| 00:57.11 | *** join/#maemo RedW (~redw@89-76-164-87.dynamic.chello.pl) |
| 01:03.15 | *** join/#maemo fishbulb (~fishbulb@unaffiliated/fishbulb) |
| 01:03.26 | fishbulb | hey, how do I connect bluetooth data to a nexus 7 tablet? |
| 01:03.29 | fishbulb | using an n900 |
| 01:03.39 | fishbulb | the PAN method is for nokia to nokia |
| 01:08.07 | *** join/#maemo Oksana (~chatzilla@Maemo/community/ex-council/Wikiwide) |
| 01:09.52 | *** join/#maemo SpeedEvil (~quassel@tor/regular/SpeedEvil) |
| 01:11.24 | *** join/#maemo flo_lap (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 01:18.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah, PAN is for $device to $device, with the instructions for Nokia being one of those devices |
| 01:19.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~pan |
| 01:19.57 | infobot | pan is probably https://wiki.maemo.org/Bluetooth_PAN |
| 01:20.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | you prolly want to use N900 in DUN mode as modem though |
| 01:21.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://wiki.maemo.org/Bluetooth_DUN |
| 01:22.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>if the N900 has net access itself, another Bluetooth-equipped device (such as a PC or laptop) may use it as a modem. In this case it plays the role of the mobile phone in the previous scenarios, and act as a Bluetooth DUN server<< |
| 01:25.06 | sunshavi | imo; PAN is betterthan DUN, PAN works from maemo to droid |
| 01:25.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | PAN is not really supported on N900 afaik, with N900 as server |
| 01:26.03 | sunshavi | it works for me |
| 01:26.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, maybe I'm mistaken: >>If you have Nokia N900 you may instead use it as PAN server to allow an other device such as a Nokia N8x0 to utilize Bluetooth PAN.<< |
| 01:26.28 | sunshavi | even i use n900 as panu, but with merlin bluez-utils |
| 01:27.06 | sunshavi | and the cssu kernel |
| 01:27.52 | sunshavi | panu does not work on pr 1.3 |
| 01:28.07 | sunshavi | it is a kernel issue |
| 01:28.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, PAN needs iptables which isn't available on stock kernel. That's why I suggest DUN |
| 01:29.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | DUN should work pretty much OOTB |
| 01:29.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | or rather, just needs a package installed |
| 01:29.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://wiki.maemo.org/Bluetooth_DUN#Bluetooth_DUN_server |
| 01:30.07 | sunshavi | nice, 4 me pan is the way to go |
| 01:31.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | for the nexus 7 prolly https://wiki.maemo.org/Debian-Tethering is the page to go to |
| 01:33.12 | sunshavi | as n800 have PAN also. I have never tried DUN. n900 is better than n800 that's my logic |
| 01:33.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | the difference is: PAN creates a true router on N900 and shares the GPRS internet. DUN simply exposes a modem via a sort of virtual serial connection and the N900 itself is completely out of the scope |
| 01:34.04 | sunshavi | n800 does not have GPRS :) |
| 01:34.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | obviously a complete router is way more complex than a simple export of a virtual TTY |
| 01:34.24 | sunshavi | but it let's You share ur wifi |
| 01:34.37 | *** join/#maemo Defiant (erik@x4e366862.dyn.telefonica.de) |
| 01:34.48 | sunshavi | or better said the n800 wifi connection |
| 01:34.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | share wifi via BT, what weird usecase it *that*? |
| 01:35.52 | sunshavi | that's what for those devices have been made |
| 01:36.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | huh? |
| 01:36.31 | sunshavi | even droid's let's do that easy |
| 01:36.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | so? I still don't see what anybody would need that for |
| 01:37.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | any BT device that needs internet also has WLAN |
| 01:37.46 | sunshavi | again battery life my friend. that's rule # one. increase battery life |
| 01:37.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | ohmy |
| 01:39.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd need to see a decent evaluation of any supposed battery savings by using BT PAN instead WLAN |
| 01:39.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | don't by that blindly |
| 01:39.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | buy* |
| 01:39.28 | sunshavi | then. It is not a weird use case. It saves a lot tested here on field camp |
| 01:39.54 | sunshavi | BT doubles battery life compared with wifi |
| 01:40.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | o.O |
| 01:40.16 | sunshavi | test it whenever u need. I have done It |
| 01:40.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, I'm not going to even test that |
| 01:41.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | I have heard no arguments that make think there'sd a big diffetrence between active WLAN and active BT regarding battery consumption |
| 01:42.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's known that an unpaired WLAN scanning for APs needs a lot of power |
| 01:42.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | but a paired and connected WLAN is rather humble |
| 01:44.30 | Oksana | Well, a problem starts when WiFi likes to disconnect randomly, and then search for networks again to re-connect |
| 01:44.36 | sunshavi | ok. I have tested it here listening internet streams |
| 01:44.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | as a ballpark figure: I can leave my N900 for maybe a week in standby with established ssh session via WLAN, from one battery |
| 01:44.47 | Oksana | Nice :-D |
| 01:45.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | prolly longer |
| 01:45.03 | sunshavi | try it that way |
| 01:46.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, as stated above WLAN searching for APs is a power hog |
| 01:46.34 | *** join/#maemo eMHa__ (~mh@p54B0FAEE.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 01:47.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | on both N900 and N8x0 |
| 01:48.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | so the BT PAN is just a very sophisticated powerpack to provide the WLAN energy from a auxilary battery |
| 01:48.27 | sunshavi | DocScrutinizer05: mmmm? |
| 01:49.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | you prolly could get longer active time per same weight when you use such a powerbank for your primary device and use WLAN instead of BT PANM and a WLAN server |
| 01:50.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | you save all the energy for BT and the second system with CPU and RAM and all |
| 01:50.51 | sunshavi | DocScrutinizer05: I am not understanding your statement. BT_PAN is equivalent to WLAN. But client devices have wifi-card turned off |
| 01:51.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | use a powerbank instead that BT<->WLAN extender |
| 01:51.36 | sunshavi | wifi, has more range (it needs more power). Just simple math |
| 01:51.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | same weight -> longer standby |
| 01:52.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh, sorry I fail to explain my rationale |
| 01:53.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | I just can say that simple math doesn't apply to electronics |
| 01:54.13 | sunshavi | then facts, do not try an idle conn but an active then |
| 01:54.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, I also fail to read you |
| 01:55.31 | sunshavi | ur probably test case is an idle ssh connection. try an active one play a multimedia file on the device |
| 01:56.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | I won't try anything since I know the max TX of WLAN is 100mW which means that it could theoretically run for 40h continuous(!) TX from one battery, in N900 |
| 01:56.08 | sunshavi | from the web |
| 01:56.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | THAT is simple math in electronics |
| 01:57.29 | sunshavi | is not just that processor and dsp are consuming energy too |
| 01:58.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, exactly, they do, in your BT<->WLAN device |
| 01:58.07 | sunshavi | add to that the speaker |
| 01:58.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | for nothing |
| 01:58.36 | sunshavi | BT consumes less power check it out on the specs |
| 01:58.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | attach the battery of BT<->WLAN device directly to your primary device instead and profit |
| 01:59.03 | sunshavi | wlan is turned off on client devices |
| 01:59.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | dude, I'm an EE, don't tell me to check anything in the specs |
| 01:59.24 | fishbulb | I use powerkernel anyway |
| 01:59.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | headdesks |
| 01:59.48 | fishbulb | you mean you've always been an engineer or you had to learn a lot for this neo900 project |
| 02:00.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | when you think anybody could start such a project to *learn* how to do EE, then good luck |
| 02:00.50 | fishbulb | and no, wifi hoses the battery, 40h is an absurd overestimation |
| 02:01.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | blablabla |
| 02:01.58 | fishbulb | I did mech and electronic engineering, I think you're going to lose your mind when the percentage of dead boards come in |
| 02:02.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think you're posing |
| 02:02.27 | Oksana | fishbulb: why do you think I mentioned Openmoko aka GTA04? Neo900 motherboard is both based on GTA04... and designed by same person |
| 02:02.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~joerg |
| 02:02.46 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, joerg is a natural born EE, ex HW-developer and engineer of Openmoko. Usually known as DocScrutinizer. Initiator of http://neo900.org |
| 02:03.09 | sunshavi | ~sunshavi |
| 02:03.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | I built computers before you were born |
| 02:03.31 | Oksana | nods... |
| 02:03.37 | fishbulb | I only really care about your opinion on the n900 |
| 02:03.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I don't care about this conversation any longer |
| 02:04.00 | sunshavi | DocScrutinizer05: I do not want to start an arguments. Those are just tested facts here |
| 02:04.05 | fishbulb | except that last one |
| 02:04.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | sunshavi: you're on a different wavelength and didn'T get what I said, at all |
| 02:05.10 | fishbulb | maybe doc meant that if you just run the wifi and zero other things on the n900 you can potentially get 40h |
| 02:05.20 | Oksana | fishbulb: Different N900s behave differently. Be it software (flash the device?) or water-damage (somebody refused to repair microusb port and wrote water damage as reason), my n900 eats batteries like candy, while doc's is very-well-maintained |
| 02:05.53 | fishbulb | like no internet connection, barely any other processes, just a wifi connection to the phone doing nothing, 40h? still no |
| 02:06.20 | Oksana | Potentially, yes. He mentions WiFi and ssh, in stand-by (aka blanked screen) mode. Not video-ing |
| 02:06.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | a plain N900 with crap like skype and email checks and other instant messaging nuked can easily stay 2 days with active connected WLAN, on one battery |
| 02:07.10 | Oksana | Nice :-D |
| 02:07.36 | fishbulb | oh cool, I can wlan into the phone, and.... |
| 02:07.44 | fishbulb | wait I still need data |
| 02:07.46 | Oksana | Either all my batteries are nuked, or my N900 is not plain... Does your plain N900 include 3G? |
| 02:07.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually I do that every day, when I come home and forget to connect mine to charger, and next morning I notice "ooh, forgot the running XCHAT anfd now it ran since 18h via WLAN and battery down to 60%" |
| 02:08.00 | fishbulb | why the fuck would you even suggest that |
| 02:08.31 | fishbulb | oh yes excluding 3g, you can use it as a wifi hotspot for AGES |
| 02:08.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | Oksana: yes |
| 02:08.43 | fishbulb | if you don't want internet, you can use the wifi hotspot for hours and hours |
| 02:09.26 | fishbulb | how about I turn both devices off, I can use them for the next 3 years before the batteries die |
| 02:09.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | fishbulb: please stop playing ignorant, I said "running xchat" |
| 02:09.54 | Oksana | Also, might be tracker with lots of files to be tracked... Or just wishful thinking, trying to blame all problems on the tracker |
| 02:10.22 | sunshavi | Oksana: what is tracker? |
| 02:10.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | are you so buusy with trolling that you forget to understand what you read, or don't you read at all? |
| 02:10.50 | Oksana | The thing which puts list of images into Photos-Gallery, list of Music and Videos into Media Player |
| 02:10.51 | fishbulb | this might be productive if any of you were tethered to reality |
| 02:11.06 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 02:11.15 | Oksana | Sorry, multi-conversation can be difficult to keep up with |
| 02:11.18 | *** mode/#maemo [+q fishbulb!*@*] by DocScrutinizer05 |
| 02:11.26 | *** mode/#maemo [-o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
| 02:11.30 | *** part/#maemo fishbulb (~fishbulb@unaffiliated/fishbulb) |
| 02:12.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | troll |
| 02:12.07 | sunshavi | what is happening with those "ChanServ" messages? |
| 02:12.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | nothing important |
| 02:12.58 | Oksana | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internet_Relay_Chat_services#ChanServ |
| 02:13.16 | sunshavi | Oksana: thanks. I do not use it :p |
| 02:14.45 | sunshavi | all my interactions wiht media player are trought dbus. I cant wait 4 media player to take a lot of time 4 starting |
| 02:15.22 | sunshavi | probably the process eating starting time is tracker |
| 02:16.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | for further enlightenment: |
| 02:16.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~power |
| 02:16.32 | infobot | power is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption |
| 02:16.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | guess who did that? |
| 02:18.29 | sunshavi | DocScrutinizer05: bt comsuption is not there :p |
| 02:18.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | so what? |
| 02:19.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | and actually it is, just not for active PAN usage |
| 02:19.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | however WLAN usage is there |
| 02:20.13 | sunshavi | wait: it is |
| 02:20.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | even a bq27200 log for a usecase with xchat (internet data traffic via WLAN) |
| 02:21.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | which clearly shows WLAN is not your primary problem and saving WLAN energy thus won't solve it |
| 02:22.28 | Oksana | Also: http://wiki.maemo.org/Make_your_battery_last_longer http://wiki.maemo.org/Wifi_power_saving_mode http://wiki.maemo.org/AutoDisconnect Disclaimer: do not have autodisconnect installed |
| 02:22.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | but my major point was you get better results when rather you plug the battery of the second device to your primary device and use the primary WLAN and no BT at all |
| 02:22.48 | sunshavi | "WLAN transmit 802.11b - 150 mA" and "BT enabled, no headset connected +2 mA with ~1/5 time spikes to +9 mA" |
| 02:23.14 | sunshavi | those r ur own numbers |
| 02:23.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | auto-disconnect WAAAAAH! |
| 02:24.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | sunshavi: yes, those are my numbers and I understand them, you obviously don't. That's why I won't discuss this any longer |
| 02:25.10 | sunshavi | DocScrutinizer05: ok |
| 02:25.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | that and the fact that you don't even try to understand what I said |
| 02:26.28 | sunshavi | again: tested here , not just my words. How I have gotten those results? |
| 02:26.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | Oksana: ((Disclaimer: do not have autodisconnect installed)) you damn better don't |
| 02:27.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | that and the fact that you don't even try to understand what I said |
| 02:27.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | ^^^ repeated on purpose |
| 02:27.41 | sunshavi | lol. Ok tables then |
| 02:28.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | but my major point was you get better results when rather you plug the battery of the second device to your primary device and use the primary WLAN and no BT at all (also repeated on purpose) |
| 02:29.22 | sunshavi | ok i am going to read and try to understand then |
| 02:29.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | for the rest I suggest the backscroll |
| 02:30.04 | sunshavi | DocScrutinizer05: how can I plug a second battery to a device? |
| 02:31.16 | sunshavi | DocScrutinizer05: Do I need to take off the battery from the second device? |
| 02:31.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | I mentioned a powerbank, see backscroll |
| 02:32.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | a powerbank same weight as your N810(?) will give you 5 times the operation time with your primary device |
| 02:33.13 | sunshavi | DocScrutinizer05: N800 here :) |
| 02:33.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | since no N800 CPU and RAM and BT and whatnot needs to get operated basically for nothing |
| 02:34.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | plus you save the BT energy on your primary device |
| 02:34.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's a lot of energy saving, and you got a lot more energy in a powerbank than in a N800 too |
| 02:35.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | on same size of powerbank and N800 |
| 02:36.15 | sunshavi | DocScrutinizer05: if i need a portable wifi all my colleages (up until 8) can get it from my PAN |
| 02:36.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | N900+N800 = X hours. N900 + powerbank = X * 10 hours |
| 02:37.04 | *** join/#maemo lobito (~lobito@unaffiliated/lobito) |
| 02:37.39 | sunshavi | DocScrutinizer05: and All of my colleages thanks me their devices last longer cos of bluetooth savings |
| 02:37.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | plus all your colleagues could get WLAN from your N900 then |
| 02:38.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | via BT |
| 02:38.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | ten times longer than with N900 and N800 |
| 02:40.10 | *** join/#maemo ashneo76 (~ashneo76@204.14.154.168) |
| 02:40.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | while you still have to cary only 2 objects: powerbank and N900, and the weight would be same (if you find the right powerbank with same weight as the N800) |
| 02:40.19 | sunshavi | I do not use both devices at the same time, just one of those |
| 02:40.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | then wth were you talking about with your energy saving by BT PAN? |
| 02:40.55 | sunshavi | I have two batteries for my n900 |
| 02:41.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry, this is a timesink 'discussion' |
| 02:41.39 | sunshavi | cos besides having a wifi conn at home we have a BT PAN too |
| 02:42.20 | sunshavi | thanks for the suggestion about the power bank. All of this started cos of DUN, vs PAN scenary |
| 02:42.52 | sunshavi | I was in favor of PAN. You were on favor of DUN |
| 02:44.07 | sunshavi | btw guys. whon did that question. I am going to go back for it. But probably one of you can beat me with that |
| 02:44.42 | Oksana | Okay, how is autodisconnect in Extras still?.. Not in testing or devel? Curious... http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2013-05-25.log.html Did somebody eventually look into flaw(s) in its logic?.. The thread is old, so most likely people do not use it much http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=45053 |
| 02:45.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | autoconnect is fubar |
| 02:49.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | Oksana: I think the "flaws in its logic" are undocumented behavior of ICD2 etc |
| 02:50.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | though I also think the whole concept of auto-disconnect is broken by design |
| 02:51.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | why would you disconnect from internet to start with? |
| 02:52.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | the modem for example has no noticeable increase in energy consumption when it's actually connected to the APN |
| 02:53.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | the energy gets consumed for data transfer, which is when auto-disconnect is supposed to establish a new connection anyway |
| 02:54.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | it might help in a situation where you suffer massive unsolicited inbound data traffic which also cuts through your battery, but that's a problem way better solved on a different level |
| 02:56.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | and your dataplan isn't balanced by the minutes you are connected anyway |
| 02:56.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | auto-disconnect is a concept from dial-up connections |
| 02:56.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | time |
| 02:57.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | when you connected your acoustic coupler to the receiver of your landline phone, or later had a hayes modem that actually did call a number to connect to the internet for like 20ct per minute |
| 02:58.56 | Oksana | Hmm, is there another way (besides auto-disconnect) to auto-switch to 2G when possible, and 3G when 2G is not available? Because Dual goes to 3G when possible, 2G when 3G is not available. |
| 02:59.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | I dunno if the modem could even do that |
| 02:59.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | possibly a limitation in the network *protocols* |
| 02:59.59 | Oksana | And I agree that partially torn flex ribbon (which disables light-sensor and front-cam) is more of a concern than WiFi connection (especially when WiFi settings are power-saving) |
| 03:00.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | 3G network possibly informs the modem of 2G alternatives, but 2G for sure doesn't inform about 3G alternatives |
| 03:00.57 | *** join/#maemo lxp (~lxp@unaffiliated/lxp) |
| 03:01.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | you should get a new flex |
| 03:01.55 | Oksana | When 2G is not available, assume that 3G is available and try to switch to 3G? And yes, there are probably reasonable protocol limitations which make Dual prefer to use 3G when possible |
| 03:02.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 03:02.12 | Oksana | Flex is easy, destroyed screw hats are being difficult |
| 03:02.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | ouch |
| 03:03.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway the 2G/3G selector app works fine, though only manually. You prolly easily could augment it |
| 03:04.28 | Oksana | And local makerspace is afraid to bear responsibility in case of attempt to drill them out, so they tell me to try a professional phone repairer. Which is troublesome. Phone repairer would be likely to say "leave device with me for days, I will do everything, you will pay" and then say "take your device back, water-damage-or-something, I am not repairing that" |
| 03:04.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | no idea how to make it switch 3G->2G though, except for periodic trying |
| 03:05.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 03:07.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | get a straw that exactly fits into the holes, then insert and cut to protect the walls, and glue a rod to the screw head with really strong elastic glue, like Pattex 100% repair gel |
| 03:08.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.pattex.de/do-it-yourself-mit-pattex-klebstoffe-produkte-new/pattex-klebstoffe/reparaturkleber/100percent-repair-gel.html |
| 03:10.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | N-(3-(Trimethoxysilyl)propyl)ethylendiamin |
| 03:11.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | worst case you still can drill |
| 03:17.25 | *** mode/#maemo [+o DocScrutinizer05] by ChanServ |
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| 03:20.49 | *** mode/#maemo [-qqqq Gear_!*@* *!*@granny.slept.with.lenin.ru *!*@gateway/web/cgi-irc/irc.wikia.com/* ToGgG__son!*@*] by DocScrutinizer05 |
| 03:22.26 | *** mode/#maemo [-qqqq jee!*@* marry!*@* Ergon!*@* N900addikt!*@*] by DocScrutinizer05 |
| 03:23.04 | *** mode/#maemo [-qqqq chocolaate-maan!*@* lawl0r!*@* Dr_I!*@* parovaya!*@*] by DocScrutinizer05 |
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| 03:58.37 | *** join/#maemo pagurus` (~user@pD950D57D.dip0.t-ipconnect.de) |
| 04:00.17 | *** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer05 (~saturn@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 04:29.06 | Vajb | i had pattex contact adhesive once and it was worst i've had :/ |
| 04:32.38 | Vajb | btw is there polar flow app clone for maemo? I did quick googling and couldn't find much. |
| 04:33.29 | Vajb | there is android app which is showing some info from device via bluetooth so i thought it could have some implementations on maemo |
| 04:33.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | pattex contact is a completely different gue |
| 04:34.09 | Vajb | DocScrutinizer05: yes i know. Just stated my worthless opinion of trade mark overall :) |
| 04:35.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | contact glue is per se only useful for joints with large smooth flat areas on both objects |
| 04:35.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | and it works only when you *really* apply force to connect the two objects |
| 04:36.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | this critter I linked above is more like cyanoacrylate |
| 04:36.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | just slower and more elastic |
| 04:37.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | really strong stuff |
| 04:39.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | oh, I need to create a test-"H" object from that stuff, to check the force it needs to break the substance itself |
| 04:40.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | test-I (with serifes) |
| 04:47.01 | Vajb | i tried it to glue some rubber to plywood, but it peeled of quite fast. Best result i had with 2-component glue. |
| 04:47.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | rubber is a bitch to glue |
| 04:47.38 | Vajb | bet it had something to do with other thing being elastic and other not |
| 04:48.04 | Vajb | oh well back to wr0k... |
| 04:49.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, to start with, rubber is flexible and has a rather flush surface with little microstructure for clue to find a grip in it |
| 04:49.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/clue/glue/ |
| 05:02.46 | KotCzarny | oksana: some recomment to put rubberband on the screw, then press screwdriver really hard |
| 05:03.38 | KotCzarny | also, if those screws are in the display part, you can just get n900 with broken usb/modem cheap and replace the whole thing |
| 05:57.35 | Vajb | also gentle tip of a hammer might help. I mean to put screwdriver on screw and tap the screw driver with hammer. |
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| 06:32.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | not on a 1.2mm screw |
| 06:33.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | if that large at all |
| 06:34.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually 1.4x4 |
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| 06:56.41 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: bluetooth DUN still gives some form of control to the N900 though, or at least some form of monitoring |
| 06:56.47 | kerio | the data counter goes up |
| 07:03.10 | Oksana | Any idea why WiFi sometimes goes Off-then-back-On(Stock) ? |
| 07:11.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: excellent spotting |
| 07:12.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | Oksana: seems it has its resets aka "kernel oopses" just like the PowerVR and DSP |
| 07:13.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | check syslog |
| 07:13.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | it should have some hints about what's going on |
| 07:15.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOL just found this as last entry (except MARK) in syslog >>Jun 3 02:34:14 IroN900 kernel: [107637.393218] HWRecoveryResetSGX: SGX Hardware Recovery triggered<< |
| 07:21.22 | Oksana | ~syslog |
| 07:21.22 | infobot | i guess syslog is the unix facility for logging the messages that programs produce. |
| 07:23.33 | Oksana | wonders where syslog is... |
| 07:24.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's in /var/log/syslog, when you installed the *syslog-bla packages |
| 07:24.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/13555037 |
| 07:25.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | klogd - Kernel Logging Daemon |
| 07:25.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | sysklogd - System Logging Daemon |
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| 08:14.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw awesome stuff: http://maemo.org/packages/view/sp-endurance/ http://maemo.org/packages/view/sp-endurance-postproc/ |
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| 08:44.56 | Sicelo | i have had that annoying sgx reset |
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| 15:49.25 | ceene | i think yappari is dead |
| 15:49.30 | ceene | :( |
| 15:49.48 | ceene | i see that yowsup users are experiencing the same thing as i am |
| 15:49.54 | ceene | automatic ban just because |
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| 15:50.28 | ceene | they must be thoroughly checking clients and are banning all non official ones |
| 15:50.40 | ceene | they can do it in thousands of ways |
| 15:51.14 | ceene | the most subtle thing could be an indicator of a rogue client |
| 15:57.33 | Sicelo | ah, that sucks |
| 15:57.41 | ceene | yep :( |
| 15:57.49 | Sicelo | is there any alternative implementation that still works? |
| 15:57.55 | ceene | i just don't know what else to do |
| 15:58.01 | ceene | yowsup is the most updated one |
| 15:58.06 | ceene | at least that i know of |
| 15:59.52 | ceene | i'm downloading http://www.android-x86.org/download this |
| 16:00.01 | ceene | maybe it can run whatsapp |
| 16:00.07 | ceene | under a virtual machine |
| 16:00.17 | ceene | not that it's a great solution for anyone |
| 16:00.19 | Sicelo | and have we heard anything from them (yowsup), e.g. future plans? |
| 16:00.31 | ceene | nope, i even wrote its author to ask for help |
| 16:00.45 | ceene | first time he answered me but couldn't help |
| 16:00.49 | ceene | second time he didn't even answer |
| 16:01.07 | Sicelo | it may not run there ... whatsapp knows that the VM has no SIM .. or maybe it will work |
| 16:01.10 | ceene | let me check his development branch |
| 16:01.46 | ceene | yowsup has commits from 12 days ago |
| 16:02.10 | Sicelo | ah ... so there's still a bit of life? |
| 16:02.24 | ceene | so it seems |
| 16:02.40 | ceene | but still they have several issues reported of bans, etc |
| 16:03.07 | ceene | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:03.09 | ceene | 7 days ago |
| 16:03.16 | ceene | that's been happening on yappari for quite a lot |
| 16:03.22 | ceene | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:03.29 | ceene | 9 days ago, after latest commit |
| 16:03.39 | ceene | i win, i've got 5 numbers blocked now, i believe |
| 16:04.04 | ceene | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:04.33 | ceene | that one looks like cipher problems |
| 16:04.41 | ceene | from 9 days ago |
| 16:05.15 | ceene | at least i think he knows what he's doing unlike me, but this is all looking quite bad |
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| 16:06.49 | ceene | i'll wait till sunday |
| 16:06.54 | Sicelo | quite unfortunate really. yappari has worked great |
| 16:07.00 | ceene | but i think i'll be announcing the end of yappari then :( |
| 16:07.22 | ceene | i still got in mind the telegram thing |
| 16:07.28 | ceene | i know some people will use it |
| 16:07.42 | ceene | but lots of people will be abandoning their n900 |
| 16:07.52 | ceene | they probably already have, to be honest |
| 16:07.59 | ceene | it's been how long since yappari stopped working? |
| 16:08.15 | ceene | it doesn't seem fair to keep people hoping for something that isn't going to happen |
| 16:09.07 | Sicelo | my last and final ban was somewhere in april |
| 16:09.14 | ceene | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:09.15 | ceene | yep |
| 16:09.26 | ceene | 6 weeks |
| 16:10.05 | ceene | in a couple weeks i'd be getting my numbers unbanned |
| 16:10.21 | ceene | but for what? they only last a couple of days |
| 16:11.40 | Sicelo | true. i'm now watching yowsup |
| 16:11.54 | Sicelo | by the way, yowsup is designed for PC? or? |
| 16:12.19 | ceene | well, actually it's not a full fledged application |
| 16:12.28 | ceene | it's a very complete implementation |
| 16:12.32 | ceene | but interface is pretty arcane |
| 16:12.37 | ceene | only console |
| 16:12.45 | ceene | and probably difficult to use |
| 16:13.07 | ceene | it's probably more useful for automated things, instead of personal use |
| 16:13.32 | Sicelo | would it (console) work as is on N900? i see it depends on python 2.7 |
| 16:13.37 | Sicelo | 2.6+ rather |
| 16:13.41 | ceene | yes, i think it can run |
| 16:14.28 | Sicelo | okay. asking so i could test some day too |
| 16:14.37 | ceene | sure, give it a try |
| 16:15.03 | ceene | there's also chat-api https://github.com/mgp25/Chat-API |
| 16:15.06 | ceene | it's written on php |
| 16:15.12 | ceene | don't think that'll run easily on maemo |
| 16:15.16 | ceene | also, it's php |
| 16:15.58 | ceene | latest real commit was on march |
| 16:16.06 | ceene | he told me he has latest protocol implemented |
| 16:16.15 | ceene | but to be honest, i think it's not true |
| 16:16.44 | Sicelo | looks quiet that one, yes |
| 16:16.52 | ceene | he's from my city, i hoped he would be nicer |
| 16:17.07 | ceene | but didn't care a fucking lot about helping me a little |
| 16:17.44 | ceene | maybe i'm just frustrated, but i hate him :D |
| 16:17.50 | Sicelo | lol |
| 16:18.42 | Sicelo | i'll maybe test that yowsup on my pc then. let me hope that one somehow gets sorted |
| 16:19.35 | Sicelo | i'm using pidgin's telegram plugin on the N900 .. managed to get one of my sister's on it, haha |
| 16:19.52 | ceene | oh, the other will have to fall for it too! |
| 16:20.14 | ceene | i'll try and see how much hard is it to use telegram-qt on yappari |
| 16:20.19 | ceene | i see it as doable |
| 16:20.19 | Sicelo | i wrote them a nice long email .. i'm sure she'll join shortly enough |
| 16:20.30 | ceene | i'll have to change its name so people don't get confused |
| 16:21.09 | Sicelo | true that |
| 16:24.42 | ceene | i'm also a little tired of all the incompatibilities of this thingy |
| 16:24.47 | ceene | modest is a piece of shit |
| 16:25.08 | ceene | i may end up buying a phone like the one normal people use |
| 16:25.39 | ceene | an android to do normal people things and the n900 to type insanely on a console and feel like a hacker |
| 16:26.58 | Sicelo | you have large inbox? |
| 16:27.05 | ceene | nope |
| 16:27.15 | ceene | but some messages break it |
| 16:27.19 | Sicelo | i've not had any issues with modest myself .. of course wfm is never a useful solution |
| 16:27.32 | ceene | i received a linux-kernel mailing list and it broke everything |
| 16:27.49 | Sicelo | strange |
| 16:28.01 | ceene | it's completely absurd, because it stores mails as a Maildir, so each message gets its own file |
| 16:28.14 | Sicelo | and ML usually send plain-text .. that should be even easier to handle, i'd assume |
| 16:28.15 | ceene | but it corrupts something and mixes headers with content, content with headers, etc |
| 16:28.22 | ceene | yes, that's the funny thing |
| 16:28.40 | ceene | it's not even a gmail or iphone or modern thingy |
| 16:28.45 | ceene | it's just majordomo mailing list |
| 16:29.22 | Sicelo | and i'm sure FMG/Pali receive lots of ML emails .. i don't think they've had that issue either |
| 16:29.34 | Sicelo | you may want to try remove and re-add the mailbox? |
| 16:29.40 | ceene | yes, that solves it |
| 16:29.54 | ceene | but it isn't something i'm willing to do so often... |
| 16:30.03 | Sicelo | then it breaks again after 'fix'? |
| 16:30.38 | ceene | whenever it finds a message it doesn't like, it breaks again |
| 16:31.16 | Sicelo | are you at least able to find out the offending message? you could look at it properly in a more detailed client such as mutt |
| 16:31.56 | ceene | yes, i'm quite sure it's mailing lists emails |
| 16:32.04 | ceene | but still, i don't want to do that |
| 16:32.07 | ceene | i just want to read emails |
| 16:32.44 | ceene | i'm passing through a "i just want to be a user, not a dev!" phase |
| 16:33.28 | Sicelo | i love N900 .. but i know for sure it won't last forever :) |
| 16:33.36 | ceene | i even bought a second one |
| 16:33.42 | ceene | just because they are cool as hell |
| 16:33.54 | ceene | and i love that they are little linux machines with full fledged keyboards |
| 16:34.03 | ceene | but they don't work as an everyday phone anymore :/ |
| 16:34.27 | Sicelo | for the time being im fine with it, and wish to use it as long as possible, but my 2nd one already has bad flex, not reading sd cards, and green notification LED is dead |
| 16:34.35 | Sicelo | who knows what next |
| 16:35.20 | Sicelo | as much as Jolla is having tough times, i probably may find myself a Jolla user, or even Tizen if Samsung makes a proper decision about that |
| 16:35.42 | Sicelo | if these two don't work out .. Android |
| 16:35.43 | ceene | the jolla would have been great |
| 16:35.48 | ceene | with its keyboard and all |
| 16:36.20 | ceene | and its android compatibility allows it to use it with current apps |
| 16:38.32 | ceene | i think shaslik http://www.shashlik.io/ is also dead |
| 16:38.45 | ceene | no commits since march, 2nd |
| 16:40.13 | Sicelo | :( |
| 16:40.28 | Sicelo | i wanted to test that too |
| 16:40.36 | Sicelo | terrible |
| 16:40.40 | ceene | i tried a couple weeks ago without luck |
| 16:51.55 | ceene | i don't know if i'll be able to live without a keyboard |
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| 18:31.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | whatsapp the Inc is as nasty and mendacious as it gets, no? |
| 18:31.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | this is an uphill battle you can't win |
| 18:33.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | I could come up with half a dozen (better) solutions to absolutely any problem they might face with "rogue clients", but they decide to block users since it meets their business plan |
| 18:36.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | TNH the technical skills level in whatsapp never been better than a modest on par at best, given they simply copied XMPP or IRC basically |
| 18:36.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | TBH |
| 18:37.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | all their great words they write on their website sound like lies |
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| 21:35.41 | stryngs | just wants to play with the Neo.... =) |
| 21:36.34 | merlin1991 | other people too ;? |
| 21:36.36 | merlin1991 | err ;) |
| 21:43.00 | stryngs | =} |
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