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| 05:47.58 | Michael_a380 | What's the best 'fold / flip / clamshell' phone? |
| 05:49.04 | Michael_a380 | Dad hates touch screens. |
| 05:57.30 | Vajb | i would say nokia e90 |
| 06:06.04 | KotCzarny | best depends on personal views |
| 06:06.49 | KotCzarny | if one has big fingers, there are 'senior phones' |
| 06:06.53 | KotCzarny | etc |
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| 07:09.51 | luke-jr | Michael_a380: Dragonbox Pyra? |
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| 09:37.08 | jonwil | hi |
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| 09:56.38 | buZz | meh, why doesnt the application manager have 'search' |
| 09:56.56 | L29Ah | apt-cache |
| 09:56.58 | L29Ah | ? |
| 09:57.19 | KotCzarny | buzz, have you tried just starting typing? |
| 09:58.08 | buZz | oh i havent |
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| 09:58.29 | buZz | dang, so simple, ty :D |
| 10:01.04 | KotCzarny | buzz: same goes for contacts/call log etc |
| 10:01.59 | buZz | hmhm, i dont use a simcard in it, so dont use that, but thanks :D |
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| 10:33.18 | dreamer | hi all, I'm trying to install a package but somehow espeak dependencies are broken :/ |
| 10:33.26 | dreamer | (too new versions available to what is needed) |
| 10:34.04 | KotCzarny | compile everything from sources? |
| 10:34.23 | dreamer | :/ |
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| 10:55.44 | Vajb | dreamer: try apt-cache search and see if the version u need is in some repo and then just disable others |
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| 10:59.44 | dreamer | Vajb: I don't see it being in different repos |
| 10:59.58 | dreamer | ie. all versiens that 'apt-cache show' gives are the same repo afaict |
| 11:01.35 | bencoh | apt-cache policy ? |
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| 11:14.55 | Vajb | ah i meant what bencoh said |
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| 12:15.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | let me rant a bit about apt-cache policy still broken in that it doesn't show full info |
| 12:16.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, maybe I'm wrong? |
| 12:17.24 | kerio | what kind of full info? |
| 12:17.31 | kerio | only showing the domain name? yeah that's awful |
| 12:17.39 | bencoh | it doesn't show complete repository url, but yeah |
| 12:18.00 | KotCzarny | hey, dont scare the users |
| 12:18.08 | KotCzarny | too much info can make them scream |
| 12:19.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | aah now |
| 12:19.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly what bencoh said |
| 12:20.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | friggin pointless when your URL is always just "maemo.org" or somesuch |
| 12:20.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | deb http://repository.maemo.org/community-testing/ fremantle free non-free |
| 12:20.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ fremantle-1.3 free non-free |
| 12:22.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# apt-cache policy mp-fremantle-community-pr |
| 12:22.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | mp-fremantle-community-pr: |
| 12:22.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | <PROTECTED> |
| 12:22.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | KTNXFU |
| 12:24.13 | buZz | weird, app manager didnt show me updates available |
| 12:24.20 | buZz | yet, apt-get update; apt-get upgrade does |
| 12:24.30 | buZz | (and replaces the kernel with a stupid version , pff) |
| 12:24.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | buZz: that's *exactly* the point |
| 12:24.53 | buZz | the point of what? |
| 12:24.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | buZz: don't mess with apt when you want to do updates |
| 12:25.06 | buZz | ah too later :P |
| 12:25.07 | buZz | -r |
| 12:25.24 | buZz | dont seem to have broken anything though |
| 12:26.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | you will only notice later on |
| 12:26.48 | KotCzarny | so, which kernel you have now? |
| 12:26.57 | KotCzarny | did you check it survived the reboot? ;) |
| 12:27.01 | buZz | the '53' power thingy |
| 12:27.14 | KotCzarny | power53 is good |
| 12:27.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | to start with: |
| 12:27.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# ls -l /etc/apt/sources.list /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list |
| 12:27.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 0 2009-10-30 12:39 /etc/apt/sources.list |
| 12:27.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 333 2017-01-08 21:56 /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list |
| 12:27.49 | buZz | Linux Nokia-N900 2.6.28.10-power53 #1 PREEMPT Wed Dec 10 13:52:39 UTC 2014 armv7l unknown |
| 12:28.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | you might want to have a peek at |
| 12:28.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrtools |
| 12:28.23 | infobot | jrtools is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools |
| 12:28.27 | buZz | DocScrutinizer05: similar, mine's bigger though |
| 12:29.00 | buZz | the hildon-app-man.list has ; https://hastebin.com/amokanusav.nginx |
| 12:29.57 | KotCzarny | pastebin that doesnt work without js? no, thanks :P |
| 12:30.12 | buZz | KotCzarny: here; https://hastebin.com/raw/amokanusav |
| 12:30.19 | KotCzarny | its exactly why interwebs are broken today |
| 12:30.34 | KotCzarny | and why out n900's browser is not enough |
| 12:30.54 | KotCzarny | dont enable extras-devel and do upgrades |
| 12:30.59 | KotCzarny | its dangerous |
| 12:31.06 | buZz | :) |
| 12:31.19 | buZz | blindfolded running towards walls |
| 12:31.27 | KotCzarny | in a 'i havent checked if it works, but uploaded anyway, enjoy!' |
| 12:31.29 | KotCzarny | way |
| 12:31.33 | buZz | :D |
| 12:37.23 | KotCzarny | maybe we should upload some broken system package replacement that will show people its bad? |
| 12:37.39 | KotCzarny | and display big 'you did bad' on reboot |
| 12:38.17 | buZz | oh nice, maybe i did bad :D |
| 12:38.41 | KotCzarny | blinking and with bright colors too |
| 12:43.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | you most probably do NOT want http://maemo.merlin1991.at/cssu/community-devel/ repo |
| 12:44.53 | KotCzarny | ah, yeah. that too |
| 12:45.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | and you must not do apt-get upgrade (or dist-upgrade) when http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel is enabled |
| 12:46.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | we've seen several times packages from the latter replaced and borked fubar a system package |
| 12:47.28 | Michael_a380 | I've probably done apt-get update |
| 12:47.43 | KotCzarny | update only gets indexes |
| 12:48.34 | KotCzarny | upgrade calculates which packages to install/change |
| 12:50.28 | bencoh | I still don't really understand why apt-get upgrade shows already up-to-date packets, btw |
| 12:50.43 | KotCzarny | bencoh: does it? |
| 12:50.49 | Michael_a380 | thanks |
| 12:50.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | upDATE is absolutely OK and even mandatory. It only reads in the new packages.list |
| 12:50.57 | bencoh | KotCzarny: when overriding packets with manually installed dpkgs, yes |
| 12:51.10 | bencoh | even if package version is the same |
| 12:51.15 | KotCzarny | are you sure those packages are the EXACT versions? |
| 12:51.22 | KotCzarny | ahm |
| 12:51.24 | bencoh | that's what policy says |
| 12:51.27 | bencoh | and I compared to dpkg -l |
| 12:51.35 | bencoh | it's even worse than that |
| 12:51.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | bencoh: a apt-cache policy on the particular package may help |
| 12:51.48 | KotCzarny | never saw that issue tbh |
| 12:52.03 | bencoh | DocScrutinizer05: see 5 latest lines ;) |
| 12:52.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | your last 5 lines are clearly a response to some filtered stuff I don't see |
| 12:52.31 | bencoh | so, it's worse than that. let's say I rebuilt some package, installed it using dpkg |
| 12:52.58 | bencoh | then reinstall original package, using apt-get |
| 12:53.15 | KotCzarny | you should change version string if it was built using different options |
| 12:53.19 | bencoh | upgrade will still show me said package as upgradable |
| 12:54.30 | bencoh | it's as if at some point cache got borked |
| 12:55.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | HAM has priorities |
| 12:55.14 | bencoh | so has apt-get |
| 12:55.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not all that sure apt has those too, and if it does if they work exactly same way |
| 12:56.14 | bencoh | actually I'm not sure HAM has :> |
| 12:56.32 | bencoh | but apt sure does |
| 12:56.45 | bencoh | ham might use it through apt, dunno |
| 12:57.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | HAM uses apt via a lib |
| 12:57.20 | bencoh | yeah I mean, the "priority" thing |
| 12:57.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | but HAM does a comprehensive re-definition of several working dirs |
| 12:57.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | iirc |
| 12:58.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | even cache might differ between apt-get and HAM |
| 12:58.09 | bencoh | I'd have to read speedyham code, some day |
| 12:58.12 | bencoh | maybe |
| 12:58.16 | bencoh | doubt that but who knows |
| 12:59.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | please give me a full pathname of a file in cache |
| 13:01.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | nevermind |
| 13:01.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/30609282 |
| 13:01.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | no idea |
| 13:02.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm pretty sure during system update HAM creates some possibly temporary dirs on emmc |
| 13:04.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | hildon-application-manager-config dump |
| 13:05.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/47151856 |
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| 13:09.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | very enlightening: http://paste.opensuse.org/3593533 |
| 13:12.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# ls -l /etc/hildon-application-manager/ |
| 13:12.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | insgesamt 12 |
| 13:12.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 2017 2017-01-08 21:56 catalogues |
| 13:12.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 12 2009-10-07 17:11 notifier |
| 13:12.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | -rw-r--r-- 1 root root 12 2012-09-11 15:36 settings |
| 13:15.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | idly ponders if http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/enable-catalogs really does a comprehensive and decent job |
| 13:25.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | though it takes care about /etc/hildon-application-manager/, so yes I prolly knew about that stuff when writing it |
| 13:28.57 | *** part/#maemo Monsieur (~mickael@vpn.0x15f228d.org) |
| 13:35.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway the general rule "**never do apt-get upgrade od apt-get dist-upgrade" applies and I've never seen issues when strictly following that |
| 13:37.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | except when e.g. manually forcing procps into system and thus apt refuses to do *anything* from then on, since it says there are dependency conflicts you should fix by apt-get -f (which btw doesn't fix anything either) |
| 13:37.26 | buZz | maybe, we could patch apt-get to just not do that by default? |
| 13:37.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~jrtools |
| 13:37.36 | infobot | it has been said that jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools |
| 13:37.40 | buZz | replace the commands with reallyupgrade or reallydist-upgrade |
| 13:37.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | covers that |
| 13:38.23 | buZz | it only blocks dist-upgrade, not upgrade |
| 13:38.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools#Miniwrapper_for_apt-get_logs. |
| 13:38.46 | buZz | yep |
| 13:38.49 | buZz | it only blocks dist-upgrade, not upgrade :) |
| 13:39.35 | bencoh | afaict upgrade works |
| 13:39.55 | bencoh | apart from the fact that it might mistake up-to-date packages to ones needing upgrade |
| 13:40.00 | bencoh | but it won't break an install |
| 13:40.10 | bencoh | (unlike dist-upgrade, which will break your system) |
| 13:40.20 | bencoh | s/to ones/for ones/ |
| 13:40.31 | buZz | well seems to depend on which repos are enabled |
| 13:42.37 | bencoh | I have pinned extras-devel/extras-testing, and it still works ;) |
| 13:43.09 | bencoh | I just didn't blindly add -devel with no pinning, that's all |
| 13:43.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | how will you install a package from extras-devel when same package is in extras in an older version? |
| 13:44.35 | *** join/#maemo marmistrz (~marmistrz@212.87.13.106) |
| 13:44.46 | bencoh | DocScrutinizer05: package=42.12-foobar |
| 13:45.05 | bencoh | total freedom :) |
| 13:45.28 | marmistrz | Hi! I'm wondering: what does SailfishOS currently use for accessing the phone memory via USB? Mass storage? MTP? SFTP? |
| 13:45.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | you always need to decide manually somehow (either via pinning the particular package if that is feasible, by providing exact version in apt-get install pkg:version, or by (recommended) only temporarily enabling extras-devel for a few installs but *never* keep it enabled for upgrade or dist-upgrade or HAM up'dates') |
| 13:46.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | marmistrz: hi! long time no see :-) I don't think many sailfish experts around here |
| 13:46.44 | bencoh | marmistrz: good question, I guess someone might know the answer on sfos chan :) |
| 13:48.19 | marmistrz | :) |
| 13:48.37 | marmistrz | thanks! |
| 13:49.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((only temporarily enabling extras-devel for a few installs)) additional rationale: you not always want to update to newest (possibly broken) version in extras-devel, when there's a new version getting pushed there |
| 13:50.05 | bencoh | DocScrutinizer05: which is why pinning is a good solution |
| 13:50.16 | bencoh | anyway, prolly a matter of taste |
| 13:50.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't know how pinning works exactly, and on which level |
| 13:52.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | very natural procedure: enable-catalogs all; #startup HAM, check "update" and decide which packages you want to update from extras-devel *manually*, do NOT do "update all" (button at top of list); enable-catalogs basic. |
| 13:53.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | alternatively to HAM in the above, you may use apt-get install, but NEVER apt-get upgrade |
| 13:59.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/72803604 shows how upgrade doesn't care and would upgrade all, shows how apt-cache policy is a PITA since it doesn't really tell which repo the packages come from, and leaves me puzzled to whether I got latest CSSU installed and if this failed to upgrade ssh to a fixed version |
| 14:00.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | *and* shows that you always need to be alert, and never forget to do apt-get update after switching catalogs ;-) |
| 14:05.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh, no changes, only a mess of intransparent stuff |
| 14:06.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess I should simply install CSSU-T over all that again |
| 14:07.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | really I'm down to just guessing - aka i'm lost |
| 14:07.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~cssu |
| 14:07.59 | infobot | cssu is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU, or (Community Seamless Software Update) |
| 14:09.19 | *** join/#maemo N-Mi_ (~nicolas@LMontsouris-657-1-196-48.w90-63.abo.wanadoo.fr) |
| 14:09.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/86635780 FFS! |
| 14:09.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | this is latest |
| 14:10.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo11 (11.04.2015) http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Changelog |
| 14:11.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | so why the f*** is >> openssl Upgrade to upstream 0.9.8zf + maemo patches<< not up to date on my system? |
| 14:17.08 | bencoh | because you didn't upgrade? :D |
| 14:17.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | I obviously did, see http://paste.opensuse.org/86635780 |
| 14:17.34 | bencoh | mine is uptodate |
| 14:19.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/20930358 |
| 14:20.55 | bencoh | hmm, looks like I don't have mp-fremantle-community-pr at all |
| 14:20.58 | bencoh | (on stable) |
| 14:21.09 | bencoh | I mean, it's not installed here |
| 14:21.31 | KotCzarny | cheater :P |
| 14:21.54 | bencoh | no idea why/how |
| 14:22.19 | KotCzarny | maybe you have ran into some troubles and removed it |
| 14:22.25 | bencoh | maybe |
| 14:23.06 | bencoh | considering its dependencies I don't really see why I'd have done that though |
| 14:23.25 | KotCzarny | experimented with weird packages? |
| 14:23.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/86961458 |
| 14:24.07 | KotCzarny | try apt-get install to see what it would change (but press ctrl-c before actually doing it) |
| 14:24.12 | bencoh | KotCzarny: maybe, but still, mp doesn't seem to specify dependency versions |
| 14:24.39 | bencoh | which would explain why DocScrutinizer05 doing install on it doesn't change a thing |
| 14:24.44 | KotCzarny | but sometimes it requires packages that are conflicting with some gnu-* ones |
| 14:25.34 | bencoh | s/dependency versions/recent dependency versions/, in his case |
| 14:25.41 | bencoh | openssl (>= 0.9.8n-1+maemo4+0m5+0cssu1) |
| 14:25.56 | bencoh | might be a bug in Tmaemo11 |
| 14:26.22 | bencoh | stable shows 0.9.8zf alright |
| 14:26.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | Package: mp-fremantle-community-pr Version: 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo11 depends on ... libssl0.9.8 (>= 0.9.8zf-1+maemo1+0m5+0cssu0), |
| 14:27.35 | bencoh | DocScrutinizer05: where does that thing in your pastebin comes from then? |
| 14:27.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | my system says Package: mp-fremantle-community-pr Version: 21.2011.38-1Tmaemo11 is installed but libssl0.9.8 (>= 0.9.8zf-1+maemo1+0m5+0cssu0) isn't |
| 14:28.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | apt-cache show mp-fremantle-community-pr |
| 14:28.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | which btw is a PITA |
| 14:30.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | did somebody reintroduce ">=" despite maemo's apt is broken and can't handle those relations? Or did that get fixed or I'm dreaming the whole issue up? |
| 14:32.21 | KotCzarny | im still on stock and have 0.9.8n |
| 14:32.22 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 14:33.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | merlin1991: ^^^^^ |
| 14:39.15 | bencoh | DocScrutinizer05: where does http://paste.opensuse.org/86961458 come from? |
| 14:39.28 | bencoh | because it explicitely mentions 0.9.8n |
| 14:41.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/74734630 |
| 14:42.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | where that comes from? it's IroN900 shell |
| 14:43.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | and it does mention what? |
| 14:44.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wstaw.org/m/2017/01/10/plasma-desktopj17764.png |
| 14:46.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | bencoh: I guess I don't get your question, please rephrase |
| 14:53.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooooh wait, openssl0.98 vs LIBssl0.98 |
| 14:54.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | headdesks a little |
| 14:55.45 | *** join/#maemo RST38h (~marat@tissa.komkon.org) |
| 14:59.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | act is: apt-get upgrade as well as apt-cache policy tell me Installed: 0.9.8n-1+maemo4+0m5+0cssu1 Candidate: 0.9.8zf-1+maemo1+0m5+0cssu0, while I got cssu-t11 installed which on changelog claims it did that update |
| 14:59.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | fact* even |
| 15:00.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | so wtf *is* openssl? |
| 15:00.38 | *** join/#maemo RST38h (~marat@tissa.komkon.org) |
| 15:01.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | \o/ |
| 15:01.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# openssl --version |
| 15:01.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | openssl:Error: '--version' is an invalid command. |
| 15:01.14 | sicelo- | :) |
| 15:01.28 | sicelo- | sounds like you have closedssl |
| 15:02.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# openssl version |
| 15:02.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | OpenSSL 0.9.8n 24 Mar 2010 (Library: OpenSSL 0.9.8zf 19 Mar 2015) |
| 15:02.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | now that looks pretty much to the point |
| 15:02.41 | sicelo- | i have zh :-/ |
| 15:02.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | while `apt-cache policy openssl` gives me headache |
| 15:05.46 | sicelo- | ah, from -devel |
| 15:13.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | zh for what? lib or executable? |
| 15:19.23 | sicelo- | openssl |
| 15:20.43 | sicelo- | openssl: Installed: 0.9.8zh-1+maemo1+0m5+0cssu0 Candidate: 0.9.8zh-1+maemo1+0m5+0cssu0 |
| 15:21.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway HAM doesn't show me any updates, *until* I go to settings and "[x]show all packages" "[x]show magic system package" "[ ]ignore packages from wrong domains" |
| 15:22.57 | sicelo- | that zh is in devel though (and i didn't know about such HAM options) |
| 15:23.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | then a magic makes openssl appear: 0.9.8n -> 0.9.8zf |
| 15:23.32 | sicelo- | where is this option? "[x]show all packages" "[x]show magic system package" "[ ]ignore packages from wrong domains" |
| 15:23.40 | sicelo- | i don't see it in HAM here |
| 15:24.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | red pill mode :-) |
| 15:24.35 | sicelo- | ah |
| 15:25.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | you should see "[ ] enable red pill mode" I guess |
| 15:26.05 | sicelo- | i've never used RedPill mode .. that's a flasher thing, right? |
| 15:26.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | it enables those additional option in HAM |
| 15:26.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | and that's all it does |
| 15:26.53 | sicelo- | yes, but how do you even get into Red Pill mode? flasher? |
| 15:27.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | you should see "[ ] enable red pill mode" I guess |
| 15:27.34 | sicelo- | well i don't see anything like that |
| 15:27.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | iirc it (red pill mode option) is enabled in CSSU-HAM |
| 15:28.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~redpill |
| 15:28.09 | infobot | hmm... redpill is http://wiki.maemo.org/Red_Pill_mode |
| 15:28.30 | buZz | which packet gets me the 'ip' tool? |
| 15:28.42 | KotCzarny | iproute2 or busybox-gnu or something |
| 15:28.56 | KotCzarny | but watch out when replacing standard tools |
| 15:30.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Red_Pill_mode#Activating |
| 15:31.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | buZz: http://maemo.org/packages/search/?org_maemo_packages_search%5B1%5D%5Bproperty%5D=name&org_maemo_packages_search%5B1%5D%5Bconstraint%5D=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search%5B1%5D%5Bvalue%5D=iputil&org_maemo_packages_search%5B2%5D%5Bproperty%5D=title&org_maemo_packages_search%5B2%5D%5Bconstraint%5D=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search%5B2%5D%5Bvalue%5D=same |
| 15:33.00 | buZz | so, neither? :D |
| 15:33.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.org/packages/view/traceroute/ http://maemo.org/packages/view/iproute/ etc |
| 15:33.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | prolly neither, don't know. Let me know if you find it |
| 15:34.42 | *** join/#maemo xorly (~xorly@ip-89-176-102-19.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 15:34.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's not like 2ip" is a particularly nice searchstring ;-) |
| 15:35.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | "ip" even |
| 15:35.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | try http://maemo.org/packages/search/?org_maemo_packages_search%5B1%5D%5Bproperty%5D=name&org_maemo_packages_search%5B1%5D%5Bconstraint%5D=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search%5B1%5D%5Bvalue%5D=ip&org_maemo_packages_search%5B2%5D%5Bproperty%5D=title&org_maemo_packages_search%5B2%5D%5Bconstraint%5D=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search%5B2%5D%5Bvalue%5D=same and gave fun |
| 15:35.43 | KotCzarny | buzz, check apt-cache search ip2 (but i guess its in iproute) |
| 15:37.10 | buZz | hmhm, apt-get install iproute |
| 15:37.22 | buZz | it wasnt in app manager though :( |
| 15:41.49 | *** join/#maemo zGrr (~Grr@188.146.92.226.nat.umts.dynamic.t-mobile.pl) |
| 15:42.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.org/packages/view/iproute/ |
| 15:42.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | aah you already found it |
| 15:42.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, HAM doesn't usually show cmdline tools |
| 15:43.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | you need redpill mode if you want that |
| 15:43.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | the idea is to use apt-get install for cmdline tools, since this is also cmdline |
| 15:44.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | install GUI tools via HAM GUI, install cmdline tools via apt-get install cmdline |
| 15:44.35 | buZz | cool cool |
| 15:44.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | makes sense? |
| 15:45.11 | buZz | i guess :P |
| 15:45.31 | buZz | not like me disagreeing would change anything ;) |
| 15:46.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | whyt you can find in HAM are the tools to *access* cmdline, kike ssh(d), xterm etc |
| 15:46.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | like* |
| 15:53.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw for red pill mode: catalogs: 'new' "URL: 'matrix'" cancel, still works |
| 15:54.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | which is sort of cute ;-) |
| 15:54.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | loves easter eggs |
| 16:01.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | to those who love hacking away with web services, autobuilders, midgard, servers at large etc: http://maemo.org/packages/view/openssl/ (as well as all other packages there) lacks integration of CSSU when there's a package released via CSSU(-T|-S) |
| 16:02.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | like http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_ssu_pr1-2_armel/openssl/0.9.8g-15maemo4+0m5/ http://maemo.org/packages/repository/list/fremantle_ssu_pr1-2_armel/ |
| 16:03.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | is still lost as to where from that mysterious openssl-0.9.8zf package comes from |
| 16:07.20 | bencoh | from cssu? |
| 16:09.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm prolly, I guess so |
| 16:10.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm terribly bad with repositories, git, and similar stuff. Also not exactly an apt expert |
| 16:11.32 | *** part/#maemo ceene (~ceene@collins.gmr.ssr.upm.es) |
| 16:11.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm trying to understand why there's an openssl-0.9.8z and if or if not it should have been included to last CSSU-T metapackage for update |
| 16:11.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | openssl-0.9.8zf even |
| 16:12.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | I *guess* CSSU has no nice web interface in http://maemo.org/packages/ since it also has no autobuilder |
| 16:13.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | so I'm lost to investigate stuff with CSSU since such web interface is generally my only known approach to what's going on |
| 16:14.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't even know the sourcecode repo URL of CSSU |
| 16:14.54 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: it is in cssu |
| 16:15.07 | freemangordon | openssl-zf that is |
| 16:15.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: assumed as much |
| 16:17.04 | freemangordon | https://github.com/community-ssu/openssl/commits/master |
| 16:17.10 | freemangordon | hmm, there is something weird |
| 16:17.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | why is that stuff on github and not on maemo.org? |
| 16:18.00 | freemangordon | where on maemo.org? |
| 16:19.00 | KotCzarny | :> |
| 16:19.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, you're serious? |
| 16:20.46 | *** join/#maemo ceene (~ceene@collins.gmr.ssr.upm.es) |
| 16:21.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok, let's say garage |
| 16:22.27 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: because cssu has never been there - it was on gitorious, then moved to github |
| 16:22.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, that doesn't answer my question though :-) |
| 16:23.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | it just feels strange |
| 16:23.45 | bencoh | 18:17 < freemangordon> hmm, there is something weird |
| 16:23.49 | bencoh | what's weird? |
| 16:23.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | then, maemo never *really* provided a consistent sourcode repo infra for everything |
| 16:24.37 | freemangordon | bencoh: there is no zf in the repo |
| 16:24.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.org/packages/source/view/fremantle_extras-devel_free_source/puzzle-master/1.2.2/ |
| 16:25.10 | KotCzarny | fmg, maybe in testing/thumb2? |
| 16:25.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | enphasis on *source* |
| 16:25.26 | bencoh | freemangordon: wtf? :D |
| 16:25.38 | bencoh | well maybe I built mine from source? :D |
| 16:26.04 | bencoh | (I have a hybrid stable with homebrew packages) |
| 16:26.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | but ignore me, I'm a real noob and prolly a pain to discuss with when it comes to repos and git and stuff |
| 16:26.10 | freemangordon | or you get it from cssu-devel |
| 16:26.15 | KotCzarny | bencoh, doc also had zf version of the lib |
| 16:26.26 | bencoh | freemangordon: nah I don't install from -devel |
| 16:26.36 | bencoh | DocScrutinizer05: gathered that already :D |
| 16:26.40 | bencoh | (no offense :p) |
| 16:26.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | none taken :-D I mean it |
| 16:27.12 | KotCzarny | https://github.com/community-ssu/openssl/tree/thumb-testing |
| 16:27.14 | KotCzarny | has zh |
| 16:27.30 | freemangordon | well, in cssu-devel is zf as well, so NFC where you got that from :) |
| 16:27.37 | freemangordon | sorry, zh |
| 16:27.57 | bencoh | freemangordon: http://repository.maemo.org/community/pool/fremantle/free/o/openssl/libssl-dev_0.9.8zf-1%2bmaemo1%2b0m5%2b0cssu0_armel.deb |
| 16:28.03 | freemangordon | aah, wait, zh is NEVWER than zf |
| 16:28.08 | bencoh | looks like zf alright |
| 16:28.09 | bencoh | yeah |
| 16:28.11 | freemangordon | *NEWER |
| 16:28.20 | freemangordon | so everything is fine then |
| 16:28.23 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 16:28.24 | bencoh | in ascii order, h > f :D |
| 16:28.29 | freemangordon | yeah |
| 16:28.30 | bencoh | unlike qwerty order |
| 16:28.37 | KotCzarny | apart from still being 0.9.8 and not 1.x ;) |
| 16:28.37 | bencoh | strike that |
| 16:28.43 | bencoh | even in qwerty order :D |
| 16:29.08 | freemangordon | it is about -12deg here, I suspect my brain is frozen :) |
| 16:29.21 | KotCzarny | you need more ethanol as an antifreeze |
| 16:29.44 | freemangordon | looks like |
| 16:29.58 | freemangordon | which reminds me... |
| 16:30.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: still, why is there a openssl that's newer than the latest openssl (not) installed by CSSU-T11? |
| 16:30.53 | freemangordon | because it is in cssu-devel |
| 16:31.02 | freemangordon | remeber devel->testing->stable |
| 16:31.09 | freemangordon | *remember |
| 16:31.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, I don't know of any cssu-devel I ever touched, still my apt-get wants to install the openssl-0.9.8zf |
| 16:31.52 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: ask cssu maintainer, I have no idea |
| 16:32.08 | freemangordon | or....wait |
| 16:32.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | so openssl-0.9.8zf must be in cssu-t repo |
| 16:32.14 | freemangordon | it wants to install zf? |
| 16:32.40 | freemangordon | it is ok then, as that was the version supposed to go int -testing some 1-y years ago |
| 16:32.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: http://paste.opensuse.org/74734630 |
| 16:32.54 | freemangordon | 1-2 years |
| 16:33.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: no it's not ok, since as you say >>supposed to go int -testing<< but isn't in cssu-t11 MP |
| 16:33.57 | freemangordon | dunno, ask the maintainers |
| 16:34.39 | freemangordon | keep in mind we have new maintainer, maybe he just overlooked it |
| 16:35.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | umm, see http://paste.opensuse.org/74734630 line8 |
| 16:35.45 | freemangordon | yeah |
| 16:36.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | I just don't understand if maybe all is fine and cssu-t repo indeed is supposed to provide newer version of stuff that were not included in last metapackage upgrade |
| 16:36.58 | bencoh | new maintainer hasn't officially released a new version iirc |
| 16:37.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | after all user is _not_ supposed to ever run apt-get upgrade aiui |
| 16:37.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's prolly more a question about policies |
| 16:38.01 | freemangordon | yes, there is still no official release afaik, I guess guys are preparing release |
| 16:38.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | what the cssu architects defined how cssu shall work |
| 16:38.09 | freemangordon | but it is moving slow |
| 16:38.41 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: the "official" way to uptade is through HAM and mp- thingie |
| 16:38.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | might be a perfectly normal thing to add new packages after last MP release |
| 16:38.56 | freemangordon | no, it is not |
| 16:39.02 | freemangordon | see ^^^ |
| 16:39.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry I don't get it |
| 16:40.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>add new packages after last MP release<< is something devels do, while >>uptade is through HAM and mp- thingie<< is a thing users do |
| 16:41.10 | freemangordon | just a second |
| 16:41.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | so I don't see why a devel adding a new package can't be something normal |
| 16:42.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's a question if according to CSSU policies this is sth devels are allowed to do or not |
| 16:42.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | I had no problem with the openssl-0.9.8zf in HAM, only in apt-get upgrade which is deprecated anyway |
| 16:45.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | what looks weird is CSSU-T changelog that clearly claims openssl got updated, NOT libssl |
| 16:45.32 | freemangordon | sorry, had a phone call |
| 16:45.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | np :-) |
| 16:46.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | openssl clearly isn't updated via cssu-t11 MP |
| 16:46.23 | bencoh | DocScrutinizer05: openssl zf depends on libssl zf |
| 16:46.28 | bencoh | so it should eventually work |
| 16:47.11 | bencoh | err, strike that |
| 16:47.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | bencoh: that's no problem since libssl *got* updated via cssu-t11, but _not_ openssl |
| 16:48.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | my openssl still works, see >> IroN900:~# openssl version OpenSSL 0.9.8n 24 Mar 2010 (Library: OpenSSL 0.9.8zf 19 Mar 2015)<< |
| 16:48.15 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: you don;t realy need openssl afaik |
| 16:48.28 | freemangordon | this is something you installed by hand |
| 16:48.39 | KotCzarny | its just that on normal systems openssl is bundled with libssl |
| 16:48.41 | freemangordon | so you should upgrade it by hand as well |
| 16:48.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | oooh. this might be it indeed |
| 16:48.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-D |
| 16:48.53 | freemangordon | ;) |
| 16:49.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | wow |
| 16:49.07 | freemangordon | mystery revealed :) |
| 16:49.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | thanks a megaton! :-) |
| 16:52.04 | bencoh | huhu |
| 16:52.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmmm, >>grep openssl installed-aps.sh<< doesn't yield hits, so... This doesn't mean I'm sure I didn't install manually. It's just a string indication I didn't install it manually via "apt-get install openssl" with my apt wrapper in place |
| 16:53.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | might however gotten pulled in as a dependency by another package |
| 16:54.01 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 16:54.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | who knows... maybe it's now the moment to shrug and get dinner istead |
| 16:54.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | instead* |
| 16:56.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe the "WARNING" in there is relevant? http://paste.opensuse.org/17456971 |
| 17:00.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmmm, looks a tad terse, but ok |
| 17:00.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# openssl version |
| 17:00.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | OpenSSL 0.9.8zf 19 Mar 2015 |
| 17:01.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe ubersmart, only listing libssl version when it differs |
| 17:03.12 | kerio | there's also the issue that RHEL might not patch some stuff |
| 17:03.16 | kerio | if it's not relevant to RHEL |
| 17:06.23 | *** join/#maemo drrz (~drrzz@162.216.46.99) |
| 17:08.47 | *** join/#maemo louisdk (~louisdk@static-5-103-130-65.seas-nve.net) |
| 17:13.42 | *** join/#maemo dafox (~dafox@92.69.205.2) |
| 17:15.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | to core problem is: maemo's repo concept is fubar (and always been) thanks to Nokia doing lazy with their MP. To somewhat fix it we ages back once defined a way to specify/distinguish mandatory from optional updates in CSSU repo, so eventually we could get rid of that MP crap |
| 17:15.25 | kerio | it works for me tho |
| 17:15.30 | kerio | like |
| 17:15.38 | kerio | i can apt-get upgrade and apt-get autoremove |
| 17:15.50 | kerio | i just had to set the manually installed packages correctly |
| 17:16.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | apt-get autoremove generally breaks things, at least it did in the past |
| 17:16.35 | kerio | (and obviously i don't have a -mp) |
| 17:16.50 | kerio | (because procps) |
| 17:16.57 | kerio | (and some other package too i think) |
| 17:17.10 | *** join/#maemo marmistrz (~marmistrz@dhcp-94.eduroam.core.icm.edu.pl) |
| 17:17.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I actually wonder if an apt-get upgrade with only CSSU repo enabled should yield the intended results and thus was a thing to do every now and then |
| 17:17.41 | kerio | worksforme \_o_/ |
| 17:17.48 | kerio | you could also just attempt to install the -mp |
| 17:17.51 | kerio | and see if anything gets updated |
| 17:19.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/48629861 |
| 17:19.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, you missed something relevant |
| 17:19.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe *you* should do that ;-) |
| 17:20.23 | *** join/#maemo Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali) |
| 17:21.00 | kerio | :o |
| 17:21.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | *I* _did_ apt-get -s install mp-fremantle-community-pr and the result was everything is just fine |
| 17:24.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | tbh apt-get didn't do much since it noticed the mp-fremantle-community-pr is already up-to-date |
| 17:32.09 | kerio | well i thought you didn't have the pr |
| 17:32.12 | kerio | just upgrade |
| 17:32.16 | kerio | you can refuse the upgrade |
| 17:55.57 | *** join/#maemo stryngs (~stryngs@img.ethicalreporting.org) |
| 18:19.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/52891488 |
| 18:26.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://termbin.com/ulc1 |
| 18:28.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't think I want to update community-ssu-enabler |
| 18:29.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | I rather want to uninstall it, thought I already did |
| 18:41.02 | *** join/#maemo clopez (~tau@neutrino.es) |
| 18:50.57 | freemangordon | guys, anyone interested in helping me with upstream gtk2 fremantle? I need builder/debian repo infra help |
| 18:51.51 | freemangordon | and I need help with upstart etc stuff |
| 18:53.36 | freemangordon | ..and with debian packaging/autotools, to forward-port what is in fremantle, trivial, but time-consuming job I'd appreciate help for |
| 18:55.05 | freemangordon | otherwise the progress is good so far, I have h-d and status-menu running on devuan x86-64 VMware VM, libhildon needs some more love, but I'll take care of it |
| 18:55.41 | freemangordon | Wizzup: KotCzarny: MoeIcenowy: ^^^ ? |
| 19:08.19 | Wizzup | freemangordon: yes, I will help with builder/debian repo infra |
| 19:08.38 | Wizzup | Do you have suggestions on what to start with |
| 19:08.52 | Wizzup | Ah, so you're working on intel hw right now, I guess that is easier driver wise |
| 19:09.38 | Wizzup | freemangordon: Other than getting the basic things done and reading about it, do you have specific things to do? e.g. start with h-d and its dependencies, then go for status-menu ? |
| 19:11.51 | Wizzup | ok, back in a bit, gotta make my way home through the snow |
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| 19:15.12 | buZz | hmmf |
| 19:15.33 | buZz | 2gb /home is kinda small :P time for trickery |
| 19:16.02 | Wizzup | I want to try to get the building going on soon, but also see if it's at all possible get an image for the arm tablets autobuild. Likely most of it goes hand in hand. |
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| 19:55.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~tell buZz about jrtools |
| 19:56.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | buZz: honestly the simplest way to reflash with patched vanilla fiascofile, then restore everything |
| 19:57.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | though, I never seen real need for >2GB home |
| 19:59.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | you most likely even could use BM to restore to 100% identical content of rootfs and /home, after reflashing with larger /home partition. Just take care about MyDocs which will shrink as /home frows, and will not get backed-up (nor restored ;-D) by BM |
| 20:00.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~bm |
| 20:00.03 | infobot | backupmenu is, like, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975, or one-click install handling dependency issues: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/et_al/HAM-catalogs/BM.install |
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| 20:00.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | obviously you want to store your backups on uSD, _not_ in MyDocs, when you want to reflash vanilla |
| 20:01.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | bbl, dinner. Cheers |
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| 21:26.30 | freemangordon | Wizzup: well, as I start I want an autobuilder/repo that pull packages from github and does nigthly builds (of what has benn changed ofc) |
| 21:26.50 | freemangordon | *been |
| 21:27.01 | freemangordon | and puts the result in a debian repo |
| 21:28.03 | freemangordon | going initially for x86 is not because of the drivers, but because of the VM |
| 21:28.10 | freemangordon | it is waaay faster |
| 21:28.59 | freemangordon | network-wise as well - I am opening source files through network, which if done through wifi is very slow |
| 21:29.36 | freemangordon | but, there is nothing (or at least should not be) x86-64 specific |
| 21:30.12 | freemangordon | Wizzup: also, do you have any idea about multi-arch? |
| 21:30.46 | freemangordon | bencoh: BTW, feel invited as well :) |
| 21:31.50 | freemangordon | just to note - most of the job (besides clutter and gtk/libhildon stuff) is really trivial |
| 21:32.35 | freemangordon | deprecated function (like g_thread_init), newer automake, newer debian build system - nothing complicated so far |
| 21:32.40 | freemangordon | *functions |
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| 22:05.35 | Wizzup | florian: what do you mean, wrt multi arch? |
| 22:05.44 | Wizzup | rt |
| 22:05.46 | Wizzup | er.. |
| 22:05.51 | Wizzup | freemangordon: what do you mean, wrt multi arch? |
| 22:06.15 | Wizzup | (also a bit sick, so will be brief, but, YES, I want to help, and I will pick up auto builds) |
| 22:06.21 | Wizzup | Hoping for others to help as well |
| 22:06.33 | Wizzup | devuan already pointed me about their systems for (auto) building |
| 22:06.48 | Wizzup | I'll talk to parazyd on wed or so and arrange accounts |
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| 22:16.57 | freemangordon | Wizzup: well, there is something in ubuntu/debian called multi-arch, I guess this is wehen youput .so files in /usr/lib/$arch/ instead of /usr/lib |
| 22:17.31 | freemangordon | and I guess here is where my knowledge on the matter ends :) |
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