| 00:03.56 | *** join/#maemo smhar (~salman@178.132.44.178) |
| 00:09.44 | brolin_empey | â<Pali> has any agency more than 3 letters? :Dâ Yes: CSIS in Canada. |
| 01:11.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | ETLAA |
| 01:12.04 | Wizzup | GHCQ |
| 01:12.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | Extended Three Letter Acronym Agencies ;-) |
| 01:16.11 | *** join/#maemo Kilroo (~Kilroo@98.27.26.236) |
| 01:29.47 | brolin_empey | wonders if âFSB intelâ is ever ambiguous in Russia. |
| 01:39.07 | brolin_empey | Incidentally: Is PATAâSuperSpeed USB possible in practice? Is there a hardware implementation of such a converter/bridge? |
| 01:40.40 | brolin_empey | I know that SATAâSuperSpeed USB hardware is commercially available but I wonder if High-speed (480 Mb/s) USB is the fastest possible in practice for PATA? |
| 01:43.55 | brolin_empey | PATA supports up to at least 133 MB (or MiB?)/s so I guess PATAâSuperSpeed USB has a benefit/advantage in practice over PATAâHigh-speed USB. |
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| 01:47.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | PATA-Modus Ultra-DMA-133 (UDMA 6) up to 133 MB/s |
| 01:48.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~133*8 |
| 01:48.16 | infobot | 1064 |
| 01:48.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | 1064/480 |
| 01:48.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~1064/480 |
| 01:48.44 | infobot | 2.216666666667 |
| 01:48.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | times faster - in theory |
| 01:49.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | I rather doubt such fast HDD are still available with PATA interface |
| 01:50.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | in the times where PATA was 'state of the art', 480Mb/s were sufficient for the bandwidth of the HDD |
| 01:51.44 | brolin_empey | I wonder what is the fastest PATA transfer mode supported by the IBM ThinkPad 755CD from 1995. My ThinkPad 755CD is currently booting and running from a CompactFlash card but I wonder if a PATA SSD (not CF card) will be faster. |
| 01:53.33 | brolin_empey | DocScrutinizer05: I currently use PATA SSDs (not CF cards) from KingSpec. |
| 02:07.13 | brolin_empey | DocScrutinizer05: I mostly use âKingSpec 2.5" IDE/PATA SSD 32GB KSD-PA25.6-032MSâ, which costs around 40 USD on eBay including shipping from one of the two Chinas to Canada, but I have a 128-GB 1.8-inch PATA SSD (KingSpec KSD-CF18.6-128MS) too (in my Dell Latitude X1 fanless 80686 notebook computer). |
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| 02:48.22 | svetlana | > Eu internet consultation closes soon - dont' forget to submit http://dontwreckthe.net/ |
| 02:48.36 | svetlana | (you have to live in eu) just ran into this, dunno whether it's still available |
| 02:50.53 | brolin_empey | svetlana: Presumably you mean EU as in European Union, not Estados Unidos. |
| 02:59.03 | svetlana | haha yes.. and I actually think you don't have to live in eu, it has that option |
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| 03:36.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | brolin_empey: right, I forgot there's legacy stuff like that |
| 03:47.37 | brolin_empey | svetlana: I live in the Confederated Provinces and Territories of (North) America AKA (Socialist) Canuckistan. |
| 03:48.51 | svetlana | I think you can fill it in if you live outside of EU actually, I just don't know whether they're going to care as much |
| 03:52.16 | brolin_empey | AKA the Constitutional Monarchy of Canada, previously the Dominion of Canada until 1982. |
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| 04:04.45 | brolin_empey | DocScrutinizer05: Forgetting about legacy stuff and still using a Nokia N900 in year 2016 is a surprising combination. ;-) |
| 04:06.52 | *** join/#maemo mp_ (~mp@213-238-69-84.adsl.inetia.pl) |
| 04:08.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | hey, I also use quite up-to-date stuff too |
| 04:10.10 | brolin_empey | DocScrutinizer05: I like the quotation of Oscar Wilde: âIt is only the modern that becomes old-fashioned.â |
| 04:17.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | funny and cheerfull to answer questions of http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1493827&postcount=2746 |
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| 05:03.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | \o/ twitter msg length 10k char. And mad dog North Korea allegedly has tested H-bomb. Heck this is a great day in histroy |
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| 08:45.04 | jonwil | hi |
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| 09:06.03 | Vajb | had to reboot to get my device to find phone network again. What else could i have done beside reboot? |
| 09:06.24 | KotCzarny | turn on plane mode? |
| 09:06.28 | Vajb | beside=instead |
| 09:06.50 | Vajb | right! |
| 09:06.52 | KotCzarny | sometimes sim/chip reseats itself and its enough to turn modem off/on |
| 09:07.03 | Vajb | that didn't even cross my mind |
| 09:07.12 | KotCzarny | powerkey menu much? |
| 09:07.32 | Vajb | come again? |
| 09:07.49 | KotCzarny | just paraphrasing some meme |
| 09:08.09 | Vajb | or you meant flight mode can be found there |
| 09:08.22 | KotCzarny | that too |
| 09:08.36 | Vajb | :) |
| 09:08.53 | KotCzarny | explaining the thought train: if you use powerkey menu more often you would remmeber the options you had in there |
| 09:08.56 | Vajb | oh well my phone has been acting few weeks now |
| 09:09.17 | Vajb | it loses network and finds it again soon |
| 09:09.38 | KotCzarny | reseat sim? |
| 09:10.00 | Vajb | yes and since i rarely reboot that didn't even come to mind |
| 09:10.14 | Vajb | i did that at summer |
| 09:10.24 | Vajb | also cleaned sim contacts |
| 09:10.56 | Vajb | and put small piece of tape to add more pressure there |
| 09:11.17 | Vajb | to squeeze at the best spot :) |
| 09:11.22 | KotCzarny | too much of the tape and it could made things worse |
| 09:11.31 | KotCzarny | if your modem starts unsoldering |
| 09:11.45 | Vajb | it's only one layer of electric tape |
| 09:12.02 | Vajb | dunno if it even makes any pressure |
| 09:12.14 | Vajb | electrician* |
| 09:12.25 | *** join/#maemo realitygaps (~realityga@unaffiliated/realitygaps) |
| 09:13.01 | Vajb | but thx for the hint now i gtg |
| 09:13.04 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 09:26.01 | ceene | which is the right procedure when changing battery? |
| 09:26.12 | KotCzarny | 1/ turn off the device |
| 09:26.18 | KotCzarny | 2/ take out old battery |
| 09:26.22 | KotCzarny | 3/ put in new one |
| 09:26.26 | KotCzarny | 4/ turn on the device |
| 09:26.29 | KotCzarny | done |
| 09:26.36 | ceene | :P |
| 09:26.45 | ceene | full charge and calibration by slowly discharging? |
| 09:27.19 | KotCzarny | if you meant calibration then suck it dry, full charge, suck it dry again (regular/low use) |
| 09:27.35 | KotCzarny | capacity should stabilize after few cycles |
| 09:27.52 | ceene | ok! |
| 09:28.16 | bencoh | unless you were talking about the bq27xx calibration |
| 09:28.28 | bencoh | which has nothing to do with any battery cleaning / cycle |
| 09:28.50 | ceene | i don't know what i'm talking about, i want it to work as best as possible |
| 09:29.21 | KotCzarny | i would just use it |
| 09:30.36 | bencoh | ceene: do you use stock bme or pali's bme replacement? |
| 09:30.48 | ceene | pali's one |
| 09:31.08 | bencoh | then you need to go through calibration of the bq27xx |
| 09:31.32 | bencoh | which mean full charge / discharge |
| 09:31.41 | bencoh | (dont let it die though) |
| 09:31.59 | ceene | ok, i think i've done that before |
| 09:32.24 | KotCzarny | bencoh, i've read that its not important keeping it alive, just doing low mA discharge |
| 09:32.28 | bencoh | use the bq27*.sh script to keep an eye on the chip registers and the battery voltage/level/drawed current |
| 09:32.31 | bencoh | drawn* |
| 09:33.15 | bencoh | KotCzarny: if you dont mind messing your FAT, sure, it's not important :) |
| 09:33.35 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 09:34.11 | KotCzarny | i dont mind, i keep mostly mp3s there |
| 09:34.50 | ceene | i can always umount sdcard |
| 09:35.19 | bencoh | emmc too, but yeah, I guess you could |
| 09:35.37 | bencoh | (MyDocs) |
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| 10:00.55 | Vajb | i think that fiddling with those bq27 scripts is no longer needed with bme-replacement |
| 10:01.11 | Vajb | at least i didn't have to use them anymore |
| 10:01.27 | Vajb | tho it took awhile to get mugen calibrated |
| 10:02.32 | Vajb | also i thought that device shuts down before it actually runs out of juice completely |
| 10:02.39 | Vajb | to power down safely |
| 10:02.43 | bencoh | how did you check status? |
| 10:02.55 | KotCzarny | yes, close to 3250mV or something |
| 10:03.07 | Vajb | i didn't havfe to. I just used it till it powered down |
| 10:03.21 | Vajb | 3248 to be precice ;) |
| 10:03.23 | KotCzarny | but during shutdown power surge makes it insta turn off, could happen in a middle of the write |
| 10:03.29 | bencoh | stock bme powers down, but way too early. I don't know about bme-replacement |
| 10:04.05 | Vajb | yes with stock u needed scripts, but replacement is smarter or something |
| 10:04.14 | bencoh | cool |
| 10:05.03 | Vajb | and im speaking of bme-replacement from separate repo |
| 10:07.42 | Vajb | Sicelo: did u know that maemo pidgin has purple plugin also? I thought of maybe it could work just by copying libfacebook.so from desktop pidgin to maemo. |
| 10:07.59 | KotCzarny | you cant copy binary files |
| 10:08.07 | KotCzarny | you wil lhave to recompile it |
| 10:08.12 | Vajb | :( |
| 10:08.47 | Sicelo | yes : |
| 10:08.50 | Sicelo | :) |
| 10:09.19 | Sicelo | Vajb: by the way this is in connection with? because 'purple' *is* pidgin |
| 10:09.53 | Sicelo | ah, i see .. facebook .. you would need to compile the new pidgin plugin, which does work (presents itself to facebook as web app) |
| 10:09.57 | Vajb | no? |
| 10:10.25 | Vajb | there is pidgin-purple plugin or smth like that |
| 10:10.36 | Vajb | or purple-pidgin |
| 10:10.41 | KotCzarny | libpurple is the name of the pidgin core |
| 10:11.00 | Vajb | ok |
| 10:11.42 | Vajb | but anyways maemo pidgin has facebook (xmmp) and facebook after installing that |
| 10:11.55 | Vajb | problem is it doens't work still |
| 10:11.57 | bencoh | https://github.com/jgeboski/purple-facebook that one ? |
| 10:12.02 | Vajb | doesn't* |
| 10:12.08 | Vajb | yes |
| 10:12.12 | bencoh | Vajb: pidgin in maemo is probably quite outdated |
| 10:12.32 | Sicelo | not too bad :) |
| 10:12.34 | bencoh | I dunno if this purple-facebook plugin is still API-compatible with our pidgin version though |
| 10:13.04 | Vajb | i guess it is |
| 10:13.17 | Vajb | outdated :) |
| 10:13.28 | Vajb | no idea if it's compatible |
| 10:13.57 | KotCzarny | compare libpurple versions |
| 10:14.28 | Vajb | but as noted earlier battery lasts longer without facebook xmmp running... |
| 10:17.45 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 10:17.55 | KotCzarny | it's either features or idle |
| 10:27.42 | Vajb | problem with it is, that i used it while it worked... |
| 10:27.57 | Vajb | guess that'll have to eat some juice :) |
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| 10:29.38 | Sicelo | 3248mV should not shutdown device. 3000mV or just a bit higher |
| 10:32.55 | Sicelo | Vajb: when N900 doesn't see network, and you've tried all else KotCzarny suggested, do '#pnatd' AT+CFUN=0 (courtesy DocScrutinizer05). works all the time for me. no reboot |
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| 10:44.43 | Vajb | as root or user? |
| 10:45.34 | Sicelo | # ;) |
| 10:46.49 | Vajb | there is no stupid questinons ;) |
| 10:47.10 | Sicelo | of course, friend |
| 10:47.58 | Sicelo | <PROTECTED> |
| 10:48.02 | Sicelo | < Sicelo> ah, i see .. facebook |
| 10:48.05 | Sicelo | :) |
| 10:52.26 | bencoh | :] |
| 10:53.03 | bencoh | btw, read https://github.com/jgeboski/purple-facebook/wiki |
| 10:53.53 | bencoh | I wonder if it would play nice with haze (telepathy/purple bridge) |
| 10:54.51 | *** join/#maemo Sicelo009N (~sicelo@unaffiliated/sicelo) |
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| 11:01.20 | bencoh | maemo is running telepathy-haze 0.3.5 (2010-06-21).... pretty old |
| 11:02.03 | bencoh | and telepathy-glib 0.8.1 (oO) |
| 11:03.01 | bencoh | strange, telepathy-haze says that telepathy-glib>=0.9.2 is required for 0.3.5 to work... |
| 11:03.27 | bencoh | good luck to the one willing to dive into this |
| 11:03.38 | *** join/#maemo Sicelo009N (~sicelo@unaffiliated/sicelo) |
| 11:04.24 | bencoh | we probably cant update telepathy-glib since closed apps (hello phone features) depend on it, unless they kept ABI (which I doubt) |
| 11:16.30 | *** join/#maemo auenf (David@120.155.97.223) |
| 11:17.45 | Wizzup | bencoh: so identify apps and open them up :) |
| 11:21.08 | *** join/#maemo alexey (~alexey@216.ip-92-222-26.eu) |
| 11:21.56 | alexey | if somebody wants Nokia N810 for free, I'll give it away. My heart bleeds when I think about just throwing it away. Near mint condition. |
| 11:22.16 | Wizzup | What is your location? |
| 11:23.03 | Sicelo009N | i wish South Africa :) |
| 11:23.16 | alexey | Finland. I can post it, but I'm not paying for postage. |
| 11:23.44 | Wizzup | I am remotely interested (amsterdam, NL), but I feel that other people may deserve it more / have more use for it |
| 11:24.03 | Wizzup | I'm willing to pay for post, if you're going to bin it otherwise - but let's see if others have more need |
| 11:24.39 | alexey | For Amsterdam I may find somebody who goes there soon. |
| 11:26.35 | Sicelo009N | interested ... too far though :( |
| 11:30.29 | Wizzup | alexey: well, I'd like to wait a bit to see what others want -- but otherwise I am interested. I not sure how long you will be on? I can provide my email to have more latency-robust comms. Again - don't mind to see if someone else wants it instead. |
| 11:30.40 | Wizzup | Sicelo009N: you could check for the postage fees |
| 11:31.18 | alexey | Wizzup: I'm running IRC in screen on a hosted server, so no reason to leave before the final decision is made. |
| 11:31.25 | Wizzup | ack |
| 11:31.38 | Wizzup | does something similar |
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| 11:38.33 | Sicelo009N | i seem to suck at using dhl webste :D |
| 11:39.24 | Sicelo009N | i'm getting 150-200EUR which is kinda :O |
| 11:56.28 | svetlana | dhl website suck anyway |
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| 12:03.30 | KotCzarny | i wouldnt mind n810 |
| 12:03.56 | KotCzarny | but i have n800 already, so if wizzup doesnt own it he should get it |
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| 12:10.27 | KotCzarny | wow |
| 12:10.54 | KotCzarny | ups shows ~250eur for shipping finland -> south africa |
| 12:10.58 | Wizzup | KotCzarny: if you want it, go for it. |
| 12:11.07 | Wizzup | KotCzarny: makes you wonder how the chinese do it :) |
| 12:11.16 | KotCzarny | wizzup, bulk |
| 12:12.16 | *** join/#maemo Sicelo009N (~sicelo@unaffiliated/sicelo) |
| 12:12.32 | KotCzarny | sicelo, ups shown ~250eur for that package, crazy |
| 12:12.38 | Sicelo | yeah. i saw |
| 12:12.49 | Sicelo | i was on that page too. sucks |
| 12:13.23 | KotCzarny | lets go google |
| 12:13.55 | Sicelo | dhl was roughly same range |
| 12:15.20 | KotCzarny | tnt express shown ~33gbp |
| 12:16.20 | KotCzarny | ups express saver shipping is ~37gbp |
| 12:16.53 | KotCzarny | http://www.transglobalexpress.co.uk/quote/quote/ |
| 12:17.01 | KotCzarny | dont know how legit is that site though |
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| 12:18.31 | Vajb | hmm how much is flight to there... Temps here are so harsh that i would as well bring it lol |
| 12:18.33 | Sicelo | i'm in the bushes, haha. stone age. alexey, you can count me out. sd, but fair |
| 12:24.14 | *** join/#maemo hashcore (~hashcore@unaffiliated/hashcore) |
| 12:29.33 | bencoh | you might want to post on TMO :) |
| 12:32.12 | KotCzarny | make a contest about 'app for n8x0' and put yours as a trophy |
| 12:32.21 | Wizzup | o_O |
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| 13:23.31 | alexey | I'm too lazy to do that |
| 13:24.11 | alexey | just found well-used but seemingly working N900 phone |
| 13:26.01 | bencoh | moving out? :) |
| 13:27.27 | alexey | nope, just using free day (holiday in Finland today) to clean up the old stuff. Found 5 firewire cables, which puzzles me -- never owned anything that requires firewire |
| 13:27.35 | *** join/#maemo mp_ (~mp@213-238-69-84.adsl.inetia.pl) |
| 13:28.34 | bencoh | usb+firewire disk enclosure? |
| 13:32.00 | alexey | nope, using NASes. But maybe one or more of old NASes had firewire, that's a good point |
| 13:32.14 | Wizzup | alexey: flash the n900 and add cssu? :) |
| 13:44.54 | alexey | Okay, it seems to work, so my next offer: N900 phone, well-used but seemingly working, no accessories or box (but stylus and original headset are there) for free. Battery condition is, eghm, unknown. I can post from Finland but won't pay the postage. If nobody wants it, it goes to trash. |
| 13:51.29 | KotCzarny | alexey: leaving maemo? :/ |
| 13:54.08 | Wizzup | alexey: I have more interest in the n900 than in the n810, still living in amsterdam :) |
| 13:54.21 | Wizzup | have to dash for a bit. bbl. |
| 13:55.01 | Sicelo009N | omg alexey |
| 13:55.10 | KotCzarny | :> |
| 13:55.40 | alexey | I did leave Maemo years ago, at "N800 is almost ready" stage :) |
| 13:56.08 | KotCzarny | you did get n8x0 and n900 anyway? |
| 13:56.09 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 13:56.31 | KotCzarny | alexey, can you check how much is the shipping to poland? |
| 13:56.59 | KotCzarny | i guess wizzup will benefit from n900 more (i have 3.5 already) |
| 13:57.22 | KotCzarny | but n810 wouldnt be half bad too |
| 14:00.36 | alexey | KotCzarny: I'll check tomorrow; I think one of my colleagues will travel to Poland in a month or two |
| 14:00.45 | KotCzarny | cool |
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| 14:24.04 | Sicelo009N | do we know if tv-out causes high power consumption? |
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| 16:24.32 | fishbulb | is there anything "better" to run on an n900? |
| 16:24.54 | fishbulb | and is there a list of "best apps" that still work? |
| 16:24.55 | stryngs | fishbulb: the hackpack |
| 16:24.59 | stryngs | =) |
| 16:25.13 | fishbulb | you have my interest... |
| 16:25.40 | stryngs | https://n900-hackers.org/ |
| 16:25.46 | fishbulb | I dunno though, it's a dodo. I managed to crack wep once |
| 16:25.50 | stryngs | Enjoy =) |
| 16:26.06 | fishbulb | it's so slow, I have an android tablet that's faster than my last computer |
| 16:26.23 | fishbulb | what have you succeeded in doing? |
| 16:30.08 | stryngs | A whole lot with it. And now I have help, so even more. hackpack is based on PwnPhonev2 |
| 16:30.16 | stryngs | BUt it grew and matured from there. |
| 16:31.31 | fishbulb | what kinda interesting or cool stuff have you managed to do with it? |
| 16:34.19 | KotCzarny | oscp of course |
| 16:37.03 | stryngs | fishbulb: Scroll down to the bottom of https://n900-hackers.org/hackpack/DIRECTIONS_1.0 and you'll see all the .debs it has |
| 16:37.20 | stryngs | fishbulb: It's a pentest distro for the n900 |
| 16:37.27 | stryngs | fishbulb: Easiest way i can describe it =) |
| 16:38.46 | fishbulb | but have you done anything really cool? |
| 16:39.08 | fishbulb | I had pwnphone installed and honestly I think I managed to crack WEP twice ever |
| 16:39.20 | fishbulb | I mean pwnie express, and all that stuff |
| 16:42.37 | stryngs | yeah |
| 16:42.46 | stryngs | hackpack is way better than pwnphone |
| 16:42.51 | stryngs | A lot more mature so to speak |
| 16:42.59 | stryngs | v2 was cool and all, but hackpack destroys it performance wise |
| 16:53.23 | *** join/#maemo xorly (~xorly@ip-86-49-15-121.net.upcbroadband.cz) |
| 16:54.49 | fishbulb | ok but can you give a real world example of something interesting to do with it? |
| 16:55.20 | fishbulb | you can leave out the specifics if you want :P |
| 16:55.39 | fishbulb | I'm interested to see what someone has done with it |
| 16:57.01 | stryngs | It's metasploit in your pocket? |
| 16:57.11 | stryngs | and the things i have done with it, I am under NDA |
| 16:57.23 | stryngs | I'll leave it, that I actually use it on assessments |
| 16:57.29 | stryngs | It runs airpwn-ng |
| 16:58.09 | fishbulb | doesnt' any android phone or tablet do the same, but with 2gb of ram and a quadcore processor? |
| 16:59.06 | bencoh | not sure you can use the monitor mode of your wireless interface, or inject packets, with an android phone |
| 16:59.20 | stryngs | ^ |
| 16:59.26 | stryngs | And that's why i use an n900 |
| 16:59.29 | stryngs | I'm just a dude on a phone |
| 16:59.38 | stryngs | with the stupid tablet, you're some weirdo doing something bad |
| 16:59.44 | stryngs | plus... It's linux. |
| 16:59.55 | stryngs | What I do on the n900, can be ported to a pi |
| 17:00.32 | bencoh | I still think most of your work could go to extra, but meh, btw |
| 17:00.48 | stryngs | bencoh: It can't |
| 17:00.54 | stryngs | bencoh: I don't optimize |
| 17:00.56 | stryngs | I refuse to |
| 17:01.04 | stryngs | i.e. My root is about 9gb |
| 17:01.08 | stryngs | maemo is 256mb |
| 17:01.11 | bencoh | ... |
| 17:01.29 | fishbulb | you refuse to optimise and you refuse to check whether modern phones can do the same thing literlaly 100 times faster? |
| 17:01.32 | stryngs | my debs would overflow anybodies n900 |
| 17:01.39 | stryngs | fishbulb: Modern phones cannot |
| 17:01.43 | KotCzarny | [root@lamobo 18:01:30 ~]# df -h |
| 17:01.49 | KotCzarny | <PROTECTED> |
| 17:01.51 | stryngs | fishbulb: No other phone can do what the n900 can do with their wifi |
| 17:01.58 | fishbulb | yes they can, look at nethunter |
| 17:02.04 | bencoh | stryngs: not if you just enable a flag in your source package and push it to extras as a source package |
| 17:02.04 | stryngs | fishbulb: No they cant |
| 17:02.05 | KotCzarny | my router/nas/cloud/shell/audio box |
| 17:02.08 | bencoh | but nevermind |
| 17:02.10 | stryngs | fishbulb: Not without an external dongle |
| 17:02.44 | stryngs | bencoh: I also build natively, and so the .debs aren't "debian proper". Theres a host of reasons why it'll always be incompatible. |
| 17:02.57 | stryngs | bencoh: The way I look at it, if people want to use it, go for it. If not, oh well =) |
| 17:03.33 | stryngs | fishbulb: Not hating on nethunter, but until they figure out monitor mode for it, i'm not interested. |
| 17:03.55 | stryngs | fishbulb: Especially with the advent of the neo900, whenever that happens.... |
| 17:04.00 | stryngs | pokes DocScrutinizer05 |
| 17:21.38 | *** join/#maemo NIN101 (~core@mail2.quitesimple.org) |
| 17:26.00 | *** join/#maemo sparetire_ (~sparetire@unaffiliated/sparetire) |
| 17:27.03 | fishbulb | stryngs: 9gb root? |
| 17:27.20 | fishbulb | I have full desktop installs that aren't 9gb |
| 17:27.26 | fishbulb | what on earth? |
| 17:28.00 | fishbulb | it's awesome that you've kept something going, and I love seeing anything to do with the n900 |
| 17:28.49 | fishbulb | and it's beyond my linux skills, but why refuse to optimise? |
| 17:35.41 | *** join/#maemo nick20150916 (~v@188.65.67.173) |
| 17:39.27 | *** join/#maemo troulouliou_div2 (~troulouli@unaffiliated/troulouliou-div2/x-0271439) |
| 17:46.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: ((do we know if tv-out causes high power consumption?)) shouldn't |
| 17:53.06 | *** join/#maemo SAiF (~SAiF@116.68.123.75) |
| 17:56.07 | *** join/#maemo Gizmokid2005 (~Gizmokid2@dedi2.gizmokid2005.com) |
| 17:59.55 | *** join/#maemo Vajb (~Vajb@85-76-4-163-nat.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 18:00.11 | *** join/#maemo smhar (~salman@178.132.44.178) |
| 18:00.25 | Vajb | lost network again |
| 18:00.44 | Vajb | tried Sicelo's hint, but got nowhere |
| 18:01.01 | Vajb | also when i tried manually join to my network it said not allowed |
| 18:01.12 | KotCzarny | hmm |
| 18:01.20 | KotCzarny | but reboot fixed it? |
| 18:01.28 | Vajb | but KotCzarny's succestion to flight mode and back fixed it |
| 18:01.32 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 18:02.01 | KotCzarny | i think enabling plane mode turns off/resets modem chip |
| 18:02.05 | KotCzarny | i might be wrong tho |
| 18:02.08 | Vajb | sicelo's solution gave me no such folder error |
| 18:02.08 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 18:02.24 | Vajb | i guess it turns it off |
| 18:02.31 | KotCzarny | um, that AT command is to be ran in pnatd shell |
| 18:02.32 | Vajb | since it's for flight |
| 18:02.53 | Vajb | i guess i don't know how to use it :p |
| 18:02.54 | KotCzarny | ie. go root, then start: pnatd |
| 18:03.04 | KotCzarny | there you should enter string beginning with AT |
| 18:03.08 | Vajb | yes i got there |
| 18:03.21 | Vajb | and it said error no such folder |
| 18:03.26 | KotCzarny | typo? |
| 18:03.37 | Vajb | copy paste so hardly |
| 18:03.46 | KotCzarny | typo on sicelo's side? |
| 18:03.48 | *** join/#maemo realitygaps (~realityga@2a01:4a0:3::5096:aeb) |
| 18:03.48 | *** join/#maemo realitygaps (~realityga@unaffiliated/realitygaps) |
| 18:04.07 | Vajb | AT+CFUN=0 |
| 18:04.18 | Vajb | that's what i got |
| 18:04.48 | KotCzarny | at+gmr |
| 18:05.18 | KotCzarny | at+COPS=? (yes, with ? at the end) |
| 18:05.59 | Vajb | lets see |
| 18:07.02 | Sicelo009N | when i've had the issue, it was never 'solvable' by online->offline->online |
| 18:07.08 | Vajb | works |
| 18:07.33 | Sicelo009N | but at+cfun=0 has always worked 100%. maybe we have different root causes |
| 18:07.50 | KotCzarny | vajb: at+cfun=? or at+cfun |
| 18:07.50 | Sicelo009N | and it's not typo :) |
| 18:08.21 | Vajb | at+cfun=? says ok |
| 18:08.38 | Vajb | at+gmr gives some info about device |
| 18:08.52 | KotCzarny | you may also try: https://wiki.maemo.org/Phone_control#Enable_cellular_radio |
| 18:08.54 | Vajb | eeek |
| 18:09.08 | Vajb | at+cops=? says ok |
| 18:09.45 | Sicelo009N | at+cfun=0 .. response will be OK, then shortly you will see the sim card crossed out symbol, and the terminal will no longer respond. few seconds later the |
| 18:09.47 | Vajb | well as longer as flight mode thing makes it work im ok |
| 18:09.47 | KotCzarny | bot those dbus commands essentially do the same as powerkey thingy |
| 18:10.19 | Sicelo009N | modem should power up again |
| 18:10.39 | Sicelo009N | definitely a deeper cycle than offline->online |
| 18:11.14 | KotCzarny | well, i wonder what 'offline' mode in powerkey menu does |
| 18:11.50 | Vajb | ok will try that again if and when that happens again |
| 18:12.31 | Vajb | any thoughts of why it found my home network, but said not allowed when i tried to connect? |
| 18:12.37 | Sicelo009N | offline disables the modem. but not power-cycle it. SIM never 'disappears' |
| 18:13.13 | KotCzarny | vajb, maybe some roaming? |
| 18:13.13 | Vajb | actually i saw crossed sim symbol after i enabled online mode |
| 18:13.26 | Vajb | roaming? |
| 18:13.30 | KotCzarny | is it possible that there is some interference in your area? |
| 18:13.38 | Vajb | im at home country |
| 18:13.39 | KotCzarny | work done on the towers? |
| 18:13.49 | KotCzarny | vajb: inter operatora roaming |
| 18:14.05 | bencoh | no such folder? |
| 18:14.11 | Sicelo009N | then something's wrong on your N900. in all my time of ownership , never once had sim crossed out for Offline mode :) |
| 18:14.36 | Vajb | well there is almost -30. So maybe that does some funky business with towers |
| 18:14.44 | KotCzarny | yeah, for offline mode it shows '/G' |
| 18:15.08 | Vajb | but otherwise no idea |
| 18:15.37 | Sicelo | KotCzarny: you can actually test AT+CFUN yourself right now. no harm |
| 18:15.38 | Vajb | hmm could it be that that command actually worked without me realising it? |
| 18:16.04 | Vajb | i ran it and it whine then i closed terminal and did flight mode trick |
| 18:16.10 | KotCzarny | sicelo, i know what cfun does (roughly) |
| 18:16.25 | KotCzarny | i had my share of fun with 33.6k |
| 18:16.35 | KotCzarny | and later with usb modems |
| 18:17.06 | Sicelo | ok |
| 18:17.07 | KotCzarny | vajb: trick is to run at+cfun=1 later to reenable |
| 18:17.25 | Sicelo | nop. it reenables itself :) |
| 18:17.29 | KotCzarny | oh |
| 18:17.48 | Sicelo | takes a little bit, maybe 10-20s |
| 18:17.49 | Vajb | well i don't know what happened then |
| 18:17.59 | Vajb | atleast im back online |
| 18:18.19 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 18:18.30 | KotCzarny | welcome back then ;) |
| 18:18.44 | Vajb | thx :) |
| 18:19.17 | Vajb | i don't know what i do if this puppy dies |
| 18:19.30 | KotCzarny | grab the n900 from anthonov |
| 18:19.32 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 18:19.41 | KotCzarny | if wizzup doesnt snatch it earlier |
| 18:19.54 | Vajb | guess i'll just switch back to my reliable e90 heheh |
| 18:20.10 | Vajb | tho it needs screen replacement |
| 18:20.31 | KotCzarny | s/antonov/alexey/ |
| 18:20.54 | Vajb | oh yes |
| 18:21.10 | Vajb | where in finland you live alexey? |
| 18:21.11 | KotCzarny | you are in fi, he too |
| 18:21.48 | Vajb | yeah |
| 18:21.50 | KotCzarny | you can then send your failing n900 to wizzup for a development device |
| 18:22.41 | Vajb | hmm is it reliable enough for that? |
| 18:22.51 | KotCzarny | sure, its only modem failing |
| 18:23.03 | Vajb | i have that other which reboots randomly too |
| 18:23.04 | KotCzarny | and i bet he could use a device for package testing etc |
| 18:23.14 | stryngs | fishbulb: 9gb /. Its the way maemo is laid out. Typically your / is mounted on the 256mb NAND. I did some binds to avoid most of this |
| 18:23.41 | Vajb | i can try that with fresh flash and stuff if this refuses to connect completely |
| 18:37.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~optification |
| 18:37.49 | infobot | optification is a inventive duct tape workaround to reclaim space in fs root, done due to the fact the systeminit *and* partitioning is FUBAR, http://wiki.maemo.org/Documentation/Maemo_5_Developer_Guide/Packaging,_Deploying_and_Distributing/Installing_under_opt_and_MyDocs, or ""OMG - I wish they looked into FHS and moved /usr to eMMC"", http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 bullet1,2 and fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE16 dot3" |
| 18:38.39 | bencoh | +1 for FUBAR |
| 18:39.45 | stryngs | ^^ |
| 18:43.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | the nice thing for a 5+ years old system, still maintained. There's 95% you'll see a "been there done that" sign when you go there |
| 18:44.03 | stryngs | Yup |
| 18:44.05 | stryngs | n900 is king |
| 18:44.11 | stryngs | Viva la n900 |
| 18:44.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually I'm pretty sure some users even did a correct setup, moving complete /usr to eMMC and bindmounting it |
| 18:44.42 | KotCzarny | one cant move complete /usr without init hacking |
| 18:44.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | alas this will collide with all 'normal' maemo packages |
| 18:44.50 | stryngs | ^ |
| 18:44.52 | stryngs | Yup |
| 18:45.07 | bencoh | I'm not sure it would collide so much actually |
| 18:45.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | you first need to un-optify them before they could benefit from a proper /usr setup |
| 18:45.21 | KotCzarny | bencoh, there is some stuff required for boot in /usr |
| 18:45.22 | *** join/#maemo SAiF (~SAiF@116.68.123.75) |
| 18:45.59 | bencoh | DocScrutinizer05: it wouldn't prevent optified packages from working... would it? |
| 18:46.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | but again you're lucky, there's a script for that on your stock maemo5 system |
| 18:46.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | bencoh: nope, should work |
| 18:47.02 | KotCzarny | i personally moved whole perl to /opt, threw away the bind mounts and just symlinked it |
| 18:47.39 | stryngs | With my crazy bindmounts, I use maemo packages like normal |
| 18:47.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | the probelm rather is: several packages should have been moved from /usr/bin/* to /bin/ by maemo distro maintainers |
| 18:48.42 | bencoh | yeah |
| 18:48.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | maemo assumes /usr/(bin|lib|foo)/* being available during early boot, and that's the real brainfuck that finally led to optification |
| 18:49.01 | bencoh | someone forgot to read HSF :° |
| 18:49.15 | bencoh | err, not hsf |
| 18:49.26 | bencoh | fhs |
| 18:49.29 | stryngs | FHS? |
| 18:49.30 | KotCzarny | tbh nand should be only used for emergency boot/kernels etc. and use emmc/sd for everything |
| 18:49.32 | stryngs | ^ |
| 18:50.02 | KotCzarny | maybe i should grab my dev n900 and finish what i started |
| 18:50.16 | stryngs | ? |
| 18:50.21 | stryngs | KotCzarny: ^ that would be? |
| 18:50.34 | KotCzarny | stryngs: moving all to emmc/sd |
| 18:50.41 | stryngs | everything? |
| 18:50.53 | *** join/#maemo ced117 (~ced117@opensuse/member/ced117) |
| 18:50.53 | KotCzarny | everything |
| 18:50.57 | stryngs | please do |
| 18:51.06 | KotCzarny | because really, 256M more or less on emmc? |
| 18:51.14 | stryngs | yeah... |
| 18:52.48 | KotCzarny | would be really great if fmg & pali manage to make mainline with gsm-voice kernel working |
| 18:53.16 | stryngs | you know what would be even better? |
| 18:53.20 | stryngs | neo900 =) |
| 18:53.24 | stryngs | can't wait.. |
| 18:53.29 | KotCzarny | price is a killer for me |
| 18:53.33 | stryngs | I'll pay up |
| 18:53.36 | KotCzarny | unfortunatelly |
| 18:53.53 | stryngs | The price is high; but I'm willing to spend it. I love my n900 that much, and the lack of 802.11N sucks. |
| 18:54.04 | KotCzarny | 1000eur is a price of a small car ;) |
| 18:54.12 | stryngs | True. |
| 18:54.25 | stryngs | But look at what dummies pay for G6 iphone6S etc.. |
| 18:54.43 | KotCzarny | never had a samsung or iphone |
| 18:54.56 | KotCzarny | they are just toys for gaming |
| 18:55.05 | KotCzarny | and youtube |
| 18:58.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | stryngs: http://www.pathname.com/fhs/pub/fhs-2.3.html#PURPOSE2 |
| 19:01.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | hey Lennart, heard this? >>While you may have the root filesystem on a large partition, and may be able to fill it to your heart's content, there will be people with smaller partitions. If you have more files installed, you may find incompatibilities with other systems using root filesystems on smaller partitions. If you are a developer then you may be turning your assumption into a problem for a large number of users.<< |
| 19:03.00 | bencoh | :] |
| 19:06.41 | sixwheeledbeast | Why would he care about root partitions? |
| 19:06.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | what we need for maemo to sanitize is an anti-optify that moves all binaries in /usr/*/ that are _not_ symlinks to /OPT/*/*/* to the corrensponding /*/* location (i.e. /usr/lib/foo to /lib/foo if /usr/lib/foo is *not* a symlink). Then unoptify all the symlinked shuff and finally move /usr to eMMC |
| 19:07.28 | stryngs | I tried to rally the troops DocScrutinizer05 =) |
| 19:07.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: didn't you hear about systemd needing /usr to live on /, just like maemo |
| 19:07.37 | stryngs | I did... I gave up due to lack of interest... |
| 19:08.17 | stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: And I agreee about FHS and /, my typical build is: ./configure --prefix=/usr |
| 19:08.37 | sixwheeledbeast | DocScrutinizer05: nope, I wondered what started the topic |
| 19:08.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | sixwheeledbeast: poettering: >>nowadays every system has at least 5GB of /" (OWTTE) |
| 19:11.00 | KotCzarny | doc is proposing symlinking hell |
| 19:11.19 | KotCzarny | it really doesnt make sense to stop at half way |
| 19:11.45 | KotCzarny | we need / on emmc (all of it) and /home on another partition on emmc |
| 19:11.50 | Maxdamantus | has 27.4 GiB on / |
| 19:12.03 | sixwheeledbeast | but still why would he be bothered. systemd is far from "do one thing and do it well". |
| 19:12.06 | Maxdamantus | Why /home on another partition? |
| 19:12.24 | stryngs | for the camera i imagine |
| 19:12.25 | stryngs | MyDocs |
| 19:12.27 | stryngs | etc.. |
| 19:12.29 | KotCzarny | maxd to get rid of mydocs as a vfat |
| 19:12.37 | Maxdamantus | just has his root filesystem in /home/maemo5-root |
| 19:13.05 | Maxdamantus | did that, doesn't have a separate /home partition. |
| 19:13.07 | KotCzarny | (and yes, i want to get rid of emmc exporting via usb and using tinysamba |
| 19:14.42 | KotCzarny | maxd, main reason for separate /home is user data not being wiped during reflashing/rewriting / |
| 19:15.31 | KotCzarny | and filling up the fs by the same user not making system unbootable |
| 19:16.47 | KotCzarny | maybe we should have a poll on tmo about what size / and /home should be |
| 19:17.18 | stryngs | should be 30gb and home should be 2gb |
| 19:17.19 | stryngs | imho |
| 19:17.26 | stryngs | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:17.28 | stryngs | stupid irssi |
| 19:17.54 | Sicelo | what's going to occupy / then? |
| 19:18.13 | Humpelstilzchen | why separate partitions anyway? |
| 19:18.21 | bencoh | Humpelstilzchen: nand+eMMC |
| 19:18.27 | bencoh | cant make that disappear |
| 19:18.32 | Humpelstilzchen | lvm.. |
| 19:18.33 | KotCzarny | sicelo: everything -user data |
| 19:18.41 | bencoh | Humpelstilzchen: ah, hmm ... |
| 19:18.48 | Sicelo | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:18.49 | bencoh | not sure I'd want lvm on nand, but ... |
| 19:19.15 | Sicelo | <PROTECTED> |
| 19:19.45 | stryngs | 15 and 15 then |
| 19:19.49 | stryngs | But more than 256mb |
| 19:19.55 | stryngs | I use 9gb and it seems sane |
| 19:20.03 | stryngs | whatever the sed trick gives |
| 19:21.45 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: it might work with packages that use that maemo-optify thing |
| 19:21.48 | kerio | that's horrendously broken |
| 19:21.58 | kerio | but it won't work with packages that install themselves in /opt/ |
| 19:23.37 | stryngs | Personally, I don't care where packages install themselves; if I want to find something, I can dpkg -x it or whatever. For me, the main thing is don't FILL the / or any other partition. |
| 19:25.22 | Maxdamantus | doesn't randomly recreate root partitions on his computers, including his phone. |
| 19:25.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: packages that install themselves in /opt are arguably not broken or flawed. The real problem is to keep them untouched when we deoptify the system, since they also may have symlinks in /usr/* |
| 19:25.46 | kerio | you can't "deoptify" them |
| 19:25.47 | Maxdamantus | has `rm` for that. |
| 19:25.52 | kerio | without upgrading their packaging |
| 19:25.57 | kerio | and if you do that, dpkg takes care of it for you |
| 19:27.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/may have/may and *ought* have/ |
| 19:35.45 | stryngs | So what are we thinking ladies/gents... A new era for maemo? |
| 19:35.46 | fishbulb | hey you're debian nuts |
| 19:35.55 | stryngs | Shall we come together and build something, better? |
| 19:36.01 | stryngs | Captain planet style...? |
| 19:36.34 | fishbulb | captian planet didn't run for as long as this thing has been |
| 19:38.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm honestly convinced the future for fremantle is careful improvements, step after step. "Something new" is maybe appealing but for sure not maemo fremantle anymore |
| 19:38.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | all the beauty of maemo5 is in its maturity |
| 19:38.53 | *** join/#maemo Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali) |
| 19:41.03 | bencoh | hmm |
| 19:52.09 | *** join/#maemo futpib (~futpib@37.112.101.108) |
| 19:56.10 | KotCzarny | cssu is a chance for 'something new' |
| 19:56.23 | KotCzarny | lets not f*ck it with nokia wtfs |
| 19:57.46 | bencoh | KotCzarny: not really |
| 19:58.28 | stryngs | cssu, would be cool; if it could be done without a script. |
| 20:00.58 | bencoh | wtf? |
| 20:01.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | hehe |
| 20:01.26 | *** join/#maemo xes (~xes@unaffiliated/xes) |
| 20:01.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah, scripts are a nogo in *NIX |
| 20:01.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | cssu is the maemo4/5 *update* |
| 20:02.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | please don't get fooled into thinking of cssu as a new OS release |
| 20:04.03 | KotCzarny | it might be fremantle-reloaded 1.4.0 |
| 20:05.02 | Sicelo | yes, that's fine. we still need to keep 'normal' Maemo though for those that aren't interested in the fancy stuff |
| 20:05.29 | KotCzarny | sicelo, 1.3.1 images are for those users |
| 20:05.48 | Sicelo | no. those are outdated |
| 20:06.58 | Sicelo | and it isn't fair to introduce complexity for users not needing to go that far. we need to keep cssu as it is, then a geek fork can be launched on the side for those interested |
| 20:08.39 | KotCzarny | seriously, anyone still using n900 either is a hacker or linux geek |
| 20:08.45 | Sicelo | in this regard, you can conside Thumb to be a fork, and that works fine :) |
| 20:08.55 | Sicelo | KotCzarny: not necessarily |
| 20:09.10 | KotCzarny | sicelo, would be swell to have hardfloat os |
| 20:10.10 | Sicelo | there are many more N900 users than we see on IRC. go to Yappari thread to see .. some of those can't get a log from /home/user/.config/scorpius/yappari.log |
| 20:10.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | idly ponders if >50% of maemo genuine executables are scripts |
| 20:10.42 | KotCzarny | yappari could be nomore if wa keeps on breaking api/banning |
| 20:11.05 | Sicelo | the point is .. not all N900 users even know a lot of linux |
| 20:12.21 | Sicelo | by making CSSU become too geeky, we're basically 'killing' those people. so let's make geek forks all we want, but keep base system maintained as far as reasonably possible, i.e. CSSU |
| 20:12.32 | stryngs | Sicelo: You make a valid point |
| 20:12.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | the point is: even if they do, they might insist in a non-hacker version for their daily phone. I for one do |
| 20:12.50 | stryngs | What is this daily phone thing |
| 20:12.54 | stryngs | That blows my mind |
| 20:12.57 | Sicelo | ? |
| 20:13.02 | stryngs | To me, the n900 is my toy, but a phone? It sucks. |
| 20:13.08 | Sicelo | doesn't suck for me :) |
| 20:13.09 | stryngs | Slow browsing |
| 20:13.10 | stryngs | etc.. |
| 20:13.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | phh so what? |
| 20:13.18 | Sicelo | been my main phone since 2009 |
| 20:13.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | same here |
| 20:13.31 | stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: I'm used to Nexus5 for a "smartphone" |
| 20:13.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | and that's relevant to maemo how? |
| 20:14.01 | stryngs | I've just never seen how people would want to use it as an actual phone |
| 20:14.05 | stryngs | It's bulky, etc.. |
| 20:14.12 | Sicelo | (OT: my silent earpiece is killing me) |
| 20:14.21 | Sicelo | stryngs: it was sold as a phone haha |
| 20:14.22 | stryngs | I look at it as a computer that can make a phone call |
| 20:14.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | again, what's the relevance of your personal thoughts to 30k+ of maemo5 users? |
| 20:16.11 | stryngs | Meh, just my opinion =) |
| 20:16.17 | stryngs | And like an asshole, we all have em =) |
| 20:16.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | cssu is meant to ensure a extended livespan to the device for those 30k users, in a way they are used to and expect it to continue to work like that |
| 20:17.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | but I'm duplicating, just read the preamble in ~cssu |
| 20:18.27 | KotCzarny | smart phones should be names gaming phones |
| 20:18.32 | KotCzarny | n900 IS a smart phone |
| 20:18.44 | KotCzarny | for SMART people |
| 20:18.48 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 20:19.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: (silent earpiece) please elaborate |
| 20:19.33 | KotCzarny | sicelo, main thing is the package compatibility issue between old and new |
| 20:20.20 | KotCzarny | having everything on / means old packages should install/work fine, and new packages can be autooptified on install i think |
| 20:20.35 | KotCzarny | (when installed on old fremantle) |
| 20:21.59 | Sicelo | DocScrutinizer05: something causes the earpiece on my main N900 to not 'work' for phone calls. no sound. i have to either use loudspeaker or earphones. the earpiece is definitely working however, as a restart of pulseaudio seems to restore correct functionality about 90% of the time. i have no clue what does this. as far as i know i don't have anything installed that should be responsible. |
| 20:22.19 | Sicelo | reinstalled pulseaudio, but situation persists. |
| 20:22.49 | sixwheeledbeast | As time goes by it seems the phone application still works, compare that to all the other ageing packages in Maemo. |
| 20:23.02 | sixwheeledbeast | I use the phone more than anything else |
| 20:24.02 | bencoh | :D |
| 20:24.07 | bencoh | riiight |
| 20:24.19 | sixwheeledbeast | Probably followed by OMP, Terminal, Modrana and Modest |
| 20:24.37 | bencoh | xterm (the real one) and marble for me, but YMMV |
| 20:25.07 | KotCzarny | phone, oscp, terminal (ssh, mc) |
| 20:26.07 | Sicelo | XTerminal (ssh), Yappari, Pidgin, MicroB, Fennec, Ovi Maps, Dorian (epub), OMP/stock MP .. my list |
| 20:26.48 | Sicelo | well i don't use phone much because i hate making phone calls .. but people do call me, so i need to count that one too |
| 20:27.24 | Vajb | u can install callerx to block those calls Sicelo :) |
| 20:27.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: strange. do a amixer -c0 |
| 20:27.47 | Sicelo | haha. i don't need to block them .. they are 'valid' e.g. my parents |
| 20:27.56 | Vajb | jk |
| 20:28.39 | Sicelo | :) |
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| 20:29.20 | Vajb | i use n900 as a phone too, but also for emails, irc, yappari, games, shopping list, (facebook) |
| 20:29.26 | alexey | Vajb: Helsinki area |
| 20:29.40 | Vajb | +notes too |
| 20:29.41 | Sicelo | DocScrutinizer05: http://paste.debian.net/361554/ |
| 20:30.29 | Sicelo | Vajb: what games? |
| 20:30.54 | Vajb | alexey: im coming to nosturi at 16.1 to see some gig's, if you want you can give that n900 to me then :) |
| 20:31.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: lemme do a phonecall and paste my version of this list |
| 20:31.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | so you can do a diff |
| 20:31.45 | Vajb | Sicelo: lately i play some quiz on qquiz also 2048 and some puzzles on tha puzzle collection |
| 20:32.05 | alexey | Vajb: I guess Wizzup was the first one to claim it, but you'll be second in queue if something is changed |
| 20:32.19 | alexey | Vajb: [ot] what's in Nosturi then? |
| 20:32.35 | sixwheeledbeast | I use lots of Maemo Extras packages (I would struggle without my N900) but they are the main ones. Notice how we all have a terminal at the top of our list :) |
| 20:32.45 | Vajb | there will be aborted, kataklysm and septicflesh |
| 20:32.58 | Sicelo | sixwheeledbeast: maybe we're terminal. dead, haha |
| 20:33.18 | alexey | judging by the names -- way too loud :D |
| 20:33.44 | Vajb | well, my kind of dance music ;) |
| 20:35.17 | Vajb | but ok see how it goes with Wizzup and let me know. There is plenty of time till that :) |
| 20:35.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: http://paste.opensuse.org/30283075 |
| 20:39.19 | Sicelo | oh god! too much difference |
| 20:39.29 | Sicelo | DocScrutinizer05: you took that after, or during call? |
| 20:40.42 | Sicelo | DocScrutinizer05: http://paste.debian.net/361556/ |
| 20:43.51 | Sicelo | in any case .. it doesn't make much sense to me that it should work when i restart pulseaudio, and then stop later. i could monitor dbus, but this happens in its 'own' time :/ |
| 20:45.28 | Sicelo | tried to look at pulseaudio logging .. seems i might have syslog issues there .. but going to investigate further |
| 20:45.57 | *** join/#maemo mp_ (~mp@213-238-69-84.adsl.inetia.pl) |
| 20:49.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: first half during call, second half during speakerphone call |
| 20:50.58 | Sicelo | ah. i took mine in 'idle' |
| 20:51.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | in idle it's pretty much useless for diagnosing earpiece problems ;-) |
| 20:52.17 | Sicelo | i'll do it again when problem manifests itself haha. i've got your output saved on my Desktop |
| 20:52.33 | Sicelo | right now all is working fine again, so nothing much to see, i guess |
| 20:56.25 | stryngs | hmm |
| 20:56.34 | stryngs | Hope u gents dont use secure-is.nl |
| 20:57.16 | KotCzarny | hmm, can one route audio (music) output to earpiece? |
| 20:58.09 | Sicelo | i wouldn't want to do it .. not when the speakers are good as they are :) |
| 20:58.15 | KotCzarny | just for test |
| 20:58.48 | KotCzarny | otoh, its just pa routing problem not failing contacts etc? |
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| 21:08.31 | Sicelo | KotCzarny: shouldn't be contacts, i guess. otherwise restarting pulseaudio wouldn't have the effect it does |
| 21:15.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, I just realize that I had audio problems with stuttering etc recently that I've rarely ever seen before. I wonder if some "bugfix" on PA might not work as expected |
| 21:31.07 | kerio | meanwhile in iOS land https://twitter.com/mxcl/status/684844144213147649 |
| 21:31.30 | kerio | "It invokes AutoLayout to calculate height every time a cell scrolls on screen, which can be very expensive." |
| 21:35.42 | bencoh | :)) |
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| 21:52.59 | lobito | hey, chem|st. sorry to bother you. could it be that maemo.org is blocking tor exit nodes? |
| 22:04.44 | *** join/#maemo DocScrutinizer05 (~saturn@openmoko/engineers/joerg) |
| 22:04.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2016-01-03.log.html |
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| 22:07.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | for wiki|tracker, allow only registered users to edit. Add same "no login from RBL IPs" mechanism. Done |
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| 22:08.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | those who are using Tor don't want to edit anyway, since edits _always_ reveal the identity of the editor. If you wnat to do a edit that doesn't, then the edit is prolly not worth it |
| 22:08.42 | *** join/#maemo Pali (~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali) |
| 22:09.10 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: tor is not to be anonymous for all of your interactions |
| 22:09.29 | kerio | tor is to not reveal anything to your immediate neighborhood |
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| 22:21.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | I know... |
| 22:22.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | but I guess you and me are 2 out of 1000 who do |
| 22:22.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | heck, even CIA(?) used Tor and thought this way their email would be 'secure' |
| 22:23.29 | bencoh | :D |
| 22:23.43 | bencoh | poor guys |
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| 22:24.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | no matter what, it's pretty offensive to READ-block all NAT and NAT-like services' IPs to be found on a RBL from *.maemo.org |
| 22:25.24 | *** join/#maemo mp_ (~mp@213-238-69-84.adsl.inetia.pl) |
| 22:26.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | the second complaint from ininvolved innocent users that they're blocked from maemo that I receive in just 4 days |
| 22:26.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | uninvolved even |
| 22:27.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | and not blocked from registering or identifying to maemo, but blocked from mere *reading* |
| 22:28.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | Neo900 is about security. Tor is about security. Neo900 has a subforum on tmo. I have a hard time explaining to Neo900 customers that to access Neo900 subforum (or any other maemo-org page) they must not use Tor |
| 22:38.45 | fishbulb | how much money have you got so far for this neo900 |
| 22:40.32 | fishbulb | not asking in any underhanded bitchy way, other people's money/stuff never affects me |
| 22:41.19 | kerio | i'd guess a negative amount |
| 22:41.47 | fishbulb | pff, preorders |
| 22:42.10 | lobito | (19:28:58) DocScrutinizer05: Neo900 is about security. Tor is about security. Neo900 has a subforum on tmo. I have a hard time explaining to Neo900 customers that to access Neo900 subforum (or any other maemo-org page) they must not use Tor <<< has a point |
| 22:42.56 | fishbulb | if you claim victim status and altruism over this whole neo900 thing, I'd call shit. |
| 22:44.28 | fishbulb | it's crowdfunded |
| 22:44.41 | lobito | fishbulb: keep in mind part of the preorder money is stuck at paypal |
| 22:45.31 | fishbulb | time is always free with personal projects especially if other poeple are paying for stuff in advance |
| 22:45.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | fishbulb: what's your problem? |
| 22:45.47 | fishbulb | is paypal broken or something? |
| 22:46.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | you came here for trolling? |
| 22:47.02 | fishbulb | someone else said something about paypal but I just used it several times |
| 22:47.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-x |
| 22:48.00 | fishbulb | does open source mean open source with finances too? I'm just wondering how many poeple have chipped in |
| 22:48.26 | lobito | fishbulb: check out the announce mailing list for the project. there's the details on the paypal issue |
| 22:48.35 | fishbulb | I already said: it's their money (or yours, or whatever) not mine, so it doesn't affect me |
| 22:48.51 | fishbulb | I'm not signing up for a mailing list, can you just tell me please? |
| 22:48.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | so why you try pissing legs here? |
| 22:49.16 | fishbulb | I don't know what that means |
| 22:49.41 | lobito | fishbulb: i'll link you to the mailing list's archive, if that's ok |
| 22:49.49 | fishbulb | surely there's transparency with this, it's crowdfunded |
| 22:49.52 | lobito | fishbulb: i'm not sure if i can explain all the details myself |
| 22:50.36 | fishbulb | people have put money in because they want to see it happen, how much money has gone in? |
| 22:51.42 | kerio | can someone at least quiet this troll |
| 22:51.56 | fishbulb | I'm asking a question |
| 22:52.03 | *** mode/#maemo [+o kerio] by ChanServ |
| 22:52.11 | kerio | neat |
| 22:52.13 | fishbulb | I'm not interested in your interpretation, stop screaming "troll" because I'm asking something |
| 22:52.25 | *** mode/#maemo [+q fishbulb!*@*] by kerio |
| 22:52.29 | bencoh | kerio: quit it |
| 22:52.33 | bencoh | kerio: meh. |
| 22:52.41 | *** mode/#maemo [-o kerio] by ChanServ |
| 22:52.41 | lobito | fishbulb: http://neo900.org/news/paypal-trouble-delays-project |
| 22:52.45 | bencoh | just unmute im already |
| 22:52.54 | Sicelo | +1 |
| 22:53.00 | kerio | well, now i can't |
| 22:53.04 | *** mode/#maemo [+o kerio] by ChanServ |
| 22:53.13 | kerio | can you guys stop opping and deopping me |
| 22:53.20 | *** mode/#maemo [-q fishbulb!*@*] by kerio |
| 22:53.23 | *** mode/#maemo [-o kerio] by kerio |
| 22:53.44 | fishbulb | I'm not interested anymore. |
| 22:54.00 | bencoh | >_> |
| 22:54.21 | fishbulb | does any of this mean anything new for the n900? I'm still using mine as a phone |
| 22:54.38 | bencoh | any of what? neo900? |
| 22:54.56 | fishbulb | yeah unless there are other projects too |
| 22:55.59 | bencoh | well, some of the work on freeing/REing/rewriting/whatever parts of maemo benefits for both neo900 (when it sees the light) and maemo on n900 |
| 22:56.40 | bencoh | (upstreaming kernel drivers, RE-ing and fixing userland, that kind of stuff) |
| 22:57.08 | bencoh | apart from that .... it's another hw platform (quite close, but still) |
| 22:57.25 | fishbulb | so there'll be some benefits to the n900? |
| 22:57.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | and for sure another company |
| 22:57.30 | sixwheeledbeast | neo900 will influence the future of Maemo, IMO |
| 22:57.38 | lobito | fishbulb: i think this is what you're looking for http://lists.goldelico.com/pipermail/community/2015-September/001283.html |
| 22:58.04 | lobito | you should watch your attitude, tho :P most of us don't make any money from this |
| 22:58.27 | bencoh | fishbulb: it might be a good reason for people to keep contributing to maemo / the community as it means there is a "successor" (or a way to build from there) |
| 22:58.36 | bencoh | so in a way, yes |
| 22:58.40 | sixwheeledbeast | your n900 will not last forever and the only upgrade maybe the neo900 |
| 22:58.43 | bencoh | (apart from the software point of view) |
| 22:58.57 | fishbulb | I'm surprised it's lasted this long |
| 22:59.19 | fishbulb | I have a few, maybe I can sell them. it's really an antique |
| 22:59.20 | lobito | preview of the link: "About cost and business models for communityhardware" |
| 22:59.34 | fishbulb | yeah I don't really agree with that |
| 22:59.55 | sixwheeledbeast | there fairly well built in some aspects |
| 23:00.10 | kerio | cough cough musb port cough cough |
| 23:00.50 | fishbulb | actually I have one where the pads for the rx and something else came off the mobo with a soldering iron |
| 23:00.50 | sixwheeledbeast | yes, surface mount was not a good idea there |
| 23:00.53 | fishbulb | it can't be fixed |
| 23:00.59 | bencoh | "An exception may be the Fairphone" even they dont manage to build something open / of "quality" |
| 23:01.06 | fishbulb | surface mount was, the amount of solder wasn't |
| 23:01.32 | bencoh | (not exactly true since they weren't even aware of the qualcomm issues when they chose their hw design) |
| 23:01.36 | fishbulb | I doubt they ever expected them to be running 7 years later |
| 23:02.03 | fishbulb | look at the flight controller pixhawk |
| 23:02.05 | fishbulb | for quads |
| 23:02.09 | fishbulb | it's open hardware and open software |
| 23:02.16 | *** join/#maemo RedW (~redw@89-76-164-87.dynamic.chello.pl) |
| 23:02.28 | fishbulb | and any company that wants to use it pays a lot, if you buy the hardware off them you get massive support |
| 23:03.30 | fishbulb | they give all of it free, and it's the most competent flight or autonomous whatever computer for any rc or autonomous vehicle |
| 23:03.34 | lobito | (19:58:41) sixwheeledbeast: your n900 will not last forever <<< we've got nokia care center's repair manuals and the batteries and cameras from other nokia phones are compatible :P |
| 23:03.53 | bencoh | fishbulb: well, they probably didnt expect it, but service manual does say "This product is of superior design and craftsmanship and should be treated with care." ::-) |
| 23:04.07 | lobito | maybe not "forever", tho :P |
| 23:04.39 | lobito | *we've also got 3d-scans for mechanical parts |
| 23:04.58 | fishbulb | whatever plastic they used, it's good, I have one that's been dropped off a bike going fast, kicked across concrete, dropped and spun/rolled across concrete |
| 23:05.30 | fishbulb | if a modern android device could be put in there, it could run busybox and do relatively the same thing, while running MODERN apps |
| 23:05.39 | fishbulb | becaues honestly, the n900 never took off |
| 23:05.46 | fishbulb | nobody really made a lot of apps |
| 23:06.52 | lobito | whatever the opposite of planned obsolescence is, the n900 has it |
| 23:06.59 | lobito | planned revalorization, maybe |
| 23:07.20 | fishbulb | just "good construction" |
| 23:07.39 | fishbulb | nokia had no need to make a crap phone |
| 23:07.54 | fishbulb | the n9 was good too. maybe better. no keyboard |
| 23:08.06 | lobito | but with neo900 on the making :P i'd call it planned revalorization |
| 23:08.06 | fishbulb | no keyboard, Though |
| 23:08.26 | fishbulb | that' snothing to do with nokia, it's fitting a board into a product |
| 23:09.34 | fishbulb | if metal printing was at the hobby level a lot of things could be revamped |
| 23:09.55 | bencoh | hmm, dunnn |
| 23:10.06 | lobito | (20:05:47) fishbulb: nobody really made a lot of apps <<< but it benefits from being a debian derivative. you can have: mumble, pidgin, ssh, git, vnc viewer... |
| 23:10.14 | bencoh | dunno*. that wouldnt help you designing/routing/making your board |
| 23:10.36 | lobito | forgot the point of this conversation, tho |
| 23:11.10 | fishbulb | take a galaxy or something |
| 23:11.13 | *** join/#maemo dos1 (~dos1@unaffiliated/dos1) |
| 23:11.33 | kerio | samsung galaxy? |
| 23:11.36 | fishbulb | stretch out the n900 in one plane |
| 23:11.44 | fishbulb | something like that. something android and quadcore |
| 23:12.12 | fishbulb | put it into the slide case with keyboard, done, awesome |
| 23:14.31 | lobito | so your point is why doesn't the neo900 have a better processor? |
| 23:26.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://neo900.org/faq#cpu |
| 23:34.24 | bencoh | DocScrutinizer05: I think trying to port maemo to pyra (once it's out and ready) would be quite interesting, considering te design they chose :) |
| 23:34.46 | bencoh | (and yes, I know why you chose not to go in the same direction) |
| 23:35.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, and it's the natural next step after porting it to Neo900 :-) |
| 23:35.24 | bencoh | but I still think "we" should have tried to make maemo apps run on a dev board first |
| 23:35.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | compare for "STEP2" |
| 23:35.44 | bencoh | (since the main issue is with closed ones) |
| 23:36.04 | bencoh | yeah |
| 23:36.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's what proto_v2 is about |
| 23:36.18 | bencoh | proto_v2? |
| 23:36.27 | bencoh | I meant an omap5 devboard ;) |
| 23:36.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | verify all the peripheral subsystems |
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