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| 00:09.44 | stryngs | Can someone tell me, if it's cool to completly remove the python2.5 from the n900? |
| 00:10.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | no, it's not |
| 00:11.04 | stryngs | Dang |
| 00:11.17 | stryngs | Can things not be hacked to rely on just python2.7? |
| 00:11.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | quite a number of apps need it afaik |
| 00:11.38 | stryngs | Yeah, but python, is just python |
| 00:11.42 | stryngs | and 2.5 sucks. |
| 00:11.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | nfc. try it |
| 00:11.51 | stryngs | I can chop the debs, not a problem. |
| 00:12.08 | stryngs | My thoughts are whether or not it "truly" need 2.5 |
| 00:12.16 | stryngs | Or if it's just a Depends: line thing for the .debs |
| 00:12.33 | stryngs | I would love to "truly" bring the n900 into at least the year 2015 |
| 00:13.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | it sucks that http://maemo.org/packages/ can't search for dependencies |
| 00:14.12 | stryngs | hehe |
| 00:14.17 | stryngs | Well, we can reverse it up doc |
| 00:14.21 | stryngs | some apt-cache magic |
| 00:14.28 | stryngs | I wonder though |
| 00:14.32 | stryngs | I wish i had a spare damn n900 |
| 00:14.46 | stryngs | That's what sucks about experimentation with only 1 n900 |
| 00:14.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmm, gimme a query |
| 00:16.38 | stryngs | boots |
| 00:16.42 | stryngs | One sec I'll have u a solution |
| 00:17.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | anyway http://maemo.org/packages/view/python2.5/ |
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| 00:18.02 | buZz | wooo people |
| 00:18.28 | buZz | is this the right place to beg for OS2008 mirrors for N800? :P |
| 00:18.45 | buZz | i just found one in someones old hw pile |
| 00:20.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | honestly can somebody explain me the serial number like python2.5 2.5.2-11.1maemo3+0m5 |
| 00:20.39 | buZz | the maemo3+0m5 denotes some patchset |
| 00:20.49 | buZz | python2.5 is the packagename |
| 00:21.01 | buZz | 2.5.2 is the upstream version |
| 00:21.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | and is python2.5 2.5.2-11.1maemo3+0m5 > python2.5 2.5.4-1maemo6 ? or < ? |
| 00:21.13 | buZz | 11.1 some .. other version? maybe a package version .. |
| 00:21.25 | buZz | 2.5.4 is newer |
| 00:21.29 | stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: apt-cache rdepends <package> |
| 00:23.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | here you are: http://paste.opensuse.org/37822560 |
| 00:24.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | maegirls oh LOL |
| 00:26.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | qlistier ? ;-P |
| 00:26.45 | stryngs | bwhahah |
| 00:26.47 | stryngs | Saw that |
| 00:26.51 | stryngs | what is maegirls =) |
| 00:27.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://www.google.de/search?q=klistierspritze |
| 00:27.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | maegirls = maemo's approach to pr0n iirc |
| 00:29.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah!! >> MaeGirls is a program to monitor women's cycle. This can be helpful for a number of reasons, both if you are a man or a woman.<< |
| 00:29.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | quite a useful app |
| 00:33.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | buZz: OS2008? |
| 00:35.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | buZz: sth like /home/jr/maemo-mirror/tabletsdev/nokia_770/OS2008_Hacker_Edition ? |
| 00:35.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh N800 |
| 00:36.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | sth like /home/jr/maemo-mirror/tabletsdev/nokia_N800/downloads/RX-34_2008SE_1.2007.44-4_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin ? |
| 00:37.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | or /home/jr/maemo-mirror/tabletsdev/nokia_N800/downloads/RX-34_DIABLO_5.2008.43-7_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin |
| 00:37.24 | buZz | i think i just stumbled upon a mirror :P |
| 00:37.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | ok |
| 00:37.33 | buZz | http://archive.is/8W7hs |
| 00:37.43 | buZz | but tnx a lot :) |
| 00:37.48 | DocScrutinizer05 | yw |
| 00:37.51 | buZz | wonders what 'hacker edition' is :P |
| 00:38.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~cssu |
| 00:38.04 | infobot | cssu is probably http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU, or (Community Seamless Software Update) |
| 00:38.30 | buZz | ah |
| 00:39.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_firmware#Linux_PC |
| 00:42.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually no clue really. maybe start here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Category:OS2008 |
| 00:42.59 | buZz | its all a bit new, but fun, i'll get by :) |
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| 00:45.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=57865&highlight=os2008he |
| 00:48.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | you want to s/forums.internettablettalk/talk.maemo.org/g |
| 00:49.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | e.g http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=22771 instead of 3) remake bootmenu http://www.forums.internettablettalk...howthread.php? t=22771 |
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| 01:24.51 | buZz | awesome :) |
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| 02:52.05 | stryngs | DocScrutinizer05: Who "owns" maemo.com |
| 02:52.26 | stryngs | .org rather |
| 02:54.38 | stryngs | thinks Maemo as a whole, needs a reconfiguration. |
| 02:54.46 | stryngs | thinks Maemo, could be made, better. |
| 02:55.00 | stryngs | thinks #maemo perhaps, might be interested in his crazy thoughts |
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| 08:14.59 | buZz | wish i had some SD cards here :P |
| 08:15.07 | buZz | of course, all my cards are in storage |
| 08:15.09 | buZz | grlmb :) |
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| 08:46.39 | Guest63813 | hello, does anyone know a good dicitonary or translation app for the n900 ? - I already tried gTranslate but it doesn't work ... |
| 08:47.57 | Ras_Older | What do you mean exactly by it doesn't work? I just opened it with my device and seems to be in working order here. |
| 08:48.07 | KotCzarny | um |
| 08:48.15 | KotCzarny | you only want dict? |
| 08:48.30 | KotCzarny | you may try kcxlator |
| 08:48.56 | KotCzarny | https://sourceforge.net/projects/oscp/files/kcxlator/ |
| 08:50.13 | axon | sorry, I am guest63813 |
| 08:50.26 | axon | I made an error at the login |
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| 09:11.54 | axon | KotCzarny: I installed it. But I don't really understand it ... i tipped: kcxlator.sh f.xv2 hello -> I expected some output ... additionally I have no clue for which langugage it is for |
| 09:12.11 | KotCzarny | english |
| 09:12.28 | KotCzarny | and its a thesaurus |
| 09:12.33 | KotCzarny | ie. dictionary |
| 09:12.52 | axon | Ras_Older: It doesn't work means: Everytime I put in a word it says " please enter valid text" |
| 09:13.39 | KotCzarny | axon: if you start it without params it will go into interactive mode |
| 09:13.59 | KotCzarny | otherwise it should just print out word definition into terminal |
| 09:14.19 | axon | KotCzarny: yes, I tried but than I have a lot of "???" signs everytiem I put in a word |
| 09:14.35 | axon | I only need a german bulgarian translation tool |
| 09:14.40 | axon | dicitonary |
| 09:14.45 | axon | *dicitonary |
| 09:14.50 | KotCzarny | ahm |
| 09:14.54 | KotCzarny | dont have |
| 09:15.07 | KotCzarny | i have english-german tho |
| 09:15.23 | axon | who needs that? |
| 09:15.27 | KotCzarny | me |
| 09:15.28 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 09:15.28 | axon | :-P |
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| 09:17.47 | axon | I mean there are a lot of "word-lists" in THE famous internet ... BUT I have trouble to put in the kyrillic letters via my english keyboard layout (google translator has a nice way to work around that by interpreting latincharacters as cyrillic if they sound similar ...) and additionally I don't know a tool to load and browse those lists ... |
| 09:18.09 | KotCzarny | axon, use on screen keyboard? |
| 09:19.02 | axon | good idea - |
| 09:19.21 | axon | perhaps I am going to write a small application to browse wordlists ... |
| 09:20.56 | axon | does anyone has any idea about the gtranslate bug? - it doesn't seem to be new [http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=56989] ... |
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| 09:22.46 | KotCzarny | google changes its interface often |
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| 09:29.27 | axon | @KotCzarny: I found something: |
| 09:29.35 | axon | >>> import goslate |
| 09:29.35 | axon | >>> gs=goslate.Goslate() |
| 09:29.35 | axon | >>> print gs.translate("hello world","bg") |
| 09:29.35 | axon | ÐдÑавей СвÑÑ |
| 09:29.56 | axon | so there is a good python implementation for google translate |
| 09:30.27 | axon | now I will try to make it run on my n900 |
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| 12:33.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOL http://wstaw.org/m/2015/09/02/plasma-desktoppJ1947.png |
| 12:34.04 | kerio | ? |
| 12:34.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | some guys beaten it from version 1.4+qt3 to 1.9+Qt5 |
| 12:34.36 | kerio | neat |
| 12:34.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | also see "Deutsche Uebersetzung:" |
| 12:34.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | (plus a lot of other stuff not mentioned there) |
| 12:37.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | (C)2008 ;-P |
| 12:38.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | feels a tiny bit flattered that this software *still* gets maintained |
| 12:38.24 | kerio | opensource finds a way |
| 12:38.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | in my book still the greatest SIP softphone ever |
| 12:39.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, NOW it should really be a nobrainer porting it to maemo, eh? |
| 12:39.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | I mean, Qt5, c'mon |
| 12:39.47 | zGrr | moin :) |
| 12:39.53 | DocScrutinizer05 | moin :) |
| 12:40.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://software.opensuse.org/download.html?project=network%3Atelephony&package=twinkle http://www.rpmfind.net/linux/rpm2html/search.php?query=twinkle |
| 12:41.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | just the "fake" project website (dolezil.info) annoys me |
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| 12:43.21 | axon | hello has anyone experience with installing new python version on the n900? |
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| 12:51.51 | DocScrutinizer05 | LOL again @ http://paste.opensuse.org/42355518 |
| 12:55.49 | DocScrutinizer05 | THAT is a decent audio settings implementation (note "other device") http://wstaw.org/m/2015/09/02/plasma-desktopyK1947.png |
| 12:56.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | "other device" means you can provide your own ALSA device description to your liking |
| 12:57.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw audio works OOTB on my PA-infested system here |
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| 13:01.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | (port to maemo) maybe basing the 1.9 Qt5 port on http://www.rpmfind.net//linux/RPM/opensuse/13.2/armv7hl/armv7hl/twinkle-1.4.2-28.1.1.armv7hl.html might help |
| 13:02.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | axon: http://maemo.org/packages/ search for "python" |
| 13:03.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | python 2.5, 2.6, 2.7, 3 all there |
| 13:03.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | 3.2, 3.4 |
| 13:03.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://maemo.org/packages/view/python3.4/ |
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| 13:05.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | ("other device" -- courtesy DocScrutinizer05 ;D ) |
| 13:09.58 | erlehmann | can anyone here post me a fixed sources.list so i do not have to type everything out? |
| 13:10.15 | erlehmann | with the maemo.muarf.org repos in there? |
| 13:10.29 | erlehmann | the application catalog links there do not work for me for some reason |
| 13:10.35 | axon | danke nils |
| 13:11.34 | erlehmann | :) |
| 13:25.53 | axon | DocScrutinizer05: I found python2.7 as you said. - how do I add "Fremantle Extras-devel free armel" to my repositories? |
| 13:26.35 | Ras_Older | axon: https://wiki.maemo.org/Extras |
| 13:27.21 | Ras_Older | Oh damn sorry that one https://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-devel :D |
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| 13:38.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~catalogs |
| 13:38.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~extras-devel |
| 13:38.40 | infobot | well, extras-devel is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras-devel |
| 13:39.06 | axon | I added the new catalogues -> but I don't find the python2.7 packacke - eventhough I see lots of new packages ... |
| 13:39.54 | axon | and according to http://maemo.org/packages/ it should be in there ... |
| 13:43.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe not in group "user" |
| 13:48.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | in HAM menu click 'settings', checkmark "show all packages" |
| 13:50.31 | axon | I dont have such a menu in my application manager : only refresh, log and application catalogues ... |
| 13:50.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | ummm |
| 13:51.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | get a decent HAM, see red-pill-mode too maybe |
| 13:51.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | install CSSU |
| 13:51.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~cssu |
| 13:51.42 | infobot | it has been said that cssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_SSU, or (Community Seamless Software Update) |
| 13:51.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | get |
| 13:51.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~speedyham |
| 13:51.57 | infobot | rumour has it, speedyham is 30 times faster than HAM http://maemo.merlin1991.at/cssu/community-devel/pool/free/h/hildon-application-manager/hildon-application-manager_2.2.73-2_armel.deb |
| 13:52.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | renames speedyham to lightningham |
| 13:53.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | axon: for python etc you also can use apt-get |
| 13:53.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually that's the preferred method |
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| 13:54.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | just _never_ do apt-get upgrade or apt-get dist-upgrade |
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| 13:55.50 | axon | for some reason it doesn't use the same repositories as the application manager |
| 13:55.52 | axon | ... |
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| 14:05.35 | axon | I can finally see python2.7 vis apt-cache - but when i try to install it I get a "unmet dependecies" error : mime-support is not installable ... |
| 14:15.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, application manager using his own (additional) settings on top of usual apt lists |
| 14:15.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | its* |
| 14:16.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | well, check which mime-support it needs and find it |
| 14:17.43 | axon | DocScrutinizer05: I tried my best, but it's a little hard, that I have to face unmet dependencies ... does it mean I am doing it wrong? |
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| 14:19.45 | KotCzarny | ~maemo-repos |
| 14:19.45 | infobot | i heard maemo-repos is http://wiki.maemo.org/Repository#List_of_Maemo_repositories |
| 14:19.49 | KotCzarny | erlehmann: ^ |
| 14:20.55 | erlehmann | axon you need to update the sources list |
| 14:21.06 | erlehmann | did you delete the nokia repositories? |
| 14:21.14 | axon | you mean ! apt-get update ? |
| 14:21.17 | axon | I did that |
| 14:21.34 | erlehmann | no |
| 14:21.35 | erlehmann | http://wiki.maemo.org/Repository#List_of_Maemo_repositories |
| 14:21.57 | erlehmann | axon your sources list probably did include downloads.maemo.nokia.com entries |
| 14:22.16 | erlehmann | prefix them with âhttp://maemo.muarf.org/apt-mirror/mirror/â |
| 14:22.28 | erlehmann | so the lines are |
| 14:22.30 | erlehmann | deb http://maemo.muarf.org/apt-mirror/mirror/downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/apps/ ./ |
| 14:22.35 | erlehmann | and |
| 14:22.36 | erlehmann | deb http://maemo.muarf.org/apt-mirror/mirror/downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/mr0/ ./ |
| 14:22.59 | erlehmann | then apt-get update |
| 14:23.05 | erlehmann | and look out if there are any errors |
| 14:23.40 | erlehmann | there is /etc/apt/sources.list and /etc/apt/sources.list.d/ in which there are more files |
| 14:23.48 | erlehmann | format is like debian |
| 14:23.59 | axon | I know |
| 14:24.13 | axon | that's where I would copy what you just send me |
| 14:24.36 | axon | my sources list looks like this: |
| 14:24.40 | axon | deb http://repository.maemo.org/community/ fremantle free non-free |
| 14:24.40 | axon | deb http://maemo.merlin1991.at/cssu/community-devel/ fremantle free non-free |
| 14:24.40 | axon | deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ fremantle-1.3 free non-free |
| 14:24.40 | axon | deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/ fremantle free non-free |
| 14:25.24 | axon | and now: |
| 14:25.42 | axon | the new one: |
| 14:25.46 | axon | deb http://repository.maemo.org/community/ fremantle free non-free |
| 14:25.46 | axon | deb http://maemo.merlin1991.at/cssu/community-devel/ fremantle free non-free |
| 14:25.46 | axon | deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras/ fremantle-1.3 free non-free |
| 14:25.46 | axon | deb http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/ fremantle free non-free |
| 14:25.46 | axon | deb http://maemo.muarf.org/apt-mirror/mirror/downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/apps/ ./ |
| 14:25.46 | axon | deb http://maemo.muarf.org/apt-mirror/mirror/downloads.maemo.nokia.com/fremantle/ssu/mr0/ ./ |
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| 14:27.06 | erlehmann | axon do apt-get update |
| 14:27.09 | erlehmann | and then try to install again |
| 14:27.12 | erlehmann | and see if it works |
| 14:27.28 | axon | I do |
| 14:27.34 | axon | it right now |
| 14:27.50 | erlehmann | :) |
| 14:28.59 | axon | he says keyexpired |
| 14:30.00 | erlehmann | that is probably microsofts fault |
| 14:30.10 | axon | neverless he installed mime-support and is currently installing python2.7 |
| 14:30.18 | axon | Danke Nils! |
| 14:30.43 | erlehmann | :) |
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| 14:49.18 | Jack64 | hey guys, I'm trying to get access to raw data from the accelerometer on the N900, is there a C/C++ lib or something I can use ? |
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| 14:53.56 | axon | Thanks to everybody who supported me: Just to let you know: It seems to me that the easiest way to access the easiest way to use google_translate for a dictionary is the goslate python library |
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| 15:04.56 | axon | I even managed it to write a little script which is converting between cyrllic and latin letters ... |
| 15:06.27 | erlehmann | axon publish it |
| 15:09.25 | axon | erlehmann, I have the problem that i don't use the exact right transcription for some letters ... for example the transcription "з" is "z" and since it sounds like "s" i putted it on s ... |
| 15:09.42 | axon | and there are many of this little things |
| 15:10.05 | axon | but I promise you I do it as soon as I finished my thesis ... |
| 15:10.28 | axon | until than I just use it as a quick tool to learn and to look up some words |
| 15:11.15 | axon | it's effective for me - but might be annoying for somebody who is used to the real system ... |
| 15:11.19 | erlehmann | axon there are transliteration libraries |
| 15:20.37 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 15:20.39 | KotCzarny | iconv |
| 15:21.12 | axon | erlehmann, yes I knew them already - I checked them again - they are ok. Once I have time I am going to integrate them into my program ... |
| 15:23.18 | erlehmann | KotCzarny it can do transliteration? |
| 15:23.21 | erlehmann | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:23.22 | erlehmann | <PROTECTED> |
| 15:23.51 | KotCzarny | was that a question? |
| 15:24.53 | erlehmann | KotCzarny i answered it myself! |
| 15:27.43 | erlehmann | ; echo Ãther Kloà Tütenwein ⶠâ â| iconv -f UTF-8 -t ASCII//TRANSLIT |
| 15:27.43 | erlehmann | AEther Kloss Tuetenwein (A) (1) -> |
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| 15:50.58 | bencoh | Jack64: http://wiki.maemo.org/Accelerometers maybe |
| 15:51.34 | KotCzarny | there is accelerometer app in repos |
| 15:51.37 | KotCzarny | check the source |
| 15:54.47 | Jack64 | bencoh: I found https://wiki.maemo.org/N900_accelerometer too |
| 15:55.08 | Jack64 | it's not calibrated though, I have to offset the values in my code manually |
| 15:55.17 | Jack64 | and I think it's not sensitive enough to measure what I want |
| 15:58.06 | KotCzarny | also, you can try app with the name 'level' |
| 15:58.27 | KotCzarny | and the one i was talking earlier is named 'accdisplay' |
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| 15:59.59 | Jack64 | KotCzarny: thanks. It's prolly not gonna work for my purposes tho |
| 16:00.13 | Jack64 | needs a more sensitive accelerometer |
| 16:00.20 | KotCzarny | check the accdisplay one |
| 16:01.15 | Jack64 | checks |
| 16:04.31 | bencoh | what are you trying to do? |
| 16:05.03 | KotCzarny | blow stuff up? |
| 16:05.33 | Jack64 | hehe |
| 16:05.47 | Jack64 | http://www.news.gatech.edu/2011/10/17/georgia-tech-turns-iphone-spiphone |
| 16:05.59 | Jack64 | trying to see if this is feasible on the N900's hardware |
| 16:06.12 | Jack64 | since coding for it is pretty straightforward |
| 16:06.47 | KotCzarny | hmm |
| 16:06.55 | KotCzarny | n900 is held differently |
| 16:06.57 | KotCzarny | a bit |
| 16:07.11 | Jack64 | I know, but this depends on the phone being set on the table next to the keyboard |
| 16:07.16 | Jack64 | and "feels" keystrokes |
| 16:07.25 | Jack64 | then guesses where the user hit the key |
| 16:07.41 | KotCzarny | ahm |
| 16:07.54 | KotCzarny | they yeah, could be too thick |
| 16:07.56 | bencoh | I doubt it'd work, but ... |
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| 16:08.30 | Jack64 | yea preliminary testing for variation didn't bode well |
| 16:08.44 | Jack64 | might be too thick yes |
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| 17:09.49 | Wizzup | Pali: trying to boot mainline on n900, got a uImage, and set the right bootmenu |
| 17:09.53 | Wizzup | It boots, but fails to find the root |
| 17:10.08 | Wizzup | I am aware that the emmc and sd card are swapped in the sense that mmcblk0 is the sd card |
| 17:11.24 | KotCzarny | wizzup, wasnt it an issue even with maemo kernel that it doesnt find mmc to boot and just needs initrd? |
| 17:11.46 | Wizzup | I do not know - is that the case? |
| 17:11.49 | Wizzup | That would explain a lot |
| 17:11.55 | KotCzarny | dont know if its timing issue or some trigger not happening in kernel time |
| 17:12.07 | Wizzup | I did set rootdelay=10 |
| 17:12.14 | Wizzup | But it sees the card long before that |
| 17:12.20 | Wizzup | Maybe I should try with an initrd then |
| 17:13.56 | KotCzarny | https://lkml.org/lkml/2014/12/6/148 |
| 17:14.11 | KotCzarny | partly related but different issue |
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| 17:15.09 | KotCzarny | or maybe the same |
| 17:16.07 | Wizzup | So with a simple busybox initrd you think mounting mmc will work? |
| 17:16.24 | Wizzup | I mean, the patch seems to hint at larger problems |
| 17:16.41 | KotCzarny | disclaimer: i dont have second n900 to fool around (its my main phone) |
| 17:16.58 | Wizzup | It is useful feedback already |
| 17:20.35 | Wizzup | Pali: the root is on the u-sdcard |
| 17:23.44 | Wizzup | hurr |
| 17:23.46 | Wizzup | ext4 is a module |
| 17:23.52 | Wizzup | Let's see what happens if it is not a module... |
| 17:24.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((<axon> deb http://maemo.merlin1991.at/cssu/community-devel/ fremantle free non-free)) I highly doubt this is supposed to be there |
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| 17:37.38 | Wizzup | Nope - with ext4 enabled in the kernel is still cannot mount the rootfs |
| 17:48.40 | KotCzarny | wizzup, make basic initrd then just investigate |
| 17:49.13 | Wizzup | Yes - I will |
| 17:49.16 | DocScrutinizer51 | Wizzup: then you prolly want diagnostic output from kernel |
| 17:49.50 | KotCzarny | usb eth + telnetd |
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| 17:57.12 | DocScrutinizer51 | for kernel debug? |
| 17:58.14 | DocScrutinizer51 | maybe kernel knows about sth like console=ttyUSB though I doubt it |
| 17:59.11 | DocScrutinizer51 | anyway the kernel should know framebuffer. KP does |
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| 18:02.13 | DocScrutinizer51 | maemo kernel has no initrd, maybe you should be able to make recent kernel to boot straight from bzimage into final root as well? |
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| 18:21.19 | Wizzup | ok, I can get to a shell with an uInitrd + watchdog modules... |
| 18:23.27 | Wizzup | but cannot type / or any number :< |
| 18:23.50 | KotCzarny | and thats why usb-eth + telnetd is nice |
| 18:24.11 | KotCzarny | connect usb keyboard? |
| 18:24.22 | Wizzup | hmm |
| 18:24.25 | Wizzup | is it in hostmode atm? |
| 18:24.40 | KotCzarny | maybe |
| 18:25.05 | KotCzarny | if not, add some echo > /sys/... to initrd |
| 18:25.53 | Wizzup | do you know how to toggle it? |
| 18:25.56 | Wizzup | will google if not |
| 18:25.59 | Wizzup | just wanted to quickly see if I Can do it |
| 18:26.20 | KotCzarny | just connect keyboard and see |
| 18:26.24 | KotCzarny | it's the quickest test |
| 18:26.32 | Wizzup | (didn't work) |
| 18:26.34 | KotCzarny | https://wiki.maemo.org/N900_Hardware_USB_Host |
| 18:26.52 | KotCzarny | no magic commands |
| 18:26.57 | KotCzarny | ~hen |
| 18:26.58 | infobot | hmm... hen is hostmode-easy-now, or http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=65232, or see ~hostmode |
| 18:26.59 | Wizzup | (this is mainline kernel btw) |
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| 18:27.54 | Wizzup | alright. will continue tomorrow |
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| 18:30.56 | KotCzarny | ~hostmode |
| 18:30.57 | infobot | [hostmode] http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=652330, or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fkCDyUO0sKQ, or see ~hostmode-powered |
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| 18:34.36 | sla_erick | ~sb |
| 18:34.36 | infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, scratchbox is a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at http://www.scratchbox.org/, hosted by maemo now. Also at http://maemo.merlin1991.at/files/SB |
| 18:37.45 | DocScrutinizer51 | KotCzarny: hostmode will not work in stock kernel and for sure not during kernel init |
| 18:39.41 | DocScrutinizer51 | and kernel also has no telnetd built in, and even worse it couldn't start it when it fails to mount rootfs |
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| 18:40.11 | KotCzarny | doc, i suggested telnetd because he used busybox in initrd anyway |
| 18:40.42 | DocScrutinizer51 | please check kernel cmdline parameters, particularly 'conx |
| 18:40.43 | KotCzarny | also, was the usbhost mode refused by kernel people? |
| 18:40.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | console= |
| 18:41.18 | KotCzarny | it would be quite nice feature in mainline |
| 18:42.07 | DocScrutinizer51 | yes, hostmode on N900 is a *terrible* hack. I know since I invented it |
| 18:42.29 | KotCzarny | pity |
| 18:42.47 | DocScrutinizer51 | I would argue when any fools would want to get it into mainline |
| 18:43.13 | KotCzarny | no way to tidy it ? |
| 18:43.37 | DocScrutinizer51 | no |
| 18:44.18 | DocScrutinizer51 | I made that wok despite 'everybody else' said it can't get done |
| 18:44.23 | KotCzarny | can it be made into universal patch? |
| 18:44.29 | DocScrutinizer51 | no |
| 18:44.44 | DocScrutinizer51 | N900 hw fsckd up |
| 18:45.17 | KotCzarny | linux kernel has some hw quirks fixups anyway |
| 18:45.24 | DocScrutinizer51 | h-e-n is a hack and a botch and will always be |
| 18:45.58 | DocScrutinizer51 | nobody wants or needs it in mainline |
| 18:46.15 | KotCzarny | but you are using it without adverse efect to the device |
| 18:47.10 | DocScrutinizer51 | yes, except it basically messes up USB completely |
| 18:47.27 | DocScrutinizer51 | and doesn't work without user interaction |
| 18:48.23 | DocScrutinizer51 | it's basically a USB hostmode *emulation* |
| 18:48.30 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 18:48.35 | DocScrutinizer51 | and a pretty poor one too |
| 18:48.47 | KotCzarny | but works and is good enough? |
| 18:49.17 | DocScrutinizer51 | it's as good as it gets on defect-by-design hardware |
| 18:50.14 | DocScrutinizer51 | nokia said "it can't get done", I answered "and nevertheless I'll do it" |
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| 18:50.22 | KotCzarny | :) |
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| 18:50.43 | DocScrutinizer51 | nokia was right |
| 18:50.51 | kerio | yeah but |
| 18:50.58 | kerio | it works kinda fine |
| 18:51.05 | kerio | it works perfectly fine if you add a usb hub |
| 18:51.20 | DocScrutinizer51 | nest I could come up with was this botch that needs manual activation ans speed selection |
| 18:51.37 | DocScrutinizer51 | best* |
| 18:52.20 | DocScrutinizer51 | and a massively patched kernel |
| 18:54.04 | DocScrutinizer51 | no matter it works 'just fine' in everyday usage, it's a dirty sick hack :) |
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| 18:55.32 | KotCzarny | everything is a hack |
| 18:55.46 | DocScrutinizer51 | kerio: indeed with a hub it works almost perfect, since the hub provides power and most importantlu does speed conversion between USB2, 1.1, 1.0 |
| 18:58.19 | DocScrutinizer51 | ooh btw ~4 years after project H-E-N finish it's prolly about time to share all those donations between all invoved developers :) |
| 18:59.01 | DocScrutinizer51 | let's see, that must have been ~200 bucks, divided between 15 people involved... |
| 18:59.14 | KotCzarny | few beers at the next maemo party? |
| 18:59.33 | DocScrutinizer51 | meh, I'll pay the next drink :D |
| 18:59.46 | DocScrutinizer51 | yep |
| 19:04.39 | DocScrutinizer51 | btw start of next week I'll order the N900 needed for Neo900 complete devices. So still a few days left to place your preorder if you're intereted to be one of those who definitely get a complete device incl case and all |
| 19:05.52 | DocScrutinizer51 | PP supposed to be working again at Friday the latest, so there's a whole weekend still |
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| 19:39.39 | norly | DocScrutinizer51: Any estimation on how many people ordered a Neo900 so far? |
| 19:40.38 | DocScrutinizer51 | 209psome |
| 19:41.01 | DocScrutinizer51 | 200 even |
| 19:41.22 | DocScrutinizer51 | maybe 222 ;) |
| 19:41.22 | KotCzarny | :/ |
| 19:41.27 | KotCzarny | price is a killer |
| 19:41.37 | DocScrutinizer51 | wait |
| 19:41.40 | DocScrutinizer51 | nah |
| 19:41.43 | DocScrutinizer51 | 300 |
| 19:42.46 | DocScrutinizer51 | 180 complete, 110 NeoN |
| 19:43.10 | DocScrutinizer51 | somesuch |
| 19:44.39 | DocScrutinizer51 | (price) well, people are paying a 700 bucks for a cheesy mainstream mass market product like iPhone |
| 19:45.13 | DocScrutinizer51 | even N900 was around 600 bucks new IIRC |
| 19:45.37 | KotCzarny | not me |
| 19:45.43 | KotCzarny | and not most geeks |
| 19:45.52 | DocScrutinizer51 | meanwhile Euro lost value |
| 19:45.55 | bencoh | s/geeks/hackers/ |
| 19:46.00 | KotCzarny | people paying for iphones are usually technology illiterate |
| 19:46.18 | DocScrutinizer51 | so what? |
| 19:46.35 | KotCzarny | so most money stuffed people dont bother with hacking |
| 19:46.47 | KotCzarny | and hackers are hackers because they have to get by with limited resources |
| 19:46.49 | DocScrutinizer51 | you say geeks want cheap crappy stuff? |
| 19:46.52 | KotCzarny | no |
| 19:47.01 | KotCzarny | i say geeks usually have limited resources |
| 19:47.13 | DocScrutinizer51 | I can't help that |
| 19:47.19 | KotCzarny | me neither |
| 19:47.30 | KotCzarny | and thats why we have iphones |
| 19:47.43 | DocScrutinizer51 | aha |
| 19:47.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | I dont |
| 19:47.56 | KotCzarny | me neither |
| 19:48.55 | DocScrutinizer51 | whatever. furile discussion. I'd love to sell that device cheaper, alas I can"t |
| 19:50.56 | DocScrutinizer51 | users asked for 1GB RAM - kajink another 50 bucks plus. Asked for 64GB eMMC - kajink 40 buck plus |
| 19:51.44 | DocScrutinizer51 | NFC: another 50 bucks |
| 19:51.54 | bencoh | that's not the most expensive part anyway, iirc |
| 19:51.58 | KotCzarny | i wonder if it could be made as a modular device |
| 19:52.03 | DocScrutinizer51 | dual SIM 20 bucks |
| 19:52.26 | DocScrutinizer51 | no, modular is a hoax |
| 19:52.38 | KotCzarny | there was that one project |
| 19:52.51 | DocScrutinizer51 | meh |
| 19:53.28 | DocScrutinizer51 | outright refuses to discuss ara a billionth time |
| 19:53.38 | KotCzarny | https://phonebloks.com/en |
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| 19:53.42 | KotCzarny | no, not ara |
| 19:54.07 | DocScrutinizer51 | *sigh* |
| 19:55.01 | DocScrutinizer51 | ara == bloks |
| 19:55.05 | KotCzarny | ahm |
| 19:55.18 | KotCzarny | i knew it before it became ara |
| 19:55.23 | KotCzarny | didnt follow |
| 19:59.46 | DocScrutinizer05 | bencoh: the most expensive part clearly is the modem |
| 19:59.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's ~100 bucks |
| 20:00.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | R&D _not_ included |
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| 20:00.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://developer.gemalto.com/threads/phs8-atscsl-customer-sim-lock-permit-all-lock |
| 20:06.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://developer.gemalto.com/threads/pls8-dual-sim-volte |
| 20:08.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | R&D is about finding and fixing/handling stuff like ^^^ |
| 20:08.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | which takes time, and time is money |
| 20:09.17 | bencoh | yeah I was referring to R&D (as the "most expensive part" ;) |
| 20:10.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?p=1474968#post1474968 |
| 20:12.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's really 'fun'¡ to plan with bleeding-edge components that are not even released yet and whose specs change inadvertently - however we need to plan with those bleeding edge components or we will probably not be able to source them at time of production. That's EE daily WTF you need to deal with when you do hw design |
| 20:14.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | see wg7351 which we possibly might need to drop and replace it with a wiLink8 series module since it's already starting to get phased out |
| 20:15.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | WiLink8 is nice, except for the drivers etc |
| 20:15.40 | DocScrutinizer05 | once there are FOSS drivers, the hardware is obsolete. It's really a nasty game |
| 20:16.54 | DocScrutinizer05 | *if* we were a veritable player in that game, like we'd plan to source a few 100k of chips, we could do better |
| 20:17.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | for a nobody like Neo900 you have to be grateful when you get answers to your emails |
| 20:18.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | even for answers like "MOQ:2000; lead time: 20 weeks" |
| 20:21.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | and such answer still isn't a binding offer yet. When you want to get the stuff, you as well could get a terse email "sorry Sir, we meant 'MOQ:20000, lead time: 20 months'. Our mistake, sorry for the inconvenience" |
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| 20:22.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's what risk parts sourcing and securing is all about |
| 20:24.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | btw can you read stuff like https://developer.gemalto.com/threads/phs8-atscsl-customer-sim-lock-permit-all-lock or does it need a log-in to even read it? |
| 20:24.31 | KotCzarny | it opened fine |
| 20:24.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | :-) ta |
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| 23:03.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: (charging, ENUM) I guess I might have been wrong - connecting N900 to a standard "output" (without data connectivity) of a USB Ampere meter shows it's starting to charge with ~700mA. It also has detected and is signaling charging state |
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| 23:06.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | hmmmmm |
| 23:06.27 | erlehmann | DocScrutinizer05 btw, my n900 routinely takes its time to update battery status |
| 23:06.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | IroN900:~# cat /sys/devices/platform/musb_hdrc/charger |
| 23:06.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | 1 |
| 23:06.41 | erlehmann | like, when it is empty and then i charge it and take it off the charger |
| 23:06.48 | erlehmann | it does know then that it charges or not |
| 23:07.04 | erlehmann | but ⦠it takes minutes to update the battery meter from red to green |
| 23:07.13 | DocScrutinizer05 | duh! |
| 23:07.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | stock BME? |
| 23:08.11 | erlehmann | hmmm! |
| 23:08.17 | erlehmann | may be the reason that it isn't! |
| 23:08.35 | erlehmann | i will look into it |
| 23:09.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | mine is showing animation during charging and when I unplug it, it usually shows quite a bit higher charge than before I plugged it in and charging started - even when charging was a few minutes only |
| 23:10.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | of course when it finishes charging, the animation stops and a full green battery icon is shown instead |
| 23:11.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | even when I don't unplug |
| 23:11.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | there are 8 "bars" aka green levels of battery that are sequentially shown in anim |
| 23:11.51 | erlehmann | how far is the effort to replace non-free components? |
| 23:12.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | good question |
| 23:12.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~closed |
| 23:12.31 | infobot | closed is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages or https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_closed_packages, or http://elinux.org/N900 |
| 23:12.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~fptf |
| 23:12.43 | infobot | fptf is probably the Fremantle Porting Task Force, see http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=91308 |
| 23:16.04 | erlehmann | thx |
| 23:17.34 | erlehmann | btw, is it possible to be in irc with telepathy-idle without getting a notification for every single message? |
| 23:17.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | sorry I got no better answer |
| 23:27.56 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: nope, again wrong (about being wrong) - actually when D+- isn't shorted then the N900 does not charge *at all* |
| 23:28.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | iw akes up from screenlock on unplug bot pretends to not even recognize plugin resp applying 5V VBUS |
| 23:29.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | it wakes* |
| 23:29.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | but* |
| 23:30.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | the 100mA max are prolly only when you boot up the device from power-off by plugging in the charger with no D+- short |
| 23:30.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | and maybe only until linux and BME are started |
| 23:31.50 | DocScrutinizer05 | also the wakeup on unplug is not really reliable, only happens sometimes |
| 23:33.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | pretty weird |
| 23:36.24 | DocScrutinizer05 | needs a decent static USB analyzer |
| 23:37.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | sth like those old TAE phone jack testers |
| 23:38.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | starts to doubt if this universal power supply actually has open circuit D+- on the USB jack |
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| 23:43.50 | ecc3g | and then we have those 9V USB chargers with active circuitry... and it will also short out D+- ... |
| 23:46.06 | ecc3g | hmmm come to think of it, how do they work... wondering if it treats USB as half duplex during charge negotiation so regular 5V USB will charge fine |
| 23:55.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | ecc3g: hm? you lost me |
| 23:56.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | never heard of 9V USB chargers |
| 23:58.12 | ecc3g | there's a new standard that a cellphone can negotiate a charger to dump out 9V instead of 5V |
| 23:58.28 | ecc3g | so you can get 18W of power through no more than 2A |
| 23:58.51 | ecc3g | of course it has to deal with legacy devices to not send more than 5V |
| 23:59.14 | ecc3g | needs a chip in the charger. Forgot who has it, probably patented... |
| 23:59.39 | DocScrutinizer05 | yeah I know of 30V-USB |
| 23:59.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | negotiates voltage on a protocol level |
