IRC log for #maemo on 20170401

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00:22.41*** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | "firmware" see ~lf ~tabletsdev ~combined ~emmc ~flasher sdk: ~sb | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet
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09:01.04Enrico_MenottiHello. I am trying to install packages from repository.maemo.org/extras/, via command line. If I browse there, the page is responding and I can download packages, but if I use apt-get it stops at connecting to the website. On the application manager the repository seems to be configured correctly.
09:01.39KotCzarnyuse apt-cache policy yourpkg
09:02.06Enrico_MenottiWhat's that?
09:02.13KotCzarnywill give you info about pkg
09:02.18Enrico_MenottiOk.
09:03.36Enrico_MenottiOk, I got the info. It is available, and in fact I have been able to download it on my computer. I could install it manually. But why it is not possible via apt-get?
09:04.56Enrico_MenottiAh, well, maybe I understand. Let me try.
09:05.39Enrico_MenottiNo, I didn't get it. I am trying to install rsync. It should be apt-get install rsync, right?
09:05.57KotCzarnyyes, assuming its in repos and dependencies are available
09:06.47Enrico_MenottiFrom the web it seems it is there, in fact I downloaded it on my computer. I'll try installing the dependencies separately.
09:07.13KotCzarnyno, pastebin the error if you want some answer
09:07.28KotCzarnyand result of that policy command
09:08.09Enrico_MenottiOk. But no true error - just sticking there.
09:17.34Enrico_Menottihttps://pastebin.com/X0YHQ61A
09:19.05KotCzarnydo you have anything weird in /etc/apt/conf.d ?
09:19.25KotCzarnywhat happens if you just wait?
09:20.01Enrico_MenottiOk, meanwhile I got the error: https://pastebin.com/MKY6yd82
09:25.01Enrico_MenottiThere is no /etc/apt/conf.d. There is a /etc/apt/apt.conf.d. Inside, three files: 00maemo, 01autoremove, 99-docpurge.
09:25.36KotCzarnymaybe your connection went down
09:25.45KotCzarnyis it wifi or gsm?
09:25.52Enrico_MenottiWifi.
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09:54.36Enrico_MenottiOk, I solved the thing by a workaround. But I don't understand what happens. Let me explain.
09:55.41Enrico_MenottiIf I try to apt-get from the terminal, by typing on the N900 keyboard, I am not able to tell apt-get to go on. When it asks if I want to continue, I have the Y option, but after entering an Y it aborts. Don't understand.
09:56.38Enrico_MenottiI tried to ssh via usb. This works, but kills the access to the Internet (the wifi is still working, it seems: my router still sees the device via wifi). Also the browser is not working. Maybe a conflict, but I don't understand.
09:56.58Enrico_MenottiI had to ssh through the wifi. This way I have been able to install rsync.
09:57.22Enrico_MenottiAnybody with an explanation?
09:57.31KotCzarnyyou didnt say you were using usb for connecting
09:57.51Enrico_MenottiYes, that's true. Sorry. I didn't expect that to be a problem.
09:58.51KotCzarnyif you have conflicting network setting it usually fails. anyway, connect through wifi and ignore usb (use it for emergency and dont worry)
09:59.18KotCzarnythis will keep things simple
09:59.41Enrico_MenottiOk, I was using usb to transfer files from the computer.
10:00.07Enrico_MenottiAnd why the N900 keyboard didn't work? Why it doesn't accept the Y?
10:00.57KotCzarnywhere is your Y ?
10:01.09KotCzarnywhat shows on terminal when you enter it?
10:01.22Enrico_MenottiIt shows correctly an Y.
10:01.44KotCzarnylowercase vs uppercase maybe then?
10:01.58Enrico_MenottiI tried both lowercase and uppercase.
10:12.48Siceloi genuinely doubt the problem is being explained to us correctly ... does the Y/y type correctly in other applications?
10:13.44Siceloand you are using apt-get in Maemo's XTerminal?
10:16.47DocScrutinizer05popup notifier?
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10:18.00Siceloi've not looked at the pastebins .. pastebin.com brought my Core2Duo pc to a grinding halt earlier this week .. won't try it on N900 :p
10:18.04DocScrutinizer05seen this so many times :-P "why the damn thing stalls on apt-get install??... <hours pass by> OH DAMN! It was showing a requester on device display! and I connected via ssh from my PC"
10:18.33DocScrutinizer05pastebin.com is rogue
10:20.06DocScrutinizer05well  >>Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/fremantle-1.3/free/a/attr/libattr1_2.4.43-1_armel.deb  Could not connect to repository.maemo.org:80 (213.128.137.22), connection timed out<<
10:21.02DocScrutinizer05first generic advice: try again later
10:21.56Enrico_MenottiSicelo Yes I tried with apt-get in Maemo's XTerminal.
10:22.07Enrico_MenottiGot the problem in telling it the Y.
10:22.20Enrico_MenottiI tried via ssh on wifi and it worked.
10:22.50DocScrutinizer05http://monitor.maemo.org/ganglia/?c=maemo&h=blade-a&m=load_one&r=2hr&s=by%20name&hc=4&mc=2
10:23.26Enrico_MenottiIf I ssh via usb, after that I am unable to connect to the Internet. I solved by rebooting the N900.
10:23.47KotCzarnysicelo: try adding /raw/ after the domain, makes it lighter
10:24.00KotCzarny(for pastebin.com)
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10:25.29DocScrutinizer05Enrico_Menotti: well, ssh via USB might mean you manually forced a quite 'unusual' network config
10:25.59KotCzarnyalso, if you use firefox, install noscript extension, much recommended, also from security point of view
10:27.56DocScrutinizer05Enrico_Menotti: generally when plugging in USB you should be careful about state of device not 'normal' (unless it's a USB charger, not PC)
10:30.00DocScrutinizer05e.g. USB mASS stoRAGE mode umounts your MyDocs to export it to USB, so any apps that might use MyDocs (see ~optification) may stop to work, and trying to *install* such apps will cause massive havoc
10:31.13DocScrutinizer05not quite sure, but even HAM might use a temporary dir on MyDoc, so running HAM while mass storage mode would also be a pretty bad idea then
10:32.56DocScrutinizer05Enrico_Menotti: as a general advice, when you have a WLAN access point, never use USB for anything other than charging and maybe an occasional access to mass storage for copying media files etc, during which you don't use the device for any activities
10:36.24DocScrutinizer05Enrico_Menotti: I almost never connect IroN900 to my PC via USB, yet I'm logged in to the device via ssh and WLAN almiost 50% of the time, which is so much more convenient than typing on maemo xterm. And every night a backup cronjob rsyncs stuff to my PC automatically
10:38.09DocScrutinizer05IroN900 connects to WLAN as soon as I come home and I don't need to worry a single second about it. Often even the ssh session stays established when I wasn't out too long :-)
10:39.39DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# uptime
10:39.40DocScrutinizer05<PROTECTED>
10:44.12freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: if there are files opened in MyDocs, it is not exported via mass storage
10:44.27DocScrutinizer05yep
10:45.05freemangordon"device storage in use" or somesuch
10:45.14DocScrutinizer05BUT, if there are none opened, then when it gets exported then stupid apps my create and open files in the mountpoint dir X-P
10:45.20freemangordonsure
10:45.33freemangordoncamera-ui2 does it :D
10:45.53Enrico_MenottiDocScrutinizer05 I just issued ifup usb0 on the N900 (XTerminal), in PC suite mode. On the PC, set the host side of the connection to be 192.168.2.14. Then ssh 192.168.2.15.
10:45.55DocScrutinizer05the old linux pun, use up all disk space in a file hidden under a mountpoint ;-P
10:46.07Enrico_MenottiAfter this, the N900 does not connect to the Internet anymore.
10:46.16Enrico_MenottiEven if unplugged. I had to reboot it.
10:46.16freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: and what is your GW/DNS?
10:47.05DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: irrelevant, for sure not 192.168.2.14.
10:47.18freemangordonyou can;t access internet if you don;t have gateway setup, and your device cannot resolve names without DNS
10:47.46DocScrutinizer05Enrico_Menotti: you established a local network with just 2 participants and no way out of it into the internet
10:48.09KotCzarnybut he said he also had wifi running
10:48.17DocScrutinizer05~usbnetworking
10:48.17infobotextra, extra, read all about it, usbnetworking is http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking, or http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking
10:48.43KotCzarnyunless it was before/after, not during
10:48.49DocScrutinizer05Enrico_Menotti: and unplugging doesn't revert an ifup
10:48.53freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: it is relevant, because if 192.168.2.14 is set up as a GW, but PC is not set up to transfer packets between interfaces and to do NAT, no internet will be availabe on device
10:49.10freemangordonKotCzarny: doesn't matter wifi
10:49.24KotCzarnyfmg, usb networking mangles default gw?
10:49.37freemangordondepends on what he did
10:49.38KotCzarnyi mean default route
10:49.42freemangordon^^^
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10:49.56DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: with ifup usb no internet will be available unless further 'tricks' with routing and dnsmasq are done, I guess
10:50.08DocScrutinizer05see ^^^ ~usbnetworking
10:50.21freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: may we have the output of "route -n" after you have usb interface up?
10:50.53Enrico_Menottifreemangordon Ok, a minute.
10:51.02DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: please don't make Enrico_Menotti do ifup usb again ;-)
10:51.41DocScrutinizer05oh well, I guess he already did, so he's up for yet another reboot
10:51.47freemangordoncomeon
10:51.50Enrico_MenottiDocScrutinizer05 I already did it. I had to transfer files from the computer to the N900. I think it finished now, so I can get the routes.
10:51.56DocScrutinizer05aaah
10:52.04DocScrutinizer05yep
10:52.12Enrico_MenottiDocScrutinizer05 What's the problem with the reboot?
10:52.14freemangordonlast time I checked it was easy to delete a route in linux
10:52.22DocScrutinizer05Enrico_Menotti: it sucks? :-D
10:52.29KotCzarnyit's a not wise thing in linux world
10:52.36DocScrutinizer05see my uptime above ;-)
10:52.40KotCzarnyyou fix things so reboot is not required
10:52.47freemangordonwell, it is not politically correct :p
10:52.58KotCzarnyalso sucks a lot of battery
10:53.05freemangordonabout 1.5%
10:53.06KotCzarnyand time
10:53.22Enrico_MenottiAh ok. Yes, I would fix things, I also have that idea. But I need to understand how! :)
10:53.34DocScrutinizer05anyway
10:53.39DocScrutinizer05~usbnetworking
10:53.40infobot[usbnetworking] http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking, or http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking
10:53.48DocScrutinizer05*strongly* recommended read
10:53.49KotCzarnyfirst: do you lose wifi when you connect via usb?
10:54.24freemangordonguys, lets wait for the route table, everything will become clear
10:54.25DocScrutinizer05and generally, try to steer clear of usb networking, use WLAN instead whenever possible
10:55.15DocScrutinizer05Enrico_Menotti: for a start, did you try ifdown usb ?
10:55.25KotCzarnybtw. if you only move relatively small files (<1gigabite), just install tinysmb, and copy via wifi
10:57.22freemangordonKotCzarny: is that GB or Gb?
10:57.53KotCzarnyfmg: that's up for the reader and his patience with wifi speeds
10:58.03freemangordon:)
10:58.28Siceloi've used USB networking with no ill effect lots of imes :-)
10:58.32DocScrutinizer05I use USB for data access rarely (I use my sftp://root@iron900/root bookmark instead http://susepaste.org/28993785) and I never ever do USBnetworking
10:58.49freemangordonSicelo: :nod:
10:59.13KotCzarnyi've found tinysmb to perfectly suit me, so i won't have to find cable, abuse usb port etc
10:59.21Enrico_Menottihttps://pastebin.com/xbC2wZKL
10:59.32Enrico_MenottiThis is the rounting table right now.
10:59.36KotCzarnyjust click on the desktop icon, enable smb, and be done
10:59.51KotCzarnynow, there's your problem
10:59.59freemangordonsee
11:00.00freemangordon192.168.2.0     0.0.0.0         255.255.255.0   U     0      0        0 usb0
11:00.16KotCzarnyyour computer advertisestises usb route, and not forwarding packets
11:00.23freemangordonoops
11:00.30KotCzarnyit should just work after you do ifconfig usb0 down
11:00.31freemangordonthat one 0.0.0.0         192.168.2.14    0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0 usb0
11:00.35KotCzarnyto restore connectivity
11:00.48freemangordonno, he can just delete usb0 default GW
11:00.53KotCzarnyor: route del -net default dev usb0
11:00.58KotCzarnyyup
11:01.02KotCzarnyslow typing here :P
11:01.09KotCzarnyboth ways, no need for a reboot
11:01.13freemangordon:nod:
11:01.17freemangordonBUT!
11:01.18DocScrutinizer05ifdown
11:01.28freemangordonthe question is who sets USB0 ad default GW
11:01.33freemangordon*as
11:01.39KotCzarnymaybe it gets from windoze?
11:01.43freemangordonno way
11:01.51freemangordonthis is local setting
11:02.06KotCzarnylet's wait for enrico
11:02.37KotCzarnyhow exactly do you connect/enable usb network?
11:02.38freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: what is the content of /etc/network/interfaces?
11:02.48DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/32586921
11:03.00freemangordonI suspect:
11:03.02freemangordoniface usb0 inet static
11:03.09freemangordongateway 192.168.2.14
11:03.15freemangordonbecause this is what I have here
11:03.23KotCzarnybut who would do such dastardly thing?!
11:03.30freemangordonNokia
11:03.32DocScrutinizer05good luck with setting up network sharing on your PC
11:03.53DocScrutinizer05THIS **SUCKS** big time
11:03.55KotCzarnynetwork sharing on linux is 2-3 lines max
11:04.21freemangordonKotCzarny: this is the default setting for QtCreator/scratchbox devel connection
11:04.26DocScrutinizer05since your network manager will interfere anything you try
11:04.45freemangordonKotCzarny: on ubuntu it is 2 clicks away :)
11:04.50KotCzarnynetwork manager is evil abomination of systemd devels
11:04.52DocScrutinizer05on windows it might be actually simpler
11:05.04freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: actually it is very complicated
11:05.11freemangordonyou need to play with netsh
11:05.20Enrico_MenottiOk. Thank you for all the feedback. But please let me understand.
11:05.35Enrico_MenottiSo first, I have a Debian distro running on the PC.
11:05.44Enrico_MenottiI connect the N900 via USB.
11:05.45DocScrutinizer05GOOD!
11:05.50freemangordongreat
11:06.11KotCzarnyfirst: do you require internet working via usb?
11:06.16KotCzarnyor just files?
11:06.19freemangordon^^^ that one
11:06.28DocScrutinizer05http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking#Linux
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11:07.21Enrico_MenottiDocScrutinizer05 Thanks for the links. I will read them.
11:07.36Enrico_MenottiFor now, let me just explain what I did.
11:07.56KotCzarnyif you prefer internet via vifi to stay alive, just comment out gateway line in /etc/network/interfaces (the one in usb0 contect)
11:08.00KotCzarny*context
11:08.18Sicelonot needed.
11:08.32DocScrutinizer05usb networking not needed ;-)
11:08.50DocScrutinizer05as long as you own a WLAN access point
11:09.09Siceloi meant .. no need to comment out anything.
11:09.10DocScrutinizer05it's really a PITA
11:09.30DocScrutinizer05Sicelo: err, sorry, I missed some context
11:09.43Sicelousb networking does not interfere with wifi at all. if it seems to, that's user error, not N900 issue
11:09.44freemangordonSicelo: sure, but he will have to delete usb0 route every time he brings usb0 up
11:10.27freemangordonin order not to have default GW setup through usb0, he has to comment the "gateway" line in /etc/network/interfaces
11:10.39freemangordonas KotCzarny said
11:10.54Siceloah yes .. guess i'm also getting confused here lol
11:10.57DocScrutinizer05usb networking ois really deprecated
11:11.24DocScrutinizer05it's a PITA and so much more intricate than WiFi
11:11.27freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: it is absolutely ok, and the rules are exactly the same as for the other network interfaces
11:11.38Sicelo+1
11:11.41freemangordonit is not some kind of a special net device
11:11.46DocScrutinizer05you forget to count in the mess on PC
11:11.58freemangordonthere is no mess, esp on linux
11:12.10Siceloactually the same thing happens when you want to use wifi & gprs simultaneously (yes some of us need that sometimes)
11:12.11freemangordonon windows it is tricky, but not THAT hard
11:12.24DocScrutinizer05well, when you're happy with turning your PC fronm a client into a router, then yes
11:12.45Enrico_MenottiOk, guys, sorry, please wait a minute... I will try to explain what I did... I'd like to understand...
11:12.58freemangordonthere is no ohter way, if we assume "router" is a device transferring packets from one interface to another
11:13.07freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: ok
11:13.18DocScrutinizer05I'm out, I for sure don't want to deal with USB in any way, unless I have to
11:13.44Enrico_MenottiI issued, on the PC, ifconfig usb0 192.168.2.14. This seems necessary in order to establish ssh. I admit I don't understand why the host side of the usb connection has to be that particular address. Maybe it's due to /etc/network/interfaces.
11:14.00Enrico_MenottiThen I issued, on the N900, ifup usb0.
11:14.22Enrico_MenottiAt this point I'm able to ssh from the computer to the N900 by ssh 192.168.2.15.
11:14.35Enrico_MenottiAlso here, I don't understand why that particular address.
11:14.51freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: there is no need for there address to be 192.168.2.14
11:14.59DocScrutinizer05at that point you established a LAN cosisting of two nodes: 192.168.2.15 and 192.168.2.14
11:15.11Enrico_MenottiDocScrutinizer05 Yes, ok, I understand this.
11:15.18DocScrutinizer05with no links of any kind to any other network
11:15.32freemangordonit will work with any address on 192.168.2.0 network, besides 192.168.2.15, because it is the address of the device
11:16.04freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: where did you get 192.168.2.14 address from?
11:16.08DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: seems 192.168.2.15 is hardcoded
11:16.13freemangordonnot, it is not
11:16.21freemangordonint is in /etc/network/interfaces
11:16.25freemangordon*it is
11:16.32DocScrutinizer05that's what I'm talking about :-P
11:16.39freemangordonthis is not hardcoded
11:16.39Enrico_Menottifreemangordon Don't remember any more, sorry, it was a few weeks ago, it's one of the first thing I did with the N900.
11:17.01freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: so, in short - you may assign whatever address you want to both the device and the PC
11:17.24DocScrutinizer05then softcoded X-P
11:17.39freemangordonthey MUST be in one and the same network, otherwise they won;t "see" each other
11:17.44DocScrutinizer05anyway if you want to change those addresses, you need to edit stuff
11:18.20freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: TCP addresses starting with 192.168.x.x are in the so-called "C" class networks (just a detail) :)
11:18.37DocScrutinizer05and get a 100g Vodka if your PC LAN is 192.168.2.0/24
11:19.01freemangordonrouters ususlly use 192.168.1.x
11:19.05freemangordonor 192.168.0.x
11:19.11Enrico_MenottiRight, it's subnet mask 255.255.255.0, right?
11:19.15freemangordonyes
11:19.18DocScrutinizer05HAHA do you think anything in my network is _usual_
11:19.49freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: please, let me explain to Enrico_Menotti what is going on :)
11:20.12Enrico_Menottifreemangordon Please. I'm listening.
11:20.36freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: so, by setting both interfaces in one and the same network, you will have network connectivity, BUT only for addresses on that network
11:20.53freemangordonlook route -n output you apstebin ^^^
11:21.08freemangordon192.168.2.0     0.0.0.0         255.255.255.0   U     0      0        0 usb0
11:21.39freemangordon^^^ means that for addresses starting with 192.168.2.X, the packets will be send through usb0 interface
11:21.45DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/7622474
11:21.54freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: anything unclear so far?
11:22.11Enrico_MenottiAll clear, ok.
11:22.15freemangordonok...
11:22.28freemangordonnow, what is "default gateway"...
11:23.14Enrico_MenottiSorry?
11:23.39freemangordon"default gateway" is a network interface the packets are send to, when there is no match with the adresses of the interfaces
11:23.52freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: I am continuing with the explanantion :)
11:23.59freemangordon*explanation
11:24.02Enrico_MenottiSorry! :)
11:24.11DocScrutinizer05lesson
11:24.19freemangordonin your case you have 2 of them:
11:24.34freemangordon0.0.0.0         192.168.2.14    0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0 usb0
11:24.44freemangordon0.0.0.0         192.168.0.1     0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0 wlan0
11:24.55DocScrutinizer05UGH
11:26.00DocScrutinizer05Kernel IP routing table
11:26.02DocScrutinizer05Destination     Gateway         Genmask         Flags Metric Ref    Use Iface
11:26.03freemangordonthose four zeroes (0.0.0.0) along with netmask of 0.0.0.0, mean that ANY address you try to connect (or rather send packet to) not belonging to networks 192.168.2.x or 192.168.0.x will be send through usb0
11:26.03*** join/#maemo dafox (~dafox@2a02:a448:c25a:1:7061:3b2a:37df:ded3)
11:26.03DocScrutinizer05192.168.4.0     *               255.255.255.0   U     0      0        0 wlan0
11:26.05DocScrutinizer05default         192.168.4.1     0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0 wlan0
11:26.17freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: please, hold on a secod
11:26.21freemangordon*second
11:26.56freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: usb0 is chosen because it comes in the list BEFORE wlan0
11:27.18freemangordonthus, all the packets (connections) you try to do are send via usb0.
11:27.29KotCzarny'sent'
11:27.34freemangordonright
11:27.54freemangordonBUT your PC is not setup to act as a router, so they are effectively dropped
11:28.15KotCzarnylong story short, self inflicted network breakage on enrico's part
11:28.22freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: is it getting clearer now?
11:28.24KotCzarnyfixable by removing gateway from usb
11:28.29freemangordonmhm
11:28.35Enrico_Menottifreemangordon Yes, it is indeed.
11:28.36KotCzarnyor configuring pc to act as a router
11:28.54freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: ok then, explain what you're trying to achieve
11:29.21Enrico_MenottiWell, first of all understanding. :)
11:29.33DocScrutinizer05that's always a noble goal
11:29.36freemangordonyou want to understand what?
11:29.42freemangordonask your question
11:30.03Enrico_MenottiOk, ok, you already explained lots of things I did not understand by myself.
11:30.05KotCzarnybuying linux for the beginners is recommended
11:30.21freemangordonKotCzarny: this is not linux, this is networking :)
11:30.26NotKitwhen trying to run Maemo UI on HiDPI screen like 1920x1080, would the best way would be to set lower resolution in X server and upscale it?
11:30.39KotCzarnyfmg, essential part of linux is networking ;)
11:30.51freemangordonNotKit: why not native? performance?
11:31.14Enrico_Menottifreemangordon I'd like to ask a couple of things.
11:31.19freemangordongo ahead
11:31.27freemangordondon;t ask to ask :)
11:31.28NotKitinterface don't seem to be adapted for this
11:31.35freemangordonah, I see
11:31.59freemangordonNotKit: hmm, wait, it should be (tm)
11:32.14freemangordoniirc the code calculates lots of thing based on the resolution
11:32.28Enrico_MenottiFirst, in the first two lines of the routing table, the gateway for the two local networks (wlan and usb) is set as 0.0.0.0. What is this?
11:32.30KotCzarnyit should try to calculate in millimeters
11:32.33freemangordonmaybe only the icon sizes could be problematic
11:32.47KotCzarnyit's essentially what human would want
11:32.58DocScrutinizer05http://aplawrence.com/Unixart/route.html
11:33.01KotCzarnyie. relative to his finger size
11:33.32DocScrutinizer05~ask
11:33.32infobotQuestions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic.  Don't ask if you can ask a question first.  Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them.  Better questions more frequently yield better answers.  We are all here voluntarily or against our will.
11:33.50KotCzarny0.0.0.0 is ana alias for 'default network, catch all'
11:33.59KotCzarny*an
11:34.29KotCzarnybecause there are specific routes ie. 192.168.2.0/24 will be designation of your usb setup
11:34.39DocScrutinizer05Enrico_Menotti: 0.0.0.0 is wildcard
11:35.02freemangordonKotCzarny: I am not sure those 0.0.0.0 for GW on an interface actually means anything
11:35.07KotCzarnyand when particular packet dont get routed by any specific rule, 0.0.0.0 is used
11:35.30freemangordonKotCzarny: see what he asked ^^^
11:35.36Enrico_MenottiKotCzarny This is for the third and fourth line, right?
11:35.45freemangordon0.0.0.0 on the first and the second line
11:35.45Enrico_MenottiI'm concerned with the gateway in the first two.
11:35.46KotCzarnyfmg: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Default_route
11:36.05freemangordonKotCzarny: this is NOT default route
11:36.20freemangordondefault route has address 0.0.0.0, not gateway 0.0.0.0
11:36.26Enrico_Menottifreemangordon Right, I think so.
11:36.29KotCzarnybtb (house call)
11:36.57DocScrutinizer05see my spam post above
11:37.13Enrico_MenottiDocScrutinizer05 The wildcard?
11:37.18DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/6131360
11:37.50freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: you mean '*' for interface GW?
11:38.14DocScrutinizer05yes
11:38.30DocScrutinizer05and "default" for destination
11:38.39DocScrutinizer05route is more human readable in that
11:38.48freemangordonI don;t think that * means anything
11:39.04DocScrutinizer05it means "applies to all gateways" no?
11:39.12Enrico_MenottiOk, I understand the "default" in the destination, but not the "*" in the gateway.
11:39.23freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: just ignore it for now :)
11:39.37DocScrutinizer05you could have multiple gateways with differnet metrics afaik
11:39.50freemangordon"The gateway address or '*' if none set."
11:40.01freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: ^^^ this is from man route
11:40.20DocScrutinizer05yes, sure
11:40.35DocScrutinizer05"none set" == 0.0.0.0
11:40.37freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: so, this means "no gateway set"
11:40.49DocScrutinizer05aka 'wildcard'
11:41.20DocScrutinizer05or colloquial "never mind, it's an advanced feature"
11:41.25freemangordonmhm
11:43.07freemangordonI am not even sure it is possible to setup anything there
11:43.19Enrico_MenottiAh ok. So the 0.0.0.0 means that packets to those first two IP's go directly there, without a gateway, through the specified interface, or that they pass through whatever gateway is available (but there are no other gateways here at play, right?).
11:43.36Enrico_Menotti?
11:44.15Enrico_Menotti(Sorry it was a question. Not dot, question mark.)
11:45.03DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/6131360 the lyrical way: there's a network 192.168.4.x (all adresses 192.168.4.0 to 192.168.4.255 are available on this) and your interface is one of them. (end of line one)  All destinations ('default') that are NOT on 192.168.4.x are available via router 192.168.4.1 (end of line 2)
11:46.36freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: what happens is - tcp stack gets destination address, applies bitwise AND with all netmasks(third column), and compares the resulting value with the first column
11:47.01freemangordonthe first line that matches is the chosen interface
11:47.47Enrico_Menottifreemangordon Ok, I understand, but if the chosen interface is in the first two lines, since the gw is set as 0.0.0.0, does the packet go directly to its destination, or through a gw?
11:48.38DocScrutinizer05see my lyric explanation above
11:49.14DocScrutinizer05any address directly available on a defined network does _not_ get redirected to a gateway
11:49.55freemangordonsorry, had a phone call
11:50.13freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: directly
11:50.22DocScrutinizer05use route without ".n", it's waaay more human readable
11:50.36DocScrutinizer05-n, even
11:51.01Enrico_MenottiDocScrutinizer05 Ah ok this is clearer. So the gw is not set, but also not needed for my purposes, right?
11:51.09freemangordonI dislike it, as it tries to do reverse dns resolution
11:51.13DocScrutinizer05right
11:53.35freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: now, do you understand why you don't have internet when usb0 is up?
11:53.40DocScrutinizer05the 'trick' is your network stack _knows_ about all the addresses directly available in that netwrork, from own address and netmask, both in ifconfig
11:53.59KotCzarnygateway set to 0.0.0.0 for particular interface means to use default route
11:54.15freemangordonhmm, right
11:54.37freemangordonor rather "to not use gateway" :)
11:54.51KotCzarnyor 'see default gw' ;)
11:54.54freemangordonbut send directly through that interface
11:55.07freemangordonKotCzarny: I tend to disagree
11:55.24freemangordonif you have address match, no gateway lookup is performed afaik
11:55.27DocScrutinizer05for the curious geeks: I guess you could have two NIC with addr on same network. In this case gateway for LAN ("U") makes sense
11:56.30freemangordonanyway, this is very advanced routing, not usually found in home PCs
11:56.35DocScrutinizer05hmm, nope, that would be 'iface' then
11:56.39freemangordonmhm
11:57.01DocScrutinizer05nfc what for you need "gateway" in U
11:57.30DocScrutinizer05"no meaning" in U, needs a value nevertheless for filling the column in table ;-P
11:57.48freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: BTW, do you know what 192.168.0/24 is supposed to mean?
11:57.49KotCzarnyyes, there are more rules than just ip
11:58.03KotCzarny<PROTECTED>
11:58.24KotCzarny192.168.1.0/16 would mean: match any ip from 192.168.Y.X
11:58.56DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: why do you ask this?
11:59.28freemangordonKotCzarny: I would read it as addr 192.168.1.0 netmask 255.255.255.0, the point is that the number after / means how many consecutive nonzero bit we have in the 32 bit netmask, counting from right to left :)
11:59.47KotCzarnyyes, now you would need to explain what netmask is ;)
11:59.51DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: why not ask "are you aware what netmask (255.255.255.0 aka /24) means?"
12:00.08freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: because we have types in linux
12:00.16freemangordonand it is one and the same thing
12:00.26KotCzarnyall in all, thanks to n900 he gets linux/networking crash course
12:00.26freemangordonKotCzarny: I already explained ^^^
12:00.36DocScrutinizer05you lost me
12:00.39KotCzarnyfmg: yeah, i'm sick and slow wyping/reading
12:00.51KotCzarnyso bear with my mental lags ;)
12:00.59KotCzarny*typing
12:01.25Enrico_MenottiOk, right, one of the few things I still remember from my network courses at the University is that IP addresses are composed by two parts, right?
12:01.27freemangordon"what happens is - tcp stack gets destination address, applies bitwise AND with all netmasks(third column), and compares the resulting value with the first column"
12:02.02Enrico_MenottiThe network address, and the host address inside the (sub) network. If I remember right.
12:02.07DocScrutinizer05Enrico_Menotti: simply means: only look at the leftmost /N bits of addr
12:02.07freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: I guess it could be said like that - "network" and "host", so yeah
12:02.12KotCzarnybtw. did you guys heard that powervr sgx5XX source was dumped on the internet?
12:02.25freemangordonKotCzarny: yeah, some 3 years ago iirc
12:02.27freemangordon:)
12:02.30DocScrutinizer05Enrico_Menotti: or "only look at the bits where netmask bit is 1"
12:02.37KotCzarnyEnrico_Menotti: nope, that's connection
12:02.46KotCzarnytcp address is just ip
12:03.04KotCzarnyhah
12:03.10Enrico_MenottiKotCzarny ?
12:03.11freemangordonKotCzarny: lets not merge tcp and ip, ok? :)
12:03.12KotCzarnymy aprils fools joke failed
12:03.13DocScrutinizer05Enrico_Menotti: so yes, you got an IP addr and a netmask that says which parts of the IP are relevant
12:03.38freemangordonhmm, lets make it clear:
12:03.45KotCzarnyfmg: it's tcp/ip for a reason ;)
12:03.46freemangordonIP == Internet Protocol
12:03.57freemangordonTCP == Transmission Control Protocol
12:04.00Enrico_MenottiYes, the netmask says how long is the part that states the addresses of hosts in the subnet, right?
12:04.07freemangordonno
12:04.24DocScrutinizer05the /N form does, yes
12:04.46freemangordonit is the value to apply bitwise AND with the destination address, in short
12:04.46Enrico_Menottifreemangordon I mean, it's binary form states this.
12:04.59KotCzarnyhttp://31.135.195.151:20280/_tools/calc.php
12:05.03KotCzarnyhave fun with it
12:05.18Enrico_Menottifreemangordon Yes, we are saying the same thing, I did not explain my thought in a clear way.
12:05.25DocScrutinizer05>>there's a network 192.168.4.x (all adresses 192.168.4.0 to 192.168.4.255 are available on this)<<  Netmask 255.255.255.0 aka /24
12:05.42KotCzarnysee how different /N affect the network and bits
12:06.01freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: iirc it is not disallowed to have non-consecutive ones in the netmask, so "long" is not applicable here
12:06.23DocScrutinizer05the /24 means: watch only the leftmost 24 bits in the 32 bit addr
12:06.46freemangordonright, but you can;t use /N form for netmask of 255.255.255.1
12:06.55Enrico_Menottifreemangordon This I really did not know. Never seen anything of this kind.
12:07.04KotCzarnyfmg: is such mask even legal?
12:07.12freemangordonon my home network?
12:07.14DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: I think that's an ODD or even invalifd netmask
12:07.15KotCzarnylol
12:07.26freemangordonsure, it is odd
12:07.33freemangordonbut invalid? why?
12:07.43KotCzarnybecause its ineffective/useless
12:07.47DocScrutinizer05because NICs don't support it I guess
12:08.01DocScrutinizer05on a hardware level
12:08.08freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: NICs have no idea of TCP
12:08.20DocScrutinizer05ooh for netmasks they might
12:08.30freemangordonI doubt
12:08.34KotCzarnyrouters/switches might barf
12:08.36DocScrutinizer05checkout WLAN
12:08.58Enrico_MenottiAs they told me many years ago, the subnet addresses are composed by either 1, 2 or 3 bytes. The first case implies 3 bytes for the network address, the second implies 2 bytes, the third 1. These are the three classes of networks. Am I right?
12:09.04freemangordonsure, but for ethernet it is perfectly fine netmask, albeit odd and ineffective
12:09.04DocScrutinizer05hardMAC will filter for IP addr and not even wake CPU when not addressed
12:09.46KotCzarnyEnrico_Menotti: you are talking about traditional (old) subnet classes
12:09.50DocScrutinizer05that's the whhole point of promiscuous mode
12:10.03KotCzarnyin fact there might be other masks/networks configured
12:10.16Enrico_MenottiKotCzarny Ah it's something I learned in 2000/2001.
12:10.40freemangordon2 days ago I setup a netmask of 255.255.255.28 iirc
12:10.55DocScrutinizer05*cough*
12:11.13DocScrutinizer05many tools reject that
12:11.23freemangordonanyway, the rule is addr AND mask
12:11.24DocScrutinizer05and for good reason
12:11.29KotCzarnyfmg, 'it works' vs 'it's proper' are two different things
12:11.38freemangordonsure
12:11.55KotCzarnyyou can have your lan set to 8.8.8.0/24
12:12.05KotCzarnyand it WILL work
12:12.09freemangordonbut you can do whatever suits you in your intranet
12:12.15KotCzarnybut there will be gotchas
12:12.31KotCzarnyand better not to let bad habits stick
12:12.41Enrico_MenottiOk, let's try to close this question (gateway 0.0.0.0), ok? If a packet goes to an address belonging to those specified in the first two lines, and the address is found on the local network, the packet goes straight there, right? But what if the address is not found? Is the packet immediately rejected, or the routing protocol looks for a gw with address 0.0.0.0?
12:12.42freemangordonok, ok
12:13.17freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: again, stack does AND to find the interface
12:13.21KotCzarnyenrico: 'straight there' results from defined route for your lan
12:13.47freemangordonthe result of 1.2.3.4 AND 0.0.0.0 is 0.0.0.0 :)
12:13.47DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: maybe boolean AND is not a nice easy way to explain it
12:13.54KotCzarnyit's not magical, it's setup automatically when bringing up the interface
12:14.00freemangordonit is not boolean, but bitwise :)
12:14.38freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: maybe not nice and easy, but correct
12:14.43freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bitwise_operation
12:15.01DocScrutinizer05Enrico_Menotti: the check only looks at the first /N bits of your addr, and compares those to the leftmost col in `route`
12:15.28DocScrutinizer05it follows the first line rule that matches
12:15.48Enrico_MenottiYes, ok, I understand all this. Let's say the address belongs to those specified in the first two lines, ok?
12:16.12DocScrutinizer05so for 192.18.4.33 it matches "192.168.4.0     0.0.0.0         255.255.255.0   U     0      0        0 wlan0"
12:16.20freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: the first match is taken
12:16.36DocScrutinizer05for 8.8.8.8 it matches "0.0.0.0         192.168.4.1     0.0.0.0         UG    0      0        0 wlan0"
12:16.40KotCzarnyunless there are round robin routing algos running
12:16.51KotCzarnywhich would then make things more 'interesting' ;)
12:16.56freemangordonyeah, but this is advanced routing
12:17.11Enrico_MenottiOk, now. If 192.18.4.33 is actually on the wlan, the packet goes straight there, right?
12:17.27DocScrutinizer05yes
12:17.28KotCzarnyif it matches the route for wlan, yes
12:17.32Enrico_Menotti(Since the gw is stated as 0.0.0.0).
12:17.34freemangordonif your wlan is on 192.168.4.0/24 network, then yes
12:17.37DocScrutinizer05no
12:18.02DocScrutinizer05since the stack knows it's on LAN, from your ifconfig of the betwork
12:18.22DocScrutinizer05wlan0     Link encap:Ethernet  HWaddr EC:9B:5B:FD:85:51  
12:18.24DocScrutinizer05<PROTECTED>
12:18.43Enrico_MenottiDocScrutinizer05 Ok.
12:18.45DocScrutinizer05see, you got a IP addr ANd A NETMASK there too
12:19.34KotCzarnyif (ip&&mask == route dest) packet goes this way; else check next rule;
12:19.36DocScrutinizer05so it's evident you can reach 192.18.4.33 on that interface
12:19.41DocScrutinizer05no routing needed
12:19.55freemangordonKotCzarny: if (ip & mask == route dest) ;)
12:20.00KotCzarnyright.
12:20.04KotCzarnybitwise.
12:20.19KotCzarnymaybe i should work on code today ;)
12:20.46freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: exactly what I was saying, but expressed in pseudocode
12:21.17DocScrutinizer05maybe ask if Enrico_Menotti is a coder, first?
12:21.21KotCzarnys/should/shouldn't/
12:21.23KotCzarnydoh.
12:21.44freemangordonand this is the way it works, unless there are some advanced routing rules setup, we won;t elaborate on here and now :)
12:22.01KotCzarnyfmg, and firewall! dont forget about firewall rules ;)
12:22.14freemangordonwell, but routing has been already done
12:22.32KotCzarnynot if firewall reroutes the packet or does nat ;)
12:22.40freemangordonyeah, right
12:23.02freemangordonI guess you mean snat :p
12:23.07KotCzarnyboth
12:23.10Enrico_MenottiOk, I was just wondering what happens if the address matches that first line in the routing table, but that address is not actually on the wlan. Is the packet rejected, or a gateway at 0.0.0.0 is looked for? But I don't want now to continue on this elaboration. What you explained is really useful, thank you everybody.
12:23.24DocScrutinizer05Enrico_Menotti: your problem is you got TWO gateways, which is almost *always* a very odd thing to have
12:23.25KotCzarnypacket with new ip slappen on it is still having same payload (usually)
12:23.47DocScrutinizer05well, unless you have a router you want to config
12:23.56freemangordonKotCzarny: DNAT and MASQUERADE are don in POSTROUTING tables IIRC
12:24.22KotCzarnymight be
12:24.25DocScrutinizer05OHNOES, please let's not start with iptables now!
12:24.31freemangordonok :)
12:24.35KotCzarny:)
12:25.00DocScrutinizer05we had to, when we wanted to explain how to set up PC as router
12:25.29DocScrutinizer05but as said before, rather USE A DAMN WLAN ACCESS POINT!!!
12:25.36KotCzarnyone could have fun with circle routes
12:25.50freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: at least on my ubuntu it is not needed to play with iptables in order to share your inet connection to another interface. there is a nice and easy GUI
12:25.53KotCzarnyand a little firewall rule to answer twice
12:26.42freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: http://askubuntu.com/questions/359856/share-wireless-internet-connection-through-ethernet
12:26.55freemangordonI guess it is same/similar on debian
12:27.31DocScrutinizer05well, then that tool does the iptables MASQUERADE et al magic for you. Doesn't save you from lengthy intricate explanations when it fails to work as supposed
12:27.44DocScrutinizer05which is the case more often than not, in my experience
12:27.51freemangordonI think the only thing that has to be done is to set usb0 on N900 to auto
12:28.04KotCzarnyor disable usb0 gw
12:28.25KotCzarnyor make pc route/forward packets
12:28.27DocScrutinizer05or don't use friggin deprecated USB networking
12:28.28freemangordonKotCzarny: no, as you need usb0 ip assigned via DHCP
12:28.53KotCzarnyfmg, but then he would need to setup dhcp on pc
12:28.57freemangordonthe same goes for GW/DNS
12:29.05DocScrutinizer05or read the relatively fine explanations in ~usbnetworking
12:29.07freemangordonmy ubuntu does it for me
12:29.31freemangordonit is really that simple as explained on askubuntu
12:29.49freemangordonsure, you can tweak it as much as you want
12:29.57DocScrutinizer05meh! have fun folks, i'm definitely out
12:30.22Enrico_MenottiOk, I think I understand what I need about my situation, enough to realise what is happening to my packets. Now, when has the second gw been set up? I mean: I have a wireless router, which has address 192.168.0.1, and it's set as gw for all IP's which are not on my (two) lan's, in the last line. But before that line, another line is setting 192.168.2.14 (my computer) as gw for those IP's. I need to avoid this third
12:30.23Enrico_Menotti<PROTECTED>
12:30.44KotCzarnywhen it was setup in /etc/network/interfaces
12:30.49KotCzarnyand usb0 went up
12:30.53DocScrutinizer05((when has the second gw been set up?)) with ifup, so try ifdown!
12:31.21DocScrutinizer05may work, or fail
12:31.29Enrico_MenottiSo should I look into /etc/network/interfaces and try to edit it?
12:31.40Enrico_MenottiOk, let me try to do ifdown.
12:31.45KotCzarnysure. disable gw there (only)
12:31.47DocScrutinizer05no, you should try ifdown and then don't use usb networking
12:34.28DocScrutinizer05ifup is not made to cope with your device having concurrent (WLAN) interface up and running, and you should not use it like that
12:35.14DocScrutinizer05ifup usb is made to provide full internet access via a PC that is set up to forward your traffic to the wider interbet
12:35.20DocScrutinizer05internet even
12:36.05DocScrutinizer05nobody considered you want to run it despite you have absolutely fine WLAN working
12:36.37DocScrutinizer05if you want to really explore that shite, disbale WLAN on N900 first
12:36.42Enrico_MenottiDocScrutinizer05 Ok, I understand.
12:36.49Enrico_MenottiThe ifdown worked.
12:36.54DocScrutinizer05:-)
12:37.16Enrico_MenottiI think the best thing to do is using the usb just for massive data transfer, and the wlan for the rest.
12:37.32DocScrutinizer05that's what I suggested, yes
12:37.47DocScrutinizer05only use ass rage mode
12:38.06DocScrutinizer05and don't use the device during that
12:38.19freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: wrong, you can have perfectly running wlan internet access AND working ssh through usb simultaneously. He only needs to comment that "gateway" line in /etc/network/interfaces
12:38.39DocScrutinizer05WHAT FOR FFS!!!
12:38.44Enrico_MenottiThe last point: the "Y" on XTerminal. Any idea? (But I don't want to annoy you with this!)
12:38.45freemangordonif he wants to
12:39.09DocScrutinizer05if he wants to he could install RTOS on the device, but **WHAT FOR**?
12:39.15KotCzarnyenrico, most likely similar 'self inflicted trouble story', we just dont know what you did yet ;)
12:39.19freemangordonjust because :)
12:39.45KotCzarnyenrico: you have said it works via ssh, right?
12:39.53KotCzarnywhat exactly happens in terminal?
12:39.57Enrico_MenottiYes, it works via ssh.
12:40.00DocScrutinizer05Enrico_Menotti: use lower case y
12:40.11KotCzarnypastebin
12:40.16freemangordon:nod:
12:40.30Enrico_MenottiIn terminal, when I run apt-get, it ends in asking whether I want to continue, and proposes Y or n. No Y or y works.
12:40.41freemangordonand what happens?
12:40.46Enrico_MenottiAbort.
12:40.50KotCzarnypastebin
12:40.51freemangordonerror message?
12:40.53Enrico_MenottiAs if I state n.
12:40.57Enrico_MenottiNo error message.
12:41.04freemangordonyep. pastebin
12:41.06Enrico_MenottiSeems just not to recognise the Y.
12:41.08DocScrutinizer05there _was_ some bug in apt with that
12:41.10KotCzarnymaybe you press enter and some other letter sneaks in
12:41.22DocScrutinizer05keymapping sneaks in
12:41.26freemangordonmhm
12:41.46Enrico_MenottiIs it possible that it detects me pressing shift?
12:41.52KotCzarnysure
12:42.03KotCzarnybig fingers?
12:42.12DocScrutinizer05try the key right of "T" and the key your locale "yes" word starts with
12:42.14Siceloearlier i asked - does the Y/y get recognized properly in other applications?
12:42.32KotCzarnyand again, pastebin pls
12:42.53DocScrutinizer05or what Sicelo said
12:43.02Enrico_MenottiSicelo Sorry I don't know. I will work with it and see.
12:43.41DocScrutinizer05but as I said, there *was* a bug in that
12:44.06DocScrutinizer05something in the wider topic "locale"
12:44.15KotCzarnyehehe
12:44.39Enrico_MenottiOk, so I will just use ssh or, if that's not possible, copy and paste from a text editor, right?
12:44.52KotCzarnycopypaste from terminal
12:44.57Enrico_MenottiOk, also.
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12:45.14KotCzarnyalso output of: locale
12:46.02DocScrutinizer05Enrico_Menotti: try the following:  LANG=gb_US apt-get installl .... blabla your cmdline
12:46.44freemangordonLANG=en_US.UTF-8
12:46.46DocScrutinizer05see if the prefix "LANG=gb_US " changes stuff for you
12:46.57DocScrutinizer05or what freemangordon said
12:47.06freemangordonthis is what is set on my N900
12:47.28DocScrutinizer05sorry, I'm getting dizzy with this
12:48.07DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# echo $LANG
12:48.08DocScrutinizer05de_DE
12:48.21DocScrutinizer05for whatever friggin reason :-/
12:48.29Enrico_Menottihttps://pastebin.com/CpQjJQq4
12:48.31DocScrutinizer05usually I don't care
12:48.34Enrico_MenottiMy locale.
12:48.39Enrico_MenottiIt's Italian.
12:48.55Enrico_MenottiThere something strange, though. A couple of errors.
12:48.58KotCzarnydoes apt asks you for yes oe si?
12:49.01KotCzarnytry s
12:49.03KotCzarnyor S
12:49.09DocScrutinizer05try "LANG=en_US.UTF-8 apt-get ..."
12:49.51DocScrutinizer05what's the italian word for "yes"? try first letter as suggested above
12:50.01freemangordonEnrico_Menotti: how is "yes" in Italian? "si"? try to enter S when asked
12:50.02KotCzarnyand for future, its best to keep root accoubt with kocale set to C
12:50.16freemangordonright
12:50.53KotCzarnyie. add to your /root/.profile: export LC_ALL=C
12:51.03Enrico_MenottiOk, I will consider all these options. Now I cannot test them, since I already installed my package by ssh.
12:51.06Enrico_MenottiWhat's C?
12:51.08KotCzarnytheb relog
12:51.14KotCzarnyuninstall package
12:51.21KotCzarnyinsstall again :P
12:51.38Enrico_MenottiKotCzarny Ok, but I'd prefer not. :)
12:51.52KotCzarnythen choose some small package
12:52.12KotCzarnywhat is small enough and non essential?
12:52.14DocScrutinizer05now thinking about it I guess the BUG was: apt asks for "yes/no" but expects reply in locale set
12:52.54DocScrutinizer05on a more technical level: apt localization broken for some locales, when asking for yes/no reply
12:53.24Enrico_MenottiI will tell "sì". So a capital S.
12:53.28Enrico_Menotti:)
12:53.39KotCzarnyenrico: use 3g2g-mode-selection-applet for a testing
12:53.46KotCzarnyits 8kb small
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12:54.15DocScrutinizer05Enrico_Menotti: it's a good approach to "rather not2 on may stuff kotzarny suggests. I got him on my ignore for his offensive way to force his own thoughts on others
12:54.54KotCzarnyits a good approach to ignore docs often too, as he sees only one way to setup everything. his
12:55.04Enrico_Menotti:)
12:55.10Enrico_MenottiDon't fight please!
12:55.17DocScrutinizer05thoughts that often are plain wrong or unneededly complex
12:55.37KotCzarnyenrico: what was the result of S ?
12:56.21Enrico_MenottiOk, now it's late. I have to set up myself. I have to go out now. I will test the "S" another time. Now I really can't. Thank you everybody for the useful and pleasant discussion.
12:56.44KotCzarny:)
12:57.45DocScrutinizer05test the "S"? aah Si, eh?
12:58.14DocScrutinizer05oh, you said that above
12:58.37DocScrutinizer05also heads out, for good
13:03.49DocScrutinizer05FWIW: http://paste.opensuse.org/62693600
13:06.23DocScrutinizer05so either in "apt 0.7.20.2maemo13.2 for armel compiled on Dec 23 2014 22:50:05" or in my system's locale settings (incl the locale translation files) it's fixed. Or I messed up and forgot about some detail during test
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13:17.45DocScrutinizer05related: https://lists.debian.org/deity/2012/10/msg00043.html
13:18.01DocScrutinizer05I.E. "broken .po file"
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13:29.51DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/51490349
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13:39.20SiceloKotCzarny: thanks for the pastebin /raw/ trick
13:39.56KotCzarnysicelo: i've converted to noscript extension some time ago, it really helps
13:41.17KotCzarnyand if a site fails to work without js, tough luck, i go elsewhere
13:41.53KotCzarnyit has clickable enable too, for sites you want/need to access
13:42.45Siceloi have it .. maybe i should check my config again
13:43.08KotCzarnyor click 'allow temporarily' instead 'permament'
13:47.52Siceloon another note: i think this simple code is elegant (not mine of course)
13:51.36Sicelohttp://pastebin.com/raw/SQm1Dupa
13:52.40KotCzarnyexploitable
13:52.42KotCzarny:>
13:53.07Sicelomeaning?
13:53.27KotCzarnyopening links without knowing where they will land?
13:53.55KotCzarnyahm, its msg reader?
13:54.32Sicelolol .. it just takes messages and sends them to MicroB
13:55.03Siceloseems he made it for people who need large text, as font size is not adjustable
13:55.05KotCzarnykeep in mindg your /tmp is only 1MB
13:56.23Sicelounlikely that you'd have messages that much .. anyway .. i just like the concept. i don't personally need large text
13:56.38KotCzarnyyup, nice bit of code
13:58.00Sicelooscp/gtk ..you use hildon styling or plain gtk?
13:58.12KotCzarnydepends on mode
13:58.27KotCzarnyits configurable in options
13:58.41KotCzarnysame as for oscp-remote.py
13:58.59KotCzarnywith plain getk it gets hildon styling
13:59.09KotCzarnybecause hildon uses system's gtk theme
13:59.21KotCzarnybut you can overrule gtk style in app too
13:59.40KotCzarnythough usually its a bad idea
13:59.53Sicelook.
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17:07.56Siceloi want to run CM13 on my Samsung Galaxy S4 - looks like flasher intricacies are nothing compared to the confusion in the Android world :-/
17:08.10KotCzarny:)
17:33.42NotKitdoes Fennec require non-composited mode?
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19:59.06ZungoSicelo: samsung phones are the easiest thing to flash stuff :p
19:59.14Zungoalso, if its the i9500
19:59.33Zungomeh
19:59.46Zungoyou're using proprietary blobs :(
20:00.17Zungosuddenly feels stupid
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20:03.21Sicelowell ..
20:03.50Siceloright now the bugger is not being detected when in dowload mode. i feel like flinging it to the wall
20:04.10Siceloadb does work fine. i've tried other USB ports, and cables
20:05.17KotCzarnyeither wrong usb port, wrong driver, booted instead of flashing or it's a punishment for straying away from godly n900
20:05.29Zungosicelo: you use odin for download mode
20:06.17Zungoand the samsung usb drivers provide all the drivers
20:06.49Zungoadb, "modem", download mode and stock recovery
20:07.01SiceloZungo: i'm using Linux, and the phone does not even come up in syslog .. so that's not driver issue in my book
20:07.10Zungowell, you need windows to use download mode
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20:07.20Sicelothen what's heimdall for?
20:07.23Zungoright
20:07.36Zungosomething up with the connection
20:07.36warfareSicelo: try changing the cable, Samsungs are picky.
20:07.42Zungo^ yea
20:07.54Siceloi've tried 3 now
20:08.22Zungorebooted when changing cables?
20:08.36Siceloreboot phone? yes. pc no
20:10.08Siceloby the way, adb can interact with the phone just fine (which suggests to me that the cable is fine, as well as the port on pc)
20:10.18Siceloin download mode, absolutely nothing
20:10.51Zungotry windows?
20:10.52warfareIs the cdc_acm module loaded?
20:10.58Zungohmmm
20:11.00Zungonvm
20:11.03KotCzarnyis device showing in lsusb?
20:11.06Sicelowhere am i going to get windows :p
20:11.31Zungoanywhere
20:11.32SiceloKotCzarny: doesn't show up in syslog .. definitely no chance for it to show up in lsusb.
20:11.33Zungolol
20:11.39KotCzarnynot true
20:11.50KotCzarnyif your kernel wanst compiled with 'announce new devices'
20:11.59KotCzarny*wasnt'
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20:12.21Zungohow to query kernel capabilities?
20:12.41KotCzarnygzip -dc /proc/config.gz|grep SOMETHING
20:13.24KotCzarnysicelo, lsusb queries usb tree
20:14.46Sicelowarfare: it is (was loaded when connecting it in normal mode for adb). i've removed now. will test again
20:15.21warfareOh, and did you stop adb?
20:15.38Zungodownload mode doesnt use adb
20:16.05warfareThats why it should be stopped ;)
20:16.05Zungoirrelevant...
20:16.16Zungohmm
20:16.24Zungomaybe it interferes, sure
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20:17.32Siceloit was still running in background. closed. same result
20:17.48warfareSicelo: anything in lsusb?
20:20.56Sicelonop
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20:22.42Zungoadb kill-server btw
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20:37.33Sicelook. i think i should give up for now ... noot getting anywhere
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20:38.10Siceloexact same symptoms. i rebooted pc just to be sure i don't have something left over from my adb and other sessions
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21:17.35Sicelowell ... Zungo was right about Windows .. i connected it to a machine in the office (but i have no admin permissions on it, so can't install Odin)
21:17.52ZungoOdin is not something you install sicelo
21:17.58Sicelobut this windows thing is making me wonder if i want to go ahead with this ROM business
21:18.00Zungoits just an app
21:18.08Sicelommm
21:18.26Zungoyou'd also want to have a stock rom too
21:18.34Zungoin case of problems
21:18.42Zungoor giving away
21:18.55Siceloand windows
21:18.57Zungorestoring stock also resets the tamper flag
21:19.02Sicelothat's the hard part
21:19.09Zungoyeah, heimdal is beta
21:19.29Zungoyou need admin for devices communication also
21:19.39Zungoone more thing
21:19.39Sicelostill doesn't explain why the phone is not detected on linux ...
21:19.42Zungocheck your usb filter
21:19.47Zungothat might
21:20.11Zungotried another computer with linux?
21:20.22Siceloi think i'll remain on stock. the samsung's job is whatsapp only anyway
21:20.29SiceloZungo: yes, pc and laptop
21:20.32Zungotouchwiz sucks
21:20.43Zungoyou maybe want to use odin once to root it
21:20.47Zungoand remove knox
21:20.53Zungoand bloat
21:20.59Siceloyou say odin doesn't need install?
21:21.08Zungoits a leaked app
21:21.10Zungosimple
21:21.23Siceloand what's a leaked app?
21:21.28Zungobut it does require admin privileges because of driver interaction
21:21.32ZungoOdin is leaked software
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21:21.42Zungoit's a internal samsung tool
21:21.51Siceloso yes .. i can't run it on the windows machine i tested on
21:22.35DocScrutinizer05Sicelo: settings developer options "allow kernel unlock" or somesuch, maybe?
21:23.13ZungoDocScrutinizer05: that's only on 6.0 onwards or something
21:23.22Zungoand he tried a windows machine which worked
21:23.23DocScrutinizer05yep, possible
21:23.37Zungosamsung S4 gets no more updates
21:23.45Zungolatest stock rom is 5.0.1
21:23.51Zungobased on*
21:23.53DocScrutinizer05meh, spare me from android shit
21:24.00Sicelowell device manager showed it in windows. no idea if it would have worked, although i guess it would have
21:24.13Zungoand the option is called allow oem unlock
21:24.19DocScrutinizer05my evaluation device refused adb, until I reset-factory
21:24.25Zungosicelo it worked probably worked
21:24.39DocScrutinizer05some dunnowhich rogue-fuckapp messed it up
21:24.56ZungoDocScrutinizer05: something happened or the usb development setting got disabled
21:25.13Zungousb development is not enabled by default
21:25.22Siceloand people still say android is linux ... :-/
21:25.24Zungoalso adbd is not always running
21:25.26DocScrutinizer05no, been enabled. I checked everything 5 times with experts doublechecking
21:25.38Zungoand re-enabling it?
21:25.51Zungorooted?
21:25.52DocScrutinizer05believe me, it been fucked up
21:26.06Zungowell certainly that's a odd issue
21:26.14DocScrutinizer05this shit device is absolutely un-rootable (so far)
21:26.33Sicelowhat device was it DocScrutinizer05?
21:26.47DocScrutinizer05Cat S60
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21:28.19SiceloZungo: i will try someone tomorrow who's got a Windows computer. if not, i'll have to get one of the admins at work on monday to let me install :p
21:28.44Zungosicelo: it's not installable, you need admin privileges to do the flashing
21:28.53Siceloyes, that
21:28.54Zungoit's not a program you install
21:28.56Zungoah ok
21:29.04Zungoso get all the files ready
21:29.21Siceloyes i have everything (as far as i understand) ..
21:29.30Siceloi have twrp, and the ROM i want to install.
21:30.07SiceloGearCM 13 seems to be the best thing out there for the Exynos S4. you can let me know if there's better
21:30.20Zungoonce you flash recovery you're done with odin, make sure to delete /system/etc/install-recovery.sh
21:30.51ZungoInteresting
21:30.54Zungoi should check that out
21:31.17Zungoor maybe not, i left the phone stock and i gave it away
21:31.27Zungoits still around but now i have a nexus 5x
21:31.47SiceloZungo: don't i need it to also flash the ROM?
21:31.56Sicelo(odin)
21:32.11Zungoodin only does tar files
21:32.25Zungotar files containing .imgs with the partition names
21:32.43Zungofor zips you use recovery
21:32.51Siceloso wait - the TWRP i have is .img :-/
21:33.00Siceloshould i tar it up?
21:33.08Zungorename it recovery.img and tar it
21:33.11Zungothat should work
21:33.26Zungoisnt there a tar version on the website?
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21:33.59Zungothe samsung tars are a bit odd, 7-zip reports wrong eol
21:34.09Zungobad eol*
21:34.17Zungounexpected eol**
21:34.20Sicelohttps://www.androidfilehost.com/?fid=673368273298920000
21:34.28Siceloum .. wrong link
21:34.39Sicelohttps://dl.twrp.me/i9500/twrp-2.8.7.0-i9500.img.html
21:34.45Sicelono tar there
21:35.23Zungogo up a directory
21:36.02Zungosicelo, there is
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21:36.15Zungohttps://dl.twrp.me/i9500/
21:36.30Sicelook i see it.
21:36.31Zungothey DO make tar versions of the recovery
21:36.33Zungook
21:36.34Sicelothanks
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21:37.13Siceloso i flash this with odin
21:37.53Sicelonext? i presume i flash my rom .. which i guess can be done in TWRP? rom file has to be on SD? file format?
21:39.37Sicelothe rom i downloaded came as a zip file, https://www.androidfilehost.com/?fid=601300970940399905, which comes from https://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-s4/i9500-orig-develop/gearcm-optimized-cyanogenmod-12-1-t3283820
21:40.02Zungoyou cant boot back to touchwiz until /system/etc/install-recovery.sh is deleted or the rom is flashed
21:40.21Zungogearcm is cm12.1, mind
21:40.24Zungonot 13
21:40.44Siceloam i able to delete that from twrp? or something else is needed?
21:41.00Zungoyes, in fact twrp should tell you about it when exiting it
21:41.04Zungooh
21:41.14Zungoyou also need google drivers on windows for using adb in twrp
21:41.16Zungojust in case
21:41.30Zungowell not sure about twrp but that was the case with CM
21:41.57Siceloi for sure hope it will still at least let me use adb on linux lol. otherwise ..
21:42.28Sicelolooks like the later version of gearcm is cm13 .. unless i didn't understand something
22:02.36DocScrutinizer05Sicelo: aiui all you need on linux is adb and fastboot
22:03.07DocScrutinizer05both are pretty basic and should work flalessly whe run as root
22:10.45SiceloZungo: recommendations for what i should replace touchwiz with?
22:11.04Zungohmm
22:11.07Zungoi am not sure
22:11.28Zungocm should be great choice for a pure android experience, sicelo
22:11.37Sicelocool
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