| 00:22.26 | *** join/#maemo RedM (~redw@89-76-164-87.dynamic.chello.pl) |
| 00:31.07 | *** join/#maemo Antiguan (~arlan@pool-71-191-12-124.washdc.east.verizon.net) |
| 00:49.32 | Antiguan | Under SEH Team |
| 00:50.13 | CatButts | googles xchat 2.8.9 |
| 00:51.11 | CatButts | REATeam |
| 00:51.36 | CatButts | where is SEH Team |
| 00:51.58 | CatButts | grabs and shakes Antiguan |
| 01:13.26 | *** join/#maemo Antiguan (~arlan@pool-71-191-12-124.washdc.east.verizon.net) |
| 01:15.48 | Antiguan | Under SEH Team |
| 01:17.08 | CatButts | observes Antiguan |
| 01:38.07 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 01:38.42 | *** mode/#maemo [+q Antiguan!*@*] by DocScrutinizer05 |
| 01:38.55 | *** mode/#maemo [-o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 01:39.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | Antiguan: fix your client! |
| 01:40.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | once you did, /query me for -q |
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| 01:52.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | "fix" == "consider whether annoying other users with a crack note since being too cheap to support developers of your favorite IRC client with a humble amount is actually something you want to be famous for" |
| 02:22.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/search?q=Antiguan |
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| 06:27.48 | Maxdamantus | CatButts: XChat development has basically continued under the name HexChat btw |
| 06:28.08 | CatButts | am aware |
| 06:35.41 | KotCzarny | maxd: they should've named it xchat-ng |
| 06:35.48 | KotCzarny | or xchat3 |
| 06:36.09 | Maxdamantus | I imagine that might've been an issue if the XChat maintainer reappeared. |
| 06:36.12 | CatButts | it was named Xchat-WDK, prior to rename |
| 06:36.18 | KotCzarny | changing first letter makes it invisible for people trying to install xchat |
| 06:38.11 | bencoh | well they could just mention "xchat fork" in description and people will see it in search |
| 06:38.35 | bencoh | and actually "hexchat" might actually match already |
| 06:38.50 | Maxdamantus | * net-irc/hexchat |
| 06:38.50 | Maxdamantus | <PROTECTED> |
| 06:38.53 | Maxdamantus | in portage. |
| 06:38.55 | KotCzarny | bencoh, still,most people wouldnt find it, and actually installing old xchat would say 'f-it, it kinda works' |
| 06:39.27 | KotCzarny | or would imagine its some hackish thing |
| 06:39.39 | Maxdamantus | I imagine `apt-cache search xchat` should still find it anyway. |
| 06:39.48 | Maxdamantus | since "hexchat".substr(2) == "xchat" |
| 06:40.07 | KotCzarny | you are right, it showed |
| 06:40.34 | KotCzarny | still, average joe accustomed to xchat dont know xchat is not developed anymore |
| 06:40.54 | bencoh | tbh I didn't |
| 06:41.17 | bencoh | haven't used it for yrars anyway |
| 06:41.37 | Maxdamantus | used to use it. |
| 06:41.49 | Maxdamantus | changed to irssi in around 2009. |
| 06:42.22 | KotCzarny | last change is from 2013 |
| 06:42.27 | KotCzarny | on svn |
| 06:42.44 | KotCzarny | in plugins dir |
| 06:42.48 | KotCzarny | and in src |
| 06:43.38 | KotCzarny | 2.8.10 - dd/mm/yyyy |
| 06:43.40 | KotCzarny | he he |
| 06:45.13 | KotCzarny | similarly, last assigned bug is from 2013. andthere are lots of bugs as old as 2003 ;) |
| 06:46.08 | KotCzarny | HexChat (formerly XChat-WDK), cross-platform fork which adds various features |
| 06:46.19 | KotCzarny | oh, they had such name in the beginning |
| 06:47.57 | KotCzarny | on afunny note, hex is a namefor a medieval curse |
| 06:48.58 | CatButts | I'm still using ye olde Xchat |
| 06:49.19 | CatButts | the one thing that prevents me from switching is that I've yet to port my black theme to it |
| 06:49.43 | KotCzarny | shouldnt it use system (gtk+) colors ? |
| 06:50.35 | CatButts | Xchat relies on gtkrc file in same folder, for my installation |
| 06:51.05 | KotCzarny | my whole system uses ~/.gtkrc-2.0 orsomething |
| 06:51.28 | CatButts | unfortunatelly, the file has strings in it that seem xchat specific |
| 06:52.04 | CatButts | http://pastebin.com/aCp7yQyQ |
| 06:52.16 | CatButts | this theme is going to need some beating into shape |
| 06:52.24 | CatButts | if I can figure out how |
| 06:53.01 | KotCzarny | just merge it into system wide theme |
| 06:53.10 | CatButts | naw |
| 06:53.25 | KotCzarny | you are theming wildcard widgets, so it should work |
| 06:53.47 | KotCzarny | seriously, just append it at the end |
| 06:53.47 | CatButts | also, I should mention I am on Windows |
| 06:53.51 | CatButts | XP even |
| 06:55.54 | CatButts | few apps I have even use GTK |
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| 08:31.39 | _maniac_ | what happened to telegram-purple package? I remember having it on my old n900 |
| 08:36.34 | ginggs | this one? http://maemo.org/packages/view/purple-protocol-telegram/ |
| 08:37.20 | _maniac_ | probably yeah. I dont see it in my fapman. |
| 08:38.12 | bencoh | extras-devel? |
| 08:38.32 | bencoh | it works, btw. but you can't add contacts from pidgin UI |
| 08:38.49 | bencoh | (I had to add them by editing pidgin xml conf file) |
| 08:39.11 | _maniac_ | extras-devel enabled. and yeah I remember it working. |
| 08:39.39 | _maniac_ | probably fapman too busy fapping and not seeing updates. |
| 08:40.04 | bencoh | err wait, why do you use fapman? |
| 08:40.26 | bencoh | you're supposed to use the new fast HAM foss replacement |
| 08:41.48 | _maniac_ | where do I get one? because having repositories config in several places sucks. |
| 08:42.56 | bencoh | do you use cssu? |
| 08:43.23 | _maniac_ | yes, but not testing |
| 08:43.46 | bencoh | iirc new HAM is in latest -stable |
| 08:43.52 | _maniac_ | hem |
| 08:43.57 | bencoh | if not, I'd suggest cherry-picking it |
| 08:44.07 | Maxdamantus | apt-get is reasonably fast. |
| 08:44.25 | bencoh | yeah I don't use ham either ;) |
| 08:44.26 | _maniac_ | true |
| 08:45.19 | _maniac_ | but to use apt-get I need to put repoitories in YET ANOTHER PLACE |
| 08:46.09 | bencoh | no .... |
| 08:46.12 | Maxdamantus | Doesn't HAM/speedyHAM just use some aptitude library? Meh, dunno. |
| 08:46.23 | bencoh | _maniac_: apt-get and HAM use the same files |
| 08:46.43 | bencoh | I dont know about fap, but that thing is broken anyway |
| 08:46.46 | bencoh | ~fapman |
| 08:46.47 | infobot | methinks fapman is Faster Application Manager, a frontend for apt which uses own repositories catalog, and shouldn't be used to do system upgrades (like CSSU), or actually for anything since ~speedyHAM. It also does "apt-get autoremove" after every operation, by default. In short, it's been identified as source of system corruption and thus deprecated, or see ~hamvsfam |
| 08:50.14 | Maxdamantus | orcus:~# ldd /usr/libexec/apt-worker |
| 08:50.14 | Maxdamantus | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:50.55 | Maxdamantus | Same thing referred to by apt-get. They should use the code. |
| 08:51.42 | _maniac_ | oh ok. thank you for clearing this. |
| 08:51.54 | Maxdamantus | the same code* |
| 08:52.07 | Maxdamantus | (and thus resolve information using the same configuration files) |
| 08:52.46 | _maniac_ | I am having !FUN! with maemo again since 2013. my knowledge might be outdated. |
| 08:59.19 | _maniac_ | heh. it installs telegram-purple.so to / |
| 08:59.40 | KotCzarny | lol |
| 09:25.15 | bencoh | yeah this package is a tiny bit ... broken :/ |
| 09:26.14 | bencoh | oh, totalizator is idling in this channel |
| 09:26.22 | bencoh | ~seen totalizator |
| 09:26.24 | infobot | totalizator is currently on #maemo (3d 3h 4m 24s), last said: 'something is broken with this scrobbler anyways'. |
| 09:26.48 | bencoh | totalizator: do you have a git for telegram-purple? |
| 09:27.00 | bencoh | with your maemo-specific changes, and debian/ folder? |
| 09:27.11 | totalizator | yaawn, oh hello |
| 09:27.28 | totalizator | I do not, plus I'm not responsible for the latest build |
| 09:28.15 | totalizator | so I guess that all my work (simply altering a few lines) is rather deprecated |
| 09:28.31 | princefakhan | Is there something wrong with the WhatsApp purple plug-in? |
| 09:28.43 | princefakhan | Why hasn't it been ported to Maemo? |
| 09:29.37 | totalizator | princefakhan: I remember building it for someone but I have not tested it |
| 09:30.15 | totalizator | there is (was) no password in WhatsApp so it involved a bit of hacking your android config |
| 09:31.01 | bencoh | totalizator: aww :/ |
| 09:31.07 | princefakhan | You need to use wart for registering, right? |
| 09:31.30 | bencoh | princefakhan: purple-whatsapp is no longer maintained |
| 09:31.39 | bencoh | because of recent whatsapp aggressive behavior iirc |
| 09:31.45 | bencoh | s/iirc/afaict/ |
| 09:31.59 | bencoh | just like ceene stopped working on yappari |
| 09:32.41 | princefakhan | Yeah. I was Binging WhatsApp on Linux 2 days back. |
| 09:32.45 | bencoh | totalizator: do you know who uploaded that new package then? |
| 09:33.01 | princefakhan | The FirefoxOS fellows had some pretty neat options |
| 09:33.12 | bencoh | I guess I should just try and build a working one and push it to extras, then |
| 09:33.28 | bencoh | because it's a mess as of now :/ |
| 09:33.54 | totalizator | bencoh: sure - it's maacruz |
| 09:34.30 | princefakhan | Btw, anyone has any experience on flashing N900 on win10? |
| 09:34.44 | princefakhan | Or should I fire up my VM? |
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| 09:38.39 | bencoh | I wouldn't do anything n900-related from windows, but ... your call :) |
| 09:45.07 | princefakhan | It has worked before. I last flashed cssu via win8.1 |
| 09:45.33 | princefakhan | But the system is not reading the device now. |
| 09:45.48 | princefakhan | And I can't seem to enter flashing mode. |
| 09:46.10 | bencoh | does it show as a usb device? |
| 09:47.18 | princefakhan | No. |
| 09:47.39 | princefakhan | Maybe it's the usb cable or the N900's Own usb port |
| 09:47.52 | princefakhan | I don't have a spare one to check. |
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| 09:49.22 | princefakhan | Actually, the device was working fine. I ran apt-get upgrade and I guess it messed up with boot menu |
| 09:49.32 | princefakhan | Now it's stuck at the Nokia logo |
| 09:50.42 | princefakhan | BootMenu loads but as I select an option it will restart after few seconds |
| 10:10.25 | Hurrian | >bootmenu |
| 10:10.27 | Hurrian | Oh boy. |
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| 11:43.46 | KotCzarny | ~bootmenu |
| 11:43.51 | KotCzarny | ~ping |
| 11:43.51 | infobot | ~pong |
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| 16:58.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://twitter.com/ascherbaum/status/771392009185718272 >>OH: "Took us 30 years to fix all the bugs [in Unix/Linux]. It took #systemd less than a year to reintroduce them all again."<< |
| 16:58.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | Pali: ^^^ |
| 16:59.20 | Pali | fuck |
| 17:00.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | nice plain variant of >>those who don't understand unix...<< |
| 17:04.12 | bencoh | :/ |
| 17:04.38 | KotCzarny | longsleep: https://twitter.com/ascherbaum/status/771392009185718272 |
| 17:05.01 | KotCzarny | eh, wrong chan |
| 17:07.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | had a funny day killing systemd ntp syslog spam ( LogLevel=err: http://paste.opensuse.org/8455019 -finally-> http://paste.opensuse.org/55424121) and finding out about .socket crap (http://paste.opensuse.org/63196025) - systemd "solves real problems" and "everything is so much easier with systemd" BWAHAHA |
| 17:08.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://unix.stackexchange.com/questions/166639/how-to-disable-systemds-time-has-been-changed-message-spam-in-systemd-journal |
| 17:10.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Cp-u2F2WAAA7NVk.jpg:large |
| 17:12.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | on a brighter note: http://images.linoxide.com/systemd-vs-sysVinit-cheatsheet.jpg |
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| 21:29.13 | wnd | At work, we're using Puppet to manage production servers. In one of the environments all nodes are using SystemD. Once in a while when nginx configuration changes, nginx ends up stopped, but according to SystemD it's active(stopped) or something like that. As much as I'd like to blame this solely on SystemD, I also wonder is Puppet really is sending stop/start. Still, SystemD believes everything is fine. |
| 21:35.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | seen that on something around web too, yes |
| 21:36.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | con't recall details, ask dos1 |
| 21:36.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | but might be exactly same issue - just without puppet |
| 21:38.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | systemdoom solves the problems nobody has, while introducing age old new ones nobody needs |
| 21:40.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | and it's 'conveniently' mutually exclusive to all other possible options, so nobody can choose to opt out |
| 21:40.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless you spin an effort like devuan, which is for sure a massive and daunting task |
| 21:41.03 | _maniac_ | wnd: you should see nginx receiving signals in its error log. |
| 21:44.58 | _maniac_ | to be honest, integrated solution like systemd *sounds* good for small devices (like n900) where you might need its features like starting services waiting for dbus socket even before dbus. |
| 21:45.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | small devices benefit from modularization, not from monolithic monsters like systemd |
| 21:45.50 | _maniac_ | e.g. systemd would be good if it wasn't systemd - broken pile of code that works just enough of time to justify mass adoption. |
| 21:47.18 | KotCzarny | things in linux grow as a small projects, coexist with existent solutions, then if they are interesting/working/enough people consider them stable, get promoted into primary function doers |
| 21:47.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | I never thought messybox was a smart choice for maemo5 - but systemdoom is messybox^4 |
| 21:47.22 | KotCzarny | systemd was rushed |
| 21:47.41 | KotCzarny | and its pushed more and more down the linux community throat |
| 21:48.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | and yes, Nokia already messed up stuff with partitioning and mounting, regarding /usr. But with systemd that would have been mandatory |
| 21:48.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~optification |
| 21:48.49 | infobot | optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3" |
| 21:50.58 | _maniac_ | heh |
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| 21:56.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | this guy knows *exactly* what he's talking about: https://twitter.com/ascherbaum/status/771392009185718272 |
| 21:57.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | freedesktop, gnome and the systemd cabal have no damn clue about the concepts behind a decent OS like unix |
| 21:58.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | or maybe they even do and deliberately ignore any mandatory sane consequences since those don't match their own agenda |
| 21:59.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | unholy alliance between RH and Suse |
| 22:00.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | both crafting their long term business model for the next 30 years |
| 22:03.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | appshops backed by trusted computing and secure boot, on a system basically too complex for any single person to maintain it: |
| 22:03.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~systemd |
| 22:03.49 | infobot | systemd cabal: a bunch of people (Lennart Poettering, Kay Sievers, H. Hoyer, D. Mack, T. Gundersen, D. Herrmann) who want to turn linux into their wet dream perverted version of windows-me-too: http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html -- Rumor has it that 2016 systemd will have replaced kernel. See ~nosystemd" |
| 22:05.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>This is going to be a longer story, so better grab a cold bottle of Club Mate before you start reading.<< no, better grab a bottle of rum or vodka, you'll need it |
| 22:13.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | read >>* Since there are so many different distributions...<< and >>* The distributions are actually quite different...<< and >>* Developing software for a number of distributions and versions is hard...<< and >>* Since most downstream distributions have strict licensing and trademark requirements<< and you get an idea which idea of >"One Ring to rule them all..." and to make *our* (distro maintainers') life more easy, and let us earn |
| 22:13.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | truckloads of money< concept they're pursuing |
| 22:15.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually each single sentence is an insult: >>The toolbox approach of classic Linux distributions is fantastic for people who want to put together their individual system, nicely adjusted to exactly what they need. However, this is not really how many of today's Linux systems are built<< |
| 22:18.36 | _maniac_ | ok. I think it was asked before many times, but I wasn't there. How much effort is needed to turn maemo into a proper linux? |
| 22:18.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>you don't install or remove packages, you get a defined set of files, and besides installing or updating the system there are no ways how to change the set of tools you get.<< -- calling *this* a ``major use-case of Linux´´ makes me want to beat up somebody |
| 22:18.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | maemo IS proper linus |
| 22:19.00 | KotCzarny | maniac: define 'proper' |
| 22:19.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | linux even |
| 22:19.23 | _maniac_ | where I don't get surprised by files locations |
| 22:19.28 | _maniac_ | (at least) |
| 22:19.29 | KotCzarny | if you mean 'current' or 'updated to newest libs' it needs some things patched/RE in kernel |
| 22:19.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, I get surprised by file locations from ubuntu systems |
| 22:20.01 | KotCzarny | but applies to your case too, because right now its tied to some proprietary packages/drivers |
| 22:20.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | ls -lR /|less plus a rainy sunday afternoon and a huge pot of tea and cookies goes a looong way |
| 22:20.52 | _maniac_ | ok, yes. your 'define "proper"' makes me shut up and think. |
| 22:27.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | I thinl "proper" is pretty simple to define: just see how many lines-of-code (in percent of total) you need to change in arbitrary - say - debian packages to make them run on the system under test |
| 22:28.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | aiui you can compile >90% of debian packages with no changes at all and they'll just work under maemo |
| 22:28.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure you usually want to hildonize the GUI |
| 22:28.33 | KotCzarny | proper is sticking to *nix digma: do one thing, but do it perfect |
| 22:28.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | but I seem to recall I also have seen KDE running on N900 |
| 22:29.07 | KotCzarny | and building os from those little bits that work perfectly |
| 22:29.17 | Wizzup | I don't think KDE would be usable on a n900. |
| 22:29.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | usable is another cettle of fish |
| 22:30.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | tbh KDE was barely usable on my CF-27 with its 192MB RAM and a P-II300 |
| 22:31.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | was it running a proper linux? heck yes |
| 22:31.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | err CF-25 that been |
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