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| 00:26.59 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | "firmware" see ~lf ~tabletsdev ~combined ~emmc ~flasher sdk: ~sb | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |
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| 09:21.06 | freemangordon | Pali: the more I look at maemo code, the less I wonder why it was not opened in its whole :( https://github.com/community-ssu/libhildonfm/issues/1 |
| 09:22.29 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 09:23.18 | freemangordon | please, somebody fix that and make a pull request, it should be easy |
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| 11:11.10 | ovaltine_ | hi all |
| 11:11.39 | ovaltine_ | i have a old n900, i wanted to know what repositories are people using these days |
| 11:12.13 | ovaltine_ | i was thinking since its been years that I have updated it, there must be some repos outdated or closed and maybe there r new ones that the community setup |
| 11:12.20 | ovaltine_ | so let me know thanks |
| 11:12.32 | KotCzarny | cssu most notably |
| 11:12.39 | KotCzarny | if you missed that |
| 11:12.48 | ovaltine_ | yes i missed |
| 11:12.51 | KotCzarny | Ässu |
| 11:12.54 | KotCzarny | ~cssu |
| 11:12.55 | infobot | from memory, cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU, or (Community Seamless Software Update) |
| 11:13.30 | ovaltine_ | also i am not using the cssu rom, i have the last nokia rom that they released that had some security bug fixed, dont know maybe it was related to ssl or what, many years back |
| 11:15.08 | KotCzarny | you definitely want cssu then |
| 11:15.24 | KotCzarny | as cssu is not a rom, but kind of security.debian.org repos |
| 11:20.13 | ovaltine_ | btw |
| 11:20.25 | ovaltine_ | who is paying for tmo to keep it hosted and all? |
| 11:20.35 | KotCzarny | maemo foundation |
| 11:20.35 | ovaltine_ | is it all community members? |
| 11:20.40 | KotCzarny | yup |
| 11:20.40 | ovaltine_ | ok |
| 11:20.44 | ovaltine_ | cool |
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| 11:29.04 | bencoh | you still need mirrors for the old nokia repositories though |
| 11:29.15 | bencoh | (since a few things still depend on those) |
| 11:29.57 | KotCzarny | bencoh, its explained in article |
| 11:30.13 | bencoh | oh? neat |
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| 12:39.26 | KotCzarny | miasma: point is, they could've done better for the same price, ie. better usb-sata chip and use box as a big radiator |
| 12:39.31 | KotCzarny | eh. echan. |
| 13:44.32 | Enrico_Menotti | Is there a way to get a verbose output from NOLO? |
| 13:45.27 | KotCzarny | yes, use debug uart |
| 13:46.36 | Enrico_Menotti | So I need some hardware... |
| 13:46.57 | KotCzarny | quick tip: it's not that easy to get proper hw |
| 13:47.33 | Enrico_Menotti | In fact, I was wondering whether there was some log file with NOLO's output. |
| 13:48.35 | KotCzarny | have some fun: https://wiki.maemo.org/Category:N900_Hardware |
| 13:49.13 | KotCzarny | https://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Hacking/serial_dump |
| 13:50.38 | Enrico_Menotti | Ok, so basically I think I can't do that (at least for the moment). |
| 13:51.31 | KotCzarny | yup |
| 13:53.49 | Enrico_Menotti | So let me tell you what I am doing (as usual, I'm experimenting). I'm trying to boot a standard Linux distribution. It's just a test. I have found that mainline kernel has some capabilities for the N900. I tried with the OMAP2plus conif file, and built the kernel. Now I'd try to upload it by Nokia's flasher (upload, not flash). I have been able to do that with Rescue OS's kernel. But no sign of life (with standard |
| 13:53.49 | Enrico_Menotti | <PROTECTED> |
| 13:54.14 | Enrico_Menotti | *config file |
| 13:54.51 | Enrico_Menotti | So I was thinking about NOLO's log to understand whether something was happening or not. |
| 13:54.54 | KotCzarny | see instructions on http://elinux.org/N900 |
| 13:55.07 | KotCzarny | if you missed something |
| 13:55.46 | Enrico_Menotti | I have read that page. Let me check again. |
| 13:56.04 | KotCzarny | see u-boot paragraph |
| 13:58.34 | Enrico_Menotti | Ok, it'd like to avoid using u-boot for the moment. I already installed it and in the end bricked the device (not caused by u-boot), and it's been a hard task to unbrick it. |
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| 13:58.56 | Enrico_Menotti | I'd like to use the flasher-3.5 as it is outlined in the instructions for Rescue OS. |
| 13:59.03 | Enrico_Menotti | (To upload and boot.) |
| 14:04.43 | Enrico_Menotti | Probably I'm missing the modules. But I'd like to understand whether the kernel is booting at all. |
| 14:31.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~tell ovaltine_ about lazyflashing |
| 14:32.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~tell ovaltine_ about BM |
| 14:32.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~tell ovaltine_ about jrrepos |
| 14:32.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~tell ovaltine_ about jrtools |
| 14:32.40 | KotCzarny | he doesnt want flashing, he wants to experiment |
| 14:36.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | Enrico_Menotti: ((it's been a hard task to unbrick it)) WHAT? |
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| 14:38.46 | Enrico_Menotti | Well, I was unable to reflash it after having installed u-boot. I don't give the cause to u-boot - I had messed up some file in Maemo's file system. But in any case, the flasher wasn't recognising the N900 at the usb port. |
| 14:39.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | in a chain x-y-z you played with y and nuked it and you found it a hard task to regain it using x (which it is evidently not), so you prefer to play with x now (NOLO) which you don't even know the mystery (coldflashing) you need to use for fixing it? |
| 14:40.03 | Enrico_Menotti | Cold flashing was not working anymore. |
| 14:40.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | bullshit |
| 14:40.21 | Enrico_Menotti | Now it's ok - this happened a few weeks ago. |
| 14:40.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | coldflashing was not needed in your case |
| 14:41.01 | Enrico_Menotti | It was my first trials with this device - I did not know what I was risking. |
| 14:41.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | and coldflashing is only brickable with a sledge hammer, it's in ROMBOOT |
| 14:42.18 | Enrico_Menotti | Ok, maybe cold flashing was working, but I could not flash the device with the usual chain eMMC image - FIASCO image. |
| 14:42.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | you did it wrong |
| 14:42.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~flashing |
| 14:42.56 | infobot | hmm... maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware, or - on linux PC - download&extract http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz, cd into it, do sudo ./flash-it-all.sh; or see ~flashing-cmdline, or see ~lazyflashing |
| 14:43.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | has it *ALL*, since ages |
| 14:43.19 | Enrico_Menotti | Maybe, but in the end, if I remember the details, I had to flash just the kernel. |
| 14:43.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, good luck. |
| 14:44.47 | Enrico_Menotti | In any case, now that's not so relevant anymore, since it's an issue solved. A couple of days ago I also reflashed the whole thing with stock eMMC and FIASCO image, and it's working properly. I followed the instructions on the page you linked right now. |
| 14:45.15 | Enrico_Menotti | (Including removing the battery in-between the two flashes.) |
| 14:45.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | it seems you're one of those curious users that are determined to do learning by try&error, not bothering about verifying the assumptions your experiments are based on |
| 14:47.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | for booting a kernel you need to provide a few environment items, often kernel commandline. make sure you understand how or even if at all you could adjust this in NOLO to match what your kernel needs |
| 14:48.13 | Enrico_Menotti | Well, the problem is not that I don't want to verify my assumptions. The problem is that I found a bit difficult to find a comprehensive documentation about what I was trying to do. Let me explain: at the beginning, I did not know about Maemo.org, neither about this channel on IRC. I just tried. Now I'm step by step checking what I do. |
| 14:48.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | hint: on OMAP3 kernel it seems it's ATAGS not kernel cmdline |
| 14:49.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | let me help you out a little bit maybe |
| 14:49.15 | Enrico_Menotti | Ok. |
| 14:49.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | the absolute basics: http://www.omappedia.org/wiki/Bootloader_Project |
| 14:50.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | on N900 Nokia called their version of uBoot "NOLO" |
| 14:51.18 | Enrico_Menotti | Ah, did not know it's a version of uBoot. I know NOLO is a bootloader, but I thought it was just developed by Nokia. |
| 14:51.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | the maemo implementation of uBoot by pali is a combined uBoot+kernel in one "package" that gets loaded by NOLO as if it was a kernel but executes a 2nd layer uBoot that can do all the awesome things a uBoot is meant to be able to do |
| 14:53.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~uboot |
| 14:53.02 | infobot | N900 uBoot is a siamese twin binary [uBoot+stockMaemoKernel] that resides in kernel NAND partition /dev/mtd3 aka "kernel". You can't uninstall it, rather you'll nuke it when you flash/install another kernel like stock maemo kernel or powerkernel. To start other than stock maemo kernel via uBoot, you have to provide the according kernel image files, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81613 |
| 14:53.32 | Enrico_Menotti | Ok, I already read something about this. |
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| 14:54.56 | Enrico_Menotti | Now for the moment I'd avoid flashing again u-Boot. I'd just want to understand how to put standard Linux kernel in a format suitable to be uploaded (not flashed) and booted by the flasher-3.5. |
| 14:56.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | maemo by default has kernel in "an own partition" (on NAND). Pali's maemo-uBoot either loads the stock kernel other siamese half it comes with, or you load kernel.bzimage whatever the name, which can live in maemo rootfs or on eMMC or uSD in a file |
| 14:57.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | to boot a kernel from NOLO you need special kernel patches aiui, to fix the atags/cmdline thing |
| 14:58.24 | Pali | uboot cannot load kernel image from maemo rootfs (nand, ubifs) due to huge size of code needed for red-black tree implementation |
| 14:58.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.ixquick.com/do/search?q=uboot+atags |
| 14:58.50 | Pali | so nand+ubifs is disabled for n900 uboot... as there is no more place in nand for it |
| 14:59.07 | Pali | and no special kernel patches are needed to boot directy from nolo |
| 14:59.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | hah, now we have an expert here! \o/ thanks Pali :-) |
| 15:00.35 | Enrico_Menotti | Pali As it is done in Rescue OS documentation, right? flasher-3.5 -b"<arguments>" |
| 15:06.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>put standard Linux kernel in a format suitable to be uploaded (not flashed)<< alternative kernels are not flashed, they are files in a filesystem and uBoot loads them like on your x86 arch pc |
| 15:08.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | so if your concern is about avoiding the flashing of kernels, you don't need to use the rather intricate RAM load from flasher |
| 15:11.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | see http://www.omappedia.org/wiki/Bootloader_Project, Pali's uBoot(+stock kernel) replaces the 'Kernel' in that scheme, allowing you to either boot the attached stock kernel OR boot alternative kernels and thus OS from kernel image files you provide on e.g. uSD |
| 15:11.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | uBoot is tested and works, no issues with that |
| 15:13.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | using RAMloaded initrd based alternative kernel is needlessly complicated and not worth anything regarding safety of the procedure |
| 15:14.33 | bencoh | (that would actually depends on the system you're trying to boot ... in some cases you need some initrd for rootfs to become available) |
| 15:15.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, we are talking about N900. Or what's meant by "system"? |
| 15:16.19 | bencoh | n900 with rootfs sitting on a dmcrypt device would require cryptsetup at boot, for instance |
| 15:16.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | also note that initrd is a parameter to kernel telling kernel what to load and execute, it's one step later than loading kernel |
| 15:17.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | we're talking about loading kernel right now, so initrd or not is not even a issue at that stage |
| 15:19.57 | Enrico_Menotti | DocScrutinizer05 Right. I could flash u-boot and use that as a loader. But for the moment I'd like to try directly from NOLO. Maybe that's not possible. However, it is done with Rescue OS. I'd like to understand how. |
| 15:19.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>I'd just want to understand how to put standard Linux kernel in a format suitable to be uploaded (not flashed) and booted by the flasher-3.5<< |
| 15:21.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's documented in rescueOS, why don't you check that and learn how it works? |
| 15:22.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't understand what's the use to learn about RAMloaded kernel before you got your kernel booting 'in a normal way', but... that's pretty much up to you |
| 15:23.36 | Enrico_Menotti | Well, there is something about the initrd, as it has been pointed out to me by NIN101, but I did not find the procedure for the kernel. Apart from the flasher-3.5 -b"<parameters>". Maybe I did not check well enough. |
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| 15:28.00 | Enrico_Menotti | https://github.com/quitesimpleorg/N900_RescueOS/blob/master/HACKING |
| 15:28.37 | Enrico_Menotti | https://github.com/quitesimpleorg/N900_RescueOS/blob/master/howtocreate |
| 15:29.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway >>I tried with the OMAP2plus conif file, and built the kernel. Now I'd try to upload it by Nokia's flasher (upload, not flash)<< sounds like a pretty poor approach to me, mixing two unrelated problems A and B (aka ramload and new kernel) that both have many possible issues causing the whole thing to fail. A good approach is to first try make one part work (your new kernel loaded via uBoot), and only after that's accomplished try to |
| 15:29.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | accomplish the other part, maybe even with a known good unrelated part (try ramloading a kernel that is *known* to work) |
| 15:32.26 | Enrico_Menotti | Rescue OS kernel works, e.g. (RAMloaded). Yes, I should check the new kernel by another procedure, but that would require to flash u-boot, and I'd like to avoid that for now. |
| 15:34.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | WHY??? |
| 15:36.20 | bencoh | why not, I'd say? booting a new kernel directly from flasher does seem simpler, and should just work, I'd say |
| 15:36.32 | Enrico_Menotti | Just because I'd like not to flash anything on the device for now. As I said, I had to struggle quite a lot for reflashing it. |
| 15:36.45 | bencoh | and it requires one less step (updating kernel in emmc/microsd) |
| 15:36.55 | Enrico_Menotti | bencoh Yes, this is my opinion. |
| 15:37.54 | bencoh | Enrico_Menotti: you should still flash uboot nonetheless, btw ... even if you don't need it for what you're trying to achieve right now |
| 15:37.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | Enrico_Menotti: this proves you lack the knowledge to handle simple scenarios, so you try to avoid the problems in simple scenarios by opting for a complex scenario. doesn't make sense. There is no problem at all in installing uBoot |
| 15:38.15 | bencoh | DocScrutinizer05: I don't see how running flasher should be a complex scenario |
| 15:38.44 | Enrico_Menotti | Yes, that's my point as well. |
| 15:39.11 | bencoh | I mean, we have two working implementations of it |
| 15:39.17 | bencoh | they're both well tested |
| 15:39.25 | bencoh | and require no device modification |
| 15:39.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | oh yeah, ramloading a system seems sooo simple. It just doesn't work with my leete new stuff so PLZ HELP! |
| 15:39.38 | bencoh | ... |
| 15:41.46 | Enrico_Menotti | Ok, the fact I don't know how to do it doesn't mean it is not simple, in my opinion. It's a lack of knowledge from my side, not a higher complexity of the problem. This is my humble opinion. |
| 15:45.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | and what makes you think your lack of knowledge would be a minor obstacle when it comes to a very süpecial procedure that's rarely ever used and thus not widely tested and only few experts and documents available to help you out? |
| 15:47.45 | Enrico_Menotti | Yes, this is true as well. If I can't find out how to do it this way, I'll do the other way. But first I'd try to understand how this way works. (And it works at least for one system, Rescue OS.) |
| 15:48.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | you want to avoid problems form lack of knowledge how to fix a fsckd up uBoot config (which is a very well known issue easily fixed and you can find a dozen answers to any question you have with it), and you decide the best way is to use a method that basically only Pali, nin101 and fmg have used on a regular basis |
| 15:49.20 | bencoh | DocScrutinizer05: and pretty much everyone that has been using rescueOS (?) |
| 15:49.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, those USED it but don't necessarily understand shit of how it works |
| 15:51.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | let me just point out that it's based on NOLO which in turn isn't FOSS like uBoot |
| 15:51.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | NOLO and flasher |
| 15:51.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | don't know if Pali inverstigated it and implemented it into 0xffff |
| 15:52.38 | Enrico_Menotti | Well, if they may help me, I hope Pali and NIN101 will do. Don't want to disturb too much, however. |
| 15:53.54 | bencoh | he did (implement kernel loading in 0xffff) |
| 15:53.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | nin101 already helped you,pointing you to his stuff how rescueOS works and how to prepare the image to load |
| 15:55.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2017-03-30 Thu 14:13:06] <NIN101> https://github.com/NIN101/N900_RescueOS/blob/master/howtocreate https://github.com/NIN101/N900_RescueOS/blob/master/HACKING |
| 15:57.52 | Enrico_Menotti | Yes, I read it many times. I will google for "buildroot" and see what comes out. |
| 15:58.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | >><Enrico_Menotti> So let me tell you what I am doing (as usual, I'm experimenting). I'm trying to boot a standard Linux distribution<< WONT WORK with intird!!! NOT ENOUGH RAM! |
| 16:00.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | you're aware why it's called initRamDisk? because it takes away RAM from system to store files in it that are usually stored on e.g. BABD or eMMC or uSD |
| 16:00.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | NAND, not babd |
| 16:02.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | and btw no normal user would refer to installation of uBoot as "flashing", it's a normal package install from user perspective |
| 16:02.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | this is not android where you need to flash custom ROM |
| 16:04.33 | Enrico_Menotti | This is how I came to yesterday's problem of how to transfer files from my computer to the N900. I put the file system on the sd card. But what for the kernel? Without u-boot I cannot upload it from eMMC or sd card. I need to upload it to RAM by the flasher and boot it, right? |
| 16:05.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | the eror lies in "without uboot" |
| 16:09.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | not even trying to explain how you will run into further special customization need when trying to make your initrd pivotroot onto the system on uSD then. Or musing about if or if not flasher+NOLO can load kernel from uSD file instead uploading i |
| 16:11.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly what's so unbearably terrible about `apt-get install uboot-pr13` ? |
| 16:12.19 | Enrico_Menotti | As I said, if I can't avoid it, I will do it. |
| 16:12.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | and yes, to get rid of it in case you messed up completely (hard to imagine how you'd do that) you simply flash stock kernel and everything back to normal, which is a nobrainer just like the installation |
| 16:14.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: when uboot missing its config files, would it break or simply boot straight into default aka stock kernel? |
| 16:15.31 | Pali | uboot has hardcoded in its binary some defaults |
| 16:15.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | ta! :-) |
| 16:15.45 | Pali | which are used when boomenu.src file is not available |
| 16:15.58 | Pali | so yes, it boots default attached kernel |
| 16:16.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | Enrico_Menotti: see, it's basically impossible to break uboot |
| 16:16.22 | Enrico_Menotti | ... |
| 16:16.57 | Pali | correct package is u-boot-flasher: http://maemo.org/packages/view/u-boot-flasher |
| 16:19.13 | Enrico_Menotti | The first time, I flashed everything ok, installed u-boot, messed up, and then I was unable to boot stock kernel. Nor normally flash the device. I also ended up with empty battery. Pali and NIN101 helped me in order to boot rescue OS from the sd card. This allowed charging the battery. Then I had to flash just the kernel, if I remember it right, and then I was able to flash normally. |
| 16:19.54 | freemangordon | Enrico_Menotti: anyway, you can;t boot omap2plus_defconfig build kernel iirc |
| 16:20.09 | freemangordon | check the one on Pali's tree on github |
| 16:20.14 | freemangordon | ~elinux |
| 16:20.14 | infobot | [elinux] http://eLinux.org/ or the Embedded Linux project. cross compilers. build systems, hardware hacking etc. |
| 16:20.47 | freemangordon | Enrico_Menotti: https://github.com/pali/linux-n900 |
| 16:21.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>The first time, I flashed everything ok, installed u-boot,<< ok, so far >>messed up<< whatever you did, it been most likely because of lack of experience and info >>and then I was unable to boot stock kernel<< well, quite possible if you installed another kernel the wrong way >>Nor normally flash the device.<< PEBCAK |
| 16:22.58 | Enrico_Menotti | freemangordon This is something in fact I would like to understand. Maybe I did the wrong thing in choosing mainline kernel. But there is a branch dedicated to the N900. And it's incorporated into the mainline. I tried to make that config file and then make menuconfig. Seems there are options for the N900. |
| 16:23.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>I also ended up with empty battery<< which is clearly PEBCAK since you been warned a dozen times at least during your study of docs and howtos that you need a fully charged battery before you mess around with the system in any way. And you shouldn't let system run in a bootloop for hours |
| 16:24.43 | bencoh | DocScrutinizer05: I honestly don't think this is helping |
| 16:25.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | It helps correct user attitude that dispises uBoot based on unrelated bad experience |
| 16:26.05 | Enrico_Menotti | DocScrutinizer05 What's that acronym PEBCAK? Sorry, I'm a poor Italian. :) |
| 16:26.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~wtf pebcak |
| 16:26.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~wtf peblac |
| 16:26.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~wtf pebkac |
| 16:27.11 | Enrico_Menotti | ... |
| 16:28.03 | freemangordon | Enrico_Menotti: get rx51_defconfig from pali's tree on github (the one for linux 4.9) amd us that config with mainline kernel |
| 16:28.11 | freemangordon | *and |
| 16:28.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | *and use |
| 16:28.50 | freemangordon | mainline has no branch dedicated to n900 last time I've checked |
| 16:28.55 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: yep, thanks |
| 16:29.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
| 16:30.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: thanks for chiming in. experts urgently needed here to make happy a user eager to learn and no hood docs around |
| 16:30.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/hood/good/ |
| 16:30.47 | freemangordon | Pali: did you see the issue I opened against libhildonfm? |
| 16:31.01 | Pali | yes, but did not have time look at it deeply.. |
| 16:31.43 | Pali | (now reading PDF spec and playing with generating PDF files... :-)) |
| 16:31.49 | freemangordon | :) |
| 16:32.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | malware pdfs? ;-P |
| 16:32.16 | bencoh | and sha stuff? :* |
| 16:32.17 | freemangordon | well, the fix should be trivial, I may take on it these days if I find some spare time |
| 16:32.43 | Enrico_Menotti | DocScrutinizer05 Referring to the PEBKAC, I won't take this as an insult. I'm just trying to learn. But as bencoh said, this is not helping. |
| 16:32.43 | bencoh | freemangordon: you mean, removing const attributes? |
| 16:33.00 | Enrico_Menotti | freemangordon About the defconfig file, I will try, thanks. |
| 16:33.38 | freemangordon | bencoh: not only that, see https://github.com/community-ssu/libhildonfm/blob/master/hildon-fm/hildon-file-system-storage-dialog.c#L1268 |
| 16:33.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | Enrico_Menotti: wasn't an insult. I appreciate you want to learn. FOSS people and particularly me olf fart are sounding grumpy often when trying to convey facts as compressed as possible |
| 16:34.45 | bencoh | freemangordon: I suppose you're not referring to the fact that this is an awfully long name for a function :D |
| 16:34.46 | freemangordon | bencoh: total = _("sfil_va_total_size_removable_storage"); and next 2 lines should be total =g_strdup( _("sfil_va_total_size_removable_storage")); IIUC |
| 16:35.21 | bencoh | hm, could be yeah |
| 16:35.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | Enrico_Menotti: you have a dislike of uBoot which lets you make not very wide decisions about how to proceed which will lead to more similar negative experience like you laready had in unrelated contect of uboot |
| 16:35.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/wide /wise/ |
| 16:35.52 | freemangordon | bencoh: because we have g_free(total); couple of lines down ;) |
| 16:35.53 | bencoh | freemangordon: haven't played much with glib/gtk recently |
| 16:35.55 | bencoh | yeah |
| 16:36.00 | bencoh | :) |
| 16:36.04 | bencoh | rogjt |
| 16:36.08 | bencoh | right*. |
| 16:36.11 | freemangordon | _() macro resolves to dgettext() |
| 16:36.39 | freemangordon | bencoh: from man dgettext " The resulting string is statically allocated and must not be modified or freed." |
| 16:36.46 | bencoh | huhu |
| 16:37.02 | freemangordon | so the issue is way biger than just const modifier :) |
| 16:37.08 | freemangordon | *bigger |
| 16:37.10 | bencoh | indeed |
| 16:37.17 | freemangordon | hmm.. |
| 16:37.27 | bencoh | I wonder if we really want to g_free |
| 16:37.31 | freemangordon | checks with gtranslate :) |
| 16:37.49 | freemangordon | yeah, double g |
| 16:38.10 | freemangordon | bencoh: yes, we want, as hildon_format_file_size_for_display allocates memory |
| 16:38.35 | freemangordon | bencoh: http://maemo.org/api_refs/5.0/beta/hildon/hildon-Helper-Functions.html#hildon-format-file-size-for-display |
| 16:38.36 | bencoh | searching for "gtranslate" on google .... meh :) |
| 16:38.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | PEBKAC is just a short term for "user did probably something wrong, maybe because of lack of good instructions or documentation, maybe because of a typo or whatever other oopsie that everybody does from time to time" |
| 16:38.43 | bencoh | (silly me) |
| 16:39.12 | bencoh | ah, in that case ... |
| 16:39.37 | freemangordon | at least this is how I read "This function is similar to g_format_file_size_for_display() " |
| 16:39.57 | bencoh | how did you stumble on that? |
| 16:40.17 | freemangordon | while porting libhildonfm from gnomevfs to gio |
| 16:40.25 | bencoh | ouch |
| 16:40.33 | bencoh | gtk3 port? |
| 16:40.38 | freemangordon | gtk2 |
| 16:40.42 | bencoh | ah |
| 16:41.01 | freemangordon | but it should be the same/similar for gtk3 IMO |
| 16:42.29 | Enrico_Menotti | DocScrutinizer05 Ok, no pb. In any case at this point I will read about buildroot, which is used for the building of rescue OS. Also I may try with the defconfig by Pali . If none of these ways will be successful, I will install u-boot and try with that. |
| 16:43.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | defconfig and uBoot/buildroot are orthogonal |
| 16:44.02 | freemangordon | Enrico_Menotti: there is a bootable n900 devuan image http://46.249.74.23/devuan/image/ with kernel 4.something (4.8 iirc) |
| 16:44.32 | freemangordon | Enrico_Menotti: uimage http://46.249.74.23/devuan/kernel-n900/ |
| 16:44.56 | buZz | i have devuan on a n900 :) |
| 16:44.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali and freemangordon are very experienced kernel devs who know their shit, when they tell you what works and what doesn't, i'd suggest to faithfully trust in their word :-) |
| 16:44.58 | *** join/#maemo chainsawbike (~chainsawb@unaffiliated/chainsawbike) |
| 16:45.02 | buZz | kinda nice but needs moar tweaks |
| 16:45.16 | buZz | still havent implemented right-clicking for instance :P |
| 16:45.23 | buZz | i just debootstrapped plain though |
| 16:45.24 | freemangordon | buZz: did you use parazyd's builder? |
| 16:45.49 | buZz | i used https://github.com/dderby/debian900 |
| 16:46.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | Enrico_Menotti: odds are a lot of upstream N900 kernel stuff you find has been upstreamed by Pali and freemangordon |
| 16:46.36 | freemangordon | buZz: yeah, that one |
| 16:46.52 | freemangordon | hmm, wait |
| 16:47.01 | buZz | worked well, kinda amazed at how nice it is to run devuan on this device |
| 16:47.11 | freemangordon | no, not that one |
| 16:47.21 | buZz | well , thats the one i used :D |
| 16:47.47 | freemangordon | yeah, but there is a newer one :) |
| 16:47.52 | freemangordon | buZz: see https://github.com/dyne/arm-sdk |
| 16:48.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: when you got a kernel that is supposed to work according to freemangordon and you can't ramload it, nothing wrong with asking about it and get help :-) |
| 16:49.03 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: was that pointed to me? |
| 16:49.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | oops sorry nope, ETAB |
| 16:49.17 | buZz | i might try it someday :) |
| 16:49.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | Enrico_Menotti: ^^^ |
| 16:49.22 | buZz | starred |
| 16:49.38 | freemangordon | buZz: the image ^^^ is build with it, albeit a couple of months ago |
| 16:51.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | eventually will patch konversation to have two separate LRY stacks for tan nick expansion at start of line and inline |
| 16:51.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | LRU* and tab* |
| 16:52.14 | Enrico_Menotti | DocScrutinizer05 freemangordon Ok, I am looking at that kernel. I need a moment. |
| 16:52.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-)) |
| 16:53.25 | freemangordon | is starving, going to find something to bite |
| 17:02.06 | bencoh | damn I seriously need a second n900 to play with those things |
| 17:02.13 | bencoh | (mainline kernel, devuan, ...) |
| 17:02.20 | bencoh | (well I'd need time, too, but ...) |
| 17:03.47 | *** join/#maemo xy2_ (~xy2_@89.245.16.93.rev.sfr.net) |
| 17:05.06 | buZz | bencoh: and a third |
| 17:06.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: ((devuan image)) armhf? |
| 17:07.05 | freemangordon | yes |
| 17:07.24 | Enrico_Menotti | freemangordon Ok, I got the kernel and system image. A first question: this is a uImage, so it is supposed to be loaded by u-boot, right? What if I want to try to RAMload it with the flasher? |
| 17:07.51 | freemangordon | Pali: ^^^ |
| 17:08.24 | freemangordon | Enrico_Menotti: though, you can ximply try |
| 17:08.28 | freemangordon | *simply |
| 17:08.49 | freemangordon | kernel not booting is the worst that can happen |
| 17:09.00 | freemangordon | but yeah, it is supposed to be loaded by uboot |
| 17:09.18 | Enrico_Menotti | No way to convert it to zImage? |
| 17:09.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, but what's supposed to happen if it does load and run |
| 17:10.09 | freemangordon | Enrico_Menotti: none I am aware of |
| 17:10.26 | freemangordon | lemme try to find zImage |
| 17:10.34 | Enrico_Menotti | Thank you. |
| 17:10.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/122526/how-to-convert-a-zimage-into-uimage-for-booting-with-u-boot |
| 17:12.57 | freemangordon | Enrico_Menotti: I found some newer, you may try with it. it is on http://46.249.74.23/devuan/kernel-n900/ |
| 17:13.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://linux.die.net/man/1/mkimage |
| 17:13.49 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: he wants the opposite uImage->zImage |
| 17:14.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | I know it's wrong way around, but explains the diffs |
| 17:16.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, seems pretty nontrivial |
| 17:17.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | mkimage has no inverse option to uimg->zimg |
| 17:17.22 | *** join/#maemo xy2_ (~xy2_@89.245.16.93.rev.sfr.net) |
| 17:18.00 | Enrico_Menotti | freemangordon Ok, thank you, got it. Just in order to avoid doing strange things, I'd have a second question. The system image - I can't upload it to RAM (2GB). So should I mount it on a Linux system and then extract the contents to the SD card? |
| 17:20.28 | Zungo | cant you use dd ? |
| 17:20.41 | Zungo | also the image might be writeable? |
| 17:20.51 | bencoh | uimage -> zimage is a simple dd skip=64 bs=1 |
| 17:21.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-D \o/ |
| 17:21.57 | Enrico_Menotti | Zungo Ok, let me try. |
| 17:22.00 | bencoh | and building zimage (vmlinuz) from a kernel tree is quite simple considering you've succeeded in building uimage :) |
| 17:22.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | easy to verify with mkimage applied to the result and check if it creates the original uimage |
| 17:22.50 | bencoh | DocScrutinizer05: you'd need to know mkimage parameters |
| 17:22.53 | bencoh | but yeah |
| 17:23.40 | bencoh | uboot (simple) header contains loadaddress and image name among other things |
| 17:29.22 | *** join/#maemo xy2_ (~xy2_@119.245.16.93.rev.sfr.net) |
| 17:32.41 | freemangordon | Enrico_Menotti: on ubuntu you can write compressed image directly to SD card with "disks" UI. No idea about debian, but there should be similar functionality |
| 17:34.04 | freemangordon | Enrico_Menotti: but simple "extract" won't do the job, there is more than just a files |
| 17:36.06 | Enrico_Menotti | freemangordon Thanks. I used rsync for transferring the Debian file system to the sd card. I was thinking about the same way here. Clearly, it is easier to write directly the zImage. Now, I have (as usual :) ) a quite convoluted situation. Let me explain. |
| 17:37.07 | Enrico_Menotti | My main computer is a Mac. I have a Debian live distribution running on another computer, which is unable to read sd cards (doesn't have a slot for that). I'd use directly the N900 for writing the disk image to the sd card. |
| 17:37.53 | freemangordon | Enrico_Menotti: I am not sure rsync will do the job, but I might be wrong. just to be sure, use dd |
| 17:38.23 | Enrico_Menotti | So now I'd resort to dd. But I think the zImage expects the sd card to be the right size, or a partition to be prepared in advance, am I right or wrong? |
| 17:39.41 | freemangordon | doing dd of uncompressed image to sdcard is all you need, this is why it is disk image, but not a file archive |
| 17:39.54 | freemangordon | *files archive |
| 17:40.40 | Zungo | you can always use CLI |
| 17:40.45 | Zungo | and theres GParted |
| 17:40.53 | Enrico_Menotti | Zungo On N900? |
| 17:41.05 | Zungo | idk |
| 17:41.10 | Zungo | i do not have a n900 |
| 17:41.11 | Zungo | yet |
| 17:41.51 | freemangordon | Enrico_Menotti: no, on debian |
| 17:42.06 | Sicelo | Zungo: you'll be very happy when you finally get it :) |
| 17:42.15 | freemangordon | install gparted and use it to restore the image onto the sdcard |
| 17:42.22 | Enrico_Menotti | Don't have the GUI on Debian. Just command line (small computer). |
| 17:42.23 | Zungo | debian is like ubuntu :p |
| 17:42.28 | freemangordon | ah |
| 17:42.29 | Zungo | you can always install X |
| 17:42.35 | freemangordon | well, dd is your friend |
| 17:42.37 | buZz | ubuntu is debian without training wheels |
| 17:42.41 | buZz | with* |
| 17:42.43 | buZz | dangit |
| 17:42.53 | freemangordon | mhm |
| 17:43.15 | freemangordon | but I like it, in most of its part |
| 17:43.50 | buZz | yeah, i like devuan aswell |
| 17:43.57 | Zungo | actually gparted doesnt restore images but can attempt to restore lost partitions |
| 17:44.09 | Zungo | photorec or testdisk for that |
| 17:44.13 | freemangordon | Enrico_Menotti: BUT - don;t forget to uncompress the image first (well, you can uncompress it on-the-fly) |
| 17:44.16 | Zungo | they're a bit old through |
| 17:45.53 | Enrico_Menotti | freemangordon Ok, I'm still so handicapped with Linux & friends that I have to google for the right commands. But I'll manage to find the way. Just a question about dd: I found it is usually invoked with an option "bs=4096". Is this choice standard? |
| 17:46.15 | freemangordon | I think yes |
| 17:47.05 | freemangordon | but I am not exactly dd guru, so don't quote me on that one :) |
| 17:47.19 | Enrico_Menotti | Ok, I'll just try. |
| 17:47.25 | Zungo | check the man pages for that |
| 17:47.47 | freemangordon | but it should be something like dd if=$image of=/dev/$sdcard bs=4096 |
| 17:48.19 | Zungo | you'd have to figure out with what default commandline is dd compiled with |
| 17:48.24 | Sicelo | what image is he restoring by the way? sorry i missed the first part of discussion |
| 17:48.24 | freemangordon | Zungo: what is the shell tool to uncompress .xz images? |
| 17:48.33 | freemangordon | Sicelo: devuan n900 |
| 17:48.35 | Zungo | because most of the time the defaults are fine with dd |
| 17:48.38 | Sicelo | ok |
| 17:49.02 | Sicelo | xz decompresses .xz :) |
| 17:49.09 | Zungo | lel |
| 17:49.22 | freemangordon | thancs |
| 17:49.28 | freemangordon | *thanks |
| 17:49.55 | freemangordon | Sicelo: it doesn;t need parameters to decompress it and to put it on stdout? |
| 17:50.02 | Sicelo | i'm happy Enrico_Menotti is installing a proper linux now (not Nitdroid) |
| 17:50.09 | Sicelo | where' the link for devuan n900? |
| 17:50.32 | Sicelo | well, a quick check says for stdout, you use -c |
| 17:51.07 | freemangordon | Enrico_Menotti: some notes - devuan image is without X, login is usr=root pwd=toor, IIRC |
| 17:51.27 | Sicelo | link please :) |
| 17:52.31 | freemangordon | Enrico_Menotti: so, you may try with "xz -c $image.xz | dd -of=/dev/$sdcard bs=4096", without quotes |
| 17:52.38 | freemangordon | Sicelo: link to what? |
| 17:52.49 | Sicelo | devuan image |
| 17:52.56 | freemangordon | see backscroll |
| 17:55.28 | Sicelo | thanks got it now |
| 18:01.17 | Zungo | so there is a devuan+maemo image for testing? |
| 18:02.24 | buZz | with maemo embedded into devuan? |
| 18:02.33 | buZz | that sounds nice |
| 18:02.48 | Zungo | or just devuan images for n900..? |
| 18:02.51 | buZz | 18:44:02 < freemangordon> Enrico_Menotti: there is a bootable n900 devuan image http://46.249.74.23/devuan/image/ with kernel 4.something (4.8 iirc) |
| 18:02.54 | buZz | 18:44:32 < freemangordon> Enrico_Menotti: uimage http://46.249.74.23/devuan/kernel-n900/ |
| 18:03.02 | Zungo | ah |
| 18:03.04 | buZz | i think these are an image anyway |
| 18:03.06 | parazyd | freemangordon: there was a newer i made with Wizzup |
| 18:03.09 | parazyd | sec |
| 18:03.30 | parazyd | https://pub.parazyd.cf/tmp/devuan_jessie_1.0.0-RC_armhf_n900.img.xz |
| 18:03.37 | parazyd | https://pub.parazyd.cf/tmp/devuan_jessie_1.0.0-RC_armhf_n900.img.xz.sha (sha256) |
| 18:03.45 | parazyd | 4.10 mainlie |
| 18:03.55 | freemangordon | parazyd: thanks |
| 18:03.59 | parazyd | *mainline. uncompresses to ~2GB |
| 18:04.01 | freemangordon | Enrico_Menotti: ^^^ |
| 18:04.28 | freemangordon | Zungo: no, embedding maemo with devuan is WIP |
| 18:05.09 | freemangordon | Zungo: see https://github.com/fremantle-gtk2 |
| 18:06.23 | Zungo | right |
| 18:06.31 | Zungo | has those updated yet? |
| 18:07.34 | freemangordon | buZz: Zungo: see videos at http://46.249.74.23/allwinner/ for some very very early results. This is gtk3 hildon-desktop running on top of devuan n900 image prepared with parazyd's armsdk. |
| 18:07.41 | freemangordon | Zungo: updated? |
| 18:07.54 | buZz | allwinner n900? YES PLEASE |
| 18:08.08 | buZz | :) |
| 18:08.33 | parazyd | ^_^ |
| 18:08.34 | freemangordon | no, it is not allwinner n900, but some cheapo alwinner tablet I bought for the purpose of POC |
| 18:08.45 | Zungo | hoping the ia32 variants are ready soon |
| 18:08.46 | Zungo | lel |
| 18:09.07 | freemangordon | Zungo: well, actually I am using x86-64 VM for all the development ;) |
| 18:09.17 | freemangordon | and testing |
| 18:09.43 | freemangordon | Zungo: so, in theory, all you need to do is to git clone;dpng-buildpackge |
| 18:09.58 | buZz | freemangordon: A13 ? :D |
| 18:10.06 | freemangordon | *dpkg-buildpackge |
| 18:10.10 | buZz | i have some 7" A13 tablet somewhere |
| 18:10.10 | freemangordon | buZz: A33 |
| 18:10.18 | Zungo | freemangordon: its juest |
| 18:10.38 | freemangordon | Zungo: sorry, can;t parse |
| 18:10.48 | Zungo | that i am juest |
| 18:10.50 | Zungo | -_- |
| 18:11.06 | freemangordon | ah |
| 18:11.50 | freemangordon | buZz: you need upstream kernel support AND working 3D accell |
| 18:12.29 | buZz | A10/13/20 afaik all have upstream & 3d accell sorta working |
| 18:12.30 | freemangordon | well, maybe upstream is not a must, but I don;t know how well devuan will play with some OEM kernel |
| 18:12.43 | buZz | with blobbed drivers though |
| 18:12.51 | freemangordon | buZz: yeah, blobbed |
| 18:13.07 | freemangordon | but a10/a13/a20 are nowhere to be found |
| 18:13.37 | buZz | which nowhere are you refering to? |
| 18:13.45 | freemangordon | ebay |
| 18:13.51 | buZz | oh no clue |
| 18:14.08 | buZz | A13 = whats inside R8 |
| 18:14.13 | buZz | so 'CHIP' is A13 |
| 18:14.19 | freemangordon | no idea |
| 18:14.26 | buZz | i'm telling you :) |
| 18:14.32 | freemangordon | however, having it working on A33 is better |
| 18:14.42 | buZz | yeah? |
| 18:15.04 | freemangordon | yeah, those are some 50 euros - 4 cores/512MB |
| 18:16.11 | buZz | i'm aware what the SOC is :P |
| 18:16.42 | freemangordon | ok |
| 18:16.56 | freemangordon | but I was not aware if you are :p |
| 18:17.24 | buZz | thats ok <3 |
| 18:17.27 | buZz | appreciated |
| 18:18.49 | freemangordon | anyway, with help of Wizzup and parazyd, we may have maemo rebased on devuan repo on devuan servers. ofc not full maemo, but at least hildon-desktop, hildon-status-menu and hildon-home |
| 18:19.14 | freemangordon | in 2-3 weeks from now, if they manage to find the needed time to do it |
| 18:19.29 | buZz | quite nice |
| 18:19.55 | freemangordon | mhm. I hope to attract more devs once there is something to be shown besides a POC |
| 18:20.06 | Zungo | \o/ |
| 18:20.34 | parazyd | yes i hope to do amprolla this month |
| 18:20.42 | freemangordon | yeah, there are piles of porting work waiting to be done, not a one-man-show task |
| 18:20.43 | parazyd | also devuan RC will be released |
| 18:21.23 | parazyd | and then hopefully the other devuan people enable the CI |
| 18:21.45 | freemangordon | cool |
| 18:22.23 | parazyd | so for other ppl interested: this way we don't "taint" devuan repos, but have our own downstream |
| 18:22.50 | parazyd | which takes precedence over devuan then so one can even override a devuan package |
| 18:23.04 | parazyd | (automagically) |
| 18:23.19 | freemangordon | I wonder if we can make some more noise. After all the final goal is to have a real mobile/tablet linux, so I somehow expect a bit more enthusiasm from FOSS people. |
| 18:23.48 | parazyd | maybe on some conferences |
| 18:24.27 | freemangordon | mhm. But still, there should be something at least close to functioning to be shown there |
| 18:25.15 | freemangordon | however, I am one function away from finishing libhildonfm porting to gio, and IIRC that was the last missing hildon-home dependency |
| 18:25.30 | parazyd | <3 |
| 18:25.34 | buZz | devuan RC? |
| 18:25.56 | parazyd | jessie release candidate |
| 18:26.09 | parazyd | yeah, it's slow... but steady i guess |
| 18:26.16 | freemangordon | once having those 3 (h-d, h-h and h-s-m) I guess it will get easier |
| 18:26.31 | freemangordon | though there remains stuff like systemui etc |
| 18:26.41 | parazyd | i don't like that it's moving _so_ slow though. debian already froze jessie and is getting ready for stretch |
| 18:26.48 | parazyd | but this is not the place to bitch about it |
| 18:26.48 | freemangordon | not THAT hard, but time consuming |
| 18:27.59 | freemangordon | IT would have been great if there was at least one more dev to work on sporting stuff that we have source code of, so me to be able to focus on REing work, but... |
| 18:28.07 | freemangordon | *porting |
| 18:28.56 | KotCzarny | fmg: a10/a20 is present in those MIDxxx cheapo tablets from few years ago, that are laying around in people's houses |
| 18:28.59 | parazyd | we'll see |
| 18:29.23 | KotCzarny | and all of them would be very easy to make supported |
| 18:30.58 | buZz | i think so too |
| 18:31.28 | buZz | i can get to trying on this A13 tablet i own once something gets testable? |
| 18:31.44 | KotCzarny | yup |
| 18:31.53 | KotCzarny | you can do it now |
| 18:32.10 | freemangordon | KotCzarny: I have not been able to find any online source to buy anything older than a33 |
| 18:32.35 | KotCzarny | fmg: second hand goods? unless you are interested in only something that can be bought new? |
| 18:32.37 | freemangordon | buZz: it is testable ATM |
| 18:33.09 | freemangordon | KotCzarny: yep, I wanted for it to be new, I don;t really need HW failures to mess with OS development |
| 18:33.32 | *** join/#maemo tryagain (~quassel@46.172.22.15) |
| 18:34.57 | freemangordon | buZz: you only need to install debian/devuan, X, 3d drivers gcc and git |
| 18:35.05 | KotCzarny | i have a quite successful theory, that if you buy something used that is working, it wont fail for a long time. new things, straight from the factory, otoh, can have a high chance of failure |
| 18:35.19 | freemangordon | could be |
| 18:35.49 | freemangordon | but still, it was way easier to buy it from BG merchant, with warranty and 3 days for delivery :) |
| 18:36.07 | KotCzarny | and if it fails, 2-3 weeks of being without device? ;) |
| 18:36.20 | freemangordon | and with return policy covered by EU rules |
| 18:36.35 | freemangordon | for that price, I can buy 2 per week :) |
| 18:36.41 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 18:37.05 | KotCzarny | yeah, that's winning argument |
| 18:37.28 | KotCzarny | BUT, if you manage to find a10/a13 for 5usd .. ;) |
| 18:37.41 | freemangordon | the key being "if you manage" |
| 18:37.46 | freemangordon | I failed |
| 18:38.08 | freemangordon | there were only 2 or 3 on some Russian sites, I'd rather not mess with |
| 18:38.26 | freemangordon | no EU to cover my ass there |
| 18:38.32 | KotCzarny | most people who own those old devices are usually not knowing what they have |
| 18:39.21 | freemangordon | Wizzup searched for used a10/a13 for a week or so, he found almost nothing |
| 18:39.58 | freemangordon | and, I think it is better to try the newest as it is probable to be supported/available for some time |
| 18:40.11 | freemangordon | not that a33 is the newest, but still |
| 18:40.16 | KotCzarny | erm, that's not true in arm land |
| 18:40.34 | KotCzarny | newest arent supported for 3-12 months |
| 18:40.39 | freemangordon | KotCzarny: what is the point to port maemo to HW you can;t buy? |
| 18:40.50 | KotCzarny | and vendor bsp is usually crap |
| 18:41.30 | KotCzarny | fmg, afair, requirement is 'mainline kernel with not locked bootloader and 3g accel' |
| 18:41.49 | KotCzarny | *3d |
| 18:42.30 | freemangordon | well, yeah |
| 18:43.45 | Enrico_Menotti | Sorry, I have a small issue. I have been able to use dd to write the disk image to sd card, but when I try to mount the sd card itself I get "invalid argument". |
| 18:44.24 | KotCzarny | dd image? |
| 18:44.30 | freemangordon | youcan;t mount it, as there are several partitions |
| 18:44.39 | KotCzarny | what dd image |
| 18:44.44 | freemangordon | devuan n900 |
| 18:44.49 | KotCzarny | ahm |
| 18:45.00 | parazyd | be sure to uncompress it first |
| 18:45.16 | freemangordon | yeah, warned him several times already :) |
| 18:45.34 | parazyd | just making sure... why can't it be mounted then? |
| 18:45.48 | KotCzarny | because you need -o param |
| 18:45.50 | parazyd | i get mmcblk0p1 and p2 on my laptop after dd-ing |
| 18:45.53 | KotCzarny | if you dont specify partition |
| 18:45.59 | KotCzarny | parazyd, you need hdparm -z too |
| 18:46.07 | freemangordon | KotCzarny: hmm? |
| 18:46.08 | KotCzarny | or other way to reread partition table |
| 18:46.17 | freemangordon | ah, yeah |
| 18:46.30 | parazyd | partprobe, yes |
| 18:46.43 | freemangordon | Enrico_Menotti: just reconnect sdcard |
| 18:47.01 | Enrico_Menotti | I decompressed the .xz file on the Mac. Got a .img file. Transferred that to the N900. dd the image to the sd card. Under /dev I see mmcblk1 and mmcblk1p1. |
| 18:47.03 | freemangordon | that's the easiest way to force debian to reread the partition table |
| 18:47.22 | KotCzarny | reinsert card |
| 18:47.28 | KotCzarny | and check for new partitions |
| 18:47.33 | freemangordon | Enrico_Menotti: emove the back cover and then put it back |
| 18:47.34 | Enrico_Menotti | No other way than opening the back cover and extracting/reinserting the card? |
| 18:47.42 | freemangordon | just remoive tha back cover |
| 18:47.59 | KotCzarny | or use hdparm -z /dev/mmcblk0 (or 1) |
| 18:48.01 | freemangordon | no need to remove/instert the card |
| 18:48.22 | freemangordon | damn typos :( |
| 18:48.22 | Enrico_Menotti | KotCzarny Ok, will try this way. |
| 18:49.09 | Enrico_Menotti | No, hdparm not found on the N900. I will manage with the cover. |
| 18:54.19 | Enrico_Menotti | Ok, I have two partitions. The first may be mounted, but there's just a uImage inside, and the second cannot be mounted: "invalid argument". |
| 18:54.57 | KotCzarny | maybe its ext4 |
| 18:55.06 | KotCzarny | ie. unsupported by n900 |
| 18:55.16 | KotCzarny | s/n900/maemo/ |
| 18:55.34 | Enrico_Menotti | Ah ok. |
| 18:55.46 | KotCzarny | you can always check on pc |
| 18:56.41 | Enrico_Menotti | No, I have problems with this: the pc where I run Debian does not have a sd card reader, and the other is a Mac, which, as far as I know, is unable to read ext fs. |
| 18:56.49 | parazyd | KotCzarny: it is |
| 18:57.09 | parazyd | p1 is fat32, p2 is ext4 (purposely) |
| 18:57.40 | Enrico_Menotti | parazyd So what parameter do I have to pass to the kernel? rootfs=/dev/mmcblk1p2 ? |
| 18:57.55 | parazyd | you can't mount it under maemo |
| 18:58.10 | KotCzarny | he asks how to boot it |
| 18:58.11 | KotCzarny | on n900 |
| 18:58.16 | Enrico_Menotti | Yes, I will boot the Devian kernel. |
| 18:58.19 | parazyd | my reasoning for choosing ext4 is because of this exactly. so maemo doesn't touch it |
| 18:58.33 | parazyd | in uboot console type 'run sdboot' |
| 18:58.44 | Enrico_Menotti | No uboot. Upload by flasher. |
| 18:58.56 | Enrico_Menotti | I need to know the parameter to be passed to the kernel. |
| 18:59.09 | parazyd | i wouldn't know |
| 18:59.17 | Sicelo | (you might want to start giving u-boot some love - or reinforce your USB) |
| 18:59.17 | parazyd | try root=/dev/mmcblk1p2 i guess |
| 18:59.32 | *** join/#maemo pagurus (~user@p4FDC3567.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 18:59.47 | parazyd | but indeed, get uboot ;) |
| 18:59.49 | Enrico_Menotti | parazyd Ok if the rootfs is in the second partition, this should work. |
| 18:59.57 | parazyd | yes |
| 19:00.04 | Enrico_Menotti | After some testing I will get u boot, of course. |
| 19:00.06 | parazyd | the fstab has an entry for /boot |
| 19:00.10 | parazyd | but it's an uimage |
| 19:00.35 | parazyd | i dunno what else besides uboot can use it |
| 19:01.13 | Sicelo | Zungo: gearcm flashed :) |
| 19:01.23 | Zungo | congrats |
| 19:01.46 | Zungo | sicelo: you wont need odin again, afaik |
| 19:01.57 | Sicelo | yes, i only used it once |
| 19:02.55 | freemangordon | parazyd: re maemo won;t touch ext4 - iirc kernel-power has ext4 support |
| 19:03.24 | parazyd | oh ok |
| 19:03.32 | parazyd | though ext4 is still a sane choice, no? |
| 19:03.42 | freemangordon | Enrico_Menotti: keep in mind I am not sure zImage i provided is the correct one |
| 19:03.50 | KotCzarny | btrfs maybe |
| 19:03.51 | freemangordon | uImage is though |
| 19:03.58 | Wizzup | freemangordon: a friend of mine said he had an old a10 tablet, but they are very hard to source |
| 19:04.06 | freemangordon | KotCzarny: ^^^ |
| 19:04.14 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 19:04.15 | Wizzup | 20:19 < freemangordon> mhm. I hope to attract more devs once there is something to be shown besides a POC |
| 19:04.18 | Wizzup | this :) |
| 19:04.33 | *** join/#maemo pagurus (~user@p4FDC3126.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 19:04.36 | KotCzarny | who wants my a10 tablet? (touch is dead) |
| 19:04.43 | Wizzup | freemangordon: let's make noise once we have something that people can dd & apt-get upgrade, so to speak |
| 19:04.52 | Wizzup | something that has at least h-d + xterm or so |
| 19:04.56 | freemangordon | yeah |
| 19:05.10 | freemangordon | BTW, I have xterm running in my VM |
| 19:05.21 | KotCzarny | allwinner has particular advantage of having sdcard at higher boot priority |
| 19:05.32 | parazyd | i saw firefox in your tablet vid :) |
| 19:05.33 | freemangordon | I use fel |
| 19:05.37 | freemangordon | parazyd: yeah |
| 19:06.48 | freemangordon | parazyd: and debian file manager (with some strange name) and wicd |
| 19:07.49 | parazyd | there is networkmanager btw, in jessie-proposed iirc |
| 19:08.04 | parazyd | deb http://auto.mirror.devuan.org/devuan jessie-proposed main |
| 19:08.21 | parazyd | i haven't tried it yet |
| 19:10.19 | freemangordon | parazyd: isn;t it too heavy for embedded? |
| 19:10.47 | KotCzarny | i hate networkmanager (when it doesnt work) |
| 19:10.50 | Enrico_Menotti | Ok, signs of life. The kernel boots, it seems, but gets panic. Unable to mount the rootfs. May it be just because it is ext4? |
| 19:11.16 | freemangordon | Enrico_Menotti: no, this means you've passed wrong root= parameter |
| 19:11.24 | parazyd | i don't know. i know it's nifty for users though. not sure how maemo does networking, but NM has vpn stuff, wifi and eth |
| 19:11.50 | parazyd | and it usually broke less often than wicd in my experiences |
| 19:12.21 | freemangordon | could be, but at least on ubuntu, the applet is FUBAR |
| 19:12.30 | parazyd | Enrico_Menotti: you can also pass 'rootfstype=ext4' |
| 19:12.37 | freemangordon | though it is canonical to be blamed here, no NM |
| 19:12.43 | freemangordon | parazyd: no need |
| 19:12.46 | freemangordon | iirc |
| 19:13.03 | freemangordon | checks his n900 u-boot config |
| 19:13.17 | parazyd | freemangordon: i'm in love with netifrc (from openrc) |
| 19:13.20 | parazyd | serves me pretty well |
| 19:13.38 | Enrico_Menotti | freemangordon root=/dev/mmcblk1p2 |
| 19:13.49 | Enrico_Menotti | Should be right. It's the ext4 partition. |
| 19:14.12 | freemangordon | Enrico_Menotti: try with root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 rootwait |
| 19:14.31 | Enrico_Menotti | I have also a rootdelay. |
| 19:15.04 | freemangordon | Enrico_Menotti: sd card numbering differs in maemo compared to upstream kernel |
| 19:15.20 | Enrico_Menotti | Ah that's the point so. |
| 19:15.30 | freemangordon | mmcblk1 in maemo is mmcblk0 in upstream, iirc |
| 19:15.37 | parazyd | ah so it IS the n900 doing that |
| 19:15.45 | parazyd | i was wondering what board did it :D |
| 19:16.08 | freemangordon | parazyd: maemo does it |
| 19:16.20 | freemangordon | it is not the board or the kernel |
| 19:16.31 | Enrico_Menotti | freemangordon There is also the mmcblk0 under maemo, which is the eMMC. Are they switched in Devian? |
| 19:16.33 | parazyd | yes, that's what i meant |
| 19:16.41 | parazyd | wrong choice of words |
| 19:16.44 | freemangordon | Enrico_Menotti: yes |
| 19:16.46 | freemangordon | iirc |
| 19:16.56 | parazyd | Enrico_Menotti: *devuan, yes |
| 19:16.58 | Sicelo | yes they are |
| 19:17.32 | KotCzarny | its 'devUan' |
| 19:17.39 | KotCzarny | not devian(t) |
| 19:19.54 | freemangordon | Enrico_Menotti: if that root= does not work, try with no command line at all |
| 19:20.08 | freemangordon | iirc the kernel should have the correct cmdline |
| 19:20.32 | Enrico_Menotti | Sorry phone call. |
| 19:20.50 | freemangordon | Enrico_Menotti: this is from the config used to build the kernel: |
| 19:20.50 | Enrico_Menotti | Devuan, right, sorry. |
| 19:20.50 | freemangordon | CONFIG_CMDLINE="root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 rw mtdoops.mtddev=log console=tty0 console=ttyO2 omapfb_vram=7M omapfb.mode=lcd:848x480-16 nokia-modem.pm=0" |
| 19:21.13 | freemangordon | so, do not pass kernel command line at all |
| 19:22.06 | Enrico_Menotti | Ok, let's try. |
| 19:23.09 | parazyd | freemangordon: btw, if you have a sane kernel config for the n900, let me know. the current one lives here: https://github.com/dyne/arm-sdk/raw/next/boards/kernel-configs/n900.config |
| 19:23.15 | parazyd | but it can be improved imo |
| 19:25.48 | Wizzup | 21:10 < freemangordon> parazyd: isn;t it too heavy for embedded? |
| 19:25.52 | Wizzup | I think it might not be |
| 19:26.09 | Wizzup | I dpn't care about the politics, but I think networkmanager may be easy to adept for the n900, but maybe not. |
| 19:26.20 | Wizzup | I figured we could take the nm-applet and modify it to fit our needs |
| 19:26.23 | Wizzup | but wicd may be fine too... |
| 19:26.35 | Wizzup | s/adept/change/ |
| 19:27.00 | KotCzarny | isbt nm relying on some weird libs? |
| 19:27.32 | Wizzup | well, let's get h-d on there first and then figure it out |
| 19:30.08 | freemangordon | parazyd: well, https://github.com/dyne/arm-sdk/commit/7d9cc10223e07bf21b0370ae3fe3a043802b9b55 |
| 19:30.21 | freemangordon | The sane n900 config I have is there |
| 19:30.54 | freemangordon | it it almost the same as the one from Pali's repo |
| 19:31.10 | parazyd | ah ok |
| 19:31.12 | Enrico_Menotti | freemangordon I tried a few times, reading the output from the kernel. Right, the external sd card is mmcblk0, two partitions. If I don't specify a root=, it says "unable to mount unspecified rootfs" or something of this kind. If I specify the root=/dev/mmcblk0p2, it's still complaining he can't mount it. I will try with also rootfstype=ext4. |
| 19:31.22 | parazyd | yeah in that one the watchdogs were modules |
| 19:31.30 | parazyd | now they're in the kernel |
| 19:31.40 | parazyd | other than that i don't remember changing anything |
| 19:32.57 | parazyd | but ok, eventually we'll figure out if there's things that need to be added |
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| 19:41.34 | Enrico_Menotti | Ok, something more. I tried with "rootwait root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 rootfstype=ext4". This now ends with "Mount failed for sys/fs/selinux: no such file or directory". |
| 19:41.56 | KotCzarny | wth are you booting? |
| 19:42.24 | parazyd | O.o |
| 19:43.16 | Enrico_Menotti | KotCzarny After some discussion about how to try booting a standard Linux distribution, I am trying to boot Devuan. |
| 19:46.06 | Enrico_Menotti | Well, at least I know there is something wrong with the mainline kernel I built, since it does not give signs of life. This other one does... :) |
| 19:46.28 | KotCzarny | why dont you use devuan kernel on your sdcard? |
| 19:47.07 | Wizzup | Enrico_Menotti: If you want linux on your n900: 1) flash maemo, install cssu, install u-boot from maemo 2) dd the devuan image from parazyd to the sd card |
| 19:47.18 | Wizzup | 3) profit, but you'll need to install xorg and others, and configure the touch screen |
| 19:47.29 | Wizzup | I have some instructions on how to do that with xinput |
| 19:47.36 | Wizzup | freemangordon: where should we document things, maemo wiki? |
| 19:48.13 | Enrico_Menotti | I am trying to upload and boot by using the flasher. To this aim, I need to upload the kernel to RAM from the computer and boot it. The file system image on the other hand is on the sd card. |
| 19:48.54 | Enrico_Menotti | Wizzup Yes, there has been a long discussion about how to test a new kernel. I'd try to upload it via flasher, instead of using u-boot. |
| 19:49.17 | Wizzup | Enrico_Menotti: why would you do that? |
| 19:49.55 | freemangordon | Wizzup: i guess yes, maemo wiki |
| 19:50.13 | Enrico_Menotti | Wizzup It's just a preliminary test. I would like to test without flashing anything. |
| 19:50.26 | freemangordon | Enrico_Menotti: does it complain about missing modules? |
| 19:50.55 | freemangordon | as it is possible that zImage I provided does not match the contents of /lib/modules |
| 19:50.58 | Enrico_Menotti | Don't know. The messages stay on the screen just for a while, without backlight. I am unable to read all. |
| 19:51.20 | freemangordon | Enrico_Menotti: try to make zImage from Umiage |
| 19:51.25 | freemangordon | *uImage |
| 19:53.08 | freemangordon | Enrico_Menotti: or, just follow the instruction on https://github.com/dyne/arm-sdk to create your own zImage and kernel |
| 19:53.16 | freemangordon | and devuan image |
| 19:53.38 | Enrico_Menotti | Ok, a minute. I think I am missing something. I downloaded zImage and the Devian .img.xz file. Unpacked the latter and used dd to write it to sd card. I upload the zImage by flasher and booted it. |
| 19:53.45 | parazyd | sidenote; it defaults to a uImage |
| 19:54.01 | parazyd | freemangordon: should i include both zImage and uImage on the /boot partition perhaps? |
| 19:54.11 | freemangordon | parazyd: but, there is zImage in the kernel build directory |
| 19:54.23 | parazyd | yes there is |
| 19:54.50 | freemangordon | Enrico_Menotti: what you did is correct |
| 19:55.01 | Enrico_Menotti | There is also the lib.tar.gz. What about it? |
| 19:55.17 | parazyd | that one corresponds to the zImage |
| 19:55.22 | parazyd | you need it |
| 19:55.27 | freemangordon | lemme check |
| 19:55.34 | Enrico_Menotti | Yes, but how to use it? |
| 19:55.43 | parazyd | extract it in the rootfs |
| 19:55.56 | freemangordon | those modules match the uImage |
| 19:56.18 | Enrico_Menotti | parazyd I cannot access the rootfs since it is ext4. |
| 19:56.18 | parazyd | oh i might have something... |
| 19:56.23 | freemangordon | and I think those modules should already be in the devuan image |
| 19:56.57 | parazyd | freemangordon: if he downloaded my latest image, that's kernel 4.10 |
| 19:57.07 | Wizzup | Enrico_Menotti: you can install u-boot and then test whatever you want from u-boot ;) |
| 19:57.17 | Wizzup | freemangordon: btw, did you ever try to record anything with arecord on mainline? |
| 19:57.34 | freemangordon | Enrico_Menotti: which image do you use? mine or parazyd's? |
| 19:57.43 | Enrico_Menotti | Parazyd's. |
| 19:58.00 | parazyd | then you need an according zImage |
| 19:58.10 | freemangordon | well then, my zImage is linux 4.8, parazyd's devuan image is for linux 4.10 |
| 19:58.13 | Enrico_Menotti | Ah ok. |
| 19:58.16 | parazyd | you can get it from the uImage that's on the fat32 partition (mmcblkXp1) |
| 19:58.35 | Enrico_Menotti | Ok, and convert it to zImage, right? |
| 19:58.37 | freemangordon | parazyd: care to give the command to convert uImage to zImage? |
| 19:59.00 | parazyd | if only... |
| 19:59.14 | freemangordon | Enrico_Menotti: right |
| 19:59.24 | parazyd | google shoudl know, i don't |
| 20:00.12 | freemangordon | "bencoh: uimage -> zimage is a simple dd skip=64 bs=1" |
| 20:00.41 | freemangordon | so it should be dd if=uImage of=zImage skip=64 bs=1 |
| 20:00.43 | Enrico_Menotti | freemangordon Ok, thank you, I was unable to find it again. |
| 20:00.46 | freemangordon | no idea if it works |
| 20:01.10 | parazyd | i can pop a new build if needed, and give you a zImage |
| 20:01.38 | freemangordon | let him first try with dd, it seems easy |
| 20:01.54 | Enrico_Menotti | parazyd No need for now, thanks. |
| 20:02.02 | parazyd | ok |
| 20:02.27 | freemangordon | Enrico_Menotti: you may also try with my devuan image if you fail with parazyd's one |
| 20:02.37 | freemangordon | is afk |
| 20:02.42 | Enrico_Menotti | Ok. I will try. |
| 20:08.21 | *** join/#maemo lxp (~lxp@unaffiliated/lxp) |
| 20:10.37 | parazyd | Enrico_Menotti: any luck? |
| 20:11.01 | Enrico_Menotti | A minute... |
| 20:11.15 | parazyd | i started a 4.10 build |
| 20:11.23 | parazyd | so i can give you the correct zImage in a few minutes |
| 20:12.13 | Enrico_Menotti | No, the same mount failed for that file. |
| 20:14.03 | Enrico_Menotti | "Mount failed for sys/fs/selinux: no such file or directory" |
| 20:14.40 | Enrico_Menotti | No, wait, I've got a login!!! |
| 20:14.49 | parazyd | :) |
| 20:15.29 | Enrico_Menotti | parazyd Could you please tell me again user and pass? |
| 20:15.33 | parazyd | root:toor |
| 20:16.12 | Enrico_Menotti | Yes, it's working. But no backlight. |
| 20:16.39 | parazyd | that's strange, should be on full |
| 20:16.54 | parazyd | maybe it's some magic that u-boot does |
| 20:18.01 | Enrico_Menotti | Anyway, now I'm sure my standard Linux kernel, the one I built, has something wrong. |
| 20:18.16 | parazyd | https://pub.parazyd.cf/tmp/zImage |
| 20:18.33 | parazyd | here's a zImage just built |
| 20:18.45 | parazyd | but i think it's the same thing as what you have now |
| 20:19.21 | Enrico_Menotti | Probably. Thank you anyway. |
| 20:19.28 | Enrico_Menotti | I will try, at any rate. |
| 20:19.32 | parazyd | https://github.com/dyne/arm-sdk/blob/next/boards/nokia-n900.sh#L78 |
| 20:19.40 | parazyd | here's how the kernel is built |
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| 20:31.49 | Enrico_Menotti | Guys, I have a problem. |
| 20:32.20 | Enrico_Menotti | Seems my N900 doesn't go to update mode anymore. Maemo boots, however. |
| 20:32.39 | Zungo | broken update mode? |
| 20:32.48 | Sicelo | what's updated mode? |
| 20:33.14 | Enrico_Menotti | I mean flash mode... the mode you go in if you press "u" and connect the usb. |
| 20:34.14 | Enrico_Menotti | Also, if I just connect the usb without doing anything, it does not charge. It does if I press the power button and wait a while. |
| 20:35.08 | parazyd | tried taking the battery out? |
| 20:35.19 | Enrico_Menotti | No. I will try. |
| 20:35.20 | *** join/#maemo cyphase (~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase) |
| 20:35.29 | parazyd | that usually helps |
| 20:36.20 | Enrico_Menotti | In this case not, seems. |
| 20:37.52 | Enrico_Menotti | Ok, I will say what I did. After booting Devuan, I entered the shell, and issued "poweroff". Maybe wrong thing? Should I have pressed the power button to turn it off? |
| 20:39.17 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@x4d094dbe.dyn.telefonica.de) |
| 20:42.37 | Enrico_Menotti | Ok, I have been able to go again in flash mode. Pressing and holding "u" AND pressing and holding the power button. God knows what happened. I fear I will have to flash it again. :( |
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| 21:26.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((<freemangordon> but it should be something like dd if=$image of=/dev/$sdcard bs=4096)) in which case you could ommit the blocksize |
| 21:28.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | blocksize has no effect on the reslt in a dd command without skip or similar, it just tells buffer size of process |
| 21:28.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you use count= or skip= then bs= is relevant |
| 21:29.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | xz -c $image.xz | dd -of=/dev/$sdcard bs=1M |
| 21:29.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | faster |
| 21:37.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((<parazyd> try root=/dev/mmcblk1p2 i guess)) no there's a gotcha, kernel thinks uSD is mmcblk0 |
| 21:37.22 | parazyd | yes, we've resolved that |
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| 21:40.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | one thing to knmow: you can't power off N900 when charger or PC is connected to USB |
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| 21:40.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | as soon as there are 5V VBUS the device boots up |
| 21:41.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | it however enters a runlevel dubbed ACT_DEAD that mimics a shut down device with only LED flashing yellow |
| 21:44.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually the amber flashing LED is unrelated to charging on a hw level, maemo middleware does that. And maemo BME process tickles the watchdog timer in charger chip which keeps the chip from stopping charging. That's why you can't charge battery when your system is fubar, and you can't fix your fubar system (flashing) when battery empty |
| 21:44.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~bootloop |
| 21:44.41 | infobot | hmm... bootloop is when your device has broken rootfilesystem, so during reboot it fails on some service startup or kernel module load and thus reboots. This *drains* battery! And you can't reflash to stop bootloop when battery is drained. Recharge your battery by other means before reflashing. E.g. using ~rescueOS. Or external charger or BL-5J compatible other device. |
| 21:44.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~flatbatrecover |
| 21:44.55 | infobot | Remove battery for 1 minute. Insert battery. Plug powered ***NOKIA WALLCHARGER*** to device. Watch steady amber. Let sit and charge. Do NOT try to boot. After 30 min, you got either a) a booted up N900, b) flashing amber which means you can boot, c) steady amber shut off -> start over again with ~flatbatrecover while already searching for a new battery. CAVEAT! Only works when ~rootfs OK (no ~bootloop) |
| 21:45.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | WATCH OUT when using alternative OS, it usually does _not_ know how to tickle chargerchip watchdog |
| 21:46.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/charge21_500mA-USBlimit__UNTESTED.sh |
| 21:47.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~charge21 |
| 21:47.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm |
| 21:47.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~listvalues charge21 |
| 21:48.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~charge21 is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/charge21_500mA-USBlimit__UNTESTED.sh |
| 21:48.10 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 21:49.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | idly wonders what's the 21 in ShadowJK's charge21 |
| 21:49.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | sth like charge69 and charge18 ? ;-) |
| 21:51.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | oh charge24 another very common ... I don't even have a word for this marketing name strategy. *24 for car/friend/whatever URLs, 18 and 69 for XXX |
| 21:51.43 | *** join/#maemo cyteen (~cyteen@140.178.93.209.dyn.plus.net) |
| 21:52.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe 18 is specific german since you're adult at 18 here, might differ with other countries and their sexual intercourse legislative. 69 is obvious ;-) |
| 21:56.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=70rBunO4uuk https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3RHa4xdEAiE |
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| 22:05.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=z4pPboh9hDQ rotfl. I guess you need to have been annoyed by the original TV commercial a few times to enjoy this |
| 22:08.49 | Enrico_Menotti | Ok, I went to charge mode by connecting the usb AND holding the power button for a while. Now battery's up. Before I flash the device again, does anybody have any idea why now it doesn't go to charge mode as soon as I connect the usb, but I need to press the power button? (And the same for flash mode.) |
| 22:11.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | charge mode with N900-maemo is always automatically enabled when you connect a charger or USB host |
| 22:12.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | I just explained you can't power down the device when charger is connected since device automatically boots as soon as 5V applied. No matter what you do with power button, it won't stay off |
| 22:12.36 | Enrico_Menotti | Ok, but the LED doesn't flash. And the device doesn't give signs of life. And if I press and hold the "u" and connect the usb, nothing happens. |
| 22:13.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | then you managed to put the device into a limbo state where it's on but not respinsive |
| 22:13.59 | Enrico_Menotti | What would you do? Flashing? |
| 22:14.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd urgently suggest to remove battery to recover and not drain battery by keeping it in that state |
| 22:14.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | a 10s power button press *might* work too |
| 22:15.05 | Enrico_Menotti | Well, I already charged the battery. If I press the power button (while connected to usb) it starts charging. |
| 22:15.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 22:15.19 | Enrico_Menotti | And if I hold "u" and press power it goes in flashing mode. |
| 22:15.45 | Enrico_Menotti | No? |
| 22:15.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | as I already explained 2 times, it always starts charging as soon as you connect charger |
| 22:16.16 | Enrico_Menotti | Even if the LED is not flashing? |
| 22:16.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | if the LED is not flashing then something is wrong with your system |
| 22:17.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | LED is not directly related to charging |
| 22:18.14 | Enrico_Menotti | In any case, now I got the LED flashing by pressing the power button, and in the end it got green. I think I may assume that the battery is full. |
| 22:18.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's even an app to adjust (or disable completely) the LED flashing pattern for device states incl 'charging' state. It's an OS feature |
| 22:18.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, at least 60% |
| 22:18.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | 80% |
| 22:19.01 | Enrico_Menotti | Ok, so now? Should I flash again, to restore normal behaviour? |
| 22:19.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | green is not physical end of charge but some logical thing defined by OS |
| 22:19.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | what's the problem with non-normal behavior? |
| 22:19.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | please describe what you think is non.normal |
| 22:20.25 | Enrico_Menotti | The fact that the LED is not flashing as soon as I connect the USB and the fact that in order to go to flash mode I have to hold "u" AND press the power button. |
| 22:20.40 | Enrico_Menotti | This happened after I've been able to boot Devuan. |
| 22:21.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, the first is normal and the second a handling problem or a hw defect |
| 22:21.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | please refer to |
| 22:21.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~flashing |
| 22:21.56 | infobot | [maemo-flashing] http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware, or - on linux PC - download&extract http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz, cd into it, do sudo ./flash-it-all.sh; or see ~flashing-cmdline, or see ~lazyflashing |
| 22:22.21 | Enrico_Menotti | For the first, it does not flash until I press the power button. In any case, before booting Devuan these things did not happen. |
| 22:22.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#the_complete_foolproof_procedure |
| 22:23.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's no way to stop device from booting on a hw level when you attach 5V USB |
| 22:23.30 | Enrico_Menotti | Ok, I know how to flash, I did it two days ago. But I wonder whether this is the case, or I could recover the thing without flashing. |
| 22:23.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | so no such thing like "I need to press power button to make it charge" |
| 22:24.04 | Enrico_Menotti | Ok, let's say that I need to press power button to see any sign of life. |
| 22:24.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | you pressing power button while device already linked to charger will SHUT DOWN the device and it reboots instantly since it _cannot_ be powered down with charger attached |
| 22:25.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | so my suspicion is you boted into a kernel that leaves the device in a state where it doesn't show signs of life and you interpreted that as "powered down" |
| 22:26.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | attaching charger doesn't change that, so you have to press power button to reboot into sane working OS |
| 22:27.40 | Enrico_Menotti | Ok, I understand. The strange thing is that I just uploaded the kernel for Devuan, not flashed it. It should not be in RAM anymore, right? |
| 22:27.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | also allow for 30s for power up *and* shut down. The device is still cleaning up for 20s after LED and display went dark, on power off |
| 22:29.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | RAM isn't magically cleared on random triggers. When experimenting with kernels you should get used to removing abttery and unplugging from USB to reach a defined state |
| 22:29.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | battery, even |
| 22:29.58 | Enrico_Menotti | How much time removing battery? I already tried... |
| 22:30.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually I'm not even sure if the system reboots at all when pressing power button as long as charger attached, or simply does a "init 5" or "init 1" etc to change form "active" state to "ACT_DEAD" state and vice versa |
| 22:31.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | 10s should suffice |
| 22:31.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually I guess 1s suffices |
| 22:32.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | please study http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#the_complete_foolproof_procedure |
| 22:32.42 | Enrico_Menotti | Ok, I disconnected the battery for more than half a minute. This finally worked. Thank you. No need to reflash. |
| 22:32.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | removing battery is the only failsafe way to get device into a known state after flashing |
| 22:32.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | (incl EAMload) |
| 22:33.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | RAMload* |
| 22:33.34 | Enrico_Menotti | Yes, I just did not expect to have to do that for such a long time. |
| 22:34.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess it's not needed for a long time, the system should crash hard from blackout within milliseconds |
| 22:34.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless you keep USB attached ;-P |
| 22:35.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | charger will power the system until watchdog kicks in, which is ~15s |
| 22:35.54 | Enrico_Menotti | No, I disconnected and reconnected the battery, without usb, many times, without success, until this last time (when I wated ~30 s). |
| 22:36.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | and actually seen many devices come up with amber steady LED after 20min on charger without battery inserted |
| 22:36.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | wow, then N900 is a better hardware than I ever expected :-) |
| 22:36.59 | Enrico_Menotti | :) |
| 22:38.14 | Enrico_Menotti | In any case, now everything's ok. Next step: trying to understand why the new kernel I built is not booting at all. |
| 22:38.18 | Enrico_Menotti | But this is for tomorrow. Now, bed time. |
| 22:38.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | when CPU enters zeroclock mode and RAM does suspend powersafe autorefresh, the power consumption may be very low indeed |
| 22:39.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | the lowest standby current we seen with fully booted system is ~2mA iirc |
| 22:39.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | when doing suspend2ram |
| 22:40.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | where the latter more helps with keeping CPU un unclocked mode than with cutting down on CPUs power consumption |
| 22:41.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/ un / in / |
| 22:41.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | another kernel might be more relaxed and not start clocks at all until e.g. you connect charger |
| 22:42.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | a trick that usually helps: press power button while _battery_removed_ --> instant blackout from CPU ramping up and draining buffer capacitors |
| 22:46.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | no idea if your kernel you RAMloaded might have enetered suspend2ram state, or whatever. So yes it's possible a loaded kernel survives even 10 or more seconds of battery removal |
| 22:56.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>why now it doesn't go to charge mode as soon as I connect the usb, but I need to press the power button? (And the same for flash mode.)<< for flash mode all explained above applies accordingly: flash mode only entered during bootloader pjase. When device is still running a kernel it won't even enter bootloader. You pressing power button for 8?s however powered down the device and in the next millisecond it gets booted up again, which |
| 22:56.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | means it enters bootloader and the bootloader detects "u" held down etc |
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