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| 00:10.29 | fishbulb | I like the improvements too |
| 00:10.44 | fishbulb | the images go to the image directory with the other photos now |
| 00:13.56 | bencoh | ceene: have you looked at the other opensource implems? |
| 00:15.12 | bencoh | (yowsup for example) |
| 00:16.26 | bencoh | (and whatsapp-purple) |
| 00:21.39 | bencoh | ah, looks like whatsapp-purple has the same issue |
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| 00:53.53 | lopx | long time |
| 00:53.55 | lopx | hi |
| 00:54.17 | lopx | anyone on? |
| 01:04.52 | lopx | i know someone is always on :) |
| 01:26.52 | Muumipeikko | hello? |
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| 04:05.39 | jonwil | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1498036#post1498036 |
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| 08:20.02 | ceene | bencoh: yep, and yowsup implements textsecure, which is really the only way to go now |
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| 10:40.55 | ceene | right |
| 10:41.01 | ceene | so i have libaxolotl packaged for maemo |
| 10:41.19 | ceene | still have to check which are the .h files needed for the -dev package, but that's okay |
| 10:41.30 | ceene | i can start now more or less to implement textsecure on yappari |
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| 10:56.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | wow |
| 10:57.11 | ceene | most of the work is really from coderus |
| 10:57.21 | ceene | i just backported it to qt4 and made the debian/ dir |
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| 11:25.24 | ceene | oh |
| 11:25.27 | ceene | linking error :( |
| 11:25.33 | ceene | /usr/lib/libaxolotl.so: undefined reference to `CiphertextMessage::CURRENT_VERSION' |
| 11:25.37 | ceene | that's simply false |
| 11:31.38 | ceene | i'm just about to replace that with a #define |
| 11:31.48 | ceene | i can't see why it doesn't found that symbol |
| 11:35.51 | ceene | in fact, there are other symbols defined in the very same place in the very same way that don't trigger that error |
| 11:36.04 | KotCzarny | different data type? |
| 11:36.18 | KotCzarny | though it looks like a define |
| 11:36.19 | ceene | nope |
| 11:36.21 | ceene | it's the same |
| 11:36.25 | ceene | class CiphertextMessage |
| 11:36.25 | ceene | { |
| 11:36.25 | ceene | public: static const int UNSUPPORTED_VERSION = 1; static const int CURRENT_VERSION = 3; |
| 11:36.29 | ceene | and there are a few more like that |
| 11:36.41 | ceene | i mean, i could replace that by a define |
| 11:36.49 | ceene | but... i'd like to know what's happenning |
| 11:37.02 | KotCzarny | try comparing to the working code? |
| 11:37.29 | ceene | UNSUPPORTED_VERSION doesn't trigger that error |
| 11:37.44 | ceene | nor the other consts |
| 11:37.53 | ceene | there's not much code i can test |
| 11:38.20 | KotCzarny | try defining them like: public: static const int UNSUPPORTED_VERSION=1, CURRENT_VERSION=3; |
| 11:38.40 | ceene | ok, it won't hurt |
| 11:39.11 | ceene | but doesn't make much sense, does it? |
| 11:39.34 | KotCzarny | when in doubt, ask the wiser, if wiser is not available try black magic |
| 11:39.50 | ceene | the same |
| 11:40.03 | KotCzarny | then its in the headers, but not in the .so |
| 11:40.16 | KotCzarny | check .so which symbols are defined |
| 11:40.54 | ceene | dpkg-shlibdeps: warning: symbol _ZN17CiphertextMessage15CURRENT_VERSIONE used by debian/libaxolotl/usr/lib/libaxolotl.so.1.0.0 found in none of the libraries. |
| 11:41.00 | ceene | that's after compiling the .so |
| 11:41.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | public: ? |
| 11:41.13 | ceene | but i can't see why |
| 11:41.36 | KotCzarny | current_versionE ? |
| 11:41.38 | ceene | i'll check the warnings, there are a few |
| 11:41.44 | ceene | na, it's just noise of the output |
| 11:41.54 | ceene | i've checked the source and there's not versionE anywhere |
| 11:42.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't think a "public:" is for the whole line of code |
| 11:42.16 | ceene | it should affect everything that is below the public: |
| 11:42.20 | KotCzarny | yup |
| 11:42.35 | KotCzarny | till private or something else changes types |
| 11:42.39 | ceene | my paste before was fixed by irssi |
| 11:42.43 | ceene | but it's public |
| 11:42.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | err hmm, that's not how I thought the syntax of c and c++ would work |
| 11:43.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | though I admit I have no clue |
| 11:43.08 | KotCzarny | ceene: nm libaxolotl.so.1.0.0|grep _VERSION |
| 11:44.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway if "public:" was a switch that changes context for everything after, there must be a sort of "endpublic:" |
| 11:44.24 | ceene | [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: /tmp/N900/libaxolotl] > nm libaxolotl.so.1.0.0|grep _VERSION U _ZN17CiphertextMessage15CURRENT_VERSIONE |
| 11:44.32 | ceene | DocScrutinizer05: it'd be private: or whatever |
| 11:44.39 | KotCzarny | undefined |
| 11:44.42 | ceene | but in its abscense it should just define verything as public |
| 11:45.01 | KotCzarny | check the lib compilation output |
| 11:45.30 | KotCzarny | or maybe its in some other sublib |
| 11:45.42 | KotCzarny | is it the only .so in that tree? |
| 11:46.39 | ceene | yep, there's no other .so |
| 11:46.43 | ceene | i'll be checking the warnings |
| 11:46.47 | ceene | there must be something somewher |
| 11:46.59 | ceene | i gotta go now, i'll tell you if/when i find something |
| 11:47.01 | ceene | thanks, cya! |
| 11:47.22 | KotCzarny | bb |
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| 11:56.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'd do a stupid thing and simply add a "public: " in front of the " static const int CURRENT_VERSION = 3;" |
| 11:58.16 | jonwil | By default things in C++ are private |
| 11:58.41 | jonwil | Wait no, that's not strictly true, it depends on whether its a struct or a class |
| 12:00.11 | KotCzarny | his problem is undefined symbol in LIBRARY |
| 12:00.13 | KotCzarny | not in his code |
| 12:05.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.cplusplus.com/doc/tutorial/classes/ |
| 12:05.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | it suggests that a access_specifier affects exactly ONE member |
| 12:06.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | like I would have thought the syntax of a proper language is defined |
| 12:07.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | wait, I should read to bottom |
| 12:08.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | heck no, ceene is right: >>...and two member functions with public access: the functions set_values and area,<< |
| 12:10.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | c++ is a mess |
| 12:12.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | compare >> int a, b; << to >> public: t x; t y; << and the different syntax |
| 12:14.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | in first the semicolon is delimiter for the type 'int' specifier. in second there is no delimiter for 'public:' |
| 12:15.39 | jonwil | is no closer to figuring out what libmaemosec and this strange absolute_pathname function is really doing (not just "it gets the absolute pathname" but what the actual bits of code are doing) |
| 12:16.09 | jonwil | If I can figure this out I can commit a new set of root certificates no problems :) |
| 12:16.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | adds a >>goto public: << at random places |
| 12:17.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: which line of code is unclear? |
| 12:18.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | and why is it a problem to start with? doesn't it do just what it's supposed to do? |
| 12:18.27 | jonwil | The issue is that /etc is a symlink in Scratchbox |
| 12:18.42 | jonwil | and that function is returning /blah/blah/blah/etc instead of /etc |
| 12:18.58 | jonwil | meaning the output of cmcli is not what we need it to be for the device |
| 12:19.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, that's exactly what it's supposed to do, no? |
| 12:19.56 | jonwil | ok, I think I understand it a bit more now |
| 12:20.15 | jonwil | It gets information about the passed in path (the lstat call) |
| 12:20.22 | jonwil | then it says "is this a symbolic link" |
| 12:21.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually iirc it does a chdir into the provided path and then gets the cwdir (which is supposed to be the plain raw pathname without symlinks) and returns that |
| 12:22.56 | jonwil | no, the code definatly does more than that |
| 12:23.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure it does more, it also checks if the path is absolute or relative, and in latter case it prepends the path to current dir in front |
| 12:24.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's quite weird code, but maybe there's a reason for that |
| 12:24.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | there might be attack vectors otherwise |
| 12:25.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | or problems with process specific name spaces, or whatever |
| 12:26.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | alas there's little comment in source on why all that is needed |
| 12:27.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's why I asked what's the source of trouble, after all I think it worked so far, no? |
| 12:28.17 | jonwil | The issue is that /etc in scratchbox is a symlink. |
| 12:28.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | or do we run into a sleeping bug in that code, in a specific environment that hasn't been tested so far? |
| 12:29.03 | KotCzarny | for full path it should use realpath() |
| 12:29.11 | KotCzarny | not some cd&pwd |
| 12:29.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, maybe the code is exactly for handling stuff in an unexpected manner in situations like a scratchbox environment |
| 12:29.40 | KotCzarny | jonwil, you can try changing symlink into mount --bind, if its only for the building package means |
| 12:29.59 | jonwil | Because /etc is a symlink when cmcli puts path names for certificates into files under /etc/secure/s it stores the target of the symlink |
| 12:30.01 | KotCzarny | or just change the code in cmcli? |
| 12:30.03 | jonwil | not the actual link |
| 12:30.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | so e.g. a chrooted process would still use the system wide cert store? or whatever |
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| 12:31.51 | ceene | i don't really see why would anything other than tar, backup utilities, etc, would mind if some path is symbolic or not |
| 12:31.56 | ceene | (hi again!) |
| 12:32.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | it seems the problem isn't the code but the semantics and rationale behind it |
| 12:32.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | ceene: same here |
| 12:33.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | ceene: there are other things as well, like bindmounts and chroot |
| 12:33.30 | jonwil | Basically the issue is that when you use cmcli to install a certificate, it puts a path to that certificate in a file under /etc/secure/s. On Scratchbox that path is not /etc but /blah/blah/etc or whatever when we need it to be /etc since that's where things live on the device |
| 12:34.21 | ceene | i can't see why cmcli cares about the nature of the path |
| 12:34.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | might actually be a bug that processes symlinks in a way originally meant for e.g. bindmounts or chroots |
| 12:37.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | unless we find out about the rationale behind that code, we prolly never will know how it's supposed to work and what's wrong |
| 12:39.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | it might be everything from noob's cargo cult coding to a highly sophisticated (though maybe flawed) security feature to handle special attack vectors or environments |
| 12:40.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | knowing the origins of this code might help a lot. e.g. if it originally been meant for android or docker or whatever |
| 12:42.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | can't you do a 'git blame' or whatever, to see who and when and why introduced that code snippet? |
| 12:42.52 | jonwil | The project is clearly 100% Nokia |
| 12:42.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | ouch |
| 12:43.20 | jonwil | maemo-security-certman was 100% the work of Nokia |
| 12:43.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | so odds are it's actually already meant to handle scratchbox environment in a special manner |
| 12:44.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | possibly never tested though |
| 12:45.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | ".. err humm, let's use the host's certificate store when we run in scratchbox..." ? |
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| 12:45.48 | jonwil | Its got nothing to do with where it gets the certificate store from and no it wont use the host certificate store on Scratchbox as such |
| 12:46.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | <spews a few dozen lines of code> "... looks good..." |
| 12:46.11 | jonwil | The symlink in question has nothing to do with the certificate store and is a generic symlink for all of /etc |
| 12:46.39 | KotCzarny | jonwil, maybe you should provide certs as source and run cmcli during install/reinstall? |
| 12:46.45 | jonwil | so for whatever reason the people behind Scratchbox decided that /etc in a scratchbox environment would be a symlink elsewhere |
| 12:46.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | please don't focus on the symlink, it's evidently the pathological case that hasn't been thought of |
| 12:47.13 | jonwil | The root problem is that the files under /etc/secure/s contain absolute paths to the certificate files (which makes a lot of sense to me) but under Scratchbox, its storing the /blah/blah/etc symlink target rather than just /etc (we need it to store /etc) |
| 12:47.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | that code is meant to handle something else |
| 12:48.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | how about you simply comment out that code? |
| 12:49.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | on target platform it doesn't do anything useful anyway aiui, and in scratchbox it doesn't work |
| 12:50.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | hey, when you have the author, you could simply send a mail and ask for a hint what's the deal with absolute_path |
| 12:56.23 | jonwil | yeah I was about to do that |
| 12:59.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | however see the very next function in code, which is using absolute_path along with a few other tricks to get a process context |
| 13:00.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | also for processes handled by maemo-launcher |
| 13:01.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | in this context stuff like optification and the involved bindmounts come to mind |
| 13:01.46 | jonwil | mail sent :)' |
| 13:01.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-D |
| 13:02.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | I hope it's no ænokia.com mail addr, or you rather had to use aunt google to find a more recent addr to contact the author |
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| 13:03.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | dang! |
| 13:03.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | ctrl-q |
| 13:03.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P |
| 13:04.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | while searching for æ |
| 13:04.40 | ceene | i still can't see why this const is then undefined |
| 13:05.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | neither |
| 13:05.21 | ceene | i'm just about to replace it with a #define |
| 13:05.28 | ceene | it's just a number |
| 13:05.37 | ceene | and not used for anything too useful, in fact |
| 13:05.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | a define is compile time, a public: is exported to the ABI, no? |
| 13:06.15 | ceene | yes, but given that it's just a const defined in a .h file that can be simply included |
| 13:06.19 | ceene | it doesn't matter at all |
| 13:06.21 | KotCzarny | ceene, its undefined in the library object itself |
| 13:06.27 | ceene | KotCzarny: but why? |
| 13:06.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | not if that thing is a .so or whatever |
| 13:06.36 | ceene | i'm the one compilnig the library |
| 13:06.55 | KotCzarny | some compile error? |
| 13:06.58 | ceene | nope |
| 13:07.03 | ceene | i've checked warnings and nothing related to it |
| 13:07.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | optimization kicked it out? |
| 13:07.37 | ceene | could be, i guess |
| 13:07.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | use it in code, for some nonsense |
| 13:08.20 | ceene | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5508182/static-const-int-causes-linking-error-undefined-reference |
| 13:08.21 | jonwil | The email address I found when I made contact with the author of maemo-security-certman came from github |
| 13:08.28 | ceene | i think it can be that same question |
| 13:08.42 | KotCzarny | o.O |
| 13:09.10 | ceene | c++ is fucking weird |
| 13:09.20 | KotCzarny | mildly put |
| 13:10.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | [Sun 07 February 2016] [13:10:54] <DocScrutinizer05> c++ is a mess |
| 13:10.26 | ceene | http://stackoverflow.com/questions/5391973/undefined-reference-to-static-const-int/5392134#5392134 |
| 13:10.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: sounds good |
| 13:10.30 | ceene | i believe this is the answer |
| 13:10.44 | ceene | which of course is nuts |
| 13:10.50 | ceene | but it's probably going to work, i guess |
| 13:11.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 13:11.24 | ceene | so much for code reusability |
| 13:11.30 | ceene | i have to type the exact same thing twice |
| 13:11.39 | ceene | so i can make twice the mistakes i'd do otherwise |
| 13:11.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehe |
| 13:12.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | hail c++ |
| 13:12.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | use inline assembler ;-) |
| 13:12.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | at very least you know *exactly* what's going to happen then |
| 13:13.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | j/k |
| 13:13.39 | ceene | there's someone right now, with an unwritable name, who is proud of himself for inventing c++ |
| 13:13.45 | ceene | he sleeps well at nights |
| 13:15.05 | ceene | prekeywhispermessage.o: In function `.LANCHOR0': |
| 13:15.06 | ceene | prekeywhispermessage.cpp:(.rodata+0x40): multiple definition of `CiphertextMessage::UNSUPPORTED_VERSION' |
| 13:15.08 | ceene | keyexchangemessage.o:(.rodata+0x0): first defined here |
| 13:15.10 | ceene | i'm done with it |
| 13:15.12 | ceene | that's it |
| 13:15.15 | ceene | #defines it's going to be |
| 13:16.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | Bjarne Stroustrup ? |
| 13:16.52 | ceene | that one! |
| 13:19.20 | ceene | there |
| 13:19.21 | ceene | done |
| 13:19.29 | ceene | now it compiles, and yappari links against it without any problem |
| 13:19.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | puts B. Stroustrup next to L. Poettering on his secrete list |
| 13:20.10 | ceene | that's a list that secretes people you hate? |
| 13:20.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>links against it without any problem<< doesn't tell much yet, you might run into an assert at yappari runtime, like "version of blabla.so doesn't fit" |
| 13:21.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((list)) up to you to figure what that list is for ;-) |
| 13:22.06 | ceene | DocScrutinizer05: i'm the one who is going to write yappari code to match my libaxolotl version |
| 13:22.09 | ceene | so that won't happen |
| 13:22.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) good |
| 13:22.21 | ceene | maybe my libaxolotl will differ from mainstream |
| 13:22.28 | ceene | but i don't care much |
| 13:22.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | I never heard of that strange critter ;-) |
| 13:22.46 | ceene | moreso if this stupid thing is the only one that's blocking my development |
| 13:22.51 | ceene | yeah, it's a funny name |
| 13:22.55 | KotCzarny | compile statically? :> |
| 13:22.57 | ceene | it's the thing that implements textsecure ciphering |
| 13:23.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | axolotl, wasn't that an ugly amphibian? |
| 13:23.27 | ceene | nah, i already have .debs for libaxolotl and libcurve25519 |
| 13:23.40 | ceene | yeah, it's a salamander |
| 13:23.53 | ceene | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Axolotl |
| 13:23.57 | ceene | or something like that |
| 13:24.06 | ceene | i don't think it's ugly, just funny looking :) |
| 13:24.15 | ceene | looks like a fish with legs |
| 13:25.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>As of 2010, wild axolotls were near extinction<< ;-P |
| 13:25.29 | ceene | poor thing |
| 13:25.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | wonder what that implies for libaxolotl |
| 13:26.03 | ceene | as long as wa uses it... it'll have a long live |
| 13:26.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehe |
| 13:26.31 | ceene | not that i'm against crypto, but i find that whenever i have to use some crypto library they are all a mess |
| 13:26.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | so wa is the zoo for axolotls |
| 13:26.52 | ceene | i guess it's because crypto is a hard subject in itself, so implementation are also hard problems |
| 13:27.03 | ceene | but man, all this initialization, keys, prekeys, shared secrets... |
| 13:27.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, it's mindboggling |
| 13:31.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_and_Bob are the very simple looking basics |
| 13:32.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Alice_and_Bob#Cast_of_characters already gets nasty |
| 13:33.57 | ceene | i've read agatha christie's And Then There Were None, which had less people than that and much more gratifying to read and guess whodunnit |
| 13:36.20 | bencoh | that one was really quite enjoyable, actually :) |
| 13:36.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_forward_secrecy is where we get to the more interesting things |
| 13:36.50 | bencoh | (and then there was none) |
| 13:36.56 | bencoh | were* |
| 13:44.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | PFS isn't really simple to understand or to implement |
| 13:45.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | axolotl is even listed in https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Perfect_forward_secrecy as one of the implementations |
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| 14:18.59 | freemangordon | Pali: any idea how to prevent screen going blank after trying to reboot or shutdown? |
| 14:19.25 | Pali | no idea... |
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| 14:32.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: hmm? that sounds a tad fuzzy |
| 14:32.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | am I missing some context? |
| 14:33.15 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: when you reboot N900, display goes black |
| 14:33.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, eventually the video buffer gets initialized, yes |
| 14:33.46 | freemangordon | I want to prevent that, to be able to capture console aoutput |
| 14:34.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh you meant after console already went active |
| 14:34.45 | freemangordon | well, I guess commenting out acx565akm_disable(dssdev); in remove() will do the jib :) |
| 14:35.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | aaah, during shutdown |
| 14:35.27 | freemangordon | hmm, no :( |
| 14:35.35 | freemangordon | yes, during shutdown |
| 14:36.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, what you said then. sounds reasonable |
| 14:36.16 | enyc | DocScrutinizer05: is there a new draft hackerbus spec to look at? |
| 14:36.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | however you also need to prevent system shutdown then |
| 14:36.23 | freemangordon | but doesn't work |
| 14:36.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | enyc: wpwrak hasn't provided a public version yet |
| 14:37.49 | enyc | okies =) |
| 14:38.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe prod him about it in neo chan |
| 14:38.39 | enyc | ooh oops |
| 14:38.44 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: what should be done so I to have working serial output from N900? |
| 14:39.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: a good question. the classical approach would be to use serial (or other low complexity) interface to export all printout in realtime |
| 14:40.29 | freemangordon | well, there is serial, I just don't have the way to interface it :) |
| 14:40.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | frewuently UART console via a special debug adapter is used for that |
| 14:40.50 | freemangordon | is there such a way, some standard device to connect to omap serial outs |
| 14:41.04 | freemangordon | "debug adapter"? |
| 14:41.36 | bencoh | the debug port below battery? |
| 14:41.39 | bencoh | "port" |
| 14:41.47 | bencoh | more pads than port, but ... |
| 14:41.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | for N900 yes |
| 14:42.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's 1V8 TTL UART |
| 14:42.23 | freemangordon | TTL 1.6V? |
| 14:42.29 | freemangordon | ops, 1.8 |
| 14:42.43 | freemangordon | no way TTL :) |
| 14:42.44 | bencoh | does it go straight to omap? |
| 14:42.47 | freemangordon | yes |
| 14:42.51 | bencoh | :/ |
| 14:42.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | well "TTL" |
| 14:43.07 | bencoh | sounds like instant fry the moment you do something wrong |
| 14:43.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 14:43.21 | freemangordon | you mean 0V for 0 and 1.8V of 1? |
| 14:43.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 14:44.33 | freemangordon | and what about the connector? can I use some standard plug? |
| 14:44.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Hacking#Debug_ports |
| 14:44.47 | freemangordon | yep, read those |
| 14:44.54 | freemangordon | doesn;t help much :) |
| 14:45.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | tbh I'd suggest to solder some thin wires to the testbads |
| 14:45.27 | freemangordon | won;t do that on my "new" device |
| 14:45.44 | KotCzarny | do it on the old then? |
| 14:45.58 | freemangordon | "old" one is my daily device :) |
| 14:46.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | there are generic "phoenix" adaper "pliers" |
| 14:46.23 | bencoh | /dev/ttyS0 might be wrong on modern kernels |
| 14:47.11 | bencoh | (it's probably something like ttyO0) |
| 14:47.26 | Defiant | bencoh: srsly? I thought they abandon ttyO* again |
| 14:47.48 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: what I am supposed to search on ebay for? |
| 14:48.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | lemme try |
| 14:48.50 | bencoh | Defiant: ah? maybe then |
| 14:50.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.fonefunshop.co.uk/Unlocking/servicecableuniversal1.htm |
| 14:51.15 | bencoh | £55.99 :/ |
| 14:52.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | bencoh: those testpads are not designed for convenient low cost connectors to get attached |
| 14:52.23 | bencoh | I wonder how it works |
| 14:53.36 | freemangordon | me too |
| 14:53.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: an alternative would be to hack the kernel to use the UART implementation in musbcore instead. the USB allows doing simple UART TX/RX via the D+/- lines |
| 14:53.48 | freemangordon | I understand nothing from those pictures |
| 14:54.07 | bencoh | me neither |
| 14:54.25 | bencoh | especially the one with the stripped board |
| 14:54.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's a simple clip (acrylic) that presses some pogopins to the DUT |
| 14:54.40 | bencoh | how does it attach to it |
| 14:55.05 | bencoh | ah |
| 14:55.17 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: the problem is that the bug I chase needs usb gadget driver loaded |
| 14:55.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | the pogopins sit on a small adapter PCB 'plugged' into the tip of the clip |
| 14:55.41 | freemangordon | ok, but how to power that assembly? |
| 14:56.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | I guess the crocodile clips are meant to contact to the battery blades |
| 14:56.28 | freemangordon | hmm |
| 14:56.37 | freemangordon | too complicated for my test |
| 14:56.42 | freemangordon | *taste |
| 14:57.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, it gets more convenient and "simple" if you shell out way more bucks |
| 14:57.38 | freemangordon | example? |
| 14:57.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | the Nokia test jig |
| 14:58.37 | *** join/#maemo xelo (~xelo@ip-109-91-134-15.hsi12.unitymediagroup.de) |
| 14:59.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | a possibly more appealing approch is to hack something like this: http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20130719_002.jpg |
| 15:00.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20130719_003.jpg ... 009.jpg |
| 15:01.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.cloud-7.de/share-service/20130719_007.jpg |
| 15:02.07 | freemangordon | :nod: |
| 15:02.11 | freemangordon | what is this? |
| 15:02.12 | *** join/#maemo shentey (~shentey@f052240115.adsl.alicedsl.de) |
| 15:02.39 | freemangordon | I mean - someone made it or you haev it? |
| 15:03.21 | Sicelo | sre made one too .. and gave step-by-step instructions for someone else to make for themselves |
| 15:03.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | I bought it on fleabay/$seller long ago, for a 5 bucks. Alas I can't find it in the interwebs anymore, only stuff like this: http://www.phoneunlock.com/Nokia-Service-FBus-Cable-Rj45-for-JAF-MX-Box-Saras-Box-x-5-cables-SKU176972.html |
| 15:04.26 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: oh, so you have a way to catch serial output? |
| 15:04.56 | freemangordon | gives DocScrutinizer05 zImage and modules and waits for the logs :) |
| 15:04.59 | Sicelo | http://elektranox.org/n900/serial-adapter.html |
| 15:05.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.sstparts.com/product.php?aId=5072 |
| 15:06.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, that thing connects to BB5 F-Bus, not to the UART pads |
| 15:06.34 | freemangordon | :( |
| 15:07.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.fonefunshop.co.uk/Unlocking/service_cables/box/atf-lightning-nokia-service-cables.htm |
| 15:07.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | you however can hack that thing moreately easily, you just need to 'move' the pogopins |
| 15:08.13 | *** join/#maemo heroux (~heroux@50708323.static.ziggozakelijk.nl) |
| 15:08.20 | freemangordon | but I don;t have the serial converter chip as well |
| 15:08.37 | freemangordon | and I feel too old for hacking such things :) |
| 15:09.35 | freemangordon | so I'd rather buy something prebuild, or ask somebody on the channel to capture the logs for me |
| 15:10.07 | Sicelo | ask sre then ;) |
| 15:10.13 | Sicelo | or he's busy nowadays? |
| 15:10.35 | freemangordon | I don;t see him around |
| 15:10.50 | bencoh | I suspect he might want to keep his adapter anyway :) |
| 15:11.04 | Sicelo | lol, yes .. meant he could get him to test |
| 15:11.05 | bencoh | since he works on n900+kernel from time to time |
| 15:11.09 | bencoh | ah |
| 15:11.16 | Sicelo | freemangordon: tried xmpp? he usually responds instantly |
| 15:11.54 | freemangordon | Sicelo: never used xmpp, besides fbchat and google chat :) |
| 15:13.04 | Sicelo | okay. email then? :p |
| 15:13.14 | Sicelo | or i could let him know you need him? but then how does that help |
| 15:13.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | hacking a standard Nokia FBUS cable should be simple enough. Nokia F-Bus is 3V3 but you should easily be able to modify the 3V3 voltage to 1V8, there must be level shifters anyway |
| 15:13.50 | freemangordon | well, you can ask him to join #maemo :) |
| 15:14.18 | freemangordon | Sicelo: but yeah, maybe I should mail him |
| 15:14.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | Nokia data cable it's dubbed |
| 15:15.07 | bencoh | nokia data cable, the thing that existed back when 3310 was mainstream? |
| 15:15.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 15:15.16 | freemangordon | or simply wait for Pali's best friend amongst the kernel maintainers to return from holiday :D |
| 15:15.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | or finally share your UPS address ;-) |
| 15:16.14 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: hmm? you have my address |
| 15:16.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | I do? |
| 15:16.23 | freemangordon | yes |
| 15:16.46 | Sicelo | never seen sre here |
| 15:17.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | then I probably could find it in my data desert if I already knew it ;-) |
| 15:17.44 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: I gave it to you to send me BB-XM iirc |
| 15:17.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | duh! |
| 15:18.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | and did I? |
| 15:18.04 | freemangordon | no |
| 15:18.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | why? |
| 15:18.30 | freemangordon | because we've solved the problem so there was no need, or somesuch |
| 15:18.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | aah |
| 15:18.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah I remember now |
| 15:19.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | I connected the BB-xM to Europa instead ;-) |
| 15:20.18 | freemangordon | :nod: |
| 15:20.20 | freemangordon | :) |
| 15:21.04 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: 8.04.2015 22:18 |
| 15:21.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | ta |
| 15:21.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | will see what I can do |
| 15:21.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | seems you're not eager to do any soldering |
| 15:21.36 | freemangordon | no |
| 15:21.42 | freemangordon | I miss the tools needed |
| 15:21.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok, I think I got the tools |
| 15:22.08 | freemangordon | I don't want to risk breaking a device |
| 15:22.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | meh, it takes breaking eggs to make an omelet |
| 15:23.05 | freemangordon | I have only one old(> 20 years) 10MHz russian scope and 40W iron |
| 15:23.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | I see |
| 15:23.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think my scope and iron are up to the task |
| 15:23.43 | freemangordon | see, if there is noone to do it, I will, but knowing there are guys better suited for the job, I prefer to not ;) |
| 15:23.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | np |
| 15:23.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | stay tuned |
| 15:24.00 | freemangordon | ok |
| 15:24.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | idly wonders how to *send* data from Rigol scope to RS232 ;-) |
| 15:25.26 | freemangordon | Pali: i am thinking to enable 550MHz before sending the patch, unless you remember why it is disabled |
| 15:25.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wEmdHCXhrNk |
| 15:27.52 | Pali | freemangordon: no idea why 550 is disabled |
| 15:28.44 | freemangordon | ok, will enable it |
| 15:29.20 | Pali | DocScrutinizer05: any idea? |
| 15:29.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm? |
| 15:29.51 | Pali | why could be 550MHz freq obsolate and disabled? |
| 15:29.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh, maybe instable? |
| 15:29.53 | Pali | for n900? |
| 15:30.14 | *** join/#maemo sparetire (~sparetire@unaffiliated/sparetire) |
| 15:30.19 | freemangordon | naah, it is not that one |
| 15:30.25 | freemangordon | 550 is table |
| 15:30.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | there are quite a few theoretically possible clock rates that simply don't work and thus are deprecated |
| 15:30.32 | Pali | can you check nokia kernel and kernel-power? |
| 15:30.40 | freemangordon | it is enabled in stock kernel |
| 15:30.46 | freemangordon | iirc |
| 15:31.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, then I dunno. however I don't see it listed in e.g. zzztop |
| 15:31.25 | Pali | on my N900 with kernel-power 550 is enabled |
| 15:31.39 | freemangordon | Pali: is it used, according to stats? |
| 15:32.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://paste.opensuse.org/66210581 seems zzztop only lists *used* clock factors |
| 15:33.08 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: zzztop ignores freq that were not used during the measurement |
| 15:33.12 | freemangordon | :) |
| 15:33.16 | Pali | kernel-config show that 550 is supported and enabled |
| 15:33.57 | *** join/#maemo kerio (kerio@bad.memes.vs.dank.ninja) |
| 15:34.37 | freemangordon | http://pastebin.com/FCc54vyi |
| 15:35.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | *cough* cifsdnotifyd |
| 15:38.58 | Pali | here in log https://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2011-07-28.log.html is some info about 550Mhz freq |
| 15:39.00 | freemangordon | Pali: BTW operating-points-v2 allows for so-called "turbo" freqs, which is an euphemism for OC imo :) |
| 15:39.46 | *** join/#maemo trumee (~trumee@c-50-175-121-86.hsd1.tx.comcast.net) |
| 15:40.40 | freemangordon | Pali: I see nothing useful there, besides someones preferences |
| 15:41.10 | Pali | ok, enable it |
| 15:41.16 | freemangordon | ok |
| 15:41.18 | Pali | and what for 250MHz? |
| 15:41.30 | freemangordon | 250 or 125? |
| 15:41.39 | Pali | 250 is changed to 249.6MHz |
| 15:41.45 | Pali | and 125 disabled |
| 15:41.50 | freemangordon | yes |
| 15:41.59 | Pali | both are correct?? |
| 15:42.55 | freemangordon | /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpufreq/policy0/stats # cat * |
| 15:42.55 | freemangordon | 249600 18015 |
| 15:42.55 | freemangordon | 500000 41 |
| 15:42.55 | freemangordon | 550000 0 |
| 15:42.55 | freemangordon | 600000 4859 |
| 15:43.04 | freemangordon | Pali: ^^^ |
| 15:43.24 | Pali | hm... 550 is 0? |
| 15:43.38 | freemangordon | this is qemu |
| 15:44.00 | Pali | rigth, so 550 is disabled (so 0) |
| 15:44.02 | freemangordon | but even on the device, 550 is rarely used |
| 15:44.06 | freemangordon | no |
| 15:44.18 | freemangordon | 125 is disabled, so it is missing at all :) |
| 15:44.33 | freemangordon | Pali: see http://pastebin.com/FCc54vyi |
| 15:44.36 | freemangordon | this is KP |
| 15:44.59 | freemangordon | with a charger attached |
| 15:45.05 | freemangordon | (so 250 is not hit) |
| 15:47.03 | freemangordon | Pali: this is what I am going to send http://pastebin.com/EqawsyaG |
| 15:47.16 | *** join/#maemo heroux (~heroux@50708323.static.ziggozakelijk.nl) |
| 15:47.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.ftdichip.com/Support/Documents/DataSheets/Cables/DS_TTL-232RG_CABLES.pdf I'm also lazy. freemangordon would you be content with this USB jack at the end of the cable from your new N900 devel device to your PC?? |
| 15:48.14 | Pali | still... from where we have that 249.6MHz value?? |
| 15:48.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://shop.clickandbuild.com/cnb/shop/ftdichip?productID=127&op=catalogue-product_info-null&prodCategoryID=102 |
| 15:48.36 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: I think it will be even more convenient |
| 15:48.54 | freemangordon | I guess this is ftdi RS232<->USB? |
| 15:49.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 15:49.02 | Pali | also see sre email: http://comments.gmane.org/gmane.linux.ports.arm.omap/102766 and his dmesg output: http://paste.debian.net/24628/ |
| 15:49.39 | bencoh | iirc I used 550 for some time on my device |
| 15:50.08 | bencoh | before switching back to 600 |
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| 15:50.59 | *** join/#maemo arossdotme-planb (~zxy@host-78-151-242-187.as13285.net) |
| 15:51.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | FTDI TTL-232RG-VREG1V8-WE |
| 15:52.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://de.farnell.com/ftdi/ttl-232rg-vreg1v8-we/kabel-ttl-usb-konv-abgemantelt/dp/2352004 |
| 15:53.51 | freemangordon | Pali: from some commit, can't find it now, gimme some time |
| 15:54.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: >>This cables require USB drivers, which are used to make the FT232R in the cable appear as a virtual COM port.<< I hope your linux has such a driver |
| 15:54.28 | freemangordon | well, it is ubuntu 14.04, I guess it has :) |
| 15:54.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | should |
| 15:54.42 | freemangordon | at least there is no problem with FTDi adapters |
| 15:55.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok, so I'll send you such a cable and a device where it's connected to |
| 15:55.42 | freemangordon | great |
| 15:55.44 | freemangordon | Pali: p, li { white-space: pre-wrap; } df5c1e60a5213755d31631b7c12bf33bc1a6bb70 |
| 15:55.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | np |
| 15:56.11 | Pali | freemangordon: I know that commit, but do not know *why* is needed now |
| 15:56.48 | Pali | it is only in linux-N900 tree |
| 15:56.49 | freemangordon | Pali: so, you think we should use 250 instead of 249.6? |
| 15:57.03 | Pali | I do not know, I'm just asking :-) |
| 15:57.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | sounds sane, LOL |
| 15:57.23 | Pali | anyway, see sre dmesg: http://paste.debian.net/24628/ |
| 15:57.37 | Pali | and search for "Cannot find matching frequency" |
| 15:58.43 | freemangordon | Pali: hmm, seems there were some bug which seem to be fixed |
| 15:58.54 | *** join/#maemo arossdotme (~zxy@host-78-151-242-187.as13285.net) |
| 15:58.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | more puzzling is >> [ 27.884918] clock: dpll1_ck: cannot round to rate 250000000 << |
| 15:59.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | why? |
| 15:59.16 | Pali | there is 124.8MHz 249.6Mhz and 549.6Mhz |
| 15:59.22 | freemangordon | yes, because it cannot find a combination of mul/div |
| 16:00.04 | freemangordon | Pali: ok, I'll try 250 instead of 249.6 |
| 16:00.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | it tries to round but says it can't |
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| 16:01.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | makes a damn lot of sense to round 249600000 to 250000000 |
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| 16:02.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe there's a error threshold that's too small to round that value to next 'even' clock freq? |
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| 16:06.36 | freemangordon | Pali: http://pastebin.com/CnA4Nh0v |
| 16:06.42 | freemangordon | seems we can drop that commit |
| 16:06.52 | freemangordon | this is N900, not qemu |
| 16:07.32 | freemangordon | Pali: what about enabling 125MHz? |
| 16:08.16 | Pali | try... we will see :-) |
| 16:08.24 | freemangordon | Pali: if we enable 125, there is no need to send a patch |
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| 16:09.22 | Pali | is Skry (Joni Lapilainen) somewhere around? |
| 16:09.39 | Pali | I would like to know motivation for that patch |
| 16:11.30 | freemangordon | Pali: i remember him hanging on #armlinux and #linux-omap |
| 16:12.01 | freemangordon | ~seen skry |
| 16:12.04 | infobot | freemangordon: i haven't seen 'skry' |
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| 16:13.00 | Pali | "Adjust MPU OPP values for RX51 -- The OPPs defined in the OPP table don't have exact matches with available MPU frequencies because N900 uses a different system oscillator than other 3430 boards. This is a hack to fix the 250MHz frequency, and also disable the obsolete 125MHz and 550MHz ones." |
| 16:13.10 | Pali | this is written in commit message |
| 16:15.05 | freemangordon | Pali: yes, but it seems this is no longer valid |
| 16:15.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | err, sounds like it couldn't get obsolete |
| 16:15.38 | freemangordon | Pali: see http://pastebin.com/dYeHwvvz |
| 16:15.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/obsolete/invalid/ |
| 16:17.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: I assume you're quoting output of a stock kernel on N900? then please check the oscillator frequency used in the kernel sources, vs the real one in N900 |
| 16:17.56 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: this pastebin is from 4.5-rc1 |
| 16:18.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 16:18.37 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: what to check then? |
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| 16:19.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | when kernel simply assumes a "standard" oscillator freq, then of course the clock freq calculations will be just fine, however the data they base on is wrong, possibly introducing other nasty trouble with timing |
| 16:21.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | N900 uses a 19.2MHz osc on HFCLKIN |
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| 16:22.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | G4246 |
| 16:22.28 | Pali | freemangordon: so patch is not needed... |
| 16:22.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | p.4 |
| 16:22.51 | Pali | or you can specify turbo-mode (disable by default) to have all data :-) |
| 16:23.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm? |
| 16:24.23 | Pali | anyway DT patch for C-states is needed |
| 16:24.29 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: It is rather that patch is wrong, stock kernel uses those freqs as well |
| 16:24.36 | freemangordon | Pali: for C-states? |
| 16:24.44 | Pali | exit latency |
| 16:24.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm ok then, strange |
| 16:24.47 | freemangordon | yes |
| 16:25.03 | freemangordon | Pali: but that seems too complicated for me :) |
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| 16:25.29 | freemangordon | Pali: also, we don;t use DT cpu-udle driver :) |
| 16:31.18 | freemangordon | Pali: in omap2plus_defconfig, there is CONFIG_CPU_IDLE=y, but no CONFIG_ARM_CPUIDLE |
| 16:31.29 | freemangordon | the same for rx51_defconfig |
| 16:31.34 | Pali | ok |
| 16:31.48 | freemangordon | wonders how that works at all |
| 16:31.51 | freemangordon | and if |
| 16:32.41 | Pali | http://www.spinics.net/lists/linux-omap/msg124947.html |
| 16:34.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | freemangordon: s/stock/mainline/ |
| 16:35.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | Nokia kernel uses an allegedly unusual oscillator of aiui 19.2MHz. I wonder what oscillator the mainline 4.5-rc1 uses |
| 16:36.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | my fault to use the term "stock kernel" |
| 16:38.59 | freemangordon | DocScrutinizer05: http://pastebin.com/q2ntZHVS |
| 16:40.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | this is from mainline kernel? |
| 16:40.16 | freemangordon | yes |
| 16:40.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | cool shit |
| 16:40.32 | freemangordon | :) |
| 16:40.35 | freemangordon | wanna more? |
| 16:40.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | looks like 19200 |
| 16:40.42 | freemangordon | :nod: |
| 16:40.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah, thanks |
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| 17:19.13 | Sicelo009N | ceene: ping |
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| 17:30.23 | ceene | Sicelo009N: pong |
| 17:32.32 | Sicelo009N | any idea why my sister can't send me a message on whatsapp (Lumia 520)? she gets a yellow triangle with exclamation mark. |
| 17:32.40 | Sicelo009N | that's encryption maybe? |
| 17:32.50 | ceene | maybe |
| 17:32.53 | ceene | do you see something in your log? |
| 17:33.05 | ceene | though i've never seen that icon on any android |
| 17:33.30 | Sicelo009N | hmm, i will check further. let me fire up sqlite |
| 17:33.44 | ceene | you don't need sqlite for this |
| 17:33.47 | ceene | just old yappari.log |
| 17:34.03 | ceene | the thing tha happens now is that someone sends you an encrypted message |
| 17:34.12 | ceene | yappari then tells them "sorry, only clear text" |
| 17:34.26 | ceene | and the other party sometimes resends the same message without encryption |
| 17:34.39 | ceene | but some other times, they won't resend the message |
| 17:34.46 | ceene | although the next message they send is now clear |
| 17:35.00 | ceene | this back and forth is visible on yappari.log |
| 17:36.31 | Sicelo009N | okay. looking. problem is it's been some days |
| 17:36.42 | Sicelo009N | only now my other sister tells me of this problem |
| 17:36.53 | Sicelo009N | 2nd sister using Android |
| 17:37.57 | ceene | type=plaintext-only |
| 17:38.00 | ceene | you can grep for that |
| 17:38.27 | ceene | and check if it matches what she tells you, by looking at the context around, maybe |
| 17:39.03 | ceene | when yappari receives a ciphered message it doesn't send receipt or read acknowledges |
| 17:39.32 | ceene | so at least i'm sure she won't see green nor blue ticks |
| 17:40.06 | Sicelo009N | yes, she does say there aren't ticks |
| 17:40.36 | Sicelo009N | as far as you know, can a user 'control' their side not to send me encrypted messages? |
| 17:40.52 | ceene | not that i know |
| 17:41.04 | ceene | but i believe that at least after the first non clear message |
| 17:41.10 | ceene | the following ones should arrive you |
| 17:41.20 | ceene | since she can see that you haven't received it, she can send it again |
| 17:41.22 | Sicelo009N | omg, i see lots of these encrypted things in log, lol |
| 17:41.41 | ceene | it's tiresome, because her client will forget from time to time that you don't want encrypted messages |
| 17:41.46 | ceene | so it will happen frequently :/ |
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| 17:42.39 | Sicelo009N | thanks for efforts thus far :) |
| 17:43.02 | ceene | i'm afraid they won't be enough |
| 17:43.06 | ceene | i'm trying to implement textsecure |
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| 17:43.17 | ceene | but it's quite a hellish thing to do, even more so when i don't really know c++ |
| 17:43.56 | Sicelo009N | i can imagine |
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| 17:53.46 | Sicelo009N | btw, noticed Tizen has Whatsapp :) |
| 17:53.58 | Sicelo009N | official, i will assume |
| 17:55.36 | bencoh | ceene: let's just rewrite everything in C/gtk :* |
| 17:55.43 | Sicelo009N | ceene: do you think/know the supported S40 phones are able to read/send encrypted messages? |
| 17:55.52 | ceene | can i download that? |
| 17:56.13 | ceene | Sicelo009N: i'm looking right now at s40 version and yes, they implement axolotl |
| 17:56.48 | ceene | bencoh: i'd have to learn gtk then... |
| 17:56.50 | Sicelo009N | download what? Tizen's Whatsapp? No idea. I saw it on tmo thread regarding update of Z1 or some such... |
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| 17:57.10 | ceene | yes, i'd like to see it |
| 17:57.13 | bencoh | ceene: :] |
| 17:57.59 | bencoh | ceene: looks like you're as fond of GUI development as I am :] |
| 17:58.12 | ceene | bencoh: i've never coded any gui for anything |
| 17:58.24 | ceene | i'm just not able to |
| 17:58.25 | ceene | dunno |
| 17:58.39 | ceene | well, i did something on visual basic 4.0 :) |
| 17:58.46 | ceene | i was a hax0r back then, when i was 14 |
| 17:58.47 | ceene | lol |
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| 17:59.15 | ceene | if i had to write yappari's ui myself, we wouldn't have any at all |
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| 17:59.20 | bencoh | haha |
| 17:59.26 | bencoh | ceene: sounds like me :D |
| 17:59.26 | Sicelo009N | Tizen --> http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1498030&postcount=1 |
| 18:01.07 | ceene | i can't get a link to download it |
| 18:02.52 | Sicelo009N | i doubt there is. likely bundled. :( |
| 18:06.03 | ceene | i'm not sure if it's native client or if it's android's |
| 18:06.12 | ceene | they have one thing called ACL that allows you to run android apps |
| 18:06.34 | Sicelo009N | could be |
| 18:07.41 | ceene | ACLTM for Linux |
| 18:08.00 | ceene | that'll allow us to run whatever |
| 18:08.11 | ceene | so we have to go and pay these people a heck of money, probably |
| 18:09.51 | ceene | android's whatsapp is a java written gui + libwhatsapp.so |
| 18:09.57 | ceene | i guess that all the interesting bits are there |
| 18:10.07 | ceene | someone could probably use libwhatsapp.so |
| 18:10.13 | ceene | and forget about all the protocol intrincacies |
| 18:10.28 | ceene | running, of course, closed source code |
| 18:11.52 | Sicelo009N | would that .so be useable somehow on N900? |
| 18:12.09 | ceene | i think so |
| 18:12.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | or someone could just build a gateway to that whatsapp universe, for more sane protocols like IRC or XMPP |
| 18:12.17 | ceene | although i haven't studied it much |
| 18:12.27 | ceene | DocScrutinizer05: the thing is that whatsapp is indeed xmpp, pretty much |
| 18:12.49 | ceene | replacing all the xml strings with binary codes, just a dictionary translation |
| 18:13.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, a gateway would be highly useful |
| 18:13.09 | ceene | i find however all xml-based protocol to be insufferable |
| 18:13.14 | ceene | i think there exists one |
| 18:13.18 | ceene | based on libpurple |
| 18:13.23 | ceene | that attachs to a bitlbee instance |
| 18:13.33 | ceene | so you can bridge irc<->whatsapp |
| 18:13.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | I thought of a webservice |
| 18:14.11 | ceene | if even thought of running an android emulator |
| 18:14.20 | ceene | and reading whatsapp conversations database |
| 18:14.26 | ceene | which is just sqlite |
| 18:14.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | such a webservice could even provide connection to plain SMS |
| 18:15.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | outboubd would cost money of course |
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| 18:18.25 | ceene | something like that, using real wa as the backend would be useful basically forever |
| 18:18.28 | ceene | without much burden |
| 18:18.38 | ceene | i could even charge people for that :P |
| 18:19.11 | ceene | i've managed to get a tizen image |
| 18:19.23 | ceene | it's basically lots of partition images zipped into one file |
| 18:19.27 | ceene | and i've mounted a couple of them |
| 18:19.32 | ceene | that thing runs systemd |
| 18:20.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://xkcd.com/792/ |
| 18:20.33 | ceene | yes, i could also become an evil master overlord |
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| 18:22.26 | ceene | bin/TizenInstallerStub: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, ARM, EABI5 version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked, interpreter /lib/ld-linux.so.3, BuildID[sha1]=cc65549772dd68d7523bd8e0c0f2eeba5c7e4410, not stripped |
| 18:22.34 | ceene | this thing seems to be the one that installs whatsapp on tizen |
| 18:25.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | >>well, that's where I got stuck<< ;-P |
| 18:27.40 | ceene | don't know |
| 18:27.47 | ceene | really, maybe the easiest thing would be that in fact |
| 18:27.52 | ceene | running a bunch of android emulators |
| 18:27.55 | ceene | or whatever |
| 18:28.21 | ceene | or android for x86, don't know if that exists and if whatsapp runs on that |
| 18:29.48 | bencoh | ceene: there is a purple-like bitlbee |
| 18:30.00 | bencoh | err, strike that. there is a bitlbee-like purple-based gateway |
| 18:30.31 | bencoh | (there's also a bitlbee purple plugin, but ...) |
| 18:30.51 | ceene | the best wa implementation right now is yowsup |
| 18:30.58 | ceene | it implemented textsecure even before whatsapp |
| 18:30.59 | ceene | ! |
| 18:31.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOL |
| 18:31.30 | bencoh | :)) |
| 18:32.19 | ceene | i don't know, this whatsapp business bores me a little more each day |
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| 18:32.35 | ceene | i understand why scorpius got fed up with it |
| 18:32.58 | bencoh | ceene: do you use it? |
| 18:33.16 | ceene | yes, but not very much, to be honest |
| 18:33.26 | Sicelo009N | what makes yowsup hard to port for N900? |
| 18:33.37 | ceene | i don't speak with anyone directly, but i'm on three groups |
| 18:33.54 | ceene | and my gf is in all of them too |
| 18:34.09 | ceene | Sicelo009N: nothing at all, it's written on python, so i think it would just work TM |
| 18:34.13 | ceene | but there's no gui for it |
| 18:34.28 | ceene | it'll be slow and power hungry |
| 18:34.32 | ceene | but it'll work |
| 18:34.46 | ceene | maybe i can use that server side |
| 18:34.49 | bencoh | I'm not sure you want to go that way |
| 18:35.00 | ceene | not at all |
| 18:35.08 | ceene | python2.7 doesn't know how to do a non busy wait |
| 18:35.09 | ceene | :s |
| 18:35.21 | ceene | even sleep(30) uses power |
| 18:35.25 | bencoh | haha |
| 18:35.56 | Sicelo009N | then bencoh could port that python to c for us :) |
| 18:35.59 | ceene | i was in conversations with the offlineimap folks and the conclusion was that |
| 18:36.17 | ceene | dunno, i'm starting to think seriously about yowsup server side |
| 18:36.21 | tm | ceene: yes - we can! |
| 18:36.29 | bencoh | (talking about offlineimap, you should try mbsync) |
| 18:36.33 | ceene | tm: lol ! |
| 18:36.44 | ceene | bencoh: in the end i built an exchange server on a linux server of mine |
| 18:37.05 | ceene | so my server gets mail, passes it through procmail so i don't get spam on the phone |
| 18:37.16 | ceene | which in the end is more battery, less data comsumption |
| 18:37.19 | bencoh | Sicelo009N: no way I'd read python code and parse/pack some binary-encoded-xml in C :p |
| 18:37.26 | ceene | and exchange on n900 supports server push |
| 18:37.29 | ceene | so i get mail instantly |
| 18:37.57 | bencoh | why don't you use modest+dovecot? |
| 18:38.05 | bencoh | (or any other imap server on your linux box) |
| 18:38.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://blog.whatsapp.com/245/Why-we-dont-sell-ads? is actually tempting to like whatsapp, but then I heard it got raped by suckerberg |
| 18:38.21 | ceene | because modest by itself doesn't support push email |
| 18:38.29 | ceene | IDLE command on IMAP servers |
| 18:38.31 | bencoh | ceene: it has no support for IDLE? |
| 18:38.33 | ceene | nop |
| 18:38.58 | ceene | but exchange does |
| 18:39.00 | bencoh | I wonder how hard it would be to add it to tinymail |
| 18:39.07 | ceene | so less battery and faster email |
| 18:39.24 | ceene | i don't like modest either |
| 18:39.28 | ceene | but that's another issue |
| 18:39.44 | ceene | gotta go now, guys |
| 18:39.46 | ceene | see ya! |
| 18:39.54 | Sicelo009N | bencoh: i've asked many times ... probably lack of interest, or something like that? :) |
| 18:40.09 | Sicelo009N | myself too dumb for those kinds of things |
| 18:41.04 | bencoh | Sicelo009N: I don't use it (whatsapp), I don't like reading (or writing/debugging, for that matters) python code, and I dont fancy xml parsing ;) |
| 18:42.44 | Sicelo009N | i meant tinymail ;) |
| 18:43.02 | bencoh | ah |
| 18:43.24 | Sicelo009N | whatsapp ... i can quit it anytime. just going to have to persuade my sisters to use something else (easier said than done though) |
| 18:43.27 | bencoh | (well I dont use it either, but that doesn't as bad as the other one ^^) |
| 18:43.43 | bencoh | sound* |
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| 18:46.05 | Sicelo009N | i use it :) |
| 18:46.23 | Sicelo009N | almost every little N900 feature i use |
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| 18:48.40 | Sicelo009N | stock applications mostly |
| 18:52.20 | Sicelo009N | qalendar is the one main replacment i'm using. omp i use, but do use stock one as well. in addition to modest i use mutt for my gmail. everything else .. stock |
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| 20:03.56 | Vajb | ok value 0x28 turned surprisingly when i hit over ten cycles. |
| 20:04.31 | Vajb | now it is 0x0b which i believe means 11 |
| 20:05.13 | Vajb | in /sys/class/power_supply/bq27200-0/registers |
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| 20:11.10 | Sicelo | of course, hehe |
| 20:11.53 | Vajb | well maybe for u, but for me it was surprise :p |
| 20:12.16 | Sicelo | 0x means Hexadecimal |
| 20:12.33 | Vajb | so 0x0j would be 20? |
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| 20:12.50 | Sicelo | no. no such :) |
| 20:12.55 | Sicelo | stops at F |
| 20:12.55 | Vajb | haha |
| 20:13.05 | Sicelo | F = 15 |
| 20:13.20 | Vajb | not 16? |
| 20:13.30 | Maxdamantus | 16 is 0x10 |
| 20:13.41 | Vajb | ah right |
| 20:13.53 | Maxdamantus | https://qph.is.quoracdn.net/main-qimg-c9468c7f3d7bcef7b0f2d0fdf83328d4 |
| 20:13.54 | Sicelo | max beat me to it :) |
| 20:13.57 | Vajb | forgot 10 from my count |
| 20:15.34 | Vajb | also that comic doesn't make sense to me :p |
| 20:15.46 | Sicelo | ;) |
| 20:16.11 | Maxdamantus | 10_2 = 2 |
| 20:16.16 | Maxdamantus | 10_8 = 8 |
| 20:16.21 | Maxdamantus | 10_16 = 16 |
| 20:16.27 | Maxdamantus | generally, 10_x = x |
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| 20:17.01 | bencoh | ? |
| 20:17.24 | Maxdamantus | (where `a_b` means the sequence `a` interpreted in base `b` (where b is described in base 10)) |
| 20:17.28 | Sicelo | i think _ in Maxdamantus' convention means base |
| 20:17.28 | Vajb | but let me be clear 0x10 is 16, so is 0x19 25? |
| 20:17.41 | Maxdamantus | Yes. |
| 20:17.55 | Sicelo | patent that Maxdamantus! before someone steals your idea :p |
| 20:18.08 | Maxdamantus | That's already fairly typical notation. |
| 20:18.23 | Maxdamantus | using a subscript to denote the base. |
| 20:18.43 | Sicelo | yes, that one i knew, but not _ :) |
| 20:18.45 | Maxdamantus | _ is also typically used to denote a subscript. |
| 20:18.58 | Sicelo | okay. first time i see it myself |
| 20:20.00 | Maxdamantus | It might come from TeX, though in TeX you'd have to write `10_{16}` for the last one, otherwise the `6` won't come out in subscript form. |
| 20:20.50 | bencoh | :) |
| 20:21.19 | Sicelo | okay. never learned TeX/LaTeX .. still wish to |
| 20:22.09 | Maxdamantus | It's a horrible system. You shouldn't wish to learn it. |
| 20:22.31 | Maxdamantus | Although I'm not aware of any practical alternatives. |
| 20:22.34 | bencoh | haha, usually you dont really want to but have to, because it's the only "sane" solution |
| 20:23.08 | Vajb | okies. Now i know what value to wait to know when to recalibrate battery. That is 0x1e :) |
| 20:23.19 | bencoh | Maxdamantus: it's turing-complete! :] |
| 20:23.32 | Vajb | equals 30 cycles =) |
| 20:23.36 | bencoh | Vajb: why dont you use i2cget? |
| 20:23.47 | Maxdamantus | I tried writing a parser combinator library in it once. |
| 20:23.50 | bencoh | playing with the bq27x registers is fun, but... |
| 20:24.19 | Maxdamantus | but it's just too confusing a system. |
| 20:24.24 | Vajb | well i have bnf and i like it. It just lags that one feature i wish to have |
| 20:24.40 | Sicelo | bencoh: i think he has replacement bme |
| 20:24.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | >> numbers take the form [base#]n, where the optional base is a decimal number between 2 and 64 representing the arithmetic base, and n is a number in that base. If base# is omitted, then base 10 is used<< I suggest ********#077 however, to avoid the base base problem. At least for Seti and for gold plates on voyager |
| 20:24.46 | bencoh | Maxdamantus: I know a small non-profit that used to have its subscriber information system written in... tex :] |
| 20:24.49 | Maxdamantus | There aren't really any clear semantics. It's just this massive stack of macro libraries that determine how your program reduces. |
| 20:24.52 | Vajb | bencoh ^ |
| 20:24.54 | bencoh | ISP* |
| 20:25.16 | Sicelo | Vajb: 0x1e in register 0x28? why? |
| 20:25.19 | bencoh | Sicelo: you can still use it :) |
| 20:25.34 | Sicelo | yes. not recommended though :) |
| 20:26.00 | Sicelo | and you've to add some other flag, was it -y or some such.. forgot |
| 20:26.07 | bencoh | someone (pali iirc) went through the different i2cget calls in the bq27*.sh script and it was safe |
| 20:26.11 | Maxdamantus | Vajb: https://gist.github.com/Maxdamantus/ada1412f3ef6ae1c440e |
| 20:26.12 | bencoh | yeah, -f or something |
| 20:26.28 | Vajb | Sicelo: well to know to let my device turn off by low power to get it calibrated again |
| 20:26.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | Vajb: bq27200 will _tell_ you when CI=1 |
| 20:26.46 | Maxdamantus | cc bq27200.c -o bq27200 |
| 20:26.52 | Maxdamantus | then you can ./bq27200 |
| 20:27.21 | luf_ | DocScrutinizer05: How is it going with neo900? |
| 20:27.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | we're stumbling from one obstacle into next. otherwise fine |
| 20:28.31 | Vajb | hmm DocScrutinizer05 maybe i've missed that value change, but so far i have noticed the need for calibration when battery measurements go back to stock values and bnf stops working |
| 20:28.33 | luf_ | That's pitty. |
| 20:28.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | bencoh: well, actually I wrote the script and I checked the i2cgets are safe ;-) |
| 20:29.05 | bencoh | ah :) |
| 20:29.19 | bencoh | (are we talking about the same script?) |
| 20:29.21 | Maxdamantus | i2cget doesn't usually seem to work while you have the bq27200 module loaded. |
| 20:29.27 | Maxdamantus | (on those registers) |
| 20:29.39 | Sicelo | replacement bme won't allow the 'regular' i2cget read |
| 20:29.44 | Sicelo | yes, Maxdamantus +` |
| 20:29.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe you talk about ShadowJK's version which is derived from mine |
| 20:29.53 | bencoh | DocScrutinizer05: indeed |
| 20:30.28 | Maxdamantus | You can just use my C program, which is derived from ShadowJK's script but doesn't take a second to run. |
| 20:30.29 | Sicelo | even yours doc. won't run without modification. |
| 20:30.32 | Sicelo | just tried it now :) |
| 20:30.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | huh? |
| 20:30.57 | Sicelo | Error: could not sett address to 0x55: Device or resource busy |
| 20:31.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, that's because of bq27200.ko occupies the chip |
| 20:31.21 | Vajb | yes bq refuses to work with bme-replacement |
| 20:31.45 | Sicelo | 22:26 < bencoh> yeah, -f or something |
| 20:31.54 | Sicelo | that's what's needed for that one |
| 20:31.55 | Vajb | and after bme-replacement goes to "not calibrated" state bnf stops working too |
| 20:31.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | and the dang module exports gibberish to /sys/*/registers |
| 20:32.52 | Vajb | but if i unload some module (maybe rx51_battery) bq starts to work |
| 20:33.03 | Sicelo | while everyone's here .. my battery is now never really 100% full. too old i know. or might something else be 'bad' software-wise? |
| 20:33.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | I felt like "fsck it" when realizing that it needs a whole parser to make sense from /sys/*/registers |
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| 20:33.41 | Maxdamantus | https://gist.github.com/Maxdamantus/ada1412f3ef6ae1c440e#file-bq27200-c-L14-L36 |
| 20:33.43 | Maxdamantus | Like that. |
| 20:34.10 | Vajb | but today i learnt somethign valuable of hexadecimals. Maybe from now on i give my phone number on hex when asked :) |
| 20:34.19 | Sicelo | :D |
| 20:34.27 | bencoh | :] |
| 20:34.33 | Sicelo | you might be contacted by the NSA |
| 20:34.40 | Vajb | haha |
| 20:34.57 | Vajb | who knows, maybe they offer me a job :p |
| 20:35.02 | bencoh | I kinda remember someone having its phone number in hex form on his CV |
| 20:35.27 | bencoh | pretty efficient against spam or unwanted job offers, while still reaching the relevant people |
| 20:35.33 | Sicelo | Vajb: or they remind you of your unpaid taxes haha |
| 20:35.56 | Vajb | heheh |
| 20:36.31 | Vajb | but now im off to sleep, nite |
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