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| 00:18.59 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | "firmware" see ~lf ~tabletsdev ~combined ~emmc ~flasher sdk: ~sb | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |
| 00:39.55 | Maxdamantus | Maemo does it at the HIM level. |
| 00:40.11 | Maxdamantus | (the sticky keys mechanism) |
| 00:40.26 | Maxdamantus | HIM = hildon-input-method |
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| 07:08.44 | sicelo | i thought pagurus was going to test his irc stuff elesewhere ... |
| 07:09.02 | KotCzarny | is he even alive? |
| 07:27.09 | sicelo | you mean online now? no |
| 07:27.26 | sicelo | but i think yesterday he promised something to that effect |
| 07:45.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | again spam? |
| 07:45.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | holler if you want sth getting fone about it, I don't see such stuff |
| 07:46.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/fone/done/ |
| 07:48.36 | KotCzarny | it seems to got fixed, for now |
| 08:01.09 | *** part/#maemo L29Ah (~L29Ah@cl-154.led-01.ru.sixxs.net) |
| 08:04.33 | sicelo | 01:11 < DocScrutinizer05> it kist lacks to show recent state, though that had been very very easy via indicator LED |
| 08:04.36 | sicelo | 01:11 < DocScrutinizer05> just* |
| 08:05.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | so? |
| 08:05.09 | sicelo | possibly deemed unnecessary as Maemo resets that sticky state as son as another program comes to the foreground |
| 08:05.14 | sicelo | so it's not global |
| 08:05.23 | sicelo | (as soon as ... ) |
| 08:06.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, that's both puzzling and a flawed design, and doesn't really jelp with making lock state more clear |
| 08:06.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, Nokia thought that notifier banner was sufficient |
| 08:07.05 | sicelo | it's only sticky while you're actually in the program you 'stickied' in .. so you know what you did :) |
| 08:07.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | but that notifier only shows up for like 2 seconds |
| 08:07.25 | KotCzarny | led backlight under sticky keys would be sweet |
| 08:07.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | shit no! |
| 08:08.09 | sicelo | KotCzarny: perhaps neo900 should have it ;) |
| 08:08.19 | KotCzarny | who knows? |
| 08:08.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | same rationale applied to dialer would result in "why display the number you're typing, you know what you're doing" |
| 08:08.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | sicelo: have waht? |
| 08:08.57 | sicelo | < KotCzarny> led backlight under sticky keys would be sweet |
| 08:08.59 | sicelo | ^^ |
| 08:09.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | Neo900 is planned with 3color backlight and 3 monocrome indicator LEDs next to the leftmost keys |
| 08:10.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd probably prefer backlight switching from white to orange on capslock and from white to blue on Fn |
| 08:11.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | but yeah, we will try to employ one or 2 of the indicator LEDs left of keyboard for that |
| 08:11.26 | sicelo | (personally i rarely, if ever, look at the state of my Caps Lock indicator on computer/laptop ... just saying) |
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| 08:13.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | it particularly sucks when you accidentally locked shift. You notice one char UC, then you wonder if it was sticky and thus reset or it's locked. So you type a second char just to check. Or you press shit again, just to learn it been sticky and you made another sticky |
| 08:14.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | or you press shift as long as notifier shows up, and then once more >:-( |
| 08:15.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | whatever you do, it's an annoyance |
| 08:17.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | and God beware you're facing this situation in stuff similar to NM, where one keypress causes an action you can't revert, and there are UC and lc keys with different meaning |
| 08:17.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | BM* |
| 08:18.16 | sicelo | i don't think sticky keys work there, isn't it? |
| 08:18.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | in BM not |
| 08:18.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | but that's because there's no system at all at that point |
| 08:19.13 | sicelo | yes |
| 08:19.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | though I didn't test, maybe it does (when it's getting handled in kernel kbd driver) |
| 08:23.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((i rarely, if ever, look at the state of my Caps Lock)) you also rarely press shift twice to emulate capslock on your PC, right? |
| 08:25.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | call my old and senile nut I happened to press shift, then release it since I started to wonder if I _really_ wanted to type that char (for whatever reason, be it wording or the door ringing), then a few seconds or minutes later I press shift again, plus a char, then on next char I start swearing |
| 08:27.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | if any state in a computer is sticky, you need feedback about what's the current state. If it's a sticky state in a HID, you need feedback directly on the HID and constantly |
| 08:30.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | you won't prolly find a single keyboard whit capslock, scroll lock, numlock, and no LEDs for showing the state. Unless it's one of those age old keyboards that actually have mechanical toggle pushbuttons that "stay pressed" mechanically and visibly until you push them again |
| 08:35.27 | KotCzarny | onscreen-ontop-sticky display could work too (for some people, so definitely as an option) |
| 08:35.58 | Maxdamantus | only sticky thing I use on a normal computer is numlock .. sometimes use mouse buttons and need to have it in some state for that. |
| 08:36.28 | Maxdamantus | can't remember which state does which, I just press numlock until it works the way I want. |
| 08:36.44 | Maxdamantus | capslock is instead mapped to F13, and dunno what scrolllock does. |
| 08:39.02 | Maxdamantus | Interesting. Apparently scroll lock freezes console output in Linux. Good to know. |
| 08:39.20 | Maxdamantus | Presumably at a lower level than something like ctrl-s |
| 08:39.33 | Maxdamantus | oh wait, it's just another way of writing ctrl-s |
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| 08:41.14 | jonwil | hi |
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| 08:53.43 | KotCzarny | lol, that's why it's called SCROLL LOCK |
| 08:53.44 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 09:17.10 | Maxdamantus | but ctrl-s doesn't exactly lock the scroll. |
| 09:17.25 | Maxdamantus | it blocks any output. |
| 09:21.57 | KotCzarny | it's from the times when screens were the teletypes |
| 09:22.08 | KotCzarny | and virtual consoles emulate it |
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| 10:01.54 | merlin1991 | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:02.12 | merlin1991 | *headdesks* |
| 10:04.14 | KotCzarny | merlin1991: some chinese and laptop kb ;) |
| 10:04.45 | KotCzarny | hp/lenovo they suck at it and removed useful indicators (*locks and hdd activity often) |
| 10:05.24 | merlin1991 | The acer still has the hdd led, but no lock leds :/ |
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| 10:19.45 | CcxWrk | What is the current way to get stock N900 install up to date? |
| 10:19.55 | kerio | CSSU |
| 10:20.03 | kerio | https://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU |
| 10:20.27 | CcxWrk | Thanks |
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| 11:09.38 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: my SIP over vpn thing is unreliable if i don't redirect the whole internet through the VPN :( |
| 11:11.27 | KotCzarny | then do that? problem solved |
| 11:12.43 | kerio | nah i should set up asterisk |
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| 12:16.31 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: my brain hurts :< |
| 12:17.02 | KotCzarny | have you tried turning your brain off and on again? |
| 12:22.41 | kerio | this shit is worse than sendmail |
| 13:09.19 | xes | kerio: have tried to fix the account ip with mc-toll? have you enable sip/rtp conntracking into your home router? |
| 13:09.36 | xes | *mc-tool |
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| 15:10.37 | Enrico_Menotti | Ok, I have Debian running on the n900, keyboard quite fine, and wifi access. Also ssh. I'd like to adjust a couple of things, and then I'll move towards Devuan. |
| 15:13.03 | Enrico_Menotti | 1. I have been able to customise the keyboard by editing the symbols file (<xkbroot>/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51) and running setupcon. But before that I had to remove the cached files in /etc/console-setup. If I run setupcon with the --save option, these files are recreated. But the system somehow doesn't use them - setupcon keeps on creating a new tmp file and loading that. |
| 15:15.59 | Enrico_Menotti | 2. The wireless driver seems to generate a new mac address in a random way at each boot. So the system keeps on creating new wlan interfaces at each reboot. I'd like to have the wlan named wlan0 at each boot. I think I have to edit /etc/udev/rules.d/70-persistent-net.rules. But so far the only way I have found to reference the wireless device is via the mac address. How may I reference it in a unique way? |
| 15:17.34 | Enrico_Menotti | 3. I tried to install usbutils and run lsusb, but that fails. From some debugging, I found out that the system doesn't find usbfs. Is it possible that Pali's rx51_defconfig file does not enable usb support? |
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| 15:47.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's all very much OT for maemo |
| 15:48.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | IOW in maemo we either don't have the problem or we have a working solution, for all your "debian problem" points you listed so far |
| 15:52.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~h-e-n |
| 15:52.33 | infobot | i guess hen is hostmode-easy-now, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232, or see ~hostmode |
| 15:52.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~hostmode |
| 15:52.45 | infobot | hostmode is probably http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=652330, or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkCDyUO0sKQ, or see ~hostmode-powered |
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| 16:16.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | IOW with a stock kernel you're *always* out of luck with USBhostmode on N900 |
| 16:17.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | I wasted over a year into solving this issue |
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| 16:32.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=643577 |
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| 19:54.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qecPQ0FB-64 |
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| 20:03.44 | sicelo | context? |
| 20:07.42 | sicelo | haha that's a crazy thing |
| 20:10.36 | Maxdamantus | Enrico_Menotti: if you're just trying to use the device as a USB gadget, you'd load one of the g_ modules. |
| 20:11.19 | Maxdamantus | Enrico_Menotti: a USB device is traditionally meant to be a gadget or a host, not both. |
| 20:11.50 | Maxdamantus | though N900's controller happens to be able to work as both. |
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| 21:17.41 | Enrico_Menotti | Thank you for the answers. I didn't realise the difference between gadget and host. Anyway, in order to get details about the usb interface, is lsusb the right command, or this command is only useful in host mode? |
| 21:22.00 | Enrico_Menotti | In any case, at this point, in a few days, I will move to Devuan. I hope this will not be off topic anymore, and maybe it could be of interest to others, not only an exercise for me to learn how to deal with different OS's. |
| 21:50.37 | Maxdamantus | `lsusb` is for USB hosts |
| 21:51.02 | Maxdamantus | since it shows information based on device descriptors of connected devices |