| 00:03.49 | Oksana | Beginning with groundwork, such as debian thingies. Will worry about .c later, using https://github.com/community-ssu/osso-systemui-devlock-dev and whatever can be useful. |
| 00:04.54 | *** join/#maemo Rasiel (~Rasiel@59.63.248.35) |
| 00:05.23 | Rasiel | sorry ping time out |
| 00:06.12 | jonwil | if you dont understand reverse engineering, you probably wont be able to get osso-systmeui-devlock going, I understand what I am doing and I cant make it happen. |
| 00:06.16 | jonwil | But good luck to you anyway :) |
| 00:08.16 | jonwil | As for that list of ideas, ugh, Python. Not going there. |
| 00:08.19 | Oksana | Thank you :-) I will not forget about IDA, but I will take a look at objdump and radare, nevertheless. Some time later, after taking care of debian thingies |
| 00:08.48 | jonwil | if you can make it happen, more power to you :) |
| 00:08.51 | gry | jonwil: I think half of the point is taking python apps and rewriting them in c and hildon |
| 00:08.57 | jonwil | yeah but I dont know python |
| 00:08.59 | jonwil | so I cant do that |
| 00:09.06 | jonwil | Dont know the first thing about korean so I cant do that either |
| 00:09.12 | Oksana | jonwil: I especially like idea of making GTK+Hildon calculator (frontend), to replace current Qt-based calculator. Tiny and not Python at all |
| 00:09.17 | gry | afaik we don't have to read the python, just look at what the app does and write the same logic in another language |
| 00:09.31 | gry | and it's not a reverse engineering task, just a question of hildonizing things |
| 00:09.35 | jonwil | none of those seem like things I care about either |
| 00:09.38 | gry | yes |
| 00:09.44 | gry | one thing at a time |
| 00:09.45 | jonwil | I dont care about mediaplayer things |
| 00:11.23 | Oksana | Hmm, feel free to RE something you care about :-) I just don't know much about innards of GPS and cellular, but would be glad to see either of them REed (even if only partially, one package at a time) |
| 00:12.05 | jonwil | yeah so would I |
| 00:12.10 | jonwil | but I lack the skills to pull that off :) |
| 00:12.40 | jonwil | as for calculator, the stock calculator is GTK is it not? |
| 00:12.47 | jonwil | Oh wait I see now, the stock calculator is GTK |
| 00:12.53 | jonwil | and the open clone is QT |
| 00:14.21 | jonwil | Which entity is referred to by BOM in the "BOM plugin for omweather"? |
| 00:14.30 | jonwil | its obviously some sort of weather agency |
| 00:14.38 | jonwil | but in which country? |
| 00:14.52 | Oksana | BOM is australian |
| 00:15.40 | jonwil | yeah |
| 00:15.43 | jonwil | duh |
| 00:15.50 | jonwil | I should know that, I check their website all the time :) |
| 00:15.56 | jonwil | I didn't even know they had an API... |
| 00:16.49 | Oksana | added a link to omweather bom plugin on github, it is possible that it just needs debian packaging? |
| 00:18.24 | Oksana | Just refresh the ideas page, and you will see links. No idea how to make them click-able, they are currently in text |
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| 00:24.16 | Oksanaa | /me waves from mobile |
| 00:25.01 | jonwil | I dont really see anything on that page that I have any real interest in working on. |
| 00:25.20 | jonwil | Dont use my N900 for media things. |
| 00:26.11 | Oksanaa | Okay :-) feel free to recommend it to somebody else more GUI-oriented ? |
| 00:26.54 | jonwil | the https://telepathy.freedesktop.org/wiki/Tubes/ link seems broken btw |
| 00:26.55 | jonwil | it doesn't work |
| 00:27.15 | Oksanaa | Not for media things... Because of CPU or because of quality of speakers or because of something else? |
| 00:27.36 | jonwil | I am on my PC at home all the time for media things |
| 00:27.53 | Oksanaa | Yes, telepathy website changed recently. Refresh the page, there is a better "link" now |
| 00:27.55 | jonwil | and when I am out-and-about I dont want to do media things (I hate headphones and dont want to play music through speakers and annoy people around me) |
| 00:29.10 | Oksanaa | I like to play music on a bus at the same volume as ambient noise. More cheerful than just seeing gloomy people silently reading facebook |
| 00:29.10 | jonwil | What exactly is meant by "empathy chess integration"? |
| 00:30.08 | Oksanaa | Playing chess with a contact. Not with computer, not with a human located geographically at same phone, but with a telepathy contact at other side of the planet |
| 00:30.27 | jonwil | so empathy is an existing chess program? |
| 00:30.49 | jonwil | and this is about using telepathy to make it work on n900? |
| 00:31.35 | Oksanaa | Nay, telepathy is the provider of d-bus tubes. I am hoping that existing osso-chess-ui progam emits d-bus signals for the movies it is making |
| 00:32.59 | Oksanaa | Like: osso-chess-ui would send a d-bus signal over telepathy's d-bus tube, across Internet-or-something, to a contact with similar d-bus tube and chess-board |
| 00:34.02 | jonwil | osso-chess-ui is open source |
| 00:34.09 | jonwil | and it uses gnuchess as its engine under the hood |
| 00:34.30 | jonwil | so someone who actually knows how to play chess (and knows telepathy) could probably make it happen. |
| 00:34.50 | jonwil | But I dont know the first thing about how to program telepathy (which is why reverse engineering things that talk to it has been impossible for me so far) |
| 00:35.12 | Oksanaa | Yes, that's why it could be easy: it's relatively open-source. Hopefully, our telepathy is not too old for d-bus tubes |
| 00:35.18 | jonwil | and I keep soundly getting beaten every time by the AI on the maemo chess (even on the easiest setting) |
| 00:35.58 | jonwil | so that's not something I will do. |
| 00:36.16 | Oksanaa | I would also like GNU Go, and gui for it. It's not as well-known as GNU Chess, though |
| 00:37.04 | jonwil | I wouldn't mind Backgammon for the N900, that's a game I am actually good at... |
| 00:37.20 | jonwil | but writing a backgammon AI from scratch doesn't sound fun |
| 00:37.30 | jonwil | and I dont know of any existing backgammon game I could port |
| 00:37.47 | Oksanaa | A more intuitive (than Cute CW) version of Morse Code GUI could be good, too. |
| 00:38.58 | Oksanaa | jonwil: https://packages.debian.org/wheezy/gnubg |
| 00:40.28 | Oksanaa | You would probably need to write frontend for it. But engine is already in existence, no problem |
| 00:45.10 | Oksanaa | And https://archive.debian.net/squeeze/gnubg |
| 00:46.20 | jonwil | it already has a gtk ui although how one would go about porting that to the N900 I dont know |
| 00:47.58 | jonwil | It might be worth putting some of the things from that other link under https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_Coding_Competition_2016#Wishlist |
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| 00:48.15 | jonwil | have a list there of things people want but cant do themselves |
| 00:48.29 | jonwil | so people who can code but lack ideas can go there and look for them |
| 00:48.45 | jonwil | right now that list is mostly sailfish stuff |
| 00:49.11 | jonwil | I might add the gnubg port to that wishlist :) |
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| 00:53.42 | Oksana | Porting has two levels. 1) Mostly unmodified package working on N900, dependencies matched, *.desktop probably moved to appropriate location, put into Extras-repository; 2) GTK ui completely re-written into Hildon, package renamed appropriately to reflect the difference from original |
| 00:54.42 | Oksana | gry: First, how to make external links on iki clickable? Second, consider copying some of the things from here under https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_Coding_Competition_2016#Wishlist |
| 00:54.57 | gry | Oksana, [duck duck](http://ddg.gg) |
| 00:55.09 | gry | Ok, will do |
| 00:55.26 | Maxdamantus | has played a bit of gnugo (via qgo) on his N900. |
| 00:55.46 | Maxdamantus | was quite slow, and I'm not very good at Go so was probably using a low level. |
| 00:55.57 | Maxdamantus | (the gnugo bit, that is) |
| 00:56.45 | Maxdamantus | Probably better to run it remotely to save battery and time. |
| 01:03.57 | jonwil | Added the GNU Backgammon thing to the wishlist on the wiki |
| 01:06.08 | jonwil | As for the coding contest, nothing on the wishlist has any interest for me (dont do SFOS and dont use emulators on my N900) |
| 01:06.58 | jonwil | as for "remove proprietary graphics from games" its been done for chess and mahjong and just needs doing for lmarbels |
| 01:07.01 | jonwil | lmarbles |
| 01:07.28 | jonwil | chess and mahjong sounds have also been done |
| 01:07.45 | jonwil | I dont have the art skills to do it for lmarbles though so thats out :) |
| 01:07.55 | jonwil | plus that's not really coding in any case :) |
| 01:10.56 | jonwil | At this point unless I end up finding something on http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages that has yet to be reverse engineered AND that I have an interest in reverse engineering AND that I am capable of reverse engineering, the top contender for what I will do in the coding contest is an app for my local public transport agency |
| 01:11.22 | jonwil | The agency provides REST and SOAP APIs for doing route/journey planning |
| 01:11.46 | jonwil | and some Google GTFS and GTFS-realtime data for their routes and operations |
| 01:12.05 | jonwil | and their mobile site got rewritten recently and isn't usable on the old N900 browser anymore |
| 01:12.15 | jonwil | so an app using their APIs and data seems like a great thing. |
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| 01:13.44 | jonwil | Libs for doing rest/soap are easy to find (probably already something in the repos somewhere) |
| 01:13.57 | jonwil | and I bet there is code out there for parsing Google GTFS and GTFS-realtime data |
| 01:17.17 | jonwil | for the UI I am thinking QT since I know more about QT than GTK and since I have a big fat QT4 programming book sitting in my box of books :) |
| 01:28.32 | Oksana | dislikes Qt; nothing personal, it's just not the "default" widget toolkit for Hildon; and it would be nice to have "universal" transport app, similar to "universal" email client Modest; with various plugins (GTFS, REST, SOAP APIs) requesting configuration (like, web-server, port, similar) |
| 01:29.47 | jonwil | except that the APIs and data is likely to be totally different for each agency |
| 01:29.52 | jonwil | well not the Google GTFS |
| 01:30.00 | jonwil | but the APIs |
| 01:30.25 | Oksana | Well, that's the problem: need yet another plugin for each agency. Just like omweather and its plugins... |
| 01:31.05 | Oksana | However, if there were several well-known APIs (like GTFS), then one plugin would be enough for several agencies at the same time |
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| 04:05.39 | jonwil | oh great, looks like if I want to do Google GTFS-realtime data on Maemo I need to find a way to get Google Protocol Buffers working on Maemo |
| 04:07.13 | jonwil | and more so get them going with the ancient GCC 4.2.1 version Maemo is stuck with |
| 04:07.48 | jonwil | If I can find the right debian packages for protobuf (the runtime side in particular) I could try and back-port it |
| 04:07.52 | jonwil | That might be a good place to start |
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| 05:59.44 | jonwil | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1517946#post1517946 |
| 06:37.25 | sicelo | jonwil: there is backgammon for n900, offscr-backgammon |
| 06:43.32 | Oksana | Is it open-source?.. |
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| 07:00.16 | jonwil | I think offscr-backgammon was in the old ovi store |
| 07:00.22 | jonwil | which is gone |
| 07:00.35 | jonwil | I dont believe it was open source |
| 07:12.11 | jonwil | in fact I am sure it wasn't |
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| 07:24.29 | bencoh | yup it's in ovi |
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| 07:42.58 | jonwil | If I can figure out how to read the GTFS and GTFS-realtime data on the N900 I think the transit app I am planning to write should be doable |
| 07:43.57 | bencoh | gtfs ? google traffics? |
| 07:45.48 | jonwil | Google transit |
| 07:46.06 | jonwil | public transport agencies publish data in that format and apps can use it |
| 07:46.18 | jonwil | GTFS provides data on routes, stops, schedules etc |
| 07:46.32 | jonwil | then GTFS-realtime is real-time tracking data on top of that |
| 07:46.57 | bencoh | don't they have a public API for that |
| 07:47.12 | bencoh | in json/xml iirc |
| 07:47.29 | jonwil | different agencies do different things |
| 07:47.42 | jonwil | The transport agency in my area provides Google GTFS data |
| 07:47.53 | jonwil | plus a GTFS-realtime data feed |
| 07:48.10 | jonwil | plus also a REST/SOAP API for journey planning/scheduling |
| 07:48.19 | jonwil | all 3 of which I plan to use in my app |
| 07:48.32 | jonwil | REST isn't a problem, there are libs for that in the repos |
| 07:48.47 | bencoh | no I mean ... google has an api for that right? |
| 07:48.59 | jonwil | google doesn't have an API |
| 07:49.02 | jonwil | or if they do, its not one I have seen |
| 07:49.29 | jonwil | https://developers.google.com/transit/ is what I see with Google |
| 07:49.38 | jonwil | and that is just the specs for GTFS and GTFS-realtime |
| 07:50.00 | bencoh | they at least do for directions |
| 07:50.21 | jonwil | oh wait I see now, its part of the Google Maps API. |
| 07:50.30 | jonwil | But that's not what I need |
| 07:50.48 | jonwil | I have a specific feature set in mind for the app based on what I personally want to do with it. |
| 07:51.10 | bencoh | which is? |
| 07:51.45 | jonwil | I want to write something that uses the REST API to let me do journey planning (they have a mobile website but they recently upgraded it and now its useless on the N900 browser) |
| 07:51.50 | jonwil | And ' |
| 07:52.01 | jonwil | And I want to use the GTFS and GTFS-realtime APIs to track things |
| 07:52.20 | jonwil | I want something to track buses comming to the stop I am at |
| 07:52.35 | jonwil | and tell me when the next bus is due |
| 07:52.46 | jonwil | well bus/train/tram/ferry since this agency does all 4 :) |
| 07:53.39 | jonwil | I also want something that I can use (again via the GTFS-realtime data) to follow the vehicle I am currently riding on and display the upcoming stops so I know when to get off. |
| 07:53.58 | jonwil | The Google Maps API wont help with the features I want |
| 07:54.38 | jonwil | hence why I want to be able to read GTFS and GTFS-realtime data on the N900 |
| 07:54.57 | jonwil | GTFS is just text files and I bet I could find a C/C++ library that reads them and port that to the N900 |
| 07:55.06 | jonwil | But GTFS-realtime uses Google Protocol Buffers |
| 07:55.16 | jonwil | and so I need to figure out how to get that thing ported to the N900 |
| 07:55.39 | jonwil | https://developers.google.com/protocol-buffers/ |
| 08:01.18 | jonwil | well I was wrong and I cant find a C/C++ library for parsing GTFS |
| 08:01.28 | jonwil | but I am probably just not using the right search terms :P |
| 08:01.47 | jonwil | certainly though getting protocol-buffers working on the N900 is key to my app, otherwise I cant do what I want |
| 08:09.29 | bencoh | jonwil: err iirc I've built protobuf already |
| 08:09.42 | bencoh | just haven't had time to clean/push it to extras |
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| 08:14.34 | bencoh | jonwil: protobuf/c++ is already present in extras*, and I have protobuf-c lying around if you want |
| 08:17.57 | jonwil | is protobuf/c++ the latest version? |
| 08:18.03 | jonwil | and what package(s) do I want? |
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| 08:42.06 | bencoh | I dunno what you're looking for to be honest, so ... no idea ;) |
| 08:42.21 | bencoh | protobuf-c is 0.14 here |
| 08:42.32 | bencoh | protobuf is latest in extras ... 2.4.x |
| 09:13.43 | jonwil | According to https://github.com/google/protobuf/releases the latest release from Google is 3.1.0 |
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| 09:36.26 | jonwil | Looks like the .proto file for GTFS-realtime needs protobuf 2.x anyway |
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| 10:08.24 | jonwil | ok, I got the .proto file to spit out a .cc file and a .h file and the result compiles in scratchbox with the included gcc |
| 10:08.29 | jonwil | So that seems to be going |
| 10:08.45 | jonwil | So I got the protobuf stuff installed properly |
| 10:08.50 | jonwil | At least I hope so |
| 10:08.57 | jonwil | I also got librest for the REST api installed |
| 10:16.28 | sicelo | :) |
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| 12:25.29 | jonwil | now all I need is to find something to parse GTFS and I can start working on this app (well that and I need a name) |
| 12:25.50 | bencoh | "something? |
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| 12:54.34 | jonwil | a C/C++ library more specifically :) |
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| 13:05.43 | jon_y | jonwil: use flex/bison? :) |
| 13:14.45 | jonwil | I dont know the first thing about using flex/bison or how to write parsers |
| 13:14.57 | jonwil | I dont think flex/bison is the right tool for GTFS data in any case |
| 13:15.05 | jonwil | since its comma delimited text |
| 13:16.49 | jon_y | use perl :) |
| 13:17.58 | jon_y | $\ = q{,}; @results = map {...} <STDIN>; |
| 13:18.56 | jon_y | flex/bison isn't hard to pick up if you know regex |
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| 14:06.12 | _maniac_ | GTFS data is just a zip of csv-like files. not sure of GTFS-relatime, didn't touch that. |
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| 20:34.07 | jonwil | hi |
| 20:36.36 | CatButts | uhllo |
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| 23:22.00 | *** join/#maemo Natch (~Natch@h-155-122.a444.priv.bahnhof.se) |
| 23:24.02 | *** join/#maemo norayr (~noch@arnet.am) |
| 23:24.07 | *** part/#maemo norayr (~noch@arnet.am) |