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| 00:26.41 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | "firmware" see ~lf ~tabletsdev ~combined ~emmc ~flasher sdk: ~sb | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |
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| 06:59.44 | L29Ah | https://marc.info/?l=openbsd-tech&m=149902196520920&w=2 |
| 07:00.22 | KotCzarny | w00t? |
| 07:01.34 | L29Ah | followup to https://github.com/systemd/systemd/issues/6237 |
| 07:10.29 | bencoh | :D |
| 07:10.44 | dreamer | just read that one |
| 07:10.49 | dreamer | failure |
| 07:11.17 | KotCzarny | love the usual #not-a-bug response ;) |
| 07:11.48 | bencoh | "I question the simplicity of this patch due to the fact that it leaves no head room for further security-related regressions. Maybe more progressive over-engineering of the code is a better course of action." |
| 07:11.52 | bencoh | :)) |
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| 07:17.58 | Maxdamantus | > yeah, where's the dbus integration? |
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| 08:13.21 | xes | so... that crap of skype is still working? |
| 08:13.45 | bencoh | good question |
| 08:15.53 | xes | do we have any possibility to integrate into maemo accounts any libpurple "glue" to add new services? |
| 08:17.08 | bencoh | maemo uses telepathy |
| 08:17.18 | bencoh | you can glue purple plugins to telepathy using haze |
| 08:17.34 | sicelo | let me test skype. according to email they had sent me earlier it shouldn't |
| 08:17.50 | sicelo | xes: which services/protocols do you have in mind to add/gule? |
| 08:17.53 | sicelo | *glue |
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| 08:22.28 | xes | sicelo: well i'm used with bitlbee where you can add any libpurple service like: skypeweb/telegram/libsteam/matrix/facebook/hangouts... |
| 08:24.28 | Wizzup | wonder if those versions are even remotely compatible still |
| 08:26.02 | bencoh | telegram works with libpurple (someone patched it for maemo) |
| 08:26.35 | bencoh | I couldn't build hangout (libjson is too old) |
| 08:27.12 | bencoh | as for gluing it with telepathy I didn't succeed in using libtelegram with telepathy |
| 08:27.37 | sicelo | yes i know bitlbee :-) |
| 08:27.45 | sicelo | btw, skype logged in just fine |
| 08:28.52 | sicelo | voice call working too |
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| 08:29.05 | bencoh | wow |
| 08:29.07 | sicelo | yes telegram working on N900 via Pidgin |
| 08:33.54 | xes | but pidgin is a bit ...too fat. Have the possibility to add those services into maemo "native" account manager would ensure a nice perspective for the future |
| 08:35.31 | xes | anyway, yes. Skype is still working also on standard 4.3 linux version. But we can expect any suprise |
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| 08:38.12 | bencoh | xes: the thing is, the telepathy we're using is a bit ... old |
| 08:38.17 | bencoh | (as usual) |
| 08:38.46 | bencoh | and our telepathy client (rtcom-messaging-ui in this case) would lack quite a few features |
| 08:39.01 | bencoh | it can't display much apart from text (or ~html) afaict |
| 08:39.13 | Wizzup | presumably the frontend is gtk |
| 08:39.54 | bencoh | it's not just gtk |
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| 08:42.04 | sicelo | and we also don't support captchas or other 2FA mechanisms needed for adding new telegram account for example |
| 08:44.18 | bencoh | hmm |
| 08:44.30 | bencoh | last time I tried creating a telegram account using pidgin it worked |
| 08:44.40 | bencoh | that was ... 6 months ago I think |
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| 08:44.56 | bencoh | (it was a pain, but worked eventually) |
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| 08:45.24 | xes | bencoh: and do you think something could be tweaked to fit maemo? |
| 08:45.55 | bencoh | xes: you'd need to RE rtcom-messaging-ui first (and/or replace it with FOSS) |
| 08:46.31 | bencoh | as for telepathy being old, iirc newer telepathy versions require a newer glib |
| 08:46.41 | bencoh | (libglib) |
| 08:47.51 | bencoh | or go with pidgin, which isn't great, but it's not that bad |
| 08:48.08 | bencoh | pidgin for maemo has room for improvment, but it's usable |
| 08:48.25 | xes | bah...after every corner there is another wall to hit |
| 08:49.35 | Wizzup | less so when rebased on devuan :) |
| 08:49.40 | bencoh | xes: which is why the best course of action is probably rebasing on top of a modern distro (like the devuan port/rebase some guys are working on) |
| 08:52.13 | xes | bencoh: yes sure, but IM integration is a basic requirement for many and on maemo is working very well with supported protocols |
| 08:53.27 | bencoh | true |
| 09:00.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | L29Ah: What The Fuck?! Poettering analyzes parameter VALUES for syntactical correctness and when incorrect ignores the whole parameter??? that's so terribly fucked up logic |
| 09:00.54 | joga | http://i.imgur.com/nY9owbg.png |
| 09:01.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | HEHE nice one, alas almost true |
| 09:04.18 | L29Ah | yes |
| 09:05.17 | sicelo | bencoh: yes pidgin does work. i meant maemo's telepathy |
| 09:06.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | go figure! user=Ãtto (and user=otto<nbsp> ) are invalid PARAMETERS and thus silently ignored, while user=nonexistent results in the expected reject |
| 09:06.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | ignored user=666poettering results in user=root |
| 09:07.02 | Wizzup | I thought it resulted in uid=6 |
| 09:07.12 | bencoh | sicelo: ah, right |
| 09:07.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | nope, the whole parameter gets ignored and thus the unit file is run as default (aka root) |
| 09:08.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | at least that's what poettering claims it does and is intended behavior |
| 09:09.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | what pile of shit must have replaced your brain to come up with such a spec? |
| 09:10.33 | Wizzup | he probably just wrote the code and didn't think of it, and now seems it as desirable to save face |
| 09:10.40 | Wizzup | s/seems/sees/ |
| 09:10.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's even worse than "when there's no proper config, 9.9.9.9 is the default fallback" |
| 09:11.07 | bencoh | 8.8.8.8* |
| 09:11.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | 8.8.8.8 sorry |
| 09:12.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | same like "umask default is 777 everywhere, unless you explicitly restrict it further" in systemd |
| 09:13.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | those folks have no fucking clue about coding at large |
| 09:16.46 | KotCzarny | doc: i bet it's done on purpose, thought there is a saying 'never confuse malice with stupidity' |
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| 09:41.20 | sixwheeledbeast^ | Typical, blame everything else before you even consider you have a bug. |
| 09:41.48 | KotCzarny | and even then, say it's 'the policy and it's expected' |
| 09:42.39 | KotCzarny | some guy in other channel used that as an argument |
| 09:43.37 | sixwheeledbeast^ | I fail to see how that isn't one or even multiple issues rolled into one. |
| 09:57.11 | xes | bencoh: do you know if anyone has ever tried ktp-call-ui on maemo? |
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| 10:22.57 | TheKit | https://github.com/fremantle-gtk2/hildon-desktop/blob/gtk2-clutter-1.x/src/mb/hd-comp-mgr.h#L41 |
| 10:23.13 | TheKit | what's the best way to fix this in case X server is in portrait orientation? |
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| 10:59.30 | halftux | sicelo: for the compiled perl stuff to irssi deb you need to add into the debian/irssi.install file, following path: debian/tmp/usr/lib/perl |
| 11:01.15 | halftux | and not specifing configure parameter --with-perl-lib |
| 11:14.19 | sicelo | makes sense. did you test in SB? |
| 11:14.38 | sicelo | i'll try it later today |
| 11:19.39 | halftux | i tried in sb and now irssi.pm and others are included in deb |
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| 11:20.54 | sicelo | cool |
| 11:22.11 | sicelo | funny that building 0.8.17 years ago was way smoother when i did the wrong thing. doing right thing is harder :) |
| 11:24.35 | halftux | hehe yeah making right deb could blow your head |
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| 12:17.11 | bencoh | xes: I don't think anyone tried it, but who knows |
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| 16:19.54 | TheKit | when N900 is in portrait, does actual rotation happen in xrandr? |
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| 16:30.53 | freemangordon | TheKit: clutter, afaik |
| 16:36.20 | TheKit | I get ** (hildon-desktop:23474): WARNING **: CRTC does not support rotation (0x00000001 vs. 0x00000002) if I try to force portrait mode in code |
| 16:37.46 | freemangordon | on what device is that? |
| 16:38.40 | TheKit | just Xvnc on Android phone |
| 16:39.20 | TheKit | the problem is hildon-desktop won't display properly if screen width is greater than height (say 720x1280) |
| 16:39.27 | freemangordon | could it be that clutter is acting? |
| 16:39.50 | freemangordon | as h-d works through clutter_stage, iirc |
| 16:40.24 | freemangordon | hmm, wait, it could be something in matchbox |
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| 16:41.21 | TheKit | https://github.com/fremantle-gtk2/libmatchbox2/blob/master/matchbox/core/mb-window-manager.c#L575 |
| 16:41.47 | freemangordon | TheKit: hmm, right |
| 16:43.51 | freemangordon | TheKit: anyway, iirc h-d expects to be started in landscape, it misbehaves otherwise. Maybe a piece of code needs to be added that detects in what mode it is started |
| 16:47.34 | halftux | sicelo: I can confirm that my irssi build with dpkg-buildpackage has perl support. For the mouse/nickname script I needed to activate the nokia apps mirror and installing perl-modules |
| 16:53.59 | TheKit | freemangordon, I suppose it does something like this already for portrait lock: https://github.com/fremantle-gtk2/hildon-desktop/blob/master/src/main.c#L798 |
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| 17:34.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: ((h-d expects to be started in landscape)) makes sense, see N8x0/maemo4 |
| 17:35.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | maemo genuine mode always been landscape, I guess |
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| 17:37.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | in Pyra they had to add a hw-rotator chip into video interface, sunce nowadays it's seemingly impossible to find LCD displays that work (scan) in portrait mode |
| 17:40.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | and it's one of the most bewildering facts that even allegedly versatile video cards like the OMAP embedded stuff seem to have no scanning mode other than top left to right progressive or maybe interlaced down |
| 17:46.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | you'd think a decent videoram scanning hardware should consist of massively programmable counters that allow arbitrary address offsets after every pixel that got read out, plus at least 2 layers of pixelcounters that, when reaching zero, apply new settings (offset, skew) to that first level pixel counters after an arbitrary number of pixels, to scan next line or start next partial (interlaced) or full (progressive) screen scan |
| 17:47.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | Amiga's copper would have been up to that task, contemporary OMAP5 seems not to |
| 17:48.19 | KotCzarny | optimization at costs cutting vs hobbyist hardware |
| 17:48.33 | KotCzarny | can't compare :P |
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| 17:52.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | compare copperlist |
| 17:53.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Original_Chip_Set#Copper |
| 18:06.51 | TheKit | in GPD Win rotation is handled in software (portrait panel mounted into laptop-like shell) |
| 18:07.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | then otoh you could argue such address translation should get done while *writing* into the video ram, not while reading it out |
| 18:08.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | but ehrn doing it in write, you run into massive problems with DMA-like blits |
| 18:09.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/ehrn/when/ |
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| 18:13.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems like using any of those nifty gfx accelerators for that is the way to go, zhey can do 3D rendering so they should be well up to the task of transcoding / scrambling the addr sequence of pixels in videobuffer |
| 18:14.04 | xy2_ | is replacing N900 screen dangerous? |
| 18:14.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 18:14.12 | xy2_ | ty |
| 18:14.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | not at all |
| 18:14.20 | KotCzarny | if you do it during thunderstorm or in wool sweater, yes |
| 18:15.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | just take care of the flex riboon cable between display and keyboard part of device, the connector is very fragile |
| 18:15.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~flexcable |
| 18:15.36 | infobot | from memory, fixribbon is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1324171#post1324171 |
| 18:23.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | xy2_: what exactly do you want to replace? the LCD display, the touch panel aka digitizer, or the complete display incl slider mechanism? |
| 18:25.42 | xy2_ | DocScrutinizer05: the lcd display |
| 18:26.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok, please follow instructions of sixwheeledbeast^ in http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1324171#post1324171, then instead of replacing the ribbon you replace the LCD. See servicemanual for that |
| 18:26.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~l1_2 |
| 18:26.44 | infobot | well, l1_2 is http://pdadb.net/download/nokia_n900_rx-51_service_manual_l1-l2_v1_0.pdf |
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| 18:28.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | watch out with the connector at end of flex cale, don't bend it or pry with a sjarp or pinpoint tool. Use a credit card to pry it off the mainboard |
| 18:29.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/cale/cable/ |
| 18:29.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | don't bend sharp the cable itself either, it will break |
| 18:30.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | this easily happens when you pull away the display half from kbd half, so be very careful while disassembling |
| 18:32.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://pdadb.net/download/nokia_n900_rx-51_service_manual_l1-l2_v1_0.pdf picture 7 |
| 18:33.48 | xy2_ | ok |
| 18:34.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | from pic7 jump to pic 25 |
| 18:37.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | please report back about your results |
| 18:38.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | we only can learn from anything that went wrong. |
| 18:41.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | wonders if there's a factoid for... |
| 18:41.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~l3_4 |
| 18:42.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm nope |
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| 18:47.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmmm /home/jr/backup/lagrange-backup/www/vhosts/jr/maemo/_hidden/docs/hw/N900_RX-51_SM_L3_4.pdf |
| 18:48.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | sounds strangely similar to maemo.cloud-7.de/ |
| 18:48.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) |
| 18:50.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | DONT DARE to post full URLs anywhere, or stuff will vanish same minute, forever |
| 18:50.37 | KotCzarny | i think l3_4 is already available via google |
| 18:50.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | beware, there's a spider! |
| 18:50.37 | KotCzarny | and not from your host |
| 18:54.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | I found it a tad hard to spot the L3_4 on search engines nowadays |
| 18:54.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe my search fu is weak |
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| 18:55.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | the links I found pointed to "database error" etc |
| 18:55.32 | KotCzarny | maybe i should drop it on my home server and make it googlable |
| 19:00.26 | KotCzarny | google for Nokia_N900_SM_L12_L34_SCH.zip |
| 19:00.41 | KotCzarny | that's the pack i have |
| 19:00.59 | KotCzarny | it also has schematics included |
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| 19:04.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~ping |
| 19:04.47 | infobot | ~pong |
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| 19:17.21 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | "firmware" see ~lf ~tabletsdev ~combined ~emmc ~flasher sdk: ~sb | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |
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| 19:35.39 | sicelo | Vajb: irssi uploaded. should be available from devel sometime soon |
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| 19:36.28 | TheKit | hildon-desktop fails to render if height > width on start, even if portrait mode is forced through orientation lock or in code |
| 19:36.57 | TheKit | it probably has width >= height check somewhere, since say 720x720 works, but not 710x720 |
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| 21:38.35 | jrg | dug my n810 out |
| 21:38.35 | jrg | need to reinstall the fw |
| 21:38.36 | jrg | wonder if I can do this from macOS? |
| 21:38.36 | jrg | ~flasher |
| 21:38.36 | infobot | refer ~flashing; http://www.jedge.com/n810/flasher/maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz (also .exe!), or http://www.chakra-project.org/ccr/packages.php?ID=5027 or generally http://www.google.com/search?q=maemo_flasher-3.5_2.5.2.2.tar.gz. HARMattan(N9): https://aur.archlinux.org/packages/fl/flasher-harmattan/flasher-harmattan.tar.gz; list of filenames/md5sums: http://pastebin.com/sYKdNJSH, or http://galif.eu/nokia/ |
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| 21:40.33 | *** join/#maemo phlixi (~phlixi@ppp-46-244-140-185.dynamic.mnet-online.de) |
| 21:44.04 | Enrico_Menotti | jrg I don't know about n810, but I flashed my n900 from macOS. |
| 22:33.59 | *** join/#maemo infobot (~infobot@rikers.org) |
| 22:33.59 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | "firmware" see ~lf ~tabletsdev ~combined ~emmc ~flasher sdk: ~sb | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |
| 22:56.54 | *** join/#maemo Zungo (~AndChat@186.141.197.241) |
| 23:14.36 | *** join/#maemo infobot (~infobot@rikers.org) |
| 23:14.36 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | "firmware" see ~lf ~tabletsdev ~combined ~emmc ~flasher sdk: ~sb | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |
| 23:17.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | bencoh: afaik N810 charging is totally software driven |
| 23:17.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | so odds are a plain mainline debian won't fly |
| 23:19.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | jrg: when you're interested in specs then get your samsug S-8 or whatever |
| 23:19.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | but then please don't complain about obsolete or non-free repos |
| 23:20.21 | jrg | heh. just saying it's too bad the neo900 couldn't be a bit stronger. |
| 23:20.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | Neo900 is meant to run maemo6 on it, that imposes quite some restrictions to "the specs" |
| 23:20.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | maemo5, sorry typo |
| 23:21.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | we need to stick to OMAP3 for example |
| 23:21.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | and that's pretty much what defines the specs, we went as high as it gets with OMAP3 |
| 23:22.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you're in for specs, wait for Neo900's successor, the STEP2 |
| 23:24.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | the idea being that after community ported maemo5 to Neo900, they are up to the task to port it to a platform with better specs, like OMAP5 for example |
| 23:25.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | and a maybe 1280*800 display |
| 23:26.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | *maybe* even other ARM cores |
| 23:27.22 | *** join/#maemo cyphase (~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase) |
| 23:31.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | also there's a fundamental problem with this scale of hardware development, that goes along the line of "why didn't they use carbon fibre enforced concrete when they built the dime of cologne?" Unlike Nokia or Samsung we only may use chipsets that are freely available on the market incl documentation. While Nokia asks TI to build new chips to Nokia's specs and Nokia starts developing a device when the chip is still vaporware |
| 23:32.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/ dime / dome / |
| 23:35.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | then Nokia builds a few dozen millions of devices with that CPU chip and sells them for a few months, and only then TI *publishes* some more detailled specs about that CPU chip so projects like we could start *evaluating* *if* the chip would make sense to use for a device development |
| 23:36.58 | *** join/#maemo chainsawbike (~chainsawb@unaffiliated/chainsawbike) |
| 23:51.54 | jrg | all the bits of Maemo weren't open sourced? |
| 23:52.02 | jrg | what did they keep? |
