh won't use /dev/random btw |
| 05:23.31 | Maxdamantus | ssh-keygen might. |
| 05:25.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: ^^^ what do you think? |
| 05:27.50 | Maxdamantus | If only Linux had some sort of CSPRNG that people could read the output of but not the state. |
| 05:32.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems I fail to find a way to add to available entropy in /dev/(u)random |
| 05:36.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | this is expected according to https://linux.die.net/man/4/random but it's pretty annoying nevertheless. Could we patch the device drover so it offer some writable node in /proc or /sys to actually *add* to the available entropy pool? http://paste.ubuntu.com/25094214 |
| 05:37.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | also note that `iwlist scan` seems to block the WLAN for a short (0.5s?) period by itself, during which no data traffic is possible |
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| 06:19.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | OHMY |
| 06:19.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# lsof |grep random |
| 06:19.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | csd 804 root 9r CHR 1,9 1757 /dev/urandom |
| 06:19.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | telepathy 2010 user 9r CHR 1,9 1757 /dev/urandom |
| 06:19.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | browserd 2712 user 12r CHR 1,9 1757 /dev/urandom |
| 06:19.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | browserd 4145 user 12r CHR 1,9 1757 /dev/urandom |
| 06:24.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://github.com/postmarketOS/pmbootstrap/wiki/nokia-rx51-(Nokia-N900) |
| 06:26.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>The first non-Android device! It comes with a hardware keyboard, so one can type in the full disk encryption password directly. It uses pali's 4.6 kernel, which is relatively close to mainline already.<< |
| 06:28.49 | KotCzarny | it might be a bit too much of tinfoil hat, but maybe nokia got crushed by international evil forces for trying to make linux on phones happen |
| 07:02.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://ollieparanoid.github.io/post/security-warning/ to cure your tinfoil hat feelings |
| 07:03.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>That can be used to turn your device silently into a surveillance device, because these components have direct access to your device's RAM (via DMA)<< not on N900 |
| 07:04.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | at least as far as anybody knows. And for sure not on Neo900 ;-) |
| 07:13.04 | hurrian | One benefit of having a USB^H^H^H HSI modem ;) |
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| 07:16.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 07:17.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | I couldn't resist editing the nokia-rx51-(Nokia-N900) wiki page ;-D |
| 07:18.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | FOSS radio stack, the most common pipe dream |
| 07:19.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | will *never* happen |
| 07:19.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | and even if id would, I wouldn't dare using it |
| 07:19.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | it* |
| 07:19.53 | hurrian | an open s/w interface to the baseband and AP-managed access is enough though :D |
| 07:20.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 07:22.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | I regret not having bookmarked any of those stories about US citizens sentenced to unspeakable 6 digit fines for using non-certified RF transmitter equipment |
| 07:23.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | like, USD300,000 plus some time in jail iirc |
| 07:23.42 | hurrian | guess that was why having a SDR module embedded in the Neo900 wasn't a design goal? :p |
| 07:23.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 07:24.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | SDR is greedy and expensive |
| 07:24.32 | hurrian | yeah, the sheer power and RF board routing requirements would be crazy |
| 07:24.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | and we actually have sort of SDR, for NFC |
| 07:24.51 | hurrian | but then again, so would a phone with a software defined baseband |
| 07:26.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, it's not _really_ SDR, it just has a MCU for protocols |
| 07:26.23 | hurrian | the Neo900 has NFC? |
| 07:26.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes? |
| 07:27.12 | hurrian | cool, didn't know that. guessing some modification to the back cover would be required? |
| 07:27.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://neo900.org/stuff/papers/nfc-draft.pdf |
| 07:28.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, probably. That's why we don't deliver an antenna with it per default |
| 07:28.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | or, we still need to evaluate which antenna we might use |
| 07:29.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | if we're extremely lucky, a flex foil PCB antenna will do |
| 07:29.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | that wouldn't need any massive modificarions to battery lid |
| 07:30.30 | hurrian | my guess is reuse of one of those wireless charging receiver+NFC coils for Android (usually Samsung) phones |
| 07:30.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 07:30.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | that sort of stuff |
| 07:31.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's RF. so voodoo, so only possible to test in real device |
| 07:31.45 | hurrian | and maybe bring two pogo pins through the back case of the N900, hoping they get close enough to the pads of said wireless charger pad |
| 07:31.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | umm |
| 07:32.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://neo900.org/stuff/papers/hb.pdf |
| 07:32.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | NFC_GND, NFC_ANT |
| 07:33.12 | hurrian | yep, something like that |
| 07:34.25 | hurrian | imagine how much fun could be had though given a few hundred thousand USD more in tooling (e.g. for plastic molds) could go- 5/6 inch N900? |
| 07:34.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://neo900.org/stuff/papers/hb.pdf#10 >> 4.3 Mechanical coupling with battery cover<< |
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| 12:33.18 | sicelo | oh gosh ... our mobile operator does not isolate clients, ie i can connect to other phones if they have any running services |
| 12:33.33 | sicelo | surely that's wrong? |
| 12:44.58 | KotCzarny | money stealer |
| 12:45.45 | KotCzarny | unless you dont get charged for incoming packets |
| 12:45.57 | KotCzarny | which is unlikely ;) |
| 12:46.06 | KotCzarny | udp flood someone ;) |
| 12:57.58 | sicelo | you don't get charged |
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| 13:11.01 | Maxdamantus | "connect" as in just a normal TCP connection? |
| 13:11.31 | Maxdamantus | Presumably it should be the responsibility of the OS to not allow the ISP or anyone who happens to be on the internet to do bad things to it. |
| 13:12.17 | Maxdamantus | I imagine it would be unreasonable to make a phone OS that assumes it's always behind some NAT/firewall provided by the ISP. |
| 13:14.31 | Maxdamantus | I would also imagine the same set of "services" would generally be exposed over WiFi. |
| 13:16.06 | KotCzarny | i would be afraid about possible costs of not putting phone behind the nat |
| 13:22.19 | Maxdamantus | How would these "services" work behind a NAT anyway? |
| 13:24.12 | KotCzarny | stun |
| 13:39.25 | sicelo | connect normal tcp connection .. yes. i can ssh my n900 from ny laptop using usb dongle with same cellular operator |
| 14:06.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOL |
| 14:14.03 | sicelo | at least it doesn't charge anything |
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| 15:00.19 | sicelo | thebpower consumption though! |
| 15:00.37 | KotCzarny | run tcpdump on it? :) |
| 15:01.08 | sicelo | just tested ... running an 'htop' this way makes standby current draw to rise to 200mA with screen off |
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| 15:52.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | inbound pings and other shite can't get blocked, the modem _has_to_ send ack |
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| 15:53.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | the only way to stop is to disable the APN |
| 16:06.21 | sicelo | inbound pings are actually blackholed by default on n900on gprs0, but allowed on the other connections |
| 16:08.24 | sicelo | <PROTECTED> |
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| 16:23.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | inbound data package needs an ACK always, on GPRS OTA protocol, independent from TCP OR IP or whatever |
| 16:23.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | afaik |
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| 16:24.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | think of it as an ethernet through GPRS/UMTS tunnel |
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