IRC log for #maemo on 20160508

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07:37.43*** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | "firmware" see ~tabletsdev ~combined ~emmc ~flasher sdk: ~sb | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet
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13:24.42Linkandzeldais python 2.5 the only version i can use for maemo dev?
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13:41.24bencohwe have some higher versions in extras-devel, but ....
13:55.23DocScrutinizer05random systemd bugreport: running a cronjob for user XY *creates* a stale symlink ~XY/.local/share/systemd/user
13:56.55DocScrutinizer05now figure this cronjob was a rsync job doing a sync of the user's homedir, where the user is only owning this shared dir and not supposed to ever log in interactively
13:57.51DocScrutinizer05WTF systemd??!!
14:03.22DocScrutinizer05http://paste.opensuse.org/48973407
14:06.27Siceloit would apppear that all distributions will go systemd eventually, except may be those designed particularly against it (e.g. Devuan)
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14:15.35KotCzarnyor where maintainers arent 'everyone is doing it so we must do it too'-drones
14:15.50KotCzarnybut keeping to 'do one thing, but do it perfect'
14:25.27Sicelomaybe someone has to make a fork that gets the best bits of systemd, and the best of sysv :)
14:30.13KotCzarnyerm, and which are the 'best bits' ?
14:31.38KotCzarnyremember, if you simply want your os to boot quick, then disable unneeded services and enable parallel booting, or just use tux-on-ice (also known as swsusp2) it's that simple
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14:32.15KotCzarnyotherwise it's just overcomplicating things that are simple into abomination taking over your system
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14:49.27DocScrutinizer05aka Devuan
14:50.33DocScrutinizer05[2016-05-08 Sun 14:42:31] <nextime> it isn't us blocking systemd, is systemd blocking us to adopt it :)
14:51.32keriohow often are you booting your fucking computer that makes boot time such an issue
14:51.47keriomaybe you should work on the cause of your constant reboots
14:52.13keriolike the fact that you can't fucking restart dbus-daemon
14:52.20keriobecause otherwise you need to restart everything that uses it
14:52.21KotCzarnyi reboot my n900 usually after every few battery empty messages
14:55.24keriobtw can someone explain to me why it's so hard to get a tarball of an installed linux system
14:55.40KotCzarnybecause uboot?
14:55.49keriono no, an amd64 install
14:56.42KotCzarnyjust grab longsleep bare image
14:57.01DocScrutinizer05frowns at kerio and suspects he's talking to an invisible (to DocScrutinizer05) source
14:57.15kerioi'm talking to myself
14:57.19kerioi've been spoiled by freebsd
14:58.08DocScrutinizer05so lemme answer: *I* am booting my fscking computer maybe 2 to 3 times a year, and boot time is a total non-issue to me
14:58.20kerioDocScrutinizer05: indeed
14:58.41KotCzarnyahm, amd64, not arm64.
14:58.41keriolike, i understand that maybe it's a bit more of an issue for embedded
14:58.46keriobut...
14:58.48DocScrutinizer05actually servers see reboots less frequently
14:59.09kerioservers aren't rebooted nearly often enough
14:59.37keriouptime is a measure of how unsure you are that everything will start up properly :>
15:00.01DocScrutinizer05hmm  up 44 days 15:43 - seems I has a kernel update, the only legitimate reason for a reboot
15:00.23keriobut still, is sync boot really much slower than the sort of async crap that upstart/systemd do, especially on a single-core machine?
15:00.52KotCzarnykerio: some startup scripts have sleep commands in them
15:01.07KotCzarnythats why its so slow on sync boot
15:01.07DocScrutinizer05I dunno, my sysv-init did async startup since ages
15:01.40DocScrutinizer05at least as option, which I never cared about
15:01.49DocScrutinizer05so I can't even tell if it been used or not
15:02.03kerioanyway, my question stands
15:02.31keriowhy can't i just download "the debian tarball" and unpack it in a directory to have a complete rootfs
15:02.44KotCzarnyalso, it seems that systemd is just a disease introduced as a cure-it-all pill
15:02.58DocScrutinizer05umm, you're sort of doing this for maemo
15:03.14KotCzarnykerio, because updates
15:03.35DocScrutinizer05as well as a huge number of other embedded devices
15:03.43KotCzarnyand because netinstall
15:03.55KotCzarnyalso because modularity
15:03.57kerioDocScrutinizer05: freebsd does it for i386 and amd64
15:05.24DocScrutinizer05yast (Opensuse) basically also does it for a number of defined default configs, then applying deltas on top of that to exactly match your individual setup
15:06.03kerio"basically" is what upsets me
15:06.20DocScrutinizer05basically each .rpm and .deb is a tarball
15:06.21keriodebian is also "basically" doing that, if by "basically" you mean that the base system is a huge amount of udebs
15:06.24KotCzarnykerio, but you are overcomplicating
15:06.32KotCzarnyjust install one susyem
15:06.34KotCzarnysystem
15:06.41KotCzarnythen tar and untar on another machine. done
15:07.02DocScrutinizer05it's just about granularity of config you can have
15:07.12KotCzarnybut i prefer rsync over tar
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15:08.10kerioKotCzarny: https://download.freebsd.org/ftp/releases/amd64/10.3-RELEASE/
15:08.20DocScrutinizer05you're asking for (A B B D E F), standard is (A) (B) (C) (D) (E) (F), and e.g. Suse does (ABCDE) (F)
15:08.22keriobase.txz is literally a tarball of the freebsd /
15:08.43DocScrutinizer05s/A B B/A B C/
15:08.52Sicelocontaining which packages?
15:09.04keriobase isn't packaged
15:09.59DocScrutinizer05Suse even might do (ABCDEFG) - (G)
15:10.03ceenei've installed debian many times on a virtual machine just to tar the whole rootfs and install that on a slower machine, or a machine with bad connectivity
15:10.16KotCzarnyyup
15:10.26KotCzarnyi do the same if i get new machine
15:10.34KotCzarnyjust rsync os without /home
15:10.59KotCzarny(regenerating keys etc later)
15:11.21DocScrutinizer05I think live DVDs do a simple copy instead of tarball extract
15:12.10DocScrutinizer05when you use the "install this Live system as permanent OS" feature
15:12.45DocScrutinizer05afk, sorry
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15:17.02kerioalso, why the hell doesn't linux ps support "d"
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15:20.25KotCzarny# ps  d
15:20.25KotCzarnyerror: unsupported option (BSD syntax)
15:20.26KotCzarnylol
15:20.37KotCzarnyit refuses to support it ;)
15:21.10keriolike
15:21.17kerioyou've got a thing that outputs a list of processes
15:21.23kerioit doesn't seem farfetched to add a tree view to it
15:21.28kerioinstead of requiring a separate program
15:21.58KotCzarny<PROTECTED>
15:21.59KotCzarny<PROTECTED>
15:21.59KotCzarny<PROTECTED>
15:23.00ceeneps faux
15:23.11ceeneis the one i like
15:23.51KotCzarnyi usually use: ps axwwu
15:24.37keriops auxwwdJ0
15:24.44keriobecause otherwise there's way too much crap
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16:30.43Vajb_question about jabber. In which server i should register? Newest or closest or totally irrelevant?
16:31.06KotCzarnywhy not both?
16:32.30Vajb_well it seems im not too familiar of how it works...
16:33.12Vajb_i thought it is like facebook or something that there is only one place to register etc
16:33.40KotCzarnyi think its more like local server hubs talking to each other
16:33.49KotCzarnyie. kind of irc structure
16:34.13Siceloyou need only register on one server, and yes, irc is the best analogy
16:34.29KotCzarnyyou can even have own server
16:35.12Vajb_but they are all connected to each others?
16:35.16Siceloyou will be able to talk to people on other servers, unless one of the involved servers is private
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16:35.23KotCzarnyyou have id@domain right?
16:35.30KotCzarnydomain part is the id of the server
16:35.41KotCzarnyand they can connect users together if needed
16:36.26KotCzarnypick the one you trust
16:36.27Vajb_and how do i tell my whatsapp friends what to do if there is too many choices :p
16:36.37KotCzarnysee id@domain part
16:37.17Vajb_ah that'll be "me" shown to them?
16:37.26SiceloKotCzarny: if they are on completely different domain, Vajb_ can talk to them
16:37.29Vajb_i guess i'll go by newest software
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16:37.59Sicelojabber/xmpp is federated, unless someone has explicitylt decided to make their server private
16:37.59Vajb_plus security grade
16:38.14KotCzarnysicelo, yes, that's what i meant 'servers talking to each other by domain'
16:39.19KotCzarnyalso, google talk is also using xmpp/jabber network
16:39.57Sicelonot anymore. they went private
16:40.03KotCzarnyahm, pity
16:40.28Vajb_yes i was thinking of google talk as alternative
16:40.41Vajb_but thought it wont work because google
16:40.54Sicelofacebook was also standard xmpp, decided to go proprietary too
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16:41.31SiceloVajb_: try google .. it works for some, but you have to ensure you add your friends, particularly if they are on android/hangouts
16:41.59Vajb_well rather not
16:42.16Vajb_im looking for alternative for longer time
16:42.32SiceloIRC :)
16:42.42Vajb_if it is owned by some big blahblah u never know...
16:42.54Vajb_no irssi for android :(
16:43.00KotCzarnyvajb: not true
16:43.19KotCzarnyif you root your device you can ssh to it and run on screen
16:43.20KotCzarny;)
16:43.24Sicelolol? why irssi?
16:43.30Vajb_well wasn't visible in galaxy apps when my gf checked
16:43.33Sicelothere are many irc clients for them
16:43.45KotCzarnybut it wont be battery friendly for sure
16:43.59KotCzarnyyour best bet is to use mosh + irssi on screen somehwere
16:44.13Vajb_yeah i guess some im client is better
16:44.20Siceloi don't even get why it has to be irssi?
16:45.07Sicelostarted IRC with jmIrc on Nokia dumb phone
16:45.08Vajb_well it is just something i trust :)
16:45.25KotCzarnyvajb, irssi, bitchx, epic
16:45.32KotCzarnydepends on your initial poison
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17:33.21DocScrutinizer05IRC has webchat :-)
17:34.06DocScrutinizer05so literally everybody can use it, as long as you got a browser that can do what the webchat needs
17:34.53DocScrutinizer05also creating multiuser chats is as simple as it gets: just join a random channel of your choice
17:36.19DocScrutinizer05invite people: send http://webchat.freenode.net/?channels=ourleetechannel
17:37.27DocScrutinizer05really convincing people never been simpler
17:38.49DocScrutinizer05no strings attached
17:39.54DocScrutinizer05on N900 you're free to use a decen IRC client like xchat
17:41.41kerio"good" LUL
17:42.13DocScrutinizer05o.O ?
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18:06.55jogashell irc: still Just Works, unlike any of the other so-called better IM solutions :p
18:07.16jogaif I had an android/iphone I'd try Signal perhaps
18:07.36jogawith friends/family or so, but it's not the same anyway as irc
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19:01.05Vajb_well i ended up registering at chinwag
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22:13.57Linkandzeldahow easy is it to take apart n900 and swap the screen?
22:22.25Siceloeasy .. depends on you really (and tools) :)
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