IRC log for #maemo on 20161204

00:08.39*** join/#maemo cyphase (~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase)
00:09.13*** join/#maemo Maxdamantus (~Maxdamant@unaffiliated/maxdamantus)
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01:16.51*** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | "firmware" see ~tabletsdev ~combined ~emmc ~flasher sdk: ~sb | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet
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02:30.35DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: what are the chances you set up OBS on a server where you get sufficient permissions and help by sysop, and what are the resource requirements?
02:42.26DocScrutinizer05L29Ah: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=21182
02:42.31DocScrutinizer05starting point
02:50.27DocScrutinizer05TL;DR: you need a audio policy that enables MICBIAS, then you need a sort of daemon (prolly dbus scripting) that triggers whatever action you want, on the event "holdbutton pressed"
03:07.42DocScrutinizer05arrrgh, maemo server backup time, lags like mad
03:09.40DocScrutinizer05LOL >>The server is too busy at the moment. Please try again later.<<
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04:21.02DocScrutinizer05http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=500662
04:30.10DocScrutinizer05http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=593405
04:36.02DocScrutinizer05http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=593592
04:38.33DocScrutinizer05and here to the roots: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=659580
04:43.40DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/view/headset-control/
05:46.29*** join/#maemo at1as (~at1as@kurios.r4780y.com)
05:55.53*** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer05 (~saturn@openmoko/engineers/joerg)
07:56.59*** join/#maemo chainsawbike (~chainsawb@unaffiliated/chainsawbike)
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08:53.53jonwilhi
09:08.04*** join/#maemo ymartin1040 (~user@ANancy-158-1-41-10.w92-130.abo.wanadoo.fr)
09:09.34ymartin1040Hello. It seems to me that targets FREMANTLE_ARMEL_GCC472 and FREMANTLE_ARMEL are not "aligned"... for instance I have not found debhelper7 package
09:12.16ymartin1040I tried to build it from sources but then: maemo-optify: Command not found
09:15.59DocScrutinizer05interesting
09:16.22bencohdo we have debhelper7 in FREMANTLE_ARMEL?
09:17.20DocScrutinizer05I guess the real issue is "maemo-optify: Command not found"
09:18.01bencohthis one just mean you should add maemo-optify to builddeps and install it :)
09:18.04bencoh+s
09:18.25DocScrutinizer05~optification
09:18.26infobotoptification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR,  http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3"
09:18.29DocScrutinizer05;-)
09:19.22DocScrutinizer05no idea here about that whole autobuilder stuff
09:19.30DocScrutinizer05neither about scratchbox
09:19.44DocScrutinizer05neither about debian packaging
09:24.30DocScrutinizer05~pkg
09:24.30infobotwell, pkg is http://maemo.org/packages/
09:24.41ymartin1040I forgot to configure "extras-*" repositories in GCC472 target...
09:24.54DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/search/?org_maemo_packages_search%5B1%5D%5Bproperty%5D=name&org_maemo_packages_search%5B1%5D%5Bconstraint%5D=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search%5B1%5D%5Bvalue%5D=debhelper&org_maemo_packages_search%5B2%5D%5Bproperty%5D=title&org_maemo_packages_search%5B2%5D%5Bconstraint%5D=LIKE&org_maemo_packages_search%5B2%5D%5Bvalue%5D=same
09:25.23DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/view/debhelper7/
09:25.50DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_extras_free_armel/debhelper7/7.4.11-maemo6/
09:27.14DocScrutinizer05hey, niiice: http://maemo.org/packages/repository/
09:27.27ymartin1040DocScrutinizer05: thank you. I do not install debhelper7 because it conflicts with debhelper (upgraded to 7.0.15-maemo2)
09:30.48DocScrutinizer05LOL  http://maemo.org/packages/view/A/
09:31.16bencoh:]
09:32.59DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/view/Application/
09:33.58KotCzarnytry http://maemo.org/packages/view/o/
09:34.05DocScrutinizer05lots of goodies at http://maemo.org/packages/repository/list/fremantle_root_pr1-2_armel/
09:36.31KotCzarnywho was asking about eink phone? http://www.cnx-software.com/2016/12/04/hisense-a2-android-smartphone-coming-soon-with-amoled-and-e-ink-displays/
09:37.59bencohit really looks great apart from the snapdragon430 :/
09:38.05DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/view/and/
09:38.37KotCzarnyyeah. but good thing eink in more mobile format is catching up
09:38.45bencohyeah
09:39.08DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/view/Architecture:/
09:39.10bencohwell the n9 had quite a killer feature as well with its amoled
09:39.26KotCzarnybut os sucked, didnt it?
09:39.55bencohn9 os? at least the UX seemed kinda great (as a phone, not commparable to n900)
09:40.07KotCzarnydev wise
09:40.08bencoh(n900 UX sucks a bit to be honest ;p)
09:40.16DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/view/Conffiles:/
09:40.37DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/view/Conflicts:/
09:41.06DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/view/Depends:/
09:41.07jonwilI still think the N900 has the best keyboard of any mobile device ever made.
09:41.20DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/view/Description:/
09:41.22KotCzarnynokia 5510 had better kb
09:41.51DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/view/Enables/
09:42.19DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/view/Exempi/
09:42.52DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/view/Git-Id:/
09:43.58DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/view/Installed-Size:/
09:44.32DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/view/Language/
09:46.57DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/view/Maintainer:/
09:49.37*** join/#maemo handaxe (~chatter@c83-248-25-46.bredband.comhem.se)
09:51.22DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/view/prototype/
09:51.51DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/view/Provides:/
09:52.10DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/view/Replaces:/
09:52.54DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/view/Section:/
09:53.37DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/view/Source:/
09:53.40DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/view/specification./
09:53.51DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/view/Status:/
09:54.10DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/view/This/  ;-P
09:54.26DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/view/to/
09:54.36bencohseriously ....
09:55.04KotCzarnythis is one package probably
09:55.21KotCzarnyall dates are the same
09:58.55DocScrutinizer05CBA to log in and clean out that crap, particularly since - thanks midgard - the fallout of the cure is prolly much worse than the problem
10:00.53DocScrutinizer05Exempi sounds specific
10:03.05DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_root_pr1-2_armel/Exempi/is/
10:04.13DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_root_pr1-2_armel/A/library/
10:04.49DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/package_instance/view/fremantle_root_pr1-2_armel/to/ensure/
10:07.52DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/view/libexempi3/  ;-D
10:11.30DocScrutinizer05>>No results found for "Exempi is a library to ensure".<< :-/
10:19.38DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: jonwil: https://git.merproject.org/mer-core/telepathy-ring
10:20.35jonwilwhats special about that vs the MeeGo implementation?
10:21.47DocScrutinizer05nothing I guess
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10:21.53DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# cat /var/lib/telepathy-ring/memlock
10:21.54DocScrutinizer0532M
10:22.12DocScrutinizer05it just looks like a convenient level for interfacing to new modems
10:23.36DocScrutinizer05https://telepathy.freedesktop.org/doc/telepathy-glib/
10:28.50DocScrutinizer05https://blogs.gnome.org/wjjt/2010/07/15/sending-smses-with-empathy-and-telepathy-ring/
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10:33.46DocScrutinizer05>>The version used on the N900 talks to a proprietary daemon to drive the cellular hardware<< but we don't have such proprietary hardware and thus don't need any proprietary driver, when we use modems that talk AT
10:35.34freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: I can't take yet another task, thus I am trying to find who is going to do it for me
10:36.06bencohwhy would "we" need OBS?
10:36.34freemangordonbencoh: because it makes no sense to build the packages by hand every tim
10:37.22bencohright but ... don't we already have autobuilder?
10:37.38freemangordonbencoh: which is based on scratchbox
10:38.05freemangordonand h-d port has nothing in common with SB
10:38.11bencohhmm
10:38.37bencohwhat do you mean by "nothing in common"?
10:39.06bencoharen't you guys trying to bringup a hildon environment on a modern debian/debian-like?
10:39.09freemangordonh-d is build natively in a distro by your choice
10:39.14bencohsure
10:39.18freemangordonyes, and this is unrealted to SB
10:39.28freemangordon*unrelated
10:39.35bencohright, but it doesn't conflict with SB either
10:39.53bencohI mean, one could bringup a SB/autobuilder env for modern debians
10:40.10DocScrutinizer05sorry for the noob question, but... are you aware that Suse offers a generic OBS service?
10:40.51DocScrutinizer05it seems to 'just work'
10:41.02DocScrutinizer05and free to everybody
10:41.04bencohI just don't really see the point of "moving" to OBS since the rest of the maemo community/projects are "stuck" on "debian"
10:41.24bencohI could be totally wrong
10:41.39DocScrutinizer05OBS is orthogonal to RPM/DEB
10:41.45DocScrutinizer05aiui
10:42.37freemangordonI think the same
10:43.02bencohI kinda remember it was supposed to be "open"/distro-agnostic
10:43.07DocScrutinizer05https://build.opensuse.org/
10:43.08bencohI'm not sure it eventually was
10:43.18freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: Yes, I am aware, but I really want to see some participation from the "community", be it maemo or devuan
10:43.21bencohas for rpm/deb, sure, you can build .deb packages
10:43.47DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: ooh sure, good point
10:44.05freemangordonhowever /me is going to find something for lunch, bbl
10:44.26DocScrutinizer05https://build.opensuse.org/monitor
10:48.11bencohthis might still work actually https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Build_Service_Debian_builds
10:49.49freemangordonbencoh: this is not the point, what we're trying to achieve is not some pet project
10:50.24bencohthen what are you trying to do? have hildon included in devuan?
10:50.37DocScrutinizer05hmm I'm not all sure suse OBS actually builds (or can build) for other "distros" too
10:50.42freemangordonbencoh: yes
10:50.55DocScrutinizer05ooh bencoh beat me to it
10:51.07bencohDocScrutinizer05: see my point now? ;p
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10:51.39DocScrutinizer05err nope
10:51.47bencoh12:50 < DocScrutinizer05> hmm I'm not all sure suse OBS actually builds (or can build) for other "distros" too
10:51.58DocScrutinizer05[2016-12-04 Sun 11:48:11] <bencoh> this might still work actually https://en.opensuse.org/openSUSE:Build_Service_Debian_builds
10:52.17bencohDocScrutinizer05: this document is quite all, I dunno if it's still supposed to work
10:52.22bencohand if it does what you want
10:52.26bencohs/all/old/
10:52.31bencoh(wtf brain?!)
10:53.21DocScrutinizer05why would OBS disable/discard that feature?
10:55.26DocScrutinizer05anyway, this is academic since fmg has a point in asking devuan for support and a builder home
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11:00.13*** join/#maemo geaaru (~geaaru@host171-220-dynamic.17-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it)
11:02.13WizzupI don't know how hard it is to set up an OBS service, hm
11:02.22*** join/#maemo Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali)
11:02.25Wizzupparazyd: around?
11:05.29Wizzupfreemangordon: would you like the builds to be for arm and intel? I guess so
11:05.45DocScrutinizer05when fmg wants devuan to host this, then he will want to use what devuan has. No idea if that's OBS or something else
11:05.47Wizzupp.s. https://www.collabora.com/news-and-blog/blog/2016/10/24/open-build-service-in-debian/
11:05.57WizzupDocScrutinizer05: yes, that is why I poked parazyd
11:06.16WizzupI have some (semi) fast arm machines that we can use for building
11:06.24DocScrutinizer05poke how900 ;-) aka hellekin
11:07.08*** join/#maemo cyphase (~cyphase@unaffiliated/cyphase)
11:08.40DocScrutinizer05devuan uses jenkins
11:08.47DocScrutinizer05whatever that is
11:09.19DocScrutinizer05https://git.devuan.org/devuan-infrastructure
11:09.42Wizzupjenkins is a CI system
11:10.02WizzupThat seems mostly for the server architecture, not necessarily for builds, but we'll see
11:11.39Palihi! Do you know if it is possible on Maemo to check which GSM encryption is in used? (e.g. to verify that A5/0 or A5/2 is not used)
11:12.14Paliold Nokia phone show some open lock icon on display when A5/0 or A5/2 was chosen
11:13.23*** join/#maemo Venemo (~venemo@fedora/Venemo)
11:14.55DocScrutinizer05NetMon has zilch
11:15.24DocScrutinizer05no idea if that's since BB5-ISI doesn't support it or NetMon simply doesn't show it
11:16.01jonwilI use Jenkins on another unrelated project and its great for producing builds in that case (although in that case what we produce are just zip files, not full package files)
11:16.28DocScrutinizer05Pali: ^^^ + http://maemo.org/packages/view/netmon/
11:16.35PaliI have netmon installed
11:16.49Paliand do not see cipher in it
11:17.04Palijonwil: do you have idea?
11:17.27jonwilI have no idea about encryption on the N900
11:20.25Paliyou collected lot of dbus files around csd/sscd/... so I though you could know something..
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11:20.56jonwilnope, I dont know of any things related to encryption
11:21.03jonwilno interfaces for it
11:21.22jonwilNo references to it in any of the ISI headers I have either
11:26.25DocScrutinizer05dbus_object = bus.get_object('com.nokia.phone.net', '/com/nokia/phone/net', introspect=False)
11:26.26DocScrutinizer05self.cellinfo = dbus.Interface(dbus_object, 'Phone.Net')
11:26.36DocScrutinizer05def signal_strength(self):
11:26.37DocScrutinizer05return self.cellinfo.get_signal_strength()
11:26.49DocScrutinizer05def selected_radio_rechnology(self):
11:26.50DocScrutinizer05return self.cellinfo.get_selected_radio_access_technology()
11:27.48DocScrutinizer05you might be lucky to find something in /com/nokia/phone/*/*
11:29.33DocScrutinizer05(^^^ from cellinfo.py in NetMon)
11:30.57DocScrutinizer05note that NetMon is terribly segfaulty (or whatever it does when it dies)
11:33.53jonwilI know all the dbus interfaces related to the cellular modem (thanks to dbus introspection etc) although I dont know what they all do
11:34.05jonwiland none of them look like they would relate to encryption.
11:34.19DocScrutinizer05encryption has no interface
11:34.23jonwilor rather to GSM encryption
11:34.26DocScrutinizer05it's a 2char result
11:34.42DocScrutinizer05or 4char
11:34.43jonwilno interface or signals or calls
11:35.08jonwilnothing in com.nokia.* for cellmo that might be related to GSM crypto at all
11:35.34DocScrutinizer05might look like get_BCI_data
11:35.38DocScrutinizer05or whatever
11:36.05DocScrutinizer05again, crypto is no part of GSM interface
11:36.17DocScrutinizer05it's a property of the connection
11:36.35jonwilI know what GSM crypto is
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11:37.00jonwilmy point is that there is nothing in the dbus stuff related to any of the cellular daemons that in any way could be related to GSM crypto
11:37.45DocScrutinizer05again, "crypto" is not even a terminus used in GSM when querying the connection properties
11:38.08jonwilnothing for BCI either
11:38.33DocScrutinizer05well, that's no surprise since that's zhe Base Control Channel iirc
11:40.01jonwilI doubt Nokia would have any reason to expose any of that information from the cellular services daemon to userspace.
11:40.12jonwilI mean from the cellular radio
11:40.12DocScrutinizer05it might come embedded into whatever name, like *monitor*" or "*status*" or "*connection*" whatever
11:40.58DocScrutinizer05what reason would Nokia have to expose the CellID? yet it's shown in NetMon
11:41.50DocScrutinizer05but yeah, it's very likely that this isn't implemented in the ISI lib
11:42.56jonwilOther phones that expose this stuff (e.g. various Android devices) only seem to expose it via various undocumented low-level debugging interfaces that were clearly not intended for public consumption
11:43.13jonwiland the N900 has none of that kind of stuff (Nokia isn't stupid enough to leave it in there)
11:43.18DocScrutinizer05hmmm, not exactly
11:44.33DocScrutinizer05https://android.googlesource.com/kernel/msm/+/f632ea92329bc9197daf02ea4baceddceb89a6be/drivers/char/diag/Kconfig#10
11:45.15DocScrutinizer05DIAG isn't a forgotten stub
11:45.48DocScrutinizer05neither "various undocumented low-level debugging interfaces"
11:46.28jonwilmaybe I am thinking of another different interface
11:46.56DocScrutinizer05dunno, anyway DIAG is what snoopsnitch uses
11:47.01jonwilhmmm ok
11:47.30DocScrutinizer05and yes it's not available for *all* possible modems that android supports
11:48.20jonwilUnless I miss-read something, diag isn't documented (at least in terms of what info you get and how you get it). Or so says some post I read related to snoopsnitch
11:48.54DocScrutinizer05possible
11:49.03jonwilthe SS guys had to reverse engineer it all I believe
11:49.17jonwilin any case the N900 has no such interfaces
11:49.53jonwilunless there is something in the cellular modem that is not documented anywhere in the isi headers I have
11:50.27DocScrutinizer05you can bet there is a lot
11:51.28DocScrutinizer05BUT... I haven't heard of monitor mode in any other (nokia) BB5 based phones either
11:51.47DocScrutinizer05~nobbi
11:51.50DocScrutinizer05meh!
11:52.24DocScrutinizer05http://nobbi.com/
11:53.01DocScrutinizer05~nobbi is http://nobbi.com/monitor/indexen.html
11:53.01infobotokay, DocScrutinizer05
11:54.27DocScrutinizer05http://nobbi.com/monitor/nokwen.html  *ancient* but...
11:57.18DocScrutinizer05~nobbi is also http://nobbi.com/download/nmmanual.pdf
11:57.18infobotDocScrutinizer05: okay
11:58.55DocScrutinizer05http://wstaw.org/m/2016/12/04/plasma-desktopMw2244.png
12:01.21DocScrutinizer05Used Information Sources :
12:01.22DocScrutinizer05[ 1 ] Netmonitor description (RD843.txt) from Nokia Mobile Phones
12:01.24DocScrutinizer05[ 2 ] Marcin Wiaceks homepage (http://marcin-wiacek.topnet.pl/)
12:01.25DocScrutinizer05[ 3 ] Researches from Nobbi & various other people
12:04.41DocScrutinizer05http://www.electronics-lab.info/Files/Others/netmonitor.pdf
12:08.52sicelosorry to interrupt a productive discussion ..
12:09.00siceloam i the only one getting this spam?
12:09.01sicelo09:07 <Chick> THIS IRC HAS      MOVED      TO     irc.gangste.rs     #tclmafia                    $t:/D\vM
12:09.04sicelo09:08 <Chick> THIS      IRC      HAS       MOVED        TO irc.gangste.rs    #tclmafia              PU4cK1$o~RLKvb
12:09.21KotCzarnymantion to freenode staff
12:09.33KotCzarny*mention
12:09.46sicelomeaning you're not getting it yourself for example?
12:09.50KotCzarnynope
12:09.57sicelothanks
12:10.03KotCzarnyprobably you are on some channel that sucked your nick
12:11.14sicelo<PROTECTED>
12:11.27DocScrutinizer05sicelo: please don't usually repost spam. In #freenode you might even get banned for that
12:11.41KotCzarnysicelo, but that would also bblock legitimate prvs
12:12.00sicelowell it seems to be the only solution they recommed for now
12:12.16DocScrutinizer05it is the only solution
12:12.40DocScrutinizer05and no, I've not seen that yet
12:12.44KotCzarnyyou can also setup your client's /ignore list
12:13.02KotCzarnyassuming its from predictable address
12:13.36sicelonope .. multiple addresses, idents, and nicks
12:13.41DocScrutinizer05sure
12:13.53DocScrutinizer05that's why +R is the only solution
12:16.04bencohsicelo: /ignore -regex ?
12:16.36DocScrutinizer05bencoh: my client doesn't seem to support that
12:16.59bencohDocScrutinizer05: no offense, but I've never thought you were using a good client anyway ;)
12:17.11DocScrutinizer05I'm fully aware
12:17.17bencoh:)
12:17.41sicelobencoh: it doesn't only send the previous text .. has other random stuff.
12:17.54sicelowill keep the +R .. :)
12:18.05sicelomaybe revert after a few days
12:18.10bencoh:)
12:19.49DocScrutinizer05if you wanna do sth about it, join a DDoS attack to the URL of that other irc network
12:21.31DocScrutinizer05irc-gangsters really now?
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12:44.43DocScrutinizer05bencoh: see PM
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16:17.03Android_808freemangordon: you had some questions re: tiny?
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16:20.14freemangordonAndroid_808: hi!
16:20.26freemangordonwell, as a start -0 any idea what it does?
16:20.39freemangordons-0/-/
16:21.22Android_808what package?
16:21.46freemangordonnot a package, but src/tiny in hildon-desktop
16:22.48freemangordonTidyActor etc
16:23.14Android_808haven't got source hand. do you mean src/tidy?
16:23.20freemangordonyes
16:23.30freemangordonyeah, sorry, typo
16:24.35Android_808tidy is the Clutter based UI toolkit.  In Cordia-based versions it was replaced by libmx
16:25.16freemangordonhmm, what to use to replace it then?
16:25.43Android_808We have a choice.  We can either:
16:26.03Android_8081) replace tidy with mx as done previously
16:27.03Android_8082) take a look at libchamplain and use it to update tidy to clutter 1.x
16:27.22Android_808https://github.com/GNOME/libchamplain
16:28.01Android_8083) come up with something else.
16:28.15MoeIcenowyI think there's a 4), which is considered mad
16:28.20MoeIcenowyuse GNOME Shell's toolkit
16:28.31Android_808I did look at that :p
16:28.40MoeIcenowyhttps://github.com/GNOME/gnome-shell/tree/master/src/st
16:29.01freemangordonok, I have no say here, as I have NFC fhat this thing does
16:29.08freemangordon*what
16:29.13Android_808St requires mutter IIRC
16:29.58freemangordondo we lose something if we choose 1)?
16:30.06Android_808It is responsible for drawing the desktop components.  The menu, task switcher button and the window bars.
16:30.37MoeIcenowyIs the menu drawed by Hildon, not the application?
16:31.04Android_808tidy_blur_whatever_its_called() isn't implemented in mx.
16:31.17MoeIcenowy(I know nothing to the Hildon architecture
16:31.23Android_80812 mins battery :(
16:31.35MoeIcenowywhat?
16:31.43Android_808Laptop dying
16:31.48freemangordonAndroid_808: well, I think I have some idea what is going on
16:32.24freemangordonwill look at that champlain thingie
16:32.35freemangordonthanks
16:32.58Android_808The window menus use a special _NET_WM_* atom to tell matchbox what they are.  From there it knows how to handle them
16:33.35Android_808champlain did go to mx breifly and then switched back to tidy, then created there own version of it.
16:34.38Android_808Theres a few classes they've merged together so it isn't 100% the same.  Plus they have clutter fixes.
16:35.06MoeIcenowyAnd it seems that the status-menu is currently broken?
16:36.29freemangordonI can't see any reference to tidy though
16:36.37Android_808it worked in my cordia based version, but it is lacking applets.  Having started to install the hildon init components it messed up dbus so my test applet, profiles, stopped working
16:37.27freemangordonseems it was removed in 0-10
16:38.14MoeIcenowylibchamplain seems to be not a professional toolkit...
16:38.21MoeIcenowyit's aimed on map drawing
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16:39.52Android_808battery died.
16:40.07freemangordonyeah
16:40.24MoeIcenowyI suggest a Thinkpad X ;-)
16:40.31KotCzarny:)
16:41.18Android_808anyway, in champlain repo is a folder called champlain. originally that was a copy of tidy but everything is now renamed as they've essentially forked it
16:41.30freemangordonyeah
16:42.00freemangordonone thing though - it seems maemo clutter uses fixed point arithmetics
16:42.18freemangordonI wonder what will be the performance fit going to float
16:42.23freemangordon*hit
16:43.12freemangordonso, I can try to migrate maemo tidy to clutter 1.
16:43.13MoeIcenowymaybe maemo clutter considered the old OMAP2 devices
16:43.18freemangordonsure
16:43.32MoeIcenowybut on our ARMv7+ devices we have VFPv3/4 and NEON
16:43.51KotCzarnyn900 has them too
16:43.52MoeIcenowysomething to mention: add INSTALL file to .gitignore
16:43.53freemangordonhaving NEON is not exactly the same as using it ;)
16:44.07MoeIcenowyas it's shipped with automake
16:44.13MoeIcenowyand will be changed by autoreconf
16:44.34freemangordonyep, I saw I pushed some INSTALL file yesterday :)
16:45.10Android_808if its a real issue, can we feasibly depend on a clutter_maemo package thats fixed. Or you could go full Mutter and include a custom clutter in h-d source
16:46.02MoeIcenowymaybe...
16:46.31freemangordonAndroid_808: lets first try to migrate to clutter 1.0, I don;t see many FxP arithmetics done in tidy
16:47.30MoeIcenowyand with updating to clutter 1.0 we can share the advances by GNOME
16:48.19Android_808just beware that even gnome code still seems to use deprecated clutter apis.  finding up to date examples of animation/effects is like looking for a needle in a haystack.
16:48.40MoeIcenowyor we may make hildon-desktop a drop-in replacement of gnome-shell?
16:48.44freemangordonI think I actually find
16:48.57MoeIcenowyand then hildonize generic gtk+-3?
16:49.13freemangordonbut it is still to be tested ofc, once I have everything compiled
16:49.54MoeIcenowyand how to properly build a mce?
16:51.10freemangordonpull the source :)
16:51.33MoeIcenowyfrom where?
16:51.34freemangordonwhat problems do you have with it?
16:51.37freemangordonaah
16:51.49MoeIcenowyI tried Android_808's mce
16:52.03MoeIcenowyand I faulted with missing libngf0
16:52.04freemangordonhere https://github.com/fremantle-gtk3/mce
16:52.05Android_808MoeIcenowy: i do eventually want to try to replace some components to slim down hildon.
16:52.31Android_808yeah, thats one's mer based from earlier effort
16:52.56MoeIcenowyIn fact, what I want is to replace these by gnome-settings-daemon
16:52.56freemangordonMoeIcenowy: but prepare that you'll have to build a pile of dependencies as well
16:53.24MoeIcenowyand makes hildon really gnome-mobile again
16:53.33MoeIcenowyoh this guy has more dependencies :-(
16:53.47freemangordontimes more
16:54.07freemangordonbut all of the needed stuff is on https://github.com/fremantle-gtk3
16:54.19MoeIcenowyare they all gtk3-ized?
16:54.22freemangordonyes
16:54.40MoeIcenowyoh you did so much ;-)
16:54.45freemangordonwell, there might be problems, but in general they should at least compile
16:56.03MoeIcenowywhat at all is mce...
16:56.27Android_808while i remember. h-d should depend on upstart-dev (uses dh_ scrip).  I haven't worked out last bit of patch for upstart-dev yet to rename installed file from filename to filename.conf.
16:56.59MoeIcenowyno problem as I'm totally not on debian ;-)
16:57.10freemangordonAndroid_808: anyway I am using your upstart-dev, so whatever is fixed will be pulled
16:57.31freemangordonMoeIcenowy: mission control entity iirc
16:57.39freemangordonor somesuch
16:57.59MoeIcenowyfreemangordon: ?
16:58.14freemangordonmce
16:58.28freemangordon(18,56,01) MoeIcenowy: what at all is mce...
16:58.35MoeIcenowyok it's a mysterious
16:58.39MoeIcenowymysterious name
16:59.02freemangordonnbo, this is how nokia used to name their daemons, iiuc
16:59.03Android_808anyway, got to drive home. i'll check irc logs later
16:59.11freemangordonok, bye
16:59.47MoeIcenowymce, dsme... all seems advanced but difficult to understand
17:00.00MoeIcenowyI can only understand "ngf" is "non-graphical feedback"
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17:00.34freemangordondsme is Device State Management Entity afaik
17:00.50KotCzarnynokia technology mostly?
17:01.07MoeIcenowymaybe killing mce is a good choice ;-)
17:01.12freemangordonno
17:02.53bencohwhy would you kill it?
17:03.11bencoh(at least it's opensource :)
17:03.15freemangordonbecause of the weird name :p
17:03.20bencohhaha
17:08.05MoeIcenowyI think most things in MCE do have fd.o replacements...
17:51.50MoeIcenowyGNOME-Shell has also historically used tidy...
18:07.11MoeIcenowyThe "ClutterFixed" issue seems so easy to solve that it only needs a sed
18:09.39MoeIcenowyoh not so easy...
18:09.55freemangordonnot easy at all
18:10.09freemangordonMoeIcenowy: any experience with cogl/clutter?
18:10.20MoeIcenowynope
18:10.36MoeIcenowyonly build experiences ;-)
18:11.08freemangordonanyone? I am trying to replace  cogl_blend_func with clutter 1.0 equivalent. I guess it is some blend string, but can;t find an example.
18:13.10freemangordonmaybe cogl_pipeline_set_blend
18:15.16MoeIcenowyI checkout two GNOME projects which used to use tidy
18:15.22MoeIcenowygnome-shell and libchamplain
18:15.29MoeIcenowythey all didn't have the file before...
18:26.46MoeIcenowyAs the git history of libchamplain said, mx is the successor of tidy
18:27.39MoeIcenowyReplace the outdated tidy library with its successor - mx. This will help us to use fixes and updates from the mainline. -- git commit dcd152746c36e1be8141cb30231d406b280bae63
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19:55.07parazydWizzup: hey. sorry i tend to be offline mostly on weekends
19:55.15parazydWizzup: what is it you needed?
19:59.16Wizzupparazyd: yo!
19:59.56Wizzupparazyd: we were wondering if you can provide some info on how you build packages for devuan, and if we could either use your (Devuan) buils system/help, or if you could tell us how to set up our own
20:00.15parazydyeah, they are built on the gitlab afaik
20:00.22Wizzupby what service, and how, automatically?
20:00.26Wizzup(got a page on it)
20:00.30WizzupWe saw some jenkins service
20:00.39parazydyes jenkins builds all of it
20:00.50parazydyou'd be best to ping nextime at #devuan to find out more
20:01.17parazydjenkins is at https://ci.devuan.org fwiw
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20:24.43Wizzupparazyd: I see
20:24.59parazydnextime is your best bet
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20:51.26how900indeed Wizzup.  I see no problem with hosting Maemo packages and adding a overlay for it in amprolla. but the docs are missing, so nextime is your man,
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21:06.08Android_808freemangordon: pushed a few more commits for hildon.
21:27.38Wizzuphow900: thanks, I'll see if I can find him and figure out how to proceed
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21:31.40MoeIcenowyAndroid_808: are you re-porting hildon?
21:33.39Android_808yeah, the previous version was based off the Cordia fork and has a lot of components removed.  I'm going through the CSSU version, merging my changes where possible and porting the rest as I go
21:37.57DocScrutinizer05MoeIcenowy: for much fund, do:  root \n killall mce; sleep 2; killall mce; sleep 2; killall mce; sleep 2; killall mce;
21:38.05DocScrutinizer05s/fund/fun
21:38.09DocScrutinizer05~mce
21:38.10infobotMCE = Machine Check Exception.  Mode Control Entity
21:38.15DocScrutinizer05lol
21:38.25DocScrutinizer05~maemo-mce
21:41.02MoeIcenowyI will try it (escape
21:41.57DocScrutinizer05why is no link to http://wiki.maemo.org/Main_Page on maemo.org, zilch?!
21:43.11DocScrutinizer05~#maemo mce is http://wiki.maemo.org/Free_Maemo#MCE
21:43.11infobotDocScrutinizer05: okay
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21:48.55DocScrutinizer05MoeIcenowy: for more sustainable and elaborate fun `stop mce`
21:50.20CatButtsyou cant
21:50.24CatButtsstop rock and roll
21:54.25MoeIcenowywill reboot rescue this?
22:29.46DocScrutinizer05sure
22:30.02DocScrutinizer05stop mce is rescued by start mce ;-)
22:30.14DocScrutinizer05kill mce will automagically reboot
22:30.37DocScrutinizer05if done twice or 3 times
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