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| 16:09.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | pali, freemangordon: GET DECENT MAIL PROVIDER!! GMAIL SUCKS!! |
| 16:10.07 | freemangordon | hmm? |
| 16:11.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/85232339 |
| 16:11.52 | freemangordon | cute. I have one more mail address, you should know it |
| 16:14.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | tell that pali |
| 16:18.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway find my replies on the MLs |
| 16:21.28 | freemangordon | yep |
| 16:23.14 | KotCzarny | maybe openkomo.org is abused by someone |
| 16:23.41 | KotCzarny | or someone sends mails directly instead of ml |
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| 17:19.46 | KotCzarny | also, pasting ivo's email address onto pastebin service and posting the link on irc which in effect becomes publicly visible for spam bots? |
| 17:20.25 | KotCzarny | unless done to discourage him from using that account, heh |
| 17:20.46 | KotCzarny | oroh, joerg's email is also in that pastebin |
| 17:20.52 | KotCzarny | *otoh |
| 17:23.01 | sicelo- | :p |
| 17:23.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://marc.info/?l=linux-kernel&m=138730321007281&w=2 |
| 17:24.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm no jackass |
| 17:24.48 | bencoh | "I am very reluctant in letting device trees specify exports of GPIOs to userspace" he's quite right, btw |
| 17:24.57 | bencoh | dunno about this specific case, but ... |
| 17:26.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | (jackass & URL) about the email addr only |
| 17:26.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | not even looked at the content |
| 17:27.24 | bencoh | right |
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| 17:33.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | however this licky find shows nicely why it's a pretty poor idea to have too platform specific stuff getting handled in kernel space. You generally cannot cope with all arbitrarily wicked hw dependencies and concepts in kernel in a generalized generic manner |
| 17:34.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless you run your own platform specific kernel which is my preferred approach |
| 17:34.17 | bencoh | DocScrutinizer05: he is talking about devicetree |
| 17:34.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | a general purpose kernel is bloatware, inevitably |
| 17:34.40 | bencoh | which isn't part of the kernel, strictly speaking |
| 17:34.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | bencoh: I know |
| 17:34.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | only one aspect of kernel space handling of hw |
| 17:35.06 | bencoh | something like that |
| 17:35.38 | bencoh | but still platform-specific by design |
| 17:35.50 | KotCzarny | well, linux/unix had a great idea, everything is a file, simplifying all those device specifics into simple open/read/write/close |
| 17:36.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | it takes me 10 minutes to xome up with 5 weird but RL examples for hw that simply can't get handled by any known kernel concepts |
| 17:36.08 | bencoh | KotCzarny: and we eventually ended up with ... ioctl ;) |
| 17:36.28 | KotCzarny | bencoh, unfortunatelly |
| 17:36.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | except "specific device driver" |
| 17:37.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | a DT is always a *massive* abstraction of what's physically there in real device hw |
| 17:37.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | an abstraction is defined as ignoring minor details to generalize |
| 17:38.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | it may work as long as those ignored minor details are irrelevant or at least negligible |
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| 18:01.44 | KotCzarny | or as long interface is sensibly designed and not made for totaly differnt use case |
| 18:01.57 | KotCzarny | *totally |
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| 19:21.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_N9#Reception *sigh* |
| 19:24.47 | buZz | NeoN9 tomorrow? |
| 19:24.48 | buZz | :P |
| 19:31.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | technically Neo900 is more a N9 than a N900 ;-) |
| 19:32.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | at least it hase same CPU and same memory as N9 |
| 19:32.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | has* |
| 19:33.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | OMAP3630 with 1GB of RAM (512MB NAND) |
| 19:34.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, Neo900 has OMAP3730 which is a 3630 without the HS crap |
| 19:34.42 | buZz | :D |
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| 19:36.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | but Nokia failed so epically with actually using opportunities they had with N9/HARM |
| 19:36.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's like suicide |
| 19:37.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | many thanks Elop! |
| 19:37.24 | KotCzarny | money talks |
| 19:39.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | then OTOH you could argue that Jolla was the legitimate successor and they pretty much failed in picking up either |
| 19:41.16 | KotCzarny | money talks |
| 19:41.34 | KotCzarny | not enough marketing/selling power |
| 19:41.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | in my book mostly thanks to ignoring the mess in N9 from above mentioned HS crap and the Aegis annoyance that based on it, and not learning from it so they fell into another pitfall of basically identicall type with their snapdragon |
| 19:41.52 | Vajb | i had such high hopes from Jolla, but didn't even buy it after i read some user opinions |
| 19:43.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | and also they didn't learn from the ~closed mess in maemo and HARM and instead of improving on that aspect that always been flawed in Nokia, they done even worse |
| 19:43.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | at least that's my perception of the story |
| 19:44.47 | KotCzarny | seriously, how many geeks are really opensource conscious? and at the same time having enough buying power to float such open platform? |
| 19:45.13 | KotCzarny | regular joe wouldnt chose phone just based on that |
| 19:56.03 | sicelo- | i wouldn't mind a Jolla C if it was available this side |
| 19:57.25 | NIN101 | well then came ubuntu touch, but they failed. you have root and everything, which is great, but it was full of bugs when I tried it and barely useful. |
| 20:00.49 | NIN101 | you don't hear much from them either anymore, I wouldn't be surpirsed if soon we will see an announcment that the project is officially abandoned |
| 20:36.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | didn't they alrady re-focus on IoT and TV sets? |
| 20:36.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | or was that firefox-OS |
| 20:38.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | they all share one common problem: focus on app development only, completely neglecting the need of a proper tailored-to-the-usecase core OS and middleware |
| 20:39.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | the generic linux is *NOT* suited very well for embedded phone usecase |
| 20:40.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | Android had to learn that lesson the hard way, and went pretty far into the outback while trying to cope with the consequences |
| 20:40.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | so far that I for one refuse to consider Android a legit linux anymore |
| 20:40.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | maemo did it right |
| 20:41.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | it seems other similar projects like Ubuntu and FireFox didn't even get the catch of it at all |
| 20:44.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | openWRT comes from routers thus embedded and so they have all the kernel stuff pretty much in shape, but they lack the middleware |
| 20:45.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | all other fools come from desktop and so they don't even see why e.g. systemd might not be the right thing for embedded |
| 20:46.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | and why you need to absolutely forbid polling for all processes from kernel drivers to high level apps |
| 20:49.22 | KotCzarny | https://www.neowin.net/news/end-of-the-line-microsoft-is-no-longer-selling-any-lumia-windows-phones-on-its-us-store |
| 20:50.05 | KotCzarny | so, what does nokia do nowadays? |
| 20:51.17 | sicelo- | ozo .. |
| 20:52.49 | CatButts | ouzo? |
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| 20:55.08 | Vajb | tyre and rubber boot manufacturing.... |
| 20:56.07 | sicelo- | help please - i want to make an application (pyqt if possible, or pygtk) - i need to open an image, fill the entire window with the image. as the image may be larger than the display size, i should be able to pan it. zooming is not important, although it wouldn't hurt. in addition, i need to draw on top of the image - perhaps just a few points should suffice at first. finally, save the resulting image. is this something either pyqt/pygtyk can do by itse |
| 20:56.39 | sicelo- | my problem is that i cannot even find information online .. no idea what keywords to use :-/ |
| 20:59.51 | KotCzarny | i think that's nokia's extension |
| 20:59.56 | KotCzarny | pannable windows |
| 21:00.28 | KotCzarny | it was only added in gtk3 in generic |
| 21:01.11 | KotCzarny | check for: pygtk tutorial, maybe pygtk image viewer, then pygtk drawing app |
| 21:01.12 | sicelo- | i would like to think it's doable with 'standard' tools... for exampley, mypaint seems to be a python application, and runs on regular linux |
| 21:01.21 | KotCzarny | then combine all those into one app |
| 21:01.33 | sicelo- | will look further .. i see terms such as 'pixmap' etc :-/ |
| 21:01.34 | KotCzarny | you may also check oscp-remote.py |
| 21:01.47 | KotCzarny | it draws onto window in winamp-skin-mode |
| 21:02.20 | sicelo- | cool. will look |
| 21:02.21 | KotCzarny | anyway, nite nite |
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