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| 01:59.37 | buZz | \o/ |
| 01:59.41 | buZz | bought a N810 |
| 01:59.52 | buZz | to compliment my N770 and N800 :) |
| 02:53.16 | *** part/#maemo L29Ah (~L29Ah@cl-154.led-01.ru.sixxs.net) |
| 03:51.16 | *** join/#maemo KotCzarny (ariel@31.135.195.151) |
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| 05:05.09 | sicelo | :) |
| 05:32.39 | sunshavi | buZz: how much was it? |
| 05:34.18 | buZz | i paid 20 gbp + shipping |
| 05:34.25 | buZz | he was asking 60 gbp iirc |
| 05:35.15 | sunshavi | 60 gbp in dollars? |
| 05:35.32 | buZz | no in gbp :P |
| 05:35.42 | buZz | 74.62 US Dollar |
| 05:35.50 | sunshavi | nice price |
| 05:36.15 | sunshavi | i have been using for several years my n800 |
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| 05:36.16 | buZz | i didnt want to go over 50 so lowballed |
| 05:36.24 | sunshavi | last month i switched to n900 |
| 05:36.30 | buZz | yeah n800 was my first maemo device |
| 05:36.40 | buZz | but just .. last year? hmm |
| 05:36.50 | sunshavi | last month |
| 05:37.05 | buZz | yeah i mean, i didnt have maemos before a year ago |
| 05:37.08 | sunshavi | n800 was my always on machine |
| 05:37.46 | sunshavi | i used it for listening streams, fm radio, as a bluetooth access point |
| 05:38.01 | sunshavi | but after a month it needed a reboot |
| 05:38.17 | sunshavi | n810 has more mem, that is nice |
| 05:38.24 | buZz | and the keyboard |
| 05:38.36 | sunshavi | n800 is what i have been using for irc |
| 05:38.56 | sunshavi | now, all those functions are done by the n900 |
| 05:39.31 | sunshavi | yeah, keyboard is nice too |
| 05:40.01 | sunshavi | would n810 kbd be better than n900 kbd? |
| 05:40.08 | sunshavi | do you own an n900? |
| 05:40.49 | buZz | not yet |
| 05:41.26 | sunshavi | ok, then later You could tell which one is better :) |
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| 06:28.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think N810 kbd is better |
| 06:28.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh he left |
| 06:32.07 | CatButts | someday n900, someday... |
| 06:33.38 | CatButts | maybe when I get my first salary |
| 06:33.43 | Vajb | i liked e90 keyboard (i know it is not maemo device but meh) |
| 06:34.39 | Vajb | and only problem with n900 keyboard is disappearing signs (physical wear) |
| 06:37.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | indeed |
| 06:38.48 | CatButts | that doesn't sound very nice |
| 06:40.02 | CatButts | oh, speaking of keyboards |
| 06:40.14 | CatButts | how does the n900 one ghost? |
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| 06:40.39 | CatButts | I had a chingchong usb keyboard that could do 3, maybe 4 keys at once |
| 06:40.58 | CatButts | now I have an old hp one which ghosts past 2 keys |
| 06:41.13 | Vajb | ghost? |
| 06:41.32 | CatButts | when you press more keys at once, only part of them are registered |
| 06:41.35 | Vajb | u mean when u type something signs don't appear instantly? |
| 06:41.39 | Vajb | ah |
| 06:41.54 | Vajb | well at least maemo has 3-key combinations |
| 06:41.56 | CatButts | I use PC keyboard as makeshift piano keys |
| 06:42.07 | CatButts | 3 should be enough |
| 06:42.50 | Vajb | i think i game across with that problem with ms wireless keyb while playing frets on fire |
| 06:43.00 | Vajb | err came across* |
| 06:43.39 | bencoh | pressing 3 keys at the same time on n900 isn't exactly ... comfortable |
| 06:44.05 | CatButts | haha yeah, forgot to factor in the size |
| 06:44.16 | Vajb | bencoh: but the question wasn't about that ;) |
| 06:45.01 | bencoh | sure |
| 06:45.38 | bencoh | as for ghosting there are a few combinations that won't work properly |
| 06:46.27 | Vajb | can admit that with ctrl+shift one needs to use something else than just thumbs.... |
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| 07:08.02 | KotCzarny | nokia 5510 kb was pretty nice to use |
| 07:08.16 | KotCzarny | imo much better than n810/n900 |
| 07:08.33 | KotCzarny | (hw kb wise) |
| 07:08.57 | KotCzarny | better spacing, more thumb typing friendly, more keys |
| 07:09.02 | bencoh | hmm, dunno |
| 07:09.24 | KotCzarny | and it actually had spacing between keys, do you wouldnt press 2 at the time by mistake |
| 07:09.25 | bencoh | it was nice alright |
| 07:09.42 | KotCzarny | s/do you/so you/ |
| 07:15.06 | Vajb | 5510? Was it the device where the screen was inbetween rows of keys? |
| 07:15.12 | KotCzarny | yup |
| 07:15.20 | KotCzarny | and had hw mp3 player |
| 07:15.24 | KotCzarny | with 64mb of flash |
| 07:15.26 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 07:15.34 | KotCzarny | (otherwise it was pretty standard 3310 |
| 07:15.38 | Vajb | right. Here they marketed it as "sms'er phone" |
| 07:15.47 | KotCzarny | yup. and it delivered |
| 07:15.47 | bencoh | and fm radio .... 64MB was pretty low btw |
| 07:15.52 | KotCzarny | typing on it was a prleasure |
| 07:16.08 | Vajb | never had one |
| 07:16.13 | bencoh | and sms were still pretty costly at that time, so .... |
| 07:16.32 | Vajb | so it was great marketing |
| 07:16.44 | KotCzarny | i still have one in the closet |
| 07:16.52 | Vajb | it supported long sms too? |
| 07:16.53 | KotCzarny | flash went buh-bye by itslef |
| 07:16.58 | KotCzarny | i think yes |
| 07:17.04 | bencoh | yeah it did |
| 07:17.14 | Vajb | that was great invention then |
| 07:17.21 | Vajb | for mobile operators :) |
| 07:17.24 | KotCzarny | Advanced SMS messaging: Chat, concatenated messages, templates, and smileys |
| 07:17.26 | bencoh | huhu |
| 07:18.25 | Vajb | i heard somewhere that 140 characters wasn't the original plan, but they decided it because they thought no one will use them anyway |
| 07:19.01 | KotCzarny | vajb, adding unicode support mad it really suck |
| 07:19.07 | KotCzarny | *made |
| 07:19.19 | KotCzarny | so you had 70chars per message |
| 07:19.34 | Vajb | and now we are getting back to basics since everyone is using twitter which has 140 characters afaik |
| 07:20.26 | KotCzarny | btw. sms is 160 chars |
| 07:20.59 | Vajb | nowadays it has been funny to read old game magazines where they advertize custom operator logos, ring tones and screensavers |
| 07:21.16 | Vajb | it is? |
| 07:21.19 | KotCzarny | yup |
| 07:21.22 | bencoh | depends on encoding |
| 07:21.29 | Vajb | my memory is having some joke over me... |
| 07:21.47 | KotCzarny | These were defined in 1985 as part of the Global System for Mobile Communications (GSM) series of standards[5][full citation needed] as a means of sending messages of up to 160 characters to and from GSM mobile handsets |
| 07:21.57 | bencoh | (there are some 7bits tricks as well) |
| 07:24.25 | KotCzarny | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Short_Message_Service#Message_size |
| 07:29.52 | KotCzarny | amazes me how voice connection is cheaper than sms |
| 07:30.31 | KotCzarny | would be nice to implement some modem interface over voice channel (that would go through compression) |
| 07:31.10 | KotCzarny | here sms costs ~40s of voice (on prepaid) |
| 07:31.57 | Vajb | i guess it's about the same everywhere |
| 07:33.04 | bencoh | Vajb: some countries/operators have really cheap unlimited sms plans |
| 07:33.16 | Vajb | i use mostly just data so i don't care much :) |
| 07:33.25 | KotCzarny | https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/27/SMS_messages_sent_monthly_in_USA_%28in_billions%29.svg |
| 07:33.26 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 07:33.28 | Vajb | well true |
| 07:33.44 | KotCzarny | one can hardly say it's obsolete tech ;) |
| 07:33.58 | Vajb | we have monthly packages of sms for fixed price |
| 07:34.32 | KotCzarny | its a great way to send inormation when voice isnt feasible for any reason |
| 07:34.52 | KotCzarny | similar to email but without need for having an account |
| 07:35.56 | Vajb | but it is somewhat disappearing or atleast sliding off from standards... |
| 07:36.18 | Vajb | like n900 can't receive sms from samsung galaxy s6 |
| 07:36.38 | KotCzarny | thats because people like those idiotleys |
| 07:36.52 | Vajb | aha |
| 07:37.14 | KotCzarny | in my days we had colon and parentheses. and it was good! |
| 07:37.19 | KotCzarny | grumbles |
| 07:38.37 | Vajb | in my days we didn't have phones. Instead we went to visit. |
| 07:39.00 | Vajb | i bought my first phone when i turn 18 |
| 07:39.28 | Vajb | now idiotic parents buy phone for their 3 yo infant |
| 07:39.41 | KotCzarny | sing of days |
| 07:39.54 | Vajb | hmm maybe fetus phone will be next big step |
| 07:40.12 | KotCzarny | sperm phone? |
| 07:40.15 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 07:40.17 | Vajb | it even rhymes |
| 07:40.55 | Vajb | hmm why not. We have sperm banks already |
| 07:41.31 | KotCzarny | but dont worry, our civilisation is on the brink of another dark age |
| 07:41.44 | KotCzarny | so enjoy while you can |
| 07:42.09 | KotCzarny | we had pretty good 50 or so years of bright developments |
| 07:42.45 | Vajb | up and downs |
| 07:42.50 | Vajb | irony of life |
| 07:45.31 | KotCzarny | nope, just balance of things |
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| 08:08.47 | ceene | sms are expensive because they made them so |
| 08:09.01 | ceene | but sending an sms is essentialy free for the network |
| 08:13.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | initially (in protocol specs) they been meant to be free ;-P |
| 08:17.09 | KotCzarny | knowing people, having sms service free they would hack ghetto-internet protocol over it :P |
| 08:18.24 | KotCzarny | well, more ghett-bbs |
| 08:19.50 | ceene | i don't now why, but sms do have a feeling different than IM |
| 08:20.21 | KotCzarny | because you have to pay for it maybe? |
| 08:20.22 | ceene | it's like sending/receiving a telegram: it must be important |
| 08:21.19 | ceene | don't know, i remember one summer movistar made them free as a promotion, for a while |
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| 08:21.53 | ceene | i don't think i've sent as many whatsapps as sms i sent that summer :D |
| 08:22.25 | bencoh | (you cant send whatsapps anymore anyway :p) |
| 08:22.59 | KotCzarny | another thing is people tend to have phones nearby, and getting sms is almost always heard |
| 08:23.13 | KotCzarny | in case of computer based im its not always the case |
| 08:25.11 | ceene | bip bip bip biiiiip biiiiiip bip bip bip |
| 08:25.25 | KotCzarny | morse code for sms |
| 08:25.30 | ceene | yeah :D |
| 08:25.55 | ceene | nokia was the best thing to happen to mainstream technology |
| 08:26.12 | KotCzarny | sad thing they are no more |
| 08:26.43 | KotCzarny | samsung just makes commercial toys |
| 08:27.06 | KotCzarny | almost no innovation |
| 08:35.31 | ceene | innovation is not easy, though |
| 08:36.00 | ceene | i want to set up a business, but all i can think of is selling muffins or a restaurant :D |
| 08:36.30 | ceene | i can't think of any useful technological thingy |
| 08:36.33 | ceene | lol |
| 08:39.05 | Vajb | ceene: maybe fetus phone? |
| 08:39.42 | KotCzarny | ceene, kickstart marvel soc based router/nas/ip cam board? |
| 08:40.10 | KotCzarny | iot is on the rise nowadays |
| 08:40.45 | bencoh | ceene: muffins <3 |
| 08:40.53 | ceene | :D |
| 08:41.09 | KotCzarny | if you manage to pack 2x sata, 1x minipcie, 2xgbit, at least dual core cpu, 1gb ram onto board for less than 20usd you will be a winner |
| 08:41.10 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 08:41.14 | ceene | don't know, yeah, maybe any kickstarter would reach critical mass |
| 08:41.25 | bencoh | potato salad |
| 08:41.41 | bencoh | (it really looked good) |
| 08:41.52 | KotCzarny | espressobin board is very tempting, but they made shipping price crazy |
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| 09:28.17 | KotCzarny | hey, c wizards, what is the difference between *c[] and **c ? |
| 09:56.53 | Maxdamantus | KotCzarny: in a declaration, one is the designator for an array of pointers, the other a designator for a pointer to a pointer. |
| 09:57.09 | KotCzarny | hmm, and in use? |
| 09:57.13 | Maxdamantus | well, "declarator" is the proper term iirc |
| 09:57.23 | KotCzarny | im asking specifically because of getline() |
| 09:57.32 | Maxdamantus | one's an array, the other's a pointer. |
| 09:57.35 | KotCzarny | it requires **p as an arg |
| 09:57.55 | hexnewbie | In use, one's invalid syntax (I think), the other dereferences a pointer twice. |
| 09:57.56 | KotCzarny | (but it really needs an address of the first char) |
| 09:58.20 | Maxdamantus | They're both valid declarators, just not actual expressions. |
| 09:58.56 | KotCzarny | or may i ask another way, how to pass *c[] to getline() |
| 09:59.10 | KotCzarny | for **c its just getline(&c, ...) |
| 09:59.16 | Maxdamantus | KotCzarny: you probably don't want to. |
| 10:00.07 | Maxdamantus | KotCzarny: if you pass `c` to getline, it will read and update `*c`. |
| 10:00.08 | KotCzarny | wait, i've asked wrong. how to pass c[] to getline(), for *c=malloc() its just getline(&c, ..) |
| 10:00.11 | ceene | you don't want to pass *c[] to getline |
| 10:00.52 | ceene | getline requires a pointer to a pointer |
| 10:00.59 | ceene | because inside getline there's already a malloc() |
| 10:01.00 | Maxdamantus | if you have a `char c[x];`, you should probably create a pointer into `c` then pass the pointer to that. |
| 10:01.02 | hexnewbie | KotCzarny: You cannot. getline will allocate new memory, and give you back a pointer. |
| 10:01.16 | Maxdamantus | char *p = c; getline(&p, ..) |
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| 10:01.29 | KotCzarny | hmm. but in getline manual it says you can pass already allocated buffer |
| 10:01.48 | hexnewbie | KotCzarny: OK, I'm wrong. Yeah. Sorry. |
| 10:01.55 | Maxdamantus | It is already allocated in this case. |
| 10:02.00 | ceene | you can char *c=malloc() and then call getline(&c...) |
| 10:02.08 | Maxdamantus | *p is already pointing into an array; it's not NULL. |
| 10:02.12 | ceene | but &c in that case is a pointer to a *c, thus **c |
| 10:02.23 | KotCzarny | i know, i've done it. but i wonder how to write it using c[] |
| 10:02.28 | hexnewbie | KotCzarny: I'd still prefer if getline() to allocate it for me, though. |
| 10:03.01 | Maxdamantus | What are you expecting `getline` to **UPDATE** if you just give it a `char [x]`? |
| 10:03.05 | ceene | you could char c[]="whatever" and call getline(&c... but that will end up causing an error |
| 10:03.21 | ceene | because getline can't make c point to any other thing than "whatever", because it's not a pointer |
| 10:03.28 | Maxdamantus | ceene: you can't even call that. |
| 10:03.40 | Maxdamantus | ceene: &c is a pointer to an array, not a pointer to a pointer. |
| 10:03.45 | hexnewbie | KotCzarny: I read the man page. You *cannot* pass an array there, as it may try to run realloc() the pointer you passed. This means it has to be malloc()ed, and not an array allocated on the stack |
| 10:03.58 | KotCzarny | uhum |
| 10:04.21 | Maxdamantus | hexnewbie: that's wrong. |
| 10:04.31 | hexnewbie | Maxdamantus: Which part? :) |
| 10:04.46 | Maxdamantus | hexnewbie: it caring how the memory is allocated. |
| 10:05.17 | hexnewbie | Maxdamantus: Alternatively, before calling getline(), *lineptr can contain a pointer to a malloc(3)-allocated buffer *n bytes in size. If the buffer is not large enough to hold the line, getline() resizes it with realloc(3), updating *lineptr and *n as necessary.ââ |
| 10:05.34 | Maxdamantus | Ah, okay, nvm. |
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| 10:07.17 | Maxdamantus | KotCzarny: maybe what you want is `fgets` |
| 10:07.46 | KotCzarny | ahm right. i forgot about it |
| 10:08.08 | KotCzarny | thx! |
| 10:19.54 | ceene | so, a kickstarter for muffins... |
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| 12:59.11 | KotCzarny | i should've started writing in gtk available for maemo. |
| 12:59.14 | KotCzarny | grumbles |
| 12:59.52 | bencoh | indeed |
| 13:00.17 | KotCzarny | GSocketConnection is available since 2.32. eh |
| 13:02.16 | KotCzarny | 2.14 seems.. antique |
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| 14:05.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((bip bip bip biiiiip biiiiiip bip bip bip)) = S M S (morse) |
| 14:05.56 | CatButts | furts |
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| 14:33.43 | KotCzarny | furts? |
| 14:41.40 | _maniac_ | purrs and farts (probably) |
| 14:43.27 | CatButts | no, just farts |
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| 14:52.50 | ceene | i'm bored |
| 14:52.56 | ceene | maybe i'm boring, too |
| 14:53.01 | KotCzarny | hrm, gethostbyname fails for ip addr |
| 14:53.09 | KotCzarny | wth |
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| 18:11.27 | sicelo | meh .. so i had been making life hard for myself on N900 .. not getting the benefits of the avahi daemon that we have always running |
| 18:11.39 | sicelo | got to adjust my iptables rules |
| 18:48.59 | ceene | what do you use it for? |
| 18:49.12 | ceene | i've never quite guessed what it does |
| 18:49.31 | sicelo | like Bonjour on Apple devices |
| 18:50.13 | ceene | don't know what that is either |
| 18:50.21 | KotCzarny | making life easier for users, and harder for devs/distro maintainers |
| 18:50.23 | ceene | something about selfdiscovering something? |
| 18:50.28 | sicelo | it allows you to connect to your device via hostname from any network that you are connected to, without having to first discover/know the IP address |
| 18:50.32 | sicelo | yes, that |
| 18:50.51 | KotCzarny | part of the dbus/nm/systemd cabal |
| 18:51.33 | sicelo | like PA, it's on our N900, and we can't run from it .. so may as well use it :-) |
| 18:51.43 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 18:51.48 | sicelo | i am not planning to install it on my laptop for example |
| 18:52.44 | KotCzarny | offtopic, oscp-remote-gtk works on n900. yay. and the same code compiles/works on pc linux/windoze(mingw) |
| 18:52.58 | ceene | cool! |
| 18:53.04 | sicelo | didn't it work on N900 before? |
| 18:53.11 | KotCzarny | its funny how different versions of gtk trigger different kind of bugs |
| 18:53.23 | KotCzarny | sicelo, i've ported pygtk to native gtk |
| 18:53.36 | KotCzarny | 18M -> ~9M of ram usage |
| 18:53.47 | KotCzarny | fewer dependencies too |
| 18:54.22 | KotCzarny | also, writing app in gtk is easy once one make few defins/helper funcs |
| 18:54.44 | ceene | how hard is gtk gui design? |
| 18:54.45 | sicelo | awesome (the halving of RAM use) |
| 18:54.52 | ceene | i just don't know how to design guis :( |
| 18:55.16 | KotCzarny | ceene, depends, if you know 'this button i want on this side, that list on that side' its easy |
| 18:55.31 | KotCzarny | ceene, see setup_window() in the source |
| 18:56.06 | KotCzarny | ie. you have to prepare widgets (buttons, labels, windows), then pack them inside other widgets and show |
| 18:56.16 | KotCzarny | adding few callbacks and its done |
| 18:56.42 | ceene | all that signal connecting, though... |
| 18:57.00 | KotCzarny | nah, its easy, you use one or two templates max |
| 18:57.45 | KotCzarny | i would've probably put those signal connects into helper function if i digged out how to pass functions to functions |
| 18:58.11 | ceene | pointers to functions :) |
| 18:58.13 | KotCzarny | gtk syntax if descriptive as 70yo man |
| 18:58.18 | KotCzarny | *is |
| 18:58.50 | KotCzarny | oscp-remote-gtk is quite complete (i still have to add dbus to the mix, /me shrugs) |
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| 23:07.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | avahi = poettering. completely fucked up protocol, that picks for example IP addr at random, then does ARP "poisoning" etc to find if another device already has that addr and to advertise its own addr to any DNServer in local network, or simply does its own ARP on own behalf to answer ARP requests from other devices etc |
| 23:08.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | a *nightmare* for any network admin |
| 23:09.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | add one avahi device into a decently configured LAN and odds are you are gambling with the complete LAN going south, since NS collicions and whatnot |
| 23:10.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw I have no avahi on my maemo |
| 23:10.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | what we got is pretty okish dnsmasq |
| 23:27.00 | bencoh | protocol isn't poettering |
| 23:27.10 | bencoh | (even though it could be) |
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