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| 00:55.08 | mvaenskae | pardon for the slow response sixwheeledbeast^; i was wondering what sort of license maemo is given out (GPLv3, LGPL, Apache, ...) |
| 00:55.26 | mvaenskae | and if there was a reference showing what parts are open and which are closed source |
| 01:18.00 | jonwil | http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages and http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/ are what you want |
| 01:18.15 | jonwil | The first one is a list of whats closed |
| 01:18.29 | jonwil | with links to some pieces that were closed but are now open via various methods |
| 01:18.42 | jonwil | and the second contains all the open stuff |
| 01:18.55 | jonwil | i.e. everything officially opened by Nokia |
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| 04:42.37 | Gear | hey blue maemo doesn't work with the keyboard |
| 04:42.56 | Gear | is there a fix for this? the wiki has none that work |
| 04:55.12 | Gear | hey, the hardware keyboard isn't working with lbluemaemo, does anyone know why? any help greatly appreciated |
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| 06:47.52 | KotCzarny | you can remap keys |
| 06:47.55 | KotCzarny | ~remap |
| 06:48.00 | KotCzarny | hmm |
| 06:48.02 | KotCzarny | ~ping |
| 06:48.02 | infobot | ~pong |
| 06:48.11 | KotCzarny | ~keyremap |
| 06:48.11 | infobot | rumour has it, keyremap is http://wiki.maemo.org/Remapping_keyboard |
| 06:48.27 | KotCzarny | ahm, you mean bluetooth |
| 06:48.35 | KotCzarny | also, he left |
| 06:48.42 | KotCzarny | also, good morning |
| 06:51.56 | Vajb | pity that he left |
| 06:52.27 | Vajb | i could have solved his problem probably |
| 06:53.09 | Vajb | meant Gear and bluemaemo keyb problem |
| 06:53.31 | Vajb | oh yes, also good morning |
| 06:57.45 | Vajb | ppl should realise that this is just irc not helpdesk. Although one has to queue for helpdesk call too. |
| 07:01.41 | KotCzarny | some channels have nice info in topic about that |
| 07:01.48 | KotCzarny | i think #alsa is one |
| 07:02.04 | KotCzarny | nope |
| 07:02.52 | KotCzarny | ~ask |
| 07:02.52 | infobot | Questions in the channel should be specific, informative, complete, concise, and on-topic. Don't ask if you can ask a question first. Don't ask if a person is there; just ask what you intended to ask them. Better questions more frequently yield better answers. We are all here voluntarily or against our will. |
| 07:03.21 | KotCzarny | there should be also note about long waiting time |
| 07:03.43 | Vajb | hmm one way could be to pop up with question and then read the logs if there was answer later |
| 07:04.01 | KotCzarny | assuming one realises there are public logs |
| 07:04.21 | Vajb | "we proses your request as as we feel like" |
| 07:04.26 | Vajb | eh |
| 07:04.33 | Vajb | as soon as we... |
| 07:05.14 | Vajb | lets just assume they do, for my thought sake :) |
| 07:05.23 | KotCzarny | nooope. :) |
| 07:05.40 | Vajb | :P |
| 07:06.19 | KotCzarny | remember that many questions are already answered on wiki/talk |
| 07:06.49 | KotCzarny | and if people cant google the answers, you think they would google the logs? |
| 07:06.56 | Vajb | well if one can't google... |
| 07:07.11 | KotCzarny | is there such person? |
| 07:07.28 | Vajb | i think they r growing breed |
| 07:08.00 | Vajb | if it's not on your facebook newsfeed then it can't be found |
| 07:08.11 | KotCzarny | yeah, illiteracy is coming quick, communication in pictograms is on top again |
| 07:08.25 | Vajb | yup |
| 07:09.05 | Vajb | i guess egyptians had it all figured out and then someone just went berserk and invented letters |
| 07:09.35 | KotCzarny | i wonder what was the level of understanding those pictograms in their times |
| 07:09.48 | Vajb | woders when we start building first pyramid of new era |
| 07:09.49 | KotCzarny | ie. if regular person was able to read them |
| 07:10.03 | KotCzarny | vajb: we do, they are called skyscrapers now |
| 07:10.26 | Vajb | oh i thought of pyramid freuds |
| 07:10.33 | Vajb | scams |
| 07:10.39 | Vajb | how ever it's spelled |
| 07:11.09 | KotCzarny | fraud |
| 07:11.28 | Vajb | i doubt that slaves had energy to try reading after work |
| 07:11.35 | KotCzarny | but pyramids werent fraud, they were monuments for their notables |
| 07:11.36 | Vajb | oh yes thx! |
| 07:11.54 | Vajb | i meant modern pyramid frauds |
| 07:12.10 | Vajb | like wincapita |
| 07:12.23 | KotCzarny | ahm, its called pyramid scheme |
| 07:12.28 | Vajb | oh |
| 07:12.47 | KotCzarny | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pyramid_scheme |
| 07:12.48 | Vajb | just did literal translation from my native :) |
| 07:13.17 | Vajb | but anyway these are the pyramids of our time |
| 07:20.31 | KotCzarny | how i love random library breakups |
| 07:20.58 | KotCzarny | i've changed something in oscp not related to zziplib and now i get zziplib segfaults according to gdb |
| 07:26.05 | Vajb | i forgot the golden rule |
| 07:26.21 | Vajb | "don't fix it, if it's not broken" |
| 07:26.38 | Vajb | hmm meant you not me... |
| 07:26.40 | KotCzarny | i was adding features to oscp |
| 07:26.57 | Vajb | :) |
| 07:27.13 | KotCzarny | and i didnt touch zzip related functions |
| 07:27.27 | KotCzarny | and as i said, it segfaults in zziplib not in oscp |
| 07:28.03 | KotCzarny | http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=dXKDZtMd |
| 07:28.09 | Vajb | it is some sort of program meridian |
| 07:28.18 | Vajb | as in acupncture |
| 07:28.33 | KotCzarny | last oscp function is #3, 2 is zziplib, 1 is libz and 0 is libc |
| 07:28.35 | Maxdamantus | adding features is a sure way to make it harder to ensure correctness. |
| 07:29.05 | Maxdamantus | `rm -rf *` will remove all bugs. |
| 07:29.12 | Vajb | hmm about features i remember reading the princible of linux programs |
| 07:29.15 | KotCzarny | but will leave you with 1 big one bug |
| 07:29.20 | KotCzarny | 'system is unusable' |
| 07:29.33 | Vajb | "make them do one thing, but just better than anyone" |
| 07:29.35 | Maxdamantus | linux or unix? |
| 07:29.37 | KotCzarny | unix |
| 07:29.46 | KotCzarny | but linux adopted that philosophy too |
| 07:29.48 | Maxdamantus | That's not the unix one. |
| 07:30.07 | Maxdamantus | unix is make things that do single things, well. |
| 07:30.16 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 07:30.24 | KotCzarny | similar |
| 07:30.28 | Vajb | maybe i just phrase it incorrectly |
| 07:30.28 | KotCzarny | and could be lost in translation |
| 07:30.34 | KotCzarny | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unix_philosophy#Do_One_Thing_and_Do_It_Well |
| 07:30.39 | Maxdamantus | Maybe. |
| 07:30.42 | KotCzarny | DOTADIW |
| 07:31.02 | Maxdamantus | but TIMTOWTDI. |
| 07:31.20 | Vajb | ylm |
| 07:31.25 | Vajb | you lost me |
| 07:31.38 | KotCzarny | ~google TIMTOWTDI |
| 07:31.45 | KotCzarny | ~g TIMTOWTDI |
| 07:31.49 | KotCzarny | ~wiki TIMTOWTDI |
| 07:32.35 | KotCzarny | and yes, in *nix you can do things in many ways |
| 07:33.13 | Humpelstilzchen | there is only one true linux way, the systemd one |
| 07:33.19 | Maxdamantus | actually, at a high level there aren't too many ways to do it. |
| 07:33.34 | Maxdamantus | well, that is. |
| 07:33.56 | KotCzarny | define high level |
| 07:34.06 | KotCzarny | awk/sed or higher? |
| 07:34.30 | Maxdamantus | At a level involving user interaction or reasoning. |
| 07:34.55 | Maxdamantus | (reasoning being important for making things work in alternative ways, like over a network) |
| 07:35.11 | KotCzarny | define user |
| 07:35.18 | KotCzarny | is hacker an user? |
| 07:35.25 | Maxdamantus | Yes. |
| 07:35.31 | KotCzarny | then there are many ways |
| 07:35.32 | Maxdamantus | a user. |
| 07:35.37 | KotCzarny | an |
| 07:35.52 | KotCzarny | you use an before consonants or whatever its called (aeouiy) |
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| 07:36.16 | KotCzarny | but might be additional rules for that too |
| 07:37.25 | KotCzarny | https://www.quora.com/Is-it-an-user-or-a-user |
| 07:37.40 | KotCzarny | you are right in this case, a user |
| 07:38.11 | Vajb | i get it now |
| 07:38.32 | Vajb | it could sarcastic comment also "oh you did it like that" |
| 07:38.39 | Vajb | could be* |
| 07:43.46 | KotCzarny | drat |
| 07:44.01 | KotCzarny | im baffled, cant see where is the culprit of the segv |
| 07:45.04 | Maxdamantus | You generally use "an" before vowels, but it doesn't have much to do with letters. |
| 07:45.17 | KotCzarny | yeah, but its the actual sound that matters |
| 07:45.26 | Maxdamantus | yes, not the letter. |
| 07:45.35 | Maxdamantus | "user" starts with a semivowel, not a vowel. |
| 07:45.47 | KotCzarny | english is broken by design |
| 07:46.55 | KotCzarny | zziplib opens the archive, finds the file, and fails on extraction |
| 07:47.33 | Maxdamantus | Music players shouldn't mess with zip files. |
| 07:47.46 | Maxdamantus | The user should mount the zip file as a read-only filesystem. |
| 07:47.52 | KotCzarny | unless compressing .mod files save 40-60% of the space |
| 07:48.24 | KotCzarny | and unless you prefer 1 file instead of few thousands |
| 07:48.52 | Maxdamantus | What's the difference? |
| 07:48.58 | KotCzarny | and zziplib has nice open() wrappers |
| 07:49.00 | Maxdamantus | You have thousands of files inside the zip file. |
| 07:49.19 | Maxdamantus | So does fuse-zip. |
| 07:49.39 | Maxdamantus | with that, you use exactly the same open() function to access the files. |
| 07:50.01 | KotCzarny | yes, but requires user to install fuse-zip and mount things |
| 07:50.11 | KotCzarny | with zziplib you just open archives as regular dirs |
| 07:50.40 | KotCzarny | and you usuall dont need those .mods for anything other than music player |
| 07:50.47 | Maxdamantus | Does it also let you open squashfs filesystems, or do you still need to mount those?\ |
| 07:50.48 | KotCzarny | *usually |
| 07:50.59 | KotCzarny | i dont use squashfs |
| 07:51.04 | Maxdamantus | i dont use zip |
| 07:51.13 | KotCzarny | people on internet do |
| 07:51.21 | KotCzarny | most zip archives are zips |
| 07:51.26 | Maxdamantus | If I want to compress a directory, I'll use squashfs. |
| 07:51.29 | KotCzarny | s/zip/mod/ |
| 07:52.08 | KotCzarny | mc can enter zips, but cant enter swuashfs (without adding a helper) |
| 07:52.10 | Maxdamantus | (compress a directory (or file even) so that it can be randomly accessed) |
| 07:52.22 | Maxdamantus | Yeah, mc is a bit silly. |
| 07:52.27 | KotCzarny | windows can use zips, but hardly squashfs |
| 07:52.53 | Maxdamantus | That's what happens when you create software that has all these features. |
| 07:53.06 | Maxdamantus | It becomes difficult to do things it wasn't designed specifically to do. |
| 07:54.13 | KotCzarny | still, i wrote a player that will do things other won't, and its mainly for me (but i shared the product in case some other people would have similar need) |
| 08:01.34 | sixwheeledbeast^ | google will have to adapt to search for what you are thinking, a scary thought. |
| 08:01.59 | KotCzarny | swb: isnt it what it does actually? |
| 08:02.09 | KotCzarny | ie. search history |
| 08:02.21 | sixwheeledbeast^ | without any physical input |
| 08:02.33 | KotCzarny | too many thoughts |
| 08:02.41 | KotCzarny | and much worse in case of the women |
| 08:02.56 | KotCzarny | they think about multiple topics at the same time |
| 08:03.13 | Maxdamantus | Sounds like me. |
| 08:03.47 | KotCzarny | maxd, but the differnce being men can become 'empty boxes' ie. stop thinking and just relax, women cant |
| 08:03.56 | KotCzarny | they have unending buzz in their heads |
| 08:04.21 | Maxdamantus | That just sounds sexist. |
| 08:04.33 | KotCzarny | nope, thats psychology |
| 08:04.35 | sixwheeledbeast^ | Well maybe an option to select which thoughts, so the contains of your mind aren't tracked all over the net. |
| 08:05.12 | Maxdamantus | Like how men are just overly violent. |
| 08:05.19 | Maxdamantus | Just psychology, meh. |
| 08:05.25 | sixwheeledbeast^ | I haven't relaxed in 8 years or so, haven't the time |
| 08:05.26 | KotCzarny | nope, that's physiology |
| 08:05.32 | KotCzarny | (hormones etc) |
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| 08:07.45 | KotCzarny | also, knowing how stuff works isnt sexist, sexist is adding personal (unrelated) adjectives |
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| 08:36.33 | sixwheeledbeast^ | Apparently air conditioning is sexist... |
| 08:46.31 | KotCzarny | everything could be sexist if you are crazy enough |
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| 08:57.24 | KotCzarny | hmm, code snippet cut out of the program works standalone |
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| 09:19.39 | Maxdamantus | Might as well use it standalone then. |
| 09:19.57 | KotCzarny | no, it means there is a bug in my code, and proper way is to find that bug |
| 09:22.01 | Maxdamantus | But it works outside, so might as well keep it there. |
| 09:22.14 | Maxdamantus | also makes dependencies easier to deal with. |
| 09:22.36 | KotCzarny | oscp has almost no dependencies |
| 09:22.37 | Maxdamantus | means your program doesn't even depend on things like zziplib or whatever. |
| 09:23.29 | KotCzarny | http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=dRNn4VPU |
| 09:26.30 | Maxdamantus | Do you load things using dlopen directly? |
| 09:26.41 | KotCzarny | nope |
| 09:27.34 | Maxdamantus | What does it use to decode certain audio formats? |
| 09:28.05 | KotCzarny | http://pastebin.com/raw.php?i=SCm1t8D1 |
| 09:29.25 | Maxdamantus | So how does it invoke functions from libav? |
| 09:29.43 | KotCzarny | static libs |
| 09:29.56 | KotCzarny | ls -l oscp |
| 09:29.57 | KotCzarny | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 5607056 Oct 31 10:29 oscp |
| 09:30.01 | Maxdamantus | Ah, so you're basically just hiding the dependencies from ldd |
| 09:30.05 | KotCzarny | and 2/3 of that is song lengths db |
| 09:30.09 | KotCzarny | nope |
| 09:30.26 | KotCzarny | not hiding, its not loading anything from the os apart system libs |
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| 09:31.45 | Maxdamantus | Yes, so the dependencies are just not handled by the dynamic loader. |
| 09:31.53 | Maxdamantus | They still exist. |
| 09:32.14 | KotCzarny | dependncies are handled by builder, user doesnt care (and doesnt have to resolve any deps) |
| 09:32.28 | Sicelo | lol |
| 09:32.39 | Maxdamantus | Users sometimes have to care. |
| 09:32.53 | KotCzarny | sure, and thats how debian got into dependency hell |
| 09:33.29 | KotCzarny | libs depending on tens of other libs 'just in case someone might need that tiny feature' |
| 09:33.37 | Maxdamantus | I had to compile kiwix-serve on my N900 when I was in the middle of nowhere because their static ARM binaries were too big to download over my limited GPRS connection. |
| 09:33.59 | Maxdamantus | and because the bash script I wrote instead was too slow and wasteful. |
| 09:39.18 | KotCzarny | i guess if i had to include all those libs as system dependencies it would be much bigger download than 5megs |
| 09:40.47 | Maxdamantus | Not if they're already likely to be installed. |
| 09:40.53 | KotCzarny | unlikely |
| 09:40.57 | Maxdamantus | libav? |
| 09:41.12 | KotCzarny | not available (only old libav-mini 0.7 in extras-devel) |
| 09:42.26 | Maxdamantus | by libav I mean libavcodec, not necessarily the "libav" project. |
| 09:42.42 | Maxdamantus | hm, or was the project called avlib? can't remember. |
| 09:42.43 | KotCzarny | http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/liba/libav-mini/ |
| 09:43.21 | KotCzarny | its missing libavformat apparently (or it could be included in avcoded at that time) |
| 09:43.27 | Maxdamantus | somehow has libavcodec52-4:0.5+svn20090706-5 in Maemo. |
| 09:43.35 | KotCzarny | 2009 is old |
| 09:43.49 | Maxdamantus | Yes, that's an issue with Maemo. |
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| 09:44.12 | Maxdamantus | That's basically another case of this stupid dependency crap. |
| 09:44.27 | Maxdamantus | It's not based on a well-supported system like Debian. |
| 09:44.31 | KotCzarny | so, you see now why i chose to include libs statically? |
| 09:44.44 | KotCzarny | i wouldnt mind if the system was up to date |
| 09:45.19 | KotCzarny | but now, i can have recent libs on my n900 |
| 09:46.09 | KotCzarny | and i use only oscp as an audio player, so i dont really need all those libs in the system anyway |
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| 10:00.46 | mvaenskae | hm, where has the gitorious repo gone? D: |
| 10:02.32 | Maxdamantus | Which one? |
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| 10:03.38 | Maxdamantus | I have a feeling there isn't a central place with backups of the relevant ones. |
| 10:05.15 | mvaenskae | maemo |
| 10:07.27 | Maxdamantus | gtk? hildon? hildon-desktop? hildon-status-menu? libdsme? libhildondesktop? libiphb? mce-dev? osso-xterm? ke-recv? |
| 10:08.26 | mvaenskae | Maxdamantus: there is no single source available as is usally the case? |
| 10:10.43 | mvaenskae | i am writing an article for my lecture on open source mobiles and thought about including maemo as it is quite different from all other mobile OSes and i still have my n900 (albeit it has been gone unused for quite some time :/) |
| 10:14.08 | Maxdamantus | There's https://web.archive.org/web/20141228121417/https://maemo.gitorious.org/maemo-af at least, but you probably can't access most of the code there. |
| 10:19.06 | Sicelo | they've been mirrored .. ask in #maemo-ssu |
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| 10:34.59 | mvaenskae | Maxdamantus: thanks for the link; so i take it the sources are not easily available anymore for most of the project? |
| 10:41.11 | Maxdamantus | I thought the git forms weren't (Sicelo suggested that they've been mirrored .. somewhere) |
| 10:41.39 | Maxdamantus | the sources can otherwise generally be found on the community package repositories. |
| 10:42.01 | Ashley` | _ |
| 10:43.21 | Maxdamantus | I happen to have the git repositories for the projects I listed above, because just happened to clone them at some point. |
| 10:48.06 | KotCzarny | mvaenskae: do you listen to music? |
| 10:48.07 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 10:48.24 | KotCzarny | (i might find few uses for your n900 if you do) |
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| 11:28.34 | mvaenskae | KotCzarny: i have a few vague ideas in my head about the n900 but i need to first get all my other stuff sorted, mostly studies and all the related projects D: |
| 11:28.47 | KotCzarny | you didnt answer |
| 11:29.44 | mvaenskae | i do listen to music, not right now though; yes i did already have an mpd-server running connecting via reverse-ssh to it and have the n900 play music via the internet streamed from my own machine if that is what you are after ;) |
| 11:30.34 | mvaenskae | on a side-note, what parts of maemo 5 have not been developed by nokia but another party and are part of the flashables? :) |
| 11:30.48 | KotCzarny | well, i was going to advertise my player to you (it has ncurses local interface and networked controller. also works both on pc linux and n900, so one could start core on one and control from another) |
| 11:31.31 | KotCzarny | mvaenskae: for maemo related question, does glibc count? |
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| 11:32.25 | mvaenskae | it does, i am mostly wondering who the major contributors were back in the day as i want to mention them by name in a report i am writing on open source mobile systems |
| 11:33.15 | mvaenskae | what is the network-controller part about on the player? :) |
| 11:36.28 | KotCzarny | i guess you can grep changelogs from source packages |
| 11:37.19 | mvaenskae | how does hildon factor into maemo? i never wondered up until now who developed that part |
| 11:37.35 | KotCzarny | mvaenskae: core can open listening connection where anything can connect to it (telnet, some script, gui) and issue commands as LOAD2 file, STOP, PAUSE etc |
| 11:38.00 | KotCzarny | ~hildon |
| 11:38.00 | infobot | i guess hildon is crappy |
| 11:38.03 | KotCzarny | :) |
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| 11:40.10 | KotCzarny | ~liskeys hildon |
| 11:40.14 | KotCzarny | ~listkeys hildon |
| 11:43.43 | sixwheeledbeast^ | ~wiki hildon |
| 11:46.27 | KotCzarny | swb: you've broken wikipedia! |
| 11:46.47 | sixwheeledbeast^ | m |
| 11:46.52 | sixwheeledbeast^ | ~wiki hildon |
| 11:47.03 | sixwheeledbeast^ | not quite |
| 11:47.21 | KotCzarny | ~wiki nokia hildon |
| 11:47.28 | sixwheeledbeast^ | one man does not a dos attack make |
| 11:48.02 | sixwheeledbeast^ | well one search anyway |
| 11:48.22 | KotCzarny | mvaenskae: oscp's remote protocol is really simple: http://master.dl.sourceforge.net/project/oscp/binaries/remote.txt |
| 11:49.12 | KotCzarny | ~wiki nokia hildon |
| 11:49.38 | mvaenskae | poor bot :( |
| 11:49.48 | mvaenskae | ~botsnack |
| 11:49.48 | infobot | mvaenskae: aw, gee |
| 11:50.21 | mvaenskae | may i ask how come the hildon-foundation is mentioned as the developer of maemo in the wiki article of maemo 5? |
| 11:50.57 | KotCzarny | nokia gave hildon to hi-fo |
| 11:54.14 | mvaenskae | but hildon != maemo, right? |
| 11:58.15 | sixwheeledbeast^ | hildon is the framework and DE for Maemo |
| 12:00.35 | sixwheeledbeast^ | nokia gave the maemo name to hifo |
| 12:00.51 | sixwheeledbeast^ | and maemo.org |
| 12:01.01 | mvaenskae | when was that? |
| 12:03.08 | sixwheeledbeast^ | it took ages of organising, last year about this time |
| 12:03.21 | KotCzarny | http://maemo.org/community/board/ |
| 12:03.24 | KotCzarny | seems 2012ish |
| 12:03.28 | sixwheeledbeast^ | http://hildonfoundation.org/agreement-between-nokia-corporation-and-hildon-foundation-announced/ |
| 12:04.38 | mvaenskae | thanks for both links, that helps me show the current setup of maemo as well |
| 12:04.53 | mvaenskae | i find it important to show how the community can keep a project alive and well :) |
| 12:06.17 | buZz | mvaenskae: probably a lot better than if google stopped developing android ;) |
| 12:06.42 | sixwheeledbeast^ | since then well eV? and other politics has happened. Too complex to keep on top of with little time. |
| 12:07.01 | sixwheeledbeast^ | imo |
| 12:07.58 | KotCzarny | http://maemo.org/community/maemo-community/ |
| 12:08.03 | KotCzarny | more board articles |
| 12:13.47 | mvaenskae | buZz: i see google's android (which i shall call googledroid henceforth) as a double-edged sword; sure, it's nice having a software-giant flex its muscles and employ great devs to create a nice system, but they are still an ad-company :/ |
| 12:14.07 | mvaenskae | i have a feeling as if android is more and more becoming ios like |
| 12:14.18 | mvaenskae | i really miss maemo :( |
| 12:14.25 | buZz | mvaenskae: imho its just proprietary |
| 12:14.34 | mvaenskae | i just wish there was more up to date hardware for maemo |
| 12:14.41 | buZz | neo900? |
| 12:14.41 | mvaenskae | that is affordable :/ |
| 12:14.46 | buZz | ah :) |
| 12:14.58 | mvaenskae | i cannot invest that much into the neo900 sadly as much as i wished :( |
| 12:15.31 | mvaenskae | it will eat too much of a hole into my finances :( |
| 12:15.41 | buZz | ah well, who needs money |
| 12:15.42 | buZz | :P |
| 12:15.44 | KotCzarny | um, if you dont need www browser, n900 can do pretty much |
| 12:15.59 | KotCzarny | (well, it can even do www browsing, you just have to disable mem cache) |
| 12:16.31 | mvaenskae | the browser has become more and more important to me as i usually look stuff up while i am on the go and want to read up on some of the stuff that spins in my head :) |
| 12:17.18 | KotCzarny | anything less than ~7" is too small for comfortable web browsing imo |
| 12:17.23 | mvaenskae | i will likely start my n900 again this winter and see to having it set up properly |
| 12:17.44 | KotCzarny | mvaenskae: n900 is a very nice linux phone |
| 12:17.49 | mvaenskae | i can browse on my current phone the web decently |
| 12:18.16 | buZz | i have good eyesight, so 5" is fine for me |
| 12:18.22 | buZz | hell, even 3" works well for webbrowsing |
| 12:18.53 | mvaenskae | nexus 5 that is; it does outperform the n900 in a lot of fields except for openness and the n900 suits my ideology much more |
| 12:19.23 | mvaenskae | that's why i'll give it another go; i just gotta find somewhere a new battery for it |
| 12:22.09 | mvaenskae | and get my soldering up on par; i have a feeling the "bios battery" (iirc that's a supercap) is dead D: |
| 12:22.49 | KotCzarny | ~battery |
| 12:22.49 | infobot | rumour has it, polarcell is http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/390402445382 BL-5J Replacement |
| 12:23.03 | KotCzarny | cheap and tested by community |
| 12:23.23 | KotCzarny | ~pupbat |
| 12:23.26 | KotCzarny | ~pupbatt |
| 12:23.59 | KotCzarny | ~pupbattery |
| 12:23.59 | KotCzarny | ~listkeys pupbat |
| 12:24.04 | KotCzarny | ~listkeys battery |
| 12:24.31 | KotCzarny | ~listkeys bupbat |
| 12:24.39 | KotCzarny | ~bupbat |
| 12:24.40 | infobot | bupbat is probably use the capacitive type, LiIon are breaking during 12 months, or http://www.digikey.de/product-detail/de/PAS414HR-VG1/587-2157-1-ND/1959153, or https://hbe-shop.de/Art-2112777-TAIYO-YUDEN-PAS414HR-VA5R-KONDENSATOR006F-33V-STAKED-COIN, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90864 |
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| 13:09.10 | Sicelo | 14:15 < KotCzarny> (well, it can even do www browsing, you just have to disable mem cache) |
| 13:09.16 | Sicelo | meaning? |
| 13:28.33 | KotCzarny | sicelo: rendering works fine in most browsers available on n900 until you start swapping |
| 13:28.55 | KotCzarny | some browsers have configurable memory cache (ie. links2) |
| 13:29.10 | KotCzarny | and i wonder if microb would honor mem cache config |
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| 14:10.43 | timclassic | I'm about to run ./flash-it-all.sh... do I need to run this from a particular filesystem on the N900? |
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| 14:12.23 | timclassic | Ignore me, let me search for docs first. |
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| 14:21.21 | timclassic | My question was invalid anyway. |
| 14:36.47 | KotCzarny | timclassic: yes, it unpacks flasher binary which has to be executable (so no noexec partitions) |
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| 16:15.29 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | "firmware" see ~tabletsdev ~combined ~emmc ~flasher sdk: ~sb | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |
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| 16:19.41 | krnlyng | hi, i want to install git on my new n900 but it fails because of some missing packages: https://bpaste.net/show/0fd602184453 |
| 16:19.44 | krnlyng | what do i do? |
| 16:20.40 | KotCzarny | messed packages, try installing those dependencies to see what the blocker is |
| 16:21.12 | krnlyng | KotCzarny: https://bpaste.net/show/3c1c418888e7 |
| 16:22.22 | krnlyng | perl is also not installable for the same reason as perl-modules |
| 16:22.43 | KotCzarny | what repos you have? |
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| 16:24.01 | krnlyng | KotCzarny: the default ones + extras-devel fremantle-1.3 |
| 16:25.28 | KotCzarny | hmm |
| 16:27.32 | KotCzarny | and what is the reason for perl-modules? |
| 16:27.39 | KotCzarny | ahm, k |
| 16:28.14 | KotCzarny | i assume you've already tried apt-get update and apt-get install -f ? |
| 16:32.50 | KotCzarny | also, can you disable extras-devel, update and try installing perl again? |
| 16:37.13 | krnlyng | KotCzarny: yes i have |
| 16:37.14 | krnlyng | KotCzarny: https://bpaste.net/show/4ade363dfe68 |
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| 17:03.18 | mvaenskae | hm, my device runs, but i cannot flash it, no suitable device found following the Linux PC instruction here: https://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware |
| 17:03.26 | KotCzarny | ~flashing |
| 17:03.27 | infobot | i heard maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware, or - on linux PC - download&extract http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz, cd into it, do sudo ./flash-it-all.sh |
| 17:03.33 | KotCzarny | download, unpack, run |
| 17:03.42 | mvaenskae | or is the battery really required to be 100% full? |
| 17:03.52 | KotCzarny | yes, you need charged battery |
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| 17:21.33 | mvaenskae | i will either give it a night to charge then or buy a new one from amazon :) |
| 17:22.28 | KotCzarny | buy polarcell baterries |
| 17:22.31 | KotCzarny | they are good |
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| 17:22.52 | KotCzarny | and you shouldnt charge for ~3h, its not going to do much |
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| 21:04.00 | Sicelo | pity opera mobile doesn't support socks5 proxies |
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| 21:13.18 | bencoh | it doesnt? |
| 21:19.17 | Sicelo | yes |
| 21:20.48 | Sicelo | what i do when i need to is start the socks5 proxy (ssh), run polipo http proxy and point it to already running socks5 proxy. opera mobile can work with HTTP(S) proxy |
| 21:21.31 | Jack64 | hey guys, so what's the easiest way to make a GUI app on the N900? not counting ncurses :P |
| 21:21.50 | KotCzarny | pygtk |
| 21:22.03 | Jack64 | googles |
| 21:22.07 | KotCzarny | ~pygtk |
| 21:22.12 | infobot | grab it here ftp://ftp.daa.com.au/pub/james/python/ |
| 21:22.12 | KotCzarny | ~ping |
| 21:22.12 | infobot | ~pong |
| 21:22.20 | Jack64 | thanks KotCzarny :) |
| 21:22.33 | KotCzarny | jack64: just grab some example |
| 21:22.55 | KotCzarny | easiest way to create app in new env is to modify existing one |
| 21:23.05 | Jack64 | yep, that's my plan =) |
| 21:23.13 | Jack64 | got a hello world link handy? |
| 21:23.33 | Jack64 | btw, I can code this on my laptop and just scp it over to the N900 right? |
| 21:24.02 | KotCzarny | you can ssh to n900 and create it directly |
| 21:24.10 | KotCzarny | install some editor (mc for example) |
| 21:24.16 | Jack64 | I like nano =) |
| 21:24.27 | KotCzarny | but, you can make it on desktop pc |
| 21:24.35 | KotCzarny | then just fix incompatibilities |
| 21:24.53 | KotCzarny | maemo has old libs |
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| 21:25.11 | Jack64 | but it's on maemo? |
| 21:25.15 | KotCzarny | yes |
| 21:25.19 | Jack64 | so just apt-get install ? |
| 21:25.28 | KotCzarny | in fact i wrote complete audio player gui in pygtk |
| 21:25.30 | bencoh | something along tat line yes |
| 21:25.37 | Luke-Jr | stabs GTK |
| 21:25.41 | Jack64 | nice =) |
| 21:25.44 | bencoh | stabs python |
| 21:26.12 | KotCzarny | jack64, apt-get install oscp (it will install pygtk as a dep) |
| 21:26.28 | KotCzarny | and ui will be in /opt/oscp/bin/oscp-remote.py |
| 21:27.13 | bencoh | MEH :D |
| 21:27.17 | KotCzarny | ;) |
| 21:27.21 | bencoh | seriously. |
| 21:27.36 | KotCzarny | its quite complete example |
| 21:27.43 | KotCzarny | with many n900 specific hacks |
| 21:28.05 | Jack64 | awesome, thanks =) |
| 21:28.34 | Jack64 | bencoh: don't stab python ! it's awesome .. |
| 21:29.28 | Sicelo | really? |
| 21:29.41 | Jack64 | well, I like it.. |
| 21:29.47 | bencoh | Jack64: uhoh dont get me started on this :)) |
| 21:29.57 | bencoh | anyway, feel free to write in it if you want :) |
| 21:30.19 | Jack64 | bencoh: just out of curiousity, I'd like to know some of your gripes with it |
| 21:30.33 | Jack64 | I'm not a fanboy, I just like it |
| 21:31.42 | bencoh | indent/whitespace coding, syntactic ""sugar"", bignum issues for a start |
| 21:32.14 | Jack64 | indent/whitespace coding is a matter of personal prefernce IMHO |
| 21:32.20 | bencoh | maybe |
| 21:32.40 | Jack64 | what's syntactic ""sugar"" ? |
| 21:33.22 | bencoh | all the syntax abuse |
| 21:34.16 | Jack64 | e.g. ? |
| 21:34.30 | Jack64 | I need an example cause I think it's pretty non-intrusive |
| 21:35.58 | bencoh | I remember some horrible stuff with lists |
| 21:36.35 | Jack64 | huh.. ok |
| 21:37.29 | Jack64 | KotCzarny: what do you have in your /etc/apt/sources.list ? |
| 21:37.36 | KotCzarny | ~maemo-repos |
| 21:37.36 | infobot | i heard maemo-repos is http://wiki.maemo.org/Repository#List_of_Maemo_repositories |
| 21:38.33 | Jack64 | thanks again |
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| 21:39.54 | Jack64 | hmm I keep getting Couldn't find package oscp |
| 21:43.36 | KotCzarny | its in extras-devel |
| 21:44.50 | Jack64 | got it :) |
| 21:49.42 | Jack64 | wow that's a 2k line example :P |
| 21:50.41 | KotCzarny | told you, quite complete |
| 21:51.07 | KotCzarny | first thing you need is at the bottom |
| 21:52.19 | Jack64 | yea, I got that |
| 21:52.19 | Jack64 | <PROTECTED> |
| 21:57.52 | KotCzarny | and second is some imports at the top |
| 22:12.44 | Jack64 | hmm it's gonna be a challenge to make it orientation-responsive =) |
| 22:14.39 | KotCzarny | you will probably have to listen to dbus |
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| 22:19.35 | Jack64 | KotCzarny: yep |
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