IRC log for #maemo on 20160312

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01:11.50PaliLuke-Jr: it builds fine for me...
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11:38.01mp107Welcome. I have a question about blocking an access to maemo.org from 5.172.247.128-255 IP address pool.
11:38.35mp107They are assigned to the Polish network Aero2 offering free Internet access.
11:38.59KotCzarnyand being free it also means bad people abusing it for spam
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11:39.50mp107Unfortunately I have to agree.
11:40.14fredddI am considering selling my N900. Does anyone know any recommendation price and a good place to sell such an old device? It is in working condition, no malfunctions or screen scratches, pen included.
11:41.02L29Ahebay.com
11:41.13mp107But is there really so much amount of abuse from those IP addresses?
11:41.54L29Ahyeah so much abuse that you can't even get a readonly access ;)
11:42.31L29Ahactually has to get to maemo.org thru tor as it looks less abusive by its admins it seems
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11:44.19NIN101tor is also regularly blocked, at least by TMO
11:44.38NIN101quite ironic for this community, you could at least allow GET requests.
11:45.20mp107But are those blockages temporary or constant?
11:45.33NIN101I am sure they are constant.
11:47.05fredddpokes ceene "hey little boy, want to buy some candy?" * swings N900 at him *
11:47.50L29Ahpass it to your children
11:48.05fredddI would have to put an Apple sticker on it for that to happen.
11:48.09fredddEven then ...
11:48.21fredddIf it is not <1mm in thickness they will start raising questions.
11:52.05WizzupI usually pay 40-80 euro for second hand n900s
11:56.40ceenefreddd: how much do you ak for it?
11:56.53ceeneshipping costs will be high, though
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11:57.50ceenelatest one i bought was 30 euro
12:14.38L29Ahfound a thread about changing imei on tmo
12:14.48L29Ah16 pages worth of moralfags and not a byte to send
12:26.38fredddceene most likely not much.
12:26.42MaxdamantusWhat else would you expect? Instructions on actually changing the IMEI?
12:26.50fredddI am thinking 30 - 50 euros.
12:26.57fredddI think that is not much?
12:27.07fredddEverything still works. Screen has no scratches.
12:27.16fredddRecently put a new battery in it.
12:28.46L29AhMaxdamantus: sure
12:30.07L29Ahi've recently got an lte modem and needed to change its imei so i could buy a cheaper mobile phone-aiming unlimited internet plan, googled it in a few seconds on some russian forum
12:30.43L29Ahnow i have an iphone 5 :3
12:31.07ceenefreddd: why don't you keep it?
12:31.19ceeneyou could help me code yappari :P
12:31.46ceeneor help with the kernel so we get to run modern glibc and all that
12:32.47ceenei'm quite tired lately to d anything fun, works drains all my coding energy
12:33.07KotCzarnyfreddd: you can post on talk.maemo.org in buy/sell section
12:37.36fredddceene, software compatibility is the only thing. :(
12:38.15ceenewhich software are you missing?
12:38.19fredddAuthenticators.
12:38.36ceenewhats's that?
12:38.48fredddSteam recently enforced a trading limit (15 day item hold on market) unless you use their authenticator (built-in into Steam Mobile, not available seperate).
12:39.01KotCzarnyfreddd, vnc?
12:39.05fredddVNC?
12:39.08KotCzarnyand android emulator on pc
12:39.19fredddKotCzarny I am looking for convenient and modern solutions.
12:39.36fredddNot the hacky way.
12:39.38KotCzarnywrite to steam for a linux client?
12:39.58fredddIt was an example, one of many.
12:40.11fredddI enjoy the game Clash of Clan as well.
12:40.11L29Ahi wonder how poking a bazillion of devices to make a trade considered convenient
12:40.17ceenesomeone reposted all files for running nitdroid
12:40.21L29Ahmodern maybe (:
12:40.27KotCzarnythen as i said, on pc run virtualbox with vnc enabled, inside run linux with android emulator
12:40.35fredddL29Ah blame the scammers and people who fall for the scams.
12:40.40KotCzarnythen just connect n900 with vnc to that virtual
12:40.56fredddThat is a hacker's solution.
12:40.57L29Ahnah i'll just blame steam users
12:41.05KotCzarnyand i bet it would work better than having client for everything
12:41.06fredddI use N900 as a convenience (right now all it runs is Yappari).
12:41.20KotCzarnywhen you can use ssh and vnc to get access to gigs of mem/storage
12:41.53KotCzarnyalso, n900 IS a hacker's device
12:42.01fredddI never used it as such.
12:42.07fredddI do not code on it.
12:42.12fredddI do not terminal on it (I tried, too inconvenient).
12:42.21KotCzarnyyou can be a hacker without coding too
12:42.29fredddThe way I SSH on desktop is not as pleasant as on N900.
12:42.36fredddI can not imagine anyone doing mainstream server management SSH on it.
12:42.41fredddMaybe here and there check upon something.
12:43.11ceenea full on keyboard is better, of course
12:43.26ceenebut i use n900 a lot to ssh into things
12:43.46fredddFor?
12:43.48fredddUpdating?
12:44.09ceenelots of things
12:44.15ceenec coding
12:44.24ceenesystem administraton things
12:44.49ceenesometimes i'm to lazy to go for the laptop
12:45.02fredddI move to my desktop for that. Or laptop. I get too annoyed by how slow it would be on phone.
12:45.06fredddEven using IRC on phone annoyed me.
12:45.23fredddThe messaging has been utmost wonderful on this device since I had it.
12:45.59KotCzarnyi use n900 as a phone/audio player mostly, with occasional ssh/shell things/www
12:46.29KotCzarnyand toilet gaming device too, last but not least
12:46.30KotCzarny;)
12:46.59MaxdamantusSo which one is least?
12:47.11KotCzarnygaming
12:47.16KotCzarnyerm
12:47.25KotCzarnyleast is email
12:47.28KotCzarnynever used it
12:47.37Maxdamantususes email over ssh.
12:47.45ceenemodest is depressively bad
12:48.06fredddSO CEENE HOW MUCH YOU WANT IT FOR HUH?
12:48.21ceenefreddd: i don't think i want another one yet
12:48.26freddd>:C
12:48.27ceenei got two
12:48.36ceeneunless it's almost free
12:48.42ceenebut that wouldn't be fair
12:48.45fredddssh's into ceene's N900 and executes self-destroy.sh
12:48.59ceene:)
12:49.12fredddUhm ceene so there is this cool app in the store that involves throwing your N900 in the air as high as you can
12:49.26fredddYou should try it out.
12:49.50KotCzarnyit works, as long you are a good catcher
12:49.57L29Ahhow is it named?
12:50.02KotCzarnyflyn900
12:50.04KotCzarnyor something
12:50.10ceenei'm not a good catcher, nor a good thower either
12:50.17fredddIt has been on there since pretty early on N900 release.
12:50.30KotCzarnyhttp://my-maemo.com/software/applications.php?fldAuto=1043&faq=47
12:50.38fredddPretty sure secrelty Nokia endorsed (or manufactured).
12:52.58mp107I am curious how that app has been debugged/developed etc.
12:53.16KotCzarnyon a trampoline?
12:53.18fredddtrampoline park?
12:53.25KotCzarnymaybe beach
12:53.38L29Ah> i hope you have Insurance :D my n900 broke but i get new from Insurance
12:53.42L29Ahcan i haz that thing?
12:54.18KotCzarnyslightly offtopic: https://mosh.mit.edu/
12:54.39fredddStop hijacking my ceene N900 sale thread!
12:54.43L29Ahcan it do vi-like editing?
12:54.46fredddceene how high did you get yours to fly?
12:54.57KotCzarnyl29ah: sure, you just have to run vi
12:55.20fredddI tried to learn vi, I cried, and nano hugged me better.
12:55.29ceenefreddd: i offer 5 euro plus shipping
12:55.42DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/packages/view/n900fly/
12:55.42fredddshipping is like 6 euros insured id be at a loss here :(
12:56.05ceene15 euros total max, then
12:56.13KotCzarnyfreddd: imaging it a donation for open source
12:56.16fredddI think I rather try to get world record flyn900 instead.
12:56.18KotCzarny*imagine
12:56.27L29Ahthere should be an online high score board
12:56.42KotCzarnyl29ah: pics or it didnt happen
12:56.59L29Ahyeah it should take pics every second
12:57.01KotCzarnyalso, i bet there would be cheaters using mechanical aids
12:57.22fredddthrow it off the eifel tower, have a catcher at the bottom
12:57.31mp107Parachute?
12:57.31L29Ahget the catcher killed
12:57.36KotCzarnyfreddd: it measures both times, ascending+descending
12:57.41fredddoh
12:58.12ceenegravity says both times are equal
12:58.26KotCzarnyceene: parachute?
12:58.40KotCzarnyair friction?
12:58.44fredddputs on an evil smirk, knowing what he has started here ...
12:59.02fredddI announce official n900fly championship.
12:59.14KotCzarnyfreddd: no worries, n900 is quite resilient device
12:59.23MaxdamantusPresumably it works on the difference in deceleration due to air resistance.
12:59.28mp107Imagine N900 on ISS...
12:59.28fredddI know it flung many directions many times over the years.
12:59.29KotCzarnyas long it doesnt land on screen
12:59.37fredddHaving it on my bed and flinging open the bed sheets.
12:59.40fredddWoosh.
12:59.43DocScrutinizer05>> when the phone lands, the time of  flight and respective distance, considering the phone travelled the  same distance going up and down, are shown.<< you can half the value for one way travels, you also can keep the phone in your pocket and see how high or how deep you jumped
12:59.44MaxdamantusDisregarding the air resistance, there isn't any force exerted on the device.
12:59.44fredddTo the floor it goes.
12:59.46fredddNo harm done.
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13:00.03fredddGuys, too much science, just throw it in the air already.
13:00.19MaxdamantusI guess it could just be based on the initial and final acceleration too, as you throw and catch it.
13:01.09fredddThis app has been made 2009. So the guy who bought his N900 must have had the first thought of wanting to throw it in the air of joy.
13:01.12fredddAnd measure his joy.
13:01.15KotCzarnymaxd: what about landing with side bump?
13:01.30Maxdamantusside bump?
13:01.43KotCzarnykind of bad catch
13:01.44DocScrutinizer05as already mentioned you can carry the phone in your pocket
13:02.15DocScrutinizer05which probably is rather interesting for e.g. parcours
13:02.19L29Ahi wonder if i can fuck the system by rotating it on a rope
13:02.23KotCzarnythen it will slow only partially
13:02.32DocScrutinizer05huh?
13:02.35MaxdamantusL29Ah: rotating it?
13:02.41L29Ahyeah
13:02.43KotCzarnyl29ah: go for it, freddd waits for a new customer
13:02.44MaxdamantusL29Ah: using centrifugal force?
13:02.45L29Ahrotation = acceleration
13:02.47L29Ahyep
13:02.53DocScrutinizer05so what?
13:02.54MaxdamantusL29Ah: but it should be in freefall.
13:02.59MaxdamantusL29Ah: freefall = no acceleration
13:03.07Maxdamantuswhen it's flying through the air, it's not accelerating.
13:03.16L29Ahsure it's accelerating
13:03.22DocScrutinizer05???
13:03.34MaxdamantusIt's following a geodesic.
13:03.43DocScrutinizer05when device is flying, it has 0g
13:04.02DocScrutinizer05N900fly measures duration of 0g
13:04.09L29Ahwat
13:04.15MaxdamantusL29Ah: put your N900 on a flat surface and look at the accelerometer.
13:04.19MaxdamantusL29Ah: it should show 1 g.
13:04.31ceeneif it doesn't follow a rectilinear trajectory, then it's accelerating
13:04.31KotCzarnymaxd: - friction
13:04.36MaxdamantusL29Ah: because that surface, if attached to the Earth, is accelerating upwards at 1 g.
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13:04.44DocScrutinizer05ceene: please!
13:05.06Maxdamantusceene: it is following a rectilinear trajectory.
13:05.12KotCzarnymaxd: you are forgetting air resistance
13:05.12ceene(or decelerating)
13:05.24Maxdamantusceene: a rectilinear trajectory in special relativity is a geodesic.
13:05.32KotCzarnyevery item has its own final speed
13:05.33DocScrutinizer05ceene: the accelerometer measures force to the case, simply spoken
13:05.39KotCzarnythen air just stop the acceleration
13:05.42ceenenot if you attach it to a rope
13:05.43Maxdamantusceene: spacetime is curved.
13:05.43KotCzarny*stops
13:05.56DocScrutinizer05as long as no force to case, the whole device is an inertial system
13:06.24KotCzarnyconstant speed == no accel
13:06.45L29Ahok so accelerometer doesn't measure acceleration, but a force on a spring-suspended object
13:06.54DocScrutinizer05exactly
13:07.13MaxdamantusNo. That's not right.
13:07.21MaxdamantusGravity doesn't directly cause acceleration.
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13:07.33KotCzarnymaxd: lol
13:07.40DocScrutinizer05that spring suspended object is a tiny mass inside the accelerometer
13:07.45MaxdamantusWhen a meteor is flying towards the Earth, it's not accelerating.
13:07.50KotCzarnygravity == force, accel == force vector != 0
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13:08.06MaxdamantusIt accelerates when it hits the Earth and the structure of the Earth pushes it back.
13:08.22KotCzarnymaxd: you know gravity is not limited?
13:08.23L29Ah-144 -234 -1062
13:08.27L29Ahcalibration looks sucky
13:08.29KotCzarnynear zero but not zero?
13:08.31Maxdamantusjust as the structure of the Earth pushes us up, because it's preventing itself from collapsing, as it would do if it didn't accelerate.
13:08.42DocScrutinizer05L29Ah: no, you don't hold it 'flat'
13:08.43L29Ahas it's just lying tilted on a table
13:08.50KotCzarnywhich means earth's gravity does things on every thing in the universe
13:08.59KotCzarnyunmeasurable but it's there
13:09.22ceenewe can now measure gravitational waves
13:09.30KotCzarnyas an engineer you can always put near zero as zero
13:09.33DocScrutinizer05not with N900
13:09.54DocScrutinizer05unless they get waaaaaaaaay stronger than what we seen so far
13:10.25ceeneso let's use a cluster of n900 :)
13:10.33KotCzarnyit doesnt work that way
13:10.48Maxdamantusceene: yes. We can also measure tides.
13:11.06L29AhDocScrutinizer05: sure but it can't be more than 1000
13:11.12Maxdamantus“Einstein proposed that spacetime is curved by matter, and that free-falling objects are moving along locally straight paths in curved spacetime. These straight paths are called geodesics.”
13:12.02KotCzarnythey are curved beyond any recognition
13:12.06L29Ahspacetime has curved my n900 during n900fly
13:12.26L29Ahfucking einstein
13:13.07KotCzarnyit also curved you
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13:23.10ceenehttps://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=815006
13:23.18ceeneso firefox is back on debian
13:23.49KotCzarnyicewasel in jessie is ~37
13:23.56KotCzarnywhich is weird
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13:45.23MaxdamantusHm. So far reading the thread below, it seems unclear that it's going to happen.
13:46.19Maxdamantus“I still think we are approaching something dangerous. Sure, we might have the ability to make these patches which Mozilla doesn't think misuse their trademark, but what about users who want to make a heavier modification and redistribute?”
13:46.36MaxdamantusI was always under the impression that was the exact reason for the rebranding.
13:46.56MaxdamantusOf course Mozilla is going to be okay with the changes Debian themselves make.
13:47.34Maxdamantusbut Debian wants to enable pretty much any changes of their software to be used.
13:48.08KotCzarnyi run firefox unmodified, what changes one could want?
13:49.12MaxdamantusIf you run it unmodified you probably either compiled it yourself (in which case you're not distributing binaries, so there aren't any TM issues there), or you're using the binaries provided by Mozilla.
13:49.32Maxdamantuss/not/probably not/
13:50.07KotCzarnyyes, but i ask what changes they are talking about
13:50.16MaxdamantusWho?
13:51.16KotCzarny'users who want to make a heavier modification'
13:51.34MaxdamantusSo the person I quoted.
13:52.28MaxdamantusChanging it so it's full of ads.
13:52.46KotCzarnyads?
13:52.49KotCzarnywtf?
13:52.53MaxdamantusAdvertisements.
13:53.00MaxdamantusFor some political cause or something.
13:53.42MaxdamantusMozilla probably wouldn't want people distributing debian packages called "Firefox" with ads everywhere.
13:54.09Maxdamantusbut people should be able to make such derivations of Debian packages.
14:04.11MaxdamantusI guess the argument is that once you make those modifications you just have to rebrand your package.
14:04.37Maxdamantussleeps.
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