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| 00:55.27 | Oksana | <kerio>Oksana: *add* a portrait slider instead <-- How so? One more layer, to make it even more thick? And, on N900 Bluetooth-FM and WiFi are different chips. Maybe, WiFi can be fixed with hot air, but I am not an expert, so take care and research. |
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| 03:27.08 | Oksana | How to hunt down torx+ screwdrivers, and not just torx? |
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| 04:47.18 | Oksana | In short, I will likely go for http://www.ebay.com.au/itm/For-Nokia-N900-Repair-Opening-Dismantle-disassembly-Tool-s-Screwdriver-Set-4-pce-/270836864395 |
| 04:48.19 | Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: these days I just run CSSU Thumb with a Gentoo chroot |
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| 04:49.05 | Luke-Jr | I wonder if it could be the cable. When I put it on my portable battery charger, it went to 100% in ~30 min |
| 04:53.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, yes |
| 05:01.11 | Luke-Jr | DocScrutinizer05: know any way to get reliable cables? I've had bad luck just picking off NewEgg.. :/ |
| 05:01.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | dunno, most of mine seem to be fine |
| 05:03.03 | Oksana | So, Nokia N900 has TorxPlus IP4 screws? |
| 05:03.31 | Luke-Jr | hmm |
| 05:11.52 | Oksana | ~ping |
| 05:11.52 | infobot | 1 packet transmitted, 1 packet received, 0.0% packet loss |
| 05:25.54 | *** join/#maemo fortytwo (~thomas@who.let.this.bloody.dropbear.in) |
| 05:29.17 | KotCzarny | luke-jr: n900 needs >500mA to fully charge |
| 05:29.28 | Luke-Jr | KotCzarny: yeah, I was giving it 1A |
| 05:29.35 | Luke-Jr | supposedly |
| 05:29.42 | KotCzarny | especially if you have wifi/gsm on it could easily draw ~500 and not charge at the same time to full |
| 05:30.19 | KotCzarny | i've noticed that when i was fiddling with my secondary n900 on usb, it was charging and charging, and never turning green |
| 05:30.52 | KotCzarny | luke-jr: measure with multimeter or just buy some 'charge doctor usb meter' for 1.5usd on ebay |
| 05:33.11 | KotCzarny | cable was good, because then i just used the same cable, but with 1A charger instead of pc usb |
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| 05:36.45 | KotCzarny | Mem: 221868K used, 13384K free, 0K shrd, 13944K buff, 70624K cached |
| 05:36.55 | KotCzarny | cssu-thumb is nice when it comes to free mem |
| 05:36.56 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 05:37.02 | KotCzarny | (free+cached) |
| 05:41.40 | KotCzarny | freemangordon, would you find some time to recompile image-viewer, rtcom-call-ui, systemui ? and maybe browser* |
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| 05:46.35 | KotCzarny | (those are the top entries in top for now) |
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| 06:29.39 | zGrr | moin :) |
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| 06:43.56 | KotCzarny | oink |
| 06:49.35 | KotCzarny | eh, running maemo apps via DISPLAY=somelinuxhost fails in functionality |
| 06:49.44 | KotCzarny | bad hildon, bad! |
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| 06:56.26 | zGrr | yeah |
| 06:56.34 | zGrr | I've noticed that too. |
| 06:57.53 | zGrr | they must have had big problems with this if they disabled it. X is a mess. |
| 07:00.23 | KotCzarny | they just went their own way ignoring any *nix traditions |
| 07:01.36 | zGrr | it is easy to say that but there must have been a reason behind it. |
| 07:02.50 | KotCzarny | the only real reason would be 'no one thought anyone would want to do such thing' |
| 07:03.04 | KotCzarny | and lack of test/reqs in that matter |
| 07:03.28 | KotCzarny | freemangordon: fennec is missing libqtm-12-feedback dependency |
| 07:05.52 | zGrr | i can imagine, that i required at least several hacks to get the X working properly on n900. there could have been some serious compatibility issues with remote X. |
| 07:06.54 | KotCzarny | xshm fails for remote connections, that's expected, pity most hildonized things require that to display properly |
| 07:10.41 | *** join/#maemo florian (~fuchs@Maemo/community/contributor/florian) |
| 07:13.14 | kerio | wtf are you talking about |
| 07:13.34 | kerio | maemo apps are launched with a shared library compatibility layer that, for obvious reasons, doesn't copy the environment |
| 07:13.59 | kerio | use maemo-standalone or whatever |
| 07:14.03 | kerio | and you'll get your DISPLAY |
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| 07:14.43 | KotCzarny | Nokia-N900:~# maemo-standalone |
| 07:14.43 | KotCzarny | -sh: maemo-standalone: not found |
| 07:14.51 | kerio | maemo-summoner |
| 07:15.29 | kerio | you'll have to open the .launch binary |
| 07:15.38 | kerio | which isn't even a binary anyway |
| 07:15.52 | kerio | it's effectively some weird relocatable shared library |
| 07:16.13 | kerio | the shit one does instead of adding some more ram |
| 07:16.16 | KotCzarny | Nokia-N900:~# maemo-summoner /usr/bin/osso_calculator |
| 07:16.16 | KotCzarny | maemo-summoner: summoning '/usr/bin/osso_calculator' |
| 07:16.16 | KotCzarny | maemo-summoner: died loading invoked application: '/usr/bin/osso_calculator: cannot dynamically load executable' |
| 07:16.17 | kerio | fucking crazy |
| 07:16.28 | kerio | maemo-summoner /usr/bin/osso_calculator.launch |
| 07:16.46 | kerio | hm actually |
| 07:17.01 | kerio | wait osso_calculator is a real binary |
| 07:17.02 | kerio | nice |
| 07:21.20 | KotCzarny | i wonder why /etc/fstab is dynamically created on every boot |
| 07:39.36 | *** join/#maemo geaaru (~geaaru@host170-152-static.43-88-b.business.telecomitalia.it) |
| 07:41.30 | Maxdamantus | doesn't really like the idea of defining core filesystem layout with /etc/fstab |
| 07:41.54 | Maxdamantus | imo it should be there to make mounting things slightly easier for the user. |
| 07:42.06 | KotCzarny | um, *nix wasnt for users |
| 07:42.28 | KotCzarny | it was server os, and admin had the right for defining what mounts |
| 07:42.37 | Maxdamantus | eg, /boot isn't usually necessary, so put it in /etc/fstab so you can `mount /boot` when you do need it. |
| 07:42.52 | Maxdamantus | server? You mean time sharing? |
| 07:43.03 | KotCzarny | you can always define user mountable things with udev scripts |
| 07:43.10 | Maxdamantus | They didn't have servers and clients in the beginning. They just had a machine with a bunch of terminals attached. |
| 07:43.36 | KotCzarny | yes, and users didnt mount anything |
| 07:43.37 | Maxdamantus | (and the people on those terminals certainly used the OS) |
| 07:43.37 | kerio | i have a static fstab |
| 07:43.42 | kerio | because of reasons |
| 07:43.54 | Maxdamantus | It was designed to be usable. |
| 07:44.08 | Maxdamantus | in an era when "usable" meant using text editors like `ed` |
| 07:45.03 | KotCzarny | users are stupid, ie, they usually physically disconnect things without umounting |
| 07:45.49 | KotCzarny | and you either have to decide if you want performance or usability |
| 07:45.59 | Maxdamantus | It's stupid that filesystems still can't handle that. |
| 07:46.19 | KotCzarny | no device can handle powerloss in the middle of the write |
| 07:46.37 | Maxdamantus | .. yes, plenty of devices can. |
| 07:46.56 | KotCzarny | user class? |
| 07:47.26 | Maxdamantus | It's a limitation of the organisation of filesystems and software that means you should unmount things before removing them, not really hardware. |
| 07:48.07 | Maxdamantus | Removable devices often have a light that flashes during activity. |
| 07:48.10 | kerio | yeah we could just mount things without any cache |
| 07:48.26 | Maxdamantus | Theoretically, you should be able to just wait until it stops flashing; that should indicate that your transfers are done. |
| 07:48.31 | kerio | and lose ANY performance |
| 07:48.41 | KotCzarny | maxd, what about delayed writes |
| 07:49.07 | KotCzarny | user starts ejecting drive when os decides to flush buffers |
| 07:49.08 | kerio | KotCzarny: in Maxdamantus' world we have to mount things with sync,data=ordered |
| 07:49.15 | kerio | and open all files with O_DIRECT |
| 07:49.21 | Maxdamantus | kerio: no. Journalling is stupid. |
| 07:49.26 | kerio | haahhhahahahahahaha |
| 07:49.26 | KotCzarny | lol |
| 07:49.27 | kerio | HAHAHAHAHAHAHHAh |
| 07:49.28 | kerio | HAHAJJAHSFJAHSJFHAJSFHAJSF |
| 07:49.37 | Maxdamantus | kerio: the main filesystem on your phone doesn't journal. |
| 07:49.38 | kerio | ok you're definetely a troll |
| 07:50.01 | kerio | the main filesystem on my phone is ubifs |
| 07:50.04 | kerio | which is journaled |
| 07:50.06 | Maxdamantus | kerio: ubifs is fairly resiliant to power loss without journalling, because it was designed after everyone knew that journalling was a stupid way of solving that issue. |
| 07:50.07 | kerio | the other filesystem is ext4 |
| 07:50.09 | kerio | which is journaled |
| 07:50.13 | kerio | dude |
| 07:50.14 | KotCzarny | it's all about deciding how much performance/stability/usability to have |
| 07:50.15 | kerio | are you serious |
| 07:50.19 | kerio | ubifs is journaled |
| 07:50.21 | Maxdamantus | kerio: yes, I'm totally serious. |
| 07:50.30 | Maxdamantus | kerio: it's a log-based filesystem, not a journalled filesystem. |
| 07:50.43 | Maxdamantus | kerio: you can look this shit up. |
| 07:50.44 | kerio | UBIFS automatically replays its journal and recovers from crashes, ensuring that the on-flash data |
| 07:50.44 | kerio | structures are consistent. |
| 07:50.57 | kerio | ubifs is not a log-structured filesystem |
| 07:52.14 | Maxdamantus | Oh, okay, it's journalled. That's silly. |
| 07:52.42 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 07:52.48 | kerio | :) |
| 07:52.49 | Maxdamantus | Well, actually, it depends how it's implemented. |
| 07:53.54 | Maxdamantus | I suspect it's quite different to the "journalling" done by ext. |
| 07:54.10 | Maxdamantus | Since it works on top of MTD, so it should naturally be avoiding writing over things. |
| 07:54.44 | Maxdamantus | otherwise writes to the same file would keep writing to the same block (unless you're relying on a fancy FTL under your filesystem), which is bad. |
| 07:54.58 | KotCzarny | is emmc wear levelled? |
| 07:55.21 | Maxdamantus | Of course. It has a controller inside that manages that. |
| 07:55.48 | KotCzarny | i'm planning to move whole os to emmc or sd |
| 07:56.58 | Maxdamantus | http://lxr.free-electrons.com/source/fs/ubifs/journal.c#L26 |
| 07:57.08 | Maxdamantus | No copying. |
| 07:58.37 | Maxdamantus | unlike ext (where you need to specify ordered writes or full data journalling (writing twice) to provide the sort of guarantees that should be implicit) |
| 07:59.33 | Maxdamantus | also, 19:50:07 < kerio> the other filesystem is ext4 |
| 07:59.52 | KotCzarny | no stable ext4 for 2.6.28 |
| 08:00.01 | Maxdamantus | Theodor Ts'o (the maintainer of ext4) has said that filesystems should be moving towards something like btrfs rather than ext4. |
| 08:00.17 | KotCzarny | nor btrfs |
| 08:00.51 | KotCzarny | which is why having 4.x in fremantle would be awesome |
| 08:01.02 | KotCzarny | or in n900 os in general |
| 08:03.10 | KotCzarny | standard fremantle (without *.avi and *.mp3) is ~ 138M for rootfs, ~190M for home/opt and ~33M for mydocs |
| 08:04.05 | Maxdamantus | 2.9G /btrfs/bk/n900/homefs/150906.mnt/select/maemo5-root |
| 08:04.11 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 08:04.26 | KotCzarny | some chroot? |
| 08:04.31 | Maxdamantus | Yes. |
| 08:07.09 | Maxdamantus | just uses the ubifs as a portable initramfs. |
| 08:07.19 | Maxdamantus | er, mutable* |
| 08:07.51 | KotCzarny | um, isnt that eating memory? |
| 08:08.39 | Maxdamantus | orcus:/mnt/ubi/lib/modules# ls |
| 08:08.39 | Maxdamantus | 2.6.28-omap1 2.6.28-omap1-00001-ge37221b-dirty 2.6.28.10-cssu1 2.6.28.10-orcus 2.6.28.10-power53 2.6.28.10power40 3.14.0-rc1+ 3.18.0+ 3.18.0-rc6+ current |
| 08:08.43 | Maxdamantus | Memory? |
| 08:08.49 | KotCzarny | having initramfs |
| 08:09.00 | KotCzarny | unless you free it after boot |
| 08:09.04 | Maxdamantus | It's not an actual initramfs, but no, that wouldn't necessary eat memory. |
| 08:09.22 | Maxdamantus | or just remove the files. |
| 08:09.31 | KotCzarny | that's what i meant |
| 08:10.03 | Maxdamantus | currently has his laptop set up to use an actual initramfs as his root. |
| 08:10.17 | KotCzarny | let's stick to n900 as a subject |
| 08:10.27 | KotCzarny | pc can have gigs of mem |
| 08:11.07 | Maxdamantus | I think you can unmount the initramfs after doing a pivot_root. |
| 08:11.30 | KotCzarny | or just remove the files, as you've said |
| 08:11.45 | KotCzarny | still, some will remain mapped by init and things you ran before pivot |
| 08:12.15 | Maxdamantus | You shouldn't run init before pivoting. |
| 08:12.53 | KotCzarny | it won't be pid 1 then |
| 08:13.05 | Maxdamantus | Sure it will. |
| 08:13.15 | Maxdamantus | Don't fork, just exec. |
| 08:13.30 | Maxdamantus | #!/bin/sh |
| 08:13.34 | Maxdamantus | pivot_root .. |
| 08:13.37 | Maxdamantus | exec /sbin/init |
| 08:13.52 | KotCzarny | fair enough then |
| 08:16.21 | *** join/#maemo rm_work (rm_work@Maemo/community/cssu/rm-you) |
| 08:28.29 | KotCzarny | ~usbnet |
| 08:28.29 | infobot | it has been said that usbnet is at http://handhelds.org/z/wiki/How%20do%20I%20setup%20USB%20networking or and usbnet in 2.4.18 (desktop) is broken, you want to use > 2.4.19-pre2 or see windows usbnet for windows support or a patched version is at http://handhelds.org/~paxanima/usbnet/, or at http://zorian.kicks-ass.org/files/usbnet-2.4.21-rc7.tar.gz, or http://handhelds.org/~mallum/usbnet-2.4.20.patch, or dhcp over usbnet, ... |
| 08:28.38 | KotCzarny | 2.4? |
| 08:28.40 | KotCzarny | uhuhu |
| 08:28.45 | KotCzarny | ~listkeys usbnet |
| 08:28.58 | KotCzarny | ~usbnetworking |
| 08:28.58 | infobot | [usbnetworking] http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking, or http://wiki.maemo.org/N900_USB_networking |
| 08:29.45 | Maxdamantus | https://gist.githubusercontent.com/Maxdamantus/7de577f13311a77c0208/raw/bq150924-time-vs-mv.png |
| 08:30.45 | KotCzarny | maxd: what's that? |
| 08:31.19 | Maxdamantus | x is number of minutes into the day, y is mV of battery according to bq272.. |
| 08:31.49 | KotCzarny | you know that sampling it so often will drain the battery? |
| 08:32.08 | KotCzarny | also, same data you could get using battery-eye or similar |
| 08:32.10 | Maxdamantus | I can't imagine it being that significant. |
| 08:32.16 | Maxdamantus | It's every 5 seconds. |
| 08:32.32 | KotCzarny | uhuhu, often |
| 08:32.51 | Maxdamantus | and it's going through the kernel module, dunno when that looks at the registers. |
| 08:33.13 | KotCzarny | switch to 60s and compare |
| 08:33.13 | Maxdamantus | otherwise it's just a small amount of processing every 5 seconds and writing a bit to the eMMC. |
| 08:33.52 | Maxdamantus | it's computationally more efficient than doc's normal script. |
| 08:34.20 | Maxdamantus | though yes, still not optimal .. that probably wouldn't invoke something like sed. |
| 08:34.31 | KotCzarny | nope, that would involve c |
| 08:35.15 | KotCzarny | shell scripts are easy to write but are heavy on resources (compared to c) |
| 08:35.52 | Maxdamantus | It's still fairly insignificant in this case. |
| 08:36.00 | KotCzarny | still, for a quickie change 5s into 60s and compare |
| 08:36.05 | Maxdamantus | It's basically just invoking a sed process every 5 seconds. |
| 08:36.23 | Maxdamantus | Everything else is in the shell. |
| 08:36.39 | Maxdamantus | (the normal script invokes i2c lots of times) |
| 08:36.41 | KotCzarny | if there is noticeable difference you will know its draining |
| 08:38.10 | Maxdamantus | real 0m17.231s |
| 08:38.10 | Maxdamantus | user 0m0.563s |
| 08:38.31 | Maxdamantus | so about 3% CPU. |
| 08:38.44 | Maxdamantus | dunno what clock speed. |
| 08:39.01 | Maxdamantus | probably 200 MHz |
| 08:39.02 | KotCzarny | any % cpu > idle/sleeping cpu |
| 08:39.31 | KotCzarny | and 0.5s every 5s? |
| 08:39.54 | Maxdamantus | No. |
| 08:40.03 | Maxdamantus | 0.5s every 17.2s |
| 08:40.35 | KotCzarny | it's 508s per 24h |
| 08:40.56 | KotCzarny | so it's like turning it for 10min daily |
| 08:41.10 | Maxdamantus | Yeah, so far less than I used on the bus. |
| 08:41.34 | KotCzarny | still, do the 5s -> 60s comparison |
| 08:41.43 | *** join/#maemo lxp (~lxp@unaffiliated/lxp) |
| 08:41.57 | KotCzarny | *comparision |
| 08:42.15 | Maxdamantus | which was around 1050â1090 on that graph. |
| 08:43.16 | KotCzarny | in related news, i've observed new lowest mV on my device, 4.2mV in idle |
| 08:44.08 | Maxdamantus | mV or mA? |
| 08:47.20 | Maxdamantus | wonders if it's going to go for another day. |
| 08:53.14 | KotCzarny | mA |
| 08:57.49 | *** join/#maemo qwazix_ (~qwazix@77-9-82.static.cyta.gr) |
| 09:08.58 | *** join/#maemo LauRoman (~LauRoman@5-14-15-167.residential.rdsnet.ro) |
| 09:14.16 | KotCzarny | update, on another device its 3.7mA |
| 09:15.16 | KotCzarny | 370h of standby time? |
| 09:20.34 | *** join/#maemo eMHa__ (~mh@185.36.21.1) |
| 09:21.55 | *** join/#maemo N-Mi (~nicolas@calvix/staff/N-Mi) |
| 09:25.48 | Wizzup | Maxdamantus: that can prevent the phone from sleeping/idling |
| 09:26.09 | *** join/#maemo cpt_nemo (cpt_nemo@rfc1459.de) |
| 09:27.22 | Maxdamantus | Stuff already seems to do that. |
| 09:27.31 | Maxdamantus | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:27.48 | KotCzarny | fix your setup? |
| 09:28.21 | Maxdamantus | I don't know enough about what RTComMessagingServer does to fix it. |
| 09:28.32 | Maxdamantus | I think it's just normally there in Maemo. |
| 09:28.35 | *** join/#maemo futpib (~futpib@176.104.194.78) |
| 09:28.38 | Maxdamantus | doing .. stuff |
| 09:28.46 | KotCzarny | noope |
| 09:29.00 | KotCzarny | also, second number is cpu usage, first is mem |
| 09:29.02 | KotCzarny | 23989 1243 user S 24188 10.2 0.0 /usr/sbin/browserd -s 23989 -n RTComMessagingServer |
| 09:29.11 | KotCzarny | so its 0.0 |
| 09:29.54 | KotCzarny | press shift-p to sort by cpu usage |
| 09:30.11 | Maxdamantus | It's sorted by CPU usage by default. |
| 09:30.58 | KotCzarny | anyway, notice that for those 0.0 cpu fields they are sorted by mem usage |
| 09:31.12 | KotCzarny | so its not that browserd doing more than anything below |
| 09:36.31 | *** join/#maemo vakkov (~vakkov@ic-s221n18.brunel.ac.uk) |
| 09:37.19 | KotCzarny | hmm |
| 09:37.23 | KotCzarny | FATAL: Error inserting g_ether (/lib/modules/2.6.28.10-power53/g_ether.ko): Device or resource busy |
| 09:37.31 | KotCzarny | bme is blocking usb networking? |
| 09:37.43 | Maxdamantus | You need to remove any other g_ modules. |
| 09:37.51 | Maxdamantus | like g_nokia or g_file_storage |
| 09:37.58 | KotCzarny | uhum |
| 09:38.20 | KotCzarny | thx, worked |
| 09:38.25 | Maxdamantus | I don't think bme is able to block the kernel loading modules. |
| 09:38.42 | KotCzarny | it g_file_storage was loaded even if device was in 'charging only' state |
| 09:38.52 | Wizzup | it does that, yes |
| 09:39.02 | Maxdamantus | Yeah, I never understood that dialogue. |
| 09:39.02 | Wizzup | but it just exports an empty block device then iirc |
| 09:39.03 | KotCzarny | it should be considered a bug |
| 09:39.23 | Maxdamantus | wants to remove that. |
| 09:39.37 | Maxdamantus | thinks he remembers tracing it down to something in ke-recv. |
| 09:40.18 | Maxdamantus | Annoying having the screen activate just because you plug it in to charge. |
| 09:40.42 | KotCzarny | yeah, it should be done as status bar applet |
| 09:40.50 | KotCzarny | with last-mode remembered |
| 09:41.47 | Maxdamantus | loads g_ether in rcS-late, so ke-recv or whatever fails to load g_file_storage or whatever. |
| 09:41.52 | KotCzarny | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:41.52 | KotCzarny | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:42.06 | KotCzarny | i think you can play with that |
| 09:42.22 | Maxdamantus | Hm. |
| 09:42.29 | KotCzarny | <PROTECTED> |
| 09:43.02 | Maxdamantus | I think I already have that. |
| 09:43.16 | Maxdamantus | it still wakes the screen up and shows the dialogue. |
| 09:43.50 | KotCzarny | i mean, to control whatever runs from hal |
| 09:44.22 | KotCzarny | thx for the ke-recv pointer, will hunt it later |
| 09:45.46 | Maxdamantus | I think I might've just stopped running ke-recv at some point, but I think that prevented the camera application from working. |
| 09:45.52 | Maxdamantus | can't remember. |
| 09:46.23 | Maxdamantus | It seems like the sort of stuff I don't want anyway. |
| 09:49.25 | KotCzarny | can you still set usb mode? |
| 09:49.34 | KotCzarny | (without cmdline) |
| 09:50.13 | Maxdamantus | Dunno. I've always done that using a command line. |
| 09:50.36 | KotCzarny | ie. if you plug usb, do you have a usb button in status bar? |
| 09:50.50 | Maxdamantus | Without ke-recv? Can't remember. |
| 09:52.15 | Wizzup | 11:40 < KotCzarny> with last-mode remembered |
| 09:52.17 | Wizzup | really? ;) |
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| 09:52.40 | KotCzarny | wizzup, well, would work for 'charing only' for me |
| 09:52.41 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 09:52.45 | Wizzup | sure. |
| 09:52.54 | KotCzarny | and enabling g_ether at all times |
| 09:53.02 | Wizzup | Not when it remembers g_file_storage |
| 09:53.10 | Wizzup | (that would be annoying) |
| 09:53.23 | KotCzarny | right now it behaves like broken g_file_storage |
| 09:53.24 | Wizzup | KotCzarny: wrt usb mode, there's a very nice applet to do it |
| 09:53.34 | KotCzarny | ie. module loaded, but no driver mountable |
| 09:53.35 | Maxdamantus | Damn it, VDQ disappeared. |
| 09:53.54 | KotCzarny | vdq not importants, ci importants |
| 09:54.10 | Maxdamantus | VDQ important if you're trying to calibrate to a new battery. |
| 09:54.11 | KotCzarny | unless you are in the middle of calibration |
| 09:54.24 | KotCzarny | wizzup: name? |
| 09:54.39 | Maxdamantus | it went off an hour and fifteen minutes ago. |
| 09:55.01 | KotCzarny | maxd: maybe you've connected usb or something |
| 09:55.18 | Maxdamantus | I haven't connected USB. |
| 09:55.23 | Wizzup | KotCzarny: sorry, for host mode or swithing g_applets |
| 09:55.39 | KotCzarny | nah, no need for host mode (atm) |
| 09:56.04 | KotCzarny | but i would like usb charing/storage/pcsuite mode switchable without reconnecting the cable |
| 09:56.10 | KotCzarny | (via applet button) |
| 09:56.12 | Maxdamantus | it's been saying 6% charge for four hours. |
| 09:56.21 | Maxdamantus | and is still at 3.7 V |
| 09:56.29 | Wizzup | KotCzarny: right, no, the applet only allows switching initially |
| 09:56.34 | Maxdamantus | (it doesn't go lower than 6%) |
| 09:56.34 | KotCzarny | maxd: some weird battery stup? |
| 09:56.39 | Wizzup | but it doesn't allow switching from say 'pc suite mode' to 'none' |
| 09:56.43 | Wizzup | so then you need to use cmdline |
| 09:56.49 | Maxdamantus | No, bq just doesn't seem to go lower than 6% |
| 09:56.56 | KotCzarny | wizzup, seems like trivial thing to write |
| 09:57.00 | KotCzarny | TODOed |
| 09:57.07 | Maxdamantus | so supposedly my other battery would've run out four hours ago. |
| 09:57.47 | KotCzarny | maxd: there was some nice guide for calibrating baterries with very big differences since the last one used |
| 09:58.24 | KotCzarny | *batteries |
| 10:03.31 | Maxdamantus | Maybe the trick is to just use the power quickly. |
| 10:04.35 | Maxdamantus | Oh, interesting. It actually does go below 6% |
| 10:04.42 | Maxdamantus | after VDQ = 0 |
| 10:05.01 | Maxdamantus | while VDQ = 1, it was just sitting at 6% for hours. |
| 10:41.26 | Maxdamantus | The earphones I should be getting in a couple of days have an angled connector, which should be relatively convenient for the N900. |
| 10:49.01 | KotCzarny | hmm |
| 10:49.27 | KotCzarny | one nice thing about using g_ether and not g_mass_storage will be easy file sharing |
| 10:49.49 | KotCzarny | and it will no longer require mounting/umounting at the n900's side |
| 10:51.22 | KotCzarny | no nfsd in default cssu kernel? |
| 10:58.01 | KotCzarny | http://members.inode.at/anton.zechner/az/AzSmb.en.htm |
| 10:58.08 | KotCzarny | The program code needs 250 kByte. |
| 10:58.12 | KotCzarny | sounds doable |
| 10:58.18 | KotCzarny | let's see if it compiles |
| 11:10.05 | ceene | is thumb the same as thumb2? |
| 11:10.15 | KotCzarny | ~thumb |
| 11:10.15 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, cssu-thumb is <Doc_Scrutinizer05> [thumb2 microb] indeed seems to render like mad, subjectively, or http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1220597, or http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU/Thumb |
| 11:10.26 | KotCzarny | see the links |
| 11:10.58 | KotCzarny | but yes, compile wise using -thumb enables thumb2 |
| 11:11.11 | ceene | that was the doubt, thanks |
| 11:11.20 | ceene | ours is a Cortex-A8? |
| 11:11.29 | KotCzarny | yes |
| 11:11.33 | ceene | Processor: ARMv7 Processor rev 3 (v7l) |
| 11:11.38 | ceene | shouldn't it say ARMv8 then? |
| 11:11.43 | KotCzarny | nope |
| 11:11.50 | ceene | oh |
| 11:11.51 | KotCzarny | its different thing |
| 11:12.17 | KotCzarny | cortex-a8 is armv7 |
| 11:12.43 | ceene | i hate all those confusing names |
| 11:12.56 | KotCzarny | marketing, always an evil thing |
| 11:13.48 | KotCzarny | but mind you, if you compile with thumb, binary wont run on stock kernel |
| 11:13.54 | KotCzarny | (needs cssu or power kernel) |
| 11:13.58 | Wizzup | 12:51 < KotCzarny> no nfsd in default cssu kernel? |
| 11:14.00 | Wizzup | use sshfs? |
| 11:14.04 | ceene | i always run latest power kernel |
| 11:14.26 | KotCzarny | wizzup: can you turn off encryption with sshfs? |
| 11:14.50 | KotCzarny | ceene: just a warning if you ever compile extras app |
| 11:16.29 | Wizzup | KotCzarny: yes, you can pick a none encryption. |
| 11:16.38 | Wizzup | Do you see the encryption as a problem? |
| 11:16.58 | Wizzup | I don't think it'll matter much unless you're sending a *LOT* of data and have a deadline |
| 11:18.05 | KotCzarny | wizzup, cpu hog |
| 11:18.30 | KotCzarny | and unneeded when connecting via usb cable |
| 11:23.47 | Wizzup | hates nfs |
| 11:24.12 | KotCzarny | why? |
| 11:27.46 | Wizzup | KotCzarny: the stupid security model (it had/has), the fact that you usually need root for it, and I think there are much nicer solutions out there |
| 11:27.49 | Wizzup | sshfs being just one of them |
| 11:27.54 | Wizzup | Could also use 9P |
| 11:28.27 | KotCzarny | yeah, it came from time when rsh was password less |
| 11:28.29 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 11:28.40 | KotCzarny | but on secure network it's pretty nice |
| 11:30.29 | kerio | i'm pretty sure that sshfs is even less posixy than nfs |
| 11:34.00 | Wizzup | What does that have to do with POSIX? |
| 11:34.22 | BCMM | don't you need root for sshfs too? i thought it's just hidden behind the SUID /usr/bin/fusermount binary |
| 11:35.12 | Wizzup | BCMM: no, not at all |
| 11:35.19 | Wizzup | You interface with /dev/fuse |
| 11:35.30 | Wizzup | although, yes, fusermount is suid |
| 11:38.20 | BCMM | well, sshfs doesn't work for me if i take the SUID bit off fusermount :) |
| 11:39.01 | KotCzarny | what a surprise |
| 11:39.02 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 11:39.24 | Wizzup | BCMM: What you're stating is that using "su" also always "requires" root |
| 11:39.31 | Wizzup | Where the fact is that I, as non root user, can invoke su. |
| 11:39.36 | Wizzup | The same is true for FUSE programs. |
| 11:39.41 | Wizzup | I don't need to be root to use/invoke them. |
| 11:39.56 | Wizzup | I'm not sure if the fallacy is intentional |
| 11:40.04 | BCMM | fair enough. i suppose what i'm wondering is, is there a reason one couldn't have a similar system for nfs? |
| 11:40.36 | BCMM | in which a bit of SUID userspace lets a user set up an NFS mount while making sure that user doesn't put the mount anywhere he shouldn't be allowed to and so on |
| 11:40.53 | KotCzarny | i wonder if one could sshfs mount over /usr/bin even with suid (or it has some protection) |
| 11:40.56 | BCMM | or do non-FUSE filesystems have some inherent danger that makes it impossible to set it up like that |
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| 11:43.21 | Wizzup | KotCzarny: or course not |
| 11:43.30 | Wizzup | KotCzarny: you need to own your mountpoint |
| 11:43.35 | Wizzup | BCMM: you can probably implement nfs in userspace, I guess |
| 11:43.43 | BCMM | that's not what i meant |
| 11:43.59 | Wizzup | on my university they used this (root-only nfs) as some kind of security |
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| 11:44.19 | Wizzup | of course, taking out the cable, plugging in the cable in your laptop, spoofing mac was a trivial way to access all the data/files |
| 11:44.28 | KotCzarny | yup |
| 11:45.01 | BCMM | it's that it seems, to me, like the reason you can sshfs as a normal user isn't that the driver runs as a user so much as that there is a SUID binary which will do the root stuff for you and make sure you can't do bad things |
| 11:45.17 | Wizzup | well, mount is suid too |
| 11:45.24 | BCMM | and i'm wondering whether that is inherently impossible with a kernel-mode filesystem driver, and why |
| 11:45.59 | Wizzup | I mean, you can write some suid command that does what mount does, without any checks. |
| 11:46.22 | Wizzup | but the example I just gave is already a reason it is probably not allowed: many people rely on it (stupidly) for security |
| 11:47.23 | KotCzarny | sense of security is worse than insecurity |
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| 12:48.08 | Maxdamantus | 23:43:35 < Wizzup> BCMM: you can probably implement nfs in userspace, I guess |
| 12:48.29 | Maxdamantus | I think traditionally, they also require that you connect from a port under 1024. |
| 12:48.51 | KotCzarny | which is weak security measure |
| 12:49.08 | Wizzup | Maxdamantus: yes, but I was not sure about that :) |
| 12:49.09 | KotCzarny | but doable with fusermount suid |
| 12:49.14 | Maxdamantus | It's not weak if you have complete control over the network. |
| 12:49.22 | Wizzup | Maxdamantus: generally you don |
| 12:49.24 | Wizzup | 't though |
| 12:49.28 | Wizzup | as I demonstrated above |
| 12:49.28 | KotCzarny | maxd: see ethernet cable example above |
| 12:49.40 | Maxdamantus | if you can take out a network cable and plug it into your own device and use it, you don't. |
| 12:49.45 | Wizzup | :) |
| 12:50.09 | KotCzarny | i remember doing such tricks in my school |
| 12:50.14 | KotCzarny | fun times |
| 12:50.22 | KotCzarny | rootfs was nfs mounted |
| 12:50.39 | KotCzarny | and it was as easy as booting your own os from usb or laptop |
| 12:50.58 | KotCzarny | or even floppy |
| 12:51.10 | KotCzarny | (those were the times when kernel could fit there |
| 12:52.51 | Wizzup | KotCzarny: tried ARP poisoning? |
| 12:52.56 | Wizzup | That would literally kill all machines |
| 12:53.07 | KotCzarny | arp was set statically |
| 12:53.10 | KotCzarny | on server |
| 12:53.22 | KotCzarny | not that it prevented me booting my lappy |
| 12:53.23 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 12:53.29 | KotCzarny | and accessing network |
| 12:54.15 | KotCzarny | and i was friends with sysadmin there, so it was fun not cracking |
| 12:55.57 | KotCzarny | i think the only way to be secure would be vpn for each machine (with secure key stored in bios and inaccessible for reading, only for signing |
| 12:57.09 | Wizzup | kerberos does this |
| 12:57.12 | Wizzup | more or less |
| 13:02.09 | KotCzarny | hmm |
| 13:02.21 | KotCzarny | is there some virtual mass storage device for linux? |
| 13:02.42 | Maxdamantus | What do you mean? |
| 13:02.52 | Maxdamantus | A device you can serve with g_file_storage? |
| 13:02.58 | Maxdamantus | You can serve any file with that. |
| 13:02.59 | KotCzarny | more like file |
| 13:03.14 | KotCzarny | can g_file_storage work with g_ether? |
| 13:03.20 | Maxdamantus | No. |
| 13:03.30 | KotCzarny | is there any composite driver for n900? |
| 13:04.38 | KotCzarny | what i'm after is to server MyDocs via tinysmb and provide minimal autorun for windows |
| 13:05.05 | KotCzarny | (to configure usb0 interface on windows and mount folder automatically) |
| 13:05.38 | KotCzarny | hmm, for the former i just need little dhcpd |
| 13:05.46 | KotCzarny | still, need the latter too |
| 13:07.15 | Maxdamantus | You could serve a fuse-backed filesystem that detects a particular write pattern |
| 13:07.41 | Maxdamantus | and uses that to trigger the unloading of g_file_storage and loading of g_ether. |
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| 13:09.33 | Maxdamantus | (so you include a program/script that tries to write a particular message somewhere to the virtualised filesystem, the fuse code notices that write and triggers the g_ether loading) |
| 13:10.01 | Maxdamantus | (the program/script will also configure the network once it sees the USB ethernet device) |
| 13:10.04 | Maxdamantus | sleeps. |
| 13:12.34 | Maxdamantus | on a related note, you can sometimes hack devices like TVs using similar mechanisms. |
| 13:13.36 | Maxdamantus | device reads file from drive, checks its type, then rereads it to run it knowing that it's a safe type. |
| 13:14.20 | Maxdamantus | can obviously simulate a drive that returns something else the second time. |
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| 13:24.33 | Wizzup | KotCzarny: 9p? |
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| 13:32.51 | KotCzarny | wizzup: hum? |
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| 15:08.32 | Wizzup | .seen pali |
| 15:08.37 | Wizzup | ~seen pali |
| 15:08.38 | infobot | pali <~pali@Maemo/community/contributor/Pali> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 14d 17h 20m 16s ago, saying: '~poettering'. |
| 15:08.57 | Wizzup | ~poettering |
| 15:08.57 | infobot | 'sth is poettering' means it acts invasive, possessive, destructive, and generally in an egocentric exacerbating negative way. ``this cancer is extremely poettering'', or you look here for Linus' notion on what's poettering: http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1404.0/01331.html, or http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1404.0/01488.html, or see ~systemd cabal |
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| 15:54.16 | freemangordon | Pali: what was the piece of SW I was supposed to RE? some plugin iirc. jabber? |
| 16:10.54 | Wizzup | Pali: hi, I was wondering if you have usb host and nokia_modem working on your 4.1.0-rc4 kernel. I've been playing with it, and a lot just works! |
| 16:12.34 | Wizzup | http://sprunge.us/DCYF |
| 16:14.44 | Wizzup | let me check the dts I guess |
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| 17:55.20 | Pali | freemangordon: yes, rtcom accounts ui jabber |
| 17:55.27 | Pali | same as you did for gmail plugin |
| 17:55.51 | Pali | Wizzup: usb host mode with 4.x kernel? |
| 17:55.57 | Pali | nope, I did not get it working |
| 17:56.18 | Pali | but modem with Maemo sw worked (some 3.x version) |
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| 18:13.30 | Wizzup | Pali: were you using nokia_modem as module or built in? |
| 18:13.48 | Wizzup | and wrt host mode: I mostly could not try because the entries in /proc were missing |
| 18:18.13 | Pali | Wizzup: host - mode - becase proc is not used |
| 18:18.20 | Pali | debugfs instead |
| 18:18.36 | Pali | nokia modem is .ko file |
| 18:19.02 | Wizzup | Pali: yes, I realised @ /proc, I was in sysfs but did not manage (yet) |
| 18:19.15 | Wizzup | Okay, I get this when I probe it: http://sprunge.us/DCYF |
| 18:19.21 | Wizzup | (when I probe nokia_modem) |
| 18:19.31 | Wizzup | P.s. Very happy with your kernel branch |
| 18:19.39 | Wizzup | I'm slowly just trying to get each item to work |
| 18:19.41 | Pali | are you using my git branch? |
| 18:19.44 | Wizzup | Yes |
| 18:19.44 | Pali | or upstream? |
| 18:19.50 | Wizzup | Your branch |
| 18:19.59 | Pali | ok |
| 18:20.03 | Wizzup | v4.1-rc4-n900 |
| 18:20.11 | freemangordon | Wizzup: try newer |
| 18:20.20 | Wizzup | There is a newer one? |
| 18:20.26 | freemangordon | nokia-modem is upstreamed iirc |
| 18:20.34 | Wizzup | right, it is, in 4.1 |
| 18:20.38 | Wizzup | -rc1 |
| 18:20.53 | Wizzup | this is Pali's "latest" at least |
| 18:21.04 | freemangordon | https://github.com/pali/linux-n900/tree/v4.2-rc2-n900 |
| 18:21.09 | Wizzup | I will give 4.3 a try later, right now I wanted a decent defconfig and just to see if I can things to work |
| 18:21.10 | Pali | Wizzup: try 4.2-rc2-n900 |
| 18:21.14 | Wizzup | freemangordon: ... hmm .. I'm an idiot :) |
| 18:21.22 | freemangordon | if you say so :P |
| 18:21.24 | Wizzup | Ok - will try that soon! |
| 18:21.27 | Pali | and maybe you can try to revert commit 1bb03c60d30515e590054007e64525c428840120 |
| 18:21.41 | Pali | at least I have reverted it in my local copy (not pushed) |
| 18:21.46 | Pali | do not remember why |
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| 18:21.53 | kerio | can you use linux 4 with the current maemo userland? |
| 18:22.07 | Wizzup | That is a lot of good info. |
| 18:22.11 | Wizzup | kerio: doubt it |
| 18:22.16 | freemangordon | kerio: I see no reason why not |
| 18:22.29 | kerio | Pali: -bootimg pls |
| 18:22.32 | freemangordon | Wizzup: the last i've tried was 3.19 iirc |
| 18:22.38 | Pali | kerio: compile yourself |
| 18:22.44 | kerio | nuoooo :c |
| 18:22.48 | Wizzup | freemangordon: ok |
| 18:23.10 | Wizzup | Anyway, once I get UMTS, calls and host mode to work the real fun starts |
| 18:23.26 | freemangordon | Wizzup: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1459970&postcount=142 |
| 18:23.32 | Wizzup | freemangordon: interesting |
| 18:23.42 | Wizzup | I guess that was pali's? |
| 18:23.47 | Wizzup | (since powervr doesn't work with mainline, afaik) |
| 18:24.03 | Pali | Wizzup: reverting that commit is needed for sscd maemo daemon to work |
| 18:24.06 | freemangordon | unfortunately lately I have no time to continue playing with it, hopefully will have soon |
| 18:24.14 | Wizzup | Pali: I see, I don't boot to maemo though |
| 18:24.27 | Wizzup | freemangordon: nice :) |
| 18:24.29 | freemangordon | Wizzup: yes, Pali's branch |
| 18:24.35 | Pali | and if you do not want to use maemo userspace, do not revert that commit |
| 18:24.43 | Pali | plus look at param nokia_modem.pm |
| 18:25.04 | Pali | you need to switch it to make and export gpios for turning on/off modem |
| 18:25.11 | Wizzup | Where do I find a .pm file? (sorry for being a noob) |
| 18:25.17 | Pali | it is not file |
| 18:25.20 | Pali | it is parameter |
| 18:25.24 | Wizzup | oh, I see |
| 18:25.31 | Wizzup | I thought turning on the modem was done using ofono |
| 18:25.32 | Pali | modinfo nokia_modem.ko |
| 18:25.37 | Wizzup | ack |
| 18:25.38 | Wizzup | TMYK :) |
| 18:25.47 | Wizzup | (I did not know about modinfo) |
| 18:25.52 | Pali | see /proc/cmdline |
| 18:25.59 | Wizzup | Back in a bit. :) |
| 18:26.03 | Pali | that set nokia_modem param needed for maemo/sscd |
| 18:26.09 | Pali | and you need to overwrite it |
| 18:26.31 | Wizzup | Ok, I will once I have the device. I will be home in 60 minutes and then I can retry it |
| 18:28.22 | freemangordon | Pali: hmm, seems I have done most of the jabber ui RE work |
| 18:28.27 | freemangordon | :) |
| 18:28.55 | freemangordon | I just need to gather the pieces |
| 18:30.14 | Wizzup | freemangordon: did you make many changes to maemo to get that kernel to boot? |
| 18:30.29 | Wizzup | slash work |
| 18:30.30 | freemangordon | Wizzup: sure, but better ask Pali |
| 18:30.41 | freemangordon | he has some scripts alreay in place |
| 18:30.43 | Wizzup | I'm not too interested in maemo right now, in combination with mainline kernel |
| 18:30.44 | freemangordon | ~pali |
| 18:30.44 | infobot | hmm... pali is http://atrey.karlin.mff.cuni.cz/~pali/ |
| 18:30.50 | Wizzup | Just wondering |
| 18:31.32 | freemangordon | hmm, unfortunately they are missing from the page |
| 18:31.57 | Wizzup | No problem |
| 18:32.10 | Wizzup | I'm trying to get gentoo to work, and I'm trying to find a mobile ui for it |
| 18:32.13 | freemangordon | Pali: where were those scripts that copy maemo to uSD? |
| 18:32.16 | Wizzup | so I'm quite alright for now |
| 18:32.22 | Wizzup | mostly I want to see if I can get the modem to work first |
| 18:32.41 | freemangordon | Wizzup: modem works just fine, in data mode ofc |
| 18:32.55 | Wizzup | doesn't that require ofono as well |
| 18:33.05 | Wizzup | I mean, like I said, the module doesnt probe yet |
| 18:33.08 | Wizzup | for me |
| 18:33.08 | freemangordon | you need nokia PA modules for voice |
| 18:33.10 | Wizzup | I will try it soon |
| 18:33.13 | Wizzup | I have it |
| 18:33.19 | freemangordon | yep, it requires ofono |
| 18:33.30 | freemangordon | you have nokia PA modules? |
| 18:33.36 | freemangordon | are you sure? |
| 18:33.40 | Wizzup | Oh, no. No. I don't |
| 18:33.42 | Wizzup | I misread. |
| 18:34.01 | freemangordon | Wizzup: we have 2 of 3 REed |
| 18:34.04 | Wizzup | Any info on this? I mean, mailing list threads that I can read |
| 18:34.05 | Wizzup | ah... cool |
| 18:34.34 | freemangordon | the last and the most interesting (nokia-voice) is still not. and it is not a single man task |
| 18:34.57 | Wizzup | I have some RE knowledge |
| 18:35.08 | Wizzup | (not a lot of time in these two weeks, but later on perhaps) |
| 18:36.47 | freemangordon | Wizzup: https://notabug.org/freemangordon/pulseaudio-nokia |
| 18:37.29 | freemangordon | Wizzup: branch fremantle |
| 18:38.59 | freemangordon | Wizzup: if you want to contribute to nokia-voice module REing, I'll continue my work on it. |
| 18:39.28 | freemangordon | https://notabug.org/freemangordon/pulseaudio-nokia/src/fremantle/src/voice |
| 18:42.43 | Wizzup | (I'm looking at your links) |
| 18:42.50 | freemangordon | ok |
| 18:43.25 | freemangordon | Wizzup: most of he code in voice module exists in meego nokia-voice, which is open-sourced |
| 18:43.31 | Wizzup | so this is a decompile, and now we have to rework the code? |
| 18:44.03 | freemangordon | https://github.com/nemomobile/pulseaudio-modules-nemo/tree/master/src/voice |
| 18:44.13 | freemangordon | Wizzup: what is a "decompile"? |
| 18:44.40 | freemangordon | Wizzup: "record" and "music" modules are fully REed and functioning |
| 18:44.48 | Wizzup | alright |
| 18:44.54 | Wizzup | https://notabug.org/freemangordon/pulseaudio-nokia/src/fremantle/src/voice/module-voice-userdata.h |
| 18:45.07 | Wizzup | I thought that this was decompiled somehow, at least, that seems to make sense |
| 18:45.16 | Wizzup | because of int field_244; |
| 18:45.21 | freemangordon | ah, yes |
| 18:45.26 | freemangordon | it is a QIP |
| 18:45.30 | freemangordon | *WIP |
| 18:45.38 | Wizzup | I understood |
| 18:45.42 | freemangordon | unfinished, obviously :) |
| 18:46.17 | freemangordon | REing that structure is the most demanding task |
| 18:47.03 | freemangordon | and it is far from being done |
| 18:47.40 | KotCzarny | hmm, does it work when compiled after decompilation? |
| 18:48.01 | Wizzup | I will need some time to get some context, etc. I've mostly used maemo, not done that much development on/with maemo |
| 18:48.03 | freemangordon | KotCzarny: never tried it |
| 18:48.13 | Wizzup | KotCzarny: would not be too surprised, but yeah |
| 18:48.32 | freemangordon | KotCzarny: the "working" modules are not a simple IDA decompile |
| 18:48.39 | KotCzarny | few times i've tried decompiling things they broke after recompilation |
| 18:48.47 | Wizzup | freemangordon: so quite some of the source is open sourced later on in meego/nemo? |
| 18:48.57 | freemangordon | Wizzup: actually I'll be surprised if it even manages to compile |
| 18:48.59 | Wizzup | in the one you linked https://github.com/nemomobile/pulseaudio-modules-nemo/tree/master/src/voice |
| 18:49.16 | freemangordon | Wizzup: yes, but it is similar, not same |
| 18:49.24 | Wizzup | I see |
| 18:49.30 | freemangordon | lots of stuff being moved to colsed blobs |
| 18:49.35 | freemangordon | *closed |
| 18:49.43 | Wizzup | I think I'll go home soon (going to jump on the bike soon) so I'll be back later |
| 18:49.44 | Wizzup | freemangordon: ah |
| 18:49.57 | KotCzarny | also, having a current kernel that works with fremantle would be nice for dualbooting |
| 18:52.47 | Wizzup | Back later |
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