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| 00:57.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | calib and firmware are two independent things |
| 00:57.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | and iirc the calib tools are even available on same site as the firmware |
| 00:57.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | what sucks is closed blob firmware, but that's life |
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| 01:56.13 | jonwil | Its a pitty we dont have an Atheros chip in there to play with |
| 01:56.33 | jonwil | if https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pO7Y_241cyo is to be believed, they are extremely well documented and open |
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| 02:17.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | jonwil: have you checked size and power rating? And interface |
| 02:18.10 | jonwil | yeah true :) |
| 02:19.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | Neo900 / Openphoenux searched for years and in the end it's WiLink each single time |
| 02:21.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | there might be smaller chips, also maybe cheaper chips. But invariably it's about open documentation and source-ability |
| 02:21.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | so in the end WiLink 5/6/7/8 nine e1even thirwelve |
| 02:24.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | many of those extremely open and versatile chips are actually "stack runs on system CPU", something you really don't want for a battery powered embedded system |
| 02:30.08 | jonwil | true |
| 02:30.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | compare to ancient cheap printers, where the windows CPU did each phase of the stepper motors and shaped each pulse of each single needle |
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| 02:31.28 | jonwil | I know various Snapdragon chips contain Atheros bits in there, I wonder if Atheros is as open with the WiFi parts of those as they are with their standalone WiFi chips... |
| 02:32.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | when I hear snapdrogon I turn and leave |
| 02:32.51 | jonwil | whats wrong with Snapdragon? |
| 02:33.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't think i've seen a Snapdragon SoC that would work without *massive* blobs for bootloader or whatever |
| 02:33.06 | jonwil | oh ouch |
| 02:33.27 | jonwil | I wonder why Qualcomm would want to be so closed about that stuff |
| 02:35.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | isn't qualcom a synonym for "closed blobs"? |
| 02:36.58 | jonwil | It wouldn't surprise me if a number of the vendors who use Snapdragon SoCs LIKE the fact that everything is closed and you have to go through the vendor to get any updates to drivers etc |
| 02:37.21 | jonwil | I know lots of Android vendors would rather not share anything because then people can run newer versions of Android on older devices |
| 02:37.33 | jonwil | Or even just custom versions of Android that dont have all the usual OEM/carrier bloatware |
| 02:37.53 | jonwil | In any case Neo900 has to use OMAP3 chips to be compatible with N900 |
| 02:38.08 | jonwil | and we have to use whatever limited documentation on the OMAP stuff we can find |
| 02:38.23 | jonwil | plus whatever binary GPU blobs we can get |
| 02:40.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((wouldn't surprise)) yep, most do |
| 02:41.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | docs on OMAP are pretty comprehensive |
| 02:41.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | and nicely public |
| 02:42.21 | jonwil | so other than the GPU are there any other things in the particular OMAP chip we are using that are undocumented but where having documentation would be of potential benefit to Neo900? |
| 02:42.41 | jonwil | or is everything else worth knowing documented in the OMAP tech docs? |
| 02:44.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | no |
| 02:44.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 02:44.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | :) |
| 02:45.17 | jonwil | Do we have all the stuff worth having in regards to the DSP parts? |
| 02:45.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | for the GP devices afaik every bit of info is publicly available (well, except exact bytecode of ROMBOOT) |
| 02:46.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, I think DSP is a tad thin but docs should be available, maybe from gray market / darknet |
| 02:47.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | then OTOH this series of TI DSPs is legendary and age old, and I guess they are all somewhat similar. But I have to admit I never looked into them |
| 02:48.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | would be surprised if there wasn't a well documented assembler for those DSP cores |
| 02:49.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | TMS320 series |
| 02:49.52 | jonwil | yeah true |
| 02:50.19 | jonwil | sounds like the PowerVR core is the only part of the OMAP chip that is undocumented then |
| 02:50.31 | jonwil | and even if it was documented we wouldn't want to write our own GPU driver anyway |
| 02:50.37 | jonwil | we would still want to use something that exists |
| 02:51.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Texas_Instruments_TMS320C6400 |
| 02:52.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.ti.com/lit/an/spra396/spra396.pdf |
| 02:55.24 | jonwil | The biggest missing piece of the puzzle for Neo900 has nothing to do with the OMAP anyway, its the blobs we need for the audio :) |
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| 02:58.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think we could do without, worst case |
| 02:59.43 | jonwil | The main problem there is finding someone with enough knowledge of ARM reverse engineering to finish the job of reverse engineering the blobs (that or the source code for the blobs falling out of the sky somehow :) |
| 03:00.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | unlike BB5 our modem has a simple plain standard PCM/I2S audio interface, exactly like the codec/mixer audiochip in N900 already does. And our modem already has all the audio enhancement embedded that is done in closed PA plugins on N900 |
| 03:01.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | if everything else fails we could attach the modem audio (and control) over a RTP (and SIP) loopback as a virtual SIP account |
| 03:03.13 | jonwil | freemangordon: ping |
| 03:06.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | basically asterisk is all that's needed for such "local loopback" |
| 03:07.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | and iirc asterisk is already available for maemo, and working |
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| 03:09.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | I wouldn't even feel surprised if asterisk already offers a USB modem connection plugin for circuit switched calls |
| 03:10.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | and if it doesn't, we patch a AVM ISDN card driver into shape |
| 03:15.51 | jonwil | btw did we end up finding all the necessary parts to make the keyboard work (i.e. dome sheet)? |
| 03:33.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | we have sources, but no physical domesheets yet. We have alternatives which would involve a lot of manual work to place the 39 switches, and it lacks kbd backlight. It's a worst case fallback |
| 03:33.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | building the mere domesheet is basically a nobrainer. The lightspreader part is tricky |
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| 04:10.43 | jonwil | isn't the lights preader part of the dome sheet on a N900? |
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| 05:30.59 | Oksana | The domesheet comes together with motherboard, it's not something that can be sourced with mechanical parts |
| 05:31.34 | Oksana | And yes, the lightspreader part of domesheet-being-built-for-Neo900-motherboards turns out to be tricky? |
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| 08:52.21 | zGrr | moin :) |
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| 09:22.32 | Sicelo009N | so someone is selling a Ti 81 calculator for USD17.50, and all of us 'geeks' are looking at it |
| 09:24.07 | Sicelo009N | then, i whip up my N900 & launch ATI85 ;) |
| 09:24.11 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 09:24.36 | KotCzarny | and you can has n900 with broken cellular for that amount |
| 09:25.19 | jonwil | The only reason the Texas Instruments calculators continue to exist (and continue to cost what they do new) is because TI have convinced school authorities all over the world to declare TI calculators the "approved" calculators for exams and stuff |
| 09:26.06 | KotCzarny | they are right in a way there are smart devices that are similar size but with enormous abilities |
| 09:27.01 | KotCzarny | that can connect to the site that will solve just any problem |
| 09:29.06 | jonwil | merlin1991: ping |
| 09:29.10 | jonwil | freemangordon: ping |
| 09:37.51 | Sicelo009N | tbh i've never really used ATI85 in the 4 years i've had it installed. now feel like getting the manual for Ti calculators |
| 09:38.18 | kerio | jonwil: isn't it a massive antitrust violation, anyway? |
| 09:39.33 | jonwil | There are other companies making graphics calculators and the school is free to choose those if they want (Casio makes them for one thing, not sure if the HP ones still exist or not) |
| 09:49.18 | bencoh | iirc they do |
| 09:49.49 | bencoh | and Casio calculators are "approved" by schools as well (at least in Europe) |
| 09:50.08 | bencoh | but I honestly think they're far behind the TI ones |
| 09:50.30 | KotCzarny | in my times we had pen and paper |
| 09:50.35 | bencoh | (or used to be... that was 10y ago :) |
| 09:50.37 | KotCzarny | to solve math problems |
| 09:50.39 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 09:51.03 | bencoh | KotCzarny: actually I've hardly used a calculator to solve a maths problem |
| 09:53.20 | kerio | why do you even use calculators in school anyway |
| 09:53.32 | KotCzarny | because lazy |
| 09:53.42 | kerio | yeah but... graphing ones? |
| 09:53.52 | KotCzarny | same |
| 09:53.55 | jonwil | I use the calculator app on my N900 to do calculations all the time |
| 09:54.42 | jonwil | and I use the Windows calculator a LOT for doing stuff with hex numbers |
| 09:57.05 | KotCzarny | use use bash and printf for hex fun |
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| 18:08.28 | t4nk226 | i have a problem connecting with talk.maemo.org, message says that my ip is on antispam blacklist. the thing is i don't remember any registration or post written by me |
| 18:13.12 | KotCzarny | might be your ip belong to some more people (now or in the past) that made it to the internet bad ip lists |
| 18:15.30 | t4nk226 | Kocie, mam ip z UPC, oni tak czÄsto zmieniajÄ
ip, że mam je od jakichŠ2 lat |
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| 18:20.21 | KotCzarny | t4nk226: czyli dynamiczna ipka, masz pecha ze poprzedni 'wlasciciel' cos nabroil |
| 18:20.45 | KotCzarny | chyba ze wchodziles na tmo juz z ta ipka, wtedy moze wirusa jakiegos masz |
| 18:23.19 | t4nk226 | nie byÅo możliwoÅci, żeby ktoÅ inny miaÅ to ip, bo mam je od 2 lat non stop i nie zanosi siÄ na zmianÄ (nawet na infolinii mówiÄ
, że pula jest wyczerpana), na talk.maemo wchodzilem jakis czas temu i problemow nie bylo, wirusow tez nie ma |
| 18:23.48 | KotCzarny | jeszcze opcja ze cala klasa ipek trafila na listy |
| 18:23.50 | t4nk226 | chyba ze to przez losowego useragenta przegladarki |
| 18:24.58 | KotCzarny | http://www.stopforumspam.com/ipcheck/89.76.153.60 |
| 18:25.01 | KotCzarny | pierwszy link z googla |
| 18:25.11 | KotCzarny | jednak trafiles na liste rblowa |
| 18:25.25 | KotCzarny | albo masz wirusa albo dziurawe proxy masz |
| 18:26.06 | t4nk226 | swietnie ... |
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| 18:26.49 | KotCzarny | no ja bym na twoim miejscu sprawdzil antyvirem ew. jak masz tam jakis serwer to czy wlamu nie miales |
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| 18:27.21 | t4nk226 | sprawdze, raczej nie jest fajnie miec poblokowanego za darmo neta |
| 18:29.28 | KotCzarny | ew. opcja ze ktos do ciebie z laptopem przyszedl wpial sie i tak trafiles |
| 18:29.44 | KotCzarny | przedwczoraj miales gosci? |
| 18:30.43 | t4nk226 | nie, wlasnie prowadze sledztwo, w niedziele udostepnialem na zewnatrz tylko wordpressa przez jakies pol godziny, pozniej juz nic |
| 18:31.01 | t4nk226 | odpalilem jednego antywira, przeleci 2 dyski i pewnie nic nie znajdzie |
| 18:31.12 | KotCzarny | no to juz masz punkt zaczepienia |
| 18:31.46 | t4nk226 | zgloszenia sa z 16.11 a wp byl online 15.11 kolo 22.30 |
| 18:32.20 | KotCzarny | mhm, tak czy owak posprawdzaj, bo to raczej samo z siebie sie nie zrobilo |
| 18:33.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | t4nk226: sorry I can't follow. Please use english language |
| 18:33.43 | t4nk226 | Doc: i have a problem connecting with talk.maemo.org, message says that my ip is on antispam blacklist. the thing is i don't remember any registration or post written by me |
| 18:33.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | I've seen that post |
| 18:34.26 | t4nk226 | stopforumspam.com sent by KotCzarny says that my ip was reported |
| 18:35.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | then try changing your IP maybe |
| 18:35.41 | t4nk226 | thinking about someone got into my wifi (hard password to break, so not so easy), maybe virus but it won't happen by itself |
| 18:35.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | though odds are the complete provider subnet is blacklisted |
| 18:36.32 | t4nk226 | ISP is not providing anything like that, the pool is so tight that even having dynamic ip got me stuck with this ip for about 2 years |
| 18:36.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | t4nk226: no, you got dynamic IP and when you do a reset to your DSL connection, odds are your IP will change |
| 18:36.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh |
| 18:37.14 | KotCzarny | t4nk226: changing ip is not the solution, because clearly no one else used it, and you got in the rbl, so it might happen again |
| 18:37.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, then contact chem|st |
| 18:37.37 | t4nk226 | well, unfortunately not, the modem+router machine i have is shitty, i had a battle with it some time ago and nothing has changed |
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| 18:40.17 | t4nk226 | how long the ip stays in stopforumspam database ? |
| 18:40.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | contact chem|st, ask him for assisantce to register to tmo |
| 18:40.36 | KotCzarny | you might want to email that db admins |
| 18:40.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | assistance even |
| 18:41.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | alternatively warfare |
| 18:41.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | both are in here |
| 18:42.59 | t4nk226 | chem|st ? sorry, not familiar with thos |
| 18:43.01 | t4nk226 | this* |
| 18:43.10 | KotCzarny | do a /whois |
| 18:43.15 | KotCzarny | its a nick |
| 18:44.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's an problem of your unfamiliarity with IRC ;-) Both are users in this channel, just like you |
| 18:46.31 | chem|st | t4nk226: please send a mail to techstaff@m.o asking for your ip being removed from the blocklist (include the ip), please. |
| 18:47.01 | chem|st | mail as @maemo.org if that wasn't clear |
| 18:47.42 | t4nk226 | ok, thanks |
| 18:47.49 | sixwheeledbeast | ohh there's a factoid for that... |
| 18:48.00 | sixwheeledbeast | ~unbanip |
| 18:48.00 | infobot | hmm... unbanip is please contact techstaff <at> maemo <dot> org with your request |
| 18:48.09 | chem|st | sixwheeledbeast: lol |
| 18:48.15 | sixwheeledbeast | :) |
| 18:48.30 | sixwheeledbeast | it's easier |
| 18:48.34 | KotCzarny | swb: ah, thats' how its named, i was thinking something with the staff in the name ;) |
| 18:48.53 | chem|st | ~techstaff |
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| 19:12.01 | t4nk226 | I just wrote two mails, one for techstaff and one for stopforumspam, hope it'll help |
| 19:44.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~#maemo techstaff is techstaff@maemo.org - the folks that keep your maemo infra running. Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/ |
| 19:44.46 | infobot | DocScrutinizer05: okay |
| 19:45.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~unbanip is also see ~techstaff |
| 19:45.41 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 19:45.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~unbanip |
| 19:45.54 | infobot | i heard unbanip is please contact techstaff <at> maemo <dot> org with your request |
| 19:46.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | ugh |
| 19:46.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~factinfo unbanip |
| 19:46.12 | infobot | unbanip -- created by DocScrutinizer05 <~saturn@openmoko/engineers/joerg> 31s ago. |
| 19:46.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~forget unbanip |
| 19:46.22 | infobot | i forgot unbanip, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 19:46.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~literal unbanip |
| 19:46.28 | infobot | "#maemo unbanip" is "please contact techstaff <at> maemo <dot> org with your request" |
| 19:46.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~#maemo unbanip is also see ~techstaff |
| 19:46.39 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer05 |
| 19:46.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~unbanip |
| 19:46.45 | infobot | well, unbanip is please contact techstaff <at> maemo <dot> org with your request, or see ~techstaff |
| 19:51.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | infobot: no, #maemo techstaff is techstaff(AT)maemo.org - the folks that keep your maemo infra running. Devotion to Duty http://xkcd.com/705/ |
| 19:51.40 | infobot | okay, DocScrutinizer05 |
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| 19:55.11 | bencoh | (when you already know which xkcd it is before clicking ... bleh :) |
| 20:04.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | well... actually techstaff did such an awesome job the the mere technical infra runs almost unattended since years now. Of course this doesn't apply to highly problematic exposed services like vBulletin aka tmo, which I'm sure gives its administrators a constatnt stream of 'fun' |
| 20:05.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | uptime of blades aka xen hosts is in the 600 days |
| 20:06.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | err >> 21:06:01 up 867 days, 19:28, 0 users, load average: 4.40, 4.35, 3.77 << |
| 20:09.19 | *** join/#maemo jonwil (~jonwil@27-33-80-219.tpgi.com.au) |
| 20:13.52 | jonwil | freemangordon: ping |
| 20:18.45 | jonwil | hi |
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| 20:28.48 | bencoh | jonwil: about your post on TMO... why do you need to wrap it if you want to keep them "as is" ? |
| 20:28.55 | bencoh | (pulseaudio) |
| 20:29.09 | jonwil | No, I meant we use specific functions from the blobs |
| 20:29.14 | jonwil | and clone or rewrite others |
| 20:29.30 | jonwil | i.e. we rewrite the stuff for cmtspeech |
| 20:29.35 | jonwil | but we keep e.g. fir_iq stuff |
| 20:29.46 | jonwil | or other stuff with all that math |
| 20:30.55 | jonwil | do you follow? |
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| 20:34.06 | bencoh | not sure |
| 20:34.15 | bencoh | why would we rewrite only half of it? |
| 20:34.28 | bencoh | (I mean, why bother if we cant/dont remove the whole blob?) |
| 20:35.08 | jonwil | for Neo900 |
| 20:35.16 | jonwil | because we need to replace the cellular bits |
| 20:35.43 | jonwil | but we dont need to replace some of the other stuff since Neo900 has the same audio system as N900 other than the cellular stuff |
| 20:36.00 | jonwil | also we could use this for testing, i.e. clone some parts and use others, see that it works then clone more |
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| 20:38.18 | bencoh | are we still talking about the nokia voice pa module? |
| 20:38.34 | jonwil | yes we are |
| 20:38.35 | bencoh | isn't this one quite "far" from the cmtspeech stuff in the pipeline? |
| 20:38.40 | jonwil | no, its not |
| 20:38.43 | bencoh | ah |
| 20:38.48 | bencoh | I see |
| 20:39.03 | jonwil | module-nokia-voice on N900 statically links to a library called libcmtspeech |
| 20:39.06 | bencoh | that's a pity |
| 20:39.10 | jonwil | which is what talks to the cellular radio |
| 20:39.14 | jonwil | yes it is a pitty |
| 20:39.18 | bencoh | now I get your point |
| 20:39.19 | jonwil | but we have to do what we need to |
| 20:39.36 | bencoh | does that mean SIP stuff doesn't go through nokia-voice? |
| 20:39.47 | bencoh | or do they have another entrypoint for SIP/RTP? |
| 20:40.02 | bencoh | s#SIP/RTP#telepathy calls# |
| 20:41.01 | jonwil | there is a different entrypoint (pulseaudio sink) |
| 20:42.53 | jonwil | For a cellular call, the cellular services daemon sends a signal (com.nokia.csd.Call.Instance.AudioConnect) to tell module-nokia-voice (and libcmtspeech) to start doing audio |
| 20:43.33 | jonwil | then libcmtspeech takes audio from the cellular modem and feeds it through various algorithms and out to other parts of PA and then the speakers |
| 20:43.39 | jonwil | and vice versa for microphone audio |
| 20:46.15 | jonwil | module-nokia-voice creates 2 sinks (raw sink and voip sink) and 3 sink inputs (aep sink input, hw sink input and cs call sink input) |
| 20:46.49 | jonwil | for sources there is raw source and voip source plus a hw source output |
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| 20:47.31 | bencoh | looks like a monolithic monster |
| 20:47.49 | jonwil | yes its a beast |
| 20:55.56 | jonwil | now do you see the wisdom of my idea? :) |
| 20:57.07 | bencoh | kinda, yeah :) |
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| 21:00.04 | *** join/#maemo HRH_H_Crab (~crab@kowloontong.dim-sum.org) |
| 21:05.23 | ceene | i was wondering... hasn't anyone thought of implementing a smartphone based on the zynq7000 soc from xilinx? even the gsm/3g/4g interface could be open source, implemented on the fpga part of he zynq |
| 21:06.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | wait! one PA plugin (module-nokia-voice) handles both csd and RTP audio? this sounds terribly wrong particularly for RTP which should get done by some FOSS module - there are quite a few, libccrtp comes to mind |
| 21:06.39 | ceene | if i'm not mistaken osmocom software and docs would greatly help with this, as they have implemented the bts, so the terminal itself should be probably easier and possibly a subset of that |
| 21:07.02 | jonwil | Telepathy or some other part of the system feeds VoIP audio into module-nokia-voice which does some algos on it (including xprot for speaker protection) and feeds it down the chain into the rest of PA |
| 21:07.05 | Humpelstilzchen | ceene: zynq is pretty big |
| 21:07.43 | ceene | and pretty cool :P |
| 21:08.33 | jonwil | in any case once I get hold of freemangordon, I plan to ask for commit access to https://notabug.org/freemangordon/pulseaudio-nokia/ and see what I can figure out and add to that repo :) |
| 21:08.36 | ceene | two arms, a big integrated fpga in which to implement almost all hardware |
| 21:08.37 | Humpelstilzchen | yes, but implementing gsm etc on vhdl? Sounds like a full time job more multiple devs, if you can get this even certified |
| 21:08.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | ceene: a) osmocom bts stack is mostly unrelated to the MT radio stack, it's working in quite a different way than a phone b) no matter how you implement the hardware and th radio stack, it's illegal to use it when user can replace or modify it |
| 21:09.19 | ceene | i know for a fact that xilinx has demonstrated an LTE client |
| 21:09.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | so? |
| 21:10.05 | ceene | implemented on just two chips, the zynq and one thing from TI, if i recall correctly, a dual transceiver |
| 21:10.17 | ceene | well, it can be done technically :) |
| 21:10.37 | Humpelstilzchen | ceene: uuh nice, probably one of the more expensive IPs I guess |
| 21:10.53 | ceene | i don't know if they sell it, to be honest |
| 21:11.12 | ceene | but if they have implemented it, i guess you can buy it |
| 21:11.49 | ceene | there are simpler cores for gsm that i think are included in basic licensing schemes |
| 21:12.13 | ceene | 2g is probably feasible |
| 21:13.41 | Humpelstilzchen | ceene: I see kintex IPs (thats the big ones) |
| 21:13.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | also I wonder how much of practrical use such a proof of concept implementation would have. I mean, I worked with modem manufacturers and I can tell for sure the radio stack is a system way more complex and larger than for example a bare bones linux, and it's in the 3 digit man years what companies like ST-Ericsson invest into development of such stack, not included the effort to get everything tested in field and then approved by 12 |
| 21:13.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | dozen international authorieties like FCC |
| 21:15.50 | ceene | one man can dream... |
| 21:15.50 | Humpelstilzchen | so uuh here is a zynq based https://www.mathworks.com/examples/lte-system/12592-lte-transmitter-using-zynq-based-software-defined-radio-sdr |
| 21:16.10 | bencoh | you'd still need to go from vhdl/fpga to asic |
| 21:16.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | no matter what, you for sure can publish the radio stack source even under GPL, but as a manufacturer you must assure that only FCC-cerified sw stacks get used on your hardware. And FCC won't certify any firmware that doesn't enforce this limitation |
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| 21:16.25 | bencoh | because you dont want to keep a fpga running on some pocket embedded system |
| 21:16.44 | bencoh | I can haz moar battery plz? |
| 21:17.37 | ceene | DocScrutinizer05: fcc is an US only thing, isn't it? |
| 21:18.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | bencoh: yep, that's just a more real-life aspect that usually excludes FPGA from the list of stuff you want in a battery powered embedded system |
| 21:18.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | ceene: please take FCC for a wildcard for any authority ruling radio band usage in your country |
| 21:19.02 | ceene | i don't know if power consumption would be worse than our n900 though... |
| 21:19.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | huh? |
| 21:19.16 | bencoh | n900 isnt that power hungry |
| 21:19.24 | bencoh | especially when idling |
| 21:19.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | the modem has a standby energy consumption of only 12mW |
| 21:19.45 | ceene | in my experience the screen is the worst offender |
| 21:20.05 | bencoh | s/screen/backlight/ |
| 21:20.17 | ceene | so maybe the communication subsystem in the end is not the thing that requires the most optimization |
| 21:20.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, the backlight is, plus data transfer over cellular, plus WLAN when in scanning mode |
| 21:20.43 | Humpelstilzchen | add gps to the list |
| 21:20.49 | ceene | whatever, screen needs baklight, so it's the same for me |
| 21:20.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | plus CPU when you run a really poorly written app that keeps the CPU busy |
| 21:21.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | Humpelstilzchen: yes, GPS can eat some power. Camera as well |
| 21:22.07 | ceene | pareto says 80% of my power goes out to the screen, even if it's only lighted on for just 20% of the timwe |
| 21:22.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | ceene: backlight can get dimmed. Just one tick down from brightness 5 to 4 already makes backlight consume only 20-30% |
| 21:22.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | pareto? |
| 21:23.05 | bencoh | "pareto effect" |
| 21:23.12 | bencoh | 80/20 |
| 21:23.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | did somebod<y finally pick up on my idea to write a *system* monitor |
| 21:23.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | ? |
| 21:23.50 | bencoh | I dont think so |
| 21:25.27 | ceene | i still think a zynq smartphone would be pretty cool |
| 21:26.34 | bencoh | with a car lead battery, definitely :° |
| 21:27.13 | ceene | lol |
| 21:27.23 | ceene | it wouldn't be so bad |
| 21:35.44 | *** join/#maemo infobot (ibot@170-72-44-209.vivintwireless.net) |
| 21:35.44 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | "firmware" see ~tabletsdev ~combined ~emmc ~flasher sdk: ~sb | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |
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| 21:44.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~power |
| 21:44.11 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, power is http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_Power_Consumption |
| 21:44.34 | Sicelo | idea of system monitor ... meaning what in N900 context? |
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| 21:45.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | check all (known) subsystems for activity, estimate the power consumption that comes from this for each of them, compare to measured power consumption as seen by BQ27200 |
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| 21:57.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | sth like >> total measured energy consumption: 1980mW (520mA@3.81V) \n estimation for cellular: 1100mW, based on 'data: 41,4kBytes/sec RX, 528Bytes/s TX, in 9 packets/s', 'signal: -74dB', 'Radio Access Technology: UMTS', 'no call active' \n Screen backlight: 0mW, based on 'screen blaked, backlight off', 'actual brightness: 0%', 'configured brightness: 80%, ALS dynamic' \n Camera: 0mW based on 'not active' \n estimation for WLAN: 30mW |
| 21:57.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | based on: 'idle', 'data: 0Bytes/s', 'beacons: 20/s', 'PSM: high' \n ... |
| 22:00.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | and so on, for CPU, PowerVR, DSP, Audio, Vibrator, USB, BT, younameit |
| 22:02.30 | Sicelo | are any DSP/PowerVR stats availalbe in /sys maybe or some other location? |
| 22:02.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | have a set of thresholds for alarms for each subsystem, like "when CPU eats >1000mW for >5 seconds", and also have an alarm that triggers on measured consumption massively non-compliant with what the summed up total of all subsystems would suggest |
| 22:02.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | Sicelo: see zzztop |
| 22:04.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don't know how much is actually exposed anywhere in /sys or /proc or elsewhere |
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| 22:07.52 | Sicelo | i'll study the script |
| 22:07.58 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually my idea for system monitor is of boader scope than only power consumption, though that's for sure the major focus and largest chunk of info it collects and supervises and displays |
| 22:08.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | broader even |
| 22:10.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | but zzztop and [h]top (or actually what they are based on) would also be info sources, so for example an alarm of JoergsSystemMonitor would also kick in when a process suddenly is using way more CPU time or RAM than it usually does |
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| 22:30.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway such monitoring tool would be *the* answer of choice to any complaints about "N900 battery standby time too short" |
| 22:32.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | it would literally list whatt's wrong, either some software that keeps CPU busy, or constant data traffic over cellular/GPRS, or WLAN in constamt scan mode, or backlight on all the time, or even "your battery capacity seems way lower that standard! battery old and worn?" |
| 22:33.00 | *** part/#maemo freakazoid0223 (~matt@pool-96-245-252-116.phlapa.fios.verizon.net) |
| 22:33.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | lower thaN* standard |
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