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| 01:05.19 | Maxdamantus | http://maxdamantus.eu.org/epp.jpg http://maxdamantus.eu.org/eppi.jpg |
| 01:05.48 | Maxdamantus | Still fits fine. |
| 01:06.37 | KotCzarny | your jpg loads funny |
| 01:06.51 | Maxdamantus | blame camera-ui.e |
| 01:07.09 | Maxdamantus | Well, the CSSU version of it. |
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| 03:07.02 | Jack64 | KotCzarny: Having loads of fun with pygtk dude :) |
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| 08:54.11 | KotCzarny | jack64: yeah, its quite easy to write full featured app in pygtk, but mind you, if you need frequent updates its a bit on the slower side |
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| 11:45.24 | mvaenskae | cheers :) |
| 11:45.42 | mvaenskae | can someone tell me what the difference is between cssu and the normal repositories? :) |
| 11:47.57 | sixwheeledbeast^ | define "normal" |
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| 11:54.47 | mvaenskae | sixwheeledbeast^: extras, extras-testing, extras-devel :) |
| 11:55.17 | sixwheeledbeast^ | cssu has no relation then |
| 11:55.38 | sixwheeledbeast^ | ~extras |
| 11:55.38 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras |
| 11:56.18 | mvaenskae | but they both show up as repositories |
| 11:57.08 | sixwheeledbeast^ | yes cssu is community system updates, like the Nokia SSU repo. |
| 11:57.28 | sixwheeledbeast^ | ~ssu |
| 11:57.29 | infobot | hmm... ssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/SSU aka Seamless Software Update |
| 11:57.55 | mvaenskae | ahhh, so they are used for system specific stuff whereas extra/community is extensions? |
| 12:01.35 | bencoh | kindof, yeah |
| 12:03.01 | bencoh | packages going in cssu either replace stock packages or are needed for packages replacing stock stuff |
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| 12:12.20 | sixwheeledbeast^ | yer, think. Optional for Extras and Important/Required for SSU packages. In terms of Debian priority policy. |
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| 14:26.14 | KotCzarny | extras is user contributed software, cssu is maintained by a cssu group |
| 14:26.24 | KotCzarny | cssu mainly updates system packages |
| 14:26.40 | KotCzarny | extras packages can contain malware, cssu i produced by trusted group |
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| 14:31.10 | Sicelo | lol |
| 14:31.19 | KotCzarny | s/i/is/ |
| 14:31.21 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 14:31.32 | KotCzarny | s/ i / is / |
| 14:32.43 | Sicelo | not sure about your definition |
| 14:33.25 | KotCzarny | anyone can put a package into extras*, selected people can put a package/update to cssu, right? |
| 14:34.49 | bencoh | right |
| 14:35.38 | bencoh | even though you need to ask for upload rights to extras |
| 14:36.25 | KotCzarny | do i? |
| 14:38.53 | Sicelo | i'd say cssu is about updating core system packages (those that are updateable, or reverse-engineerable). the different extras-* are for what the name says .. extra packages that enhance user experience, but are not core applications. there will also be some overlap between extras and cssu (nicocam is an example) when an extras package is considered good enough to replace a stock package |
| 14:39.56 | KotCzarny | one could think cssu as nokia's ssu (system updates) continuation, and extras as user contributed software |
| 14:40.00 | Sicelo | CSSU is basically what we would be expecting Nokia to provide if N900 was still officialy supported |
| 14:40.03 | Sicelo | yes |
| 14:44.33 | mvaenskae | hm, what are some of the biggest things the n900 could do thanks to the community apart from root, overclocking, hd video recording and thumb2 assembly hack? |
| 14:45.40 | mvaenskae | i don't remember them all anymore and would like to give a comprehensive list that has been done thanks to the community :) |
| 14:45.59 | mvaenskae | oh right, full on debian :D |
| 14:46.33 | Sicelo | brain scanner |
| 14:46.37 | Sicelo | :) |
| 14:46.52 | KotCzarny | um |
| 14:47.00 | KotCzarny | basically anything linux machine can |
| 14:47.23 | mvaenskae | Sicelo: i sadly cannot get the reference article without registering on the website :( |
| 14:47.25 | KotCzarny | limited by hardware (memory, cpu, drivers) |
| 14:47.42 | mvaenskae | true but for a mobile OS some of the stuff was revolutionary |
| 14:47.46 | kerio | indeed |
| 14:47.48 | Sicelo | mvaenskae: check youtube .. maybe the video still available |
| 14:48.00 | kerio | mvaenskae: usb host mode |
| 14:48.10 | mvaenskae | was it true usb host mode? |
| 14:48.14 | KotCzarny | for me its the ability to write an app that works on my pc and my n900 without rewriting from scratch |
| 14:48.15 | kerio | ...kinda |
| 14:48.19 | KotCzarny | ~hen |
| 14:48.28 | infobot | hen is, like, hostmode-easy-now, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232, or see ~hostmode |
| 14:48.28 | mvaenskae | and was that thanks to maemo itself? |
| 14:48.28 | KotCzarny | ~ping |
| 14:48.28 | infobot | 1 packet transmitted, 1 packet received, 0.0% packet loss |
| 14:48.28 | kerio | it *was* missing some hardware, so you needed to enumerate the usb device manually |
| 14:48.39 | mvaenskae | KotCzarny: indeed, i totally forgot that feature! |
| 14:48.44 | Sicelo | it was true usb except inability to detected the speed of connected device |
| 14:48.48 | mvaenskae | KotCzarny: thanks for explicitly stating that :) |
| 14:48.50 | kerio | but you could attach a usb hub and have the peripherals attached to it work automatically |
| 14:49.08 | Sicelo | it was better USB host that OTG .. |
| 14:49.23 | Sicelo | *thank |
| 14:49.24 | mvaenskae | thanks then for usb host mode :) i assumed it was "common" but back in the day true |
| 14:49.25 | Sicelo | mean |
| 14:49.45 | KotCzarny | nokia said its impossible, joerg proved otherwise using ugly hack |
| 14:49.51 | KotCzarny | (hostmode) |
| 14:50.41 | Sicelo | lol.. you're missing the point mvaenskae. the "common" usb host mode is not as useful as N900 version |
| 14:50.56 | kerio | Sicelo: that's just because of software support, not hardware |
| 14:51.11 | Ashley` | KotCzarny: you're polish? |
| 14:51.14 | Sicelo | ? |
| 14:51.15 | kerio | usb otg would work better than the vboost hack |
| 14:51.19 | mvaenskae | Sicelo: i have to think back a few years ;) i am a bit damaged by android :D |
| 14:51.33 | KotCzarny | Ashley: yes, i'm from .pl |
| 14:51.36 | kerio | unless i'm missing something |
| 14:51.51 | Sicelo | not sure what you're talking about, so can't say |
| 14:52.05 | Ashley` | KotCzarny: nice, I am from lower silesia |
| 14:52.21 | KotCzarny | Ashley: does it matter in any way? :) |
| 14:53.10 | Sicelo | mvaenskae: pentesting too |
| 14:54.31 | mvaenskae | Sicelo: i knew starting to list things would help me hit my word limit of 750 words way too quickly |
| 14:54.39 | KotCzarny | hehe |
| 14:54.42 | mvaenskae | i think it needs to be mentioned as well though |
| 14:54.52 | mvaenskae | indeed that was not such an easy thing back then |
| 14:54.56 | KotCzarny | make the paper people actually wanting open software |
| 14:55.07 | mvaenskae | it is a foss course ;) |
| 14:55.38 | mvaenskae | i was insisting on covering maemo because it holds a special place in my heart <3 |
| 14:55.59 | mvaenskae | even though i dislike binary blobs maemo is one of the very few exceptions :) |
| 14:58.03 | kerio | the n900 holds a special place in my heart even though linux sucks |
| 14:58.10 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 14:58.18 | KotCzarny | but it sucks much less than alternatives |
| 14:58.23 | kerio | nuh uh |
| 14:58.32 | KotCzarny | uh-um |
| 14:58.33 | kerio | any bsd > linux |
| 14:58.42 | KotCzarny | i have yet to see bsd phone |
| 14:59.28 | kerio | well, there's a weird fruit company that makes one |
| 14:59.32 | kerio | :> |
| 14:59.37 | KotCzarny | thats not bsd |
| 14:59.48 | KotCzarny | that's beesdenstein |
| 14:59.58 | KotCzarny | with heavy makeup |
| 15:00.31 | kerio | but yea, no phones with a unix desktop other than the n900 |
| 15:00.42 | kerio | i wonder what's the netbsd support like |
| 15:00.44 | KotCzarny | unix-like |
| 15:01.28 | KotCzarny | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Danger_Hiptop |
| 15:01.29 | KotCzarny | wow |
| 15:01.44 | kerio | two thousands and TWO? |
| 15:01.45 | kerio | wow |
| 15:02.18 | KotCzarny | produced by Danger Incorporated (since 2008, a subsidiary of Microsoft) from 2002 to 2010. |
| 15:02.22 | KotCzarny | he he |
| 15:02.40 | KotCzarny | wonder if its the reason its no more |
| 15:02.43 | kerio | yeah but does it run netbsd or does it "run" netbsd? |
| 15:03.09 | kerio | the n900 "runs" a lot more things than it runs |
| 15:04.12 | KotCzarny | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:04.13 | KotCzarny | lol |
| 15:04.19 | kerio | danger indeed |
| 15:04.24 | KotCzarny | so kind of netbsd droid |
| 15:05.44 | kerio | i should really figure out how to run netbsd on my sheevaplug |
| 15:05.57 | kerio | i really don't know how to migrate the data i have on my external drive, however |
| 15:06.08 | kerio | it's a single 1tb ext4 partition |
| 15:06.40 | KotCzarny | i made me nas from microitx via-c7 board |
| 15:07.31 | kerio | sadly arm is a tier 2 architecture for freebsd |
| 15:08.21 | kerio | the world needs more zfs |
| 15:08.26 | kerio | and also more ram |
| 15:08.35 | KotCzarny | or optimized apps |
| 15:08.51 | KotCzarny | we had 16MB in 1997 and we were happy |
| 15:09.16 | kerio | zfs is very optimized |
| 15:09.17 | KotCzarny | 32MB was a lot |
| 15:09.29 | kerio | it's just optimized towards the side of USING A GINORMOUS AMOUNT OF RAM |
| 15:09.54 | kerio | for good reasons, mind you |
| 15:10.05 | KotCzarny | if you keep everything in ram then just use ramdisk with fat :P |
| 15:10.13 | kerio | i see you've never used zfs |
| 15:10.30 | KotCzarny | played a bit with fuse-zfs |
| 15:10.37 | kerio | eeeeeeeeeh |
| 15:10.39 | KotCzarny | pity it was unstable |
| 15:10.58 | KotCzarny | and we wont see zfs on anything unlicensed |
| 15:11.07 | KotCzarny | so, sorry |
| 15:11.41 | kerio | freebsd has no problems with it \_o_/ |
| 15:11.57 | kerio | i wish i had enough ram to run it in dedup mode |
| 15:12.16 | kerio | i only have 32gb on my server |
| 15:12.46 | KotCzarny | http://zfsonlinux.org/ |
| 15:14.19 | KotCzarny | This work was prepared as an account of work sponsored by an agency of the United States Government. Neither the United States Government nor Lawrence Livermore National Security, LLC nor any of their employees, makes any warranty, express or implied, or assumes any liability or responsibility for the accuracy, completeness, or usefulness of any information, apparatus, product, or process disclosed, or represents that its use would not infringe privately-own |
| 15:16.56 | bencoh | mvaenskae: raven/cleven and wireless injection, fcamera for a raw, hackable camera framework |
| 15:18.07 | Ashley` | support for stylus pressure? |
| 15:18.14 | Ashley` | i dunno, i |
| 15:18.31 | KotCzarny | resistive screen supports pressure? |
| 15:18.35 | Ashley` | have never used n900 without cssu |
| 15:18.39 | Ashley` | KotCzarny: yep |
| 15:18.43 | Ashley` | KotCzarny: capacitive doesnt |
| 15:18.54 | Ashley` | KotCzarny: you can use pressure in mypaint on n900 for example |
| 15:18.58 | KotCzarny | uhum |
| 15:19.04 | jonwil | I read somewhere that Sun deliberately chose a license for OpenSolaris that was not GPL compatible to prevent Linux being able to use ZFS |
| 15:19.11 | Ashley` | KotCzarny: deevad used to draw things on n900 |
| 15:19.59 | Sicelo | what's so good about it? (zfs) |
| 15:20.24 | KotCzarny | sicelo, zfs is very well designed |
| 15:20.57 | Sicelo | what does it bring the end user? :) |
| 15:21.12 | KotCzarny | um, anything you could ever wanted from a filesystem |
| 15:21.37 | KotCzarny | on-the-fly comprression? otf checksumming? otf encryption? all check |
| 15:21.45 | KotCzarny | online snapshots? check |
| 15:21.55 | KotCzarny | and much more |
| 15:22.13 | KotCzarny | it can be dynamically extended |
| 15:22.20 | bencoh | Sicelo: pretty much everything you can do with LVM, but at filesystem level |
| 15:22.21 | KotCzarny | it you can add disks to it online |
| 15:22.26 | KotCzarny | (and remove too i think) |
| 15:23.16 | Sicelo | i'll read up on it |
| 15:24.20 | mvaenskae | hm, apart from some of the lower-level libs maemo is fully FOSS, right? |
| 15:24.34 | bencoh | not really "fully" |
| 15:25.04 | KotCzarny | binary blobs limit ability of having updated libs |
| 15:25.08 | bencoh | significant parts of the GUI is closed as well |
| 15:25.27 | KotCzarny | so we are stuck with 2.6.28 |
| 15:25.57 | bencoh | browser UI, phone UI, for instance |
| 15:25.57 | KotCzarny | unless one doesnt need gsm-voice, then pali did good work of porting hardware to 4.2 |
| 15:26.13 | mvaenskae | which parts of the GUI are that bencoh? http://wiki.maemo.org/images/thumb/9/94/Top_level_architecture.png/800px-Top_level_architecture.png |
| 15:26.29 | mvaenskae | meh, sorry, too slow >.> |
| 15:26.33 | mvaenskae | i cannot read irc today :) |
| 15:26.45 | bencoh | KotCzarny: 4.2 should have pretty much everything needed for gsm voice calls afaict |
| 15:27.00 | mvaenskae | meh, i need another 750 words to fully describe maemo :( |
| 15:27.08 | mvaenskae | or even another 2000 |
| 15:27.21 | bencoh | unfortunately other drivers broke/were removed over time |
| 15:27.56 | mvaenskae | which binary blobs are the worst offenders? |
| 15:28.11 | mvaenskae | in rt-com and audio? |
| 15:28.36 | KotCzarny | there is no opensource opengl driver |
| 15:28.39 | KotCzarny | am i right? |
| 15:28.45 | mvaenskae | btw, could the UI be exchanged? |
| 15:29.11 | Sicelo | not realistic to expect FOSS driver for the gpu |
| 15:29.48 | KotCzarny | sicelo, still, that would make having full opengl instead of es one |
| 15:29.58 | KotCzarny | ie. 3d apps 'working' without patching |
| 15:30.45 | bencoh | KotCzarny: you can try and build mesa |
| 15:30.48 | bencoh | but .... :) |
| 15:31.00 | bencoh | I'm pretty sure it will be painfully slow |
| 15:31.13 | KotCzarny | you mean software rendering? |
| 15:31.15 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 15:31.20 | bencoh | yeah |
| 15:31.28 | bencoh | mesa-llvmpipe |
| 15:31.38 | KotCzarny | nah, as you've said, defeats the purpose |
| 15:32.03 | bencoh | oh, llvmpipe hasnt been ported to arm. nevermind then, it'd be plain software mesa |
| 15:33.24 | bencoh | (or it kinda works but is not officially supported) |
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| 16:00.46 | KotCzarny | hrm |
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| 16:22.34 | KotCzarny | how come code snippet works standalone yet segfaults in app? |
| 16:22.54 | KotCzarny | is there some way linking can mess things up? |
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| 16:27.40 | Sicelo | app passing crazy parameters? |
| 16:28.22 | KotCzarny | nope |
| 16:28.30 | KotCzarny | same code, same params |
| 16:28.48 | KotCzarny | it looks like linking with other things messes library objects |
| 16:30.01 | KotCzarny | same compilation flags, same linking flags and libs |
| 16:35.32 | KotCzarny | and most funnily segv is because glibc detects it |
| 16:35.34 | KotCzarny | *** Error in `/mnt/_data3/sdb/_src_moje/oscp/oscp': free(): invalid pointer: 0xb7deee40 *** |
| 16:37.20 | KotCzarny | http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=2mLbek0C |
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| 16:40.21 | bencoh | memory corruption ... stack/heap overflow and/or race condition |
| 16:40.26 | bencoh | most probably :) |
| 16:40.41 | KotCzarny | bencoh, but it even occurs if i move function to main |
| 16:41.09 | KotCzarny | got any idea how to debug/fix it? |
| 16:41.26 | bencoh | double check/printf your pointers :) |
| 16:42.07 | bencoh | https://xkcd.com/371/ ;) |
| 16:43.36 | KotCzarny | could it be bug in zzlib ? |
| 16:43.42 | KotCzarny | i mean zziplib |
| 16:48.01 | KotCzarny | you know, when i do int main(...) { SNIPPET; } and link with things i link oscp with it segfault, when i do the same code but link only with zziplib it works |
| 16:49.50 | KotCzarny | http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=VjJAruhD |
| 16:49.53 | KotCzarny | thats the snippet |
| 16:52.55 | KotCzarny | here's the highlighted version if you prefer: http://pastebin.com/VjJAruhD |
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| 17:14.06 | ceene | KotCzarny: have you analyzed the coredump? |
| 17:14.23 | KotCzarny | ceene, elaborate please |
| 17:14.29 | ceene | when it segfaults |
| 17:14.33 | ceene | it should drop a coredump file |
| 17:14.43 | KotCzarny | no coredump |
| 17:14.55 | ceene | ulimit -c unlimited |
| 17:15.16 | KotCzarny | Aborted (core dumped) |
| 17:15.18 | KotCzarny | now what? |
| 17:15.21 | ceene | now you can |
| 17:15.27 | ceene | gdb executable-file coredump |
| 17:15.43 | KotCzarny | and? |
| 17:15.51 | ceene | it will show the tree of calls that resulted in the coredump |
| 17:15.58 | KotCzarny | bt is the same as when running in gdb directly |
| 17:16.11 | KotCzarny | http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=2mLbek0C |
| 17:17.26 | ceene | so it seems indeed zzlib is the one segfaulting |
| 17:17.33 | ceene | by trying to free something unfreeable |
| 17:17.52 | KotCzarny | but the same code and params work when the function is called in separate snippet |
| 17:18.49 | ceene | the same code, exactly? |
| 17:19.01 | bencoh | I really doubt its a bug in zziplib |
| 17:19.03 | KotCzarny | int main() {} is the same |
| 17:19.18 | KotCzarny | the difference might be things i link in |
| 17:19.41 | ceene | there may be some name collision? |
| 17:19.54 | KotCzarny | might be the possibility |
| 17:20.01 | bencoh | name collision? |
| 17:20.49 | KotCzarny | ceene: got any idea how to debug that? |
| 17:20.49 | bencoh | "name collision" would show at link time |
| 17:20.51 | ceene | are you static compiling it all, aren't you? |
| 17:20.56 | KotCzarny | yes |
| 17:21.10 | KotCzarny | zzlib is static, but libc and libz is system |
| 17:21.19 | ceene | you can compile everything with -g then and step by step inside the lib |
| 17:21.38 | KotCzarny | elaborate step by step |
| 17:21.49 | ceene | with gdb |
| 17:21.51 | KotCzarny | and how it relates to finding names |
| 17:21.54 | ceene | oh, well |
| 17:22.13 | ceene | if you go inside the zzip_file_read function |
| 17:22.15 | ceene | and step by step |
| 17:22.26 | ceene | gdb will tell you which function is being called |
| 17:22.29 | ceene | and from what library |
| 17:23.04 | ceene | it will also help you find which is the free() call that is failing and try to search which pointer is it trying to free |
| 17:23.35 | KotCzarny | if you look at the backtrace its in glibc |
| 17:23.52 | KotCzarny | zzip_file_read -> inflate(libz) -> getc(libc) |
| 17:23.59 | ceene | yep |
| 17:24.01 | ceene | true |
| 17:24.08 | KotCzarny | so it looks like some pointer going bad |
| 17:24.29 | KotCzarny | but i still dont know how to catch it |
| 17:24.46 | ceene | with the core dump |
| 17:24.53 | ceene | you should be able to go up in the backtrace |
| 17:24.57 | ceene | and see which pointer was that |
| 17:25.11 | KotCzarny | magic words i shall i use? |
| 17:25.17 | ceene | simply with up/down, list and print variable you should get most of the work done |
| 17:26.03 | KotCzarny | #4 0xb732c63d in free () from /lib/libc.so.6 |
| 17:26.03 | KotCzarny | (gdb) print |
| 17:26.03 | KotCzarny | The history is empty. |
| 17:26.22 | ceene | up a couple of times |
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| 17:26.28 | ceene | so we get to the inflate() call |
| 17:26.36 | KotCzarny | same |
| 17:26.50 | ceene | you can command it list |
| 17:26.56 | ceene | to see the source code around that |
| 17:27.01 | ceene | and see which variables come into play |
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| 17:28.44 | KotCzarny | if i share coredump would you be able to check it? |
| 17:29.00 | ceene | i'd need the source and executable too |
| 17:29.38 | KotCzarny | k |
| 17:29.52 | KotCzarny | email or some sharing site? |
| 17:30.55 | ceene | you use dropbox? |
| 17:30.58 | KotCzarny | nope |
| 17:31.29 | ceene | whichever then |
| 17:31.31 | ceene | http://www.filedropper.com/ |
| 17:31.32 | ceene | for example? |
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| 18:03.39 | mvaenskae | hm, how is this table to be interpreted? http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages |
| 18:04.20 | mvaenskae | i cannot read out what is considered part of the base system and what is still closed off |
| 18:11.56 | freemangordon | mvaenskae: does it really matter? |
| 18:12.10 | KotCzarny | freemangordon: it's his homework |
| 18:12.19 | KotCzarny | writing about n900 for school |
| 18:12.19 | ceene | lol |
| 18:12.26 | freemangordon | oh :) |
| 18:12.30 | KotCzarny | about foss and stuff |
| 18:12.34 | freemangordon | ok |
| 18:12.35 | ceene | nice homework |
| 18:12.45 | ceene | he should reverse engineer something that's closed and free that |
| 18:12.51 | ceene | now that would guarantee A+++ |
| 18:12.54 | freemangordon | :nod: |
| 18:13.57 | bencoh | freemangordon: hmm, I thought it mattered, kind of :) |
| 18:14.28 | freemangordon | bencoh: not really, if you wish full set of n900 functionality |
| 18:18.45 | mvaenskae | not homework, part of an essay i have to write for credits |
| 18:19.14 | mvaenskae | ceene: not part of the question i have to answer ;) |
| 18:19.46 | mvaenskae | and i guess that is a bit too much to ask for :D |
| 18:20.17 | ceene | one man can dream... |
| 18:20.29 | ceene | google's summer of code wouldn't pay any student to RE anything? |
| 18:21.58 | bencoh | I doubt they'd pay for Maemo work |
| 18:22.18 | bencoh | I really dont see why they'd bother :) |
| 18:23.13 | mvaenskae | freemangordon: btw, you were responsible for hd video-playback/recording, right? |
| 18:23.20 | bencoh | http://wiki.maemo.org/GSoC_2009/Projects/Integrating_Maemo_in_Open_Embedded happened in ... 2009 |
| 18:23.33 | bencoh | but hey, it's 2015 already |
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| 18:24.57 | ceene | it's quite funny that some people want to port maemo to everything and some others want to use any other distro on their n900s |
| 18:25.17 | KotCzarny | its about personal preferences |
| 18:25.29 | ceene | i'm one that would like to do both... maemo on a tablet but a full blown out debian on my n900 |
| 18:25.32 | ceene | :D |
| 18:25.32 | KotCzarny | one likes media libraries, other prefer folder/file libraries |
| 18:26.04 | KotCzarny | i treat maemo as another DE (usable and one i cant change to anything else at the moment) |
| 18:26.17 | bencoh | maemo does bring some quite good system integration |
| 18:26.49 | bencoh | hildon-desktop/mb2 is a much more usable multitasking env than anything that used to exist back then |
| 18:27.04 | bencoh | (for a touch device/phone/tablet) |
| 18:43.37 | mvaenskae | so i take it that maemo even with the cssu is not fully free, right? |
| 18:44.02 | ceene | that's correct |
| 18:44.24 | freemangordon | mvaenskae: sort of |
| 18:44.28 | mvaenskae | which parts are exactly still lacking excluding firmware on the kernel end? |
| 18:44.50 | freemangordon | lack what? |
| 18:45.04 | bencoh | actually the kernel is opensource :) |
| 18:45.22 | freemangordon | as is gst-dsp |
| 18:45.27 | bencoh | (except for firmware blobs that dont run on host cpu - like wl12xx firmware) |
| 18:46.01 | bencoh | yeah that's quite funny as well :) |
| 18:47.14 | bencoh | freemangordon: do we have the source for the DSP libs/firmware used for video decoding? |
| 18:47.19 | bencoh | (the TI stuff) |
| 18:47.59 | bencoh | (I mean the part running on the C64X) |
| 18:48.16 | freemangordon | no |
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| 18:54.30 | ceene | not so long ago, nokia has donated my school a whole set of phones, since its beginning to the latest lumia |
| 18:54.40 | ceene | there are of course one n900 and one n9 :) |
| 18:54.49 | bencoh | oooh <3 |
| 18:54.51 | ceene | all of them without having been used ever |
| 18:55.12 | ceene | if i can i'll try to take a photo of the exhibition |
| 18:55.25 | ceene | there's a glass so there are lots of reflections |
| 18:56.29 | kerio | are they actual phones though? |
| 18:56.31 | kerio | or just models? |
| 18:57.01 | ceene | they're the real thing |
| 18:57.14 | ceene | there's also a similar set of donated phones from motorola |
| 18:57.18 | ceene | but nokia is cooler |
| 18:57.22 | bencoh | :) |
| 18:57.36 | ceene | it's quite funny looking at the very first ones, that are huge, seeing then a few years of micro-phones like the 8210 |
| 18:57.50 | ceene | and then as time goes by, phone sizes start to match again those from the 90s |
| 18:57.52 | ceene | lol |
| 18:58.07 | kerio | my mom had an 8310 |
| 18:58.14 | kerio | literally survived being flung from the 4th floor |
| 18:58.22 | kerio | without any issue |
| 18:58.31 | bencoh | ceene: haha |
| 18:59.52 | bencoh | I owned both N5110 and N5510 and N900 is still heavier :)) |
| 19:00.25 | bencoh | (but smaller) |
| 19:00.25 | ceene | oh, i had a 5110 too! |
| 19:00.55 | ceene | they also have some of the communicator ones |
| 19:04.08 | KotCzarny | there is no such thing as N5510 :P its nokia 5510 |
| 19:04.22 | KotCzarny | and yes, i have this beast |
| 19:04.39 | KotCzarny | with kb leds changed to blue and screen to white leds |
| 19:05.24 | bencoh | KotCzarny: yeah right :p |
| 19:05.34 | bencoh | mine got stolen :( |
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| 19:07.00 | KotCzarny | stealing 5510? o.o |
| 19:07.06 | KotCzarny | that's huge |
| 19:07.22 | KotCzarny | and its basically 3310 with mp3 addon |
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| 19:28.41 | bencoh | they probably didnt really know what it was >_> |
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| 20:31.16 | Sicelo | frm? |
| 20:31.25 | Sicelo | sorry... |
| 20:32.17 | Sicelo | btw, 5510 happens to be very close to Nokia N-Gage (the "Classic" not QD) |
| 20:34.05 | Sicelo | both had two audio jacks, meaning you could play a midi for example on the one, and MP3 on the other simultaneously |
| 20:39.09 | KotCzarny | hmm, wasnt it because one jack was for headphones and other for control/mic ? |
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| 20:41.17 | Sicelo | oh .. ok. on N-Gage the one was for headset (so mic + control). the other was dedicated to the hardware MP3 chip. |
| 20:42.33 | KotCzarny | i think same story with n-gage because it used same headset |
| 20:42.37 | Sicelo | interesting that MS is hosting even user manual for 5510 :p |
| 20:43.39 | Sicelo | KotCzarny: i have two n-gage classic. one working. it works as i've just explained. i won't be surprised if you find the 5510 also is like that. |
| 20:43.47 | KotCzarny | uhum |
| 20:43.58 | bencoh | I dont think we had a dedicated jack for mp3 |
| 20:44.06 | KotCzarny | always wondered what blue jack was for |
| 20:44.10 | Sicelo | sucks then |
| 20:44.13 | bencoh | it was 12 years ago, but still |
| 20:44.27 | Sicelo | N-Gage does. |
| 20:44.41 | KotCzarny | mp3 was routed via black one (headphones) because i used to connect 5510 to hifi using only one jack |
| 20:44.41 | bencoh | you can check the user manual :) |
| 20:44.59 | KotCzarny | but i might be wrong and memory playing tricks |
| 20:45.12 | Sicelo | let me look (for 5510 .. which i never had). for my N-Gage I am 100% sure about it |
| 20:48.11 | Sicelo | wtf! maybe i'm misunderstanding the manual .. http://nds2.webapps.microsoft.com/files/support/apac/phones/guides/Nokia_5510_APAC_UG_EN.pdf |
| 20:48.33 | KotCzarny | which page? |
| 20:48.34 | Sicelo | check page 14, then 16 |
| 20:48.50 | Sicelo | 5510 has 3 jacks? :/ |
| 20:48.58 | KotCzarny | 2 jacks |
| 20:49.06 | KotCzarny | third is charger |
| 20:49.51 | KotCzarny | um |
| 20:49.57 | Sicelo | what are (1) and (2) on page 16? |
| 20:50.31 | KotCzarny | maybe its line-out |
| 20:50.46 | Sicelo | so 3? jacks? |
| 20:50.57 | KotCzarny | never used the one under cover |
| 20:51.14 | KotCzarny | but apparently its line-out |
| 20:51.23 | Sicelo | that's likely your dedicated one then .. like on N-Gage |
| 20:51.34 | KotCzarny | no |
| 20:51.43 | KotCzarny | headphones jack != line-out |
| 20:51.48 | KotCzarny | impedance etc |
| 20:52.10 | KotCzarny | unless internally it routed things differently when third one was connected |
| 20:52.18 | KotCzarny | if i get a chance i'll check it |
| 20:53.12 | Sicelo | i know about impendance :/ |
| 20:53.19 | Sicelo | anyway |
| 20:53.43 | Sicelo | http://www.altimobiler.dk/up/1342478383.pdf .. this one is for N-Gage. pages 14 & 15 show audio connections |
| 20:54.26 | bencoh | KotCzarny: hmm, this rings a bell |
| 20:54.34 | bencoh | (lineout vs headphone jack) |
| 20:56.18 | KotCzarny | now the only question is if things get routed differently on hp and line-out |
| 20:56.42 | KotCzarny | ie. voice and ringtones on line-out or only hp? |
| 20:56.52 | Sicelo | looks like yes, 5510 audio system was quite close to N-Gage's .. even both could record from "that" special jack |
| 20:59.21 | Sicelo | i think you could get voice calls & ringtones faintly on the the 'MP3' jack on N-Gage. But the best output was on the 'regular |
| 20:59.24 | Sicelo | <PROTECTED> |
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| 21:03.05 | Sicelo | just test, yes, ringtones do sound on 2nd (mp3) jack. but no mp3 on 'headset' jack |
| 21:03.11 | Sicelo | *tested |
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| 21:15.11 | Sicelo | i see what's going on in 5510 ... looks like the 3rd jack is line-in only. in N-Gage that was still connected via gray jack |
| 21:16.47 | Sicelo | black jack is calls on both N900 & 5510, and gray jack is MP3 (i'll say on both) .. because as KotCzarny said, one jack for external audio .. i believe you were connecting that to gray, not black |
| 21:17.00 | Sicelo | that's how it is on N-Gage |
| 21:18.39 | bencoh | we had both calls and playback on the same jack |
| 21:18.47 | bencoh | afair |
| 21:19.15 | Sicelo | i doubt. your MP3 decoding was hardware? or software? |
| 21:22.36 | Sicelo | i seem to remember stock hildon-desktop had memory leak. modified/ccsu h-d .. is anyone aware of a leak there? |
| 21:23.37 | freemangordon | Sicelo: there shouldn't be any leaks remaining in cssu h-d |
| 21:23.45 | freemangordon | why do you think there is one? |
| 21:25.22 | Sicelo | few days ago i reported extreme slowness at times on my thumb n900. today it was quite bad again. htop/syslog not showing anything in particular, but n900 definitely slow. then i thought to killall h-d .. seemed to be better :) |
| 21:25.52 | Sicelo | will confirm in next few days though, because unfortunately i had to get on a short drive, and my battery died along the way |
| 21:26.48 | freemangordon | Sicelo: what was h-d memory usage before and after you killed it? |
| 21:28.00 | Sicelo | tbh i don't know. will keep better logs/data next time. after killing h-d though it really seemed to be much better. |
| 21:28.08 | freemangordon | ok |
| 21:29.06 | Sicelo | as far as widgets go, i have only fmrdsnotify, music player widget (stock),and calendar home widget |
| 21:29.15 | Sicelo | unless one of them is 'evil' |
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| 21:37.43 | bencoh | (all widgets are :°) |
| 21:38.36 | Sicelo | :( |
| 21:39.25 | Sicelo | i need fmrdsnotify as it seems to be the only way to make music player show track information on my car's radio. unless i'm missing something |
| 21:39.41 | Sicelo | the others i could easily live without |
| 21:46.37 | sixwheeledbeast^ | I believe you should use dsmetool -k to kill h-d |
| 21:47.25 | sixwheeledbeast^ | also things could leak into h-d, python widgetz etc.. |
| 21:47.55 | Sicelo | you're right about dsmetool. didn't think about it at the time |
| 21:48.04 | sixwheeledbeast^ | maybe rdsnotify? |
| 21:49.02 | Sicelo | that would be a pity. i sometimes need it |
| 21:49.46 | sixwheeledbeast^ | no evidence but I found that my h-d issues where caused from other extras packages |
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| 22:40.51 | jonwil | Hopefully today is the day I finally finish my work on the connectivity subsystem on the N900 |
| 22:41.21 | jonwil | and can make my forum post with all the information one would need in order to rip that subsystem out and replace it with something new. |
| 22:52.59 | Sicelo | jonwil: all of icd2? or wifi bits? |
| 22:53.08 | jonwil | all of ICD2 |
| 22:53.23 | jonwil | it was actually easier to document all the things you need to rip out all of ICD2 |
| 22:53.38 | kerio | lol |
| 22:53.40 | jonwil | than the things you need to rip out just the WiFi bits |
| 22:54.04 | Sicelo | interesting |
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| 22:59.37 | jonwil | the good news is that the interface used to talk to the cellular modem GPRS bits is fully documented thanks to Nokia (the documentation for it is in the doc bits of the csd-gprs package that goes on the phone) |
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