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| 02:37.33 | rbjr | hello broo |
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| 05:43.20 | *** topic/#maemo is Welcome to #maemo http://maemo.org/intro/ | N9/harmattan related questions please in #harmattan ! | "firmware" see ~tabletsdev ~combined ~emmc ~flasher sdk: ~sb | http://wiki.maemo.org/Community_Council | Source: http://wiki.maemo.org/Sources | Chanlog: http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog | #maemo-ssu is where the (few) devels and maintainers of the maemo-future meet |
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| 09:01.38 | zGrr | moin :) |
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| 10:28.11 | KotCzarny | But I still use oscp daily and it's part of the reason I'm back using my n900. |
| 10:28.46 | KotCzarny | what a beautiful comment for a coder |
| 10:28.48 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 10:29.11 | KotCzarny | pity most of the n8x0 users don't browse tmo these days |
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| 17:06.43 | KotCzarny | ok, anyone played with fmtx ? |
| 17:14.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | fahrplan fixed and in extras-testing. Please QA and vote |
| 17:16.50 | KotCzarny | or in other words, is there a source for fmtx_client or any other way to enable/modify rds programatically (other than exec or system) |
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| 17:28.46 | totalizator | guys, I want to buy *new* N9; do you know any verified sellers from EU? |
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| 17:29.01 | KotCzarny | um, are you really sure you want n9? |
| 17:29.12 | KotCzarny | many people say bad things about harmattan |
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| 17:30.01 | totalizator | um, I don't but I'm sick of searching an Android phone that would suit me |
| 17:30.36 | KotCzarny | learn droid sdk? |
| 17:31.09 | totalizator | and the main reason I'm still using N900 is the camera |
| 17:31.22 | Sicelo | camera? |
| 17:31.47 | KotCzarny | i think you can shoot in RAWs with n900 |
| 17:31.48 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 17:32.16 | totalizator | KotCzarny: nah, I just want a smarter phone as N900 is more and more like a feature phone for me |
| 17:32.31 | totalizator | Sicelo: the N900 camera quality is superb |
| 17:32.37 | KotCzarny | o.O |
| 17:32.40 | KotCzarny | is it? |
| 17:33.15 | Sicelo | but i'm sure our 5MPix won't compare with other newer shooters (android...) |
| 17:33.28 | bencoh | Sicelo: actually ... |
| 17:33.43 | totalizator | yup, I have documented last few years of my life with it so I know what I'm saying :3 |
| 17:34.05 | bencoh | the ccd is noisy and the aperture is too small, but other "smart"phone have the aperture issue |
| 17:34.24 | Sicelo | nice to hear that. tbh i haven't used my camera so much (in the last 4 years) until recently :) |
| 17:34.38 | bencoh | they're a bit less noisy, have a higher resolution, and try to hide bad results with image processing |
| 17:35.33 | totalizator | hah, I'll try to prepare a small compilation of my best photos taken with N900 |
| 17:35.34 | Sicelo | so totalizator in what way is N900 a feature phone? what is it lacking? (asking, not because i disagree, but to understand ...) |
| 17:35.52 | KotCzarny | hmm, used n9 goes for ~70eur |
| 17:36.42 | KotCzarny | and new one for ~120eur |
| 17:36.43 | totalizator | almost all Internet features are dead for me |
| 17:37.05 | totalizator | using the browser is a pain |
| 17:37.16 | KotCzarny | totalizator: internet streams are playable without a problem |
| 17:37.22 | KotCzarny | (audio) |
| 17:37.27 | totalizator | apps are outdated or slllooow |
| 17:37.29 | KotCzarny | and youtube is also supported in a way |
| 17:38.19 | Sicelo | maybe you need to do your research properly .. N9 might just disappoint you as well |
| 17:38.38 | KotCzarny | n9 has 1G of ram |
| 17:39.14 | KotCzarny | so has a chamce to run webkit/firefox just fine |
| 17:39.32 | Sicelo | of course it has 4x ram. 2x faster processor too |
| 17:39.46 | Sicelo | do they have such browser in harmattan world? |
| 17:40.33 | totalizator | KotCzarny: media capabilities are more than OK but it's not whan I need from a phone on a daily basis - I want to check bus timetable, instantly find a route using maps etc. |
| 17:41.12 | totalizator | I want to try N9 mainly because it's quite cheap nowadays |
| 17:42.11 | totalizator | but it's hard to find a new one and many are fake chinese replicas |
| 17:42.15 | KotCzarny | hmm, forum.meego.com is down? |
| 17:42.28 | KotCzarny | http://my-meego.com/software/applications.php?fldAuto=18&faq=9 |
| 17:42.31 | Sicelo | i love its hardware. very very nice (sans hwkbd) |
| 17:42.34 | KotCzarny | anyway, someone built it and ran |
| 17:43.55 | KotCzarny | but fennec was abandoned long time ago |
| 17:44.59 | Sicelo | totalizator: maybe you'll have better luck with used N9 then? |
| 17:45.36 | totalizator | contrary - I'm concidering things like Sony Z3 Compact and Iuni I3 |
| 17:46.05 | Sicelo | :) |
| 17:46.18 | totalizator | Sicelo: seems like there is no other option |
| 17:46.26 | totalizator | lel, I know |
| 17:47.41 | Sicelo | best wishes |
| 17:47.55 | totalizator | Iuni I3 is less than 200⬠but I have heard it has no Google Play by default Q__Q |
| 17:48.05 | KotCzarny | totalizator: are you going to sell n900 cheaply? |
| 17:48.19 | totalizator | KotCzarny: NEVER |
| 17:48.22 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 17:48.26 | totalizator | :3 |
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| 17:49.05 | KotCzarny | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=90537 |
| 17:49.11 | KotCzarny | this one looks interesting |
| 17:49.34 | KotCzarny | i wonder if anyone backported it to n900 |
| 17:50.40 | Sicelo | KotCzarny: http://talk.maemo.org/showpost.php?p=1417776&postcount=172 |
| 17:50.52 | KotCzarny | ['] |
| 17:51.10 | KotCzarny | still, could be newer/faster than fennec |
| 17:51.18 | totalizator | Sicelo: "best wishes" - please elaborate on this |
| 17:51.46 | KotCzarny | totalizator: i think he thought that you are gonna sell n900 |
| 17:51.52 | Sicelo | nothing more totalizator. just hope you find something to suit your needs, whether it be N9 or some Droid |
| 17:52.15 | totalizator | KotCzarny: Sicelo: oh |
| 17:53.23 | totalizator | btw - I have lost faith when it comes to better, faster N900 web browser - impossible Q__Q |
| 17:53.28 | Sicelo | nah, haha. i know totalizator has been a long time user of N900. selling would be sacrilege ;) |
| 17:53.49 | KotCzarny | totalizator, i think main showstopper is memory size |
| 17:53.59 | KotCzarny | and most of it eaten by os |
| 17:54.08 | totalizator | KotCzarny: ++ |
| 17:54.48 | totalizator | Sicelo: sometimes, during a panic attacks I'm looking for a spare N900 to buy ;) |
| 17:55.11 | ecc3g | also looks for a spare n900 after buying an android phone...and is totally disappointed. |
| 17:55.20 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 17:55.33 | KotCzarny | i'm looking for a spare n900 for .. science and stuff ;) |
| 17:55.48 | KotCzarny | gonna hack it hard when i get around it |
| 17:55.50 | ecc3g | i hate android, i thought i could try to acclimate to it but every moment I use it, I get more and more pissed at it |
| 17:55.51 | totalizator | android phones are like a lesser evil - a tools, nothing more |
| 17:56.38 | KotCzarny | http://talk.maemo.org/showthread.php?t=85191 |
| 17:56.39 | KotCzarny | hmm |
| 17:56.53 | KotCzarny | anyone tried alopex? |
| 17:57.48 | ecc3g | got an Asus Zenfone2 (4GB RAM, 64GB eMMC, 2.3GHz..., alas completely soured by android... can't use it.) |
| 17:58.12 | KotCzarny | acc3g: write your own apps? |
| 17:58.16 | ecc3g | so sad... |
| 17:58.17 | KotCzarny | it's not that hard |
| 17:58.20 | ecc3g | need to replace the whole OS |
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| 18:01.33 | ecc3g | I do wonder how hard it is to replace the whole OS... powervr is a problem, but dunno about the baseband processor |
| 18:01.49 | KotCzarny | ecc3g, with closed pieces, hard |
| 18:02.26 | ecc3g | well... that's the question, I dont know how closed the baseband is. powervr is definitely a problem |
| 18:02.42 | ecc3g | but the kernel module is floating around |
| 18:03.08 | Sicelo | bootloader hackable or open? |
| 18:03.22 | ecc3g | someone apparently hacked it already |
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| 18:03.40 | ecc3g | no idea for sure. pretty sure it's some UEFI though. |
| 18:05.19 | Sicelo | ah .. if you're able to boot something else, then the device starts to look very attractive ;) |
| 18:05.38 | Sicelo | i had wished somebody would do that with Nokia's N1 tablet |
| 18:05.44 | ecc3g | yes it's good hardware, just bad sofware :( |
| 18:06.39 | ecc3g | (someone ran windows7 on the phone, but it wasn't clear how it was running. looked like VM on the phone which isn't as interesting) |
| 18:07.28 | Sicelo | yes .. i see someone with Ubuntu chroot on XDA as well |
| 18:07.32 | ecc3g | if i could run gentoo on this phone and still have 4g and "phone" capability, that would be great. |
| 18:07.50 | Sicelo | N900 .. N900 ... N900 |
| 18:07.53 | Sicelo | haha |
| 18:08.25 | ecc3g | yeah |
| 18:08.38 | KotCzarny | hmm, midori supports html5+css3 |
| 18:08.40 | ecc3g | it's still my preferred phone because of software |
| 18:17.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((<Sicelo> of course it has 4x ram. 2x faster processor too)) just like Neo900 ;-D |
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| 18:20.51 | Vajb | yo im back \o |
| 18:21.08 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 18:22.04 | Vajb | got few new problems with phone |
| 18:23.19 | Vajb | now when i took more pictures than usually i noticed that after few pics camera just freezes when it should show taken picture and i have to kill it manually and picture is of course lost |
| 18:23.49 | Vajb | is there way to get some debug stuff or this is known problem? |
| 18:24.24 | KotCzarny | dmesg? |
| 18:24.37 | Vajb | it is easy to reproduce. Just take less than ten pictures and it freezes |
| 18:24.52 | KotCzarny | monitor free space? |
| 18:24.53 | Vajb | umm just to run dmesg when it hangs? |
| 18:25.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | I think it's sort of seen-before problem nobody really was able to tackle so far |
| 18:25.21 | Vajb | 3,36gb |
| 18:25.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | possibly related to some closed blob driver |
| 18:25.27 | KotCzarny | another trick would be running camera app from terminal |
| 18:25.41 | Vajb | i have camera-ui2 i think |
| 18:25.53 | KotCzarny | uninstall and try stock? |
| 18:26.25 | Vajb | just one time i had to do killall camera-ui to get it back working |
| 18:26.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, some assume nicocam would be the culprit, however freemangordon had a very sound argument why it couldn't be related |
| 18:27.17 | Vajb | when i just ran camera-ui from terminal it didn't take picture. Camera ran, but just didn't shoot |
| 18:28.24 | Vajb | hmm maybe i try stock. Been thinking of reflash since i read about doc's never ever do apt upgrade on device... |
| 18:28.40 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 18:28.53 | Vajb | thinking that there might lay some problem |
| 18:29.39 | Vajb | because camera-ui2 is now part of cssu, right? So it should be stable as table |
| 18:30.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | camera-ui2 became part of CSSU-T before I was able to argue against it |
| 18:30.25 | Vajb | tho i like new camera-ui more than stock |
| 18:30.41 | Vajb | i see |
| 18:31.48 | Vajb | damn, just realised that i have my other phone laying around useless. Will try if i can reproduce it there |
| 18:31.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | in fact it's not thoroughtly tested (at least in my book) and for sure not needed to fix any bug or implement a *needed* feature. So it's basically just forcefeeding to user a app *somebody* considers the better choice between equivalent alternatives. And that's not what CSSU is supposed to do, rather the contrary |
| 18:32.43 | Vajb | well i don't see any problem with new features :) |
| 18:32.56 | Vajb | unless they don't bring any problems that is |
| 18:33.08 | DocScrutinizer05 | I see problems with QA and maintenance of new apps |
| 18:33.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | and I the heck don't want to get forcefed with new apps when I rather prefer keeping the old stock version |
| 18:34.26 | Vajb | that reminded me of other thing. Last week there was some guy promising to ask for sources. How did it go or no info yet? |
| 18:34.26 | DocScrutinizer05 | camera-ui2 *clearly* is _optional_ and *not* _mandatory_ |
| 18:35.05 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not really wondering what been the result of this effort |
| 18:35.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-) |
| 18:35.09 | Vajb | yes, you have valid point there |
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| 18:35.33 | Vajb | so better would be to give it as option if one wants |
| 18:35.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, exactly |
| 18:36.13 | Vajb | like is case with open media player. As far as i know |
| 18:36.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | or with firefox instead of ms crap in windows as default browser |
| 18:36.59 | Vajb | oh yeah and one other thing. Yappari crashes from time to time |
| 18:37.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | you have an option "make firefox default" |
| 18:37.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | why not an option "make camera-ui2 default" ? |
| 18:37.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | there is ZILCH reason to forcefeed it to CSSU users |
| 18:38.19 | KotCzarny | features? |
| 18:38.27 | Vajb | im not sure how to reproduce it, but i _feel_ like it happens when i close yapparis window when it's in minimized mode (swithing between apps) |
| 18:38.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | and please don't tell me you don't know how to implement that, dear maintainers ;-) |
| 18:39.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | actually swapping default camera is baby simple |
| 18:39.39 | Vajb | but it puts users in awkward position. They have think wether they need it or not ;-) |
| 18:40.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | which is what whole maemo is all about |
| 18:40.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | just Nokia fscked it up |
| 18:40.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~cherry |
| 18:40.52 | infobot | [cherry] http://wiki.maemo.org/PR1.2_compulsory_My_Nokia_subscription |
| 18:41.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | this mindset... :-.( |
| 18:41.44 | Vajb | ah i thing cherry was first thing i purged after flash |
| 18:41.49 | Vajb | think* |
| 18:42.31 | DocScrutinizer05 | and that you actually _could_ purge it is courtesy maemo general design principles |
| 18:42.57 | DocScrutinizer05 | on Android you need cyanogen mod to purge such stuff |
| 18:43.03 | KotCzarny | with updated meta package, yes |
| 18:43.45 | Vajb | i would love to purge some stuff from my gf's xcover2, but can't be arsed |
| 18:43.59 | KotCzarny | vajb, with root on droid you can |
| 18:44.10 | KotCzarny | simply removing apks from /sys/app etc |
| 18:44.18 | KotCzarny | or whatever was the path |
| 18:44.27 | Vajb | it's limited to 1gb filesystem wether you have sd card or not |
| 18:44.38 | KotCzarny | symlinks |
| 18:44.39 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 18:45.09 | Vajb | im sure it's not that hard, but like i said "can't be arsed" :-) |
| 18:45.41 | Vajb | she didn't cope with maemo so let her suffer mwahahah |
| 18:46.30 | DocScrutinizer05 | my gf urgently wants a Neo900 - quite amazing. I guess I have to hand her a N900 first ;-) |
| 18:47.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | then otoh she's already lost on standard Luser usage patterns on android phone. So... hmmm |
| 18:48.27 | Vajb | yeah that's how it goes... |
| 18:49.30 | Vajb | heh, guess im hooked. Because while on vacation i looked all stores which sold used phones, but couldn't find any n900 |
| 18:50.10 | Vajb | saw one jolla, but was too expensive for used phone imo |
| 18:50.18 | DocScrutinizer05 | maybe you want to order one from Neo900 UG? |
| 18:50.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | nah, nevermind |
| 18:50.47 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm not going to engage in selling N900s |
| 18:50.52 | KotCzarny | :> |
| 18:50.58 | KotCzarny | i would like one or more n900s |
| 18:51.27 | DocScrutinizer05 | I know I could sell a few. But the overhead doesn't make up for the margin I could make on them |
| 18:51.46 | Vajb | what is eta for neo900? |
| 18:52.01 | DocScrutinizer05 | they cost me >100EUR plus taxes plus handling plus shipping etc |
| 18:52.16 | DocScrutinizer05 | Vajb: so far 1st quarter of 2016 |
| 18:52.25 | Vajb | oh |
| 18:53.00 | DocScrutinizer05 | ((cost me)) for pretty much mint condition, but anyway |
| 18:53.04 | Vajb | so it's finally happening |
| 18:53.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, did you think it's vaporware? ;-D |
| 18:53.56 | Vajb | not familiar with the term, but i thought it'll take few years still |
| 18:54.08 | *** join/#maemo ced117 (~ced117@opensuse/member/ced117) |
| 18:54.09 | DocScrutinizer05 | times getting tougher, demand for a device built with owner's security and privacy in mind is higher than ever before |
| 18:55.06 | Vajb | speaking of security. Does someone do online banking on n900? |
| 18:56.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | I occasionally did, indeed |
| 18:56.14 | kerio | Vajb: ayy lmao |
| 18:56.15 | KotCzarny | um |
| 18:56.23 | KotCzarny | online banking requires working js/java |
| 18:56.25 | kerio | you have to harden microb a little |
| 18:56.27 | KotCzarny | often |
| 18:56.32 | DocScrutinizer05 | but really only when in a pinch |
| 18:56.35 | kerio | javascript and java are WILDLY different |
| 18:56.46 | *** join/#maemo disco_stu_droid (~wrt54gl@190.211.82.70) |
| 18:56.52 | KotCzarny | kerio: they usually need both |
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| 18:56.57 | kerio | KotCzarny: no they don't |
| 18:57.06 | kerio | because the iphone exists |
| 18:57.13 | Vajb | yeah my bank uses jave and i haven't got courage to even try it |
| 18:57.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | KotCzarny: my bank doesn't need any weird js crap for online banking |
| 18:57.21 | KotCzarny | personal banking usually doesnt require java signing applets |
| 18:57.24 | Vajb | java* |
| 18:57.32 | KotCzarny | but js is almost a must |
| 18:58.00 | kerio | microb is getting a bit outdated in that regard, yeah |
| 18:58.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's based on https, PIN, and iTANs |
| 18:58.07 | kerio | fennec 17 is recent enough |
| 18:58.15 | KotCzarny | he he |
| 18:58.39 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: you're forgetting the most important factor |
| 18:58.40 | kerio | insurance |
| 18:58.41 | DocScrutinizer05 | I could do online banking with... wget |
| 18:59.06 | Vajb | microb hang when i tried to view local news site with it... |
| 18:59.13 | *** join/#maemo Axel_H (~Durand@ghs/durand) |
| 18:59.26 | kerio | it's a damn shame that they dropped support for the maemo ui in more recent firefoxen :( |
| 18:59.29 | KotCzarny | as for security, apart from broken certs, n900 is quite safe (because its obscurity) |
| 18:59.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | sure, those are so terribly JS infested, even my PC browser throws up on them |
| 18:59.50 | kerio | KotCzarny: the fuck it is |
| 18:59.57 | kerio | poodle and logjam |
| 19:00.03 | kerio | disabling ssl3 helps |
| 19:00.09 | kerio | and also disabling the most problematic ciphers |
| 19:01.39 | Vajb | yet another "bug" in opera also |
| 19:02.01 | Vajb | when wifi requires authentication it crashes |
| 19:02.31 | Vajb | so i had to authenticate with microb first and then i could browse with opera |
| 19:02.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: to spoof some transaction, they would need a MITM attack on N900, or design a highly customized trojan that actually works in maemo / microB to fake the website content |
| 19:03.04 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: are you willing to say that our ancient NSS doesn't have any security issues? |
| 19:03.20 | kerio | let alone the rest of the browser |
| 19:03.29 | kerio | for crying out loud, it doesn't even *warn* you of mixed active content |
| 19:03.37 | DocScrutinizer05 | I'm using konqueror becuase of that on my PC and I guess they won't bother to write a trojan for that one. On N900 I'm probably even more safe |
| 19:04.03 | kerio | they won't write a trojan for your browser |
| 19:04.14 | kerio | they'll write a fairly generic xss exploit for /your bank/ |
| 19:04.16 | KotCzarny | usually weakest link is luser clicking on unsafe links |
| 19:04.34 | DocScrutinizer05 | kerio: and how would they trick me into loading it? |
| 19:04.37 | KotCzarny | and yes, xss is a thing |
| 19:04.55 | kerio | they'll serve it from some compromised website |
| 19:04.59 | kerio | usually as an ad |
| 19:05.15 | DocScrutinizer05 | only when I do web browsing |
| 19:05.20 | DocScrutinizer05 | I don'zt |
| 19:05.28 | KotCzarny | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-site_scripting |
| 19:05.39 | kerio | cool, microb is the safest web browser ever |
| 19:06.14 | DocScrutinizer05 | look, when I want to do online banking, I open up microB, go straight to my online banking URL, do my thing, and then I close browser again |
| 19:06.41 | *** join/#maemo n1ghtfury (~n1ghtfury@123.201.65.5) |
| 19:06.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | (btw I do same on my PC. Just there I might have other instances of webbrowser running concurrently - not so on N900) |
| 19:08.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's very basic precaustion measures when doing sensitive stuff: don't open multiple concurrent web pages. Use a freshly opened browser instance. Go *directly* to the https: URL you want to go to |
| 19:08.43 | totalizator | I can't stop thinking - what about Jolla? any discount codes working right now? |
| 19:09.24 | totalizator | what would be the lowest price I could get it for? |
| 19:10.57 | *** join/#maemo n1ghtfury_ (~n1ghtfury@123.201.65.5) |
| 19:11.11 | DocScrutinizer05 | I dunno if those precautions are sufficient to defeat the usual non-persistent (aka trojan) attacks. But the help a lot anyway |
| 19:12.22 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/non-// |
| 19:12.32 | *** join/#maemo Vajb (~Vajb@85-76-170-130-nat.elisa-mobile.fi) |
| 19:12.36 | DocScrutinizer05 | err nevermind |
| 19:13.07 | DocScrutinizer05 | s/trojan/non-trojan/ was what I meant |
| 19:13.09 | Vajb | meh my reliable gprs... |
| 19:14.38 | DocScrutinizer05 | for trojans I hope for maemo /microB being a too marginal ancient arcane target |
| 19:14.49 | KotCzarny | as i said, security by obscurity |
| 19:14.51 | KotCzarny | :) |
| 19:14.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | exactly |
| 19:15.11 | *** join/#maemo LauRoman|Alt (~LauRoman@5-14-85-40.residential.rdsnet.ro) |
| 19:16.23 | DocScrutinizer05 | nevertheless you probably shouldn't do online banking from your mobile device on a regular basis, unless it's specially hardened |
| 19:16.37 | KotCzarny | or use token card |
| 19:16.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | yep |
| 19:17.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | and even then, it depends on type of card |
| 19:17.08 | KotCzarny | scratch type |
| 19:17.19 | KotCzarny | scratch'n'sniff |
| 19:18.36 | sixwheeledbeast | Vajb: you tried qml-browser? |
| 19:18.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | the type where you either input (via sort of kbd) the amount and destination account number, or it reads that stuff from display and shows it to you on a display so you can compare, is considered secure |
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| 19:19.41 | Vajb | i think i tried, but can't remember why i didn't like it |
| 19:19.44 | DocScrutinizer05 | reads it from phone/PC moni display |
| 19:20.19 | Vajb | reading through xss wiki... interesting stuff |
| 19:22.10 | KotCzarny | doc: or when you enter account nr then on the next page it's displayed and asks for token |
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| 19:30.47 | totalizator | so, no Jolla discount codes right now? meh |
| 19:32.17 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cross-site_scripting#Exploit_examples is the typical XSS attack vector which with my online banking would only work if my bank was stupid enough to add such vulnerability to their site, or *I* was so stupid to proceed to my online banking site from another website which injected the trojan into mircoB |
| 19:33.52 | DocScrutinizer05 | or, even worse: I'd receive a mail on my N900 (which I generally quit to do at all) with a fake email claiming it's from my bank and advising me to click the URL below to proceed to my online banking |
| 19:34.13 | KotCzarny | as i said, luser is the weakest link |
| 19:34.21 | DocScrutinizer05 | :nod: |
| 19:34.51 | KotCzarny | (which also means running vulnerable os (windoze, he he)) |
| 19:37.25 | DocScrutinizer05 | simple effective rules: #- *always* use a freshly opened browser instance to go to your online banking (NO Google startpage!!!) #- *diectly* enter the HTTPS-URL of your online banking (or rely on your known-good bookmarks, but *check them* nevertheless) #- do *NEVER* open a new tab in parallel to your online banking |
| 19:38.36 | KotCzarny | or just use operation authentication method which is independent of internet |
| 19:38.55 | DocScrutinizer05 | that's orthogonal |
| 19:39.12 | KotCzarny | safe enough usually |
| 19:40.03 | DocScrutinizer05 | it's another way to block worst doom, however you might disclose details you better shouldn't disclose if you don't follow the very simple 3 points above |
| 19:41.09 | Vajb | so even google startpage is bad? |
| 19:41.15 | KotCzarny | dns hacks |
| 19:41.19 | DocScrutinizer05 | even when an attacker exploiting XSS couldn't instantly fake a transaction when you use such auth card, they still can read all private details you see when you access your online banking |
| 19:41.29 | DocScrutinizer05 | Vajb: definitely |
| 19:41.29 | Vajb | so one should use empty startpage? |
| 19:41.33 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes |
| 19:41.38 | KotCzarny | use local html page if you must |
| 19:41.57 | Vajb | i see |
| 19:42.46 | KotCzarny | quick tip: in firefox entering: g something |
| 19:42.52 | KotCzarny | googles for something |
| 19:43.00 | KotCzarny | (or whatever search engine you have selected) |
| 19:43.02 | DocScrutinizer05 | KotCzarny: later on same attacker could use that info to do some phone banking for example |
| 19:43.23 | KotCzarny | my phone banking uses the same scratch card tokens |
| 19:43.28 | Vajb | yes i know |
| 19:44.31 | KotCzarny | building cmake 2.8.12 in scratchbox, so far so good, weird no one compiled it earlier |
| 19:44.38 | KotCzarny | 2.6 from extras-devel is old |
| 19:44.48 | KotCzarny | most stuff requires 2.8.something |
| 19:45.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | KotCzarny: whatever, suggesting to forget about reasonable precaution measures since you hope your scratch card is safe enough is quite silly |
| 19:45.35 | KotCzarny | doc, i'm not suggesting that, just saying it's quite nice ADDITIONAL security |
| 19:45.45 | DocScrutinizer05 | yes, that's true |
| 19:45.49 | KotCzarny | two-channel auth |
| 19:46.42 | DocScrutinizer05 | unlike silly paypal, all decent German banks use some form of TAN to secure transactions |
| 19:47.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | which is similar to your scratchcard I guess |
| 19:49.06 | DocScrutinizer05 | https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transaction_authentication_number#Indexed_TAN_.28iTAN.29 |
| 19:49.33 | *** join/#maemo protem (~protem@unaffiliated/protem) |
| 19:49.43 | DocScrutinizer05 | note that "Mobile TAN (mTAN)" is a *very* bad idea on smartphones |
| 19:49.49 | KotCzarny | he he |
| 19:49.54 | KotCzarny | two channel |
| 19:49.59 | DocScrutinizer05 | same channel |
| 19:50.04 | DocScrutinizer05 | ;-P |
| 19:50.04 | KotCzarny | yeah |
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| 20:58.10 | kerio | DocScrutinizer05: http://webpolicy.org/2015/08/25/att-hotspots-now-with-advertising-injection/ |
| 20:58.35 | kerio | you're protected if you're connecting directly to https, but still |
| 21:07.12 | DocScrutinizer05 | ~ping |
| 21:07.12 | infobot | 1 packet transmitted, 1 packet received, 0.0% packet loss |
| 21:07.23 | KotCzarny | ~pong |
| 21:07.23 | infobot | ping, or also https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_video_game |
| 21:07.28 | DocScrutinizer05 | ooh sorry, different server |
| 21:13.29 | KotCzarny | trying to compile sqlite3, fun |
| 21:14.03 | KotCzarny | [sbox-FREMANTLE_ARMEL: ~/src/browser/SQLite-c1d499af] > make 2>&1 |grep -i error|wc -l |
| 21:14.04 | KotCzarny | 10018 |
| 21:17.49 | Sicelo | what's missing in stock version? |
| 21:18.47 | *** join/#maemo LauRoman|Alt (~LauRoman@5-14-5-206.residential.rdsnet.ro) |
| 21:20.26 | KotCzarny | -- package 'sqlite3>=3.6.19' not found |
| 21:20.39 | KotCzarny | too low |
| 21:21.31 | KotCzarny | and in general trying to compile midori browser |
| 21:21.44 | kerio | Received lag check reply from wilhelm.freenode.net. Time elapsed: 0.04786 seconds. (Rating: Are you plugged into the server?) |
| 21:21.52 | kerio | aw yiss |
| 21:26.21 | *** join/#maemo norly (~norly@enpas.org) |
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| 21:33.10 | DocScrutinizer05 | I*am* the server ;-P |
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| 21:39.37 | kerio | the freenode server is actually 0.5ms away from my bouncre |
| 21:39.39 | kerio | *bouncer |
| 21:42.35 | DocScrutinizer05 | oh, your bouncer has a ping? |
| 21:58.49 | kerio | barely |
| 21:59.00 | kerio | half a millisecond to freenode :3 |
| 21:59.16 | kerio | it's like in the building across |
| 21:59.36 | kerio | hold on aren't you on hetzner as well |
| 21:59.41 | KotCzarny | unless you are playing some irc game, does it matter? |
| 22:00.04 | kerio | KotCzarny: people like you are the reason we're not going to the moon anymore |
| 22:00.05 | kerio | :v |
| 22:00.49 | KotCzarny | and people like you are the reason internet is infested with trolls |
| 22:08.04 | *** join/#maemo strohalm (~smoofi@unaffiliated/strohi) |
| 22:09.51 | sixwheeledbeast | :D |
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| 22:21.35 | KotCzarny | WebKit-SVN-source.tar.bz2 |
| 22:21.37 | KotCzarny | Length: 1681553316 (1.6G) [application/x-bzip2] |
| 22:21.40 | KotCzarny | o.O |
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| 22:42.10 | KotCzarny | i must say even older midori (0.2.1) works nicely |
| 22:52.27 | KotCzarny | but loading bigger pages reaults in swapthrashing, eh |
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