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| 10:07.57 | L29Ah | oink oink |
| 10:08.00 | L29Ah | Wizzup oink |
| 10:08.04 | Wizzup | hi! |
| 10:08.16 | L29Ah | oink |
| 10:08.19 | Wizzup | let me guess: you want grsec added in the mix? :P |
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| 10:09.05 | Wizzup | L29Ah: blogpost right? |
| 10:09.05 | L29Ah | well, my friend tried installing grsec on debian and got a lot of problems with maintainers that don't care |
| 10:09.09 | L29Ah | comparing to gentoo |
| 10:09.24 | L29Ah | so i don't really expect it |
| 10:09.29 | L29Ah | Wizzup: roadmap |
| 10:09.33 | Wizzup | L29Ah: ack |
| 10:14.20 | bencoh | :] |
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| 15:10.41 | valdyn | OBOA123 |
| 15:10.41 | valdyn | |
| 15:10.59 | KotCzarny | invalid password, please retry |
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| 17:17.48 | fishbulb | if an external dac works in android 4.0 or later will it work with the latest cssu stable? |
| 17:19.15 | fishbulb | is support for it likely to be in the kernel |
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| 20:15.01 | ymartin59 | Hello |
| 20:16.33 | ymartin59 | I am building keepassx 2.0.3 with FREMANTLE_ARMEL_GCC472 and I wonder how it may be published in extras-devel ? |
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| 20:18.05 | Pali | ymartin59: Hi! IIRC Maemo extras is not based on gcc 4.7 |
| 20:18.09 | Pali | only gcc 4.2 |
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| 20:18.33 | Pali | only thumb-testing is based for gcc 4.7 |
| 20:18.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation |
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| 20:29.18 | ymartin59 | OK but my first target is thumb I am running on device... |
| 20:29.42 | ymartin59 | I would try to "backport" to gcc 4.2 after |
| 20:29.54 | Pali | maemo extras is not thumb based |
| 20:30.29 | Pali | you must compile your application for non-thumb if you target maemo extras |
| 20:30.57 | Pali | you can change scratchbox target from FREMANTLE_ARMEL_GCC472 to FREMANTLE_ARMEL (which is not thumb) |
| 20:34.47 | bencoh | you prolly want to upload a source package to extras* anyway, so ... |
| 20:35.09 | KotCzarny | submit to cssu-thumb maintainer? |
| 20:35.22 | KotCzarny | cssu-thumb is both: thumb AND 4.7.2 |
| 20:35.47 | KotCzarny | though if its not a system package.. |
| 20:35.48 | Pali | cssu is not for additional applications |
| 20:35.58 | Pali | it is only for system maemo packages |
| 20:35.58 | KotCzarny | yeah, just realised |
| 20:36.06 | Pali | those which cannot be put into extras |
| 20:36.08 | KotCzarny | maybe we need extras-thumb ? |
| 20:36.16 | Pali | yes :-) |
| 20:36.39 | Pali | but I have no idea how hard is to configure such thing on maemo autobuilder... |
| 20:37.07 | KotCzarny | me neither, but idea is very nice, also there would be some priority issues |
| 20:37.42 | KotCzarny | and dependency problems |
| 20:38.41 | ymartin59 | Well I guess I can work harder to get this recent source code and build chain on ARMEL 4.2 with debhelper 7 |
| 20:44.05 | bencoh | actually we dont need extras-thumb |
| 20:44.15 | bencoh | we need another build variant |
| 20:45.02 | bencoh | (x86, armel, armelthumb) |
| 20:47.15 | freemangordon | bencoh: no, it is still armel |
| 20:48.04 | freemangordon | we can workaround a bit by depending on kernel-feature-errata-whateveritwas, but then you will pull a whole new kernel if you install from humb repo |
| 20:49.15 | freemangordon | merlin1991: do you remember how often is stage synced to live? |
| 20:49.48 | bencoh | I know this is still armel stricly speaking, but ... how would you define it? |
| 20:50.07 | bencoh | it should be orthogonal to extras/testing/devel |
| 20:50.25 | freemangordon | oops, -ECHAN |
| 20:50.33 | freemangordon | bencoh: dunno |
| 20:55.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd consider thumb another arch, like x86 also is another arch than armel |
| 20:55.41 | KotCzarny | extrasT, extrasT-devel ? |
| 20:55.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | strictly speaking it's another processor |
| 20:55.49 | KotCzarny | but |
| 20:56.05 | KotCzarny | if fmg and pali pull the mainline trick off, we will have real new arch, armhf |
| 20:56.06 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 20:56.17 | KotCzarny | which could be merged with thumb |
| 20:56.36 | Pali | hehe, but not possible |
| 20:56.41 | Pali | too many maemo blobs |
| 20:56.48 | Pali | and armel != armhf, not compatible |
| 20:56.58 | KotCzarny | i know, that's why its another arch |
| 20:57.28 | KotCzarny | and question is if we can ignore those blobs and still have wanted functionality |
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| 20:57.37 | Pali | no, cannot |
| 20:57.47 | freemangordon | not on n900 at least |
| 20:57.52 | Pali | it is not another arch |
| 20:58.00 | Pali | it is still armel architecture |
| 20:58.16 | Pali | just with optional thumb2 isa |
| 20:58.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly |
| 20:58.31 | Pali | you can still run non-thumb2 binaries |
| 20:58.43 | KotCzarny | but not backward compatible |
| 20:58.44 | Pali | and you can mix thumb2 and non-thumb2 libraries |
| 20:58.50 | KotCzarny | so kind pentium vs pentium-mmx |
| 20:58.51 | freemangordon | KotCzarny: it is |
| 20:58.58 | freemangordon | no |
| 20:59.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, on 686 you can run 486 |
| 20:59.08 | Pali | it is backward compatible |
| 20:59.23 | Pali | exactly as DocScrutinizer05 said |
| 20:59.35 | freemangordon | the whole problem is that CPU is buggy, not that it is anoter arch |
| 20:59.37 | KotCzarny | but you cant run 686 on 486 |
| 20:59.51 | KotCzarny | that's why i've said 'backward' |
| 21:00.01 | Pali | yea, it is not forward-compatible |
| 21:00.13 | Pali | but is backward |
| 21:00.15 | KotCzarny | anyway, sleepy time. bb! |
| 21:00.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd consider armel-thumb a pretty good solution |
| 21:01.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | seamless integration into maemo.extras* |
| 21:01.32 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: I think it will be not that easy |
| 21:01.46 | freemangordon | we need to teach debhelper about armel-thumb |
| 21:01.57 | Pali | you cannot use new architecture name |
| 21:02.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | you need to do that anyway, no? |
| 21:02.04 | freemangordon | no |
| 21:02.12 | Pali | because in debian you cannot mix different architectures easily |
| 21:02.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't get it |
| 21:02.38 | freemangordon | the only workaround is to put depends in debian/control |
| 21:02.40 | Pali | thumb2 compiled packages must always be "armel" |
| 21:02.55 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: armel is ABI |
| 21:03.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, for this topic it's a key in repo management, nothing else |
| 21:03.26 | Pali | maybe we could modify debhelper/dpkg/dpkg-buildpackage to automatically put Depends when compiling for thumb? |
| 21:03.29 | ymartin59 | whatabout restrict "thumb" binaries into a specific "lib" and "bin" folders ? |
| 21:03.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/key/attribute/ |
| 21:03.54 | ymartin59 | like multi-arch debian with "lib-i686" and "lib-amd64" ? |
| 21:03.55 | freemangordon | Pali: yes, this is what I was saying with "Depends:" workaroud |
| 21:04.12 | Pali | ok |
| 21:04.56 | freemangordon | ymartin59: the point there is that i386 and amd64 define different ABI, not that they are instruction set wise incompatible |
| 21:05.09 | ymartin59 | OK understood |
| 21:05.09 | freemangordon | the same stands for armel vs armhf |
| 21:05.52 | ymartin59 | a question: where could I get ARM specifications ? |
| 21:05.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | a differing ABI is no mandatory requirement though |
| 21:06.50 | freemangordon | ymartin59: on ARM site |
| 21:06.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | and actually the ABI differs between arm-w/o-thumb and full arm |
| 21:07.06 | freemangordon | Pali: maybe promote u-oot-tools as well |
| 21:07.16 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: no |
| 21:07.22 | Pali | ok, promote |
| 21:07.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, in thumb libs you may have impair function adresses |
| 21:07.44 | freemangordon | function arguments are still passed through r0-r4 |
| 21:07.51 | freemangordon | this is the ABI |
| 21:08.02 | Pali | thumb2 has same -abi as arm |
| 21:08.09 | freemangordon | :nod: |
| 21:08.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, mere ARM doesn't allow odd function addr |
| 21:08.35 | freemangordon | Pali: me to promote it? |
| 21:08.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | and that is as much ABI as registers for parameters |
| 21:08.50 | Pali | please do it |
| 21:09.29 | freemangordon | it doesn't have enough votes :) |
| 21:09.39 | freemangordon | and seems flasher does not depend on it |
| 21:09.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | irrespective, when a new ABI means you need a new arch doesn't mean the reciprocal "new arch needs new ABI" |
| 21:10.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can have two arch with identical ABI |
| 21:11.09 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: anyway, we will have to teach debhelper and whatnot for this new arch |
| 21:11.23 | freemangordon | which is mission impossible |
| 21:13.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | I can't comment on that - never looked into debhelper. But assuming it's FOSS why would it be "mission impossible"? |
| 21:14.27 | ymartin59 | By the way, I just got my keepassx_2.0.2-1~maemo1_armel.deb package built with FREMANTLE_ARMEL_GCC472 toolchain |
| 21:14.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | on non-thumb any debhelper only needs to ignore the unknown new arch. On thumb targets you can install a patched debhelper (if that thing even needed on tatget) |
| 21:14.42 | freemangordon | because it will need resources we don;t have :), both manpower and experience |
| 21:14.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaah, oooh |
| 21:15.05 | freemangordon | ymartin59: congrats |
| 21:15.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | when we don't have the manpower to implement thumb into maemo-extras repo environment, we're busted anyway |
| 21:16.47 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: me, personally, for example - I prefer to spent my time on porting h-d to gtk3 and allwinner, that to spend it trying to kep stuff which will die as soon as the last n900 dies. which will be not that far from now |
| 21:17.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O |
| 21:18.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | and that's maemo related? |
| 21:18.16 | ymartin59 | My N900 dying ? not yet... and still have spares |
| 21:18.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly thumb related? |
| 21:18.34 | freemangordon | why surprised? for how much longer do you think there will be n900 users? when almost every day one or another service on the device stops working? |
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| 21:19.03 | freemangordon | ymartin59: not HW wise, but SW wise |
| 21:20.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | can'T follow that rationale at all |
| 21:20.36 | ymartin59 | Anyway I found a quick fix to build with gcc 4.2... |
| 21:20.52 | freemangordon | I really think we should focus on moving maemo to other HW platforms and newer distros. n900 will gain from that as well. |
| 21:22.03 | ymartin59 | I agree... I would invest again in my first dream... port dalvik, now ART to standard Linux kernel and GNU stack ! |
| 21:22.40 | ymartin59 | It has been tried by Ubuntu... maybe ART would be easier to port. |
| 21:22.48 | freemangordon | Pali: ask merlin1991 for u-boot-tools promotion please, he is the repo maintainer, I don;t want to abuse my admin powers |
| 21:23.17 | freemangordon | Pali: strictly speaking, that package is not ready to be promoted to extras |
| 21:23.45 | Pali | merlin1991, can you promote that u-boot package to extras? âââ |
| 21:25.10 | ymartin59 | why on earch ARM specs are not public ? |
| 21:25.41 | buZz | which ARM specs arent public? |
| 21:25.50 | freemangordon | ymartin59: they should be |
| 21:26.13 | freemangordon | ymartin59: https://www.arm.com/products/processors/cortex-a/cortex-a8.php |
| 21:26.33 | freemangordon | https://developer.arm.com/products/processors/cortex-a/cortex-a8 |
| 21:26.57 | freemangordon | everything is there |
| 21:27.00 | buZz | maybe she's talking about something specific? |
| 21:27.08 | ymartin59 | it asks me for account registration |
| 21:27.12 | freemangordon | where? |
| 21:27.20 | freemangordon | ymartin59: https://developer.arm.com/docs/ddi0344/k/1-introduction |
| 21:28.21 | ymartin59 | OK many thanks for that direct links... |
| 21:29.24 | freemangordon | hmm, well, I just clicked on the relevant links on ARM website |
| 21:29.33 | freemangordon | I don't have those bookmarked |
| 21:30.09 | freemangordon | ymartin59: but, if you have some specific question, better ask than bury in the docs. They are endless |
| 21:30.17 | ymartin59 | probably I should have looked for "cortex-a8" instead of "arm" alone |
| 21:30.24 | freemangordon | yeah |
| 21:30.41 | ymartin59 | I have always loved endless readings |
| 21:30.58 | ymartin59 | and I have probably too much questions |
| 21:30.59 | freemangordon | seems you have endless free time then :) |
| 21:33.48 | ymartin59 | I learned other assembly languages (6809, z80, 680x0, pentium and HP Saturn) and really ARM lacks in my culture |
| 21:34.19 | freemangordon | I started to like it more than x86 ASM :) |
| 21:34.54 | ymartin59 | for sure x86 is just a pile of dusts |
| 21:36.00 | ymartin59 | bye. see you soon |
| 21:44.47 | sicelo | 23:16 < freemangordon> DocScrutinizer05: me, personally, for example - I prefer to spent my time on porting h-d to gtk3 and allwinner, that to spend it trying to kep stuff which will die as soon as the last n900 dies. which will be not that far from now <<-- not too surprised. i been meaning to ask actually for the last few days |
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| 22:31.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | this simply means: don't use maemo-thumb, it's not going to get any more maintenance |
| 22:32.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | I tried for quite some time now to come up with any other interpretation |
| 22:34.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw not like we discussed this maemo extras thumb repo thing the first time today |
| 23:03.15 | Wizzup | has all his n900s on thumb |
| 23:13.42 | Wizzup | Post rejected. As a new member, you are only allowed to post a minimum number of links in your post. Hit the back button on your web browser and edit your post. Thanks. |
| 23:13.45 | Wizzup | eh. |
| 23:13.50 | Wizzup | joys of using a new account |
| 23:22.54 | Wizzup | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1520074#post1520074 |
| 23:27.54 | Maxdamantus | are the thumb issues present in mainline kernels? |
| 23:36.16 | *** join/#maemo jon_y (~enforcer@2001:e68:4074:7e1e:4d4e:9855:141f:2ab8) |
| 23:39.47 | *** join/#maemo fishbulb (~fishbulb@unaffiliated/fishbulb) |
| 23:43.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | Wizzup: *new* account?? what the heck...? |
| 23:43.53 | Wizzup | DocScrutinizer05: I couldn't figure out what address I used for my old one |
| 23:44.09 | Wizzup | I had a username and password written in my password files, but they didn't work |
| 23:44.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | ugh, ask maintainer! |
| 23:44.16 | Wizzup | So I gave up and didn't want to postpone writing the post |
| 23:44.23 | Wizzup | Yeah, I will, but it's not top priority atm :) |
| 23:44.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) |
| 23:44.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | kudos for post (only read first 2 lines so far) |
| 23:45.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | wouldn't that thread rather belong to http://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=58 ? |
| 23:45.55 | Wizzup | I promised to write it some time ago, and there's still a lot to do, but it's a good start, I hope |
| 23:46.19 | Wizzup | DocScrutinizer05: could be, but in the end it may also run on things other than the neo900 |
| 23:46.36 | Wizzup | and right now it's kind of hard to test on the neo900 :) so we use allwinner tablets or n900 or other |
| 23:46.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | NeoFremantle is not about Neo900 |
| 23:46.41 | Wizzup | ah, sorry. |
| 23:46.47 | Wizzup | Yes, then probably that may be a better place. |
| 23:47.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry I can't move threads *into* 'my' subfora |
| 23:48.37 | Wizzup | I need to get some sleep, let's see if we can get it moved tomorrow or so (some redirect for a bit would be nice) |
| 23:49.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | nope you can't, only your own posts |
| 23:49.36 | Wizzup | yeah, I meant asking someone |
| 23:49.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | redirect is always implied |
| 23:49.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | automatically |
| 23:50.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | for forum admins it's a matter of literally 3 clicks to move a thread around |
| 23:50.44 | Wizzup | ack |
| 23:50.49 | Wizzup | I need to get some sleep first :-) |
| 23:50.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | you may *absue' the 'report post' feature |
| 23:51.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | "please move this thread to http://talk.maemo.org/forumdisplay.php?f=58" - done |
| 23:51.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) |
| 23:52.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | will automatically show up on the task list of those who are in charge |
| 23:53.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | oooh, maybe you as a 'new user' would not have the "report post" button enabled? |
| 23:53.17 | *** join/#maemo Gadgetoid (~Gadgetoid@ip-78-109-177-200.ask4internet.com) |
| 23:54.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | if there's no such button uper right of every post, I can do that on your behalf |
| 23:54.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | only will do so when I got sth to quote with a clear request to do so |
| 23:55.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | otherwise I'd receive bashing for egoistic motivations for that |
| 23:55.48 | Wizzup | I'll try to do it tomorrow. |
| 23:55.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | np, just offering to help |
| 23:56.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | repost the line above and I'll copy it to the requester ;-) |