IRC log for #maemo on 20170412

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00:19.24*** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | "firmware" see ~lf ~tabletsdev ~combined ~emmc ~flasher sdk: ~sb | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet
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08:57.50KotCzarnyhttps://mm.gravedo.de/blog/posts/2017-04-10-introducing-anbox/
08:57.59KotCzarnyi wonder if n900 could use it
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09:14.34bencohKotCzarny: porting all the "recent" android kernel features to the old maemo kernel would probably be a pain
09:14.47KotCzarnywhat about pali's kernel?
09:15.14bencohand I'd feel for the guy trying to build anbox for maemo using https://snapcraft.io/
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09:16.02bencohKotCzarny: pali's tree is following mainline closely, so it wouldn't be too hard to merge back from recent kernels
09:16.34bencohit's actually what people do when they merge android patches back to mainline
09:16.55bencoh(for the parts that are not already merged, or in staging/)
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09:47.35jonwilI am surprised no-one has made something that lets you run Android apps on Linux in the same way WINE lets you run Windows apps on Linux. Replace the low-level Android specific libraries (including GPU drivers etc) with mapping libraries that map them to standard linux equivalents. Anything that isn't too specifically tied to the unique features of Android or specific hardware could be...
09:47.37jonwil...ported over to Linux.
09:48.03jonwilOr maybe what I talk about exists and I just haven't heard of it.
09:48.28KotCzarnyjonwil: that anbox seems doing something similar
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09:54.04sicelothere was also something a while ago doing same thing .. shashlik i think
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15:34.42DocScrutinizer05hi rhombus
15:34.49rhombusHi DocScrutinizer05
15:35.29DocScrutinizer05for a start with maemo, let me ask infobot for a few factoids
15:35.40DocScrutinizer05~flashing
15:35.40infobotmethinks maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware, or - on linux PC - download&extract http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz, cd into it, do sudo ./flash-it-all.sh; or see ~flashing-cmdline, or see ~lazyflashing
15:35.50DocScrutinizer05~lazyflashing
15:35.50infobotlazyflashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#The_Lazy_Approach
15:36.02DocScrutinizer05~cssu
15:36.02infobotcssu is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU, or (Community Seamless Software Update)
15:36.13DocScrutinizer05~jr-repos
15:36.18DocScrutinizer05~jrrepos
15:36.18infobotwell, jrrepos is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/et_al/HAM-catalogs/
15:36.39DocScrutinizer05the latter to compensate for the Nokia repos that went down
15:37.00rhombuswow, neat
15:37.08DocScrutinizer05for experienced linuxers:
15:37.17DocScrutinizer05~jrtools
15:37.17infobotfrom memory, jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools
15:38.09DocScrutinizer05alas there's no up-to-date concise "maemo beginners howto"
15:38.39rhombusno worries, I should be able to manage
15:38.44DocScrutinizer05:-)
15:38.53rhombusbrb
15:39.08DocScrutinizer05if *any* qustions arise, please don't hesitate to ask here.
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15:41.51rhombusback
15:41.53rhombusok
15:41.56rhombusthat's good to know
15:43.16rhombusDocScrutinizer05: Damn, the battery on my N900 is almost empty again. After two days. Is that normal? This battery is new.
15:44.08DocScrutinizer05well, if it was powered up all the time (and maybe not even CSSU patches installed) then yes, 2 days uptime is what you can expect
15:45.24DocScrutinizer05when it supposedly been powered down (not just locked screen) then the battery should not see significant drain during months
15:46.50DocScrutinizer05with CSSU and disabling a few hogs like skype and don't know OM-weather and the like, your uptime should be >7 days when you either didn't enable WLAN or are associated to a good WLAN AP
15:47.08DocScrutinizer05WLAN search for APs is known to be a battery hog
15:48.21DocScrutinizer05that's why in network settings you can chose the period time for WLAN searching for Access Points
15:48.22rhombusDocScrutinizer05: Ah, ok. It was on two days, WLAN is activated and I haven't made any other changes to the configuration, so I guess that explains it.
15:48.34DocScrutinizer05yes
15:49.10rhombusDocScrutinizer05: My search interval is 10 minutes
15:49.10DocScrutinizer05particularly when it wasn't logged in to a WLAN AP, or that AP doesn't support PowerSavingsMode
15:50.25DocScrutinizer05it's dramatic. Seach for APs uses like a few hundret times more power than being logged in. So when device does a 1 minute search every 10 minutes...
15:51.29rhombusDocScrutinizer05: ouch -- 1 minute?
15:51.40rhombusSo, I should choose a longer interval
15:52.02DocScrutinizer05yes, it needs to scan all channels and wait for all 'visible' stations to send their beacon and ID
15:52.24Enrico_MenottiDocScrutinizer05 I'm reading your conversation with rhombus . I have a question. Does jrrepos contain also the original Maemo images? And Nokia's flasher? Up to now, I've been using ones from a mirror found at Archive.org.
15:52.42rhombusDocScrutinizer05: Can I just manually tell it to look for a WLAN?
15:53.03DocScrutinizer05erstazi: no, this is just for the maemo core system packages
15:53.16DocScrutinizer05Enrico_Menotti: ^^^ sorry#
15:53.28DocScrutinizer05rhombus: sure
15:53.39DocScrutinizer05set period to "never"
15:53.47rhombusDocScrutinizer05: How do I do that if an interval has been set?
15:53.55DocScrutinizer05^^^
15:54.49rhombusWhat I mean is, if the interval has been set, it won't check between intervals. But maybe I am in an area with WLAN and want to use it. How do I force a search?
15:54.50DocScrutinizer05wait, it's a tiny bit more 'complex'. Sth like "switch to WLAN if available: never"
15:54.56DocScrutinizer05checks
15:56.28DocScrutinizer05app settings -> internet connections -> "automatically connect: <no wlan>"
15:57.54DocScrutinizer05so choose either "always ask" or <your cellular internet access>
15:58.24DocScrutinizer05do not choose "WLAN" or "any connection"
15:58.39siceloyou don't force a check ... just open your Internet-using application and it will search (or just choose it in the connection dialog on status menu)
15:59.20DocScrutinizer05what sicelo said
16:00.09DocScrutinizer05click in status bar to open menu, click on "<your internet connection>" button. It opens a requester searching for all connections currently available
16:00.45DocScrutinizer05you can also shut down the existing connection in that dialog
16:01.41DocScrutinizer05iow the opening of that dialog forces a WLAN scan
16:02.03rhombusDocScrutinizer05: including WLAN, even if it is disabled in Internet connections?
16:02.17rhombusok
16:02.20DocScrutinizer05some apps might open the dialog for you when they need internet access
16:02.25DocScrutinizer05yes
16:02.27rhombusok
16:02.50DocScrutinizer05it's pretty convenient and easy&clear
16:02.52sicelovery simple, and intuitive, imo. :)
16:02.55siceloack
16:03.24DocScrutinizer05highfives sicelo :-)
16:04.41rhombuswhat's the right way to move the scroll bar that appears at the right side of the screen when the requester comes up?
16:04.55DocScrutinizer05but before you start learning to know and love your N900, make sure you had reflashed it to latest clean OS
16:05.07rhombusDocScrutinizer05: Ok, that will be my next project.
16:05.11DocScrutinizer05never use a OS pre-installed by somebody else
16:05.18rhombusDocScrutinizer05: Right!!!!!!!
16:05.21DocScrutinizer05~lazyflasjing
16:05.28DocScrutinizer05~lazyflashing
16:05.28infoboti heard lazyflashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#The_Lazy_Approach
16:05.35rhombusSo far I haven't sent anything really sensitive with this phone
16:05.36DocScrutinizer05I'm a tad fond of that
16:05.40rhombusok
16:06.12DocScrutinizer05lazyflashing is fun
16:06.22rhombusLooks simple
16:06.35DocScrutinizer05and really just one c&p to your linux PC terminal
16:07.04DocScrutinizer05(unless your OS doesn't have any support for 32bit anymore)
16:07.28rhombusDocScrutinizer05: why wouldn't it?
16:07.37DocScrutinizer05I tried to cope with that, but there are too many linux OS out there, with different pacjage managers etc
16:07.57rhombusI am pretty sure I still have 32-bit compatibility
16:08.08DocScrutinizer05well, lately more and more distros drop 32bit support
16:08.55rhombusHow can I test whether I have 32-bit support? (I'm running Gentoo, FWIW)
16:08.56DocScrutinizer05my lazyflasher tries to work around it, usinf LD_PRELOAD but that's a terrible botch
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16:09.28DocScrutinizer05you *might* need to manually install 32bit legacy libs
16:10.20DocScrutinizer05prolly should employ 0xffff flasher eventually, for lazyflasher
16:11.13DocScrutinizer05thanks to Pali we have that FOSS flasher alternative, and of course it will work with 54bit system
16:11.25DocScrutinizer0564*
16:11.45DocScrutinizer05but first try lazyflashing! :-)
16:12.09DocScrutinizer05odds are you already finished flashing while I still tried to explain :-D
16:12.50DocScrutinizer0519:12 - 19:05, 7 minutes. More than enough time to complete the lazyflashing procedure
16:13.02DocScrutinizer05;-)
16:15.11DocScrutinizer05bbl
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16:22.31rhombushaha
16:22.38rhombusI will have to do that when I am at home
16:22.42rhombusAt work at the moment
16:22.46rhombusand on that note...
16:23.13rhombusI must return to work -- but thanks for the tips and information! I'm looking forward to the new firmware :P
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17:04.51Enrico_MenottiI am a bit in a trouble with the keyboard (in Debian). I have been able to set up the rx51 keyboard by editing /etc/default/keyboard. I've set XKBMODEL="nokiarx51" and XKBLAYOUT="it". This allows Italian keys to be used. But I'd need some special characters: |, ~, escape, etc. I tried editing /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51, but nothing seems to change. I also don't understand where the nokiarx51 config
17:04.51Enrico_Menotti<PROTECTED>
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17:13.28DocScrutinizer05yes
17:14.01DocScrutinizer05not maemo specific and not even sovable in a maemo environment since your debian differs
17:16.05DocScrutinizer05in maemo you don't have special symbols on hw kbd, we have a special vkbd for that. so see "vi's awesome keyboard maopping"
17:16.24DocScrutinizer05I pointed you to that a few days ago already
17:17.46DocScrutinizer05https://wiki.maemo.org/Remapping_keyboard
17:18.36DocScrutinizer05http://wiki.maemo.org/Remapping_keyboard/user_vis_awesome_kbdmapping
17:18.39Enrico_MenottiYes, ok, I am looking at that. There I found /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51.
17:19.52DocScrutinizer05>>I use the english layout. All (useful) symbols have been added to the keyboard rendering the blue+ctrl menu redundant.<<
17:30.41DocScrutinizer05"rendering the blue+ctrl menu redundant" is exactly what you need since debian has no such vkbd menu on ctrl+blue
17:32.39DocScrutinizer05and you probably couldn't even get it easily since it's maemo specific prolly closed blob and very window manager dependent
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17:33.45Enrico_MenottiOk, no problem, I will manage some way to remap the keyboard. Thanks.
17:34.34DocScrutinizer05but honestly I still fail to understand the purpose of this "get debian on N900" execise, particularly when a exactly equivalent community effort right now is making a "Devuan on N900"
17:35.42DocScrutinizer05I mean there's a reason why the community effort is based on devuan, not debian
17:36.30DocScrutinizer05and your learning exercises could help the devuan effort instead of being wasted into debian
17:36.48Enrico_MenottiDocScrutinizer05 Ok, maybe I could switch to Devuan. In particular if in this way I could integrate a bit with the community. I am playing with Debian just because when I started with that I did not know anything about Devuan.
17:37.23DocScrutinizer05devuan is basically just debian sand systemd cancer
17:37.31DocScrutinizer05sans*
17:37.55DocScrutinizer05plus explicit partnership and support with maemo community
17:38.20Enrico_MenottiThe only reason why I'm insisting with Debian now is that I already installed it on my spare computer...
17:38.25Enrico_Menotti:)
17:39.23DocScrutinizer05migration to devuan is easy
17:39.32Enrico_MenottiHow to?
17:40.06DocScrutinizer05~#devuan migrate instructions
17:40.06infobot[#devuan migrate instructions] https://dev1galaxy.org/viewtopic.php?id=20
17:45.33Enrico_MenottiOk, thank you. I see these instructions are specific to Debian, so I'm ready for that. I will read them carefully and probably migrate in a few days. Just a question: is Devuan available without a GUI? (My old spare computer is slow and memoryless, and I think I don't need a GUI for my purposes.)
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17:57.32KotCzarnythink of devuan as 'debian with one package removed'
17:58.48KotCzarny(grossly simplified)
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19:40.34ZungoEnrico_Menotti: if debian is available for your computer, then devuan is likely to be too
19:40.53Zungo:)
19:40.56DocScrutinizer05and just today devuan rolls out RC
19:40.59Zungoa bit late but on well
19:41.05Zungocool
19:41.14Zungogood morning also(?)
19:41.24Zungoim not sure
19:41.38Enrico_MenottiZungo Yes, I have read the page with instructions on how to migrate. I will do that.
19:42.42Enrico_MenottiFor now, I'd like to try a few more things with Debian, just to learn. I'm still struggling with the keyboard. The std Italian one is working, but I'm unable to customise it. Strange.
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