IRC log for #maemo on 20151226

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04:19.26OksanaaBarcode apps on Maemo need more work on them. Lasagne segfaults on me (not sure what its purpose is), mbarcode is good but out-of-date (just take a look at its web-plugins: most of them do not work, one way or another)
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20:10.39*** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | "firmware" see ~tabletsdev ~combined ~emmc ~flasher sdk: ~sb | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet
20:11.11sixwheeledbeastPali: no only last, seen and tapped
20:13.52*** join/#maemo Vajb (~Vajb@85-76-22-140-nat.elisa-mobile.fi)
20:14.26sixwheeledbeastone device has a "packages.backup" file but not found an "available*" file
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20:26.55*** join/#maemo Oksanaa (~Wikiwide@Maemo/community/ex-council/Wikiwide)
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21:17.59DocScrutinizer05what the heck are you hackers inventing there again? you're incredible :-D
21:20.20DocScrutinizer05push news to HAM?
21:23.52OksanaaJust making sure that functionality does not become worse with time, and is not broken by infrastructure migration? ;-) Thanks a lot, by the way :-)
21:25.46DocScrutinizer05well, aiui we got a few orphaned repos which were once hosted by Nokia and are essential to maemo5 devices. Best way to fix the issue would have been to update the signature key but that's over now. So next best thing would be a patch to /etc/hosts
21:27.42DocScrutinizer05the tricky part is: such patch to etc/hosts would need to point to a IP that holds the repos, which is... questionable
21:29.14DocScrutinizer05we once had a rather stable organizational infra in place, but that got nuked by a few stubborn councilors
21:30.04DocScrutinizer05who didn't understand about the tricky politics immanent in such structure
21:31.24DocScrutinizer05you need to be sort of schizoid to implement such stuff, and it doesn't help when others blame you for being schizoid
21:33.02DocScrutinizer05there been a server called skeiron which had only approved material. Nobody knew who operated that server (I guess it was a guy in Singapore)
21:36.05DocScrutinizer05nevertheless eventually a shitstorm broke loose against me, based on the allegation that I know that guy (a made up and never proven assumption)
21:37.25DocScrutinizer05when the guy in Singapore heard about all that, he lost interest in running skeiron
21:38.04DocScrutinizer05it turned into a dangerous swamp for him
21:43.09*** join/#maemo jonwil (~jonwil@27-33-80-219.tpgi.com.au)
21:43.24DocScrutinizer05and even for me
21:49.08DocScrutinizer05whois skeiron.org still works. last traces
21:49.17DocScrutinizer05a pity
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21:56.33*** join/#maemo louisdk (~louisdk@static-5-103-130-65.seas-nve.net)
21:58.29jonwilwhats all this talk about repos and stuff?
22:00.02*** join/#maemo eijk (~eijk@x55b2d54a.dyn.telefonica.de)
22:00.51DocScrutinizer05jonwil: core repos gone south
22:01.00DocScrutinizer05nice URL http://www.archiveteam.org/index.php?title=Maemo
22:02.24jonwilyeah the nokia repos have been gone for a while (hence the fact that I am now using the maemo.muarf.org mirror :)
22:02.42jonwilI am also using a different repo mirror (probably ovi) from maemo-repos.com
22:05.40jonwilso what exactly is the discussion then? Something new about how to solve the core repo issue?
22:08.18sixwheeledbeastjonwil: HAM and /home/user/.hildon-application-manager/available-notifications file
22:10.15sixwheeledbeaststarts here? http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2015-12-26.log.html#t2015-12-26T00:20:50
22:10.16DocScrutinizer05..and my rant about muarf being a nice but alas unapproved mirror
22:11.28jonwilok, so HAM will download a file from a nokia server. Big deal, this doesn't help us (we dont own that server)
22:12.01*** join/#maemo louisdk (~louisdk@static-5-103-130-65.seas-nve.net)
22:12.38DocScrutinizer05but when council gives excommunication and bashing to those who try to deal with approving and supporting obviously not-so-legal mirrors of copyrighted stuff, then we'll have to live with the situation that mirrors are not approved these days, and never again will be
22:14.10DocScrutinizer05council and hildon foundation (or whatever is the name now) I have to say
22:15.49jonwilSeems like the people who supposedly run this community aren't (or weren't if it was different people at the time) running for the benefit of Maemo as a whole
22:21.01DocScrutinizer05this was the time of "we negotiate with Nokia. We must not tell any details. We don't want to talk with you as Nokia might not like this"
22:22.51DocScrutinizer05one guy even claiming he might get sued for crimes *I* do 3 years into the future when he gives me some money today for something completely unrelated
22:23.52OksanaaHmm, right now I am wondering if it is possible to negotiate with Nokia-Microsoft about DNS records...
22:24.01DocScrutinizer05forget it
22:24.16DocScrutinizer05we tried a dozen times
22:24.55DocScrutinizer05Nokia won't pass control over *.nokia.com domains to you, no matter what
22:25.36DocScrutinizer05when you're lucky, you eventually might own the *.maemo.org domains
22:26.41DocScrutinizer05ooh, you already own the maemo.org - congrats, finally
22:29.31DocScrutinizer05maybe you could check if HAM et al can work with it, and then get Nokia to change harmattan.nokia.com or whatever to a CNAME
22:33.12DocScrutinizer05or maemo.downloads.nokia.com or whatever it been
22:33.24DocScrutinizer05tabletteer.nokia.com
22:34.27DocScrutinizer05warfare could request such changes and with some luck Nokia will implement them via their DNS management after weeks or months
22:51.25bencohI highly doubt you'd ever get any *.nokia.com domain :)
22:52.44bencoh"maemo.org" is a different story - pretty much nobody (outside of our small tech communities) knows what it is or how it's related to nokia
22:52.55DocScrutinizer05no way we ever get *.nokia.com
22:53.17DocScrutinizer05Pali: freemangordon: please explain http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2015-12-26.log.html#t2015-12-26T20:29:19 - I don't grok it
22:53.30bencohas for "unapproved mirrors", I hope nobody really gives that any attention nowadays
22:54.01DocScrutinizer05bencoh: actually nobody but peeps in hildon foundation ever did
22:54.12bencohDocScrutinizer05: I gathered that :)
22:54.55PaliDocScrutinizer05: HAM checks http page configured in system if it is not changed. and if it is changed it show notify message in status bar "new update" with text and link from that page
22:55.20DocScrutinizer05Nokia is obliged by contracts not to publish those closed blob bits (like e.g. flash plugin, PVR lib etc), but they even encouraged users at time to create mirrors
22:55.21bencohjonwil: btw, ovi is on maemo.muarf.org as well, but password-protected (with the password used for nokia repos)
22:55.30*** join/#maemo RedW (~redw@89-76-164-87.dynamic.chello.pl)
22:55.34bencohDocScrutinizer05: :-)
22:55.37Paliand we could use it to inform users that CSSU exists
22:55.58DocScrutinizer05Pali: which URL this page is on?
22:56.16bencohthe tableteer one ?
22:56.19Palihttp://tableteer.nokia.com/application-notices/notice-RX-51-fremantle
22:56.35DocScrutinizer05Pali: alas that doesn't help since that's a Nokia URL
22:57.08DocScrutinizer05we *might* talk Nokia into changing content of that page
22:57.44Palilong time ago Quim Gill wrote us that Nokia is happy with redistributing closed Nokia (C) bits of Maemo sw
22:58.03DocScrutinizer05alas to me it seems http://tableteer.nokia.com is dead
22:58.19DocScrutinizer05(quim) ack
22:58.37Palisee dig, it resolve to 217.77.202.40
22:58.52DocScrutinizer05hmm, and?
22:58.59DocScrutinizer05still no response
22:59.05Paliis not it old ip range of maemo servers?
22:59.24bencohSATAMA-NET
22:59.33bencohmnt-by:         ELISA-MNT
22:59.38DocScrutinizer05http://wstaw.org/m/2015/12/26/plasma-desktopCS3616.png
23:00.04PaliDocScrutinizer05: I know, but nokia still has A record in DNS
23:00.14bencohPali: do you mean this page used to be hosted on maemo infra?
23:00.24Paliyes
23:00.27bencohhmm
23:00.29DocScrutinizer05umm, you could actually try convincing Nokia to point that URL to recent server IP
23:00.34bencohinteresting
23:00.35bencohyeah
23:00.47bencohs/url/dns/
23:00.52Palianyway downloads.maemo.nokia.com does not have A record anymore
23:01.00DocScrutinizer05yep, dns
23:01.30DocScrutinizer05we could ask nokia to create a new A record for that too
23:01.47Palior we can try to contact SATAMA-NET/ELISA-MNT :D
23:02.03DocScrutinizer05but that won't help since *we* are not allowed to hos a repo mirror
23:02.08bencohor mnt-by:         XENETIC
23:02.27bencohDocScrutinizer05: maemo could do some redirection :°
23:02.40DocScrutinizer05cyrcle closed
23:02.52PaliDocScrutinizer05: we are not allowd to host our version of notice-RX-51-fremantle file??
23:02.58DocScrutinizer05[2015-12-26 Sat 22:27:42] <DocScrutinizer05> the tricky part is: such patch to etc/hosts would need to point to a IP that holds the repos, which is... questionable
23:03.13bencoh:)
23:03.50Palinotice-RX-51-fremantle is announcement for *all* n900 devices with internet connection to show something
23:03.59DocScrutinizer05Pali: we are allowed to do that. We are not allowed to host the repos and stuff usually found under downloads.maemo.nokia.com
23:06.10*** join/#maemo sunshavi (~user@190.234.106.189)
23:07.19DocScrutinizer05anyway it seems to me the box behind http://tableteer.nokia.com is dead. A very usual thing with nokia boxes that are not maintained anymore but still akamai receives payment for the iron
23:07.56DocScrutinizer05I've seen such zombie boxes linger on for years at nokia
23:08.05bencohhmm I dont think akamai is still hosting (or receiving anything) for d.m.n.c
23:08.25DocScrutinizer05of course not since that's a dead domain
23:08.55bencohno I mean, even when hardcoding the akamai ip in /etc/hosts, they dont host anything there anymore
23:09.02DocScrutinizer05though, you never know. I've even see zombie boxes under IPs where the DNS record vanished long ago
23:09.09bencohso nokia notified akamai
23:09.19DocScrutinizer05aah ok
23:09.37DocScrutinizer05http://tableteer.nokia.com otoh obviously still exists
23:09.42bencoh(I tried that when the maemo.n.c NS vanished)
23:10.38DocScrutinizer05could run nmap against that box, to see if it's showing any sign of life still
23:10.41Palido you have A records of downloads.maemo.nokia.com?
23:10.47PaliA records when worked?
23:11.45DocScrutinizer05me not
23:14.48bencohI used to
23:15.24keriomeh
23:15.38keriomaemo is like super dead anyway :c
23:18.25jonwilSo Nokia unofficially has no problem with people hosting repo mirror but officially they cant endorse HiFo/maemo.org/etc hosting anything...
23:18.57xeskerio: if it's dead, why are loosing your time here? :)
23:19.07kerionecrophilia
23:19.43jonwilI for one don't consider Maemo dead...
23:19.55keriothe rotting, maggot-infested carcass of maemo 5 is still better than android
23:19.56DocScrutinizer05jonwil: (endorse) exactly
23:21.48Paliok, so we can power-up unofficial mirror for downloads.maemo.nokia.com?
23:21.54Paliwithout problems?
23:22.38xeskerio: a walking dead is always better than a spy-worm's slave
23:22.50kerioindeed
23:25.32jonwilUltimately I suspect its all academic since I seriously doubt MS/Nokia would ever point any *.nokia.com domain to any machine they don't control.
23:26.04DocScrutinizer05Pali: yes, aiui
23:26.41DocScrutinizer05jonwil: ack
23:26.52Palido you have any contact to nokia?
23:27.09DocScrutinizer05nope, afaik nobody has anymore
23:27.36DocScrutinizer05there is no more nokia, as far as maemo is concerned
23:28.21DocScrutinizer05if anybody still has any contacts then that's HiFo
23:29.02DocScrutinizer05but I seem to remember their last contact waved a farewell long ago
23:33.24Palihttp://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/mobile/support/product/n900/softwareupdate/
23:34.01jonwilI dont see any reason why another mirror of downloads.maemo.nokia.com would somehow be any more useful than of maemo.muarf.org or maemo-repos.com
23:34.30DocScrutinizer05Pali: ROFL
23:35.08jonwilI suspect that page is simply something from an old Nokia webpage grabbed up and reformatted onto a MS websie
23:35.37DocScrutinizer05jonwil: it only would be more useful if it was as smartly crafted into a sekrit organizational network as skeiron was
23:35.52Palihttp://www.microsoft.com/en-gb/mobile/support/product/n900/faq/?action=singleTopic&topic=FA121619&category=warrantyandrepair
23:35.56Pali:D:D
23:36.22keriowat
23:36.33Palidists/mistral
23:36.51PaliCould not resolve 'repositor.maemo.org'.
23:36.52Pali:D
23:37.15DocScrutinizer05"was this helpful?" [X]NO
23:38.15jonwilwhat made skeiron better than other mirrors?
23:38.40bencohthey existed at that time :)
23:39.06bencoherr, they did not existed at that time
23:41.17DocScrutinizer05jonwil: it was embedded into a sekrit organizational framework that ensured that the content on skeiron was authentic and untampered
23:41.51DocScrutinizer05it also was maximum comprehensive
23:42.10DocScrutinizer05with almost 2TB of data
23:42.59DocScrutinizer05and though council and HiFo never knew, they actually had some indirect control over it
23:43.40DocScrutinizer05they used that indirect control to nuke it
23:44.41DocScrutinizer05now we got mirrors we know zilch about
23:46.05Paliwhat happened with skeiron mirror?
23:46.24jonwilAFAIK the mirrors we have are still signed (just with an expired key) so we should be able to verify that the signature is intact and the files on those mirrors are genuine
23:46.32DocScrutinizer05it got discontinued when peeps at HiFo started bitching and acting destructive
23:48.36DocScrutinizer05to make things more bizarre: same peeps who formerly helped in inventing and supporting the whole thing
23:51.09DocScrutinizer05jonwil: sure, that's true for the Nokia repos
23:52.09DocScrutinizer05however that doesn't prevent any fraudulent stuff getting done to them tomorrow
23:52.44jonwilAre there any other repos other than the Nokia repos (downloads.maemo.nokia.com) and the repos that exist on *.maemo.org?
23:52.50DocScrutinizer05also note that we as well have no control whatsoever over the domain
23:53.56DocScrutinizer05so if muarf or whatever mirror vanishes tomorrow, we're at square zero again
23:54.01*** join/#maemo louisdk (~louisdk@static-5-103-130-65.seas-nve.net)
23:54.58DocScrutinizer05well, we can't do much about it. So it's futile to discuss it
23:59.33DocScrutinizer05idly wonders if a CNAME for the downloads.maemo.nokia.com domain would work with ham/apt

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