IRC log for #maemo on 20170419

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00:18.41*** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | "firmware" see ~lf ~tabletsdev ~combined ~emmc ~flasher sdk: ~sb | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet
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07:38.26NotKitWizzup, do you have ARM hildon-desktop packages?
07:48.43NotKitwonder if this can be interesting for Maemo UI - https://www.xda-developers.com/halium-is-an-open-source-project-working-towards-a-common-base-for-non-android-mobile-operating-systems/
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08:09.01bencohNotKit: could be interesting to ease "porting"
08:09.30bencoh(ie porting to android-powered devices)
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09:09.50WizzupNotKit: do they only have chat rooms, or also a website? The article doesn't seem to mention one
09:10.10WizzupNotKit: no arm packages yet, waiting on amprolla. Reason to do intel first is that 3d accel is not a total mess on intel.
09:10.51Zungoactually since its pc, 3d accel support is more broad :)
09:16.04WizzupWhen I said intel I meant amd64
09:16.21KotCzarnyjust say x86_64
09:16.22Wizzupbut essentially anything with decent PCI support works OK with 3d graphics, as you can plug in an amd card
09:16.31WizzupKotCzarny: that'd not be correct :)
09:16.43KotCzarnyasnt amd64 just that?
09:16.47KotCzarny*isnt
09:17.01KotCzarnyunless context is something else
09:17.58KotCzarnyx86-64 (also known as x64, x86_64 and AMD64) is the 64-bit version of the x86 instruction set
09:18.05KotCzarnyhttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64
09:18.39WizzupAMD64 was created as an alternative to the radically different IA-64 architecture, which was designed by Intel and Hewlett Packard. Originally announced in 1999[13] while a full specification became available in August 2000,[14] the AMD64 architecture was positioned by AMD from the beginning as an evolutionary way to add 64-bit computing capabilities to the existing x86 architecture, as opposed to Intel's
09:18.45Wizzupapproach of creating an entirely new 64-bit architecture with IA-64.
09:18.47WizzupThe first AMD64-based processor, the Opteron, was released in April 2003.
09:19.49KotCzarnyyes, but intel's 64bit x86 cpu joined it
09:20.18KotCzarnyThe original specification, created by AMD and released in 2000, has been implemented by AMD, Intel and VIA
09:20.31Wizzuphttps://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64#Industry_naming_conventions
09:20.47WizzupKotCzarny: it's still the name for it with all distros I use
09:20.54KotCzarnyyup
09:21.00Wizzupand since I wanted to refer to generic 64 bit x86, amd64 is the proper term
09:21.06KotCzarnyyup
09:21.09WizzupI didn't want to refer to intel-only computers
09:21.27KotCzarnybut people who dont know that could be confused by 'amd' part
09:21.41KotCzarnythat's why x86_64 or x64 is often used
09:22.35Wizzupbut ... nobody except the linux kernel and gcc :p
09:22.37Wizzups/but/by/
09:22.38Wizzupanyway
09:24.37KotCzarnyand linux kernel and gcc are quite hard core of almost all linux systems
09:24.52WizzupI'd like to interject for a moment
09:29.35DocScrutinizer05https://botbot.me/freenode/devuan/2017-03-02/?msg=81815088&page=2
09:47.25DocScrutinizer05Wizzup: x86 isn't intel specific, it's the canonical generic name for the IA. Intel64 would be intel specific
09:48.08Wizzup...
09:48.18WizzupIt's called amd64; I don't care if you think it's not sensible
09:48.49DocScrutinizer05yes, debian calls "it" that way
09:49.50Wizzupnot just debian. all distros out there except for ... dragonflybsd and some obscure linux ones
09:51.17DocScrutinizer05that's the way they call that build since it was originally done for AMD and later on worked for other manufacurers' CPUs as well. But the IA is x86
09:53.22DocScrutinizer05>>way to add 64-bit computing capabilities to the existing x86 architecture<<
09:54.48KotCzarnyia64 is itanium and compatible only with intel's itanium cpus
09:56.30KotCzarnyalso, doesnt gentoo use x86_64 ?
09:56.49KotCzarnysince it's relying on gcc so its more natural there
09:57.11WizzupKotCzarny: no, it uses amd64
09:57.33Wizzupbut guys ... big deal
09:58.12KotCzarnywell, they have 'amd64 (x86_64)' in their handbook
09:58.16KotCzarnyso they use both ;)
09:58.36WizzupIf you want to (un)keyword a package, you have to write ~amd64 verbatim
09:58.37KotCzarnystill, it doesnt matter much
09:59.01KotCzarnyjust saying that it might be confusing for noobs and requires some explanation
09:59.26KotCzarnyamd got themselves place forever in that part
10:00.30Wizzupthey deserve it.
10:00.31Wizzupbbl ;)
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11:08.42NeKitWizzup, as for website, not yet, http://halium.org/ has only placeholder
11:15.54Maxdamantuswell, IA-64 simply isn't x86_64/amd64
11:17.26Maxdamantusfwiw, Linux uses x86_64
11:17.49Maxdamantusand the gcc target is usually x86_64
11:18.09Maxdamantus(I suspect those are bound to each other)
11:18.56KotCzarnyyeah, by instruction set for example ;)
11:20.00Maxdamantus"the IA is x86" sounds wrong
11:20.26Maxdamantusafaik, "IA" refers to Itanium, which .. again, afaik, is pretty much independent of x86
11:20.27KotCzarnyit is wrong
11:21.02warfareI think "IA" here refers to "Instruction Architecture" like m68k, armv7, etc.
11:21.10MaxdamantusOh.
11:21.12WizzupMaxdamantus: 11:20 < Wizzup> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X86-64#Industry_naming_conventions
11:21.54Maxdamantusanyway, as long as noone calls it "x64" I don't mind.
11:22.09warfareMS does ;)
11:22.15MaxdamantusI know.
11:22.50KotCzarny;)
11:25.37Wizzupwarfare: they call it amd64
11:25.52Maxdamantus"instruction architecture" doesn't seem to be a common term.
11:26.00WizzupMicrosoft Windows's x64 versions use the AMD64 moniker internally to designate various components which use or are compatible with this architecture. For example, the environment variable PROCESSOR_ARCHITECTURE is assigned the value "AMD64" as opposed to "x86" in 32-bit versions, and the system directory on a Windows x64 Edition installation CD-ROM is named "AMD64", in contrast to "i386" in 32-bit
11:26.06Wizzupversions.[80]
11:26.18Maxdamantus"IA" in "IA-64" seems to just mean "Itanium architecture"
11:26.46Maxdamantus(there's of course the common acronym "ISA" though)
11:27.42warfareI might just have mixed this up :)
11:29.16Maxdamantusalso, even though debian calls it amd64 in its packages, I think it uses "x86-64" in the filesystem.
11:29.45Maxdamantuseg, I think it has some /lib/linux-x86-64 or something directory.
11:29.56jon_yvendor neutral pronouns :)
11:30.21WizzupMaxdamantus: that is per binutils/gcc more than choice
11:30.28Maxdamantus/lib/x86_64-linux-gnu
11:30.36Wizzupthat is the gcc tuple name, isn't that obvious?
11:30.56Maxdamantusas for vendor neutrality, as Wizzup's link said, AMD called it "x86-64"
11:31.55jon_yUEFI calls it x64
11:32.09jon_yBOOTX64.EFI as defined in the specs
11:32.09Wizzupchecks the channel name and seems #maemo, not #pedants
11:32.12Wizzupshrugs
11:32.17Wizzups/seems/sees/
11:32.18jon_y:)
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11:33.15KotCzarnyit's irc, which has 'internet' as a first word
11:33.23KotCzarnywhich means, we have to be 100% correct!
11:34.00WizzupOr, be incapable of realising that we all agree in the first place, and instead argue on forever about meaningless things
11:34.28bencoh:) (or rather :( in that specific case)
11:35.19bencohWizzup: regarding halium, the article mentions #halium@freenode, halium on telegram, and #halium:matrix.org)
11:35.36WizzupYeah; exactly, but no website to quickly get an idea of what they'll do
11:37.16warfarehttps://xkcd.com/386/ (what a fitting number)
11:38.08bencoh:]
11:40.41bencohhttps://lists.sailfishos.org/pipermail/devel/2017-April/007842.html "Currently this project idea is codenamed Halium. Overall idea for the project is
11:40.44bencohdrafted at the https://tinyurl.com/halium"
11:40.53bencohbut this tinyurl doesn't seem to work :/
11:41.15bencohah nevermind, it does work without trailing ,
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14:49.51MetalGearSolid<PROTECTED>
14:55.14sicelo:)
15:12.33Vajbumm is there someone still bouncing in and out?
15:13.36bencohI suppose so, I decided to ignore his join/part/quit
15:14.02KotCzarnynope
15:14.05KotCzarnyit stopped
15:15.03Vajbi ignore all part/join/quits
15:15.23Vajbvery convenient in a big silent channel
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15:52.32bencohhmm, I wonder if anyone tried https://github.com/mozilla/webrtc-standalone
15:52.41bencohor https://www.openwebrtc.org/
15:53.20bencohI suppose that could be used with webrtc-powered A/V call services
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16:18.34bencohmeh, openwebrtc needs gstreamer-1.0 ...
16:18.59bencohso this would be unusable on n900, unless we decide to port libgstdsp to gstreamer-1.x
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18:54.06freemangordonbencoh: shouldn;t be that hard
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19:20.30bencohfreemangordon: maybe, I never seriously compared both APIs
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19:46.57ZungoVajb: there was, he fixed his issue
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19:52.02VajbZungo: yup. I saw it from the logs :)
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