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| 06:13.47 | KotCzarny | totalizator: i think i saw allwinner tablets with eink displays, might be interesting i fyou plan on anything other than android |
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| 08:21.07 | warfare | Great, we're hit by a kernel bug. https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/linux-lts-utopic/+bug/1492146 |
| 08:22.17 | KotCzarny | 3.16 seems old? |
| 08:22.38 | warfare | Apparently this is still present in 4.8.10.. |
| 08:23.32 | warfare | "igb 0000:02:00.1 eth1: Reset adapter" |
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| 08:24.47 | KotCzarny | can you add different network device? |
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| 08:28.56 | warfare | Nope :D |
| 08:29.28 | KotCzarny | damn those crippled proprietary overpriced servers! |
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| 10:18.35 | zGrr | moin :) |
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| 16:29.35 | gionata1 | q |
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| 17:59.59 | warfare | Sorry, more maintenance going on.. |
| 18:03.08 | sicelo | on which resources? |
| 18:13.35 | warfare | *.maemo.org |
| 18:14.18 | warfare | I'll post a detailed writeup to the whole fuckup with maemo.org hardware when it is solved. Please be patient with us, our servers don't seem to love us at the moment. |
| 18:20.50 | sicelo | :) |
| 18:20.56 | sicelo | thanks for the work |
| 18:24.06 | warfare | It's even harder when there are 8kgs of tomcat requiring cuddles on your desk.. |
| 18:25.06 | warfare | I think everything should work now. I'll post a complete post-mortem later. |
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| 19:38.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | I hope you all deactivated TR-069 in your routers |
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| 20:00.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TR-069 what a terribly broken-by-design concept |
| 20:00.56 | L29Ah | what's wrong with tr69? |
| 20:01.11 | L29Ah | is a proud implementer of this xml shit |
| 20:01.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | remote administration without any individual control |
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| 20:01.52 | L29Ah | there's individual control: cpe tells the server its id |
| 20:02.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | HAHA yeah |
| 20:02.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | like phones tell BTS their ID |
| 20:02.18 | L29Ah | what's wrong? |
| 20:02.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | the idea that the server/BTS is trusted |
| 20:02.41 | L29Ah | oh, this thing |
| 20:02.52 | L29Ah | yes, tr069 means the cpe is owned by your isp |
| 20:03.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | or your friendly hacker |
| 20:03.16 | L29Ah | it's not inherently mitm'able |
| 20:03.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | not inherently but *very* prone |
| 20:03.52 | L29Ah | just like any other http |
| 20:04.06 | L29Ah | https, even |
| 20:04.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | just nobody within a sane mind dares to remote-admin stuff at such pathetic authentication level |
| 20:04.31 | L29Ah | it may be configured by dumbasses, i agree |
| 20:05.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | and obviously the implementations are buggy like hell |
| 20:05.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.heise.de/newsticker/meldung/Telekom-Stoerung-BSI-warnt-vor-weltweitem-Hackerangriff-auf-DSL-Modems-3506556.html |
| 20:06.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | 900k pwned devices, in TELEKOM alone |
| 20:06.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | thank you TR-069 |
| 20:06.47 | L29Ah | you're talling it like there are better alternative |
| 20:06.53 | L29Ah | s/are/is a/ |
| 20:07.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | the whole thing is basically useless |
| 20:07.52 | L29Ah | your grandma doesn't know shit about network configuration, what would she do if her isp must change some intricate details of the communication channel? |
| 20:08.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh! |
| 20:08.16 | L29Ah | like the vpn solution they love to use due to the cheapness of dumb ethernet switches |
| 20:08.51 | L29Ah | and i guess dsl stuff has a lot config of it's own, never touched it |
| 20:09.07 | L29Ah | also docsis shit |
| 20:09.32 | L29Ah | not everyone is lucky enough to have ip over ethernet these days |
| 20:15.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | there were DSL routers (and even [USB-]modems) *before* invention of TR-069, and that worked and still works |
| 20:16.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | TR-069 is absolutely optional, just for convenience of the ISP |
| 20:18.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | I deactivate it whenever possible, not only on my devices but also whenever I do service for others |
| 20:20.53 | L29Ah | config files are absolutely optional, just for convenience of the admin |
| 20:21.17 | L29Ah | i disable them whenever possible and write my configuration in the source code |
| 20:27.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | I bet you'd better do that, since *I* am YOUR ADMIN |
| 20:27.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | magically changes L29Ah's IRC client's config files, with immediate effect on the client executable's behavior |
| 20:28.01 | L29Ah | i'm not your grandma :P |
| 20:28.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | you are |
| 20:28.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | neither me nor my clients are the ISP's bitch |
| 20:28.40 | xy2_ | hey DocScrutinizer05 |
| 20:28.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | and honestly nobody should be |
| 20:29.27 | L29Ah | wtf |
| 20:29.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | there's *absolutely zilch* the ISP needs to configure on *any* DSL router |
| 20:29.35 | L29Ah | cpes are no big deal |
| 20:29.59 | L29Ah | you're like OH THIS IRC SERVER WANTS ME TO ANSWER PONG, FUCK YOU I WON'T, I'M NOT AN IRC SERVER'S BITCH |
| 20:30.02 | warfare | DocScrutinizer05: SIP settings. |
| 20:30.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh!! |
| 20:31.01 | L29Ah | also there are isp-owned cpes that sell wifi to other users |
| 20:31.10 | L29Ah | so you can have a cheaper internet access |
| 20:31.40 | L29Ah | and they can have wifi virtually everywhere in a city |
| 20:31.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's exactly the attack vector how "hackers" get my grandma to pay 1000s of bucks for phone calls she never initiated |
| 20:32.37 | L29Ah | people can steal your credit card and buy stuff with it |
| 20:32.43 | L29Ah | let's trash credit cards |
| 20:32.47 | L29Ah | fuck burglars |
| 20:33.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, nobody ever stolen my credit card, and even then they wouldn't have a way to use it since we have PIN for it here |
| 20:33.35 | L29Ah | don't worry, there're skimmers for that |
| 20:33.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, none I'd not notice |
| 20:34.01 | L29Ah | :D |
| 20:34.12 | L29Ah | ppl even modify the internals of atms for that |
| 20:34.17 | L29Ah | so you won't notice it |
| 20:34.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok, POS are immanent threat for skimming but then, I don't care since my CC doesn't get stolen |
| 20:35.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | HAHA here all people can do to ATM is blow then up with gas |
| 20:35.28 | L29Ah | have you erased that magnetic strip on your card? |
| 20:35.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | why would I? even if it's getting copied at a ATM I'm not responsible for the fraud |
| 20:36.13 | L29Ah | same for isp bullshit |
| 20:36.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah sure, you already have fought that battle against your ISP / SIP provider, right? |
| 20:36.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | and won |
| 20:37.59 | L29Ah | ofc not, i'm not your grandma w/ docsis and tr069 |
| 20:38.36 | L29Ah | i leave this pleasure for ppl who find it more fun than computer networking knowledger :P |
| 20:38.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | you won't convince me TR-069 is something useful, great, needed |
| 20:39.08 | L29Ah | i haven't planned to do this |
| 20:39.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | not even my grandma needs that crap |
| 20:39.21 | L29Ah | it's a shitty kludge indeed |
| 20:55.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>The session is always started by the device (CPE)...<< is a first but insufficient step to secure TR-069. And the today's (yesterday's) attack seems to have exploited implementation flaws by connecting to CPE port 7547 from extern |
| 20:56.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | why would anybody run a crappy insecurely implemented and buggy service on their frontend device, when such service doesn't provide *any* benefit to them? |
| 20:57.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | *sometimes* when I feel lazy, I connect a new router to DSL with TRY-069 enabled, to get provisioning automatically so I save me all that typing, but then I *always* disable that service since it's no longer needed |
| 20:58.40 | warfare | The S in IoT stands for security. |
| 20:59.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | I see ;-P |
| 20:59.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | when ISPs would care about their customers' security at all, they'd ship preconfigured DSL routers instead of running a TR-069 infra |
| 21:00.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | but that costs them a non-recurring-expense 5 bucks more per customer |
| 21:00.47 | warfare | You don't want that. Especially not when doing triple-play. |
| 21:01.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | triple-play is a brainfuck anyway in my book |
| 21:03.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | sending digital video over TCP-IP internet over TV cable, go figure!!! |
| 21:04.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | broadcast per definition of the thing and word is a one-to-many transmission, abusing a one-to-one infra for that is a huge idiocy |
| 21:05.39 | warfare | DocScrutinizer05: That's why dtag is doing multicast for iptv. |
| 21:05.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | I know there's stuff like video on demand etc, but then there's also youtube and flickr and whatnot which don't need any triple-play |
| 21:06.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm quite sure they _need_ multicast to pull of that braindamaged stunt |
| 21:07.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | otherwise for 10 million households you'd need 1 million servers and all of them need their own fat backbone |
| 21:08.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | pull off* |
| 21:11.07 | bencoh | multicast actually works only for live streams, btw |
| 21:11.25 | bencoh | you still have the issue for VOD services |
| 21:11.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | ...and tbh I don't know a single friend or customer of mine who actually uses that IPTV stuff |
| 21:11.45 | bencoh | DocScrutinizer05: have a look at the french market :) |
| 21:12.06 | bencoh | pretty much everyone sell so-called-triple-play services nowadays |
| 21:12.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | thus I never felt like any of the routers I service or serviced needs TR-059 |
| 21:13.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | and nobody called me today complaining that their phone, internet, or TV doesn't work anymore :-)) |
| 21:15.46 | L29Ah | if they don't, isps wouldn't have used it |
| 21:15.57 | L29Ah | but in fact they're paying me to implement it for them |
| 21:16.29 | L29Ah | not all of them ofc |
| 21:19.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | DTAG/TELEKOM for a long time offered VDSL (50MB) *only* bundled with IPTV and by redoing their calculations you can see they charge you premium for the IPTV stuff even when you don't want it. So for ISPs it's more been a matter of maximizing their margin than anything else, Customer demand had to be created for the product, and it's still low |
| 21:21.58 | L29Ah | yeah who needs this iptv bullshit when there's youtube and piratebay |
| 21:22.03 | L29Ah | your grandma probably |
| 21:22.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, my grandma still uses radio frequencies to watch TV |
| 21:23.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | meanwhile DVB-T |
| 21:23.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | she never fell for the "awesome new user experience to watch TV in HDTV" |
| 21:24.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | she couldn't even tell the difference ;-) |
| 21:30.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | otherwise she could use https://www.zdf.de/live-tv instead of piratebay |
| 21:31.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | no need for IPTV at all |
| 21:33.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | IPTV is just a way to circumvent net neutrality and offer customers (and providers?) premium bandwidth |
| 21:33.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | "offer" |
| 21:34.10 | L29Ah | net neutrality is a joke anyway |
| 21:34.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | read: force them to use |
| 21:36.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | and of course pay for |
| 22:00.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | warfare: (SIP) basically *almost* same situation. Last time I checked, all telephony providers that now switch to double/triple-play also offer plain old SIP VoIP as alternative method to connect to your telephony account |
| 22:01.34 | warfare | DocScrutinizer05: Sure, but it is easier to "just plug in the white box" than "configure your sip account on $device and configure the necessary portforwardings on your router" |
| 22:03.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | of course, and that's particularly true for 'my granny' |
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