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| 02:40.10 | Oksanaa | Would upgrading kernel-power be dangerous for N900 with broken charging port? |
| 02:42.57 | Oksanaa | Current kernel seems to be 2.6.28-10power52 , thumb |
| 02:45.03 | Maxdamantus | You should probably install u-boot. |
| 02:45.30 | Maxdamantus | rather than just another kernel. |
| 02:45.55 | Maxdamantus | that way if your userland is messed up you can boot something off an SD card to fix it. |
| 02:48.33 | Oksanaa | Not installing, upgrading. Kernel-power is already here, just haven't upgraded it for a long time. |
| 02:49.03 | Oksanaa | U-boot... No idea. We might have one SD card somewhere. |
| 02:49.25 | Oksanaa | Is multiboot the one which increases chances of device being bricked? |
| 02:49.58 | Maxdamantus | The point of u-boot if you don't have USB anymore is that if your system no longer boots you can probably still recover by booting something like RescueOS then getting the rest of the system back to a state that works. |
| 02:50.17 | Oksanaa | Because one device with broken charging port became "Guru" brick on kernel upgrade due to something-boot conflicting with kernel upgrade. |
| 02:50.31 | Oksanaa | If u-boot is safe, will install it. |
| 02:50.42 | Maxdamantus | since if your system just stops booting due to a misconfigured file in /etc or something, you might not be able to recover again without getting access to the USB pins. |
| 02:51.07 | Oksanaa | Or rootfs being full ^ |
| 02:51.36 | Maxdamantus | Yes, I can imagine that being an issue too. |
| 02:53.36 | Oksanaa | Which package? *Grimace* too many things displayed by apt-cache search u-boot |
| 02:54.22 | Maxdamantus | Dunno. I've always just used flasher from a computer (which obviously uses USB) |
| 02:54.31 | Maxdamantus | and use my own compilation of u-boot. |
| 02:55.00 | Oksanaa | Bootloader, right? Not just companion tools |
| 02:56.50 | Maxdamantus | It would be the bootloader, yes. The companion tools are probably things like `mkimage` |
| 02:57.39 | Maxdamantus | Usually with u-boot on N900, there'll be a kernel written after u-boot itself. |
| 02:58.01 | Oksanaa | What would be the minimum installation of bootloader, the least risky one? Which gives option to boot from SD card if one is installed? |
| 02:59.43 | Maxdamantus | I think all the N900 builds that are likely to be distributed will have an entry in pali's bootmenu system to load something from the SD card. |
| 03:00.18 | Oksanaa | What is bootmenu? Part of u-boot? |
| 03:00.31 | Maxdamantus | Do you have another N900 to experiment with beforehand? |
| 03:00.40 | Oksanaa | U-boot-flasher says it will replace existing kernel |
| 03:00.47 | Oksanaa | Not at hand |
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| 03:02.17 | Maxdamantus | It's a menu in u-boot, so when you turn the device on, you can choose to boot the appended kernel or run a script from the first partition of the SD card, etc |
| 03:02.48 | Oksanaa | I just want a u-boot which will not try to confli |
| 03:03.02 | Oksanaa | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:03.53 | Maxdamantus | Yeah, so you'd probably want one that has the version of kernel-power you want included. |
| 03:05.04 | Maxdamantus | Though it might be better ultimately to have a boot partition on eMMC that holds your kernels, so you don't have to reflash anything when you want to upgrade. |
| 03:05.16 | Oksanaa | <PROTECTED> |
| 03:09.06 | Oksanaa | Installing bootmenu |
| 03:09.36 | Oksanaa | Installing bootmenu |
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| 03:16.29 | Oksanaa | Changed battery. Bootmenu installed. It doesn't conflict kernel-power, right? How to check whether it auto-detects SD card to boot from? |
| 03:19.48 | Oksanaa | Leds are still not working, all the same. Wonder what the problem is... |
| 03:20.52 | Maxdamantus | When I say "bootmenu", I mean the one in u-boot, not the userland "bootmenu" that exists in some Maemo package. |
| 03:21.54 | Maxdamantus | Does `lsmod` show `leds_lp5523`? |
| 03:22.40 | Oksanaa | lsmod | grep lp leds_lp5523 10048 0 led_class 3460 2 leds_lp5523,leds_twl4030_vibra |
| 03:30.48 | Oksanaa | Same on your side? Any way to see errors of kernel modules? Because kernel modules for lp5523 exist, but lp5523 do not appear in /sys/class/leds |
| 03:31.22 | Maxdamantus | Yes, same here. |
| 03:31.59 | Oksanaa | At least, vibrator works, that's good. |
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| 04:34.32 | Oksanaa | It's all confusing. u-boot (lots of packages), backupmenu (potentially useful, auto-notices SD card?), multiboot (not good with kernel-power), recovery-boot, nitdroid-installer (not needed atm?), bootmenu and bootmenu-n900 |
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| 06:47.30 | *** join/#maemo Michael_a380 (d31f1b25@gateway/web/freenode/ip.211.31.27.37) |
| 06:56.08 | Michael_a380 | Bagged the n9 for $10.50. :) Will pick-up during the week. Can a sim card be tested without the door? |
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| 07:05.23 | hurrian | Michael_a380: you _could_, definitely do not recommend it though. you'll end up having to fish it out of the SIM cage if you do it wrong |
| 07:12.51 | Oksanaa | Better just get the SIM tray. Shipping may cost, though. |
| 07:14.49 | Oksanaa | Unless you want to drill the SIM card and put a thread through it, to make it easier to get SIM card out... But margin for error is small, make sure to not damage the SIM card. |
| 07:17.58 | Maxdamantus | Doesn't seem *that* small, given that practically any SIM card you buy is just a nano-SIM inside a micro-SIM inside a mini-SIM inside a full size SIM. |
| 07:18.19 | Maxdamantus | Looks like there's a decent amount of room in the mini-SIM part to drill a small hole. |
| 07:20.42 | Maxdamantus | (the relevance of the nano-SIM thing is that there is obviously no circuitry around the nano-SIM portion) |
| 07:21.44 | Oksanaa | Don't remember size of SIM for N9, but it's smaller than size of SIM for N900. |
| 07:22.14 | Michael_a380 | thanks |
| 07:22.26 | Maxdamantus | It's a micro-SIM. |
| 07:23.07 | Maxdamantus | er, I meant there's a decent amount of room in the micro-SIM part, not the mini-SIM part. |
| 07:23.15 | Maxdamantus | don't think you could fit a mini-SIM in the slot. |
| 07:24.18 | Maxdamantus | though if you can figure out the dimensions, I imagine you could sand down a mini-SIM so it fits properly in the slot, probably with something behind it to wedge it in place. |
| 07:24.30 | Maxdamantus | doesn't want to recommend it. |
| 07:26.28 | Oksanaa | Yes, microsim does still have some good space. |
| 07:36.37 | Michael_a380 | Very helpful, thanks. I probably not risk it. |
| 07:36.51 | Michael_a380 | *I'll |
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| 08:34.51 | NeKit | freemangordon, Russia. As for ads, sorry, mine just silently blocked them all :) |
| 08:41.58 | bencoh | freemangordon: wasn't gitorious supposed to be fully archived by archive.org at some point? |
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| 08:48.35 | KotCzarny | 'Oksanaa > At least, vibrator works, that's good.' |
| 08:48.41 | KotCzarny | snickers |
| 08:56.38 | freemangordon | bencoh: it was.... |
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| 09:24.10 | bencoh | freemangordon: did you check archive.org then? |
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| 10:58.39 | hurrian | "vibrator works, that's good" |
| 10:58.40 | hurrian | heh |
| 10:58.54 | KotCzarny | vroom |
| 10:59.17 | totalizator | ^ x2 |
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| 11:39.17 | Vajb | hmm somehow ifconfig is lost from my device |
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| 11:40.12 | Vajb | lol forgot to be root |
| 11:40.17 | Vajb | scratch that |
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| 11:42.45 | Oksanaa | Tried apkenv 42.4.0 for Fremantle from TMO, doesn't seem to work. With Petals Redux.apk, just opens a black/blank window... And slows everything down. |
| 11:44.45 | Oksanaa | Using GLES version 2, it says. Any dependencies I should have installed? |
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| 12:15.07 | Wizzup | bencoh: by archive team, I think |
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| 12:23.47 | bencoh | Wizzup: indeed |
| 12:24.00 | Wizzup | (they are not archive.org fyi) |
| 12:24.11 | bencoh | right, they're not exactly archive.org |
| 12:24.31 | bencoh | afaiu either the archive team or one of the archive team member is supposed to maintain it |
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| 13:02.18 | GoNeL | Hi! can anyone please tell me which groups normal user is assign to? I miss -a option when adding User to sudo group and now I cant root (sudo: gainroot: command not found) |
| 13:05.03 | ceene | GoNeL: your problem is not of group assignment |
| 13:05.09 | ceene | is that gainroot isn't installed |
| 13:05.19 | ceene | command not found |
| 13:05.30 | KotCzarny | ceene, maybe path issue? |
| 13:05.43 | KotCzarny | ie. gainroot modifying user profile or something? |
| 13:05.55 | KotCzarny | but yeah, checking if its installed is also good idea |
| 13:05.56 | ceene | could be, but... |
| 13:05.57 | GoNeL | it is because before doing thar i just have to write root and rootsh do the job for me |
| 13:06.01 | ceene | i don't have my n900 here right now |
| 13:06.07 | KotCzarny | i use rootsh anyway |
| 13:06.12 | KotCzarny | or ssh -l root |
| 13:06.39 | GoNeL | i'm sshing it right now with root account |
| 13:07.34 | KotCzarny | im having weird issue with oscp on n8x0 |
| 13:07.40 | KotCzarny | when running as root, audio is ok |
| 13:07.54 | KotCzarny | when running as user its garbled, as if byte order swapped |
| 13:08.23 | KotCzarny | cant even begin to think what could be the problem |
| 13:10.17 | KotCzarny | ahm. stupid me. |
| 13:11.23 | freemangordon | Pali: are you sure the stuff in /etc/init.d is not executed on maemo? |
| 13:11.31 | Pali | IIRC no |
| 13:12.10 | Pali | upstart does not have "native" support for /etc/rc*.d/ |
| 13:12.24 | freemangordon | Pali: because in /etc/inittab there is inittab:l2:2:wait:/etc/init.d/rc 2 |
| 13:12.49 | Pali | it is "emulated" by upstart service which execute then it |
| 13:13.24 | freemangordon | but still, the result is that /etc/init.d/* services are getting executed |
| 13:13.32 | Pali | I'm not sure if upstart even use inittab |
| 13:13.46 | Pali | maybe Maemo or Debian upstart doing something different |
| 13:18.07 | freemangordon | Pali: but then, why there are so much things in /etc/init.d? |
| 13:18.31 | Pali | probably legacy |
| 13:18.37 | Pali | from debian or older maemo |
| 13:19.37 | freemangordon | hmm. there is no clockd in /etc/event.d |
| 13:19.45 | KotCzarny | arent there some compatibility job that would run them? |
| 13:20.21 | freemangordon | looks loke |
| 13:20.30 | freemangordon | but then, thing are gitting weird |
| 13:22.00 | freemangordon | for example sapwood-server is executed by bot /etc/X11/Xsession.post and /etc/init.d/af-services |
| 13:22.05 | KotCzarny | but tbh on all my debian boxes i remove systemd and install sysvinit |
| 13:24.07 | freemangordon | I can't grok what's going on here :( |
| 13:24.59 | KotCzarny | grep upstart scrips for init string? |
| 13:25.28 | KotCzarny | maybe some binary executes them directly |
| 13:25.44 | bencoh | hmmm, isn't maemo init system a hybrid (upstart+sysv)? |
| 13:26.16 | freemangordon | KotCzarny: doesn;t matter, the point is that sapwood-server is started from 2 places |
| 13:26.26 | freemangordon | bencoh: no idea |
| 13:26.33 | freemangordon | but looks like |
| 13:26.35 | bencoh | iirc both upstart scripts and regular init scripts are interpreted |
| 13:27.32 | KotCzarny | add 'echo $0 >>/tmp/rclog;date >>/tmp/rclog' everywhere? |
| 13:27.56 | freemangordon | KotCzarny: what for? |
| 13:28.12 | KotCzarny | to pinpoint at which point those sapwood things run? |
| 13:28.14 | freemangordon | I anm not interseted in who starts it, but why it is started twice |
| 13:28.44 | freemangordon | I know when is it started |
| 13:28.49 | KotCzarny | what happens if you run it third time? graceful exit? |
| 13:29.19 | freemangordon | the problem is that it seems to be firs started from a script in /etc/init.d, before there is X running |
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| 13:29.32 | freemangordon | and of it fails |
| 13:29.35 | freemangordon | *ofc |
| 13:29.45 | KotCzarny | disable it and check if system still works? |
| 13:29.51 | freemangordon | :( |
| 13:30.04 | freemangordon | before knowing why it is like that? |
| 13:30.12 | KotCzarny | maybe if x/wm dies its just for restarting? |
| 13:30.24 | freemangordon | I doubt |
| 13:30.36 | freemangordon | if X dies on maemo, you got a reboot |
| 13:30.58 | KotCzarny | what is sapwood for anyway? |
| 13:31.23 | freemangordon | KotCzarny: https://github.com/fremantle-gtk2/sapwood |
| 13:34.18 | KotCzarny | so, pixmap server? |
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| 13:36.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | GoNeL: watch out with sudo! it doesn't work the way you might think |
| 13:37.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually messing with etc/sudoers is one of the most frequent reasons for bootloop |
| 13:37.41 | freemangordon | Pali: what if dsmetool is asked to start the same binary twice? |
| 13:37.47 | GoNeL | i'm not understanding what is going on here... maybe it was the problem.. |
| 13:37.57 | Pali | do not know :-) need to test |
| 13:38.33 | GoNeL | you know how can i revert it? I remove User from sudo group (27) but nothing changed |
| 13:38.45 | freemangordon | maybe this is it - all those mutiple starts are through dsmetool and it just ignores the request when the binary is already started |
| 13:38.49 | GoNeL | cannot edit PATH, permission dennied |
| 13:39.22 | KotCzarny | fmg, disable from sysvinit and/or upstart and check what stops working |
| 13:39.58 | bencoh | hmm, I am sudoers (with password) on my n900, and it works |
| 13:41.14 | freemangordon | KotCzarny: no, I'd rather check when is stuff in /etc/init.d started on maemo |
| 13:41.31 | KotCzarny | see? told you to add rclog |
| 13:41.33 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 13:43.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | check out update-sudoers script! Froups are not the problem. Our problem is very old sudo which is pimped to act like newer one, with scripts |
| 13:43.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# which update-sudoers |
| 13:43.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | /usr/sbin/update-sudoers |
| 13:44.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrtools |
| 13:44.02 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools |
| 13:44.15 | bencoh | right, I checked update-sudoers beforehand and added it properly |
| 13:44.21 | bencoh | don't remember where though |
| 13:45.11 | bencoh | ah, in sudoers.d |
| 13:47.42 | GoNeL | Nokia-N900:~# update-sudoers |
| 13:47.42 | GoNeL | Nokia-N900:~# which update-sudoers |
| 13:48.30 | GoNeL | it's /usr/sbin/update-sudoers |
| 13:51.44 | bencoh | read it, see /etc/sudoers.d/ |
| 13:52.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | tl;dr: never edit /etc/sudoers ! |
| 13:53.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you want to edit sth about sudo, do it in /etc/sudoers.d/* (ideally your own file you add there) - then **run update-sudoers** |
| 13:54.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | then check if sudo still works as supposed, **while keeping a root shell open, to revert what you messed up** |
| 13:56.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | about groups, see `man sudoers` - and keep in mind what you just learned from reading update-sudo script |
| 13:56.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can find some very terse hints in |
| 13:56.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrtools |
| 13:56.58 | infobot | it has been said that jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools |
| 13:58.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | on a broader note: I don't know if I ever heard of a really 100% successful add of new user (except 'root' and 'user') in maemo |
| 13:58.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | a full interactibe user account != user|root might not work like expected, occasionally |
| 13:59.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | interactive* |
| 13:59.20 | GoNeL | ok thnks, i'ĺl it! |
| 13:59.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's a lot of tricky stuff about users, in maemo |
| 14:00.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | e.g. you should be *very* careful of redefining *user* shell, while root's shell is mostly harmless to redefine |
| 14:01.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~liskeys sudo |
| 14:01.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~listkeys sudo |
| 14:01.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~sudo |
| 14:01.46 | infobot | [~sudo] Better than su, according to talon. It allows a permitted user to execute a command as the superuser or another user, as specified in the sudoers file. Or can allow you to do silly things like run X11 apps with root privileges; also good in scripts with "username ALL = NOPASSWD: /some/program", or http://www.aplawrence.com/Basics/sudo.html, or good for ordering sandwiches, or not pseudo |
| 14:03.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~sudo make me a sandwich |
| 14:03.03 | infobot | make me a sandwich: sudo make docscrutinizer05 a sandwich. |
| 14:03.43 | GoNeL | lol |
| 14:04.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | I recently learned that there's a risk I become a sandwich whe doing this |
| 14:04.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | doesn't want to be a sandwich |
| 14:04.42 | bencoh | sudo turn DocScrutinizer05 into a sandwich |
| 14:05.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | wasn't there a `make cow` or sth? |
| 14:06.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | bencoh: weird: I thought xkcd was native speaker. https://xkcd.com/149/ |
| 14:07.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | so why did he use this very ambiguous form? |
| 14:09.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | GoNeL: re sudo - what is it exactly you want to achieve? |
| 14:10.07 | sixwheeledbeast^ | infobot slap sudo |
| 14:10.07 | infobot | ACTION slaps sudo, keep your grubby fingers to yourself! |
| 14:11.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | also idly wonders if we might get decent contemporary sudo in CSSU, instead of this obsolete bitrotten shit and update-sudoaers could get lost in a place nobody ever again remembers |
| 14:12.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | a new decent sudo would allow smart stuff like wrapping up HAM into sudo |
| 14:12.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | **WITH PASSWORD** |
| 14:13.29 | freemangordon | Pali: bencoh: KotCzarny: mystery revealed - maemo supports both upstart and init.d scripts, the same goes for devuan. the difference is that in devuan there must be LSB header for the correct startup order |
| 14:15.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:15.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:15.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:17.23 | bencoh | freemangordon: :) |
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| 14:19.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# sudo -A /bin/true |
| 14:19.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | sudo: illegal option `-A' |
| 14:19.38 | GoNeL | guys I might have to become religious and thank god or something, i dont know why but now it just start working! |
| 14:21.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# l `which sudo` |
| 14:21.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | -rwsr-xr-x 2 root root 91584 2009-04-17 10:50 /usr/bin/sudo |
| 14:21.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# sudo -V |
| 14:21.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sudo version 1.6.8p12 |
| 14:21.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | GoNeL: you forgot to run update-suoers and you rebooted which does that for you |
| 14:22.34 | KotCzarny | fmg: that's good, because i bet there are still people using sysvinit (/me being one of them) |
| 14:22.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | odds however are that after reboot it doesn't 'magically work' but rather any fsckup you introduced causes a bootloop |
| 14:23.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's why you *ALWAYS* run update-sudoers after messing with sudo |
| 14:23.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | as I explained above |
| 14:24.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | `less /usr/sbin/update-sudoers` -- really _highly_ recommended |
| 14:25.08 | GoNeL | yeah i think that was my problem |
| 14:25.18 | GoNeL | thank yo DocScrutinizer05 |
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| 14:28.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: freemangordon: could we get sudo >1.8 in CSSU? pretty please! |
| 14:29.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | and nuke that update-suoers shite then, since it's not needed anymore for >=1.8 |
| 14:32.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | it would also speed up boottime by prolly 0.73 seconds, _and: add "sudo -A" option and the equivalent askpass function to 5 sudoers |
| 14:33.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | if sudo.conf(5) contains a line specifying the askpass program, that value will be used. For example: |
| 14:33.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:33.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 14:36.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: Pali: we could change stuff like "%users ALL = NOPASSWD: /usr/libexec/apt-worker" to do proper asking for (root!) password then |
| 14:37.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | would most likely work like a charm :-) |
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| 14:42.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | GoNeL: note that visudo is pointless on maemo (for interactive use), since you're _not_ supposed to ever edit the file /etc/sudoers |
| 14:46.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | GoNeL: you still could use `visudo -f /etc/sudoers.d/mysudo` but since you're supposed to run update-sudoers after any such edit anyway, it's quite pointless |
| 15:03.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | and honestly what is this (last line in my /etc/sudoers.d/01sudo): "user ALL = (install) NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/app-installer-tool" |
| 15:03.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O |
| 15:03.41 | bencoh | hmm |
| 15:03.42 | bencoh | ? |
| 15:03.55 | KotCzarny | hmm, how one takes screenshot on n8x0 ? |
| 15:04.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | I wonder if *I* added that nonsense eventually |
| 15:04.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's no /usr/bin/app-installer-tool |
| 15:06.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | of course also no user "install" |
| 15:07.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | idly wonders if some crap like fapman or whatever might have done `echo "user ALL = (install) NOPASSWD: /usr/bin/app-installer-tool" >>/etc/sudoers.d/01sudo` in postinst |
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| 15:11.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | `grep "01sudo" /var/lib/dpkg/info/*.postinst` -->zilch |
| 15:11.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | bencoh: could you please check last line in your /etc/sudoers.d/01sudo |
| 15:13.04 | bencoh | same thing |
| 15:13.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | duh! |
| 15:13.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | wtf is this? |
| 15:13.15 | bencoh | legacy stuff maybe |
| 15:13.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | prolly, yes |
| 15:22.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | maemo4 actually? |
| 15:22.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | finally needs to fix his N810 rootfs |
| 15:24.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's embarrassing it eventually started bootlooping and I never got around to fixing that |
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| 15:39.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | grrr http://maemo.org/packages/view/sudo/ |
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| 15:47.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://github.com/search?q=org%3Acommunity-ssu+sudo :-/ |
| 15:58.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: >>The include directive<< https://wiki.debian.org/sudo |
| 15:58.57 | freemangordon | hmm? |
| 15:58.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: could you compile a recent version of sudo for fremantle? (and provide it) |
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| 15:59.13 | freemangordon | there should be, in the repos |
| 15:59.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | where? can't find it |
| 15:59.31 | freemangordon | oh, wait |
| 15:59.42 | freemangordon | I was thinking about busybox |
| 15:59.47 | freemangordon | :) |
| 15:59.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh!! :-) |
| 15:59.56 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: can;t do it now |
| 16:01.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's most likely a bad idea to add it to extras-devel autobuilder, I guess? |
| 16:03.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | (not like I'd be savvy how ro accomplish that, I'd rather actually install a SV VM and try locally, but really I'd rather avoid that) |
| 16:03.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | SB* |
| 16:04.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd ruthlessly gab HARM binary and run it on fremantle, if only I could find it |
| 16:05.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | but then: GARM (aka Aegis) sudo?? BWAHAHAHA |
| 16:09.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.sudo.ws/dist/sudo-1.8.19p2.tar.gz would be nice |
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| 18:46.23 | freemangordon | Pali: do you have a clue how 'root' user on maemo is able to access 'user' user dbus session bus? |
| 18:47.03 | Pali | yes :-) |
| 18:47.09 | Pali | run stanalone .sh |
| 18:47.18 | Pali | or how it is called that script |
| 18:47.34 | ceene | run-standalone.sh |
| 18:47.35 | freemangordon | Pali: sure, but how dbus allows it? |
| 18:47.54 | Pali | communication with dbus daemon is done via filesystem socket |
| 18:48.07 | freemangordon | yes,yes |
| 18:48.08 | freemangordon | DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS |
| 18:48.11 | Pali | and socket file is passed to dbus app via env |
| 18:48.26 | freemangordon | yes, but that soesn't work on debian |
| 18:48.31 | freemangordon | *doesn't |
| 18:48.33 | Pali | and address for user session dbus is in some /tmp file |
| 18:48.58 | freemangordon | DBUS_SESSION_BUS_ADDRESS=unix:abstract=/tmp/dbus-NHndQJLZj1,guid=52eee25672b0202e4b74c9cc587b9421 |
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| 18:49.05 | freemangordon | BUT... |
| 18:49.05 | Pali | also dbus-daemon has some policy file which specify who and how can access it |
| 18:49.23 | Pali | so you can filter out some users for some dbus interface |
| 18:49.36 | freemangordon | hmm, do you know which file is that |
| 18:49.49 | Pali | in /etc/ is for system dbus |
| 18:50.09 | freemangordon | yes, but what about session bus? |
| 18:50.17 | Pali | do not know |
| 18:50.34 | freemangordon | according to google, root cannot access other user's session bus |
| 18:50.50 | freemangordon | even if it have the socket address |
| 18:51.10 | freemangordon | it must use seteuid in order to do that |
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| 18:54.11 | freemangordon | hmm, there is some session.conf file |
| 18:58.20 | KotCzarny | are there any download/install stats for packages on extras/-devel ? |
| 19:00.31 | KotCzarny | crzyp3ck: use: screen /dev/ttyUSB1 115200 maybe? |
| 19:00.46 | KotCzarny | ECHAN. eh |
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| 19:19.41 | sicelo- | ~repos |
| 19:19.41 | infobot | well, repos is "deb http://maemo.muarf.org/apt-mirror/mirror/downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/apps/ ./ ;; deb http://maemo.muarf.org/apt-mirror/mirror/downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/mr0/ ./", or see http://wiki.maemo.org/Repository#List_of_Maemo_repositories, or see ~jrrepos |
| 19:19.52 | sicelo- | ~maemo-repos |
| 19:19.52 | infobot | rumour has it, maemo-repos is http://wiki.maemo.org/Repository#List_of_Maemo_repositories |
| 19:34.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrrepos |
| 19:34.17 | infobot | somebody said jrrepos was http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/et_al/HAM-catalogs/ |
| 19:35.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | thinks ~repos is maximum non-helpful |
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| 19:41.12 | sicelo- | whoah! installed python-matplotlib .. expected huge amounts of rootfs to get used up .. seems to have had negligible effect. interesting |
| 19:41.39 | KotCzarny | most likely because python optified already |
| 19:41.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | it should install to the bindomount python stuff I'd guess |
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| 19:44.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | ssh root@iron900 "mount|grep pymaemo" |
| 19:45.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | cmd: /opt/pymaemo/usr/lib/python2.5 on /usr/lib/python2.5 type bind (bind) |
| 19:45.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | cmd: /opt/pymaemo/usr/share/pyshared on /usr/share/pyshared type bind (bind) |
| 19:45.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | cmd: /opt/pymaemo/usr/lib/pyshared on /usr/lib/pyshared type bind (bind) |
| 19:45.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | cmd: /opt/pymaemo/usr/share/python-support on /usr/share/python-support type bind (bind) |
| 19:45.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | cmd: /opt/pymaemo/usr/lib/python-support on /usr/lib/python-support type bind (bind) |
| 19:46.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | special case of |
| 19:47.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~optification |
| 19:47.01 | infobot | optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3" |
| 19:47.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | sicelo-: ^^^ |
| 19:48.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | sicel o-: |
| 19:48.12 | sicelo- | at least this solves one of my problems/concerns .. have something that needs matplotlib, and i had been holding back unnecessarily |
| 19:57.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | ssh root@iron900 "du -sh \$(mount|grep pymaemo|sed 's/^\([^ ]*\) on .*/\1/')" |
| 19:58.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | cmd: 63.4M/opt/pymaemo/usr/lib/python2.5 |
| 19:58.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | cmd: 7.1M/opt/pymaemo/usr/share/pyshared |
| 19:58.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | cmd: 2.8M/opt/pymaemo/usr/lib/pyshared |
| 19:58.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | cmd: 280.0k/opt/pymaemo/usr/share/python-support |
| 19:58.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | cmd: 148.0k/opt/pymaemo/usr/lib/python-support |
| 20:00.20 | ceene | i don't like optification the way it was done |
| 20:00.42 | ceene | it should've been done at system level, without modification of .deb |
| 20:00.44 | KotCzarny | yeah. symlinks would be mych better |
| 20:00.57 | ceene | i was thinking of unionfs |
| 20:01.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | huh? |
| 20:01.49 | ceene | unionfs allows to show a filesystem as an overlay of two different mount points |
| 20:02.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | you might not be completely aware of the way optification got implemented |
| 20:02.17 | ceene | packages need to be optified |
| 20:02.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | I know what's unionfs |
| 20:02.41 | ceene | i don't want packages to be custom designed to allow or not allow for optification |
| 20:02.50 | ceene | that should be a system setting |
| 20:03.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | maemo-optify-auto-opt.sh maemo-optify-firstboot.sh maemo-optify-lib.sh maemo-optify-make-mountbind.sh |
| 20:04.29 | ceene | all of that is unnecesary if you just unionfs mount /opt with / |
| 20:04.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | bindmount sounds terribly inticated and fragile |
| 20:04.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | err sorry, unionfs |
| 20:05.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | again, see: |
| 20:05.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~optification |
| 20:05.12 | infobot | optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3" |
| 20:05.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | Nokia failed to sanitize that stuff with PR1.2 |
| 20:06.58 | enyc | so, is there any sensible way to fix this all // rebuild maemo system atop armhf jessie devuan or whatever ? |
| 20:07.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | I thought they would do optification as a transitional botch/hotfix and fix it in PR1.2 (or was it 1.3?). Alas they kept legacy crap |
| 20:07.46 | ceene | i don't even have separate partitions on my PCs, where i have 1Tb+ hard disks |
| 20:07.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | so? |
| 20:08.01 | ceene | sounds ridiculous having so many separate partitions on phones with limited storage |
| 20:08.21 | ceene | that's also a problem on android phones |
| 20:08.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | how would you make one partition of two different *types* of storage? And don't say LVM now! |
| 20:08.56 | ceene | sometimes you can't upgrade an application that would fit in available space because the partition it is to be downloaded prior to installation is full |
| 20:09.01 | Maxdamantus | has Maemo/home all on a single 27.4 GiB partition. |
| 20:09.22 | ceene | or you can download the installer because partition for temp files is empty but you can't install the app because app partition is full |
| 20:09.42 | ceene | whereas it is all internal storage that doesn't make sense spliting |
| 20:09.55 | Pali | then you have wrongly partitioned system |
| 20:09.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | so? this is of pretty minor relevance to maemo and N900, right? |
| 20:09.57 | ceene | DocScrutinizer05: if you want to have MyDocs under vfat that could've been implemented as a filesystem on a file |
| 20:10.10 | KotCzarny | imo we should simply use nand only for rescueos/bootloader/boot and move whole os to emmc |
| 20:10.17 | ceene | no, that's exactly the same that happens on n900, where you have plenty of space but it's in the wrong partition |
| 20:10.30 | enyc | KotCzarny: is there a performance penalty? |
| 20:10.42 | KotCzarny | most of the os is on emmc anyway |
| 20:10.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | ceene: again, what got that to do with optification and different types of memory? |
| 20:10.51 | Pali | once I used full Maemo on eMMC it was slower |
| 20:11.00 | ceene | that optification shouldn't have needed to even exist |
| 20:11.05 | Pali | having Maemo on both nand and eMMC is fater |
| 20:11.13 | Pali | *faster |
| 20:11.17 | KotCzarny | pali, how much slower? |
| 20:11.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | ceene: please first read and understand what optification actually is |
| 20:11.26 | sicelo- | Maxdamantus: .. how is your user experience with your setup? |
| 20:11.28 | Pali | I remember slower bootup |
| 20:11.46 | *** join/#maemo Oksanaa (~Wikiwide@Maemo/community/ex-council/Wikiwide) |
| 20:11.46 | Pali | and whole system had more lags |
| 20:11.54 | freemangordon | KotCzarny: way slower |
| 20:11.57 | KotCzarny | hum. |
| 20:12.05 | freemangordon | from sd card at least |
| 20:12.09 | KotCzarny | maybe we need to optimize os too, to see what writes more |
| 20:12.09 | ceene | DocScrutinizer05: from your first link: The N900 has about 100 MB of free space in the root file system partition. This is not very much and would fill up quite quickly when installing additional applications. As a workaround, the /opt directory has been linked to a different partition with more space (about 1 GB) and /home/user/MyDocs is also available in certain cases, with even more space |
| 20:12.15 | freemangordon | didn;t try from emmc |
| 20:12.15 | ceene | ain't that what i'm saying? |
| 20:12.38 | Maxdamantus | sicelo-: it's still usable. My bootup is a lot slower, but I think that's mostly due to the fact that I'm using ext4 and it fscks before mounting. |
| 20:12.50 | freemangordon | there is nothing wrong in having / on nand |
| 20:12.52 | KotCzarny | sd cards differ, try again with samsung evo+ |
| 20:12.54 | Maxdamantus | (and usually when the device boots, it's because it crashed/froze) |
| 20:13.03 | Maxdamantus | (so it has to do a long check) |
| 20:13.05 | freemangordon | it would have been even better if it was read-only |
| 20:13.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, you say optification is not needed with different partitioning, but you ignore there's physically no possibility to make one partition out of two storage chips with different type of storage |
| 20:13.18 | ceene | optification is a workaround needed because of a not opt-imal structure of memory |
| 20:13.28 | ceene | but there is |
| 20:13.35 | ceene | you can fake that with unionfs, as i said |
| 20:13.36 | freemangordon | ceene: no, it is because n900 has only 256 MB of nand |
| 20:13.39 | Maxdamantus | I also have swap on an SD card, which makes a decent difference iirc |
| 20:13.45 | ceene | and you yourself suggested lvm |
| 20:13.54 | freemangordon | and nand is times faster than emmc |
| 20:14.06 | ceene | freemangordon: well, of course all storage problems can be solved via more storage |
| 20:14.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | ceene: please read ~optification *again*, fully, until last char |
| 20:14.30 | freemangordon | ceene: and how would you do that on already assembled/shipped device? |
| 20:14.35 | ceene | i just think optification could've been done differently |
| 20:15.01 | Pali | moving core libs and binaries into /bin /sbin /lib and all non-core to /usr |
| 20:15.02 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: it was implemented in some of the PRs, right? 1.2? |
| 20:15.10 | Pali | and then moving whole /usr into eMMC |
| 20:15.21 | Pali | that is more unix way |
| 20:15.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: optification? iirc 1.1 |
| 20:15.26 | freemangordon | ok |
| 20:15.40 | Pali | and probably better to performance |
| 20:15.40 | ceene | for some reason you keep unacknowledging my idea of using unionfs to implement optification |
| 20:15.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali has it the right way |
| 20:15.46 | freemangordon | Pali: we have maemo booting with devuan upstart :) |
| 20:15.47 | Pali | instead hell of symlinks |
| 20:15.57 | Pali | ou, nice! |
| 20:16.10 | Maxdamantus | I'd rather explicitly have the "core" things stored separately. |
| 20:16.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | ceene: because pf ~optification explains that it's not needed at all, and you do NOZ need any unionfs to avoid that |
| 20:16.35 | Pali | but now in systemd world /usr and / is one thing... |
| 20:16.42 | freemangordon | Pali: some stuff like ttyusb0 and couple of others still need love, but those are not critical |
| 20:16.52 | KotCzarny | last time i brought similar idea, you folks have said nokia did bad things and essential tools for boot are on /usr too |
| 20:16.55 | Pali | udev does not boot when /usr is in separate part as / |
| 20:17.25 | ceene | DocScrutinizer05: having a set of six .sh scripts do what a simple entry on /etc/fstab would do seems more complex than necessary |
| 20:17.34 | Pali | KotCzarny: yes... but this is now common for all linux distros |
| 20:17.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's one of the reasons why systemd is a pile of shit for embedded |
| 20:17.38 | Pali | because of udev.. |
| 20:17.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | ceene: so what? |
| 20:18.19 | ceene | so that's all i'm saying |
| 20:18.32 | ceene | you may not agree, that's okay |
| 20:18.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | so read ~optification a 5th time, it says exactly same |
| 20:19.03 | ceene | i don't think we're even discussing the same thing |
| 20:19.09 | Oksanaa | Well, does upstart replace udev? Can upstart handle /usr and / being in separate partitions? Could optification be changed in devuan-maemo? |
| 20:19.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~optification |
| 20:19.13 | infobot | optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3" |
| 20:19.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | is what we're discussing |
| 20:19.49 | ceene | yeah, but you're not giving any arguments in favour or against anything in particular i'm saying |
| 20:19.51 | freemangordon | Oksanaa: afaik upstart and udev are different things |
| 20:19.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | what in ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"" is unclear? |
| 20:20.00 | ceene | so i'm even doubting this is a discussion :) |
| 20:20.42 | Pali | Oksanaa: upstart is init daemon like sysvinit or sytemd |
| 20:21.05 | Pali | it does not implement dbus or other parts... |
| 20:21.07 | ceene | also, whatever it is, it's sterile, so let's just leave it at that, what's done is done |
| 20:21.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's hard to discuss based on false assertions/assumptions. packaged doen't need to get modified for optification |
| 20:21.08 | Oksanaa | Okay... So udev is in maemo-devuan and would protest against moving /usr to MyDocs? |
| 20:21.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | packages* |
| 20:22.08 | ceene | but they do, they must be specifically optified by the maintainer and the autobuilder modifies them |
| 20:22.11 | ceene | by the way |
| 20:22.14 | ceene | https://gitorious.org/maemo-af/maemo-optify/blobs/master/README |
| 20:22.17 | ceene | this link is broken |
| 20:22.47 | Pali | not only link, but design too :-) |
| 20:23.32 | ceene | time to have dinner, cya! |
| 20:23.37 | Oksanaa | For example: once /usr/games already points to /opt/usr/games, packages should just use /usr/games and not think about optification? |
| 20:24.09 | Pali | /usr/games should not be symlink |
| 20:24.13 | Pali | as package installation fails |
| 20:24.22 | Pali | (package wants to create directory, not symlink) |
| 20:24.32 | Pali | but mount --bind is OK |
| 20:24.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | there are two ways to optify: either you already move packages to /opt/*/* and add symlink from /usr/*/* to that files, or you simply add a list of files in /usr/*/* that need optification and you hand that list to the optification scripts on target system. The latter is *very* nonintrusive to packaging |
| 20:26.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | in the end both methods result in symlinks from /usr/bin/foo -> /opt/foo/bin/foo |
| 20:26.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | the latter path might look slightly different |
| 20:26.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | I didn't check the details |
| 20:26.53 | Oksanaa | Okay.... And /usr/games looks like symlink, lrwx and all, no idea why or which packages use it. Latter method allows more freedom for optification method to be changed in the future |
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| 20:27.34 | Pali | but is worse to nand wear leveling |
| 20:27.43 | Pali | as it store useless files to nand |
| 20:27.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | why could /usr/games be a symlink, isn't that rather a /usr/games/ dir? |
| 20:28.10 | Oksanaa | Yes, dir symlink? |
| 20:30.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | aah well, for games it looks like OK, yes |
| 20:32.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | Oksanaa: so regarding your question "should just use /usr/games" yes, of course |
| 20:33.36 | Oksanaa | Bug report : neverputt redundantly optifies itself? /If /usr/games being a symlink is standard / |
| 20:34.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O |
| 20:34.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | can't parse that, ETOOMANYSLASHES |
| 20:35.32 | Oksanaa | Bug report : neverputt redundantly optifies itself? ( If /usr/games being a symlink is standard ) |
| 20:35.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | aah thnx |
| 20:36.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | cmd: lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 14 Dec 6 2014 /usr/games -> /opt/usr/games |
| 20:37.43 | Oksanaa | Same: lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 14 Oct 26 2010 games -> /opt/usr/games |
| 20:42.10 | KotCzarny | pali, if app needs its own dir in /usr i guess adding symlink in pre-install would be enough? |
| 20:42.34 | KotCzarny | i hate mount binds being abused |
| 20:42.52 | Pali | do not know if dpkg will follow that symlink |
| 20:43.12 | Pali | as in deb package is directory, not symlink |
| 20:45.02 | KotCzarny | i havent checked, but after installation of python i have deleted mount binds and replaced with symlinks, no problems so far |
| 20:45.04 | Oksanaa | Do not expect any app to need its own directory in /usr ... In fact, my /usr contains only X11R6 bin games include lib libexec local man sbin share src var |
| 20:45.53 | KotCzarny | oksanaa: what i meant would mean for example /usr/lib/python24/ etc |
| 20:46.47 | Oksanaa | Huh... Yes, that's common. No idea about dpkg vs symlinks |
| 20:50.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | how could dpkg not follow a symlink /usr/foo->/opt/foo when creating /usr/foo/bar/ ? |
| 20:51.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | it hardly could create a dir /usr/foo when there's already a symlink (or dir, or file) with same name |
| 20:51.38 | Oksanaa | Question is about dpkg creating and following new symlinks? |
| 20:51.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I really hope it wouldn't delete that existing object to create it anew |
| 20:52.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | Oksanaa: no, that wasn't my question |
| 20:53.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | Oksanaa: my question was about dpkg using existing fs tree objects when they exist |
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| 20:58.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | there are exactly two possible responses of dpkg: either success or http://paste.opensuse.org/21118114 |
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| 20:59.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | (well, plus the usual ones like "r/o" "no space on device" etc pp) |
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| 21:07.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/42462894 |
| 21:09.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | can't see how dpkg would not handle that in a similar way, simply ignoring the errors |
| 21:11.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/73325744 |
| 21:12.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | a bindmount actually is a great way to hide stuff in original mountpoint |
| 21:13.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | and it is pretty tricky to find that stuff without umounting first |
| 21:13.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | basically needs a second bindmount |
| 21:14.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | iirc |
| 21:14.41 | Oksanaa | Lawl, know from experience of having photographs saved to MyDocs before eMMC is mounted. |
| 21:15.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehe, exactly that, yeah |
| 21:17.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | excellent "tutorial" on that stuff: http://www.ibm.com/developerworks/linux/library/l-mount-namespaces/index.html |
| 21:19.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | the trick is about --make-unbindable --make-private --make-slave --make-shared |
| 21:19.25 | KotCzarny | kludge overload |
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| 21:19.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | iirc you could mount /home/user/ to a new mountpoint with an option of the above that doesn't allow mounting of mounted namespaces |
| 21:20.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | so in that new mountpoint /~user/MyDocs would show the original dir content, not the mounted one |
| 21:21.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, /newmountpoint/MyDocs that is |
| 21:21.21 | Oksanaa | Ouchie... |
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| 21:31.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/49345/accessing-files-hidden-by-mounted-drive |
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| 21:34.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually better: http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/4426/access-to-original-contents-of-mount-point |
| 21:35.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | I was wrong, you don't need those --make-* options, just use --bind and not --rbind, the latter would include the mounted eMMC stuff in ~/MyDocs while --bind doesn't |
| 21:36.47 | Oksanaa | /me just did umount or something to unmount eMMC, move files from MyDocs to elsewhere, reboot ( to have eMMC mounted ), move files to MyDocs-eMMC ; was long time ago |
| 21:37.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, that's the 'simple' approach if you actually can umount the mountpoint covering the stuff you want to access |
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| 21:54.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | Oksanaa: http://paste.opensuse.org/87851648 ;-) |
| 21:55.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | uh = UnHide, if you wonder |
| 21:55.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | I had used mktmp -d but it doesn't exist on maemo stock :-/ |
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| 22:27.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# alias uhls=':(){ mkdir /tmp/uh && mount --bind / /tmp/uh && pushd 2>&1 >/dev/null /tmp/uh && ls -lR `readlink -f $1|sed 's,^/,,'` && popd 2>&1 >/dev/null && umount /tmp/uh && rmdir /tmp/uh; };:' |
| 22:27.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# uhls /usr/lib/pyshared |
| 22:27.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | usr/lib/pyshared: |
| 22:27.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | insgesamt 0 |
| 22:29.46 | Oksanaa | Is there a way to sync aliases with elsewhere, so that moving to a different device wouldn't mean recreating aliases from scratch? |
| 22:36.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | copy ~/.alias ? |
| 22:36.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | you will need to save aliases anyway, it's not done automatically. So even logout would lose them |
| 22:38.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, some distros do `alias >~/.alias` at shell logout |
| 22:38.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | nos sure if maemo / maemo-bash does it |
| 22:40.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | I got my own aliases handling, that is rather customized ;-) |
| 22:41.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/55218158 |
| 22:41.50 | freemangordon | Pali: any clue what is the replacement of /sys/kernel/low_watermark etc in upstream kernels? |
| 22:42.03 | Pali | nothing |
| 22:42.19 | Pali | low_watermark is special in nokia kernel |
| 22:42.21 | freemangordon | hmm... do we need hulda then? |
| 22:42.38 | Pali | I do not know what hulda is doing |
| 22:43.22 | freemangordon | me neither, but it tries to open /sys/kernel/low_watermark and /sys/kernel/high_watermark |
| 22:45.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/68074392 FWIW |
| 22:46.37 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: well, what I miss are the details, otherwise it listens to some kernel stuff and sends dbus events when needed |
| 22:46.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep, seems that's exactly what it does |
| 22:47.06 | freemangordon | and I am too lazy to read the whole source :) |
| 22:47.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehe |
| 22:47.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | nfc what's that watermark stuff though |
| 22:47.42 | freemangordon | well, with porting fremantle alredy on the plate... |
| 22:48.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# cat /sys/kernel/*_watermark |
| 22:48.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | 0 |
| 22:48.47 | freemangordon | someday I might look into kernel sources to see what it is, but not today :) |
| 22:49.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | usually such watermark shit is about fifo buffer fill state |
| 22:49.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | but maybe here about RAM or whatever |
| 22:49.42 | freemangordon | however, seems almost all startup scripts of the packages ported so far are ok |
| 22:49.44 | Pali | sp-memusage/mem-cpu-monitor is using that file |
| 22:50.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | HAH! :-) |
| 22:50.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | is a good guesser |
| 22:50.18 | Pali | kernel driver: security/lowmem.c |
| 22:50.39 | freemangordon | can't we make a .ko from that? |
| 22:50.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O |
| 22:50.48 | freemangordon | the same way as for iphbd |
| 22:51.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | a .ko talking to kdbus? ;-) |
| 22:51.37 | freemangordon | whatever it is |
| 22:52.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | my guess would be you won't make friends with the idea of kernel modules talking to dbus |
| 22:52.41 | freemangordon | well, this is just an interface I guess, which can be replaced |
| 22:52.48 | Pali | CONFIG_SECURITY_LOWMEM |
| 22:52.53 | Pali | "Low memory watermark support" |
| 22:52.57 | Pali | "Implements low memory watermark support" |
| 22:53.01 | Pali | thats in Kconfig |
| 22:53.08 | Pali | and it comes from omap kernel |
| 22:53.12 | Pali | not from nokia kernel |
| 22:53.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-)) |
| 22:53.26 | freemangordon | and I understand nothing from that description :) |
| 22:53.44 | Pali | (omap kernel was mainline fork of torvalds kernel, later it was partially merged into mainline with some obsolated parts dropped) |
| 22:53.49 | Pali | (seems this was dropped) |
| 22:54.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | hulda generally listens to kevents and sends according signals to dbus |
| 22:55.04 | freemangordon | and this seems to come from n770 times |
| 22:55.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess *_watermark is about configuring or reading details of memory related kevents |
| 22:56.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | a terrible botch would be to replace this with free(1) |
| 22:56.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | and polling |
| 22:56.27 | Pali | http://lists.openwall.net/linux-kernel/2009/01/16/248 |
| 22:56.45 | Pali | To: Tony Lindgren and Pavel Machek |
| 22:56.49 | Pali | go and ask :-) |
| 22:57.47 | freemangordon | hehe |
| 22:57.52 | freemangordon | will do |
| 22:58.01 | freemangordon | when it comes to it |
| 22:59.07 | freemangordon | Pali: don't you want to join the party with fremantle porting? |
| 22:59.34 | Pali | doing lot of stuff :D |
| 22:59.45 | freemangordon | yes, I know, but still |
| 23:00.18 | freemangordon | I really doubt I will be able to do it on my own in some sane timeframe |
| 23:00.25 | Pali | I have open/unfinished parts for kernel |
| 23:00.35 | Pali | which I want to finish first |
| 23:00.43 | Pali | e.g. jack/av cable detection |
| 23:00.56 | Pali | or wifi firmware+mac address |
| 23:01.09 | freemangordon | unless the community gathers enough $ pay me to quit my job :D |
| 23:01.19 | freemangordon | *to pay |
| 23:01.32 | freemangordon | yeah |
| 23:01.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | you rejected that when I asked ;-P |
| 23:01.57 | freemangordon | you can't pay me enough |
| 23:01.59 | freemangordon | :p |
| 23:02.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | you didn't even ask |
| 23:02.21 | freemangordon | I am old enough to think of retirement ;) |
| 23:02.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm too old to think of retiremen |
| 23:03.20 | freemangordon | I think I know your budged, you can't afford to pay me |
| 23:03.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | too late already |
| 23:03.49 | freemangordon | unless you won the lottery recently |
| 23:04.10 | freemangordon | anyway |
| 23:04.13 | Pali | according to my info, these 4 modules are in maemo kernel which do not have equivalent in mainline: PANIC_INFO_BUFF, CONFIG_IP_NF_TARGET_IDLETIMER, CONFIG_IP_NF_HB, CONFIG_SECURITY_LOWMEM |
| 23:04.52 | freemangordon | I think _IP_ stuff should be in iphb.ko, ain't? |
| 23:05.07 | Pali | CONFIG_IP_NF_HB is iphb |
| 23:05.33 | freemangordon | and what is this CONFIG_IP_NF_TARGET_IDLETIMER? isn't it in iphb as well? |
| 23:07.12 | Pali | ipt_IDLETIMER.ko |
| 23:07.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | sounds like a timer that triggers when no data via IP stack |
| 23:07.51 | Pali | funny part is: arch/arm/configs/rx51_defconfig:# CONFIG_IP_NF_TARGET_IDLETIMER is not set |
| 23:08.05 | Pali | and: arch/arm/configs/n800_defconfig:CONFIG_IP_NF_TARGET_IDLETIMER=y |
| 23:08.16 | Pali | so this module is not compiled on n900 |
| 23:08.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess it's not exactly needed since IP interfaces are not going to get disabled when no traffic |
| 23:09.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | unlike on most every other embedded crap device |
| 23:09.28 | Pali | "This option adds a `IDLETIMER' target. Each matching packet resets the timer associated with input and/or output interfaces. Timer expiry causes kobject uevent. Idle timer can be read via sysfs." |
| 23:10.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaah, that's the cononical name - "kobject uevent" not kevent |
| 23:10.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | some netsock stuff iirc |
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| 23:11.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | and that's exactly what hulda is all about, afaik |
| 23:12.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: is KP compiled with CONFIG_IP_NF_TARGET_IDLETIMER=y ? |
| 23:13.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems a useful netfilter feature |
| 23:14.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | for those planning to do more "than what you thought of when you first time put your rocks off" errr |
| 23:15.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | F.Z - pinguin in bondage [/quote] ;-) |
| 23:22.46 | Pali | no, kp is without CONFIG_IP_NF_TARGET_IDLETIMER |
| 23:23.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>This song suggests to the suggestible listener that the ordinary procedure, uh, that I'm circumlocuting at this present time in order to get this text on television, is that, uh, if you wanna do something other than what you thought you were gonna do when you first took your clothes off and you just happened to have some DEVICES around . . .<< |
| 23:24.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((no, kp is without)) this is maybe part of the reason why autodisconnect app ever was fucked up beyonf all repair |
| 23:25.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | aiui it tries to implement a similar functionality without help of kevents |
| 23:25.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | and netfilters |
| 23:27.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dRHn6TsvteQ |
| 23:36.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5J_m5Gum1rg the full package - way better, back then there was stuff like "concept albums" |
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