IRC log for #maemo on 20160708

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03:45.22Linkandzeldais it true that moving swap to sd card speeds up things? is there a way to test if the microsd is actually faster? i can imagine some cases were it would be a bottleneck
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06:48.47freemangordonLinkandzelda: yep, it is true. But make sure you have good SD card with fast random IO, like sammy pro cards
06:49.12KotCzarnyuh, wrong channel
06:49.24freemangordonhmm?
06:49.40KotCzarnyi've answered Linkandzelda on wrong channel
06:49.43KotCzarnyjust noticed
06:50.00freemangordonah :)
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09:49.00DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: Linkandzelda: http://paste.opensuse.org/43972960
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09:50.44DocScrutinizer05swap on uSD is _not_ per se faster than eMMC, it's a 4bit interface vs 8bit on eMMC and clock rate is comparable. What speeds up stuff is when you unebtangle storage access between swap and e.g. any read/write IO on rootfs
09:51.19DocScrutinizer05unentangle*
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09:55.42DocScrutinizer05what's also very relevant (and not at all focused in my simple tests above) is write performance which is highly dependent on controller strategy and architecture (how much buffer RAM, page size, handling of truncate for empty pages that don't need erase, **erase performance**, etc pp)
09:56.21DocScrutinizer05a page erase may take as long as 0.1s
09:57.26DocScrutinizer05so it's very desirable behavior when the controller does background page erase to always have a sufficient number of clean pages that can get written to without prior erase
09:58.34DocScrutinizer05idly wonders if maemo mounts the MMCs with "discard" option, if even the kernel knows that option already
09:59.26DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# mount|grep mmc
09:59.28DocScrutinizer05/dev/mmcblk0p2 on /home type ext3 (noatime,nodiratime,errors=continue,commit=1,data=writeback)
09:59.29DocScrutinizer05/dev/mmcblk0p1 on /home/user/MyDocs type vfat (rw,noatime,nodiratime,noauto,nodev,exec,nosuid,utf8,uid=29999,shortname=mixed,dmask=000,fmask=0000,rodir)
09:59.31DocScrutinizer05/dev/mmcblk1p2 on /media/mmc1p2 type ext3 (rw,noatime,nodiratime,noauto,nodev,exec,nosuid,data=writeback)
09:59.32DocScrutinizer05/dev/mmcblk1p1 on /media/mmc1 type vfat (rw,noatime,nodiratime,noauto,nodev,exec,nosuid,utf8,uid=29999,shortname=mixed,dmask=000,fmask=0000,rodir)
10:01.25DocScrutinizer05FFS! Linux IroN900 2.6.28-omap1  vs  https://wiki.ubuntuusers.de/SSD/TRIM/  >>Online Discard  ext4  Kernel 2.6.33<<
10:01.44DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: ^^^
10:03.09DocScrutinizer05Batched Discard   ext2, ext3,   Kernel 2.6.38
10:04.05DocScrutinizer05now THAT qualifies for a sound reason to finally update kernel in CSSU
10:15.24DocScrutinizer05I mean, flash storage without truncate/discard? a nogo
10:15.40DocScrutinizer05aka TRIM
10:18.26DocScrutinizer05freemangordon: http://www.sammypro.com/ ???
10:19.07DocScrutinizer05I still think genuine SanDisk are prolly the best cards
10:20.09DocScrutinizer05or are you talking about Samsung?
10:20.47DocScrutinizer05http://bgr.com/2016/07/07/fastest-256gb-microsd-card-samsung-ufs/
11:03.21*** join/#maemo peetah (~peetah@cha92-9-82-236-202-86.fbx.proxad.net)
11:04.32*** join/#maemo Bitnotri (~Bitnotri@user-94-254-163-249.play-internet.pl)
11:10.52BitnotriSo guys I'm coming back to n900 after a long hiatus. I love writing notes on it and that's mainly what I've been doing with it, making it my ultra-portable journal.
11:11.20BitnotriHowever in the past I used to read books, browse web and have a wide array of apps on it which are no longer usable
11:11.36BitnotriWhat should I do to make n900 run as smoothly as possible in 2016?
11:12.01BitnotriWhat OS is the best to put on n900 right now?
11:15.10zGrrHarmattan+CSSU
11:15.21BitnotriThanks
11:15.54DocScrutinizer05harmattan? hardly
11:16.08DocScrutinizer05Bitnotri:
11:16.10DocScrutinizer05~cssu
11:16.11infoboti heard cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU, or (Community Seamless Software Update)
11:16.39BitnotriWhat would you say is the best option DocScrutinizer05?
11:16.42DocScrutinizer05Bitnotri: forget harmattan
11:16.51DocScrutinizer05Bitnotri: see above
11:17.59DocScrutinizer05a fresh reflash often also works wonders
11:18.06BitnotriWhat about some projects such as DebianN900?
11:18.13DocScrutinizer05what about it?
11:18.30BitnotriWould it be a better option?
11:18.38DocScrutinizer05depends
11:18.55DocScrutinizer05I don't see any advantage over a easydeb chroot
11:18.58BitnotriWhat factors should I consider?
11:20.03DocScrutinizer05there's no other OS release than maemo fremantle that's better adapted to support every aspect of the hw platform
11:20.22BitnotriI've reflashed my device in the past, tried to install those community ssus. I may have done the job wrong, however the problems I've head previously with the web browser in particular didn't disappear. It may be different now so it may be worth the shot
11:20.58BitnotriHave you tried harmattan or other distributions? How did you like it?
11:20.58DocScrutinizer05web brosing nowadays is a task that even i5 PC with 8GB RAM can suck
11:21.21DocScrutinizer05that's not the browsers' fault but the culprit are idiot "webdesigners"
11:21.43BitnotriYeah, but even stripped of css and js would be good
11:21.45DocScrutinizer05harmattan doesn't work on N900
11:22.02BitnotriPeriod?
11:22.09DocScrutinizer05a complete wrong hint
11:22.31DocScrutinizer05maemo harmattan is for Nokia N9, NOT N900
11:22.53Bitnotriwhat do you think about debian900?
11:23.08DocScrutinizer05nothing, I never seen a reason to try it
11:23.41BitnotriOk, thanks. Would it be hard to reverse if I tried it?
11:24.10DocScrutinizer05_if_ I needed to run apps than can't run under plain Fremantle since they need nifty new features only found in newer debian versions, I'd go for a easydeb chroot for that purpose
11:24.33DocScrutinizer05reverse?
11:24.39DocScrutinizer05you mean go back to maemo?
11:24.44BitnotriYup
11:24.49DocScrutinizer05baby simple, do
11:24.56DocScrutinizer05~lazyflashing
11:24.56infobotlazyflashing is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware#The_Lazy_Approach
11:25.15DocScrutinizer05you also could install dualboot via uBoot
11:25.29DocScrutinizer05to have debian and maemo as boottime alternatives
11:25.45BitnotriOk, thanks for all the help, I've got a lot of reading and installing to do :)
11:25.56DocScrutinizer05yw :-)
11:26.54DocScrutinizer05note that with backupmenu you also can create comprehensive backup of your complete maemo system, to roll back to that very state later on
11:27.00DocScrutinizer05~bm
11:27.00infobotrumour has it, backupmenu is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975, or one-click install handling dependency issues: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/et_al/HAM-catalogs/BM.install
11:27.33BitnotriOh, that seems really useful. Thank you ;)
11:27.39DocScrutinizer05yw :-)
11:28.06DocScrutinizer05also not
11:28.12DocScrutinizer05~multiboot
11:28.12infobotwell, multiboot is http://maemo.org/packages/view/multiboot/, or **DEPRECATED*, see ~maemo-multiboot
11:28.21DocScrutinizer05~maemo-multiboot
11:28.22infobotit has been said that maemo-multiboot is deprecated, and a horrible hack.  PROBLEMS WITH NITDROID/MULTIBOOT? reflash rootfs&kernel aka COMBINED
11:28.52DocScrutinizer05also note*  but what I wrote was as good ;-)
11:29.14DocScrutinizer05maybe useful, unless you never touched cmdline:
11:29.18DocScrutinizer05~jrtools
11:29.18infobotit has been said that jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools
11:30.02BitnotriNah, I'm an active ubuntu user so I can handle cli ;)
11:30.03DocScrutinizer05for CSSU I recommend Testing
11:30.45DocScrutinizer05don't go for cssu-thumb until you learned what exactly it is and which are the implications of using it
11:30.53Bitnotriok
11:31.25DocScrutinizer05~uboot
11:31.26infobotN900 uBoot is a siamese twin binary [uBoot+stockMaemoKernel] that resides in kernel NAND partition /dev/mtd3 aka "kernel". You can't uninstall it, rather you'll nuke it when you flash/install another kernel like stock maemo kernel or powerkernel. To start other than stock maemo kernel via uBoot, you have to provide the according kernel image files, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81613
11:32.46DocScrutinizer05and yes, you might be interested in powerkernel, when you want to go fancy with your N900
11:33.17DocScrutinizer05it comes with support for a lot of goodies like ext4, netfilters, whatnot else
11:33.39DocScrutinizer05~kp
11:33.39infobotrumour has it, kp is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94287
11:33.54BitnotriWould powerkernel help with n900 performance?
11:34.00DocScrutinizer05not much
11:34.11DocScrutinizer05cssu will help
11:35.19Bitnotridid you overclock your n900?
11:35.37DocScrutinizer05just 2h ago I noticed N900 kernel do4esn't support TRIM for flash storage, which is a terrible flaw regarding performance, especially for swap
11:35.44DocScrutinizer05nope
11:35.52DocScrutinizer05overclocking is basically useless
11:36.08BitnotriYeah, so I thought
11:36.16DocScrutinizer05you can overclock less than factor 2 which is still almost worthless for user experience
11:36.36DocScrutinizer05and the real performance hogs are swap
11:36.57DocScrutinizer05and generally RAM shortage and storage IO bottleneck
11:37.01BitnotriCan anything be done about it?
11:37.18DocScrutinizer05get a Neo900 ;-) - in 9 months
11:37.32DocScrutinizer05thumb helps about RAM shortage a bit
11:37.36DocScrutinizer05~thumb
11:37.36infobotsomebody said cssu-thumb was <Doc_Scrutinizer05> [thumb2 microb] indeed seems to render like mad, subjectively, or http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1220597, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Thumb
11:38.10DocScrutinizer05thumb code is significantly smaller than ARM instruction set
11:38.13Bitnotrineo900 seems like won't come out at all, it's been moving so slow for such a long time
11:38.28DocScrutinizer05yes, it's hurting me
11:38.41DocScrutinizer05we suffer one roadblock after the other
11:39.34BitnotriSuch it is without a major support
11:39.35DocScrutinizer05now Nikolaus declared ultimate bail out on PCB layout, so the complete workflow and toolchain needs a redesign/re-evaluation
11:40.19DocScrutinizer05we're this very moment pondering to migrate fron cadsoft eagle to KiCad
11:41.02BitnotriSo you're actively working on neo900?
11:41.02DocScrutinizer05as if there were no other urgent tasks pending
11:41.06DocScrutinizer05sure
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11:42.03DocScrutinizer05http://irclog.whitequark.org/neo900/2016-07-07  and https://neo900.org/git/?p=misc;a=log;pg=1
11:48.07DocScrutinizer05Bitnotri: feel free to /join #neo900
11:49.15BitnotriOk, I'm just not sure if I'd be able to contribute anything :P
11:49.21DocScrutinizer05np
11:49.31DocScrutinizer05every lurker is welcome too
11:51.00DocScrutinizer05actually considering that IRC #neo900 is our most up-to-date and realtime communication channel with the highest traffic, I'm happy about each prospect customer having a look in there to notice the project is not entirely dead
11:51.32BitnotriOk, I'll definitely check it out then
11:51.44BitnotriDoes any web browser work reasonably well on your n900?
11:51.53DocScrutinizer05we suck terribly on lack of a decent communications officer who could update the webpage with new info, answer threads in forum and email, etc
11:52.08DocScrutinizer05(browser) tbh nope
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11:52.40DocScrutinizer05it's sufficent for important selected tasks like online banking, checking my share-service at maemo.cloud-7.de etc
11:53.15DocScrutinizer05but then I'm possibly not the right person to ask since I'm not much html-centric at all
11:53.44DocScrutinizer05I use xterm more often than microB (or any browser), on N900
11:53.58Bitnotriok
11:54.20Sicelomicrob good enough for me. i don't really use any other browser
11:54.37DocScrutinizer05for a quick fixing of the WLAN modem router in my favorite pub, when the owner messed it op one more, microB is just sufficently working
11:55.00DocScrutinizer05Sicelo: same here
11:55.43Siceloalso supports client certificates just fine .. haven't found another one on N900 that has that :)
11:55.56DocScrutinizer05watching YT videos is something I'm actually missing. Evcen while I learned now there's cutetube2
11:56.31BitnotriOh I remember that app, it was really nice
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11:58.30DocScrutinizer05- on a completely unrelated sidenote - points at (http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/session-log_enable-catalogs_README.txt and) http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/sbin/enable-catalogs
11:58.43Siceloit still works fine Bitnotri (cutetube2)
11:58.43DocScrutinizer05ooh, and ~jrrepos
11:58.51DocScrutinizer05~jrrepos
11:58.51infobotrumour has it, jrrepos is http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/et_al/HAM-catalogs/
11:58.54Sicelothen again .. i'm not big on YT either
12:12.04LinkandzeldaDocScrutinizer05: thanks for the test. i have a 32gb sandisk pro xchc uhs1 or something. will look into moving swap to it and see what happens. i noticed when streaming internet radio the device slows down a whole lot and i get the feeling its swaping a lot
12:13.25Sicelowhat bit rates for your streams? mine doesn't slow down
12:15.41DocScrutinizer05iotop ftw
12:15.56DocScrutinizer05iotop and htop
12:16.10LinkandzeldaSicelo: 192 kbps
12:16.26Linkandzeldawhen streaming it shows puleaudio using between 14-20% cpu
12:16.40DocScrutinizer05yeah, pukeaudio sucks
12:18.32Linkandzeldaand of course battery drops massive
12:18.47DocScrutinizer05Linkandzelda: note that N900 neither can use UHS nor xdhc
12:19.15Linkandzeldadidnt think so, but it would it be able to use the standard functionalities right?
12:19.23DocScrutinizer05but odds are a UHS capable uSD is actually fast enough to run at max speed N900 can do
12:19.29DocScrutinizer05yes
12:19.38Linkandzeldamy thoughts too
12:19.52Linkandzeldaand is it safe for me to run the same tests you just did?
12:20.00DocScrutinizer05iirc that would be 40MHz clock at 4bit bus width
12:20.14DocScrutinizer05yes
12:20.29DocScrutinizer05those tests are considered safe by me
12:20.33DocScrutinizer05no warranty
12:21.13DocScrutinizer05my uSD is actually a little dusty already
12:21.21DocScrutinizer05might easily be 6 years old
12:21.38Linkandzeldaive got another process using cpu here
12:21.53DocScrutinizer05**kill it**  hehehe
12:22.05Linkandzeldamafw-dbus-wrapper mafw-gst-renderer
12:22.15DocScrutinizer05that's audio playback
12:22.36Linkandzeldausing between 7-14% cpu
12:22.58Linkandzeldaleaving the average while streaming and doing nothing being 50% usage, thats high i guess
12:23.05DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/35212726
12:23.24Linkandzeldai see
12:24.21DocScrutinizer05http://wstaw.org/m/2016/07/08/plasma-desktophc2277.png
12:24.46DocScrutinizer05that's idle system
12:25.13DocScrutinizer05during audio playback mafw and polypaudio will be CPU hogs
12:25.25Linkandzeldaany tweaks for pulse?
12:26.24DocScrutinizer05all tweaks so far fired back afaik
12:26.53Linkandzeldaah, shame
12:26.55Linkandzeldawell its ok
12:26.55DocScrutinizer05recompiling that shit without debug output might help a little
12:27.39Linkandzeldacan you explain what those dd commands are doing exactly?
12:27.42DocScrutinizer05many peaple tried to fix suspected flaws in PA, it necer panned out to the better iirc
12:28.27DocScrutinizer05dd copies raw chunks of 1Mbyte data from physical device (if=) to nirvana (of=/dev/null)
12:28.45*** join/#maemo Oksanaa (~Wikiwide@Maemo/community/ex-council/Wikiwide)
12:29.09DocScrutinizer05no partitions, no filesystem involved. Using raw IO without buffering (iflag=direct)
12:31.09DocScrutinizer05without iflag=direct you still will see effects from regular filesystem buffering which may hold parts of the data to read in RAM buffers
12:31.40DocScrutinizer05at least all this is how I hipe stuff works ;-)
12:31.44DocScrutinizer05hope*
12:32.14Linkandzeldafair enough, as long as there is no loss then thats all that matters, right hehe
12:32.16DocScrutinizer05you may go for larger amount of test data, with count=500 or even 1000
12:32.40DocScrutinizer05multiply by bLOCKsIZE= which is 1 Mbyte
12:33.08DocScrutinizer05so bs=1M count=1000 will read 1GB data
12:33.22OksanaaWhat's up with kernel-power upgrade? /just curious, aptitude does not cite changelog/
12:33.48DocScrutinizer05same for bs=1000M count=1, but that might allocate insane size of program internal buffer in RAM
12:34.40DocScrutinizer05Oksanaa: is there any new update supposed to be around?
12:35.05OksanaaWell, I just did aptitude update upgrade and got it
12:35.50DocScrutinizer05then maybe that's a good instance why you shouldn't do upgrade ;-)
12:36.02*** join/#maemo fishbulb (~fishbulb@unaffiliated/fishbulb)
12:36.17fishbulbhey I've got some version of fmms that doesn't work
12:37.10LinkandzeldaDocScrutinizer05: on an off note, when i type "root" and enter pass, it seems to put me in busybox, since dd gave a syntax error and mention busybox. after i typed "bash" then tried dd again its working as expected. ive got shells set in /etc/passwd for both user and root to /bin/bash. any way i can fix that issue?
12:37.12Oksanaahmm, how so? /cssu-thumb-testing if it helps/ fmms? cool, let's check if I have it installed, did once half-receive mms with it
12:37.32DocScrutinizer05idly curses his current IRC client version that doesn't (yet) support notes attached to users
12:37.52fishbulbI think it came from a dev repo
12:39.11LinkandzeldaDocScrutinizer05: or actually not, it seems to put me in bash the first time but still references the dd binary from busybox, or something, im not sure
12:39.30DocScrutinizer05Linkandzelda: tbh I never bothered. I always considered it safer and not sufficently annoying to stray from doing "root; bash" each time I log in
12:39.35Oksanaahas fmms installed, yes
12:39.49fishbulbok but it won't be the same as mine
12:39.55DocScrutinizer05Linkandzelda: `which dd`
12:39.55Linkandzeldai see
12:40.11fishbulbis KotCzarny here?
12:40.18fishbulbhe wrote fmms right
12:40.20Oksanaafishbulb: fmms 1.3.4, according to dpkg
12:40.30LinkandzeldaDocScrutinizer05: /bin/dd
12:40.35DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# which dd
12:40.37DocScrutinizer05/usr/bin/gnu/dd
12:41.08DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# ls -l /bin/dd
12:41.10DocScrutinizer05lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 7 2014-12-06 12:39 /bin/dd -> busybox
12:41.18Linkandzeldawhy lol
12:41.21Linkandzeldahttp://pastebin.com/K0CPa3cd
12:41.24DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# echo $PATH
12:41.25DocScrutinizer05/usr/local/sbin:/usr/local/bin:/usr/sbin/gnu:/usr/sbin:/usr/bin/gnu:/usr/bin:/sbin:/bin:/usr/bin/X11
12:41.38OksanaaKotCzarny was idle for 5h 52min, so should return soon-ish
12:42.02Linkandzeldaoh seems im missing stuff in path
12:42.08DocScrutinizer05no, frals wrote fmms
12:42.16DocScrutinizer05that's where the 'f' is from
12:42.30fishbulbhistory is fascinating
12:42.43fishbulbis frals ever here?
12:42.57DocScrutinizer05o.O
12:43.25DocScrutinizer05pro hint: TAB usually does nick completion
12:43.42fishbulbbut here as in present
12:44.12DocScrutinizer05/whois frals
12:44.23Oksanaafrals: was  idle     : 5 days 15 hours 35 mins 58 secs
12:45.02fishbulbyerp.
12:45.42OksanaaSend email to Nick Leppänen Larsson, aka frals .of the mysterious. frals .dot. se ?
12:46.04fishbulbnah
12:46.13DocScrutinizer05however please don't expect to get a reasonable response to >>hey I've got some version of fmms that doesn't work<< which isn't even any question
12:46.28fishbulbI'm already not going to bother him by email
12:47.12DocScrutinizer05Linkandzelda: about "missing in PATH" see ~jrtools
12:47.20DocScrutinizer05.bashrc in there
12:47.57DocScrutinizer05though you're of course free to pick any other approach to set the PATH of your liking
12:48.22OksanaaOkay... Maybe, find something specific on how it misworks. Haven't tried to fmms myself, though. Have enough cellular-provider troubles without it
12:48.34DocScrutinizer05actually I probably shouldn't recommend doing that for user:user .bashrc
12:49.13DocScrutinizer05using any other than messybox as default shell for user:user is known to have potential to fubar your system
12:49.36DocScrutinizer05so does changing default PATH for user
12:50.12DocScrutinizer05there are a few messybox-isms in the xinit or whatever, that possibly lead to a bootloop
12:50.39DocScrutinizer05funny enough only for user, not for root
12:50.55LinkandzeldaDocScrutinizer05: yea i have that .bashrc, but its weird
12:51.08Linkandzeldawhen connecting via ssh/loading xterm it doesnt use it
12:51.31DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/75522475
12:51.44DocScrutinizer05ssh uses other login method
12:52.05Linkandzeldacan i find where the .bashrc it uses is at?
12:52.14Linkandzeldasince i get the same behaviour from xterm
12:53.25DocScrutinizer05it's a nice exercise for an afternoon to read through the manpages for bash, shell, login, ssh(d) etc, to figure which startscripts are used with which shell and type of login
12:53.58Linkandzeldafair enough
12:54.24DocScrutinizer05I was pretty surprised to find messybox source .bashrc
12:54.55DocScrutinizer05which sucks in so many regards
12:55.11DocScrutinizer05well, in short: messybox sucks
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12:55.20DocScrutinizer05~messybox
12:55.21infobotmessy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd, nice, ps, diff as used by mc...) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils
12:56.27DocScrutinizer05thus busybox-power is a pretty incorrect approach
12:57.16DocScrutinizer05and I strongly deprecate busybox-power
12:57.20LinkandzeldaDocScrutinizer05: found what the "root" script does, sudo gainroot --use-su
12:57.33DocScrutinizer05yes
12:58.00DocScrutinizer05and gainroot is funny too
12:58.01LinkandzeldaHISTFILE=/root/.ash_history /bin/sh
12:58.10Linkandzeldaits got a typo in /usr/bin/gainroot ?
12:58.24DocScrutinizer05no, why?
12:58.34Linkandzeldait should be bash_history i thought
12:58.45DocScrutinizer05no, please not
12:58.52Linkandzeldai see now it has its own path here in gainroot
12:59.35DocScrutinizer05I'm more than happy with "bash" being the _only_ entry in ~/ash_history
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13:00.20OksanaaOld kernel version: 2.6.28.10-power51, and new one is power53. What the difference?
13:00.29DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/93685597
13:00.39DocScrutinizer05~kp
13:00.40infobothmm... kp is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94287
13:01.11Linkandzeldais it dangerious to edit the PATH in /usr/sbin/gainroot ?
13:01.36DocScrutinizer05yes, possibly
13:02.27DocScrutinizer05some fubar packages may depend on gainroot
13:04.02Linkandzeldawould just like to add the paths you have from your regular path so it can pick up the non-bb dd
13:06.23DocScrutinizer05try it, but I strongly recommend to do a BM backup prior to that
13:06.32Linkandzeldaok i will do that
13:06.57DocScrutinizer05so you could restore the original gainroot file if shit hits the fan
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13:07.27DocScrutinizer05well, for that purpose prolly any old backup will do#
13:07.54DocScrutinizer05as long as you restore only the gainroot file
13:09.17DocScrutinizer05Linkandzelda: you know all gnu cmds * are also available via /usr/bin/g*
13:09.23DocScrutinizer05gdd in this case
13:09.51DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# which gdd
13:09.53DocScrutinizer05/usr/bin/gdd
13:09.54DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# ll `which gdd`
13:09.56DocScrutinizer05lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 6 2014-12-06 12:40 /usr/bin/gdd -> gnu/dd
13:10.16Linkandzeldayes, but i'll forget to use g too often
13:10.24DocScrutinizer05it sucks :-)
13:12.11OksanaaOuch... Is it that difficult for maemo repositories to upgrade perl to something higher than 5.8? /just trying to install mosh/
13:14.23Oksanaashould someday just go and feed various source packages into auto-builder. Well, they may need optification beforehand...
13:16.07OksanaaHas no gui > needs minimum of modification. But optification is really necessary
13:17.16DocScrutinizer05optification can get done semi-automatically
13:18.52DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# maemo-optify-
13:18.53DocScrutinizer05maemo-optify-auto-opt.sh        maemo-optify-firstboot.sh       maemo-optify-lib.sh             maemo-optify-make-mountbind.sh
13:20.28DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# less `which maemo-optify-auto-opt.sh `
13:20.30DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# less /etc/maemo-optify-auto-opt.conf
13:22.19OksanaaIs it recommended to put "/usr/bin" in here? Why not?
13:23.03DocScrutinizer05because that's exactly the way to nuke your system
13:24.19DocScrutinizer05everything in /usr/bin/ that's not a symlink is probably there because it must not get optified
13:24.36DocScrutinizer05~optification
13:24.36infobotoptification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR,  http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3"
13:25.39DocScrutinizer05everything in /usr/bin/ that's not a symlink is probably also something that should have been installed in /bin instead of /usr/bin to start with
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13:26.18DocScrutinizer05dunno which fool decided to pit stuff needed during early boot into /usr/*
13:26.23Oksanaagrumbles that qtoctave should have no problems being optified
13:26.23DocScrutinizer05put*
13:27.38DocScrutinizer05it's clearly a duty of the distro maintainers to move stuff from /usr/bin to /bin when it is needed during early boot. See FHS
13:28.46OksanaaHmm, would be nice. What open-source packages are used during early boot and have things in /usr/bin or /usr/sbin?
13:30.43DocScrutinizer05it's plain ridiculous to first build stuff for --prefix=/usr/bin, then go "OMG!! we need that during early boot, so let's move /usr/bin to rootfs where it's available during early boot. Then we optify everything in /usr/bin that is _not_ needed "
13:31.16DocScrutinizer05((What open-source packages are used during early boot and have things in /usr/bin or /usr/sbin?)) check for symlinks
13:31.36DocScrutinizer05everything not a symlink is incorrectly put into /usr/
13:33.58DocScrutinizer05find /usr/bin -type f -ls
13:34.33DocScrutinizer05vs   find /usr/bin -type l -ls
13:34.51OksanaaLet's see : Calendar.launch (closed-source?), mceledpattern (! totally not needed for boot ?)
13:35.41DocScrutinizer05pukes at /usr/bin/setkeycodes -> /bin/busybox
13:36.04DocScrutinizer05though it's prolly even formally ok
13:37.35Oksanaafmtx_client , and I should move my personal /usr/bin/randomscripts elsewhere (like, into aliases in /etc/profile or something)
13:37.38DocScrutinizer05mceledpattern is only 35k
13:37.54DocScrutinizer05which is a candidate for optification, but not mandatory
13:38.44Oksanaax11vnc and qtoctave are huge, around 1MB each?
13:39.15OksanaaXorg and python2.5, too
13:39.20DocScrutinizer05http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs  >>Developers are encouraged to make good use of them, specially for applications requiring more than 500 KB, including dependencies.<< err *cough*
13:39.44DocScrutinizer05Oksanaa: huh?
13:40.10DocScrutinizer05you won't go happy with optifying python or X11
13:40.38Oksanaax11vnc is not needed for boot, is it?
13:40.43DocScrutinizer05nope
13:41.03DocScrutinizer05but Xorg is, I guess
13:41.10DocScrutinizer05python 2.5 too
13:41.16OksanaaXorg is system-needed, though. Not going to move it around on my device
13:41.51DocScrutinizer05also python *is* optified afaik
13:42.09DocScrutinizer05it comes with its own otification by bindmount
13:42.22Oksanaa-rwxr-xr-x    1 root     root       1028632 May 18  2010 python2.5
13:42.34DocScrutinizer05mount|grep py
13:43.27Oksanaalib python is optified, bin isn't
13:44.35DocScrutinizer05yep, right:  df -h `which python2.5`
13:45.22Oksanaa# ls -laSr /usr/bin/ | grep -v lrwx < the command I used for looking at not-optified /usr/bin
13:45.53DocScrutinizer05hmmm
13:46.07DocScrutinizer05why not find /usr/bin -type l -ls
13:48.24Oksanaafind doesn't like the options, just prints out Usage
13:48.33DocScrutinizer05err -type f
13:48.44DocScrutinizer05meh, get decent tools!
13:48.49DocScrutinizer05~messybox
13:48.57infobotmessy... err busybox is meant for lean scripting. Regarding all the missing options and immanent limitations (see su, passwd, nice, ps, diff as used by mc...) it's not really the interactive shell of choice. A lot of people hate busybox because a lot of system integrators don't understand the difference between busybox and a decent user interactive shell plus unix utils
13:49.40DocScrutinizer05apt-get findutils
13:50.08DocScrutinizer05apt-get install findutils-gnu; even
13:50.44DocScrutinizer05X-P  -->
13:50.46DocScrutinizer05IroN900:~# apt-cache search findutil
13:50.47DocScrutinizer05busybox - Tiny utilities for small and embedded systems
13:50.49DocScrutinizer05findutils-gnu - utilities for finding files--find, xargs
13:51.14DocScrutinizer05"Tiny SILLY FUBAR utilities..."
13:51.34Oksanaahas findutils-gnu installed
13:52.01DocScrutinizer05then maybe try gfind /usr/bin -type f -ls
13:52.13DocScrutinizer05or fix your PATH
13:54.08OksanaaWorks, gfind. Output fairly same. So, x11vnc, qtoctave, and qtjs and gpg and some others
13:54.36Oksanaafinds the file list to be long
13:56.05OksanaaCould they be added to this /etc/maemo-optify-auto-opt.conf ? And when would it apply?
13:57.12Oksanaawould only try x11vnc and qtoctave, for start; do not recognise others well enough
13:59.02Oksanaaosso_pdfviewer, modest and mediaplayer also catch eye
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14:07.46DocScrutinizer05((Could they be added)) basically yes  ((when would it apply)) during next boot -- however it may render your device locked in a bootloop
14:10.24DocScrutinizer05suggests to profile boot process to find all the binaries needed during early boot (before mounting /opt) and then doing a major sanitation of this whole mess: move needed packages /usr/*7* -> /*/*, move /usr -> eMMC
14:11.22DocScrutinizer05I honestly had hoped for *NOKIA* doing that with pr1.3, but nooooo
14:13.25DocScrutinizer05ponders to write maemo-antioptify* which does the exact opposite of optify: move all packages from /usr/?bin/* to /?bin/* that are _not_ subject to optification
14:14.39DocScrutinizer05create symlinks for all those packages in the mointpoint dir of /usr, for best measure.
14:15.14DocScrutinizer05once /usr gets mounted, those symlinks would get covered
14:16.02DocScrutinizer05we could have similar symlinks in /usr/*/ for any scripts that use absolute paths to commands
14:18.57DocScrutinizer05could all get handled during early boot, immediately before /usr gets mounted to its final mointpoint dir, in that maemo-antioptify-auto-noopt.sh script
14:20.31DocScrutinizer05mount /usr /to /mnt/usr so you can copy the needed binaries from /user/?bin|lib|whatnot to rootfs and create symlinks in /mnt/usr/*/* and /usr/*/*
14:20.42DocScrutinizer05s/copy/move
14:21.21DocScrutinizer05then remount eMMC usr from /mnt/usr to /usr
14:22.13DocScrutinizer05finally delete antioptify-auto-noopt.sh (selfdestruct ;-D ) since it's never again needed
14:22.49DocScrutinizer05replace maemo-optify-auto-opt.sh by a oneliner:  #!/bin/sh
14:23.03DocScrutinizer05since that is also not needed anymore from now on
14:23.58DocScrutinizer05optification my ass!
14:25.30DocScrutinizer05I had a reason to add ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"" to the ~optification factoid
14:34.26OksanaaTroublesome, especially from deb-dpkg-file-tracking point of view. Will these packages be easy to upgrade, after such filesystem movements?
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19:14.45Siceloi'm happy .. i know i could have bought a better battery via ebay, but that's really out of my reach
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22:57.42fralssomeone pinged? ^^
23:10.27DocScrutinizer05frals: yeah, somebody claimed to have a "not working fmms version". nevermind I'd say
23:11.41DocScrutinizer05I didn't hear any question at all, anybody could answer
23:13.32DocScrutinizer05frals: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2016-07-08.log.html#t2016-07-08T15:36:17
23:15.49DocScrutinizer05http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2016-07-08.log.html#t2016-07-08T15:46:12
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