| 00:40.59 | *** join/#maemo infobot (ibot@rikers.org) |
| 00:40.59 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | "firmware" see ~lf ~tabletsdev ~combined ~emmc ~flasher sdk: ~sb | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |
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| 02:48.30 | totalizator | weird issue - ncdu reports my /opt usage ~800MB but when I df -h it's: |
| 02:48.32 | totalizator | /home/opt 2.0G 1.8G 55.3M 97% /opt |
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| 02:49.16 | totalizator | Free inodes: 92879 |
| 02:49.20 | totalizator | any ideas? |
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| 03:02.18 | L29Ah | some big file is open and removed? |
| 03:03.07 | L29Ah | files won't get removed before every process stops using them |
| 03:43.32 | totalizator | I have rebooted the n900 many times since I discovered this issue |
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| 03:47.56 | L29Ah | then maybe you have a huge number of <4kB files? |
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| 04:03.14 | totalizator | like above Free inodes: 92879 and the total files count is 25388 |
| 04:12.40 | Maxdamantus | What does normal du say? |
| 04:13.37 | L29Ah | are you sure you ran ncdu as root? |
| 04:14.21 | totalizator | du: /home/opt 2.0G 1.8G 55.3M 97% /opt |
| 04:14.36 | totalizator | as root, ofc |
| 04:14.38 | Maxdamantus | totalizator: that looks like df |
| 04:14.50 | totalizator | oh gosh, sry |
| 04:15.29 | Maxdamantus | Oh, right. |
| 04:15.44 | Maxdamantus | Usually maemo has a single partition for /home |
| 04:16.00 | totalizator | du -sh /opt |
| 04:16.01 | Maxdamantus | as you can see, /opt is jst bind-mounted from there. |
| 04:16.06 | totalizator | 833.8M /opt |
| 04:16.43 | Maxdamantus | and `df` tells you the usage of the entire filesystem, not just a single bind mot (since that doesn't really have a particular usage) |
| 04:17.53 | Maxdamantus | You'd probably see around 1.8G if you did `du -shx /home` |
| 04:20.48 | totalizator | gah, you're right |
| 04:21.06 | totalizator | 1.8G /home |
| 04:21.16 | totalizator | time to hunt some files |
| 04:22.19 | totalizator | fortunately ncdu has -x as well |
| 04:22.28 | totalizator | thank you so much Maxdamantus |
| 04:22.40 | Maxdamantus | alternatively, just get rid of the FAT32 mount in /home/user/MyDocs and use a larger ext partition. |
| 04:23.08 | Maxdamantus | assuming you're comfortable doing those operations and don't use the standard UMS mode. |
| 04:24.05 | totalizator | well, what I should really do is to reflash my n900 |
| 04:24.18 | totalizator | I have never, ever did it before |
| 04:25.24 | totalizator | .modest cache ~700MB >->o |
| 04:25.32 | Maxdamantus | Don't think I've reflashed since initially getting it either. |
| 04:25.53 | Maxdamantus | other than the kernel partition. |
| 04:26.04 | totalizator | it simply works, right? ;) |
| 04:27.12 | Maxdamantus | Well, I have everything under a big ext4 partition and just maintain it if necessary by booting into a system that doesn't need the eMMC. |
| 04:27.30 | Maxdamantus | sort of like you would a normal computer. |
| 04:30.17 | totalizator | I should definitely try this |
| 04:31.14 | totalizator | so I can simply remove the FAT partition, extend the rest and that's it? |
| 04:32.12 | Maxdamantus | Almost. Need to also fix fstab and change the init script that autogenerates it. |
| 04:32.23 | Maxdamantus | or use chattr to make it immutable. |
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| 04:33.44 | Zungo | hey |
| 04:33.53 | Zungo | its juesto |
| 04:33.57 | Zungo | or juest |
| 04:34.06 | Zungo | sorry for going away ;p |
| 04:34.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | ncdu? |
| 04:34.14 | totalizator | right; let me lurk into the forum then; thanks again |
| 04:34.38 | totalizator | DocScrutinizer05: ncdu is MAGIC |
| 04:34.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | never heard of |
| 04:34.53 | totalizator | haha, no wai |
| 04:35.14 | L29Ah | ncdu is love |
| 04:35.29 | totalizator | it comes handy when you need to delete some files right away |
| 04:35.52 | totalizator | or jump into the directory |
| 04:36.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | my systems also never heard of it |
| 04:38.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((<totalizator> well, what I should really do is to reflash my n900)) |
| 04:38.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~lazyflashing |
| 04:38.12 | infobot | methinks lazyflashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#The_Lazy_Approach |
| 04:38.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrtools |
| 04:38.20 | infobot | methinks jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools |
| 04:39.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | I still try to make sense from your different du values for /opt and /home/opt |
| 04:39.28 | totalizator | nice, thank you |
| 04:39.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# du -sh /opt |
| 04:39.50 | totalizator | well, opt is part of home right? |
| 04:39.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | 736M /opt |
| 04:39.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# du -sh /home/opt |
| 04:39.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | 736M /home/opt |
| 04:40.02 | totalizator | hmm |
| 04:40.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | did you mean df? |
| 04:41.04 | totalizator | when it comes to 1.8/2.0GB yes - df |
| 04:41.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/64109776 |
| 04:44.09 | Maxdamantus | du traverses a tree of directories summing the sizes of things. |
| 04:44.31 | Maxdamantus | df just asks the filesystem how much used/free space there is. |
| 04:45.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | however note df and du work different: http://paste.opensuse.org/41211497 |
| 04:46.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | du sums up nominal file sizes, while du counts used blocks |
| 04:46.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | du sums up nominal file sizes, while df counts used blocks |
| 04:47.37 | totalizator | ncdu shows both values as total disk usage and apparent size |
| 04:47.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | so on statistical average, du will report #files * blocksize/2 less used space than df |
| 04:48.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | this average can be biased when you have mostly very small files |
| 04:49.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | also this rule doesn't apply to all filesystems |
| 04:50.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | iirc for example reiserfs used to store files on byte offsets, regardless of block sizes |
| 04:50.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | other fs do compression and a lot of other funny things: ubifs, like seen on N900 / |
| 04:53.04 | totalizator | still I can't say I like the default N900 partitioning |
| 04:53.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | *shrug* |
| 04:53.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | other than |
| 04:53.27 | totalizator | ¯\_(ã)_/¯ |
| 04:53.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~optification |
| 04:53.32 | infobot | optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3" |
| 04:53.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's not all that bad |
| 04:54.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | see ~jrtools if you want larger /home |
| 04:55.15 | totalizator | tempting |
| 04:57.27 | totalizator | but after all these years? I hold strong 55.3M free in /home 32.6M free in rootfs \:D/ |
| 04:58.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | 50MB in home sound scary low |
| 04:58.24 | totalizator | dpkg -l | wc -l 2296 |
| 04:58.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | well |
| 04:58.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | you want larger /home |
| 04:59.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# dpkg -l | wc -l |
| 04:59.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | 2116 |
| 05:01.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | I even see freaking skypeui installed on my system >.< |
| 05:01.37 | Maxdamantus | rootfs 27.4G 22.8G 3.2G 88% / |
| 05:01.41 | totalizator | hah, yup, but when I'm looking at all these apps I can't recall why I have most of them installed |
| 05:02.12 | totalizator | Maxdamantus: you got me |
| 05:02.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/23331432 |
| 05:03.25 | totalizator | seems legit |
| 05:05.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# apt-cache show mp-fremantle-community-pr | wc -l |
| 05:05.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | 4566 |
| 05:05.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | though that's bogus of course |
| 05:06.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | just for some sort of relation |
| 05:08.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | du -x /home|sort -n|less |
| 05:09.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/69417514 |
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| 05:32.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((some sort of relation)) IOW most packages of dpkg -l are base system, you didn't install them |
| 05:41.46 | totalizator | true |
| 05:50.27 | KotCzarny | isnt 'du' - disk usage? not file usage? |
| 05:50.39 | KotCzarny | afair it counts blocks used, not file sizes |
| 05:52.49 | KotCzarny | it uses file size when ran with: |
| 05:52.50 | KotCzarny | <PROTECTED> |
| 05:52.50 | KotCzarny | <PROTECTED> |
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| 05:53.23 | KotCzarny | so you might run with and without -b and compare |
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| 08:57.33 | jonwil | hi |
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| 09:35.41 | Maxdamantus | ultimately, `du` also just listens to whatever the filesystem says. |
| 09:37.29 | Maxdamantus | on btrfs it counts 0 for the size of a directory. |
| 09:38.19 | Maxdamantus | $ mkdir -p a/b/c/d/e/f/g/h/i/j/k/l/m/n/o/p/q/r/s/t/u/v/w/x/y/z && du -s a |
| 09:38.20 | Maxdamantus | 0 a |
| 09:38.45 | KotCzarny | what if it really doesnt take additional space? |
| 09:38.53 | KotCzarny | create 200k dirs and do a 'du' |
| 09:39.08 | Maxdamantus | Then maybe we should all be encoding our file contents in btrfs filenames. |
| 09:39.13 | Maxdamantus | Infinite space! |
| 09:39.30 | KotCzarny | maxd, nah, i meant btrfs does some packaging tricks |
| 09:39.48 | KotCzarny | creating plethora of dirs might be a different thing though |
| 09:40.33 | Maxdamantus | It doesn't. |
| 09:40.47 | KotCzarny | create 4k dirs and check? |
| 09:40.50 | Maxdamantus | It just always says that a directory's size is 0 blocks. |
| 09:40.53 | Maxdamantus | Okay, sec. |
| 09:43.13 | KotCzarny | oh, fun, btrfs has it's own df: btrfs filesystem df /home |
| 09:43.20 | KotCzarny | i wonder if it also has its own du |
| 09:43.53 | Maxdamantus | $ (js -e 'for(var x = 0; x < 100000; x++) print(x.toString(2).split("").join("/"));' | xargs mkdir -p) && du -sh 1 |
| 09:43.56 | Maxdamantus | 0 1 |
| 09:44.14 | Maxdamantus | Its df has a special purpose. |
| 09:44.44 | Maxdamantus | It tells you about allocation of different types of chunks or whatever they're called. |
| 09:45.24 | Maxdamantus | Units that are usually 1 GiB and have a particular mode of storage (like raid1, raid0, single, dup, ..) |
| 09:45.36 | Maxdamantus | Data: total=9.94TB, used=9.94TB |
| 09:45.36 | Maxdamantus | System, RAID1: total=32.00MB, used=1.11MB |
| 09:45.36 | Maxdamantus | Metadata, RAID1: total=33.89GB, used=31.88GB |
| 09:46.25 | KotCzarny | anyway, btrfs is not playing fair then, hehe |
| 09:46.37 | Maxdamantus | Well, neither is ext4. |
| 09:46.45 | Maxdamantus | afaik, ext4 just says "1" instead of "0". |
| 09:46.52 | KotCzarny | o.O |
| 09:47.05 | Maxdamantus | Neither number reflects the disk usage of a directory. |
| 09:47.14 | KotCzarny | # du |
| 09:47.14 | KotCzarny | 4 ./123/123 |
| 09:47.14 | KotCzarny | 8 ./123 |
| 09:47.14 | KotCzarny | 12 . |
| 09:47.25 | KotCzarny | for me it shows proper numbers |
| 09:47.26 | Maxdamantus | KotCzarny: yes, you're taking the sum. |
| 09:47.28 | KotCzarny | ie 4k per dir |
| 09:47.44 | Maxdamantus | Right, so 123/123 is 4k, 123 is 4k, . is 4k |
| 09:47.49 | Maxdamantus | 4k*3 = 12k |
| 09:47.55 | Maxdamantus | There are 3 directories there. |
| 09:48.06 | Maxdamantus | If you look at `stat` on each of them, they'll all just say blocks: 1 |
| 09:48.44 | KotCzarny | http://pastebin.com/raw/wb8ffchC |
| 09:49.08 | Maxdamantus | Try `stat .` |
| 09:49.16 | Maxdamantus | it'll say "Blocks: 1" |
| 09:49.28 | Maxdamantus | The reason du tells you 20 is because it's counting the subdirectories too. |
| 09:49.44 | Maxdamantus | in btrfs' case, the subdirectories are still all 0 bytes, so everything just sums to 0. |
| 09:49.49 | KotCzarny | http://pastebin.com/raw/tfJ293tM |
| 09:50.00 | KotCzarny | stat isnt recursive |
| 09:50.18 | KotCzarny | it apparently only shows usage for current dir without contents |
| 09:50.51 | Maxdamantus | Oh, it's size that's fixed, not blocks. |
| 09:51.25 | Maxdamantus | Ah, blocks are 512 bytes, not 4096 |
| 09:51.42 | Maxdamantus | So it'll just say all directories are 8 blocks = 4096 bytes |
| 09:52.22 | KotCzarny | yes, unless particular dir grows over 4k |
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| 09:52.45 | Maxdamantus | Ah yeah, that's true. |
| 09:52.53 | Maxdamantus | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:52.54 | Maxdamantus | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:55.21 | KotCzarny | and that's because it doesnt treat dirs as metadata, just as a inode taking space |
| 09:55.55 | Maxdamantus | Well, disk usage of individual files on btrfs can easily be quite meaningless. |
| 09:55.56 | KotCzarny | and in the case of btrfs it probably allocates dirs in metadata area |
| 09:56.32 | Maxdamantus | Since you can copy a multi-TiB file in btrfs without using any additional space. |
| 09:56.55 | Maxdamantus | it can also do transparent compression. |
| 09:56.56 | KotCzarny | similar to hardlinks in ext* |
| 09:57.04 | Maxdamantus | No, different to hardlinks. |
| 09:57.15 | KotCzarny | similar |
| 09:57.15 | Maxdamantus | With hardlinks you still have the same file, just multiple names for it. |
| 09:57.19 | Maxdamantus | No, very different. |
| 09:57.26 | Maxdamantus | Hardlinking doesn't make new files |
| 09:57.29 | Maxdamantus | Just new names. |
| 09:57.35 | KotCzarny | with a write on the file what would happen on btrfs? |
| 09:57.42 | KotCzarny | cow? |
| 09:57.46 | Maxdamantus | btrfs has hardlinks too, because it's a POSIX-compatible filesystem. |
| 09:57.52 | luke-jr | btrfs is insane slow |
| 09:58.04 | Maxdamantus | Yes, any write no a file on btrfs is CoW. |
| 09:58.04 | luke-jr | I regret using it for my home |
| 09:58.25 | KotCzarny | then before there is a write, it behaves as hardlink |
| 09:58.28 | Maxdamantus | I don't feel like it's any slower than when I used ext4. |
| 09:58.41 | Maxdamantus | ext4 for me ended up feeling really slow after using it for years. |
| 09:58.42 | luke-jr | Maxdamantus: give it time, it seems to get worse with age |
| 09:58.43 | KotCzarny | which is why i've said 'similar' |
| 09:59.15 | Maxdamantus | I've been using btrfs now as my primary filesystem over 3 or 4 harddisks for .. hmm |
| 09:59.25 | Maxdamantus | Since the middle of 2013. |
| 09:59.45 | Maxdamantus | So around 4 years. How much longer do I need to wait? |
| 09:59.57 | KotCzarny | and cow on a multi TB file might be crazily fragmenting |
| 10:00.18 | Maxdamantus | KotCzarny: every write is CoW, it doesn't matter that there's a copy of it. |
| 10:00.46 | Maxdamantus | and yes, it's fragmenting, which is why people usually use the "autodefrag" option on harddisks. |
| 10:02.10 | Maxdamantus | I don't think I really use much that involves a lot of random writes into large files anyway. |
| 10:02.43 | Maxdamantus | I just have my browser's cache directory on tmpfs. |
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| 12:29.19 | Zungo | hello? |
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| 12:51.16 | enyc | Zungo: peaesp do come and go here =) |
| 12:51.24 | enyc | Zungo: try soying something clear anhd substantial about what you are talking about ! |
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| 12:51.44 | Zungo | i said something like that earlier... |
| 12:51.48 | Zungo | an apology |
| 12:52.21 | Zungo | i feel like im new again |
| 12:52.44 | enyc | Zungo: because? new to maemo again ??? |
| 12:53.03 | Zungo | you clearly dont seem to remember me.... |
| 12:53.23 | Zungo | earlier i said it's juesto |
| 12:54.28 | Zungo | enyc ^ |
| 13:03.23 | enyc | Zungo: not sure i'v e kept track ogp eople here at all tbh |
| 13:03.32 | Zungo | okay nvm |
| 13:03.47 | Zungo | have a nice day |
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| 14:23.11 | NeKit | Iâm surprised that some LXDE applications actually look fitting with gtk2-engines-sapwood |
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| 17:58.26 | NeKit | suddenly found https://gitorious.org/qemu-maemo/gles-libs?p=qemu-maemo:gles-libs.git |
| 18:01.10 | NeKit | fgles2 has X11 integration code based on XShmImage, some implementation details could be reused on top of libhybris |
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| 20:54.46 | jonwil | hi |
| 20:55.29 | KotCzarny | software efficiency at its best: https://www.theregister.co.uk/2017/03/23/cursor_devours_cpu_cycles_ms_code_editor/ |
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| 21:11.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | hi |
| 21:11.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | Trump for president!!! \o/ oh wait, he already is ;-P |
| 21:13.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | is quite happy Trump didn't start with modernizing the nuclear defense processes, but something of minor global impact like abolishing Obamacare |
| 21:16.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | It should be outlawed to have a president with ZILCH experience in politics and government whose pnly 'qualification' for the job is that he managed to make billions with suspicious construction projects and did run a cheesy TV show |
| 21:19.06 | L29Ah | trump decided he won't abolish obamacare |
| 21:19.21 | L29Ah | he's an usual lier |
| 21:19.50 | L29Ah | it should not |
| 21:20.17 | L29Ah | politician == parasite |
| 21:20.31 | L29Ah | i doubt someone who spent 30 years of his life on parasitism is a worthy president |
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| 21:25.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | to give homour to truth, it's not him who decided to not abolish obamacare, it's been 'his' Republican party representatives who simply didn't obey even when extorted, so the whole obamacare abolishing got postponed and Trump said he won't touch it anytime soon again |
| 21:27.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | the emperor's new clothes - latest revelation: he's naked |
| 21:29.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | "all dentists are parasites" (which is not my true belief even while they charge doublepluspremium for everything) - nevertheless I won't decide to have my teeth taken care of by a plumber from now on |
| 21:31.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | and particularly not by SuperMario ;-P |
| 21:33.16 | Zungo | heyo |
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| 21:45.53 | L29Ah | moves to another country just to make the dentist problems cheaper |
| 21:45.56 | L29Ah | s/moves/goes/ |
| 21:46.41 | L29Ah | i have a dremel and would offer some simple dentist stuff but noone would let me to i guess :] |
| 21:47.33 | L29Ah | big government says this is some totally serious shit worth spending lots of labour on education and certification |
| 21:49.18 | L29Ah | DocScrutinizer05: the problem is that politicians lack the usual social feedback you have in any other scope |
| 21:49.35 | L29Ah | if you don't like that dentist, you won't give one your monies |
| 21:50.07 | L29Ah | meanwhile politicians don't need to compete for your everyday decisions |
| 21:58.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, that's a systematical problem of representative democracies (in other government schemes it's not perceived as a problem) |
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| 22:09.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | to avoid incompetent decisions on clomplex topics and to warrant protection of minorities, politics are not made by polls on every single issue that needs a decision, rather representative democracies have politicians for that. The problem is now that those politicians still are elected by incompetent masses so not the smartest most competent with most integrity but the one with best PR gets elected. And then that dude does whatever he |
| 22:09.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | likes, for a long period of time |
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| 22:21.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/incompetent decisions/not wise decisions/ |
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