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| 02:49.09 | Oksana | does not get why there are two conflicting updates: Linux-kernel-for-power-user and Linux-kernel-for-power-user-(boot-image-for-Uboot) . OS: CSSU Testing Thumb (21.2011.38-1Tmaemo11+thumb0) . /Don't forget that it lacks microUSB port and hence flasher is not an option/ |
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| 05:40.21 | Maxdamantus | Got the N9 I bought. |
| 05:40.27 | Maxdamantus | seems to be in better condition than I expected. |
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| 05:51.57 | jonwil | why would anyone want a N9? |
| 05:52.18 | Maxdamantus | Oksana: I suspect the latter will be a uboot image with that Linux kernel appended. |
| 05:52.35 | Maxdamantus | because extra N900s are harder to find. |
| 05:55.06 | KotCzarny | n9 is a lot different software wise than n900 |
| 05:55.35 | Maxdamantus | It still runs Xorg, right? |
| 05:56.16 | KotCzarny | yeah |
| 05:56.19 | KotCzarny | but no gtk |
| 05:56.31 | KotCzarny | only qt and xlib i think |
| 05:57.24 | Maxdamantus | Gtk is normally just a library. |
| 05:57.50 | Maxdamantus | it's not like it's lacking any convenient support for a Gtk service. |
| 05:58.28 | KotCzarny | still, its just showing that it can be different |
| 05:59.09 | Maxdamantus | I don't expect it to be the same. I don't particularly like Maemo either, but it seems preferable over something like Android to me . |
| 05:59.55 | jonwil | I have owned 4 different cell phones in my life and the N900 is the best one I have ever owned |
| 06:00.09 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 06:00.55 | jonwil | A fair few years ago now I did a 6 month student internship with Motorola (basically 6 months of full time paid work that counted as a university course) |
| 06:01.02 | Maxdamantus | N900 is my second one, after some carier-specific phone running some special OS. |
| 06:01.24 | jonwil | My first phone was a Motorola E378i which was a piece of crap. |
| 06:02.02 | jonwil | Then I lost that phone somewhere after only a short amount of time and replaced it with a Motorola L6 which was a little better but still crap. |
| 06:02.40 | jonwil | Both of those were bought outright and used on a prepaid plan |
| 06:03.38 | jonwil | Then quite a while after that I switched carriers to a different carrier on a by-the-month contract and bought a Motorola Z6 linux phone which wasn't the worst thing in the world (especially after some nice hackers found a backdoor in the boot loader that let you replace the kernel and root filesystemwithout failing the signature checks) |
| 06:04.04 | jonwil | Then I got the N900 and have been happy ever since |
| 06:04.36 | jonwil | Other than the USB port problems, the N900 is a surprisingly tough phone |
| 06:05.02 | jonwil | Its landed on the floor more than once (enough to pop off the back cover and even the battery sometimes) but its still going strong |
| 06:06.08 | jonwil | Technically this is my third N900 after the first one was replaced under warranty because the flex cable connecting the multi-color LED and front camera to the main phone part failed and the second one was replaced for the busted USB problem |
| 06:06.12 | Maxdamantus | I've dropped mine on tar-seal road a couple of times. |
| 06:06.29 | jonwil | both of which are manufacturing/design problems rather than failings on my part I suspect |
| 06:06.34 | KotCzarny | mine was dropped hard few times too |
| 06:06.45 | jonwil | why do you need a N9 if you already have a N900? |
| 06:06.58 | Maxdamantus | I soldered the USB port to the motherboard a while ago. |
| 06:07.00 | KotCzarny | i would like n9 (and 770) to port oscp to |
| 06:07.12 | jonwil | fair enough :) |
| 06:07.16 | Maxdamantus | in case I want to experiment with things. |
| 06:07.31 | Maxdamantus | I'm meant to kind of have a phone. |
| 06:07.48 | KotCzarny | also, it can be considered jolla phone |
| 06:08.32 | jonwil | me, I am running all sorts of self-built packages on my phone including my own reverse engineered MCE clone |
| 06:09.01 | Maxdamantus | isn't MCE already open? |
| 06:09.17 | Maxdamantus | I think I modified it to avoid turning the screen on when plugging in USB. |
| 06:09.23 | jonwil | not the N900 version |
| 06:09.30 | Maxdamantus | maybe it was DSME. |
| 06:09.35 | jonwil | DSME is open |
| 06:09.38 | jonwil | MCE wasn't |
| 06:09.43 | jonwil | not until I came up with https://github.com/community-ssu/mce/:) |
| 06:09.49 | jonwil | which btw was a LOT of work |
| 06:10.27 | Maxdamantus | https://gist.github.com/Maxdamantus/d607903103bd63667fee |
| 06:10.46 | Maxdamantus | ah, that is MCE. |
| 06:10.51 | Maxdamantus | It'll be your one then. |
| 06:11.02 | jonwil | yeah probably |
| 06:14.50 | jonwil | Anyhow, I should probably get back to working on libcodelockui :) |
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| 06:26.46 | Maxdamantus | I see that the volume controls work while the screen is off by default on the N9. |
| 06:27.01 | KotCzarny | is this clean flash? |
| 06:27.06 | Maxdamantus | No. |
| 06:27.37 | Maxdamantus | I suspect it's almost clean. It looks like the last person did a flash then installed some psm-toggle thing. |
| 06:40.31 | Maxdamantus | The status light on this thing looks like HAL 9000 when it's off. |
| 06:41.34 | jonwil | wonders if people appreciate all the reverse engineering work he does for the N900 |
| 06:41.45 | jonwil | I am sure they do though :) |
| 06:45.24 | Maxdamantus | wonders if he should put a tiny bit of epoxy over the missing corner around the phone jack. |
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| 08:09.03 | Sicelo | Maxdamantus: isn't it normal and expected that volume controls should work while screen is off? |
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| 08:16.33 | Maxdamantus | Sicelo: apparently not on the N900. |
| 08:16.52 | Maxdamantus | that's an extra configuration option in /etc/dsme.ini or something. |
| 08:17.43 | Sicelo | no. default |
| 08:19.32 | Maxdamantus | Hm? |
| 08:19.48 | Maxdamantus | By default, the keyboard device is disabled when the screen is off. |
| 08:19.49 | bencoh | Sicelo: default when playing music with mediaplayer |
| 08:19.57 | bencoh | (or mafw, dunno) |
| 08:20.07 | Maxdamantus | Ah, maybe that's the case. |
| 08:20.17 | Maxdamantus | hasn't used the default music player in a while. |
| 08:20.30 | bencoh | which is a bit annoying for other players |
| 08:20.50 | bencoh | the most annoying thing is the power button "interruption" |
| 08:21.21 | Sicelo | ah. 3rd party player :) |
| 08:21.22 | Maxdamantus | never presses the power button. |
| 08:21.27 | Maxdamantus | except when turning it on |
| 08:21.33 | bencoh | when you play something with mplayer/cmus/whatever and press it, music get stucks for a few seconds and system feels slow/unresponsive |
| 08:21.39 | bencoh | I wonder where that comes from |
| 08:22.51 | Maxdamantus | I've always assumed pressing the power button does some sort of temporary freeze of processes it doesn't completely trust or something. |
| 08:23.11 | bencoh | maybe |
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| 09:14.44 | Sicelo | bencoh: even in CSSU power button does that? |
| 09:19.52 | bencoh | cssu-stable yes |
| 09:19.58 | bencoh | dont know about others |
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| 09:46.17 | Vajb | confirmed with mplayer + cssu-testing |
| 09:46.32 | Vajb | like if i double click power to lock screen |
| 09:46.38 | Vajb | there is slight pause |
| 09:47.07 | Vajb | also if i click it to see time same thing happens |
| 09:48.22 | Vajb | time well spent yesterday. I looked everywhere and cuoldn't pinpoint exactly what makes that task switcher icon appear in top left corner. |
| 09:49.35 | Vajb | next thing to do will be to compare with other device to see if maemeego does some other magic than just to lose image. |
| 09:50.02 | Vajb | but i suppose it just replaces image with black box sort of |
| 09:50.19 | Vajb | would match with behaviour at least. |
| 09:53.24 | bencoh | probably yes |
| 09:54.28 | Sicelo | you're really serious about this :) |
| 09:55.37 | Sicelo | by the way, after you succeed, how do you plan on getting into the application list? |
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| 10:15.16 | jonwil | The button in question is rendered by hildon-desktop FYI |
| 10:17.16 | jonwil | probably hd-title-bar.c is what is drawing it |
| 10:17.26 | jonwil | But yeah again removing it is totally stupid |
| 10:19.07 | bencoh | jonwil: by the way, sure we do (appreciate) |
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| 12:00.08 | Sicelo | for the life of me, i can't find a working tutorial for flashplayer 10 on n900 ... i need it for my 2nd device |
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| 12:18.57 | Vajb | Sicelo: im speaking of task manager button not application list. |
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| 12:31.09 | bencoh | Sicelo: iirc it was just a matter of downloading flash10 (for harmattan?) and hexedit it |
| 12:31.19 | bencoh | I think there is a tmo post |
| 12:31.23 | bencoh | ~flash10 |
| 12:31.26 | bencoh | ~flash |
| 12:31.26 | infobot | [maemo-flashing] http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware, or - on linux PC - download&extract http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz, cd into it, do sudo ./flash-it-all.sh |
| 12:31.32 | bencoh | meh :) |
| 12:37.56 | Sicelo | haha |
| 12:38.04 | Sicelo | not reflashing :p |
| 12:48.16 | bencoh | ~flashplayer |
| 12:48.16 | infobot | somebody said flashplayer was http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1295928&postcount=2268 |
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| 12:50.11 | Sicelo | thanks. got to it from another angle ;) |
| 12:56.08 | Sicelo | this link seems better. |
| 12:58.21 | Sicelo | um .. download link seems dead. or i have to create ubuntu one account? |
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| 13:00.38 | Sicelo | ah, lol. ubuntu one closed. |
| 13:01.20 | Oksanaa | ;-) Cloud may be the future, but it's not a bright one |
| 13:02.47 | Sohil876 | Cloud is too early imho. |
| 13:07.29 | Sicelo | :) |
| 13:07.40 | Sicelo | the sun & wind drives cloud away |
| 13:08.48 | Sicelo | anyway, got the file in my other n900 :) |
| 13:10.10 | klopsi-u3 | thanks to transflective screen, n900 is readable in full sun |
| 13:10.43 | Oksanaa | :-D And so is Neo900, or will be |
| 13:13.49 | Oksanaa | By the way, how is Deutsche Bank? I heard about lay-offs or something? |
| 13:14.27 | klopsi-u3 | hard times |
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| 13:33.05 | bencoh | Sicelo: I think I found the .deb with some google-fuu |
| 13:33.35 | Sicelo | bencoh: pm? :) |
| 13:34.43 | bencoh | err, not sure I have it around here |
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| 13:36.26 | Sicelo | thought you meant now |
| 13:40.33 | bencoh | hmmm, looks like I have 10-1 on my n900 |
| 13:40.51 | bencoh | (installed, couldnt find the package on it) |
| 13:43.29 | Sicelo | i have the file bencoh. thanks. had a copy of the 10-1 deb on my main N900 |
| 13:52.33 | bencoh | :) |
| 14:02.58 | Sicelo | i just want to 'speedtest' my mobile network ... somehow i have 300MB expiring in a few hours that i wasn't aware of all along |
| 14:03.51 | Sicelo | can't think what else to do with this data |
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| 15:50.35 | txt-file | Sicelo, torrent!!! :-D |
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| 18:21.52 | Vajb | hmm tried find to find hd-title-bar.c, but it says it doesn't excist |
| 18:29.38 | bencoh | Vajb: hildon-desktop/src/home/hd-title-bar.c |
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| 20:15.51 | drozdziak1 | Hi guys, is there any reasonable distro to use on N900 instead of Maemo? I mean, with an ability for making calls and texting? (The #n900 channel didn't answer my question, neither did googling it) |
| 20:17.12 | Sicelo | no |
| 20:17.19 | Sicelo | what's wrong with Maemo? |
| 20:18.06 | drozdziak1 | Virtually nothing. I'm just thinking about finally buying an N900 |
| 20:18.10 | Sicelo | likely in the near future all distros that support ARM will do what you want ... but as of yet, none other |
| 20:18.19 | Sicelo | enjoy Maemo :) |
| 20:18.55 | drozdziak1 | Is it because of lack of documentation for hardware? |
| 20:18.56 | Sicelo | it's not as 'stale' as you may think .. still a few devs keeping it as fresh as circumstances allow |
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| 20:19.41 | drozdziak1 | Yes, I do realise that, there's still a market for new units in my country. It's just its specs are a bit outdated for the present standards. |
| 20:19.58 | Sicelo | drozdziak1: i don't think you've seen a phone that works 100% with 'standard' linux distros .. (except maybe ubuntu phone? not sure) |
| 20:20.55 | drozdziak1 | Sicelo: You mean some N900's ability to do that? |
| 20:21.12 | Sicelo | no |
| 20:21.14 | drozdziak1 | Or the lack of it being indifferent? |
| 20:22.32 | bencoh | well, actually, you might be able to place calls and a few other things, but nothing out of the box |
| 20:22.37 | bencoh | and you wont get any clean UI |
| 20:22.45 | Sicelo | drozdziak1: gfx drivers for example are closed source. modem 'speaks' in a way that needs some special closed-source nokia binaries .. which means and depends on particular kernel |
| 20:22.51 | bencoh | (unless you start working on it) |
| 20:23.05 | Sicelo | bencoh: aiui that's still future :) do you know a way currently? to call? |
| 20:23.22 | drozdziak1 | I see, that makes a lot of sense. |
| 20:24.03 | drozdziak1 | I wonder, why can't someone for once make a device that's fully hackable? Just. Once. |
| 20:24.12 | bencoh | Sicelo: nemo is able to do it with opensource parts; as for kernel, required drivers have been merged |
| 20:24.36 | Sicelo | not really opensource parts, iirc. |
| 20:24.59 | bencoh | nemo? fully opensource apart from battery/bme iirc |
| 20:25.35 | bencoh | unfortunately they dropped n900 support and went full wayland |
| 20:25.38 | Sicelo | hmm, :-/ i don't remember that |
| 20:26.32 | Sicelo | i know skry made a lot of progress with Arch, but even he ended up abandoning it. |
| 20:27.17 | bencoh | and even before that, they started releasing some new UI that just feels dead slow on n900 and is half-incomplete |
| 20:28.08 | bencoh | worst thing is they removed a lot of working images, and the few still lying around aren't too great |
| 20:28.14 | bencoh | (some of them work, kindof) |
| 20:28.25 | Sicelo | ui is not too big problem though. when i played with debian i didn't mind sending sms via ofono scripts, or connecting to 3g that way |
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| 20:28.52 | Sicelo | i should look where my nemo images are. but nemo was also stuck on 2.6.37 kernel, was it not? |
| 20:29.00 | bencoh | probably |
| 20:29.43 | Sicelo | that's what i remember. in fact, the rescueos kernel was based on nemos :) |
| 20:29.50 | bencoh | I dunno which modem/voice kernel driver it used, but if it's the same as in maemo (or close enough) then their ofono/pulseaudio setup might work on debian with latest (4.3) kernel |
| 20:30.45 | bencoh | (or a kernel built from pali's or sre's tree, whichever works best) |
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| 20:31.32 | bencoh | Sicelo: https://lwn.net/Articles/635328/ |
| 20:32.03 | Sicelo | yes, know that one. spoke to sre while he worked on it |
| 20:32.33 | Sicelo | i seem to think something is still missing .. maybe i should play with debian again :) |
| 20:32.58 | bencoh | I wonder what he's running on his daily n900 (if he still has one as a daily phone) |
| 20:33.24 | Sicelo | last it was maemo :p actually he's generally online via xmpp with it |
| 20:34.25 | bencoh | ah |
| 20:34.41 | bencoh | do we have a maemo xmpp mux? |
| 20:35.10 | Sicelo | MUC, you mean? i don't believe so |
| 20:35.55 | bencoh | muc* yeah |
| 20:35.57 | Sicelo | sre used to hangout on OFTC, but seems he left IRC, or at least not so active there anymore |
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| 20:38.34 | Sicelo009N | hmm, so you are right after all bencoh :) |
| 20:39.20 | Sicelo009N | partially. The debian kernel has not yet enabled the config option (there is a debian bug for that) |
| 20:39.30 | Sicelo009N | but the mainline kernel contains all required bits |
| 20:39.35 | Sicelo009N | that's sre ^^ |
| 20:39.48 | Sicelo009N | so far I only got the downlink direction working (from extern phone to n900), but thats a userland problem |
| 20:40.49 | bencoh | did you just try placing a call? |
| 20:41.32 | Sicelo | no. i don't even have any 4.x kernel here .. i'm pasting what he has said just now |
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| 20:42.04 | Sicelo | so problem is in debian, ... meaning other distros may be fine. |
| 20:42.17 | Sicelo | guess it's time to finally use my other N900 |
| 20:42.53 | bencoh | ah |
| 20:42.57 | Sicelo | https://lists.debian.org/debian-kernel/2015/07/msg00079.html <<-- debian 'bug' |
| 20:43.07 | bencoh | well, building a kernel on debian isn't that hard :) |
| 20:43.16 | Sicelo | yeah |
| 20:44.11 | Sicelo | wonders where skry went off to .. he'd be happy man now |
| 20:44.23 | bencoh | ^^ |
| 20:44.35 | bencoh | I really should get a second n900 |
| 20:45.18 | Sicelo | you have no other device even? |
| 20:45.27 | Sicelo | dumb phone, etc.? |
| 20:46.10 | bencoh | I do have some dump phone |
| 20:46.17 | Sicelo | i did all my nemo/arch/debian/etc. experiments on my only N900 (at the time) which was also my main phone :) |
| 20:46.27 | Sicelo | risky, i know, but i had no choice |
| 20:47.05 | Sicelo | only stopped when my USB broke, and i got lazy thereafter. since 2nd N900 arrived, i have done nothing. it's just a backup N900 |
| 20:47.18 | bencoh | playing with maemo userland is mostly fine (unless you break essential stuff - and you're good for a rescueOS round), but fiddling with other distros is ... meh :) |
| 20:47.37 | bencoh | keep inserting/removing the microsd |
| 20:47.57 | Sicelo | i made a partition off mmc at the time :p |
| 20:48.10 | bencoh | haha |
| 20:48.12 | bencoh | noway :-) |
| 20:48.29 | Sicelo | yup. couldn't get a quality microsd |
| 20:52.19 | Sicelo009N | anyway, so i was spreading fud. drozdziak1 seems you might be able to get your calls in other distro now :) |
| 20:53.14 | bencoh | but still not out of the box and with some work (especially if you want a GUI) |
| 20:53.44 | Sicelo | of course. but i guess someone fiddling with other distros should expect to work hard :p |
| 20:54.26 | Sicelo | once i broke something in the N900, and maemo could no longer create /dev nodes. i almost reflashed |
| 20:54.45 | Sicelo | *broke something while playing with debian.. |
| 20:57.19 | Sicelo | bencoh: seems XMPP is 'dead' as far as user numbers are concerned |
| 20:58.33 | Sicelo | tbh, i hate how browsers have taken over the computing world. gone are the days of RSS client, telnet client, IRC client, etc. webchat, google reader, etc. :( |
| 21:01.06 | Sicelo | of course it's because this helps user not configure anything, and is one of the reasons why whatsapp and friends are so pervasive. |
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| 21:20.47 | drozdziak1 | Sicelo009N: That's great! :) Gotta go, see you all around, I guess. |
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| 23:16.15 | jonwil | hi |
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