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| 03:31.38 | gry | i get this council elections mail and i have no clue what it is going to do |
| 03:31.56 | gry | this 'community' word is something companies say to signify voice of the volunteers |
| 03:32.09 | gry | it stays around, and i feel weird about it |
| 03:32.36 | gry | which list is supposed to actually have news of substantial technical and planning things that happen at maemo? |
| 03:33.03 | gry | "maemo-community" is just about dead |
| 03:33.49 | gry | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_mailing_lists has a list, but it's just maemo, it's no longer the 'community vs nokia.com' separation; it's now the same thing |
| 03:36.03 | gry | i just subscribed to them all |
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| 03:52.46 | Oksana | It's community vs legal-entity, I think. |
| 03:54.55 | gry | they're sort of together |
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| 07:16.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's we and Dr Who against the Daleks and the ubiquitous decay of time |
| 07:17.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | gry: tell us about your part of planning and technical that happens at your corner of maemo |
| 07:17.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | maemo is not some entity, maemo is you and me and all those who are contributing |
| 07:18.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | and council is the office that coordinates whatever needs coordination, not more not less |
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| 07:25.29 | gry | DocScrutinizer05: i agree with you, i just feel a bit alienated by this 'community' word |
| 07:27.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | may I offer a mailfilter that does a simple sed s/community/family/g ? ;-) |
| 07:27.53 | gry | i just don't use a word for describing a group of people, other than 'we' |
| 07:28.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | if you don't feel happy with family either, used 'crowd' intead, or whatever you prefer |
| 07:28.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | the maemo we council. sounds funny |
| 07:29.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | but... why not. suggest a rename |
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| 07:31.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | at least it would have an advantage that statements like "i've done so much for the community" would sound a bit weird with the new "I've done so much for us" |
| 07:31.29 | Oksana | applauds the weirdness of the conversation |
| 07:33.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | how weird sounds this then: >> Since I've already put quite some efforts in the continuance of maemo society<< |
| 07:34.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually I've been wrong, no 'community' in there, instead yet another very new undefined term "society" |
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| 07:41.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | but I guess it's not as far away as you might think, from what gry actually expects to see on ML. There is no magic entity that trows technical and planning decisions (SIC!) over the literal wall. Neither is council that entity nor does any other such entity exist. If people don't contribute by themselves, how can they expect contributions from somebody else regarding planning and technical stuff? |
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| 08:30.03 | bencoh | ooh right is that election time already? |
| 08:33.33 | KotCzarny | exciting, isn't it? |
| 08:38.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | bencoh: yes |
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| 10:46.46 | ceene | i've got a patch for QT |
| 10:46.50 | ceene | that removes SSL3 |
| 10:46.54 | ceene | shall I send it to someone? |
| 10:47.25 | ceene | it allows some applications to work again |
| 10:47.37 | ceene | such as getmewheels, possibly Yappari |
| 10:47.49 | ceene | (well, Yappari has its own problems, but this is yet another one) |
| 10:48.18 | ceene | or is there any mailing lists on which i should propose this patch? |
| 10:58.36 | bencoh | qt4 is in base repo so I'd say cssu |
| 10:59.24 | ceene | and which is the right way to contact them? |
| 11:00.26 | freemangordon_ | ceene: the code is on github, fork it and request back merge |
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| 11:00.36 | ceene | ok |
| 11:00.53 | ceene | i'll try to make it as robust as possible, so it'll take me a while |
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| 11:01.00 | freemangordon_ | ok |
| 11:01.02 | ceene | so it doesn't break anything else |
| 11:01.20 | ceene | but it's basically overriding a + switch (configuration.protocol) { |
| 11:01.35 | ceene | to remove a couple cases |
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| 11:14.12 | KotCzarny | funny as it is, if one has arm device, having n900 build env is as simple as unpacking glibc and dpkg from fremantle/sdk repo |
| 11:15.11 | Wizzup | KotCzarny: care to elaborate? |
| 11:15.46 | KotCzarny | wizzup, simple chroot suffices to be able to build packages for n900 |
| 11:16.25 | KotCzarny | no need for scratchbox, qemu, crosscompilers etc |
| 11:16.36 | Wizzup | :) |
| 11:16.45 | Wizzup | I'm considering getting a cello board, but I don't trust LeMaker... |
| 11:16.47 | Defiant | KotCzarny: whats the problem with qemu chroot? |
| 11:17.02 | Wizzup | http://www.96boards.org/products/ee/cello/ |
| 11:17.19 | KotCzarny | defiant: i dont have any x86 devices running atm, but i have plenty of arm based ones |
| 11:17.32 | KotCzarny | wizzup: i'm considering opi+2 |
| 11:17.39 | KotCzarny | 2gb of ram and h3 |
| 11:18.44 | Wizzup | But does it have proper SATA, PCI, DDR3 SO-DIMM slots? :) |
| 11:18.48 | KotCzarny | nope |
| 11:18.51 | Wizzup | This is the AMD ARM thing |
| 11:19.04 | KotCzarny | wizzup, what is the price tag? |
| 11:19.07 | Wizzup | 300$ |
| 11:19.13 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 11:19.19 | KotCzarny | vs 50$ for opi+2 |
| 11:19.21 | Wizzup | I recently get some tax returns |
| 11:19.24 | Wizzup | Link to the opi+2? |
| 11:19.47 | KotCzarny | features or shop page? |
| 11:19.53 | Wizzup | either |
| 11:20.02 | KotCzarny | http://linux-sunxi.org/Xunlong_Orange_Pi_Plus_2 |
| 11:20.27 | M4rtinK | note that the cello board should be SBSA & SBSB compatible IIRC |
| 11:20.28 | KotCzarny | there is a lot of work in progres in h3 mainlining |
| 11:21.01 | M4rtinK | that can make quite a bit of difference on the distro support sanity side |
| 11:21.06 | KotCzarny | usb-sata chip on opi+2 sucks, but is enough to connect ssd |
| 11:21.40 | M4rtinK | (https://czanik.blogs.balabit.com/2016/03/cello-the-first-affordable-64-bit-arm-server-board/) |
| 11:21.42 | Wizzup | But with the A1100 I can plug in an old radeon gpu - that seems like a win |
| 11:21.51 | KotCzarny | if you need such thing |
| 11:21.58 | KotCzarny | i like low power computing |
| 11:21.59 | Wizzup | M4rtinK: What is SBSA and SBSB? |
| 11:22.19 | Wizzup | KotCzarny: right, but I do all my daily work on ARM (chromebook laptop), and sometimes not having any gpu can be a pita |
| 11:22.33 | Wizzup | And this cello board seems like a nice dev machine |
| 11:22.42 | KotCzarny | for gpu related tasks i have my pc box |
| 11:23.09 | Wizzup | M4rtinK: nvm, it is in the blog |
| 11:23.14 | Wizzup | KotCzarny: I have no intel pc :) |
| 11:23.26 | Wizzup | KotCzarny: try using an unaccelerated framebuffer |
| 11:23.30 | Wizzup | move a few windows, scroll in firefox |
| 11:23.34 | Wizzup | tell me how that fells |
| 11:23.40 | Wizzup | then imagine doing that for ~1-2 years :) |
| 11:23.49 | Wizzup | Some even basic 2d accel is definitely quite nice |
| 11:23.56 | KotCzarny | wizzup: if sbc supports g2d fbturbo works like a charm |
| 11:24.11 | KotCzarny | Preparing to replace autoconf 2.61-8 (using autoconf_2.65-2~bpo50+1_all.deb) ... |
| 11:24.11 | Wizzup | allwinner g2d is not the same as the exynos g2d apparently |
| 11:24.13 | KotCzarny | hah. |
| 11:24.33 | KotCzarny | eat that you fricking debian deps hell |
| 11:24.35 | Wizzup | also, fbturbo doesn't work with xrandr |
| 11:24.55 | Wizzup | I am just using the modesetting driver |
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| 11:29.43 | KotCzarny | seriously, autoconf in extras/cssu should get upgraded to 2.65 |
| 11:31.03 | M4rtinK | Wizzup: sorry, got some connectivity issues |
| 11:31.11 | M4rtinK | Wizzup: so basically, SBSA: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Server_Base_System_Architecture |
| 11:31.41 | M4rtinK | Wizzup: the idea is that you can install a generic OS image on SBSA compliant boards |
| 11:31.59 | Wizzup | Cool |
| 11:32.07 | Wizzup | I mostly just compile my own kernels and use gentoo, so I wasn't too scared |
| 11:32.09 | Wizzup | but that's nice |
| 11:32.13 | M4rtinK | no need to have special images for each board & the image dosn't need to have intimate knowledge of the concrete board |
| 11:32.13 | KotCzarny | m4rtink: that means some standard subset of drivers available? |
| 11:32.52 | M4rtinK | AFAIK its mostly about UEFI & ACPI being available |
| 11:32.57 | Wizzup | KotCzarny: a bit like bios, at least to be able to boot, then you can probe and load more drivers, I would assume |
| 11:33.11 | Wizzup | where right now you need a dts to be able to boot at all |
| 11:33.12 | M4rtinK | Wizzup: yep - that's it exactly |
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| 11:33.42 | KotCzarny | hmm |
| 11:33.48 | KotCzarny | so eeprom with dts |
| 11:33.49 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 11:40.38 | Wizzup | Is it possible to downclock the n900 to a very low freq -- IIRC what the pandora board also does |
| 11:40.56 | KotCzarny | 125mhz is the lowest i think |
| 11:40.57 | Wizzup | (Not necessarily in maemo) |
| 11:41.05 | KotCzarny | but is ignored afair |
| 11:41.10 | Wizzup | KotCzarny: I think the pandora could go to as low as a few Mhz |
| 11:41.31 | Wizzup | and I thought it was mostly the same soc |
| 11:43.57 | Wizzup | KotCzarny: http://www.pandorawiki.org/Power_modes#Low_Power |
| 11:44.34 | KotCzarny | suspend to ram maybe? |
| 11:45.11 | Wizzup | That works on mainline, and I am also planning to use that |
| 11:45.59 | Wizzup | I'm working on a design doc (informal) on turning one of my n900s into a nice pda and dictophone, using s2r and the buttons effectively (I think you can disable irqs for quite some seperately) |
| 11:46.19 | Wizzup | I was just thinking of a mode where it is not doing anything except perhaps gps, and then a very low clock is fine |
| 11:46.29 | Wizzup | Since I don't plan on using the modem most of the time |
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| 11:58.42 | Oksanaa | Is it possible to download contents of letters to Modest, for offline reading? I just added a new account, and afaik modest downloaded only headers, not contents |
| 12:15.03 | Oksanaa | Congratulations, trying to log modest only gave useless process 11214: arguments to dbus_bus_request_name() were incorrect, assertion "_dbus_check_is_valid_bus_name (name)" failed in file dbus-bus.c line 1070. |
| 12:15.29 | Oksanaa | https://wiki.maemo.org/Bugs:Stock_answers#Debugging_the_connection_to_the_mail_server |
| 12:19.27 | Oksanaa | Internet is slow, battery is low |
| 12:20.00 | KotCzarny | go2sleep? |
| 12:22.57 | Oksanaa | nods... |
| 12:23.24 | Oksanaa | Any help with dowbloading contents of emails, and not just headers? |
| 12:23.54 | Oksanaa | got logs by exporting camel, but logs are tedious and seemingly useless |
| 12:26.27 | KotCzarny | look for options that say 'download body/headers' ? |
| 12:30.01 | Sicelo | my modest downloads body. are you sure yours is not? |
| 12:30.14 | Oksanaa | Where? In Modest? It does not have human-friendly options, I think... But yes, it might be that obvious... |
| 12:30.44 | Oksanaa | Well, old account has bodies, new one doesn't for whatever reason |
| 12:31.30 | Oksanaa | I am vimming .modest/cache/mail/imap/account/folders/INBOX/ |
| 12:31.36 | Sicelo | modes caches email bodies |
| 12:31.48 | Sicelo | yes, there .. |
| 12:33.03 | Oksanaa | Old account has bodies, even for emails I haven't read (afair). New account only gets a body if I open a letter, and I want modest to auto-fetch bodies, not to manually click through them |
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| 13:27.41 | ceene | should i disable ssl2 and ssl3 ? |
| 13:27.48 | ceene | qt4 supports only sslv2, sslv3 and tlsv1 |
| 13:28.09 | ceene | 4.7 |
| 13:28.18 | ceene | i'm trying to do two things |
| 13:29.11 | ceene | 1.- a version of qt4.7 that simply disables flawed protocols. At least disable SSLv3, which is set as the default; maybe sslv2 too, and set TLSv1 as the default |
| 13:29.50 | ceene | 2.- on a different branch, i'm backporting sll code from qt4.8, so alongside openssl1.0.2 we can use tlsv1.* protocols |
| 13:31.37 | ceene | sslv2 is also flawed |
| 13:31.39 | ceene | so only tlsv1 |
| 13:32.40 | KotCzarny | can you make it configurable? |
| 13:32.45 | KotCzarny | even via gconf key? |
| 13:32.57 | KotCzarny | or env variable |
| 13:32.59 | ceene | i'd rather not |
| 13:33.01 | ceene | too much work |
| 13:33.02 | ceene | and |
| 13:33.10 | ceene | SSL 2.0 is disabled by default, beginning with Internet Explorer 7,[181] Mozilla Firefox 2,[182] Opera 9.5,[183] and Safari |
| 13:33.16 | ceene | so |
| 13:33.21 | ceene | sslv2 is more than deprecated |
| 13:33.37 | ceene | and sslv3 is too a well, most servers now refuse to let you connect if you try to do ssl3 initial exchange |
| 13:33.57 | ceene | so... it's not like they a) provide security or b) can be used |
| 13:35.07 | KotCzarny | i think you have answered your own question then |
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| 13:59.31 | ceene | qt packages take 71 minutes to compile |
| 13:59.39 | ceene | that's too much |
| 14:14.42 | Linkandzelda | whats the best email client? |
| 14:15.51 | KotCzarny | firefox |
| 14:19.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | now that's a funny question ;-) |
| 14:20.26 | Wizzup | Linkandzelda: for what |
| 14:20.37 | Wizzup | for mobile usage? touch friendlyness? security? features? |
| 14:21.22 | Linkandzelda | Wizzup: i tried the regular one, seems it puts a huge hit on my battery life |
| 14:21.37 | Wizzup | when on my n900, I ssh into a server and use alpine |
| 14:21.45 | Wizzup | on my laptop I use alpine and thunderbird |
| 14:21.51 | Wizzup | replace alpine with mutt if you wish |
| 14:22.57 | Sicelo | uses mutt right onhis N900 |
| 14:23.18 | ceene | all those lack maemo integration :( |
| 14:23.19 | Sicelo | and Modest for EAS email |
| 14:23.35 | Linkandzelda | yea, i'd like maemo integration |
| 14:23.51 | ceene | i'd like a mail client that has access to my contacts, is able to notify me of incoming mail, etc, etc |
| 14:24.02 | ceene | but not modest |
| 14:24.05 | ceene | something usable |
| 14:24.06 | ceene | :P |
| 14:28.28 | Wizzup | Linkandzelda: modest is not bad, it's just that checking email often (being online) eats power |
| 14:32.20 | Linkandzelda | how does it do at checking every 5 mins? |
| 14:33.08 | Wizzup | Linkandzelda: I would say that is very often |
| 14:33.13 | Wizzup | try setting it to once every hour or o |
| 14:33.28 | Linkandzelda | 30 mins i could live with |
| 14:34.26 | Wizzup | try that |
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| 14:52.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | ceene: access to contacts? notifications? sounds realy simple to implement into any arbitrary mail client |
| 14:53.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | etc etc is a tad more demanding |
| 14:58.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | ceene: if you're interested in 'contacts' topic: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/bin/contact2 |
| 15:04.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | also http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/local/bin/contact if you like it more messy and simplistic |
| 15:22.12 | KotCzarny | can you launch shell commands on new mail in mutt/alpine? |
| 15:39.58 | KotCzarny | offtopic, compiling autoconf1.11, for ~5h now |
| 15:39.59 | KotCzarny | o.O |
| 15:42.42 | KotCzarny | s/autoconf/automake/ |
| 15:46.48 | Wizzup | KotCzarny: what are you compiling it on |
| 15:46.54 | Wizzup | Is the date on your device set correctly |
| 15:46.57 | Wizzup | Sounds like it is looping really |
| 15:47.26 | KotCzarny | wizzup, it compiled quick, but fricking make check-TEST is slow and long |
| 15:47.44 | KotCzarny | and its not looping, just awfully slow on sd card apparently |
| 15:49.26 | Wizzup | aah.. sd card.... |
| 15:49.36 | Wizzup | That is the reason I don't buy super cheap arm boards :) |
| 15:49.42 | Wizzup | The olimex ones have sata at least |
| 15:49.55 | KotCzarny | nah, its super cheap sd card |
| 15:50.14 | Wizzup | I have found any SD card to be quite crap for compiling tasks |
| 15:50.19 | KotCzarny | and it also has sata |
| 15:50.22 | Wizzup | but we went over this last time ;) |
| 15:50.36 | KotCzarny | but it's my audio box, so it shouldnt be doing any chroot/compiling |
| 15:51.03 | KotCzarny | just the fact i wanted to check my idea of using chroot instead of sb |
| 15:52.28 | KotCzarny | and i could've simply used ./configure && make && make install on that automake1.11, but i wanted to try to build fremantle compatible .deb (to see how correct my idea was too) |
| 15:52.59 | KotCzarny | so it's deb-src of lenny and compiling stuff |
| 15:54.28 | Vajb_ | sixwheeledbeast^: just found your ten minute core workout for boulderers and i am curious, if you are a climber as well? |
| 15:54.42 | sixwheeledbeast^ | Vajb_: yep |
| 15:54.49 | sixwheeledbeast^ | well bouldering |
| 15:55.03 | Vajb_ | counts as climbing in my book |
| 15:55.35 | Vajb_ | i do boulder and sport mostly |
| 15:56.25 | sixwheeledbeast^ | Vajb_: I don't do harnesses, I was dropped abseiling when I was younger and it put me off. |
| 15:57.34 | sixwheeledbeast^ | Vajb_: mainly indoor now when I get time but do outdoor occasionally in the summer, sandstone mainly. BTW #bouldering ;) |
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| 15:58.36 | Vajb_ | hmm i better check that out ;) |
| 16:02.23 | sixwheeledbeast^ | Vajb: BTW ten minute core was inspired by UK Female No1 that trains at our local indoor centre. |
| 16:05.02 | Vajb | sixwheeledbeast^: i will try it out someday |
| 16:06.00 | KotCzarny | hrm |
| 16:06.33 | sixwheeledbeast^ | cool it's not a popular app but it WFM, if you use the "secure" feature make sure you know your lock code ;) |
| 16:14.48 | KotCzarny | i hate debian build system for being so convoluted |
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| 16:21.48 | KotCzarny | automake (GNU automake) 1.11.1 |
| 16:21.52 | KotCzarny | i hate dirty hacks |
| 16:22.01 | KotCzarny | but oh-well[tm] |
| 16:23.55 | KotCzarny | on the positive side package built under 30s |
| 16:27.27 | KotCzarny | ffs, gfortran for libtool? |
| 16:27.29 | KotCzarny | o.O |
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| 16:39.48 | KotCzarny | <PROTECTED> |
| 16:40.03 | KotCzarny | funsies begin to creep in, time to trip the hedge |
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