| 00:05.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((<DocScrutinizer05> on unrelated OT sidenote: deadbeef is an awesome music player)) OH WOW!! >> What other portable devices does Deadbeef run on? --- People succeeded to build and run it on Pandora and N900.<< |
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| 01:57.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | sends some gravitational waves through the channel |
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| 07:41.37 | brolin_empey | DocScrutinizer05: Does deadbeef use COW? ;-) |
| 07:49.23 | brolin_empey | My Socket A tower computer that has been used since year 2002 seems to be more reliable than my Socket T (LGA775) tower computer that has been used since year 2009. :-/ |
| 07:49.43 | KotCzarny | and more slow at that |
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| 07:54.30 | brolin_empey | Neither computer still has the original hardware configuration even though they both still have at least the original case, motherboard, CPU. |
| 07:56.57 | brolin_empey | I do not think I have ever had a genuine IBM/Lenovo motherboard fail. |
| 07:57.18 | KotCzarny | well, its been 14 years |
| 07:57.27 | KotCzarny | electronic components can fail |
| 08:01.20 | brolin_empey | KotCzarny: I did not mean to imply that either of these computers has an IBM/Lenovo motherboard. The Socket A motherboard is from MSI and the Socket T motherboard is from Asus. |
| 08:02.14 | KotCzarny | doesnt matter, electronics are bound to entropy as everything else |
| 08:06.47 | brolin_empey | â[15:18:34] <brolin_empey> KotCzarny: I know what mSATA is. Which âcontroller chip issueâ do you mean?â Time stamp is for America/Vancouver (Pacific time zone, UTC -8 hours). |
| 08:07.29 | KotCzarny | think about it: there has to be chip to convert sata signal into pata, right? |
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| 08:08.59 | brolin_empey | KotCzarny: Yes. So what? |
| 08:09.04 | KotCzarny | but im happy with ~80MB/s transfers on my box because my x40 flies |
| 08:09.25 | KotCzarny | and i think part of the bottleneck is pata chip on laptop |
| 08:09.30 | zGrr | moin |
| 08:11.23 | brolin_empey | KotCzarny: So what is this âcontroller chip issueâ you mentioned? |
| 08:11.58 | KotCzarny | just that, dont expect hundreds of megs of transfer |
| 08:14.10 | brolin_empey | KotCzarny: AFAIK, the theoretical maximum throughput for last-generation PATA (using UDMA transfer mode) is only 133 MB/s (or MiB/s?). |
| 08:14.36 | KotCzarny | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:15.05 | KotCzarny | <PROTECTED> |
| 08:15.14 | KotCzarny | Model=SAMSUNG SSD PM830 mSATA 32GB |
| 08:15.41 | KotCzarny | but its more than enough for a snappy x40 |
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| 08:24.14 | brolin_empey | So, since I last asked months ago, has anyone made a fanless >=80686 notebook computer that uses the IBM Personal Computer-compatible BIOS instead of EFI (or at least EFI with CSM and ability to disable âSecure Bootâ (sic)) and that has a proper/decent integrated display instead of Yet Another⢠pathetic TN AMLCD panel? And that can boot and run from removable non-volatile memory? And that preferably has removable main memory? |
| 08:25.53 | kerio | right up to the last requirement i was going to suggest the 2015 macbook |
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| 08:28.14 | brolin_empey | kerio: You suggested the year 2015 MacBook the last time I asked. |
| 08:28.19 | kerio | :D |
| 08:29.30 | KotCzarny | brolin, thinkpad x61t (tablets had ips/flexview afair) |
| 08:30.28 | KotCzarny | not sure if all models tho |
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| 08:32.14 | brolin_empey | s/removable non-volatile memory/internal removable non-volatile memory/ |
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| 11:07.53 | ceene | aargh how much i hate yappari and whatsapp |
| 11:09.19 | KotCzarny | :> |
| 11:11.21 | ceene | i'm on the brink of throwing it all out of the window |
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| 11:19.43 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 11:19.48 | KotCzarny | textsecure or something more? |
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| 12:31.57 | Sicelo | ceene: what's up? or whatsapp? :) |
| 12:33.34 | buZz | ceene: i already did |
| 12:33.43 | buZz | fuck communicating over anything that isnt email or irc |
| 12:35.48 | Sicelo | buZz: ceene is currently one of most respected devs, haha. because people do use yappari so much. some even ready to ditch N900 if yappari cannot be maintained :p |
| 12:36.20 | Sicelo | not saying that's a good reason to keep working on it, or that other devs aren't popular ... |
| 12:36.39 | buZz | ? |
| 12:36.50 | buZz | i dont get your trail of thought |
| 12:37.57 | Sicelo | if you or i quit whatsapp, only one (or two) persons affected. if ceene does, maybe 60 or more % N900 users.. |
| 12:38.49 | buZz | good |
| 12:38.58 | buZz | let them suffer of their centralized chat solutions |
| 12:39.41 | Sicelo | lol. |
| 12:41.50 | Sicelo | personally i'd be happy if i had to only use irc, but everyone i know looks at it with such wide eyes you'd think they saw a ghost |
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| 12:49.25 | KotCzarny | sicelo, make them install pidgin or something with irc integrated and just coerce into it |
| 13:02.51 | Sicelo | easier said than done hey. more than half of my family are using Ashas for example, and whatsapp is bundled in :) |
| 13:04.23 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 13:04.31 | KotCzarny | evil bundle power |
| 13:19.24 | Sicelo | i had secretly hoped textsecure wouldn't be implemented in S40 whatsapp, but it is. if it wasn't, maybe whatsapp.inc would not push message encryption the way they have |
| 13:27.45 | ceene | now people can't register |
| 13:27.59 | ceene | there's some broken thingy that i've yet to discover |
| 13:28.15 | KotCzarny | at least they are not banned for being not able to register |
| 13:28.26 | KotCzarny | or are they? |
| 13:28.27 | ceene | also, textsecure libs won't compile on fremantle_x86, so i'll have trouble debugging it |
| 13:28.44 | ceene | nope, it's more low level than that, some ssl stuff |
| 13:28.52 | ceene | so no bans |
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| 13:48.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: tell thenm that's a new whatapp client that even doesn't need phone number and can run on PC without phone tethering |
| 13:48.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P |
| 13:54.00 | Sicelo | DocScrutinizer05: i think that's one of the "problems" ... stuff like whatsapp/facebook, etc has allowed people to communicate wthiout needing to configure aything really. |
| 13:54.30 | Sicelo | same reason that browsers have taken over all computing |
| 13:54.39 | KotCzarny | so the problem is 'the people' |
| 13:54.52 | Sicelo | yes |
| 13:55.01 | KotCzarny | sisters, mothers :P |
| 13:55.28 | Sicelo | and how do you fix them? you can't easily. you end up forced to 'lower your standards' so to speak :) |
| 13:55.41 | KotCzarny | not entirely true |
| 13:56.08 | KotCzarny | irc is almost 'no configure' |
| 13:56.19 | KotCzarny | and there is 'chatzilla' extension |
| 13:56.24 | KotCzarny | all clicky happy |
| 13:57.36 | Sicelo | 1. you look for a client among dozens of possibilities. 2. you choose a network among dozens too. 3. you find a server for the network ... |
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| 13:58.57 | KotCzarny | sicelo, 1/ chatzilla, 2/ ircnet or freenode. 3 is part of the 2 and is usually round robin dns |
| 13:59.06 | Sicelo | fwiw, i hate the fact that browsers are basically taking over everything. i still believe in proper irc lient, email client, rss reader, etc. but really, the vast majority is quite okay to have your firefox and nothing else |
| 13:59.39 | Sicelo | KotCzarny: having got on Freenode, they find geeks, not friends :) |
| 13:59.58 | Sicelo | that's the other problem |
| 14:00.53 | ceene | curiously enough, on mobile phones every website insists that you install their app |
| 14:01.26 | Sicelo | still usually a front-end to the website anyway (most) |
| 14:01.29 | ceene | so in handheld devices most of the work ends up being done on the device because you're running an app that uses your storage space |
| 14:01.56 | ceene | while on your computer which has larger memory, more computing power, etc, you end up using web based applications |
| 14:02.03 | KotCzarny | geeks can be (geeky) friends too |
| 14:02.07 | ceene | it's quite nuts |
| 14:02.43 | KotCzarny | as for app mess, i still like console ones |
| 14:03.01 | KotCzarny | ie. my irc and message network is text based |
| 14:04.16 | Sicelo | same here. even on N900, mutt+irssi, etc ;) |
| 14:05.40 | KotCzarny | + screen |
| 14:05.56 | Sicelo | for the server, yes. |
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| 14:24.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: guess how much I configured in my IRC client before joining first channel |
| 14:24.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | hint: freenode been in the presets already |
| 14:26.06 | ceene | DocScrutinizer05: and how do you know who you want to talk to? |
| 14:26.30 | ceene | compare that with "i just have your phone number and by magic your name appears on my screen and i can talk to you" |
| 14:26.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | how do you know in wattsapp? just because the fucking shit soies on you and everybody else |
| 14:27.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | spies even |
| 14:27.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | spys? |
| 14:27.33 | ceene | a user doesn't care |
| 14:27.39 | ceene | my mom just wants to talk with me |
| 14:27.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | the tell her you're ceene |
| 14:28.23 | ceene | yeah, and when she wants to talk to her brother? |
| 14:28.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | you had to tell her your phone number to, no? |
| 14:28.36 | ceene | or with her aunt who lives in another city? |
| 14:28.48 | ceene | she has had my phone number since years now |
| 14:28.58 | ceene | she hasn't changed her phone number ever |
| 14:29.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | oh well, she had your name even longer |
| 14:29.07 | ceene | nor her brother nor her family |
| 14:29.42 | ceene | so when her cousin with whom she doesn't speak much just wants to send her a photo of whatever |
| 14:29.45 | ceene | she just does it |
| 14:29.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly phonenumber. So 1980 |
| 14:30.19 | ceene | yeah, not that it's the optimal thing, but since it's been around since 1980 and her phone number hasn't changed since before then, it's convenient |
| 14:30.59 | ceene | what does she have to do, use the phone to call every person she knows and ask them which their IRC nick is? |
| 14:31.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | tzz, how's that a reason for requiring a *phonenumber* for a service that allows me to register with my clear name |
| 14:31.11 | ceene | why would she do that if she can just use the phone number right away? |
| 14:31.56 | ceene | now she has to keep two handles that identify everyone: the phone number and the nick, and what for? |
| 14:32.13 | ceene | do i have to notify everyone whenever i decide to change my nick? |
| 14:32.25 | joerg_rw | what nick? |
| 14:32.29 | ceene | i don't change phone numbers and i don't want to because i'd have to tell the new one to everybody |
| 14:32.42 | ceene | i don't know who you are, joerg_rw |
| 14:32.45 | ceene | you're just someone |
| 14:32.50 | ceene | who may or may not be my son |
| 14:32.56 | joerg_rw | because you didn't give borth to me |
| 14:33.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | now I'm you |
| 14:33.10 | joerg_rw | hardly |
| 14:33.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | how shall I explain that to mem? |
| 14:33.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | do you think my mom cares? |
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| 14:33.37 | ceene | :) |
| 14:33.41 | ceene | if my mom saw that |
| 14:33.46 | ceene | she'd be calling the police |
| 14:33.56 | ceene | thinking someone has kidnapped me, you, or killed both of us |
| 14:34.16 | ceene | really, you can't compare the ease of use of whatsapp with irc |
| 14:34.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | you can't compare the evilness either |
| 14:34.56 | ceene | my mom doesn't even know itt's evil, and to be honest, it's not so evil for her |
| 14:35.31 | ceene | lots of people just shout at their phones thinking that since the other party is in another city the voice has to reach them |
| 14:35.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | I won't register to a service that already knows my name and address and all my potential contacts simly from spying on all my conatcts' phonebooks |
| 14:35.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | when I just tell them my *phonenumber* |
| 14:36.03 | ceene | i understand that you won't |
| 14:36.09 | ceene | but how many people do? |
| 14:36.11 | ceene | how many people care? |
| 14:36.17 | ceene | people in fact like that |
| 14:36.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, *I* care |
| 14:36.36 | ceene | they do the least possible effort and they have instant communication with all the people they know |
| 14:36.48 | ceene | like it or not, that's convenient, and people like that |
| 14:36.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | and Iprolly will bash up a few "friends" eventually |
| 14:37.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | I didn't gibve my phonenumber and address to them for them sharing it to fackebook or wattsapp |
| 14:39.22 | ceene | you go and explain that to them |
| 14:39.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'll do, right away |
| 14:40.13 | ceene | and then they'll continue using these evil thingies no matter what |
| 14:40.25 | ceene | because they're convinient |
| 14:40.38 | ceene | s/convinient/convenient/ |
| 14:41.08 | ceene | yours is a fight I respect, but which has already been lost |
| 14:42.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'll just explain them why they get a good kick from me, for already having shared *my* data to wattsapp for *their* 'convenience' |
| 14:43.19 | ceene | "but it's not a big deal, why do you care?" |
| 14:43.53 | ceene | "i haven't shared my data with anyone" |
| 14:44.03 | ceene | "i just installed whatsapp, i didn't even talk to you" |
| 14:44.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | if any of my so called friends is stupid enough to ask that, I'll hand him a link to some imgur snapshots so they'll learn how it feels when other people upload your data to the web |
| 14:45.27 | ceene | but they don't even know they've uploaded any data of yours |
| 14:45.33 | ceene | they've just installed whatsapp |
| 14:45.45 | ceene | they happened to have your phone number in their phonebook |
| 14:45.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | if I can't already find some appropriate snapshot, I'll take one of me kicking their ass |
| 14:45.52 | ceene | and that got shared |
| 14:45.58 | ceene | but they didn't do anything |
| 14:49.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually I'm now tempted to register with watsap just to check what are my 'friends' |
| 14:50.56 | ceene | you do understand that they don't even suspect there's something remotely wrong, right? |
| 14:54.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | is this my fault? |
| 14:54.52 | ceene | not at all |
| 14:55.03 | ceene | but i don't think it's theirs either |
| 14:55.45 | Sicelo | :) |
| 14:55.51 | Sicelo | ceene: +1 |
| 14:56.06 | Sicelo | and yes, i wish the sitatuion was different. |
| 14:56.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, nobody is responsible for own stupidity |
| 14:56.33 | ceene | it's not stupidity |
| 14:56.40 | ceene | you do know how your car works? |
| 14:56.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 14:56.52 | ceene | i don't believe you |
| 14:57.04 | ceene | you don't even know how many lines of code there are in your car |
| 14:57.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | your problem, you don't know |
| 14:57.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | me |
| 14:57.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | you're sure about that? |
| 14:57.30 | ceene | unless your car is from the 80s, as your phone number :) |
| 14:57.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually I can tell you exactly how many LOC were in my last car |
| 14:58.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, it was from 1989 |
| 14:58.09 | ceene | and can you tell me the same thing about the elevator at your home or at work? |
| 14:58.23 | ceene | come on, we don't even have all the source of the n900 |
| 14:58.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, but we have the fineprint |
| 14:58.43 | ceene | even your fridge now has microcontrollers on it |
| 14:58.48 | ceene | and nobody gives a damn |
| 14:59.00 | ceene | your fridge could have a microphone for all you know |
| 14:59.06 | Wizzup | not really |
| 14:59.19 | Wizzup | you can take these things apart, and many things are not IOT connected at all |
| 14:59.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | my fridge has microbes but no microcontrolers ;-D |
| 14:59.28 | KotCzarny | ceene, you know that your data got used when you get: 1/ mail spam, 2/ phone spam, 3/ email spam, etc |
| 14:59.52 | KotCzarny | if you want to explain id privacy, you explain it via spam |
| 14:59.52 | Wizzup | KotCzarny: 4/ killed? :) |
| 15:00.03 | KotCzarny | wizzup: depends on the data stolen ;) |
| 15:00.20 | ceene | KotCzarny: nobody cares about spam as long as the "gee meil thingy" removes it |
| 15:00.30 | ceene | i don't care about electronic spam, i filter it out |
| 15:00.34 | KotCzarny | ceene, ever got phone spam? |
| 15:00.38 | KotCzarny | with the 'offers' ? |
| 15:00.39 | ceene | i care a hell lot more about people leaving leaflets on my car |
| 15:00.43 | ceene | that get wet when it rains |
| 15:00.49 | KotCzarny | or just random numbers disconnecting instantly? |
| 15:00.58 | KotCzarny | spam is bad |
| 15:01.17 | ceene | sure, but does it mean my phone number has been leaked, or does it mean that someone has set up a wardialer and is just dialing random numbers of my area? |
| 15:01.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | at my car, those who leave the leaflets are the ones who get wet |
| 15:01.32 | ceene | DocScrutinizer05: are you Chuck Norris? |
| 15:01.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | I am known by many names ;-P |
| 15:01.51 | ceene | that'd explain a lot of things about your willingness to kick so many asses |
| 15:02.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | but my car can do such tricks without me helping on it |
| 15:02.50 | KotCzarny | ceene, anyway, there is a msg network 'gadu-gadu', where you get registered by some random number, and guess what, people exchange those numbers to find their friends, so its not the reson not to use irc |
| 15:02.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | just add a switch to windshield wiper and connect it to the water jet |
| 15:03.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | for added fun, connect the ignition to the wiper arm |
| 15:03.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | so dude gets wet at top and at bottom |
| 15:03.42 | ceene | KotCzarny: and here we are on irc, the existence of alternatives doesn't mean whatsapp is simply convenient and easy to use |
| 15:04.06 | KotCzarny | ceene, yes, but guess what, its not about simplicity, but popularity |
| 15:04.16 | KotCzarny | it gets bundled etc |
| 15:04.24 | ceene | KotCzarny: the value of the network is n^2 blah blah |
| 15:04.31 | ceene | but somehow it got to reach a big N |
| 15:04.48 | ceene | and it got to a certain point because it was easier than the alternatives |
| 15:04.51 | ceene | and maybe a bit of luck |
| 15:04.59 | KotCzarny | and lots of ads |
| 15:05.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm from a socialization context where people didn't even dare to write down phone numbers into a paper book |
| 15:06.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | so are my friends - at least those who actually got my phone number |
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| 15:07.52 | Sicelo | never saw a whatsapp ad in my region. |
| 15:08.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | _we_ were the people our parents warned us to ever talk to |
| 15:09.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | the hippies, punks, whatever. And we all knew one thing: don't ever disclose any info to authorities or public |
| 15:10.43 | KotCzarny | anyway, it also depends on the usage, if your friends are geeks, you go irc/ml, gamers have steam, work people have emails/gtalk/jabber |
| 15:11.01 | KotCzarny | WA is probably some hipster/teen movement that grew out of its cove |
| 15:11.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | we accepted fines of several 100s of bucks just because we didn't agree to tell the dude doing the census anything about us |
| 15:12.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datei:Volkszählung_1987.jpg |
| 15:13.47 | ceene | Es ist keine Datei dieses Namens vorhanden. |
| 15:13.48 | ceene | Dateiverwendung |
| 15:14.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Volkszählung_in_der_Bundesrepublik_Deutschland_1987 |
| 15:14.29 | KotCzarny | utf borkage |
| 15:15.05 | ceene | disambiguation page i guess |
| 15:15.11 | ceene | can't read german |
| 15:15.56 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 15:16.12 | KotCzarny | kind of 404 in wiki |
| 15:19.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's just a tiny bit of info that shows there's not a general "nobody cares" at least in my generation, when it comes to privacy and data |
| 15:20.17 | ceene | today that may be true only for small sectors of the populace |
| 15:20.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | I can't educate the whole world, or just the youth of whole Germany, but I can expect those of my age are aware of the risks of 'computers' and read the fineprint of apps like watsap |
| 15:21.08 | Sicelo | not this side :) |
| 15:21.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly when they consider themselves my friends |
| 15:27.01 | ceene | if it makes you any happy, yappari is really on the verge now |
| 15:27.02 | ceene | :P |
| 15:28.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | it made me happy that yappari prolly is one of the very few watsap apps that didn't covertly share all phonebook data to the USA |
| 15:28.37 | ceene | oh, but maybe it does! |
| 15:28.42 | ceene | i'm sure you haven't read all the code :P |
| 15:28.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | I didn't - thus 'prolly' |
| 15:29.00 | ceene | maybe i'm under CIA's paycheck |
| 15:29.37 | ceene | i should offer myself maybe |
| 15:30.58 | KotCzarny | well, your data is already in the internet thanks to google |
| 15:30.58 | ceene | maybe they'd help me know why the hell this thing now can't read a simple http reply |
| 15:31.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw I wouldn't read any code, since I also had to verify that the binary is actually built from that code and only that code. I'd simply run it under strace |
| 15:31.21 | KotCzarny | passive profiling is an amazing thing |
| 15:31.37 | ceene | well, i don't really know for sure, either... i upload the code to the autobuilder |
| 15:31.54 | KotCzarny | autobuilder can build blobs too i guess |
| 15:31.56 | ceene | maybe it takes all that time to be ready because someone manually inserts backdoors :) |
| 15:32.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | I *could* check that, but I won't ;-) |
| 15:33.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | particularly since it's not as trivial as it may sound, and would not help for changes with next version |
| 15:33.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | I trust in techstaff, particularly xes and warfare |
| 15:33.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-d |
| 15:33.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-d EVEN |
| 15:34.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | DANG!!! :-D friggin capslock |
| 15:34.23 | KotCzarny | also, it takes redhat size of company to install bugs that dont do anything on their own, but together make up nice holes for the nsa |
| 15:34.45 | KotCzarny | and mind you, redhat submits/manages a lot of core linux apps |
| 15:34.49 | KotCzarny | and libs |
| 15:35.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | *tedhnicaly* what I see via ssh login is not necessarily what devices see on repo download |
| 15:35.15 | buZz | redhat has a lot of code in linux kernel aswell |
| 15:35.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | that too |
| 15:35.30 | KotCzarny | yes, kdbus, *spits* |
| 15:35.42 | buZz | not just weird additions |
| 15:35.50 | KotCzarny | as if regular bugs werent enough |
| 15:35.52 | buZz | also plain stuff, like schedulers etc |
| 15:36.32 | KotCzarny | in short, linux makes you safe from regular joes, but is totally open for real espionage |
| 15:36.59 | buZz | KotCzarny: so, get started at porting plan9 |
| 15:37.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think the autobuilder and repo VMs are ubuntu |
| 15:37.05 | ceene | well, I think I've solved the registration issue with yappari |
| 15:37.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | \o/ |
| 15:37.24 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 15:37.28 | ceene | at least for now |
| 15:37.32 | KotCzarny | all it needed was a motivational talk? |
| 15:37.35 | ceene | it's all a hack |
| 15:37.45 | ceene | this thing needs a rewrite of big chunks |
| 15:37.59 | ceene | i've got coderus' libwa, but it doesn't support qt4 yet, i'd have to backport it |
| 15:38.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | why the heck they don't publish a reference client implementation? |
| 15:38.06 | ceene | but it already supports textsecure |
| 15:38.20 | ceene | so i don't really know which way should i follow |
| 15:38.46 | KotCzarny | easier to maintain |
| 15:38.56 | KotCzarny | why 2 codepaths |
| 15:39.37 | ceene | coderus' implementation is better, i think |
| 15:39.46 | KotCzarny | convince him to write lib agnostic to qt |
| 15:39.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | I thought they're so "we don't sell adds to you" and "we rather make money from your payments than from your data" - BWAHAHAHA |
| 15:40.03 | ceene | but i'd have to change all of yappari to its api, which is similar but not equal to the actual one |
| 15:40.23 | ceene | so any option is really a lot of work |
| 15:41.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | sounds like about time for yappari2.0? |
| 15:42.12 | ceene | if i had the time and the QT knowledge it requires... |
| 15:42.21 | ceene | i'm practically begging for someone who'd help me |
| 15:42.37 | ceene | but nobody wants to, or knows, or cares or... |
| 15:42.47 | ceene | i don't even use it much! |
| 15:43.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't at all - not that I would be much of a help. Touched Qt development last time when it had a 3 at end |
| 15:44.02 | ceene | well, it'd be quite strange if you, of all people, were to participate in maintaing whatsapp status :) |
| 15:44.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | around the time when twinklephone was 0.8 |
| 15:45.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | not really. Exploiting their infra with a FOSS client that isn't rogue would count as a good thing to do, in my book |
| 15:46.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | the more people use such decent client instead of the proprietary spyware, the less the whole service sucks |
| 15:47.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm actually a fan of the idea of not spending money for SMS texting when you have GPRS data anyway. Well, at times at least. |
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| 16:03.16 | ceene | well, i'm just uploading new version to the autobuilder |
| 16:03.27 | ceene | if you want to check it out that's the right moment! |
| 16:03.40 | ceene | maybe this also buys as some time on the ciphering issue |
| 16:03.51 | ceene | i'm too losing messages sent to groups |
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| 20:54.01 | Maxdamantus | Turns out the other package was another N900 .. guess no battery for the N97 then. |
| 20:54.40 | Maxdamantus | wonders if de could cut a bit out of the case and put a BL-5J in. |
| 20:55.09 | KotCzarny | :> |
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| 21:09.45 | Maxdamantus | deklaratsiya |
| 21:11.00 | Maxdamantus | deklariram, che tazi pratka ne syedyrxa predmeti i veshesva, neotpovariyashi |
| 21:11.08 | Maxdamantus | wonders if he's transcribing that correctly. |
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| 21:25.30 | jonwil | Why would any sane person want to actually USE a Nokia N97? |
| 21:27.47 | Maxdamantus | Dunno if I want to use it, but it was $2. |
| 21:28.29 | Maxdamantus | I just booted it with a BL-5J held in anyway and the touchscreen only sometimes recognises presses and they're usually in the wrong place. |
| 21:29.37 | Maxdamantus | N97 has an inconvenient keyboard layout for me too. |
| 21:29.45 | Maxdamantus | N97 mini seems alright, since it's the same as the N900. |
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| 21:30.17 | Maxdamantus | the left, down, right keys on my system are 'w', 'v', 'z' |
| 21:30.33 | Maxdamantus | not enough space on the N97 to use Dvorak. |
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| 21:57.48 | jonwil | I am about ready to give up, figuring out the microb-engine build process (and all the extra stuff the debian packaging does on top of it) and figuring out how to get it to compile the things I need it to compile is just too hard :( |
| 22:20.14 | Wizzup | can you break down the problems? |
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| 22:26.54 | jonwil | Basically I need to somehow get the standard microb-engine build process (i.e. go into the folder and do dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot) to also compile certain tools (specifically the one that lets you manipulate the cert8.db file). |
| 22:28.35 | jonwil | I can manually compile the tools by going into nss folder and running make nss_build_all but that doesn't help, I need it to be built at the same time as the rest of microb-engine |
| 22:29.41 | jonwil | That or we need to figure out another way to remove the various bogus intermediate certificates from the cert8.db file as part of updating the set of root CA certicficates |
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| 22:44.45 | Maxdamantus | Can't you just add it to the build instructions somewhere? |
| 22:45.03 | Maxdamantus | cd blah/nss && make nss_build_all |
| 22:46.19 | Maxdamantus | debian/rules would probably be a reasonable place. |
| 22:52.34 | jonwil | Except that it would pollute the build tree with garbage (you cant run a full mozilla build AND a nss_build_all build in the same build tree) |
| 22:52.53 | jonwil | So I want to figure out how to do an out-of-tree nss_build_all build that keeps all the files out of the build tree in a separate place |
| 22:57.18 | KotCzarny | is that a problem? |
| 22:57.22 | jonwil | yes it is |
| 22:57.28 | KotCzarny | i think it gets deleted after compiling/packaging anyway |
| 22:58.17 | kerio | how recent of a NSS are we talking here |
| 23:03.12 | Maxdamantus | Usually with ./configure-based things you just invoke the configure script from a different directory, though I have a feeling Gecko explicitly disallows that. |
| 23:04.23 | Maxdamantus | tar -xvf foo.tar.xz && mkdir foo-build && cd foo-build && ../foo/configure && make |
| 23:15.04 | Hurrian | ditto'ing Maxdamantus' answer, that's usually how I build gcc |
| 23:15.41 | Maxdamantus | gcc requires it afaik |
| 23:16.17 | Maxdamantus | Some combination of glibc, binutils and gcc don't support building in the source directory, so you have to do it somewhere else. |
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| 23:25.40 | Maxdamantus | 1: 2101, 2: 2104, 3: 2204 |
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