IRC log for #maemo on 20160319

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08:24.18jonwilhi
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08:51.13freemangordonjonwil: hi!
08:51.41jonwilwonders if any more progress has been made on CSSU/FPTF/etc lately...
08:52.38freemangordonjonwil: there is lots of activity on the kernel lately, we're ironing the last remaining rough edges
08:53.44jonwilnice one
08:54.07jonwilWill be good if you can run a stock kernel on a N900 with a full Fremantle userland
08:54.10jonwiland have everything work
08:54.36freemangordonhmm? I think stick kernel already runs on n900 :)
08:54.41freemangordon*stock
08:55.15jonwilalthough it would also be good to see some more userspace work :)
08:55.18KotCzarnyi think the word he meant is 'mainline'
08:55.23MaxdamantusBut does Fremantle run on that?
08:55.28freemangordonsure
08:55.32freemangordon~fptf
08:55.33infoboti guess fptf is the Fremantle Porting Task Force, see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91308
08:56.06freemangordonMaxdamantus: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1493038&postcount=158
08:56.41freemangordonMaxdamantus: right now I play with 4.5-rc6
08:57.44freemangordonjonwil: yeah, but you know - 2 hands and 24 hours per day only :)
08:59.07jonwilyeah I meant mainline kernel :)
09:00.13jonwilI also have no time to do any coding work right now due to this http://brisbanemodeltrainshow.com.au/
09:00.49jonwilI am exhibiting as part of the LEGO layout at that event and I have a lot of building to do :)
09:01.46freemangordonsounds fun
09:03.04jonwilyeah it will be :)
09:05.19KotCzarnyhehe, playing with lego for moneys?
09:05.26KotCzarnynow that's the right idea ;)
09:11.27jonwilWe get no money out of that
09:11.39jonwilEveryone in the club does it for fun
09:11.54jonwilAlthough we do raise money for charitable organizations at various points across the year
09:11.56KotCzarnyoh well, still the right idea
09:13.59jonwilThe centerpiece of the work I am doing is a high-tech science lab (along the lines of Oscorp or Stark
09:14.12jonwilStark Industries
09:14.42jonwilThis lab is being attacked by Doctor Octopus and is about to be saved by Hulk, Spider-Man, Iron Man, Thor and maybe others :)
09:14.50jonwilalong with a police SWAT team
09:16.50KotCzarnyand then comes the train and flattens everything and everyone, choo-choo mother-funkers!
09:28.20Luke-Jradded Neo900 to https://www.pyra-handheld.com/wiki/index.php?title=Comparison_Chart
09:28.49KotCzarnymaybe n900 too?
09:28.54Luke-Jrnah, N900 is too obsolete
09:29.06KotCzarnyno, it's not
09:29.08KotCzarny:)
09:30.14KotCzarnypandora is 1ghz and 512mb, n900 is 600-900mhz and 256mb
09:30.25Luke-Jrexactly
09:30.34Luke-Jrand Pandora is only on there because it was the direct predecessor
09:30.39KotCzarnyand once fmg and friends tidy up the last bits we will be not-obsolete again
09:30.46Luke-JrNeo900 just only matches Pandora's specs :P
09:31.19KotCzarnybut you are right, memory is way too small for gaming
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10:35.44jonwilIs the goal to be able to use a mainline kernel on the N900 with no local patches or are there local patches that just cant go into mainline?
10:40.11Palijonwil: there are also patches which cannot go to mainline
10:40.24Palie.g. sgx drivers
10:40.24jonwilLike what?
10:40.39jonwilYeah good point
10:40.49Palior also wl1251 bt coes mode
10:40.57Pali*coex
10:41.07Palior wl1251 perm mac address
10:41.19Palithose were rejected
10:41.42jonwilwhat was wrong with that WiFi stuff exactly?
10:41.44Palino idea about tidspbridge (freemangordon knows more)
10:41.51KotCzarnycan they run as a loadable module?
10:42.00Palijonwil: stupidity of maintainers
10:42.33MaxdamantusI'd rather use a slightly different kernel tree than compile external modules.
10:42.45Paliabout bt coex, they wanted from me to create some nonsense interface in cfg/nl 80211 stack
10:43.22Palievery driver has either module param or sysfs node (wl1271 has too sysfs node)
10:43.44Palibut wl1251 cannot use what wl1271 use...
10:43.48Maxdamantusalready always has a Dvorak defkeymap in his tree.
10:44.26Paliabout setting permanent mac address, they wanted that kernel reads it
10:44.57Palibut mac address is stored in CAL, so kernel would need to have CAL driver + access to correct NAND partition
10:45.03Palithats sounds stupid too
10:45.36KotCzarnycan mac be set as a boot param?
10:46.00Palino
10:46.18Palithis was rejected when raspbeery pi wanted to upstream this approach
10:46.24KotCzarnylol
10:46.43Paliehm.. this was rejected for rpi, not for n900
10:46.55Palibut I did not tried something like that for wl1251/n900
10:47.17KotCzarnythat way uboot might be the cure
10:47.28jonwilSounds like the people who maintain the Linux WiFi driver stack are stupid for not seeing that there are WiFi chips out there that do things differently to the way most "normal" chips work
10:47.29KotCzarnyas it has a bit more lax policy
10:47.50Paliwl1271 has mac address stored in the first few bytes in firmware
10:48.09Paliin firmware file, generated by some tool
10:48.44PaliI was thinking about using request_firmware() interface too for wl1251, but request firmware and mac address separately
10:50.02Palibut because udev project is dead, and systemd decided to drop support for run-time firmware files (files which are not phisically stored in VFS, but generated when kernel ask) I would mean that we need to write our tools for loading firmwares
10:50.26Palialso wl1251 NVS firmware file needs to be generated on runtime (use some bits from CAL)
10:50.47KotCzarnypali: check eudev
10:50.54KotCzarnyit's systemd free udev fork
10:51.16Luke-JrPali: eudev isn't dead.
10:51.28Luke-JrI refuse to use a systemd OS
10:51.28PaliKotCzarny: I can check, but such thing IIRC udev did not supported
10:51.42KotCzarnypali, still, you can probably send them a patch
10:52.01Paliyes, but that means to write that code
10:52.19Paliand for n900 case it would be easier to write specific tool (not part of udev)
10:52.32Paliwhich would directly interact with CAL
10:53.11PaliLuke-Jr: do you know if (e)udev has support for generating firmware by external application?
10:53.41KotCzarnyOur IRC channel is #gentoo-udev on Freenode
10:53.49KotCzarnyhttps://wiki.gentoo.org/wiki/Project:Eudev
10:53.56Paliok, I will ask
10:54.01Luke-JrPali: I would imagine so. It's just udev
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10:57.38Palianyway, we still needs to patch kernel, because it always try to load firmware directly from VFS without userspace interaction
10:57.57Paliand when that direct-read fails, then it try userspace (via netlink)
10:58.10KotCzarnypali, can inkernel driver be modified to load special firmware which would be prepared on first boot by userland?
10:58.51PaliKotCzarny: kernel loads firmware by request_firmware("filename") call
10:59.26Paliand kernel first try to read "filename" from VFS and if it fails then it fallback asking for userspace
10:59.26KotCzarnyso at first boot kernel load fails, system boots, userland prepares firmware, on reboot/module reload things work as usual
10:59.40Paliah right
10:59.43Wizzupisn't there a firmware loader helper tool option in the kernel
10:59.47Wizzupor was that deprecated
10:59.49PaliI was thinking about it, but this is big hack
11:00.09KotCzarnypali, yup, blobs
11:00.11Paliyou need to overwrite firmware in /lib/firmware
11:00.17Paliwhich is in UBIFS/NAND
11:00.28PaliI will avoid such thing...
11:00.40KotCzarnybut its first-boot time thing
11:00.53PaliWizzup: there is that userspace fallback
11:01.15Palieither via netlink or sysfs
11:01.24Pali(maybe sysfs was deleted)
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11:02.15KotCzarnypali, how about generating random mac on boot (via some device related algo) and then changing it in userland later?
11:02.22KotCzarnythat would be another option
11:02.40PaliKotCzarny: permanent mac address cannot be modified
11:02.48Palifrom userspace
11:03.00Palikernel already generates random one
11:03.14Paliand userspace set "temporary" mac address from CAL
11:03.33KotCzarnyuhum
11:03.41Palithis is what wl1251-cal tool is doing
11:04.09Paliread mac from CAL and set it as temporary (spoofed) mac address
11:04.09KotCzarnythen i guess first-boot firmware gen would be the best (apart from doing cal/nand read)
11:04.49PaliI will wait for answer from #gentoo-udev
11:05.37Paliif that is supported from udev, I will try it and prepare kernel patches to read mac address via request_firmware (like wl1271)
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11:15.25Palijonwil: can you make yours wl1251-cal tool more verbose?
11:15.33Palilike original nokia's one?
11:15.42jonwilFeel free to update the source code on CSSU, I have no time to do it
11:15.54Paliok
11:16.01Palithen I will look at it
11:16.28Palijonwil: but is your doing 100% same thing as nokia's one?
11:16.46jonwilIts doing the same job but in a different way
11:16.56Paliok, that should be enough
11:17.46jonwilIt gets the country to use from the CAL rather than the cellular modem
11:18.40jonwilIt also uses lower level libcal calls rather than whatever higher level calls (sysinfod I think) the stock binary uses
11:19.03L29Ah13:46:18]<Pali> this was rejected when raspbeery pi wanted to upstream this approach
11:19.04L29Ahwhat about putting it in dt?
11:19.24PaliL29Ah: what put to DT?
11:20.20L29Ahthe mac address
11:20.29Palibut mac address is not static
11:20.35L29Ahwhat
11:20.48Paliit is different for each n900...
11:20.54Paliand is stored in CAL
11:21.04Palihow you want to store it into DT??
11:21.12L29Ahgenerate dt with an ad-hoc tool
11:21.18L29Ahdt overlay, even
11:21.36Palibut wl1251 driver is loaded even before userspace start
11:21.41L29Ahso what
11:21.49Paliwe have userspace tool which read mac from CAL
11:22.06Paliand no, I'm not going to create CAL driver for kernel
11:22.08L29Ahgenerate it once before using the kernel that requires it
11:22.32Palikernel boots, loads wl1251, start userspace
11:22.51L29Ahkernel boots, gets its dt stuff, loads wl1251, start userspace
11:22.52Palikernel needs it before it can start tools for generating them
11:22.59L29Ahyou have a kernel now
11:23.04L29Ahthat doesn't need nothing
11:23.09L29Ahthe original one
11:23.31PaliI do not understand how to want to solve this chicken and egg problem
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11:23.39L29Ahand anyway you can just bail out and say user to generate it in dmesg
11:23.57L29Ahif he didn't do so earlier
11:24.01PaliI do not want to add another hack
11:24.06L29Ahalso random mac would do :]
11:24.10Paliwe already have one with temporary addresses
11:24.21Palirandom permament mac is already uses
11:24.34PaliI want to solve this problem in better way
11:25.44L29Ahisn't the mac stored at some fixed offset of the mtd?
11:25.51Palino
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12:07.24KotCzarnypali, first-boot solution then or eudev one
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13:13.26DocScrutinizer05Pali: anyway keep in mind Neo900 is using wl1851 aka WG7351
13:13.48PaliDocScrutinizer05: uff.. do we have driver for it?
13:14.14DocScrutinizer05well, I bet we have, TI supports Linux drivers for all their WiFi modules afaik
13:15.16Paliok
13:16.05DocScrutinizer05http://processors.wiki.ti.com/index.php/WL18xx
13:16.16Palijonwil: original nokia's wl1251 uses com.nokia.phone.net for country code
13:16.26Palithis is missing in your implementation...
13:16.48jonwilyes, I mentioned my implementation uses cal rather than cellular modem
13:17.11jonwilgoal was to make my clone dependent only on libcal and nothing else
13:17.18jonwilwell also libnl
13:18.09DocScrutinizer05what we _don't_ have is support for the advanced modes (injection etc)
13:18.09jonwilbut not on dbus or libsysinfo or higher level stuff
13:21.17DocScrutinizer05*if* somebody could come up with a http://intelligraphics.com/igx-wireless-presents-stealth-sniffer/ to RE, we could get
13:22.47DocScrutinizer05TI cooperated with intelligraphics for those special firmwares and drivers
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13:23.52Palijonwil: are you able to add that code which ask dbus for country code?
13:24.49jonwilno, I specifically wanted to use country code from cal only and not have dependency between wl1251-cal and cellular radio stuff
13:24.51DocScrutinizer05Pali: btw Pyra uses same module ;-)
13:25.45Palijonwil: but this will break wifi connections for n900 which have country code too "restricted" stored in CAL
13:26.25Palicountry code will be set to too restricted even if you are in different country
13:39.01DocScrutinizer05((country code from CAL)) please don't! I'd have *lots* of fun with such stuff, >50% of my N900 are not exactly compatible in CAL with my location
13:40.19DocScrutinizer05I'd rather prefer a quite user friendly setting for country
13:43.51DocScrutinizer05(with right overriding left) CAL -> maemo settings "system language" -> maemo settings "Country" -> GSM country (if logged in) -> WLAN country info from associated AP -> **augmented settings** "WLAN country regulation domain" (with default)
13:54.51DocScrutinizer05dang, wrong module
13:56.21DocScrutinizer05WL1837MODGIMOC
14:07.13DocScrutinizer05http://www.ti.com/product/wl1837mod
14:13.43DocScrutinizer05http://www.digikey.com/product-detail/en/texas-instruments/WL1837MODGIMOCT/296-43667-1-ND/5864739
14:14.33DocScrutinizer05http://www.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/wl1837mod.pdf
14:15.12DocScrutinizer05Pali: ^^^
14:19.19DocScrutinizer05http://www.ti.com/product/WL1837MOD/toolssoftware
14:20.50DocScrutinizer05http://www.ti.com/tool/wilink8-wifi-nlcp
14:25.52DocScrutinizer05LOL >>Product of work done by tens of developers.<<
14:27.31kerioTENS
14:40.36DocScrutinizer05OVER9
14:41.08DocScrutinizer05000 laughs
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15:46.15DocScrutinizer05Pali: >> The WL1837MODCOM8I EVB includes the following features:  [...]  WLAN and Bluetooth , BLE, and ANT cores that are software- and hardware-compatible with prior WL127x, WL128x, and BL6450 offerings for smooth migration to device <<
15:48.16DocScrutinizer05http://www.ti.com/lit/ug/swru382a/swru382a.pdf
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17:53.18DocScrutinizer05Pali: http://paste.opensuse.org/6657073
17:54.30Paligreat!
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19:08.35Palijonwil: I updated wl1251-cal code
19:08.56Palibut country code is still missing...
19:11.57PaliLuke-Jr: it is not supported in gentoo udev
19:13.28KotCzarnyeudev is also used in slack, and probably other systemdless distros
19:15.25kerioi use devtmpfs because i'm a bad boy
19:15.42kerioand also because this is a very tiny embedded system
19:15.42KotCzarnyalso
19:16.00KotCzarnybut for dynamic things udev is still nice
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19:27.40DocScrutinizer05hey follow hacker gals and guys:  >> The WiLink 8 device's WLAN capability to capture and register precise arrival time of the connected AP’s beacon is used to achieve ultra-precise synchronization between multiple connected audio devices.<<  (from http://www.ti.com/tool/TIDC-WL1837MOD-AUDIO-MULTIROOM-CAPE ) This gives me some other ideas of possible usecases - indoor location etc comes to mind
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19:31.02DocScrutinizer05or other usecases with high precision sync requirements. e.g. electron flash snyc to camera, when both are controlled from same WLAN signal with a delay between trigger and shot in the range of a maybe 20ms so both can schedule a high precision timer event to exactly same point in time
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23:18.41OksanaSounds neat: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/TiMidity%2B%2B Curious about its Gtk2 GUI...
23:20.33OksanaWhat does timidity-daemon actually do? Take up the role of mod-player-back-end for media-player-front-end?
23:37.12ecc3gprobably workaround to existing software that needs the classical MIDI API.  So more or less...
23:37.40OksanaFor somebody: in timidity-interfaces-extra, move *.desktop from /usr/share/applications/ to /usr/share/applications/hildon/
23:44.41OksanaAlso, probably update timidity in maemo repositories from 2.13.2 to 2.14.0? Hopefully, it's not that much different...
23:52.19OksanaPali: How do I join mstardict project? It's related to http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1456805&postcount=167 I already clicked [Request to join] once at https://garage.maemo.org/projects/mstardict/
23:52.37OksanaIt was, maybe, week or even more ago...
23:53.51PaliOksana: probably some administrator must accept your request
23:54.32Pali"If you would like to contribute to this project by becoming a developer, contact one of the project admins, designated in bold text below."
23:54.40PaliI'm not project admin :-(

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