IRC log for #maemo on 20150927

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04:03.25MaxdamantusRegarding the registers file again: https://vcs.maemo.org/git/?p=kernel-power;a=blob;f=kernel-power-2.6.28/debian/patches/bq27x00-sysfs-registers.diff;h=3f0ac979e4dfc191fa0321e15a0d7f136b1400d2;hb=d40aed045abdfa257a112079efe7e4a03d9de656
04:04.24MaxdamantusSo probably not something that's going to appear in mainline.
04:04.45Maxdamantuswonders if there's a typical way to handle that sort of thing.
05:24.04MaxdamantusIs the source for the CSSU version of camera-ui still available somewhere?
05:28.09MaxdamantusAh, it's in community-testing.
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05:51.04Maxdamantusis going to see if he can add some sort of "fix" mechanism to camera-ui.
05:51.28Maxdamantusso when it's in that mode, it doesn't autofocus/autoexpose, etc
05:52.40Maxdamantushave to keep setting focus back to closest after taking each picture, and if you want to take something like a panorama, you should have the same exposure/ISO/colour/focus/..
05:53.45Maxdamantusfcamera kind of does it, but it's weird.
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06:47.10ebzzryWhere is modified-hildon-desktop?
06:49.06KotCzarnyhttp://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/m/modified-hildon-desktop/
06:49.15KotCzarnycould be in -testing or just extras too
06:49.53KotCzarnynope, just -devel
06:50.03KotCzarnyusual extras-devel warning applies
06:56.36ebzzryBy the way, which is more practical, having just -devel, or both -devel and -testing?
06:58.31sixwheeledbeaster mhd is included in CSSU
06:58.49ebzzrysixwheeledbeast: cssu-testing?
06:58.56sixwheeledbeastyep
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07:00.07sixwheeledbeastand you are best to only have -devel otherwise you'll slow HAM down, it also strongly advised you only enable devel when you need it.
07:00.29abramelinHello. Does anyone know of a good calendar / agenda / organiser application?
07:01.18sixwheeledbeastI use the Qt version of the stock one?
07:02.06abramelinI'm not content with it, as it cannot remind you earlier than 15 minutes beforehand
07:02.12abramelinAnd there are not recurring reminders
07:02.18sixwheeledbeastI doubt mhd in extras is even up to date with CSSU changes.
07:02.59KotCzarnyebzzy: never ever do apt-get upgrade (or update in ham) with extras-devel enabled
07:03.11KotCzarnyjust use it to install single packages
07:03.48sixwheeledbeastabramelin: I believe in the Qt version you can, not sure about reoccuring tho
07:04.05KotCzarnyabramelin: setup a regular alarm clock for recurring events?
07:04.21KotCzarnyyou can choose which days of week its active
07:05.26sixwheeledbeastFor reoccuring things I have always used alarmed
07:05.37sixwheeledbeast~qalender
07:05.42sixwheeledbeast~alarmed
07:05.49sixwheeledbeast~ping
07:05.49infobot1 packet transmitted, 1 packet received, 0.0% packet loss
07:05.57sixwheeledbeasthmm
07:06.02KotCzarny~listkeys alarm
07:06.08KotCzarny~listkeys calendar
07:06.35ebzzrysixwheeledbeast: thanks
07:06.59ebzzryBTW, when installing catorise, I got: "Can't locate Locale/gettext.pm in @INC ..."
07:07.09sixwheeledbeastebzzry: np
07:07.29sixwheeledbeastI would use catorise myself
07:07.39sixwheeledbeasts/would/wouldn't/
07:08.06sixwheeledbeastabramelin: talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90820 for Qt Calendar
07:08.45sixwheeledbeast~qalendar
07:09.25sixwheeledbeastinfobot: qalendar is http://wiki.maemo.org/Qalendar
07:09.25infobotsixwheeledbeast: okay
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07:11.33sixwheeledbeastabramelin: the other work around if you do not wish to install alarmed for your re-occuring events is to import an iCal made elsewhere into your calendar
07:13.22sixwheeledbeastebzzry: There are many "widgetz" that offer limited extra functionality, however they are normally costly to system performance.
07:21.17abramelinsixwheeledbeast how can I install qalendar? I couldn't find it in extras-devel
07:22.13KotCzarnyno info on that wiki page/
07:23.02sixwheeledbeastabramelin: it's listed on the wiki page how to change your default calendar to qalendar. The package currently is in -devel I believe.
07:23.23KotCzarnycssu-devel or extras-devel?
07:23.44sixwheeledbeastalso worth reading the thread ^^^
07:24.39KotCzarnyyeah, info about install is in wiki (indirectly but is)
07:24.51abramelinextas-devel
07:24.53sixwheeledbeastKotCzarny: you should know better :P        extras
07:25.16KotCzarnyswb: i've just started my cssu adventure :P
07:25.28KotCzarnycssu-thumb even
07:26.14sixwheeledbeastcssu-devel is experimental system updates for devs, apt-get only!
07:26.22KotCzarnyyeah
07:27.13sixwheeledbeastcssu-thumb is pretty solid I would use it only I don't wish to be forced into some of the other packages it comes with
07:27.21sixwheeledbeasthappy only stable
07:27.27sixwheeledbeasts/only/on/
07:27.38KotCzarnyim planning on creating some dummy replacement packages
07:28.13sixwheeledbeaststill not stumbled on that thread of mt's about dummy packages
07:28.45KotCzarnyin debian its done via equivs util
07:29.11sixwheeledbeastThat maybe it, ported
07:29.14KotCzarnyhttp://eric.lubow.org/2010/system-administration/creating-dummy-packages-on-debian/
07:29.36abramelinsixwheeledbeast the thread only tells me to look for a package called qalendar in extras-devel, and the instructions on the wiki assume that I've already installed it
07:29.51abramelinAm I overlooking something?
07:30.20KotCzarnyabramelin: wiki page explains gotchas for qalendar
07:30.59sixwheeledbeastnope, install package with HAM (or whatever). Then do the instructions on the wiki so the widget will default to qalendar.
07:32.04ebzzrysixwheeledbeast: ok. thanks.
07:33.21sixwheeledbeastKotCzarny: http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=92653
07:33.56abramelinsixwheeledbeast that's the point. I can't find any package named qalendar
07:34.36sixwheeledbeastabramelin: oh well it's there. maybe your repos are incorrect or out of date?
07:37.17KotCzarnyswb: thx, last time i looked at equivs it required some recent debian utils
07:38.08sixwheeledbeastKotCzarny: I have never tried it but it appears to work from reading the thread
07:39.06KotCzarny<PROTECTED>
07:39.08KotCzarnyhehe
07:40.32abramelinYeah, I think there's definitely something wrong with my repositories. I can't find nearly as many applications as before, and half the applications I install don't show up in the menu
07:41.20KotCzarnyabramelin: it's a fresh install?
07:41.24abramelinYeah
07:41.49KotCzarnywhat repos do you have enabled?
07:42.03abramelinextras-testing, extras-devel, cssu-testing
07:42.09KotCzarnyenable extras
07:42.19KotCzarnyand disable extras-devel
07:42.46abramelinIn fact, extras was also enabled
07:42.55KotCzarnyand 'before' was it configured by you or some second-handed fresh buy?
07:43.05abramelinI reflashed
07:44.23ebzzrysixwheeledbeast: isn't mhd's name modified-hildon-desktop? I have CSSU-Testing but I can't search it via 'apt-cache search modified-hildon-desktop'
07:45.22abramelinextras-testing was only enabled in Faster Application Manager but I've enabled it in the normal one too now
07:45.22sixwheeledbeastebzzry: the packages is not installed but the patches are included in the system
07:46.03KotCzarnyswb, ask him if he has cssu or stock
07:46.10sixwheeledbeastabramelin: qalendar is in -devel not -testing
07:46.20sixwheeledbeastKotCzarny: testing ^^^
07:46.29KotCzarnyright
07:46.41KotCzarnyquestion is, was it properly installed?
07:46.52sixwheeledbeast~xy
07:46.52infoboti guess xy is The XY problem: You want to do X, but don't know how. You think you can solve it using Y, but don't know how to do that, either. You ask about Y, which is a strange thing to want to do. Just ask about X. http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#goal
07:47.05KotCzarnyi have mixed feeling about cssu installation process
07:47.19KotCzarny(it requires proper repos setup and clicking on enabler icon)
07:47.57sixwheeledbeastKotCzarny: it had to be designed that way.
07:48.30ebzzrysixwheeledbeast: how can I make the patches active?
07:48.30KotCzarnyi understand, still, repos setup should be checked and fixed by installer
07:49.33sixwheeledbeastnot sure if it can check stock repos, it installs the new repos for you.
07:50.41KotCzarnystill, having cssu-thumb is worth it
07:50.54KotCzarnyand i thank cssu team and freemangordon
07:50.56KotCzarny:)
07:51.06ebzzryby the way, what's -thumb?
07:51.30Tekk_ebzzry: it's a way to save memory
07:51.39Tekk_it's a separate arm instruction set where a lot of the instructions take up half as much memory
07:51.43Tekk_(for the very basic version)
07:51.48ebzzryYa, I remember now.
07:51.55KotCzarnybut is not that much tested package wise on maemo
07:52.08Luke-JrI wonder if -thumb is why recording calls doesn't work
07:52.13ebzzrySo, regarding my question earlier, how will I take into effect the MHD patches from CSSU-Testing?
07:52.51Tekk_I actually wonder why -thumb wasn't the default in the first place
07:52.52KotCzarnyluke, install stock + cssu and compare
07:52.59DocScrutinizer05~jrtools
07:53.00infobotextra, extra, read all about it, jrtools is http://wiki.maemo.org/User:Joerg_rw/tools
07:53.00KotCzarnytekk: bugs in chip
07:53.05Tekk_ah
07:53.15KotCzarnyie. unstable at places
07:53.17Tekk_I'd always assumed it was the same shining competence that gave us the dependencies in packages :p
07:53.25DocScrutinizer05~tell ebzzry about jrtools
07:53.50Luke-JrKotCzarny: too much time/trouble
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07:54.14sixwheeledbeast~tell ebzzry about cssu-thumb
07:54.18KotCzarnyluke, n900 devices go cheaply nowadays, grab some
07:54.36Luke-Jrmeh
07:54.47Luke-JrI have a spare, but still takes time
07:55.12Luke-JrI haven't flashed fresh since 2010 or earlier.
07:55.14KotCzarnyflashing and installing few apps can be done in 15-30 mins
07:55.17Luke-Jrso I'd have to read up on how
07:55.24KotCzarny~flashing
07:55.24infoboti heard maemo-flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware, or - on linux PC - download&extract http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz, cd into it, do sudo ./flash-it-all.sh
07:55.31KotCzarnyuse docs tool ./flash-it-all.sh
07:55.36KotCzarnyits fully automatic
07:55.42sixwheeledbeastebzzry: the list of mhd features is on the cssu wiki age I believe
07:55.51KotCzarnys/docs/doc's/
07:55.54ebzzryhmm
07:58.56DocScrutinizer05http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Features/hildon-desktop
07:59.13DocScrutinizer05http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Features
07:59.30DocScrutinizer05http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU
08:00.42ebzzryCan anyone point me to the customizing rx-51 page?
08:01.03KotCzarnywhat do you mean by that
08:01.14KotCzarnymaemo is all about customizing
08:01.20KotCzarnyand hacking
08:03.33ebzzryI mean, are there now things about rx-51 now, aside from it lives in /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51
08:03.49KotCzarnystill too generic
08:03.53KotCzarnywhat do you want to do
08:04.20ebzzryI lost my config. I'll try to restore it from memory, then I'll ask if I'm stuck.
08:04.53KotCzarny~bm
08:04.53infobotrumour has it, backupmenu is http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=63975
08:05.04KotCzarnyfor future reference for you
08:05.55ebzzryYa. I remember using that before.
08:06.11ebzzryForgive my ignorance but what is uBoot?
08:06.18KotCzarny~uboot
08:06.18infobotN900 uBoot is a siamese twin binary [uBoot+stockMaemoKernel] that resides in kernel NAND partition /dev/mtd3 aka "kernel". You can't uninstall it, rather you'll nuke it when you flash/install another kernel like stock maemo kernel or powerkernel. To start other than stock maemo kernel via uBoot, you have to provide the according kernel image files, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=81613
08:06.55ebzzryWhat does it do?
08:08.00KotCzarnysee the link?
08:09.18ebzzryAre the Qole, Ruskie, Matan, 0xab still alive?
08:09.31KotCzarnyhaven't seen them on irc
08:09.51KotCzarnysee the tmo user statistic pages for their last activity date
08:09.58ebzzryI mean the repos
08:10.13KotCzarnysame
08:12.44ebzzryOhh. uBoot has bootmenu too?
08:12.56ebzzrycan uboot and backupmenu co-exist?
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08:20.29Maxdamantusebzzry: u-boot can practically coexist with anything.
08:20.35ebzzryMaxdamantus: ok
08:20.50MaxdamantusI think backupmenu is just within Linux, so it shouldn't clash.
08:21.12ebzzryAre there must-have apps before, that are considered deprecated now, or maybe supplanted by other apps?
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08:21.25Maxdamantusu-boot is a bootloader that can be used to load a desired kernel with desired arguments and a desired initrd.
08:22.15Wizzup"apps" :)
08:29.32MaxdamantusHm. I figured out how to remove the dialogue that pops up when you connect a USB cable: uninstall hildon-status-bar-usb
08:30.26Maxdamantusbut something else turns the screen on.
08:30.30Maxdamantussuspects it's mce.
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08:36.47MaxdamantusHm. Does `mce` just listen for commands from something else to toggle the display?
08:38.01MaxdamantusIf I disable the `display` module, the display doesn't turn on based on USB, but it doesn't turn on otherwise either.
08:38.41Maxdamantusbut something else seems to maintain a toggle for the input.
08:39.18Maxdamantusso without mce turning the screen on/off, the input still toggles based on flicking the switch on the right, etc
08:46.07WizzupMaxdamantus: at some point you will have stripped out so much from maemo you'd be better of building your own mobile os
08:47.14MaxdamantusI'd like to do that at some point.
08:47.26Maxdamantusbut it wouldn't necessarily be a "mobile os"
08:48.02Maxdamantusit'd just be a system similar to the ones I already use, just slightly better optimised for a small device with a touchscreen and slightly reduced keyboard.
08:48.19DocScrutinizer05aka maemo
08:48.23Maxdamantusit's annoying trying to set all that up on my only phone though.
08:48.35MaxdamantusMaemo isn't much like the other systems I use.
08:48.56Maxdamantusit's probably more like it than other commercial phone OSes.
08:49.47DocScrutinizer05N900 probably isn't much like the other PCs you use
08:50.05MaxdamantusWhy not?
08:50.28MaxdamantusIt's a box with a PCB inside that has a CPU and some other components.
08:50.36DocScrutinizer05krhrhr
08:50.55DocScrutinizer05that definition applies even to my microwave oven
08:51.20KotCzarny:)
08:51.30Maxdamantusmaybe if those components were useful enough and I could run Linux on the CPU, I'd want to spend more time on it.
08:51.50Maxdamantuser, thought you said my microwave oven.
08:51.53DocScrutinizer05nah, I'm already spending too much time on my oven
08:51.57KotCzarnythere are fridges that are connected to the internet
08:52.13KotCzarnyand coffee makers
08:53.06KotCzarnyand vending machines
08:53.11freemangordonMaxdamantus: there is hald plugin for detecting usb cable
08:53.27KotCzarnyanyway, maemo is nice enough to be used as an os, but it has annoyances
08:53.53KotCzarnybeing old and not being able to upgrade it to recent libs is one of them
08:53.55Maxdamantusfreemangordon: so does mce look at that?
08:54.01DocScrutinizer05yes. For example pukeaudio
08:54.29freemangordonMaxdamantus: use the source Luke
08:54.34freemangordon~mce
08:54.34infobotMCE = Machine Check Exception.  Mode Control Entity
08:54.37freemangordonhehe
08:54.45MaxdamantusYeah, got the source, looked at it for a few minutes.
08:54.47WizzupKotCzarny: amen to that
08:54.49KotCzarny~listkeys mce
08:55.06WizzupKotCzarny: though, if people manage to get all the core parts open, you could theoretically port those parts
08:55.12Wizzupto newer versions
08:55.24freemangordonWizzup: actually, we have most of the core parts open
08:55.28KotCzarnywizzup, kernel+glibc is a must
08:55.54freemangordoniirc it is only PA modules and omap3camd that are show-stoppers
08:55.58WizzupKotCzarny: what about openssl? gnutls? support for newer crypto? openssh? :)
08:56.09Wizzupfreemangordon: right. Although cameras are not a necessary part of the 'open core' :-)
08:56.23freemangordonneither is sound, but still
08:56.25Wizzupfreemangordon: so basically the -voice module?
08:56.29KotCzarnywizzup, do they rely on some n900 specific hw/libs? once you have recent glibs you can pretty much upgrade them too
08:56.30freemangordon:nod:
08:56.50freemangordonWizzup: ^^^
08:56.58WizzupKotCzarny: well, I'm not a debian-package expert, and I think it'll still entail quite some work
08:57.01Wizzupfreemangordon: ?
08:57.06WizzupYeah. :)
08:57.18freemangordonWizzup: the ":nod:" was pointed to you
08:57.19MaxdamantusDebian stable is still using an old-enough glibc.
08:57.27Maxdamantus2.13
08:57.37Wizzupwhy would you want an old one? I don't get that.
08:57.37Maxdamantuswonders when it's going to upgrade.
08:57.55WizzupTo be honest, I'm much more a fan of the rolling distro idea.
08:57.55MaxdamantusBecause 2.14 doesn't support Linux 2.6.28
08:58.09WizzupPackages get updates continually, but you can decide to stay at some older (more stable) versions fory ears
08:58.10KotCzarnyfreemangordon: thanks for the work on cssu-thumb, do you still use/maintain it?
08:58.19Wizzupuses cssu-thumb
08:58.32WizzupMaxdamantus: if I had a choice I'd go for musl libc :)
08:58.52KotCzarnywizzup: i think l29ah tried using musl and had problems
08:59.22WizzupI use musl on several systems and it works, so I don't know what 'problems' means. But yeah, regardless
08:59.49freemangordonKotCzarny: yes, recently I was very short on spare time and very tired, things are getting better now, so I'll issue a new update soon
09:00.23freemangordonthe question "do you use it" is pointless :)
09:00.31KotCzarnyfreemangordon: my suggestion is to recompile next few entries in top
09:00.32DocScrutinizer05tomorrow mega-moon
09:00.46freemangordonKotCzarny: like which?
09:01.08KotCzarnyhmm, let me find the log
09:01.12freemangordonok
09:01.25WizzupDocScrutinizer05: tonight even, yeah :)
09:01.26MaxdamantusI think I've found the line in mce to skip.
09:01.30Wizzup'bloodmoon' :)
09:01.40freemangordonis going to have some food
09:05.18Maxdamantuswonders where to get hald-addon-bme-dev
09:07.10KotCzarny> freemangordon, would you find some time to recompile image-viewer, rtcom-call-ui, systemui ? and
09:07.10KotCzarny<PROTECTED>
09:08.10Maxdamantus“it is in rx51-bme-replacement/hald-addon-bme repository”
09:10.17Maxdamantuswonders where that is.
09:11.03KotCzarnyhttp://logs.nslu2-linux.org/livelogs/maemo/maemo.20150602.txt
09:11.06KotCzarnyregarding musl
09:14.52freemangordonKotCzarny: browser is already recompiled
09:15.02freemangordonsystemui is some 20-30k binary iirc
09:15.10freemangordonand closed source
09:15.15KotCzarnyhmm, i just took few entries from the top
09:15.19freemangordonthe others are closed source as well
09:15.29KotCzarnyimage-viewer is closed?
09:15.30KotCzarnyO.o
09:15.35freemangordonyes
09:16.37KotCzarnymaxd: https://gitorious.org/rx51-bme-replacement/hald-addon-bme/source
09:16.53WizzupKotCzarny: I totally forgot about that buildserver
09:16.55DocScrutinizer05lrn2useTAB
09:17.17MaxdamantusKotCzarny: does gitorious.org magically work for you, or have you not tried that link?
09:17.23KotCzarnydoc: lrnthatsomepeopledontusesamesoftwareyoudo
09:17.36KotCzarnyseen the archive.org move
09:17.37MaxdamantusAnyway, I found it.
09:17.53Maxdamantusthe -dev package that is, not hald-addon-bme itself.
09:18.11Maxdamantus(just need a single header file from that, I think)
09:18.55Maxdamantusalso, fwiw, I use QImageViewer, which I think provides a similar UI to the original one.
09:19.09Maxdamantusbut it seems to handle alternative directories better.
09:19.25Maxdamantusactually, that's probably not what's invoked by other Maemo things that try to open images.
09:20.34ebzzryI want to bind Fn+Left to Escape. How should I modify /usr/share/X11/xkb/symbols/nokia_vndr/rx-51?
09:21.58KotCzarnyi think fn is the third field
09:22.06KotCzarnyjust see the example on letter a
09:22.15KotCzarnyand compare which field maps to which combination
09:22.18ebzzryKotCzarny: ok
09:23.04MaxdamantusYay, my mce modification does what I want.
09:23.54Maxdamantushttps://gist.github.com/Maxdamantus/d607903103bd63667fee
09:24.19KotCzarnycool
09:24.27KotCzarnymake it configurable somehow?
09:25.03MaxdamantusMaybe.
09:25.04KotCzarnybut yeah, its kind of wrong place for that originally
09:25.33DocScrutinizer05*sigh*
09:30.39KotCzarnypopup dialog should disable tklock, not tklock itself
09:30.47KotCzarnyusb popup, that is
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09:33.04DocScrutinizer05<PROTECTED>
09:33.20*** join/#maemo LjL (~ljl@unaffiliated/ljl)
09:35.03MaxdamantusThat's not responsible for the dialogue or the display toggle.
09:35.38DocScrutinizer05right. and nobody said it was.   ke-recv-test at
09:35.53Maxdamantuske-recv isn't responsible either.
09:36.07DocScrutinizer05right. and nobody said it was.  
09:37.25DocScrutinizer05mce isn't responsible either
09:38.39DocScrutinizer05I guess poettering and dbus are responsible ;-P
09:40.03DocScrutinizer05~xy
09:40.03infoboti heard xy is The XY problem: You want to do X, but don't know how. You think you can solve it using Y, but don't know how to do that, either. You ask about Y, which is a strange thing to want to do. Just ask about X. http://www.catb.org/~esr/faqs/smart-questions.html#goal
09:45.43Maxdamantusmce doesn't do it in reaction to anything to do with ke-recv.
09:46.16sixwheeledbeastebzzry: re: apps that's a difficult question to answer. Applications come and go, bugs are found maintainers disappear, this is Maemo. It's different from other well maintained distros.
09:46.44ebzzrysixwheeledbeast: ok.
09:47.15Wizzupsixwheeledbeast: what other well maintained mobile distros are there out there
09:47.34MaxdamantusMaybe things would be slightly different if that project to move all the Maemo stuff into normal Debian were maintained.
09:47.53WizzupMaxdamantus: do it
09:47.59KotCzarny:)
09:48.03WizzupI think you're just preaching to the choir
09:48.08MaxdamantusIt's hard, and the software is old now.
09:48.09Wizzup(also, would prefer it to be not just debian)
09:48.14sixwheeledbeastthe best advise it's to minimize your "widgetz" and becareful what you install always have a backup
09:48.29Maxdamantushttps://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_on_Debian
09:48.36sixwheeledbeastLinux distros obv.
09:51.25KotCzarnyi think the only distro that can make phone calls on n900 is fremantle
09:51.48Maxdamantusassuming you want audio.
09:51.58KotCzarnyassume i want
09:52.13MaxdamantusBut what good is a phone call if you're unable to speak?
09:52.16KotCzarnyand 99.999% of the people that want phone calls
09:52.39KotCzarnyi can speak, but will they hear me?
09:54.26WizzupKotCzarny: I think that can be fixed/changed.
09:54.40WizzupAs fmg stated, reverse engineering the -voice module will make a difference
09:54.55Wizzupand since mainline also supports nokia modem + cmt_speech, with that module it should be possible to "make it work"
09:55.01WizzupAnd like the neo900 project would benefit too
09:55.05Wizzups/like/likely/
09:55.23KotCzarnyhow so?
09:55.40Wizzupif you want to run maemo on said device, the core pa part needs to be open iirc
09:55.45Maxdamantusbenefit from the porting of Maemo to Debian.
09:55.53Wizzupno, that's not what I meant at all
09:56.23KotCzarnydebian == dependency hell
09:56.26WizzupI meant that opening the pulse modules is essential to getting sound to work well there iirc (at least for maemo)
09:56.30KotCzarnyyou dont want debian on n900
09:56.37MaxdamantusNeo900 isn't going to require those pulse modules.
09:56.53Wizzupwants a second opinion
09:58.14DocScrutinizer05"porting of Maemo to Debian" err what? porting demian to linux first?
09:58.23DocScrutinizer05debian even
09:58.37DocScrutinizer05maemo *is* a debian system
09:58.54MaxdamantusNo. It's an apt system.
09:59.08MaxdamantusIt's not compatible with debian.
09:59.14DocScrutinizer05no, it's a linux system
09:59.46DocScrutinizer05how is maemo not compatible with debian??
10:00.07MaxdamantusIt has its own system of packages independent from any of the Debian releases.
10:00.07DocScrutinizer05I have tons of debian tools installed to maemo without a single patch applied to them
10:00.14WizzupPlease don't argue stupid semantics. Maemo is based on debian.
10:01.57DocScrutinizer05idly wonders what's a "system of packages"
10:04.01MaxdamantusDocScrutinizer05: you can't smoothly use Debian's repositories for their releases of .. Debian.
10:04.26DocScrutinizer05tzz
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10:04.55Maxdamantusdpkg and apt don't imply Debian.
10:05.08DocScrutinizer05pretty happy about that - otherwise we had damn systemd now
10:05.21Wizzup+1
10:06.34DocScrutinizer05and of course I can use e.g. devuan's ARM repos to install arbitrary binaries to maemo
10:06.58Maxdamantusfor some reason I have apt and dpkg installed on Gentoo.
10:07.06DocScrutinizer05as long as they don't conflict with libs
10:07.22WizzupMaxdamantus: it's in the repos (at least dpkg)
10:07.35Maxdamantus# epm -qf `which apt`
10:07.35Maxdamantusjava-config-2.1.11-r1
10:07.37MaxdamantusO_o
10:07.45Wizzupapp-arch/dpkg
10:08.11MaxdamantusYeah, there's an actual package in portage for dpkg.
10:08.21Maxdamantuswhich is often useful.
10:08.33Maxdamantuslrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 13 Nov 22  2010 /usr/bin/apt -> run-java-tool
10:08.44MaxdamantusThis `apt` thing is just weird though.
10:09.01Wizzupant ... apt ... only one char difference
10:09.07Maxdamantusis removing java-config
10:12.21DocScrutinizer05suggests Angstrom aka openembedded, the "linux for microwave ovens". It already has everything removed, you can start tight away with the more interesting task of *adding* stuff again. Stuff like dedicated users - everything running under root on Angstrom
10:12.50DocScrutinizer05right, even
10:23.43MaxdamantusApparently Ubuntu is based on an actual release of Debian.
10:24.15Maxdamantusso it, unlike Maemo, really is a variant of Debian and not just another OS that happens to also use apt/dpkg.
10:25.49Maxdamantusand debian doesn't really require systemd.
10:27.03Maxdamantussystemd is just a piece of software that you can choose not to use. The repositories have something like sysvinit still, and possibly upstart.
10:27.20DocScrutinizer05maemo **IS** based on debian!!!
10:27.49MaxdamantusIt's based on the package managers that Debian uses.
10:27.51WizzupMaxdamantus: maemo was made by taking a debian as base
10:27.52DocScrutinizer05>>systemd is just a piece of software that you can choose not to use<< plain wrong, see devuan.org
10:27.54Wizzupno, you're wrong
10:27.57WizzupIt actually uses debian
10:28.15Maxdamantusdevuan sounds like a variant of debian.
10:28.28Maxdamantusin the same sense of Ubuntu.
10:28.45WizzupMaxdamantus: step 1) take debian stable step 2) copy repos step 3) add maemo packages step 4) maemo was born
10:28.46DocScrutinizer05aha
10:28.53DocScrutinizer05interesting how that sounds
10:29.54DocScrutinizer05~systemd
10:29.55infobotsystemd cabal: a bunch of people (Lennart Poettering, Kay Sievers, Harald Hoyer, Daniel Mack, Tom Gundersen, David Herrmann) who want to turn linux into their wet dream perverted version of windows-me-too: http://0pointer.net/blog/revisiting-how-we-put-together-linux-systems.html -- Rumor has it that 2016 systemd will have replaced kernel, or see https://devuan.org  http://without-systemd.org/wiki/index.php/Arguments_against_systemd
10:29.58KotCzarnyits not debian in the sense debian is a trademark hold by some group
10:30.51Maxdamantusit's not Debian in an additional sense, which Ubuntu is.
10:31.06DocScrutinizer05*plonk*
10:31.13KotCzarny*held
10:31.38KotCzarnyand i can have debian tools in slackware/gentoo etc, which doesnt make them debian
10:32.06KotCzarnydebian is a system which is installed from specified official repos packaged by debian team
10:32.27MaxdamantusYes, and that's what Ubuntu is too.
10:32.47KotCzarnyubuntu repackages debian stuff
10:32.47Maxdamantusbut not Maemo. Its base set of packages aren't from Debian.
10:32.59DocScrutinizer05BULLSHIT
10:35.13KotCzarnyif you take debian os and package it your own way you cant call it debian
10:35.22KotCzarny(trademark)
10:35.33WizzupMaxdamantus: it really is, though
10:35.38Maxdamantusapt-get source libc6
10:35.44Maxdamantuslook at the changelog.
10:35.59DocScrutinizer05but honestly who except you cares? when you want debian, usedebian! maybe wen you ask nicely, they even will host maemo on their repo and so fullfill your dream of "porting maemo to debian"
10:36.11MaxdamantusDoes it look like it's gone through the history of Debian maintanance?
10:36.25KotCzarny<DocScrutinizer05> maemo *is* a debian system
10:36.44Maxdamantus<PROTECTED>
10:36.44Maxdamantus<PROTECTED>
10:36.48DocScrutinizer05no, Mr Elop's dog coded that libc6 on a sunday afternoon
10:36.53MaxdamantusThat's the earliest entry.
10:37.34Maxdamantusit's obviously not part of Debian.
10:37.52KotCzarnyhmm, nokia 770 is pricey than n900/n9
10:38.27DocScrutinizer05nothing of maemo is part of debian now, since maemo is 8 years old fork of debian
10:38.39Maxdamantusit's not a fork of Debian.
10:38.44DocScrutinizer05it is
10:38.50WizzupKotCzarny: yeah, it's odd. more vintage or something
10:38.51Maxdamantusotherwise things like libc would have Debian's changelog.
10:38.54DocScrutinizer05it is
10:39.01WizzupMaxdamantus: you're really just ... stop, please
10:39.10WizzupI don't even know why you guys are arguing about this
10:39.16WizzupYou both know exactly what the other person means
10:39.19DocScrutinizer05neither
10:39.29MaxdamantusHow is it part of Debian and not just another system that uses apt/dpkg?
10:39.31DocScrutinizer05it's a bullshit irrelevant sicussion
10:39.44DocScrutinizer05it is
10:39.44WizzupMaxdamantus: you shifted the definition to 'part of debian' now
10:39.50Wizzupubuntu is not a part of debian, either
10:40.01MaxdamantusI never shifted the definition.
10:40.02Wizzupit just merges some stuff from debian
10:40.04DocScrutinizer05it is
10:40.19Wizzup12:23 < Maxdamantus> Apparently Ubuntu is based on an actual release of Debian.
10:40.21Wizzupso was maemo
10:40.30MaxdamantusWizzup: it really wasn't.
10:40.32DocScrutinizer05it is
10:40.37Wizzupokay. whatever.
10:40.38MaxdamantusWizzup: look at the changelogs.
10:40.40DocScrutinizer05it is
10:40.41Wizzupyou have your world, I will have mine
10:40.46Wizzupcheers
10:41.33Maxdamantusmkdir gaentoo/usr/portage/core/libc.ebuild
10:41.36DocScrutinizer05it is
10:41.46Maxdamantusoh hey, I just made another distribution of Gentoo.
10:41.48DocScrutinizer05it is
10:41.53Maxdamantusafk
10:41.55DocScrutinizer05it is
10:44.59DocScrutinizer05http://maemo.org/static/e/eb42356042ac11ddbc5f8dc15ddf368c368c_maemo_overview.png
10:45.14KotCzarny'related'
10:45.30KotCzarnynot 'included' or 'licensed'
10:45.51DocScrutinizer05/topic
10:47.03DocScrutinizer05unrelated not licenced non-inclusive comment
10:48.00DocScrutinizer05where's ubuntu's "debian-license"?
10:48.09KotCzarnyubuntu is not debian
10:48.23DocScrutinizer05no, debian is debian
10:48.27KotCzarnyyes
10:48.39DocScrutinizer05HOORAY we found the final truth
10:48.53DocScrutinizer05the answer to everything
10:49.06KotCzarnytruly
10:49.58KotCzarnyhmm, 770 for ~30usd
10:50.12KotCzarnywonder if it has any problems
10:51.01sixwheeledbeast42?
10:51.12DocScrutinizer05sixwheeledbeast: yes
10:51.48DocScrutinizer05wouldn't be surprised if it was also the crossfoot of KotCzarny
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10:53.38DocScrutinizer05Aprune is not a vegetable, cabbage is a vegetable
10:55.01sixwheeledbeastNot wishing to start all that up again.... but even tho you can have debian without systemd lots of things and DE's depend on systemd. So it's difficult to not have it. That's is a major part of the systemd argument.
10:55.24KotCzarnyswb, its simple, use slackware
10:55.53KotCzarnyand if gnome folks sold themselves, stop using gnome
10:55.56DocScrutinizer05http://www.zapkolik.com/video/frank-zappa-plastic-people-573213
10:56.42sixwheeledbeastmeh, I use Ubuntu MATE. Works well and no systemd.
10:56.50KotCzarnythat too
10:57.33KotCzarnyregular users dont care what they use as long they can get their work done
10:58.27DocScrutinizer05irregular users bitch about maemo not being debian
10:59.25DocScrutinizer05but.... ONLY DEBIAN is debian!
10:59.41KotCzarnyand doc is slowly turning into old grumpy troll
10:59.48KotCzarnywhich is a pity, really
10:59.59DocScrutinizer05wrong! I always been
11:00.20KotCzarnyfirst step of AA program, acknowledge the fact
11:00.31KotCzarnyso, there is some hope for you
11:00.34DocScrutinizer05and a way better troll than you newcomer-wannabes
11:07.19DocScrutinizer05sixwheeledbeast: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2015/05/05/ubuntu_15_04_review/
11:11.41sixwheeledbeast<PROTECTED>
11:12.36DocScrutinizer05aaah, never heard of MATE, translated it to German :-)
11:13.40MaxdamantusUbuntu is a derivitive of Debian. I suspect if you `apt-get source libc6` on Ubuntu and look at the changelog, it won't start in 2006 from a guy with an address ending in @canonical.com
11:14.13Maxdamantusas I pointed out, if you do that on Maemo, you see a few changes, starting in 2006 with a guy whose email address ends in @nokia.com
11:14.19Maxdamantusbecause it's not a fork of the Debian package.
11:16.04DocScrutinizer05yeah, right, you found the evidence that Nokia and whole community lied to us since 8 or 10 years
11:16.41MaxdamantusI see the same thing with xorg-server, and I suspect the pattern will continue with all the other core packages that look like they might be from Debian.
11:17.05DocScrutinizer05I already disclosed the secret truth to you:  [2015-09-27 Sun 12:36:48] <DocScrutinizer05> no, Mr Elop's dog coded that libc6 on a sunday afternoon
11:17.08MaxdamantusThe system isn't based on Debian. It's a fairly separate system that happens to use the same package manager.
11:17.53DocScrutinizer05same dog coded xorg
11:18.03MaxdamantusSo Debian == Gentoo
11:18.04sixwheeledbeastI am sure it's something like apt-get install upstart-sysv, job done
11:18.50sixwheeledbeasthttp://mate-desktop.org/ BTW
11:19.55DocScrutinizer05then a dude of debian QA came along, noticed the faked changelogs and fixed them with the proper correct "created debianized foobar, dog@nokia.elop.moon
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11:22.33DocScrutinizer05anyway pretty funny how virtually any debian tool or app _just_works_ on maemo, after 8 years of betrayal and lies about maemo's true nature
11:23.03MaxdamantusIt doesn't just work. It has to be compiled for Maemo.
11:23.14DocScrutinizer05must be a really unfortunate coincidence, not intended by the dog and Mr Elop
11:23.27MaxdamantusChances are you can compile it for pretty much any Linux-based distribution.
11:23.32DocScrutinizer05no, it has to be compiled for ARM
11:24.03MaxdamantusThen you'd compile it for ARM.
11:24.04DocScrutinizer05anyway, you're really boring me
11:24.45DocScrutinizer05your argument is about an inexistent issue
11:24.58KotCzarnywow, debian invented libc6 and other things?
11:25.10MaxdamantusDebian invented the libc6 package for Debian.
11:25.25Maxdamantuswhich includes the glibc source and some patches and build instructions and a changelog.
11:26.16DocScrutinizer05proof or it's a lie
11:26.59DocScrutinizer05~ Maxdamantus is <reply> Debian invented the libc6 package for Debian
11:26.59infobotDocScrutinizer05: okay
11:27.12Maxdamantushttp://http.debian.net/debian/pool/main/g/glibc/glibc_2.19-22.debian.tar.xz
11:28.29MaxdamantusThis one begins with:  -- Joel Klecker <espy@debian.org>  Sat,  6 Feb 1999 12:26:10 -0800
11:31.44Maxdamantushttp://packages.ubuntu.com/precise/libc6
11:31.53Maxdamantusubuntu just provides a diff from the Debian package.
11:32.05Maxdamantusafaict
11:32.33DocScrutinizer05~wiki libc6
11:32.57DocScrutinizer050.1 – 0.6 Oct 1991 – February 1992
11:33.09MaxdamantusOh no, it's a diff from the eglibc source, but you can see that it's a fork of the debian package because the changelog is mostly filled with @debian.org entries.
11:34.16DocScrutinizer05glibc was initially written mostly by Roland McGrath, working for the Free Software Foundation (FSF) in the 1980s.
11:35.10DocScrutinizer05In the early 1990s, the developers of the Linux kernel forked glibc. Their fork, called "Linux libc", was maintained separately for years and released versions 2 through 5.
11:35.50DocScrutinizer05so... ***debian is not linux!!!***
11:35.58MaxdamantusSo you're saying that Debian is Gentoo?
11:36.04Maxdamantusbecause they both use glibc?
11:36.31Maxdamantusor .. what are you saying?
11:36.48DocScrutinizer05no, debian is based on a system that just happens to use a lib with the same name:   Joel Klecker <espy@debian.org>  Sat,  6 Feb 1999 12:26:10 -0800
11:37.27DocScrutinizer05and you already said debian invented their glibc err libc6 by themselves
11:37.48DocScrutinizer05so evidently it's not linux, it's debian. It only looks like linux
11:38.28DocScrutinizer05MEH, this is funny but finally I get tired of it
11:38.41DocScrutinizer05o/
11:38.43KotCzarnyhmm
11:38.46KotCzarnyi got another
11:38.51KotCzarnydebian uses linux kernel
11:39.00KotCzarnyso linux kernel is debian
11:39.53Sicelocongrats on the N9 KotCzarny. i love it UI-wise
11:40.00KotCzarnybut more seriously, devuan is not debian in the sense of naming and being developed by different people
11:40.31KotCzarnysicelo: thx, gotta still wait for the package to confirm if i was lucky (should get it in a week)
11:41.05Sicelobattery isn't glued, but you pretty much disassembe whole device to remove it
11:41.28Maxdamantusbut disregarding naming issues, it is Debian in that the libc6 package is either directly from Debian's repositories, or its source package is a fork of that glibc package I linked earlier.
11:41.31Sicelowhich isn't terribly difficult if you have all the toolds
11:42.02Maxdamantus(and so on for most packages)
11:42.39KotCzarnysicelo, good to hear, because most likely its battery could be dying (was unused for at least 4 months)
11:44.05Sicelolikely not :) the N9 i worked on had been unused for longet than that .. completely empty. but the battery seems to still be strong
11:44.19KotCzarny:)
11:48.47Sicelo64GB or 16?
11:48.48DocScrutinizer05debian been a fake linux written by a bonobo with a fake email addr of Joel Klecker <espy@debian.org>
11:48.58KotCzarnysicelo, dont know, but i bet on the 16
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11:49.44Maxdamantusapparently 64 GB is only available in black, so if that's true it might be narrowed down.
11:49.47Maxdamantus</guess>
11:49.59KotCzarnysicelo, still, i'm not gonna cry, as long it works, all i need it for porting oscp
11:50.34KotCzarnyheck, i might even use it as my main phone
11:50.51KotCzarnymaxd: its black
11:51.19MaxdamantusMeh, not narrowed down then.
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11:53.35DocScrutinizer05>>According to Richard Stallman, the changes that had been made in Linux libc could not be merged back into glibc because the authorship status of that code was unclear and the GNU project is quite strict about recording copyright and authors<<
11:54.05DocScrutinizer05of course it was unclear ;-P
11:54.17MaxdamantusCan someone ban this troll?
11:58.12KotCzarnylol
11:58.56KotCzarnymaxd: that troll is one of the few most important people for n900
11:59.03KotCzarnypity he has bad attitude
11:59.30MaxdamantusI know. I'm joking about the ban part.
11:59.37DocScrutinizer05I just can't stand the off topic nonsense and wall of noise in here anymore
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11:59.41KotCzarnystill, sometimes it would be nice to ban him
11:59.43KotCzarny:)
11:59.50KotCzarnyjust for levelling the field
12:00.26DocScrutinizer05yeah. leveling it for walls of null-statements like >i got another<
12:00.40DocScrutinizer05>so linux kernel is debian<
12:00.51KotCzarny(now it gets personal)
12:01.16DocScrutinizer05yes, obviously
12:01.22DocScrutinizer05I can also get personal
12:01.23MaxdamantusI'm more amused by >its black<
12:01.34Maxdamantusit's bald.
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12:26.53freemangordonPali: https://github.com/community-ssu/rtcom-accounts-plugin-jabber/commits/master :)
12:27.51freemangordonPali: just compile tested, I have no idea how to test it on the device
12:28.07DocScrutinizer05:-)
12:28.17freemangordonPali: maybe it is a good idea to enable glib cast checks while testing
12:28.21DocScrutinizer05now RE telepathy-ring. Errr
12:28.43freemangordonPali: https://github.com/community-ssu/rtcom-accounts-plugin-jabber/blob/master/debian/rules#L15
12:28.49freemangordonDocScrutinizer05: hmm?
12:28.53freemangordonwhat is it?
12:28.54DocScrutinizer05nevermind
12:29.12freemangordonanyway, what is it?
12:29.28DocScrutinizer05telepathy cellmo "plugin"
12:29.35DocScrutinizer05aiui
12:29.42Palitelepathy-ring is telepathy connection module for csd cellular daemon
12:29.43freemangordonhttps://github.com/nemomobile/telepathy-ring
12:29.53freemangordonisn't that similar?
12:29.57Palithere are two versions of it: version 1 and version 2
12:30.01DocScrutinizer05yes, most likely similar
12:30.08Paliversion 2 was open sourced and communicate with ofono
12:30.23Paliversion 1 is closed and communicate with csd/sscd
12:31.12DocScrutinizer05so maybe we could actually nuke all that csd et al crap and replace it by ofono (or even fso?)
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12:32.40freemangordonwell, I'd guess that the initial tree is vary similar to what we have in v1.0
12:32.43freemangordon*very
12:32.58Palibut with stripped csd
12:33.04DocScrutinizer05yep, prolly. Then they adaped it to ofono
12:33.24freemangordonsure, but it will be waaay easier to just RE that part. I guess :)
12:33.42DocScrutinizer05define "that part" please
12:33.43Paliand why do you want to RE telepathy-ring?
12:33.57Paliwhat bring us that source code?
12:34.02freemangordon(15,28,21) DocScrutinizer05: now RE telepathy-ring. Errr
12:34.05freemangordon:)
12:34.10DocScrutinizer05just kidding
12:34.36freemangordonPali: BTW, why do you want that jabber code?
12:34.44freemangordonthere is a bug?
12:34.46DocScrutinizer05anyway telepathy-ring would be a rewarding object to look into, and see if we could get it working in a FOSS version
12:34.48Palisame what with gtalk code
12:34.59Paliadding support for setting resource priority
12:35.05freemangordonok
12:35.06Paliand other jabber properties
12:35.14freemangordonok, cool
12:35.20Paliand fixing mem leaks :-) if they are too
12:35.34freemangordonI didn't see any
12:35.56freemangordonjust one buffer on the stack used to g_sprintf a title
12:36.10freemangordonI replaced it with g_strdup_printf :)
12:36.43DocScrutinizer05replacing all that closed csd etc blobs was a nice plan from beginning. And I think mer actually *did* that on their proto implementation on N900
12:37.00Paliyes, ofono is working on N900
12:37.06DocScrutinizer05:nod:
12:37.22Palijust it is hard to integrate it into maemo subsystem
12:37.28freemangordonPali: BTW, are there more plugins in rtcom-accounts-ui?
12:37.43Palispecially with Call UI, Messaging UI and other apps
12:37.50freemangordonbesides gtalk and jabber
12:37.51DocScrutinizer05so when ofono is working on N900, why can't ofono work under maemo, given we 'update' telepathy-ring?
12:37.53Palifreemangordon: https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages
12:37.58Paliwill look at it
12:38.24PaliDocScrutinizer05: just because those closed UI applications use more CSD functions directly
12:38.35DocScrutinizer05can you list them?
12:38.42PaliCalll UI, Messaging UI
12:38.49DocScrutinizer05I mean the functions
12:38.50Palimaybe also Contacts UI
12:38.59Palifunctions?
12:39.04Palido not know exacly
12:39.07Palilot of dbus calls
12:39.10Palijonwil should know
12:39.18DocScrutinizer05dbus calls should be easy
12:39.31Palie.g. voice and video calls use something special
12:39.39DocScrutinizer05:nod:
12:39.49DocScrutinizer05prolly even calls to mafw
12:39.54DocScrutinizer05dbus calls
12:40.15DocScrutinizer05at least for video
12:40.49Palifreemangordon: rtcom-accounts-plugin-facebook, rtcom-accounts-plugin-nokiachat, rtcom-accounts-plugin-sip, rtcom-accounts-voip-support
12:41.00Paliso maybe SIP and VOIP support are relevant
12:41.13Palialso there is rtcom-abook-skype-plugin
12:41.21DocScrutinizer05I nevertheless wonder who's sending those special calls. I'd think it must be telepathy-ring, or some rtcom-stuff
12:41.41DocScrutinizer05(rtcom) yes, SIP is very relevant
12:41.42Palijonwil once tried to RE Call UI application
12:41.56Paliso should know more about those internal stuff
12:41.58Pali~seen jonwil
12:42.00infobotjonwil <~jonwil@27-33-80-219.tpgi.com.au> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 5d 23h 44m 8s ago, saying: ':)'.
12:42.05DocScrutinizer05yeah, call-ui is a monster. Not going to happen
12:43.41DocScrutinizer05but regarding dbus, it's just those calls that are *from* blob (e.g. call-ui) to blob (e.g. csd) which give us headache when we switch to ofono - right?
12:44.16DocScrutinizer05hmm, or from blob to telepathy-ring
12:44.49DocScrutinizer05maybe those can actually get RE-ed by comparing telepathy-ring v1 against v2
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12:50.29DocScrutinizer05dbus logs suck because of those 'anonymous' (numeric) bus clients - we should run whole system under strace, then combine that with a d-bus log of a outbound/inbound call and thus de-anonymize the dbus log, then filter it so we only see the relevant calls which come/go from or to one of the modem subsystems like telepathy-ring or csd
12:51.35DocScrutinizer05then do the same on mer, with telepathy-ring_2 and ofono :-)
12:51.47DocScrutinizer05err s/mer/sailfish
12:52.07DocScrutinizer05or nemo, or... I lost track
12:56.52DocScrutinizer05you know why BB5 modem audio sucks so much? just because >>lsmod ->  omap_ssi               18116  2 ssi_mcsaab_imp,cmt_speech<<  the modem has no dedicated audio lines that are used in N900 but rather pipes audio through a 'connection' on a bus with a protocol quite similar to TCP (omap_ssi)
12:58.49DocScrutinizer05luckily that's a quite uncommon design for modem audio
13:00.13ebzzryI've borked my locales. Now the time shows up as wdgt_va_24h_time. How can I restore it?
13:00.42DocScrutinizer05if at least the protocol on that connection over SSI was RTP/RTCP
13:00.54KotCzarnyebzzry, reflash or copy from working device
13:01.22DocScrutinizer05ebzzry: hmm, you probabaly messed up the locale cache, a 24MB size closed blob file
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13:02.52KotCzarnyyou can regen it to some extent tho
13:03.02ebzzryIs it /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive?
13:03.10DocScrutinizer05-rw-r--r--   1 root     root     23911920 Feb 19  2010 /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive
13:03.11DocScrutinizer05yep
13:03.20KotCzarnymine is 1.3M
13:03.32KotCzarnyand apps work (ie. show proper strings)
13:03.39ebzzryDoes anybody have a public copy?
13:03.41DocScrutinizer05some do, most don't
13:03.51DocScrutinizer05ebzzry: wait a second
13:04.44KotCzarnyi think you can try putting en_US UTF-8 in /etc/local.gen and running locale-gen script
13:04.57ebzzryok
13:05.27KotCzarnythough i dont remember the exact name of the script apparently
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13:05.45DocScrutinizer05ebzzry: ETA 3 minutes
13:06.07KotCzarnybut just grab doc's file
13:06.19DocScrutinizer05ebzzry: you can't regenerate the cache, it has a lot of strings that are non-public
13:06.27ebzzryDocScrutinizerok
13:06.43KotCzarnydoc, everything i use (and need) has strings
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13:07.22KotCzarnyso, one can regenerate the file (and slim it down at the same time)
13:07.37DocScrutinizer05(everything I use) which can't be much after your 360° weed-out
13:07.56KotCzarnynope, its stock fremantle on that device
13:08.07KotCzarnydialer, image-viewer, ham
13:08.14KotCzarnyand more
13:08.43KotCzarnybasically everything
13:08.49KotCzarnyname one app i should check
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13:09.31DocScrutinizer050c0677ff23708192bc8e46187d9dedcf  /usr/lib/locale/locale-archive
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13:10.06ebzzryWhere can I fetch that?
13:10.09DocScrutinizer05wget http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/locale/locale-archive
13:11.07DocScrutinizer05fetch it then check md5sum
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13:11.18DocScrutinizer05I didn't check if upload went ok
13:11.19ebzzryfetching
13:11.28ebzzryBy the way, is kernel-power OK?
13:11.35DocScrutinizer05mostly yes
13:11.56ebzzryI remember before that during "random" times, the clock speed lowers.
13:12.03DocScrutinizer05actually I have a hard time telling anything that's not OK with it
13:12.50DocScrutinizer05nah, just don't mess with clock speed. Unless you do, power kernel should behave just like stock
13:13.24DocScrutinizer05cya
13:13.27DocScrutinizer05o/
13:15.54DocScrutinizer05dang
13:16.14ebzzryDocScrutinizer05: what is the name of the package?
13:17.43DocScrutinizer05moved it to http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/usr/lib/locale/locale-archive
13:18.02DocScrutinizer05ebzzry: package? name of which package?
13:18.20ebzzrykernel power
13:18.31DocScrutinizer05err, dunno
13:18.34KotCzarny~kp
13:18.35infobotkp is, like, http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94287
13:18.37DocScrutinizer05~pkgs
13:18.38infoboti heard #maemo pkg is http://maemo.org/packages/
13:18.45KotCzarny~kernel-power
13:18.57KotCzarnymost likely kernel-power
13:19.46KotCzarnyread the link tho
13:19.51KotCzarny(before installing)
13:20.09ebzzryOk. Do you guys use u-boot?
13:20.12DocScrutinizer05you need kernel-power *-flasher and *-modules
13:21.16KotCzarnyInstallation:
13:21.16KotCzarnyFrom Hildon Application Manager install package: Linux kernel for power user
13:21.17KotCzarnyOr via apt-get package: kernel-power-flasher
13:21.37KotCzarnyas i've said, read the link
13:22.32DocScrutinizer05for uBoot you also need http://maemo.org/packages/view/kernel-power-bootimg/
13:22.40KotCzarny<PROTECTED>
13:22.43KotCzarny<PROTECTED>
13:22.52KotCzarnyFrom Hildon Application Manager install packages: U-Boot with kernel 2.6.28-omap1 and Linux kernel for power user (boot image for U-Boot)
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13:26.46DocScrutinizer05~kernel-power is <reply>see kp
13:26.46infobotDocScrutinizer05: okay
13:27.22DocScrutinizer05~literal kp
13:27.22infobot"#maemo kp" is "http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=94287"
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13:31.16DocScrutinizer05ebzzry: (use uboot) not really, I don't need it
13:32.21Wizzupebzzry: I use u-boot
13:35.12DocScrutinizer05uBoot is really needed as alternative to:
13:35.17DocScrutinizer05~multiboot
13:35.18infobothmm... multiboot is http://maemo.org/packages/view/multiboot/, or **DEPRECATED*, see ~maemo-multiboot
13:35.38DocScrutinizer05~maemo-multiboot
13:35.39infobotextra, extra, read all about it, maemo-multiboot is deprecated, and a horrible hack.  PROBLEMS WITH NITDROID/MULTIBOOT? reflash rootfs&kernel aka COMBINED
13:37.29DocScrutinizer05HOWEVER! Now finally after FIVE years it occurs to me: multiboot is flashing a new kernel "endocrine" - why did nobody implement that into BM already?
13:37.52DocScrutinizer05to backup and restore the right kernel together with the system
13:39.28DocScrutinizer05I should check how multiboot actually works, i.e. how it manages to flash a new kernel. Prolly it simply invokes the kernel-flasher package via apt-get install ;-)
13:40.17kerionanddump/nandwrite?
13:40.18kerioi mean
13:40.43KotCzarnyhmm, last time i checked dd worked with /dev/mtd (at least for reading)
13:40.44keriothe way i would do it if i had to do it this way would be to keep all the kernels somewhere else
13:40.46kerioand flash them
13:41.06keriobut obviously the solution is to just boot the goddamn kernel you want from uboot
13:42.39kerioi don't even have a kernel together with uboot anymore
13:43.24DocScrutinizer05kerio: (nanddump/write) that been also my first approach
13:44.07kerioi don't see why that wouldn't work
13:44.17keriobut maybe the flasher is doing something fancier?
13:44.17DocScrutinizer05kerio: (uboot solution) not for BM
13:44.39kerioDocScrutinizer05: well, the kernel *is* stored somewhere in the backup
13:44.47DocScrutinizer05(fancier) dunno, at least it is more "mainstream" and tested ;-)
13:44.56DocScrutinizer05it is?
13:45.06keriono i mean i don't know if it's actually doing the equivalent of nand write
13:45.14kerioor if it's handling some more cases
13:45.21kerioDocScrutinizer05: if you have the -bootimg, it is
13:45.23DocScrutinizer05neither do I
13:45.25kerioit's in /opt/boot
13:45.42DocScrutinizer05yes, but that's only given when you have uBoot
13:45.46KotCzarnyflash kernel then compare mtd contents with the file?
13:46.04KotCzarnycheck other mtd partitions for changes?
13:46.16kerioKotCzarny: more like "break a page in the nand and then try flashing"
13:46.28DocScrutinizer05kerio: are the kernel-flasher .deb supposed to live on in some apt cache?
13:46.33ebzzryDocScrutinizer05: thanks. it's working now.
13:46.35keriono
13:46.38keriowelll
13:46.40DocScrutinizer05ebzzry: :-) yw
13:46.44kerionah it gets deleted at some point
13:46.46kerioit's not reliable
13:46.54kerioi think HAM does the equivalent of apt-get clean
13:47.01kerioapt-get clean also does the equivalent of apt-get clean
13:47.04DocScrutinizer05:nod:
13:47.19kerioflashing the kernel is just the wrong approach tbh
13:47.27kerioi stopped doing that on my sheevaplug
13:47.48DocScrutinizer05arguable, yes
13:47.59DocScrutinizer05but anyway for N900 BM...
13:48.03kerioubi; ubifsmount; ubifsload; ubifsload; ubifsumount; bootm
13:48.34kerioi was going to say "even recording which modules are available would be enough"
13:48.39keriobut that's just the contents of /lib/modules
13:48.46kerioso you could check that already, in theory
13:48.51kerioidk about dumping the kernel
13:48.57kerioversus "having it" somehow
13:49.07kerioand flashing it with the approved nokia flasher
13:49.38DocScrutinizer05is there a way to add hooks to apt-get install?
13:50.00keriowhat for
13:50.13keriothe .fiasco image gets deleted after -flasher does its thing
13:50.33kerioand what about custom kernels and the like?
13:50.42DocScrutinizer05a hook like... a script that gets called after each installed package and checks if that installed package was a kernel-flasher. And if yes, save it away to a BM depot instead of waiting for apt to do 'clean'
13:50.49keriobackupmenu is relying on the partition layout because it has to
13:51.09kerioPali: can you nanddump and nandwrite the kernel partition without bad side effects?
13:51.37DocScrutinizer05I already did iirc
13:52.34DocScrutinizer05kerio: you got a fany little (4MB?) initrd partition that's completely unused and looks like made for such experiments
13:52.47DocScrutinizer05pali is gone
13:52.56DocScrutinizer05oh, he's back
13:53.16DocScrutinizer05fancy*
13:53.56DocScrutinizer05however watch out, nanddump and particularly nandwrite don't know about partitions afaik
13:54.35KotCzarnykerio, check if you can read/writ /dev/mtd* with dd
13:54.37keriothey do
13:54.47DocScrutinizer05o.O
13:54.51keriothe mtd is divided into separate devices by the kernel
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13:55.16KotCzarnyyes, that way layout is untouched
13:55.23KotCzarnyand you dont have to worry about offsets
13:55.48keriobased on the partition layout that's either compiled into the kernel or passed via cmdline (mtdparts)
13:56.09DocScrutinizer05prolly you're right, was mtd_debug that doesn't, maybe
13:56.31DocScrutinizer05the latter
13:57.30DocScrutinizer05it's hardcoded to NOLO though
13:57.42DocScrutinizer05afaik
13:58.13keriowhat kind of performance hit would you take with full disk encryption on the n900's cpu?
13:58.34KotCzarnydepends, but its ~5-10M/s
13:58.43keriocan you even do full disk encryption with a mtd
13:58.56ebzzryHow does update-sudoers work?
13:59.07KotCzarnyyou have to boot somehow something
13:59.21KotCzarnyand nolo doesnt know about encryption
13:59.28kerioebzzry: /etc/sudoers can and will be rewritten arbitrarily as you install or remove packages
13:59.30KotCzarnyunless you want to move whole os into emmc
13:59.34kerioso add a file in /etc/sudoers.d
13:59.37kerioand run update-sudoers
13:59.41ebzzrykerio: ok
14:00.10kerioupdate-sudoers is basically just a glorified "cat /etc/sudoers.d/* > /etc/sudoers"
14:00.42KotCzarnythat way you can have some base in mtd with mount tools and pivot a t some point
14:01.15kerioi enabled full disk encryption on my laptop today
14:01.21kerioit feels native
14:01.43keriobut that's to be expected i guess
14:02.50KotCzarnyencrypted swap would slow down poor n900 even more
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14:03.45jon_ykerio: software disk encryption?
14:03.53kerioyes
14:04.01keriobut, i mean
14:04.15keriolibressl's benchmark reports 1.5GB/s of aes-128-gcm on one core
14:04.29jon_ywell, there is that MS thing for laptops using TPM
14:04.38kerioi wonder if libressl can do xts
14:04.44KotCzarnyi wouldnt trust anything m$ish
14:05.00KotCzarnyespecially if it has 'security' or 'encryption' in the name
14:05.34KotCzarnyunless all you want is to hide evidence from your wife
14:05.52ebzzryWhat is the name of "<" and ">" WRT to rx-51 keyboard file?
14:06.09KotCzarnymaybe its just literal < and  >
14:06.29keriohah, libressl can do 3.6GB/s of aes-128-xts
14:06.46KotCzarnykerio: aes-ni ?
14:06.47keriono wonder there's pretty much no performance hit
14:06.52jon_ytpm should be tied to several pounds of thermite
14:06.55kerioyep
14:07.06kerioi assume apple's filevault uses similarly performant libraries
14:07.20KotCzarnyit all depends on cpu
14:08.21kerioi7 something
14:08.23keriowith aes-ni, yes
14:08.27ebzzryKotCzarny: got it. less and greater
14:09.03KotCzarnyhuh, by literal i meant just a chars < and >
14:09.09KotCzarnyfunnily it worked for you
14:11.24Wizzup16:04 < kerio> libressl's benchmark reports 1.5GB/s of aes-128-gcm on one core
14:11.26Wizzupnot using aes-ni?
14:11.34kerioof course it was using aes-ni
14:11.51DocScrutinizer51ebzzry: lt and gt I guess
14:13.21KotCzarnyebzzry: anyway: https://wiki.maemo.org/Remapping_keyboard
14:13.33ebzzrythanks
14:13.39kerioi don't even think libressl compiles in the code that doesn't use aes-ni
14:14.34DocScrutinizer51as in &lt;  &gt:
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14:18.54Wizzupkerio: uh ... are you saying I can't use libressl on arm?
14:19.02Wizzupor on non-mobile intel
14:19.19kerioi'm saying that my libressl doesn't have any bytes that will do the inner aes rounds
14:19.21Wizzup(hint: of course they have software implementations, next to hardware engines)
14:19.39kerioif you want those you have to compile them in
14:19.59kerioi *think*
14:20.18keriobecause there used to be an envvar to forcibly disable the usage of aes-ni
14:20.24kerioand it doesn't work anymore
14:30.19KotCzarnyi would like ssl lib using via aes intructions
14:30.36KotCzarnyor just use kernel ones
14:30.43KotCzarny*kernel engines
14:31.28KotCzarny<PROTECTED>
14:32.08KotCzarnyits less and greater
14:32.32KotCzarnybracketleft is [ and breaceleft is {
14:32.42KotCzarny*brace
14:33.35KotCzarnyhttps://wiki.maemo.org/Remapping_keyboard#Switching_Layouts
14:33.39KotCzarnythis one is nice
14:33.53KotCzarnyimplementing special keys in hw map
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14:45.29ebzzryWhat package provides /usr/bin/keyboard-shortcut?
14:52.19KotCzarnydpkg -S /usr/bin/keyboard-shortcut
14:52.28ebzzrythanks
14:52.29ebzzryWhen I open the camera, I get "Operation failed", and all I see is black picture. Why?
14:52.46KotCzarnyebzzry, installed new kernel or camera drivers?
14:52.51KotCzarnyand forgot to reboot?
14:53.21ebzzryI have rebooted. I just installed kernel-power-flasher.
14:53.25ebzzryNo new camera drivers.
15:01.12KotCzarnystock camera app?
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15:16.07DocScrutinizer05ebzzry: uninstall and reinstall all camera apps
15:17.47DocScrutinizer05actually uninstall all camera apps, then reinstall whatever you like to have
15:18.44DocScrutinizer05powerkernel comes with nd cam drivers but those can't get updated as long as multiple packages depend on them - or sth along that line
15:19.48DocScrutinizer05ask Pali about details
15:25.07ebzzryI only have the stock camera app, and fcamera
15:25.18ebzzryfcamera works, but the built-in camera app doesn't.
15:25.26KotCzarnyi think fcamera installs fcam drivers
15:26.11ebzzryDocScrutinizer05: how can I uninstall all camera apps?
15:26.22KotCzarnygo into application manager?
15:26.39KotCzarnyor if you are happy with fcamera just set it as default action
15:26.42ebzzryCan the built-in camera app be uninstalled?
15:26.45KotCzarnyfor lens-cover-open
15:27.59ebzzryI want to have both, since the default output of FCamera is too dark.
15:28.15KotCzarnyum, no exposure option in fcamera?
15:28.20KotCzarnyunlikely
15:29.05ebzzrythere is, but the defaults suck compared to the built-in one.
15:29.42KotCzarnythere are few camera apps
15:30.05ebzzryWhen I open the RAW file, or the JPEG proof in a RAW processor, the tint is too high.
15:30.07KotCzarnydont remember which one is the most recommended one
15:30.18ebzzryAside from fcamera, what can you guys suggest?
15:30.25ebzzrythere's blessn900
15:30.39KotCzarnyanyway, bbl
15:31.09ebzzryWait, uninstalling camera-ui results in a reboot loop?
15:33.32ebzzryI thought I have to uninstall all camera apps?
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15:50.45ebzzryWhere's the flasher? http://tablets-dev.nokia.com seems to be down
15:54.51ebzzryFound it at www.fladnag.net/downloads/telephone/n900/tools/
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16:53.09KotCzarny~flashing
16:53.09infobotmaemo-flashing is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware, or - on linux PC - download&extract http://maemo.cloud-7.de/maemo5/patches_n_tools/maemo-my-private-workdir.tgz, cd into it, do sudo ./flash-it-all.sh
16:53.15KotCzarnygrab it, unpack, run
16:53.28KotCzarnyno need for additional tools (all included)
16:53.54KotCzarnyalso, yes, uninstalling core system packages can result in reboot loop
16:54.05KotCzarnyfremantle is very fragile in that sense
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17:03.10princefakhanHi guys!
17:03.57KotCzarnyfirst rule of irc, you never say 'hello' or 'bye', because you will never leave
17:04.07KotCzarnykind of hotel california for geeks
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17:06.01princefakhanLol. So true. I thought somehow I got away with this addiction.
17:06.47princefakhanBut now I realise that it was only that I had so much more going on with my life past these months.
17:06.55KotCzarnyo.O
17:07.12princefakhanAnd lo,  I am back again.
17:07.18KotCzarnygot married or something?
17:07.21princefakhanXD
17:07.30Siceloactually there's UGT
17:07.32Sicelo~ugt
17:07.32infobotmethinks ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html
17:07.41princefakhanNo. Passed high school.
17:08.01princefakhanAnd now I have no idea what to do.
17:08.07KotCzarnysicelo, unless your wife is calling
17:08.32princefakhanI was even thinking of leaving school for good,  as it is not doing any benefit to me.
17:08.57KotCzarnyyou either continue education or find practical sources of income
17:09.14princefakhanI was thinking of the later.
17:09.45KotCzarnyword you are thinking of is 'latter'
17:09.59KotCzarnyformer and latter
17:10.00princefakhanWell,  something I can learn from home,  like coding.
17:10.16princefakhanAh! Yes.
17:10.28KotCzarnykeep in mind code shops usually require some paper
17:10.33KotCzarnyunless you are good
17:11.27princefakhanMhmm
17:11.59princefakhanSo. What's up in the Maemo community.
17:12.07KotCzarnysame old
17:13.21princefakhanAny new developments? Last time I checked, our repository were gone for good and we were backing up all we could,  and create mirror repos.
17:13.31KotCzarny~maemo-repos
17:13.31infoboti heard maemo-repos is http://wiki.maemo.org/Repository#List_of_Maemo_repositories
17:14.38princefakhan:)
17:14.42KotCzarny2 at the moment, maybe i should add mine
17:15.30princefakhanAnd what's the progress on the rebasing of Maemo on latest Linux kernel.
17:15.54KotCzarnystill no working cmt-speech module
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17:15.56princefakhanOh! I think there are plenty more repos too.
17:16.31princefakhanOh! We will get around eventually.
17:17.14princefakhanAnd there was this Freemantle project?
17:17.27KotCzarnynever heard
17:17.36princefakhanI should maybe check the forums. :)
17:17.48KotCzarnyyes, that would be good starting point
17:18.31princefakhanYou know, so Maemo could run on other devices.  Specifically neo900
17:18.46princefakhan:P
17:18.57KotCzarnyyou should join #neo900 for that specific platform
17:20.19kerioi wonder if i can extend a ubifs partition "upwards"
17:20.49KotCzarnyprobably yes, but then only upward layer would write things
17:21.02KotCzarny(overlayfs?)
17:21.06keriono no
17:21.07keriolike
17:21.14keriobefore
17:21.22kerioin the mtd
17:21.28kerioas opposed to extending it afterwards
17:21.41keriowhich is a basic feature of pretty much every filesystem
17:21.50KotCzarnynand is scarce
17:22.08KotCzarnyi would leave it for battery charging/rescue/booting
17:22.08kerionot on my sheevaplug, i've got a kernel partition i'm no longer using
17:22.09kerio:>
17:22.18KotCzarnyahm, not n900 specific
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17:55.23ebzzrywhere does harmattan-black live? what repo?
17:55.34KotCzarnywhat?
17:55.46ebzzrythe theme
17:55.49KotCzarnyahm
17:56.15KotCzarnyhttp://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/fremantle/free/h/harmattan-black/
17:56.21KotCzarnylooks like extras-devel at least
17:56.22ebzzrythanks
17:56.23ebzzryA related question, what packages that are in -devel that you install
17:56.31KotCzarnyoscp
17:56.39KotCzarnypierogi
17:56.57KotCzarnyrest is from extras or cssu-thumb
17:57.29ebzzrydo you use cssu-thumb exclusively, that is without the other cssu-* repos?
17:57.45KotCzarnycssu-thumb enables cssu-testing i think
17:57.52KotCzarnyas it overlays it
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18:00.21ebzzryupon inspection of the .install file, it does.
18:00.44KotCzarnyif you plan on installing cssu-thumb do it via installer, then click enabler in apps
18:01.00KotCzarnyyou shouldnt just add repos
18:01.06ebzzryok
18:01.31ebzzrywhat is the disadvantage of just adding the repos?
18:01.39KotCzarnybroken system?
18:01.58KotCzarnyfor one it requires cssu kernel or power kernel
18:02.48ebzzryOK
18:02.59KotCzarnyalso it replaces some essential packages
18:03.02ebzzryBy the way, are the Nokia repos at http://maemo-repos.com/apt-mirror/ still relevant?
18:03.09KotCzarnyum
18:03.14KotCzarnynever seen that site
18:03.33ebzzryAre the Nokia repos still usable?
18:04.16KotCzarny~maemo-repos
18:04.17infobothmm... maemo-repos is http://wiki.maemo.org/Repository#List_of_Maemo_repositories
18:05.00ebzzrythanks.
18:05.09ebzzrywhat stuff are in the nokia repos that are deemed "important"?
18:05.35KotCzarnynothing you dont already have installed
18:06.26ebzzryKotCzarny: ok
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18:07.40KotCzarnybut sometimes if you play with os too much you would want to restore some package
18:07.55KotCzarny(without reflashing etc)
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