| 00:00.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | so? |
| 00:00.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's also last name of a dozen known persons, a wind, and whatnot else |
| 00:01.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~wiki fremantle |
| 00:02.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~wiki fremantle (disambiguation) |
| 00:05.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | parazyd: ((soon)) was about neo900, and it won't show anything public soon, we use it as internal trac |
| 00:05.39 | Juesto | why/what for? |
| 00:06.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | for fun, just for fun |
| 00:06.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, what's been the question? |
| 00:07.07 | Juesto | about neo900 what you said above |
| 00:07.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | nevermind, it been addressed to parazyd |
| 00:10.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly a reply to [2017-02-03 Fri 00:02:54] <parazyd> soon(TM) :0 |
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| 00:29.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | warfare: juiceme: Registry Expiry Date: 2017-02-07T16:26:32Z |
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| 00:29.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | whois maemo.org |
| 00:56.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw musing about a devuan.maemo.org CNAME whatever.devuan.org |
| 00:57.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe a "3xx permanently moved" is smarter though |
| 00:59.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly since aiui it can handle not only (sub)domains but actually pathnames like git.devuan.org/groups/maemo |
| 01:09.39 | sixwheeledbeast | Any future update should be PRx.x not Maemo5.x IMO. |
| 01:09.48 | sixwheeledbeast | Also go Dockers ;) |
| 01:27.56 | Maxdamantus | Just make an HTML page with a frameset that has the devuan git in one of the frames. |
| 01:27.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: teh question is what actually establishes a new minor revision |
| 01:30.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | a port of fremantle to devuan upstream (for whatever that means) rather justifies a new major revision like maemo7 than a keeping of major.minor revision at 5.0 and just calling it a new PR |
| 01:32.33 | Maxdamantus | What would actually be released? |
| 01:32.44 | Maxdamantus | A new image to flash to people's phones? |
| 01:33.19 | Maxdamantus | That would just be Devuan with some packages installed like hildon-desktop, browserd, etc |
| 01:55.32 | Juesto | Yes |
| 01:55.59 | Juesto | that's the final goal |
| 02:00.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | Juesto: sorry what? |
| 02:02.18 | Juesto | see above |
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| 05:12.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, you |
| 05:13.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | wonders how Juesto could know about I final goal DocScrutinizer05 never heard of |
| 05:13.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | and who defined that |
| 05:15.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | and how that's in any way related to the lines posted in here since [2017-02-03 Fri 01:07:07] <Juesto> about neo900 what you said above |
| 05:19.09 | Juesto | shrugs |
| 05:19.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's a prime number |
| 05:19.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | green |
| 05:21.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | why didn't we do that earlier? |
| 05:21.47 | Juesto | what are you talking about |
| 05:21.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | what are YOU talking about? |
| 05:22.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | wait, maybe you answered to some post I have on /ignore? |
| 05:23.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh indeed, sorry |
| 05:23.30 | Juesto | feel free to check the logs |
| 05:23.35 | Juesto | did you? |
| 05:24.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | and no, that's not the goal, a devuan image with some maemo packages on top is vastly pointless regarding *maemo* |
| 05:29.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | I rather think 'the final goal' of any major community activity during the last days was to eventually establish a maemo UX, on a device for which a devuan image exists that could get installed |
| 05:29.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | you won't achive that by throwing a few packages on top of a plain devuan |
| 05:29.49 | freemangordon | :nod: |
| 05:29.59 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: yep, maemo 7 that is |
| 05:30.39 | freemangordon | at least I add -0m7 to the packages I think are ported so far |
| 05:30.47 | freemangordon | package names that is |
| 05:33.41 | freemangordon | Juesto: my final goal is a new distro, maemo 5 rebased on top of devuan |
| 05:33.49 | Juesto | right |
| 05:34.16 | freemangordon | not just a couple of packages recompiled against devuan |
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| 05:44.08 | Maxdamantus | So you basically want what Ubuntu is to Debian? |
| 05:44.45 | Maxdamantus | another system that has to be periodically rebased onto Debian/Devuan? |
| 05:44.53 | freemangordon | yep |
| 05:46.22 | Maxdamantus | So .. presumably maemo is going to have its own completely independent repository? |
| 05:46.26 | Maxdamantus | just like Ubuntu has? |
| 05:46.48 | Maxdamantus | and supposedly .. someone .. will update it to have the current versions of packages from Debian .. just like Ubuntu does |
| 05:47.01 | Maxdamantus | and the updates won't get less and less frequent over time? |
| 05:47.20 | freemangordon | rather no, that is why we are going to put maemo stuff on devuan servers |
| 05:47.45 | Maxdamantus | Hm. In that case it seems like it would just be Devuan with more packages. |
| 05:48.16 | Maxdamantus | either with an additional repository, or just the standard repository where the Maemo-specific packages will already live. |
| 05:48.18 | freemangordon | is still having his first coffee |
| 05:48.39 | freemangordon | Maxdamantus: right, this is more correct |
| 05:49.07 | Maxdamantus | Mk, I think Ubuntu puts a lot of effort into its rebasing over Debian. |
| 05:49.28 | freemangordon | Mk? |
| 05:49.36 | Maxdamantus | mm/okay |
| 05:49.47 | freemangordon | sorry, I am sleepy :) |
| 05:50.01 | Maxdamantus | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uh7l8dx-h8M |
| 05:50.02 | Maxdamantus | Heh. |
| 05:59.55 | juiceme | Morning. |
| 06:00.30 | juiceme | DocScrutinizer05, unless I am mistaken warfare has set maemo.org entry to autorenew. |
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| 06:03.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | DAMN! |
| 06:04.21 | freemangordon | yeah, something got broken re your network connectivity |
| 06:04.47 | freemangordon | or it was systemd proviking kernel oops? |
| 06:04.53 | freemangordon | *provoking |
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| 07:05.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | IRC client unsolicited quit |
| 07:07.52 | Wizzup_ | Maxdamantus: more correct is adding packcages to devuan who rebase on debian |
| 07:07.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | as much as I hate systemd, I guess the culprit here either is dbus or some library mismatch |
| 07:08.00 | Wizzup_ | but to another repo |
| 07:08.08 | Wizzup_ | well systemd pushes dbus |
| 07:08.11 | Wizzup_ | anyway. bbl |
| 07:09.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | weird thing: it doesn't look like segfault |
| 07:09.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe ulimit |
| 07:10.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | doesn't linux offer a sort of trap that catches and signals ulimt excursions? |
| 07:11.28 | Juesto | gdb |
| 07:11.56 | KotCzarny | i wonder why no one invented OS overlays yet |
| 07:15.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | gdb is no trap, it's a monitor |
| 07:16.10 | KotCzarny | re: naming, freemaemo? ;) |
| 07:16.38 | KotCzarny | as in 'freemangordonmaemo' ;) |
| 07:17.17 | Juesto | lol |
| 07:21.29 | Maxdamantus | Wizzup_: sure. At least Devuan has a better chance of providing that maintenance for longer. |
| 07:21.42 | Maxdamantus | though .. I'm kind of sceptical tbh |
| 07:28.08 | Wizzup_ | sceptical of what? |
| 07:28.14 | Wizzup_ | we don't have a huge dependency on devuan per se |
| 07:28.27 | Wizzup_ | I am doing the testing/building on debian jessie |
| 07:28.40 | Juesto | maemo had packages on debian once |
| 07:28.49 | Juesto | they lasted only one release |
| 07:38.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaaaah! >> If the process continues to consume CPU time, it will be sent SIGXCPU once per second until the hard limit is reached, at which time it is sent SIGKILL<< |
| 07:39.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | SIGXCPU - never heard of |
| 07:40.06 | Juesto | :o |
| 07:40.16 | Wizzup_ | is it receiving that signal? |
| 07:41.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | no idea |
| 07:41.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | possibly |
| 07:41.23 | Maxdamantus | 20:28:08 < Wizzup_> sceptical of what? |
| 07:41.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | at least now I learned it's #24 |
| 07:41.37 | Maxdamantus | That Devuan will still be alive in a few years. |
| 07:42.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | ponders testing a killall -SIGXCPU konversation |
| 07:43.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | but it's maybe not very likely that SIGXCPU triggered exactly on relogin which been from the daily DSL-reconnect |
| 07:43.31 | Wizzup_ | Maxdamantus: hence my next statement |
| 07:44.27 | Maxdamantus | Right, my comment was really about the feasibility of distributions that are actual forks of other ones. |
| 07:45.14 | Maxdamantus | whether "Maemo" is a bunch of packages in Debian or Devuan isn't that important .. it's probably a bad idea to have it as a fork of one of those systems. |
| 07:46.05 | Wizzup_ | they are not really a fork |
| 07:46.14 | Maxdamantus | (should've said "would be", to be clear that the direction people seem to be going in seems to be the right one) |
| 07:46.15 | Wizzup_ | they just replace packages they don't want with alternatives |
| 07:46.35 | Wizzup_ | everything else is imported directly from debian |
| 07:46.42 | Wizzup_ | perhaps not even rebuild :) |
| 07:46.49 | Wizzup_ | (I would guess) |
| 07:50.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway :-(( @ man setrlimit|grep -A 10 RLIMIT_AS|grep -B 10 'unlimited.$' |
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| 07:56.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | pukes http://paste.opensuse.org/45861294 |
| 07:58.10 | warfare | DocScrutinizer05, juiceme: Yes, maemo.org is on autorenew. I'd just forget to renew otherwise. |
| 07:58.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, new thing to me |
| 07:59.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway thanks! :-) |
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| 08:02.32 | KotCzarny | coding regatta doesnt look especially good for maemo (most submissions went into mer/sfos) |
| 08:08.39 | KotCzarny | still, not bad for a 7 year old OS |
| 08:09.20 | KotCzarny | *years |
| 08:11.49 | inz | *7-year-old |
| 08:12.06 | KotCzarny | can we settle on 7yo ? |
| 08:13.05 | inz | wfm |
| 08:16.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly nasty: this F*&$!!CK!NG IRC client doesn't store any settings when quitting abnormally |
| 08:17.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly, what do devels think when they develop such shite? |
| 08:18.23 | inz | boobs, probably |
| 08:18.34 | KotCzarny | booby traps |
| 08:18.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | changing any arbitrary setup demands stopping the cliuent regularly, to not lose it when system goes down for whatever reason? |
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| 08:21.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | I mean, *at least* a "save settings" menu item, pretty please with sugar and cream on top? |
| 08:22.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | >:-( |
| 08:26.02 | sixwheeledbeast | Well is it about deciding on a major/minor revision? It seems more like starting a whole new distro from reading the back scroll from my last comment. |
| 08:31.48 | sixwheeledbeast | That probably justifies a new name, obviously keeping Maemo due to SEO/copyright benefits. Maybe a new wind codename? |
| 08:32.41 | KotCzarny | how do you call the wind before avalanche? |
| 08:33.15 | KotCzarny | or the one that blows continually over the years |
| 08:35.07 | sixwheeledbeast | avalanche isn't a wind, it's falling rocks.... |
| 08:35.29 | KotCzarny | yes, but wind can cause avalanche (rocks or snow one) |
| 08:35.45 | sixwheeledbeast | Hurricane |
| 08:37.04 | KotCzarny | foehn maybe? |
| 08:37.24 | KotCzarny | (wind from the mountains) |
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| 08:37.50 | KotCzarny | also written fohn or fen |
| 08:37.54 | Wizzup_ | DocScrutinizer05: irssi does that |
| 08:42.03 | sixwheeledbeast | In line with Maemo codenames:- Levanto, Maestro, Norte, Ostria, Pali, Pampero... Zephyros |
| 08:42.20 | KotCzarny | lol, there is a wind named pali? |
| 08:42.23 | sixwheeledbeast | Foehn seems to be related to Chinook. |
| 08:42.25 | sixwheeledbeast | :nod: |
| 08:42.56 | sixwheeledbeast | Also Ostria:- A warm southerly wind on the Bulgarian coast |
| 08:44.24 | inz | What about flatus |
| 08:44.29 | inz | The funniest wind of them all |
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| 13:03.36 | parazyd | how900: lovely <3 |
| 13:03.38 | parazyd | thank you |
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| 14:51.51 | freemangordon | sixwheeledbeast: never heard that word, where did you get it from? |
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| 18:23.19 | sixwheeledbeast | freemangordon: http://ggweather.com/winds.html |
| 18:23.37 | KotCzarny | nice |
| 18:24.28 | KotCzarny | well if doing alphabetical order, next wind should be i-k |
| 18:24.32 | KotCzarny | so knik or kona |
| 18:25.48 | sixwheeledbeast | there not alphabetical as such hence Mistral and Sirocco |
| 18:27.11 | freemangordon | sixwheeledbeast: weird. I wonder where this word comes from, it is definitely not slavic |
| 18:27.38 | sixwheeledbeast | Seem Austrian somehow from searches |
| 18:28.22 | sixwheeledbeast | Not much information from a quick search |
| 18:28.25 | freemangordon | and a wind in Bulgaria is called that? ok, could be. if internet says so :) |
| 18:28.31 | freemangordon | anyway |
| 18:29.43 | sixwheeledbeast | The American Meteorology Society... |
| 18:29.47 | freemangordon | mhm |
| 18:30.09 | freemangordon | ok then, if americans say so :D |
| 18:32.03 | freemangordon | but I definitely like the idea of continuing Nokia's naming scheme |
| 18:32.11 | freemangordon | using winds that is |
| 18:32.35 | freemangordon | maybe if we name it after Pali he will join the development :p |
| 18:33.31 | KotCzarny | tbh, it will be using mainline kernel which wouldnt happen without his help |
| 18:33.58 | freemangordon | sure. but still |
| 18:34.29 | parazyd | mistral is probably italian |
| 18:34.39 | parazyd | we have it also in the coastline in .hr |
| 18:34.39 | KotCzarny | mistral is already taken |
| 18:35.03 | parazyd | just saying |
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| 18:47.22 | xes | maestrale, scirocco... tramontana |
| 19:30.21 | sixwheeledbeast | I like the wind codenames too, here's a more comprehensive list https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_local_winds |
| 19:32.27 | sixwheeledbeast | Mistral and Scirocco where Maemo 2 and 2.1 |
| 19:58.19 | parazyd | BURA |
| 19:58.32 | parazyd | it's the strongest wind in .hr coast after tramontana |
| 19:58.41 | parazyd | blows from north |
| 19:59.18 | parazyd | ah, it's bora in english |
| 20:31.04 | joga | this has had me wondering for a while... I mostly recharge my n900 with a sony ebook reader charger (since it's the neatest ~2A USB charger I have) and it works fine, but I also have an Anker 15Ah powerbank (which is quite nice I think), I've had trouble lately connecting the phone to it. the 2A port hasn't really worked with the n900, but 1A has been fine, but like six months ago I've had to plug the cable |
| 20:31.10 | joga | in reeaally slow, then it works fine, but if ... |
| 20:31.13 | joga | ... I just tug it in quickly it doesn't start charging... I've tried different cables but it hasn't seemed there's much difference there except mechanically |
| 20:32.00 | parazyd | your microUSB might have started dying |
| 20:32.05 | parazyd | it's a known issue |
| 20:32.05 | luke-jr | I had a nightmare last night where my last N900's USB port broke off. |
| 20:32.16 | parazyd | luke-jr: haha i remember, you were travelling iirc |
| 20:32.20 | joga | I mean, it works and I can charge, but I'm wondering about the mechanical part there, like what happens when I slowly plug stuff in vs. that I "normally" plug them in regarding charging |
| 20:32.27 | parazyd | luke-jr: when one broke |
| 20:32.28 | joga | parazyd, yeah I know of the isue |
| 20:32.31 | luke-jr | parazyd: yeah :< |
| 20:33.11 | parazyd | joga: if you know how to open it, you can solder the port to the pcb |
| 20:33.18 | luke-jr | ^ not really |
| 20:33.26 | luke-jr | way too small components |
| 20:33.31 | joga | I just haven't had the nerve to solder the stuff since I use the phone all the time :D but I've tried to be really careful with it when plugging in chargers for many years now, I've had it for almost like, I dunno, 7-8 years? |
| 20:33.33 | luke-jr | *maybe* if there wasn't anything around it |
| 20:33.56 | joga | I looked into this with an actually broken unit and yeah it was tedious |
| 20:34.01 | luke-jr | joga: it's easier to solder/glue it for strength before it breaks |
| 20:34.06 | joga | veeery easy to fuck it all |
| 20:34.18 | KotCzarny | luke-jr: didnt you announce already saying bye-bye to n900 ? |
| 20:34.25 | luke-jr | (this doesn't help if you're getting off a plane and the cord snags tho) |
| 20:34.30 | luke-jr | KotCzarny: yes |
| 20:34.41 | parazyd | luke-jr: i was thinking on the pcb itself, not to strenghten the connections/joints |
| 20:34.48 | luke-jr | I haven't used mine more than 60 minutes in months |
| 20:34.55 | Juesto | And how does one fix and strengthen the usb port after ir breaks? |
| 20:34.55 | luke-jr | parazyd: that's not practical |
| 20:34.57 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 20:34.58 | Juesto | it* |
| 20:35.01 | parazyd | for those you'd need some better equipment than your usual store-bought soldering iron |
| 20:35.17 | joga | but I'm still using it and it works fine for now, I'm just wondering the reason why it behaves like that depending on the way I plug the cable in (or, the speed), and what goes on in the background, because I don't really know how the charging logic works |
| 20:35.18 | luke-jr | the hard part is getting access to it |
| 20:35.41 | luke-jr | joga: could be a weak USB port about to break; or it could be a non-spec charger |
| 20:35.52 | Juesto | design issue? |
| 20:35.53 | luke-jr | if it's a non-spec charger, you might be able to mod it |
| 20:36.19 | luke-jr | gotta short the data pins |
| 20:37.19 | joga | I've read the instructions to fix it before it happens, like scraping some stuff off and soldering the connector more tightly, but as I said, I haven't done it because I'm chicken after I sorta practiced with an already broken one that was really finicky ;) |
| 20:37.34 | joga | and I need this gorgeous phone! |
| 20:38.27 | joga | luke-jr, the charger is most likely fine, but also has been in (ab)use for some time so it might also be that it's just the culprit |
| 20:38.49 | luke-jr | joga: most devices don't care if the charger is spec compliant |
| 20:38.51 | joga | but I don't recall other devices it doesn't work fine with with either port |
| 20:38.51 | luke-jr | N900 does |
| 20:39.08 | luke-jr | if those data pins aren't shorted, N900 will refuse to charge from it |
| 20:39.12 | joga | well this is a sorta reputable company product I think, and the capacity matches the spec |
| 20:39.24 | joga | well it does charge, *if* I plug it in correctly |
| 20:39.40 | joga | and that's what I'm wondering about, the technical reason behind that |
| 20:39.42 | luke-jr | note that some Apple devices don't like the spec, so many chargers prefer Apple compatibility over spec |
| 20:39.54 | joga | yeah I don't give two foos for apple stuff |
| 20:40.01 | luke-jr | the charger companies do |
| 20:40.03 | joga | too bad I have to sometimes help people with those things |
| 20:40.36 | joga | anyway, it used to work fine with the 1A port without careful plugging in |
| 20:41.18 | joga | so what I'm still wondering is where in some code / mechanical stuff is the thing that says "yeah that was slow enough and I had the time to do this whatever, bring it on" |
| 20:41.28 | luke-jr | my guess is the 1A port is spec, and the 2A port is Apple-compatible |
| 20:41.34 | joga | but it doesn't really matter :) |
| 20:41.41 | luke-jr | and something to do with the USB cable somehow tricks N900 if you do it right |
| 20:42.01 | joga | could also be that I've damaged the n900 charging somehow during the years |
| 20:42.22 | joga | I'm still sorta proud it has been serving serious daily usage since forever |
| 20:42.24 | joga | :) |
| 20:44.13 | *** join/#maemo doppler (~doppler@unaffiliated/doppler) |
| 20:47.36 | parazyd | one here is running a web server on devuan :) |
| 20:57.03 | Juesto | :P |
| 21:00.07 | *** join/#maemo flo_lap (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 21:10.30 | Maxdamantus | If it's a non-spec charger, presumably you can do something in software to get it to still charge. |
| 21:11.05 | Maxdamantus | maybe writing 500 or something to the max_current file in sysfs at the right time, dunno. |
| 21:12.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | joga: USB jack gas VBUS and GND make-first-break-last |
| 21:12.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/gas/has/ |
| 21:12.23 | Maxdamantus | current_limit* |
| 21:12.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can see the contacts being longer |
| 21:12.59 | joga | DocScrutinizer05, what does that mean? |
| 21:13.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | D+/- short signals gastcharger, so device starts charging with up to 1A, which might make your power vank freak out |
| 21:14.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | when you plug in slowly, N900 sees no D+/- short and thus charges with max 500mA or even just 100mA |
| 21:14.22 | joga | *beavis/butthead snortle* power vank |
| 21:14.49 | joga | hmm |
| 21:15.29 | parazyd | DocScrutinizer05: how does it recognize if you plug in "slowly"? i fail to see the logic of "slowly" |
| 21:16.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | parazyd: <infobot> DocScrutinizer05 meant: joga: USB jack has VBUS and GND make-first-break-last |
| 21:16.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | [2017-02-03 Fri 22:12:42] <DocScrutinizer05> you can see the contacts being longer |
| 21:16.44 | joga | well, I guess it's a factor of many things, like the cable physical dimensions, timing etc. but this particular "plug this cable you used to use in a bit slower in and it'll work with the n900, other devices work just as they used to", which makes me sorta think the n900 port is perhaps just a bit cruddy or something |
| 21:17.29 | Maxdamantus | parazyd: because the D+/- pins are only shorted once the plug is fully in. |
| 21:17.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | see above |
| 21:17.39 | parazyd | i see |
| 21:17.42 | parazyd | cool |
| 21:17.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | D+/- contacts are shorter than GND and 5V_VBUS |
| 21:18.11 | joga | ie. I used it just fine, same cable, same n900 for quite some time (I forget, maybe 1.5 years or so), but only fairly recently noticed I needed to plug it in slow |
| 21:18.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | the 1A is ABS MAX, only with totally depleted fresh battery |
| 21:18.39 | joga | but thanks for info DocScrutinizer05, I figured you'd know how this stuff works :) |
| 21:18.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | old or partially depleted battery will draw way less than that |
| 21:19.45 | joga | I bought some cheap replacement battery a couple months ago |
| 21:19.55 | joga | but this problem started earlier |
| 21:21.21 | joga | fortunately it's not yet a showstopper, and maybe some day will just need to suck it and have something else if phones are still as relevant, but it's easy to say it's been the best goddamn phone ever for me :) |
| 21:22.09 | joga | (currently charging nicely from the powerbank) |
| 21:22.37 | parazyd | uses the 5800XM batteries |
| 21:22.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | use a decent powerbank that can deliver 1A+ and has D+/- short |
| 21:23.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | alternatively use charge21.sh |
| 21:24.13 | joga | DocScrutinizer05, it's this https://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=9SIA7BP35M4543 |
| 21:24.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, I can't crystal-ball evaluate it ;-) |
| 21:24.46 | joga | runs a cubieboard a10 for about 32 hours or so I've thought it's quite up to spec |
| 21:25.43 | joga | I charge it every couple of months or so, just keep it with me |
| 21:26.12 | joga | depends how much I need to rely on it, but it has worked perfect with just about everything |
| 21:26.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm using https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00ORNOWZK?psc=1 with my powerbank, the "Output-II" has shorted D+/- :-) |
| 21:26.56 | joga | heh I've such a gadget too |
| 21:27.05 | joga | not 100% same but similar |
| 21:27.40 | joga | but that's also good to know.. |
| 21:28.26 | joga | because I think that's actually exactly what I usually charge it from: I have that thingy in between the e-reader charger! |
| 21:28.52 | joga | and I use the "output II" to charge random stuff like n900 |
| 21:28.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw N900 chargerchip will also throw error if VBUS is too low (I guess <4V), so a weak flimsy cable or worn-out contacts in plugs can also cause trouble, the more the higher the current drawn |
| 21:29.08 | joga | (on the second port I have rpi zero keeping my taskwarrior :p) |
| 21:29.55 | joga | (takes 170mA or so) |
| 21:35.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | cat /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/charger |
| 21:35.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | 1 |
| 21:35.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | means D+/- short detected |
| 21:36.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/charge21_500mA-USBlimit__UNTESTED.sh for your convenience |
| 21:38.53 | joga | err... wtf.. I "open link"'d that from gnome-terminal, firefox asked me to open with or save, I picked open with... and it opened it in vim.. |
| 21:39.06 | joga | didn't expect that.. |
| 21:40.27 | joga | guess it saner than running it straight but I don't remember setting firefox to open stuff in vim especially if I click a button indicating I can choose something |
| 21:41.14 | joga | (it didn't say it was going to use program X like vim to open it) |
| 21:43.20 | joga | oh now I get it, I didn't actually click the "Browse"-button, but just had "open with" selected and clicked ok |
| 21:43.34 | joga | so it just sorta uses something, agh |
| 21:44.28 | Juesto | lol |
| 21:45.44 | joga | I dunno but it sorta seems exploitable :p |
| 21:46.22 | Juesto | :) |
| 22:00.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | check your mimetypes |
| 22:01.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | don't get me started about gnome! ;-) |
| 22:02.23 | joga | well, this is just a work laptop with vanilla ubuntu 16.04 ... :p |
| 22:03.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | has allergy against all executables and apps starting with g* |
| 22:04.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | gconf gmail gnonevfs... |
| 22:05.02 | joga | though I usually use a tiling wm called notion, for this one I've just had unity there since I mostly just ssh+tmux to do the actual stuff, but I find unity horrible to use otherwise, but it's mostly for when someone else walks up to my desk and asks me to do random stuff X and sometimes silly stuff is easier with something default, instead of hardcore minimalism |
| 22:05.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | ack |
| 22:06.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | just GNOME BLAERGH! |
| 22:06.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | YMMV |
| 22:07.50 | joga | well, it's alright enough, ie. the non-unity stuff like the horrendous default alt-tab -behavior etc. |
| 22:08.40 | joga | usable by keyboard etc. but it's reeeally awkard if you have even a few terminals open |
| 22:09.34 | joga | I think I've actually changed it here so it doesn't group the terminals and there's just a flat line of windows you alt-tab through, but even then it's confusing as hell |
| 22:10.19 | joga | or, I mean, that's unity stuff I think |
| 22:11.08 | joga | simply not power-usage compatible unless you just have two windows or some religious desktop switching routine |
| 22:12.34 | joga | (or okay, of course one could master it but I just think it's very tedious in many respects in comparison to other available ways to make computer do stuff) |
| 22:15.44 | joga | though perhaps it's just that my use case is typically having many terminals open and it fits better with something like tiling+tabbing, I just sorta wish more window managers had a support for concepts like "fit these here" and "split these here" etc. |
| 22:17.53 | joga | (that's why it's easier to just do work in tmux so it's always alright) |
| 22:26.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>simply not power-usage compatible<< seems exactly to the point |
| 22:27.59 | joga | I mean gnome 2 was perfectly usable as a basic not-driving-you-mad system, even though suboptimal |
| 22:28.26 | joga | but just some tiny details ruin unity desktop, in addition to hiding configurability |
| 22:28.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | gnome was always pathetic but it gets worse and worse. KDE otoh actually improved until KDE3, since then it's going fown stability and usability wise |
| 22:28.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/fown/down/ |
| 22:29.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | plus KDE has always had great configurability of everything |
| 22:30.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | something gnome devs reject as "might confuse users" _ W*T*F?! |
| 22:30.20 | joga | I never liked kde much myself and always wanted something more spartan I guess, but kde did have configurability up to filling the screen with it |
| 22:30.22 | Juesto | lol |
| 22:30.32 | Juesto | kde is too heavy imo |
| 22:31.36 | sixwheeledbeast | joga: if you like Gnome experience, try Ubuntu-MATE |
| 22:32.07 | sixwheeledbeast | s/Gnome/GNOME2/ |
| 22:32.17 | inz | DE doesn't really matter when you only run dozen terms =) |
| 22:32.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | I literally never see desktop wallpaper |
| 22:33.48 | joga | sixwheeledbeast, tried it, but just seems gnome 2 but a bit shoddy in comparison to the good olden days |
| 22:33.57 | sixwheeledbeast | I have 6 Workspaces and rarely see wallpaper either |
| 22:34.31 | joga | anyway, it doesn't matter, I can run whatever but important is that tmux is there to keep the actual stuff organized, it just helps if the wm/de is compliant with whatever one needs to do |
| 22:35.02 | *** join/#maemo deepa (deepy@wrongplanet/deepa) |
| 22:35.03 | sixwheeledbeast | I think MATE is great, it's the GNOME2 experience I like without all the gnome rubbish that came with it. |
| 22:36.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | lets start with my screen setup, with taskswitcher on top instead of integrated into bottom bar: http://wstaw.org/m/2017/02/03/plasma-desktopv17764.png |
| 22:36.28 | joga | I wish there was a simple UI that's sorta the default and for which users with simple needs and low technical skill can get help with and which works with even low-end computers if needed. that would be helpful |
| 22:36.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | wouldn't know how to achieve that in another desktop manager |
| 22:37.05 | joga | why do you need a task switcher at all |
| 22:37.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | why don't you? |
| 22:37.31 | joga | with a tiling wm I'd just "go" where I want to |
| 22:37.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe you're n ot the multitasking person like I am= |
| 22:37.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | ? |
| 22:38.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | tiling = BS, I want fullscreen windows |
| 22:38.17 | joga | you get that with tiling |
| 22:38.26 | joga | and tabs, and workspaces, and splits, etc |
| 22:39.04 | joga | I've been using it since 2003 or so and have never found anything better, tmux just enhances it with its own similar operation |
| 22:39.28 | joga | it's basically a tiling wm in cli |
| 22:39.30 | parazyd | http://pub.parazyd.cf/dev/random/wins.png |
| 22:39.44 | parazyd | task switcher is a shell script calling dmenu :) |
| 22:41.23 | parazyd | joga: take a look at dtvm |
| 22:41.45 | parazyd | http://www.brain-dump.org/projects/dvtm/ |
| 22:42.41 | joga | hmm, well it seems like uzbl for browsing (which is fine) but I don't think I'll need that now |
| 22:43.02 | parazyd | :) |
| 22:43.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, I got too many tasks/windows for that, and alt-tab works great the way I configured it: http://wstaw.org/m/2017/02/03/plasma-desktopN17764.png |
| 22:44.32 | parazyd | DocScrutinizer05: same like my dmenu |
| 22:45.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | kist your dmenu seems pretty short, while this thing has a 80some scrollable entries |
| 22:45.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | just* |
| 22:45.17 | joga | at some point where I had to shut down my computer at work, I had perhaps 80+ terminals etc windows open, no problem whatsoever navigating them and keeping them running for months |
| 22:45.27 | parazyd | only i don't alt-tab, but call it with a hotkey and type a number, or a string in the window title :) |
| 22:45.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | ugh waaay too clumsy |
| 22:45.56 | joga | not really |
| 22:46.02 | joga | depends |
| 22:46.10 | joga | I like to keep stuff in fixed layouts |
| 22:46.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | alt-tab takes me 0.1s to switch between last two apps, 0.4s to switch between last 4 |
| 22:46.52 | joga | and find what I want the way I think about those things, ie. "workspace 2" and perhaps "lower left" there |
| 22:46.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | literally just 'pres and release alt+tab' to switch between two tasks |
| 22:46.57 | parazyd | DocScrutinizer05: well right now i don't have many windows open. but it hasn't a limit |
| 22:47.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | kust like MHD task switching :-D |
| 22:47.35 | parazyd | it's nitpicking now, but you still need multiples of alt-tab presses to get where you want |
| 22:47.36 | joga | and "lower left" might also have infinite tabs with similar stuff that one can flip through |
| 22:47.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | kust MHD uses ctlr-backspace |
| 22:48.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | damn, typing broken today |
| 22:48.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | parazyd: not to switch between last two tasks used |
| 22:49.05 | joga | ctrl-alt-backspace ftw |
| 22:49.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | to switch to task befor last one: alt-down tab tab alt-up |
| 22:49.53 | parazyd | i also have alt-tab to switch two latest... but as i said: nitpicking :D |
| 22:50.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | and shift-down inverses direction that tab clicks move through the list |
| 22:50.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | pressing esc before alt-up escapes from task scwitching |
| 22:51.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | in times before X11 I used alt-F1 to alt-F12 for that sort of thing :-) |
| 22:52.11 | joga | I dunno, for most workflows non-tiling simply doesn't make any sense, so much time is wasted on just finding what to have there or shooting them in some corners or whatever, I find it makes more sense to have sorta like bins of stuff like programs running and then I can shuffle through them or simply jump to something if I know what it was |
| 22:52.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | nowadays I usually only use vt1 and vt2 on top of X on vt7 |
| 22:53.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | joga: well, that's what I use mouse and taskswitcher bar on top of screen for |
| 22:54.16 | joga | I prefer not to use the mouse for window management |
| 22:54.17 | kerio | mission control ^-^ |
| 22:54.37 | sixwheeledbeast | <PROTECTED> |
| 22:54.39 | kerio | 4-finger swipe up and i have all the windows |
| 22:54.49 | joga | hand on mouse is wasted time :p |
| 22:56.48 | sixwheeledbeast | unless you are constatly working with text then you are likely to require the mouse for your next action anyway |
| 22:57.06 | kerio | people sometimes say that |
| 22:57.13 | kerio | how fucking far is the mouse from your keyboard anyway |
| 22:57.19 | kerio | do you have four numpads |
| 22:57.26 | sixwheeledbeast | :) |
| 22:57.28 | joga | eh |
| 22:57.32 | kerio | my trackpad is right below the spacebar |
| 22:57.55 | joga | yes, I'm constantly working with text, also, mouse-requiring UIs are simply unergonomic to use with a typical laptop touchpad |
| 22:58.36 | joga | surfing the random webs can be ok, but it's not ok to have to constantly meddle with the mouse |
| 22:58.56 | kerio | ¯\_(ã)_/¯ |
| 22:59.00 | joga | not only is it slow, it's primarily uncomfortable |
| 22:59.12 | kerio | have you considered that maybe you haven't used a good trackpad instead? |
| 22:59.27 | parazyd | thinkpads are pretty comfy |
| 22:59.29 | joga | yes I have used many trackpad/touchpads/nipples etc |
| 22:59.30 | sixwheeledbeast | To each there own, that is the benefit of having an OS that you can customise to your taste. |
| 22:59.32 | joga | nipples are best |
| 22:59.46 | joga | still, when I go blind, I will not use a mouse anyway |
| 23:00.12 | parazyd | joga: you say it like it's a matter of time :D |
| 23:00.57 | joga | it might be! not that I have any condition to suggest it, but I comfort myself in the fact that my daily computing doesn't require vision necessarily :p |
| 23:02.37 | joga | for one, this particular work laptop has a goddawful touchpad, Lenovo Y50 (it was purchased mostly for its GPU at some point but I just ended up using it for now) |
| 23:03.23 | parazyd | yeah yogas are not the best |
| 23:03.25 | joga | it's the worst touchpad I've used I think, in terms of what it tries to do and how much it fails |
| 23:03.37 | parazyd | x220 touchpad isn't much better |
| 23:03.48 | joga | I bought a second hand x220 a while ago, but I disabled the touchpad, I prefer the nipple |
| 23:03.49 | parazyd | but i got myself using the nipple(?) mouse more |
| 23:03.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | rejecting taskswitcher bar because it's too uncomfortable compared to alt-tab switching and not vision-ompaired-compatible doesn't make sense. I got both and use what's more confortable to use for the task at hand |
| 23:04.28 | parazyd | in the meantime, i'm looking into the 1080p screen mod for the x220 |
| 23:05.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I can't think of any method more up to screenreader use by the vision impaired than alt-tab switching |
| 23:05.10 | joga | DocScrutinizer05, I think one should use what works, but this the desktop I find the most usable (not necessarily any particular layout, but the features) https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/07/ION3_Screenshot.jpg |
| 23:05.38 | joga | emphasis on the *I* |
| 23:05.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh! tiled tiny windows |
| 23:06.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | I can't think of any window I have open right now that I have in non-maximized mode |
| 23:06.36 | Maxdamantus | at work most of my windows are probably gitk. |
| 23:06.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | I rarely need two windows side by side on screen |
| 23:07.19 | joga | DocScrutinizer05, yeah but the thing is, it's just one keypress to fullscreen any of tem |
| 23:07.22 | joga | *them |
| 23:07.43 | Maxdamantus | and yeah, I usually have my xmonad screens set to full. |
| 23:08.02 | joga | I like the option to set up a static frame layout for whatever I'm doing |
| 23:08.59 | parazyd | Maxdamantus: hehe now i know you use a binary-based distro :p |
| 23:08.59 | joga | so I can just set any sort of programs that I can't comfortably tile with tmux or whatever visible the way I need or what's convenient, or maybe simply grouping them in a fullscreen workspace with just tabs there of different but related windows. it's just some flexibility |
| 23:09.01 | parazyd | since xmonad |
| 23:09.25 | Maxdamantus | parazyd: well, I've always installed xmonad through cabal. |
| 23:09.35 | Maxdamantus | parazyd: (which is source-based) |
| 23:09.54 | Maxdamantus | My machine at work is Debian, the one I'm using at home atm is Gentoo. |
| 23:09.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | so? I could do that too if I'd find it useful. I don't |
| 23:10.04 | parazyd | meh on gentoo i never got myself to compile haskell |
| 23:10.13 | parazyd | it's awfully large |
| 23:10.34 | Maxdamantus | on this machine I just install GHC through nix. |
| 23:10.48 | Maxdamantus | which is basically source-based but with a remote cache. |
| 23:11.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | a few years ago I had hotkeys defined to maximize and un-maximize windows. I discarded then since I never use then since years |
| 23:12.06 | joga | most of the time if have a "float split" workspaces with two mostly overlapping but depth-wise togglable frames with 1-4 frames each, so it's quick to navigate between them and I can see the bottom lines of the one at the bottom while I'm doing something else with the others |
| 23:12.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/then/them/g |
| 23:13.21 | Maxdamantus | the screen that has my terminal is usually actually wide (well, "Mirror Tall"), because I'll sometimes want to move my browser onto it so the terminal/browser are both visible while something is shown fullscreen on my other monitor. |
| 23:13.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | the point however is that user _can_ do all those things, with gnome that's pretty hard if possible at all |
| 23:14.03 | Maxdamantus | but it usually only has one tiled window (urxvt) on it, so it's basically full anyway. |
| 23:17.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not a fan of DEs that support only one approach |
| 23:17.35 | joga | maybe this guy explains something about it https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5z1DX5trng0&t=6m51s |
| 23:17.53 | Maxdamantus | What DE is he talking about that has one approach? |
| 23:17.58 | joga | (just tried to search something about it, it's sorta hard to explain the usage in text alone) |
| 23:18.01 | Maxdamantus | usually "tiling" WMs have floating windows too. |
| 23:18.12 | joga | yeah, notion also has those |
| 23:18.23 | joga | also floating scratchpad always accessible |
| 23:18.40 | Maxdamantus | I always have a particular game running in a floating window. |
| 23:18.58 | parazyd | a scratchpad is the most useful thing ever |
| 23:19.19 | parazyd | so good i ported it to dwm |
